Need for new court building in Cardiff overwhelming, top judge says

England and Wales' most senior judge has said there is an "overwhelming" need to replace a major court building in Cardiff.

The Lady Chief Justice, Baroness Carr, told a Senedd committee that nothing had changed from seven years ago when a commission said the Civil and Family Justice Centre was "unfit for purpose".

The building hears civil and family cases, as well as specialist business and property courts - two judges called it a "disgrace" back in 2019.

The UK government was asked to comment.

It was the first time a chief justice has given evidence to a committee in the Welsh Parliament.

Baroness Carr spoke a week after a public spat between Cardiff Bay and Westminster over whether Welsh justice and policing should be controlled in Wales.

The chief justice, who is the first woman to serve as head of the judiciary in England and Wales, avoided getting drawn into the argument, telling the committee she could not "get into devolution".

Lord Thomas' commission on justice in Wales in 2019 said the current position in Cardiff compared to other UK capital cities was "untenable".

"Court and tribunal facilities need to be fit for purpose. We have visited the Civil Justice Centre in Cardiff. It is unfit for purpose," Lord Thomas, himself a former chief justice, wrote.

Judges who gave evidence to the commission in 2019 that there were no private consultation rooms and that it did not have enough space for the number of court rooms required.

One judge, Lord Justice Birss, said: "The quality of the building from the outside is a disgrace. I'm quite happy to call it a disgrace in that context."

Another, Mr Justice Picken, agreed: "Wales is not just a region, it is a country, it should be having the business and work of Wales dealt with in Wales. It should be better."

The Law Society Gazette reported last year that the Ministry of Justice had spent around £420,000 on repairs at the building over three years.

Speaking at the Senedd's legislation committee, Baroness Carr said: "A modern reliable court estate is foundational to access to justice. There is, I believe, an overwhelming operational case for a new civil justice centre in Cardiff.

"A fit-for-purpose building bringing together civil, family, public, law and tribunal work."

Quoting Lord Thomas as saying the situation in Cardiff was untenable, Baroness Carr added: "That was 2019, this is 2026. Things have not changed."

She said the judiciary "stands ready to play its part" and said the Welsh counsel general Julie James had "been fantastic" in helping identify potential sites for a new centre.

Alun Davies, the Blaenau Gwent Labour Member of the Senedd, said: "The fact that, seven years later, we're in the same position demonstrates that the systems we have don't work, or that Wales is an afterthought.

"It's a real failure, however we want to describe it".

Baroness Carr said the it was "obviously" about money.

"It is about having the money to invest in a proper fit-for-purpose estate, and I suspect it has also been a question of will across the board."

She called for "creative thinking about investment between the governments" and said there was "fresh energy" around the issue.

"I couldn't agree more with you that it was long overdue," she said, adding it wouldn't be for her to say it was a failure.

Baroness Carr said backlogs in court cases across England and Wales were at an "all-time high", but Wales was a "strong performer".

She said the average waiting time in Wales to the first hearing was 15.9 weeks, versus 24.2 weeks for England and Wales as a whole.