Episode 5: If not this, then what?

Available for over a year

Former 'prison wife' Josie Bevan confronts the failings of the prison system. In this concluding episode, Josie returns to the attack at Fishmongers' Hall in November 2019, in which John Crilly, who previously served 13 years for manslaughter, was briefly hailed as a hero for tackling the terrorist with a fire extinguisher, while Dave Merritt shares more about what motivated his dead son Jack's work with prisoners. Josie also talks with Alex Chalk MP - Minister for Prisons, Probation and Youth Justice - about the balance of harm and healing on the scales of justice, historian Dr David Scott and Maureen Mansfield of Abolitionist Futures. Josie's previous podcast series Prison Bag - one family's unflinching confrontation with the prison system - is available on BBC Sounds. Produced by Rebecca Lloyd-Evans and Alan Hall A Falling Tree production for BBC Radio 4