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| | Friday, 6 December, 2002, 12:04 GMT Are provinicial teams the way forward?  Welsh clubs are on a collision course with the WRU after chief executive David Moffett unveils plans for four new provincial teams. Is this the best way to develop the game in Wales? At a meeting with the Premier clubs on Thursday, Moffett proposed the creation of four new provincial sides under the control of the WRU. Moffett's plans would see four new provinces created for European and Celtic League competition by merging the likes of Llanelli, Swansea and Neath. Such a move means that the nine existing Premier clubs would have to squeeze into three provincial sides. Are you a fan of the plans? Or do you think clubs should merge? This debate is now closed. A selection of your e-mails appear below. It's about time the old sticklers got their heads out of the sand and start realising that it is time for a change. We desperately need to slim down the amount of top teams to enable the best players to play at a higher level week in week out. This will give them a better stepping stone for international games. It doesn't matter if we opt for provincial teams or a reduced amount of top tier teams just so long as something is done and the sooner the better. If this means putting a few people's noses out of place, so be it. If people are not interested in supporting the new set-up then they are not REAL supporters of Welsh rugby. With better games to be watched I'm sure we'll get more people coming through the gates and will encourage new people to come along. I have been a club supporter for over 45 years. I do believe we need change, but provincial rugby is not the answer. Tradition, passion and the contribution of such clubs as Llanelli, Cardiff, Swansea and Newport for over 100 years should not be underestimated.
Provinces have no tradition in Wales, club supporters like me will not go to watch them, in fact I will give up watching ruby altogether if this comes about. The answer is to strengthen and fund a reduced number of teams based on clubs with their support base. Cardiff and Llanelli should stand alone, Bridgend have expressed a desire to merge with Neath, Ponty could form a valleys team with Ebbw, and Caephilly, perhaps Newport and Swansea could also stand alone? Is six teams too many - I don't think so. Wales don't need to have provincial teams they just need to have less top clubs. There should be a top six in Wales which compete against each other, in the Celtic League and the Euro Cup. I'm from Limerick and would have little interest in supporting a team based in Cork. We have a history of Provincial teams that may not work in Wales. In Ireland the national team comes first e.g. both Munster & Leinster losing half their panel for Celtic League matches when Ireland plays. I get the feeling that Welsh clubs wield too much power. Irish rugby has flourished under the provincial system and there is no reason to think Welsh rugby won't do the same. I recall watching in a state of shock as Wales lost to New Zealand 49-6 at the tail end of the eighties (I lived in NZ back then) and thinking that it would take twenty years for Welsh rugby to recover.
Back in the Sixties and Seventies Wales were happy enough so long as they kept beating England and ignored the real challenge that was coming from the Southern Hemisphere. Wales should ignore England and be looking at how the game is organised Down Under. England has 50 million people to find its rugby players from. New Zealand manages to compete on equal terms with just 3.5 million and is a better role model for Wales to follow. Provincial sides for European and Celtic competitions and club games for a Welsh League and Principality Cup. This way the traditionalists will still be able to watch club rugby and Welsh sides can hopefully put up a better show in Europe and the Celtic Competition. One other point would be that only players eligible for Wales should be allowed into the Provinces. As an exiled Welshman, still passionate about Welsh rugby, I have to state that the results of the national team are the most important factor in the growth of the game in Wales. The national team is the "shop window" which attracts young boys to play the game for our future. The only hope for Welsh rugby is central contracted professionals, playing against top sides as often as possible in a regional set-up. Existing clubs can still play as amateurs with the ambition to play pro. This would offer incentives for those athletes to train, learn and raise their game to achieve the goal of a place in the national squad and team. The lunatics in charge of the asylum have proposed another insane change. Surely the answer should be get professional business involved and get rid of the amateurs who are making the present mess. Being ex-players does not make good administrators or generate the cash required for the modern rugby world. Anything less than what Moffet has proposed will not be good enough. The South Sydney Rabitohs have been used as an example of how a traditional club can survive mergers of other traditional teams. What the reports don't mention is that the Rabotohs finished one from bottom of the league this year and had some of the lowest attendances of the ARL. This is exactly where Welsh club rugby is at the moment on the European stage. If the clubs what tradition and history, how about supporting an initiative which could take us back to the days when the national Welsh rugby team was one of the best in the world!
David Tapp's version of the events relating to South Sydney is a little skewed to put it mildly. Sure, they've been successful, but for a solid couple of decades, before they were dropped from the NRL, they would have been hard pressed beating most Sydney high school teams. And where were all the Souths supporters then? The NRL had to reorganise or else come to terms with becoming a second tier winter sport due of the increasing popularity of Aussie Rules in Sydney and particularly Brisbane. I'd say that David Tapp should have a look at how the blinkered, petty self interest displayed by Australian Soccer clubs bankrupted Australia's National Soccer League kneecapping our national side's ability to qualify for the soccer World Cup. And nobody wants to see that sort of thing happen to Welsh rugby. The plan for provincial sides must go ahead. It is the only way that the tribalism of clubs can be overcome while still ensuring that those clubs exist. The exploits of our great national teams are but tales to be told. History must be put back in the cupboard. Wales must move on. Moffat has done us proud. Rugby provincialism has no history in Wales: it will work against the cultural geography of the nation. Any new system should attempt to build on and use existing rivalries, affiliations and infrastructure. The very fabric of our game is based around clubs and that is where efforts should be concentrated. Frankly, I would not trust the union with the task of creating new brands and marketing them effectively. These plans are the way forward for Welsh rugby as a whole. The new structure will breathe a breath of fresh air into a club game that has been stagnant for far too long. I believe the self-interest of the premier clubs must be put aside to allow the development of a national team that can compete on a world stage. Ray Gravell points out quite rightly that Llanelli got to the semi-finals of the European cup last year, but Cardiff apart in the inaugural final in 1996, no other Welsh club has contested the final. This is a sad indication of the strength of our club structure.
In recent years we have beaten the best clubs that England has to offer, but seldom have we been competitive for the duration of the season, required to succeed at the very highest levels in Europe. I cannot agree with the Provinces playing in one designated home ground, the gospel of Welsh rugby has to be spread with home fixture being distributed throughout the Province. I can understand this viewpoint though; it will result in the development of better stadia and facilities for our teams and supporters alike. As a player, and a Welsh rugby fan, like people up and down our great Nation, I was disappointed with the New Zealand result. What disappoints me the most is the fact that people were happy that we are making progress; we gave them a game for 75 minutes. We must change. I want to expect Wales to beat New Zealand, expect Wales to go to fortress Twickenham and dominate the game and return to Wales with a result. Ultimately, I want to expect Wales to be crowned World Champions. Am I on my own in aspiring to this goal, this belief? I doubt it. We must change and drive ourselves forward. It will be painful, it will not come easily, but we must start. This is our chance. All we have to do is look at Ireland, and then all questions are answered. In the Nineties Wales and Ireland competed for the Wooden Spoon every year. Now ten years on and Ireland are serious contenders for the Six Nations and the World Cup, whereas Wales are now competing with Italy for the Wooden Spoon.
It is time the WRU put its foot down and got their �200,000 worth. Provincial sides are the way forward. I think it is time people think of Welsh rugby as a whole and to forget petty squabbling between pitiful school-rate club sides. All you need to do is look at the performance of Glasgow, Edinburgh, and Borders team from Scotland and decide if that is the standard sought. Welsh rugby may be on a downturn purely because not enough people are out there playing. Too many clubs mean better coaching, etc. It does, however, mean less people have the chance to play at a higher quality. The formation of provincial clubs will probably become the final solution for Welsh rugby, and I use those words carefully. Yes, the clubs cannot resolve their problems because of tribal loyalties. But, the only answer to avoid supporter disenchantment is to form five 'Super Clubs' - Llanelli, Cardiff, Swansea, Newport and Pontypridd. Some people will be able to support these teams. Few will follow provinces that have no historical or political cultural basis. How can the likes of Llanelli, Swansea and Neath be pooled into one group, when Newport and Ebbw Vale are in another? It's like grouping Arsenal, Chelsea and Spurs against Charlton and West Ham. - inconceivable! The Provincial system has worked well for Ireland because people can relate to the provinces there as they have been in existence for over 100 years. Not so with Wales - It has to be Super Clubs, this is what the fans in Wales relate to; as the Aussies do with the State sides. Welsh Rugby does need to change but not to a Provincial System. Something needs to be done to improve Welsh rugby, and the provincial system has vastly improved Irish rugby, so why not? Wales have to do this if we are to advance. Or fall even further behind the English.
David Moffet's plans for the future of Welsh rugby should be embraced by both the clubs and their supporters. I am a staunch Ponty fan and even though we are doing quite well at the moment, just having one or two clubs performing well each season is not enough to justify no change in the game. Although there will be a lot of objections to the proposed changes, in time we will all see the benefits of it and see both our 'provincial' teams and national team flourish. No - Wales is not like Australia where they have State Teams competing in the Super 12. This will destroy the clubs and the soul of Welsh Rugby. It cannot be allowed to happen. You only have to look at the number of Super 12 clubs in NZ, Aus and SA to realise that less clubs equals better clubs and better players. Look at how the Irish have blossomed since they overhauled their system. It's not only the Welsh who try and support too many clubs - the English do too. If this is the way to go then so be it. Instead of the clubs behaving like brats they should work together to save the pride. I understand the financial implications on some clubs but all this talk of tradition and identity is becoming repetitive. I wonder if they want to move forward at all?
These plans are all well in principle with the best players condensed into four teams, but who will watch them? I am a Llanelli supporter but I would not have any emotional ties to a team made up of the West Wales sides - I can't see me wasting my �10 to watch something I couldn't relate to! I think that the formation of four provincial sides would be a good idea - but not at the expense of the existing clubs. Surely the way forward would be to use the provincial sides as a springboard into European competitions as well as a stronger base for international selection? It would be immoral to deny both the fans and clubs of their 'home identity' completely. By maintaining a domestic Premiership and a European provincial framework, this would surely strengthen Welsh rugby, as well as maintain the ardent club support that does, and always has, existed. If you pay a guy �200,000 a year you have to listen to him. It's time club chairman moved over before we slip further behind the leading nations.
The time has come to think "Out of the box" to stop the steady decline in Welsh rugby over the past two decades. Some people will be disappointed and upset but a provincial system would benefit the long-term future of the national side and enable us to start catching up with the likes of France, Ireland and England. It won't make a difference just talking about it. If Welsh clubs do well in the Heineken Cup or Parker Pen Shield, then everyone will be talking about how good we are again, when clearly there's need for change. It's time to forget the past. We must be the only country which dwells on years gone by. We have been witnessing the effects for at least 10 years. By setting up provincial sides the clubs can remain as individual entities developing young players for the future with the incentive of making it onto the big stage via the provinces. | |
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Irish rugby has flourished under the provincial system
