Changes to PIP, Whale-watching

THIS TRANSCRIPT WAS TYPED FROM A RECORDING AND NOT COPIED FROM AN ORIGINAL SCRIPT. BECAUSE OF THE RISK OF MISHEARING AND THE DIFFICULTY IN SOME CASES OF IDENTIFYING INDIVIDUAL SPEAKERS, THE BBC CANNOT VOUCH FOR ITS COMPLETE ACCURACY.

IN TOUCH – Changes to PIP and Whale watching

TX: 06.02.2018 2040-2100

PRESENTER: PETER WHITE

PRODUCER: CHERYL GABRIEL

White

Good evening. Tonight, more controversy surrounding PIPs or Personal Independence Payments. We’ll be discovering what effect a recent court decision could have for some visually-impaired benefit claimants. And watching whales may not be a complete waste of time, even though you can’t see them.

Clip

I’ve always thought there are some experiences like mime, the Northern Lights and keeping tropical fish, that are largely wasted on someone who’s totally blind. I remember a good friend once teasing that for my next birthday he’d get me a ship in a bottle. And right now I’m afraid that whale watching will turn out equally meaningless.

White

So, not the rugby team but the mammals then – more from Mike Lambert later in the programme.

But first, more than 200,000 people could be in line to receive more disability benefit after the government announced it was going to review around 1.6 million cases to check eligibility for PIPs. That’s the benefit designed to compensate disabled people for the extra living costs of their disability. This follows a judgement that the way in which PIPs has been assessed up until now discriminates against people with mental health problems. But despite this apparently good news for a section of the disability community Richard Kramer, Chief executive of SENSE, which represents people with complex disabilities, including those who are both deaf and blind, feels that some visually-impaired claimants might not benefit from this review. It’s caused a good deal of misunderstanding and confusion and yesterday Richard Kramer told me why.

Kramer

People have said great, that means my whole claim is going to be reviewed, I’m going to have a reassessment and we’re saying – no, it only applies to that particular descriptor in relation to planning and going on journeys. And the government have said there’ll be no face to face assessments, they will do a reassessment but we don’t know when or how or fully what resources have been allocated and they’ll only relate to that particular aspect in terms of planning and following journeys.

White

Now of course the business of following journeys and planning journeys is something which is relevant to visually-impaired people and there are quite a lot of your clients who are themselves visually-impaired. What’s the absolute direct relevance to visually-impaired people of all this?

Kramer

Yeah, I mean it will be directly relevant. I mean first and foremost, it’s always important to take a more holistic view, so it’s not just about the practical support that you may need but to recognise that actually you may have support around your mental wellbeing. But I suppose if you’re someone with a sensor impairment and say you can’t follow the route of an unfamiliar journey without support, whether that’s from a person or from a dog or support or aid you currently would receive 10 points. Now if you say actually I have a mental health problem and that impacts on my ability to go out and I have a sensory impairment you could receive an enhanced rate, so it could make the difference between the standard rate or enhanced rate of PIP, in the main the difference of £36 a week, which is quite a significant sum for an individual. But it is on a case by case basis.

White

And could that mean therefore that people who find getting around stressful, as indeed quite a lot of visually-impaired people do, that that could be interpreted as an indication of stress and the stress may be caused by the blindness?

Kramer

Yes, it won’t be sufficient to say I have a sensory impairment and I also am anxious or worried. You need to show that anxiety or worry impacts on your ability to go out. It really is quite defined within that descriptor. The wider issue is, is that actually how are assessors going to re-evaluate. If they haven’t completed a very good assessment or they haven’t got very good evidence on your case file it may make it difficult for an assessor to conclude well actually we should have upped someone’s entitlement to PIP. The system is only as good as how it is applied and we know there are wider concerns about assessors’ knowledge and the accuracy of reports.

White

Can you be a bit more specific – I mean what are you concerns about the way the assessments are done and who actually does them?

Kramer

We’ve had news of more money being given to providers to carry out assessments at a time when there are so many appeals against the assessments’ decisions, I think we’ve reached 68% success rate in people taking appeals. And that’s because of the quality of assessments and because of the assessors’ lack of specialist knowledge. It’s not just about having the right facts but it’s also about interpreting those facts and understanding how someone’s sensory impairment can really impact on their daily life.

White

So specifically, which people with visual impairments might this directly affect and who maybe should be making indications – waves – noises – that they need to be re-assessed?

Kramer

Well first of all, they should wait for the DWP to come to them. I wouldn’t suggest today that people with sensory impairments should be phoning up the DWP. What should happen is the DWP should review their case notes, they should review the awards given and hopefully adjust those awards. But that will only happen is they wrote it up or reflected that conversation in their report. And because there was an inbuilt bias against those who are talking about mental health problems we can’t be guaranteed that the report actually reflected that conversation at that time. And we’ve had too many examples where reports don’t reflect conversations where – and it’s very sad that we still have this – this scenario where people have said well you can move around unaided in your house, so you can clearly go outside, just because somebody can get around their living room without the support of their guide dog doesn’t mean that they don’t need support outside the home. And those kind of things do make a difference and that’s why people are still very anxious about the assessment process, regardless of these changes.

White

One final point. The government has always made it clear that it was concerned about the cost of the benefits’ bill, do you think we’re seeing something of a change of heart in the decision not to appeal against this decision, despite there still being tight fiscal control?

Kramer

I would like to hope so, on so many fronts, it’s not just about disability benefits. On social care, wider issues, the focus is on older people. There’s little attention on disabled benefits and people’s rights. I mean the government did change their heart around this issue and that’s a good thing. We also have to remember that there was a high court judgement that found the changes brought in by the government to be unlawful. So, yes, this may be a more positive indication of a new dialogue with new disabled people but I think let’s just see what the future brings.

White

Richard Kramer of SENSE.

In their statement to us the Department for Work and Pensions quoted Sarah Newton, who’s Minister for Disabled People, as saying that following this judgement they’ll be identifying claimants who may be eligible for more support under PIP. She says, there’s no need for claimants to do anything and no one will require a reassessment or be asked to attend a meeting. Instead they will write to those who are entitled to more benefits.

But there was no comment on Richard Kramer’s reservations about how the original claims were assessed.

Now if you’re blind it’s not always easy to judge how much you’re going to get from a day out. How visual will it be? Will things be described to you or will you just sit there like a lemon while everyone else oohs and ahhs? Mike Lambert describes such a day which took a surprising turn.

Lambert

Before our boat can depart the captain’s running through a few health and safety details. Forecast says it’s going to be pretty rough out there today, he warns over the Tannoy, we’d recommend seasickness medication. And remember folks, if you do start feeling sick it’s always calmer at the back. We’re okay. My wife, my daughter and I had our tablets at breakfast. And right now, on my urging, we’re standing at the absolute bow of the boat because I’m determined to have a front row seat at this show, even if it proves totally pointless.

Two weeks ago, when I insisted on booking this trip, the idea of getting up close to a Pacific grey whale had seemed appealing. But now, leaning against the cold steel railing, I worry I’m leading my family on a fools’ errand. I’ve always thought there are some experiences, like mime, the Northern Lights and keeping tropical fish, that are largely wasted on someone who’s totally blind.

I remember a good friend once teasing that for my next birthday he’d get me a ship in a bottle. And right now I’m afraid that whale watching will turn out equally meaningless.

Exiting the harbour, the captain points out some colourful jelly fish and a group of California sea lions sheltering under a pier. My hearing’s pretty poor but with an effort I can just make out their honking above the racket of the wind and the boat’s engine. Half an hour later I’m starting to understand what’s meant by pretty rough, when the captain announces he’s just spotted the heart shaped plumes of vapour that are a sure sign of grey whales. Then there’s a flurry of excitement to my right. Far off at two o’clock my wife can just see the rounded backs of three whales, dark grey with white blotches, sparkling in the sunlight. There’s another ripple of excitement and I ask what’s that? My daughter explains that one of the three just flipped its enormous tail in the air before taking a dive.

Eventually we leave the three greys and head out into deeper water. Now, the captain’s interested in a patch of sea where there’s a lot of bird activity. He guesses they’re probably feeding on a shoal of krill and where there’s krill there could be humpback whales. The captain’s seen something. The boat’s turning. The engine’s flat out. We’re in pursuit. We’re taking a tremendous hammering, lurching side to side, as well as up and down. Spray’s coming over the rail and something – I hadn’t noticed till now – a horrible thudding sound every time the hull plunges back into the waves. I worry something’s wrong but next to me a little girl, maybe three or four, is screaming with delight and I try to control my fear.

And then, something extraordinary, an eruption of joy that starts with the gasps of a few observant individuals, then has everyone hooping and whooping hysterically. What’s happening, I ask my wife. But she’s too breathless with excitement to speak. Over the Tannoy the captain explains a 45’ humpback just breached – jumping clean out of the water, twisting in mid air and crashing back into the foam. “Did you hear it Dad?” my daughter asks. No, I admit. Although there is another sound still echoing in my mind – that blossoming of joy and unaffected astonishment I’ll never forget. A moment later the captain cuts the engine. One of the humpbacks has just swum under the boat and surfaced a few yards ahead of us, where it’s snorting out its spent breath. “Can you hear that?” my wife asks. Yes. And then I hear it again and a third time, even closer, almost under my feet. “There she blows,” someone shouts, as a veil of warm droplets descends over my face. I can smell and actually taste the salty sea weedy breath that seconds before had been in the creature’s lungs.

A humpback whale just sneezed in my face and you don’t get better or more intimate than that.

White

Mike Lambert. Almost taking us there.

Now a new approach to one of our most popular occasional series – Blindness for Beginners. Now it’s what it says on the tin, it’s aimed at people new to blindness or partial sight answering the questions that we often forget to ask on this programme because we perhaps think it’s too obvious. But for a programme coming up in about a month’s time we’d like you to put those questions to visually-impaired couple Mike and Chris McMillan. Maybe Mike and Chris, you’d just like to introduce yourselves to the audience a little bit.

Chris McMillan

I’m Chris and we’ve been married 41 years but we’ve known each other for about 44 years and I’m partially sighted.

Mike McMillan

I’m Mike and I’ve been retired about five years. I have some sight. And I used to work as a technician. And Chris has been very good to put up with me all that time.

White

Right. So just give us an idea, the two of you, of the kind of areas that you would be happy to answer questions on and perhaps which you understand the things that cause people difficulty.

Chris McMillan

Well we’d definitely go with life in the kitchen and bringing up a family.

Mike McMillan

Yes, I think that’s a fair one. I would like to add if anyone wants a little bit of information about starting work, job interview, whatever, I’m fairly confident from my first job to my last that I got away with it fairly well.

Chris McMillan

We’ve had experience of losing sight and regaining it with Mike, whereas mine’s been fairly static. So, we can appreciate the suddenness and we’ve adapted, I think, almost since we were able to, since technology and gizmos appeared.

White

I mean one of the things we used to talk about a lot on the programme, perhaps haven’t quite so much recently, maybe because of technology, is the whole issue of lighting and how you make decisions about how to light your house.

Chris McMillan

Yes, that’s one we definitely know a lot about.

Mike McMillan

Yes, being a miserly sort I’ve looked for efficient lighting as well, so I’ve tried quite a few different things over the years and we’re fairly pleased with what we use now.

White

One of the things that maybe will help concentrate people’s minds is that question – what would I really have liked to know in advance when I was losing my sight. Have you two got views on that – what you’ve had to find out the hard way?

Chris McMillan

I suppose much of it is the modern designs make it harder. So, we’ve been frustrated more with what came – because what we had when we first started out together was easy to see. Things like the hi-fi, the white goods, the cookers – all those sorts of things used to be really easy to use but now they’re nearly always black or small print and things but you didn’t know that when – in the 1970s because everything was just so easy. So, I think we’ve been taken by surprise as the world has moved on that what we didn’t know at the beginning we didn’t know we didn’t know.

White

And just one other very quick thing. I mean technology there’s so much about it now, Mike are you happy to take on questions about almost any aspect of technology for visually-impaired people?

Mike McMillan

Oh yes, I think so. I mean if we don’t know we’ll be honest and we’ll say we don’t know but quite happy to try.

White

Right, well if you say you don’t know we won’t put it on. Mike and Chris McMillan, thanks very much, we’ll look forward to the questions flooding in.

You can phone your questions for Chris and Mike to our actionline for 24 hours after tonight’s programme on 0800 044 044. You can email [email protected] or you can click onto contact us on our website.

Finally today, some sad news.

Music

The amazingly versatile musician Reg Webb died last week, he was 70. Reg was blind, he spent 50 years in the music business playing just about every kind of music you can imagine. He worked with artists like Linda Lewis, Nick Kershaw and Susie Quatro. He was a member of several bands and a frequent solo performer as well. Pianists, saxophonists, guitarists – if you handed Reg Webb a bucket and spade he’d have knocked a tune out of it.

Music

Well, I have to declare an interest here – Reg was a close schoolfriend of mine and the music brains behind the only pop group anyone would allow me to join. I’d like to end today by playing something of his which illustrates many of his skills – as a pianist, as a composer and a vocalist. Reg, thanks for all the music.

Music