The team that brought you the new Radio 4 web site

Haven't had time to fully investigate the new web site but appreciate the efforts. However, I'm looking at it using IE7 and quite a lot of the type hangs over the images, ie "Welcome to the Radio 4 website" and some of the text is hidden in Choice of the Day.

Sorry to be a wet blanket, but I didn't have any problems navigating the old site and I don't see any significant difference in the new site. Maybe it is because I don't use podcasts (and actually don't know what they are) since I listen to the radio on my pc.



My problem is that since I listen to R4 in Canada, I rely on the Listen Again feature and that has not been working well for weeks now. Maybe you've all been busy setting up the new site. It still seems to be taking as much as 10 hours to make the Listen Again available after a programme has aired. It would be nice if this could be fixed.

Yes, an attractive website! It's a pity, though, that one is invited to "take a tour explaining......", an invitation which can grammatically mean only something rather improbable, namely that the person invited does the explaining.

Yours,

Emlin1944

I almost fell off my chair when I realised the old Radio 4 site was gone.



Please, please bring back the feature of the old site that lists recommended "best" programmes for the last 4 or 5 days.



Or even better, bring back the old web site. It was neat, with no need to scroll down.



To finish on a brighter note: The BBC is still miles better than any other broadcaster I know.

A definite retrograde step for Radio 4. Let’s compare the archive:



Old page from Frontiers: https://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/science/frontiers_20081124.shtml



New page:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00fkyfq



Less information, no extended “Listen Again”



Please explain how this can possibly be construed as an improvement.

Love Jem Stone's collection of old screenshots!



Russ

I liked the old website, but the new one is fine.



Just one thing I'd like to see on it: on the 'home' page you used to be able to see what programmes would be next, but now all you can see is the one on air. Can you change this please? It was very convenient.



I don't like the big picture right in the middle either, it takes too much space and does not say much as you only have one thing on it, and as other people have said, you need to scroll down a lot more with this new site.



Otherwise, nice job!

Steve - this is in serious danger of getting out of hand. Comments on the new site are being made on *four* current blogs - this one, Mark Damazer's one, and two of Leigh Aspin's. Could I suggest that comments specific to the site redesign are requested to go to or are directed to a single place?



Russ

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

I see the link to the R4 messageboards has been relegated to the bowels of the front page. Perhaps Mr. Damazer would like to tell R4 listeners why the station has always been so hostile to both its message boards and MB contributors? Why does BBC radio fail to support its messageboards? Yet another nail in the coffin with the closure of the POV radio board. In anyone within the BBC interested in radio?

While i am being "reactivley moderated " - It occurs to me that only today there was a report from some one or other saying that the BBC spends colossal sums of money doing things it does not need to do , and attempting to compete with news and media it does not need to compete with.

I rest my case.



The report was on the Today programme and was presented by BBC apologist in chief and "media correspondant " Torin Douglas, so i had to fight to stop falling asleep while it was on. Mr Douglas's publicly funded job is to be so boring about the BBC on the BBc that nobody notices that he spends his entire time spouting propaganda for the BBC and calling the retrogressive tax which fund it the "licence fee" - a bit of Orwellian doublespeak which of course means blanket, unfair,mandatory tax on owning a television ( in order to pay for pointless "media corresspondants" and website revamps that are neither needed or wanted.

I like some things about the new site, including the new more coherent/consistent programmes pages - however their content seems less comprehensive than in the past.



I don't like the 'chunkiness' of the new look - you've got more space to play with because of the wider page, but you've just expanded things too large rather than including more content. Despite living with it for some time, I don't like the chunky look on the main BBC Homepage. The BBC News homepage has improved since its redesign and makes better use of its space now.



The chunky layout looks childish - I think you could reduce some things in size (particularly the content in the main feature box which feels far too big) - and fit more in, without compromising on important white space.



(btw... my screen res is 1280 by 1024, so not that low and my browser is rendering pages in 100% zoom).

I don't see this as an improvement at all.



I use a small format 'netbook' and there is just too much space taken up with large graphics and banners. For example, the "Schedule" tab displays down to the words "00:00–00:30 Midnight News" while the net line goes off the bottom of the screen.



If I've selected the 'More' option so that I can see what is coming on next then I don't get beyond the date before the schedule information vanishes off the screen.



Maybe the developers have been given large screen displays. Maybe they got carried away with filling things out with pretty pictures. Maybe BBC RADIO should be considering content ahead of graphical design.

The new website looks like it was put together with one of those free webite toolkits.



It is confusing poorly laid out and the text overlaps with other text.



Difficult to read and to use



A complete shambles

What a lot of moaning. Just what you would expect from Radio 4 listeners. It can't be that bad as no-one is marching on Broadcasting House. Yet.



Aside from the Chrome 2 issue already highlighted, one thing strikes me as interesting.



There are lots of faces on the homepage:



David Mitchell (twice)

Rhys Ifans

Stanley Baxter

Frank Gardner

Jacqueline Wilson

Punt and Dennis (twice)

Mark Steel

Mevlin Bragg

Paul Lewis

Andy Hamilton

"Tickets" face



Given that this is a station famous for having a Woman's Hour, it seems strange that only one of 13 faces are female.

Another oddity:



Click on "Old Harry's Game - Episode 6"



You get to a page titled







Google's spider is not going to like that!

GrahamRule: Can I draw your attention to https://www.bbc.co.uk/guidelines/newmedia/desed/visual_language.shtml that covers the "Barlesque" (after TV Go Home's Nathan Barley) BBC visual design standards used over all BBC sites?

#16: When leaving feedback about website layout, it is handy to say:



- what browser and version you are using

- the operating system you are using

- the page you are looking at (URLs are good here)



And, for example when you say "text overlaps with other text" you need to say which text it is, it is very hard for people to deal with genuine errors without more specific information.

@briantist, i think that's the old version of the barlesque guidelines. the new one is at



https://www.bbc.co.uk/guidelines/futuremedia/desed/visual_language.shtml

Oh! I am a young listener/user, and I don't like your new site! It's ugly for one thing, and much harder to browse on. What a pity to fix what wasn't broke (apart from listen again, which was well and truly b r o k e).



Incidentally, I much preferred 'listen again' to podcasts as on LA you'd get the tail end of the preceding program, the program selected and the start of the program that followed what was being LA'd. This meant I discovered and listened to many things I'd not planned to, which was great. Podcasts do not have this added benefit - they're a bit depressing in fact.



Returning to your new (UGLY!) site; if I want to see a list of all the afternoon plays this week, how do I do that??

#21 - true, but the unwashed don't have access to version 2.0

#22 - click "programmes" then "a" then "afternoon play" would you believe?



It takes you here - https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006qrzz

Even better, from a /programmes/ page you can add "/episodes/upcoming" onto the end to get upcoming episodes.



For example



https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006qrzz/episodes/upcoming



There are other tricks! Want an XML version of the page - just add ".xml" to the end of the URL



https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006qrzz/episodes/upcoming.xml

#23 i'm able to access the PDF inside the zip file on the new page and I'm as unwashed as they come.



I can't get the design assets though - I presume these are the master copies of the logo and such like - as they're password protected.

Your old site quick access to your best programmes in any field. We could look up any category (e.g. Science) and see ALL BBC offerings, including those on archive. Now we are offered a few programmes YOU think we should watch.



As to finding the hundreds of other excellent programmes on archive, we are left to fend for ourselves: to find out, for example, that 'Am I Normal' is science-based, rather than another Book at Bedtime.



I wonder how long you think it takes to go through the alphabetical index and dissect out science, current affairs etc?



Perhaps you could spare us a few hints, before abandoning us to the index? Better still, could we have the old website back?



Nicola Hayes-Allen (Washington DC)

Well there is a geat deal of space used up by colour pictures while the right hand side which holds the information and navigation stuff is cut off on my screen. The images at the foot of the page relating to Feedback, Radio 4 tickets and the newsletter are pointless clip art imo.



The page certainly has a more open and cleaner look but for all that it isn't any easier to find the information if what you are looking for are programme details. For instance if I click on In Our Time I have to search the page for a link to the programme page or search from the alphabetical listing I would prefer a link which takes me directly to the information page with one click - otherwise I might as well use the Radio Times website.



If I were a first time visitor to the BBC website today I would assume that the entire operation was geared purely to podcasts and iPlayer. Which is fine if this is the BBCs intention - but really it needs to be backed up by attention to reliability and timely delivery of podcasts and the listen again features.



[ps The last radio 3 re-design was marginally more successful than this one, imo, because it is less fussy.]

I really like to think that I'm not too old for change but.......



I don't see this as an improvement. It's almost as bad as the new BBC Weather pages where I still can't find the information I used to find on the old site.

I guess all BBC websites are being changed to this new look format when the old format was perfectly satisfactory.



I don't like how I have to scroll down now to find information which is now spread out all over the place.



Isn't it pretty standard on websites around the world to have a menu down the left hand side. The new site still seems to have the old menu items but now they are spread out all over the place.



WHY DID YOU CHANGE IT. By your own admission, it has taken a long time to develop this new site which means a LOT OF LICENCE PAYERS MONEY.



but the old site worked perfectly well so it's wasted money.



I'm just dreading the BBC News website changing now.



what a waste of time/money.

Thanks for your effort - the new web-site looks cleaner, more spacious - almost like YouTube. No, YouTube looks cluttered compared to this.



Sashura

Normandy, France

I used to have the Radio 4 website as my home page, but the new site does not have the news headlines on it, which is really disappointing and means I have switched to the main BBC news website. I am not sure why you took this away, but I think you should put it back!

Well it looks good, clean and fresh, if slightly dated, but trying to find the Archers 'listen again' is impossible. Why put an episode as the link to the website?

Indeed, I have found the web page chunky and less user friendly.



I'm glad you are still able to get to the old topic web pages eg Archers and Women's hour.



It is nice to see things changes.

I signed up just to leave this comment. Thank you for your efforts. The site is in first appearance more open and simple and a little bit more 'now' looking. I have to say though, that I really enjoy Radio 4 programming in the various countries I work in and the old website was like a comfort item that I could take with me and that I knew. Now things are not where they should be, I can't listen again simply, I can't just click on my fave programmes quickly. I appreciate the effort but not because it was an older site means it needed such drastic fixing and organising. Can we have back some of the functionality and ease of the old site please.

Why on earth is the 'jump to' feature now gone from the schedule page?

At the top of the page there usd to be links that let you jump down to afternoon or evening. Now you have to scroll scroll scroll.

This may seem like a small thing but for someone who uses a laptop computer (small screen) this feature was extremely useful.

So useful in fact, that I am astounded it has been discarded. Why??? Would it be easy to restore? Please?

It's all gone a bit commercial TV and lowbrow marketing for the masses.



For me, radio 4 is part of my day not something new I have to be sold. Using the web site should be like using my radio. The huge advert at the top of the page is completely pointless and just gets in the way of me choosing what I want to listen to or find out about. I'd rather go in, see "listen live". what I can listen to again and maybe a link to what's coming and that's it.



The little grey bar at the top is quite useful. Expanding it a bit and making it more obviously the controls for listening (and more continuous with the "On Radio 4 Now bar) would help.



On another note, it would be good if the "Now Playing" tab in the iPlayer included links to background information on the main Radio 4 site.



Finally, the change from rounded corners on the BBC site to pointy corners on Radio 4 is a bit of a clash.

The new homepage was quite a shock! It gives too much information in too many different fonts, and is too wide to fit the page. I was quite happy with the old one(Why mend it if it's not broken?)

It's awful, before it was one click to get to the archers page now god knows where it is or anything else for that matter.

I also had no problem with the other set up, apart from as another listener commented that the listen again feature has been a pain for a fair few weeks.

Think it is a bit big and imposing from first look sort of jumps at you rather than gently leading you.



Ciao

Isn't it about time you got this guy on R4 ??



https://www.adriantinniswood.co.uk/



He is very interesting, exciting and engaging, and his new book will highlight the difference between 'freelance' and 'state-sponsored' piracy in a which is historical, but also bizarrely current.



Just a thought,



BG

#38 - by any chance have you come across the "Bookmark" or "Favourites" in your browser if you find pressing "Programmes" then "A" then "Archers" too much for you?

I've always found the BBC4 website easy to navigate, and very easy to find what I with a single click.



But I find that the new design requires me to do a lot of scrolling and clicking to find what I want.



If the purpose of a redesign is to make things easier to find, there doesn't really seem to have been a good reason for this. Website beauty at the expense of functionality shouldn't be acceptable.



Also, some links don't work the way you think they might: clicking on links for some shows take you to a page with "Broadcast" links. Then clicking on a link to listen simply takes the user back to the Radio 4 main page.



I would definitely vote to return to the "old" page - clean, clear, concise.



BM

Where have all the lovely archives gone? Those giant repositories of top quality broadcasts were surely the whole point of this site? There are links to the old In Our Time archive, and from there I can get to the Science archives. Will you be building a new archive from scratch, moving the old programs into this new system, or will we only have access to programs from the last few days from now on?

#43 The archives are still there, you can get to them using their old URLs, for example:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/hhgttf/



It is worth noting that In Out Time now has three archives, one on the iPlayer, one as podcasts and another at https://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/inourtime/inourtime_archive_home.shtml that is partly in realplayer format.

Tell the team...Thanks for the excellent formation of the R(adio) 4 Website....Congrats on a GREAT Job....



~Dennis Junior~

The new look is great. Would it be possible to include, on the homepage, the local time and a "What's on now?" and a "Coming Up"? Thanks for your time!

Many thanks to the designers they have done an excellent job and i look forward to using it for many an hour or two .



also the language is easy to understand and tries to avoid the jargon that is now used so much and confuses people when first they come to use their computers and are struggling to remember thing's,so keep up the good work in this dept if not in some policies and agendas

The new look is not "great". So much space is taken with dominating pictures that people have to hunt hard for what they want.



Look at all the comments beneath the section titled "The New Radio 4 Web Site".



Not many people there are very satisfied.



arlatan

Sorry, that should have read 'beneath the section titled, "Your feedback on the redesign".



Even the sites for comment are easy to confuse.



arlatan

I can't help noticing that the photographs of the people working on the new site show them as looking very, very young. No doubt they can see clearly the pale, tiny printing on the glaring white background but a lot of people like me struggle mightily.



Could an "inverse video" option be put on the pages?????



Trevor

Leicester

https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3439/3401196056_401222eb3c_o.png



That one is much more legible!



Trevor

Leicester

.....and the Friday episodes of Archers, Daunt and Dervish and Excess Baggage are all unavailable (again). The access to programmes is the worst eer

What happened to my long and detailed comment?

the format is much clearer, but I often get the following message when I follow links



'No suitable nodes are available to serve your request'



i.e. click on Comedy on the right hand side and I get this message.



If the BBC wishes to test out the new website by user feedback, is this blog an appropriate method? Why no direct contact details /error reports ?

Well, I'd better write it again!



This website is or should be aimed at the R4 audience, who do not need lots of pictures but do need clear links to programmes. We now have to click more times to listen to a programme (and often several more to find it in the first place). Like so much else on radio and TV these days, the content seems to be aimed at the dumbed-down generation rather than those of us who have minds and like to use them. And that is not the radio 4 audience.



The designers see to have taken the Radio 2 template and moved it over without taking account of the very different nature and content of the two stations.



What is especially irritating is that so often now we get error messages - a programme is "not available" or "this content doesn't seem to be working". Especially irritating with The Archers and some of the serials. And odd things happen - why is Episode 3 of Daunt and Dervish not avialable to hear? The note seems to imply that there is a copyright problem (and Episode 5 was also "not working" last night.)



For those of us who live abroad and can't hear programmes on the radio the increased lack of access to our favourites is becoming very frustrating. Where the BBC once led, it now seems to be letting us down.

Episode 3 of Daunt and Dervish (currently missing from iPlayer as an individual item) can be heard from Wednesday's Woman's Hour programme.



Russ

I feel really mean because the designers and

client side developers photographs show extremely nice looking people. However I'm not

sure thy are regular R4 listeners since the

site which is the result of their efforts ( with

no/little listener consultation?) is quite a long way from what is needed/ required by LISTENERS. See the users' comments on your different blogs for confirmation of this view.

I don't think 'bedding down' is an appropriate

term. R4 listeners just give up and don't complain any more which does not mean

they are happy.

What a pity!

hi



am still finding out about the new site...will take a while to get familiar.



While i am here:



(1)

the Radio 4 logo at the top of *this* page links back to the blog



https://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/radio4/



rather than to the Radio 4 homepage



https://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/



(2)

It would be incredibly useful to be able to *at a glance* see what was coming up on Radio 4 on its own homepage. Even on the BBC homepage there are both whats on now and what's coming up without having to open a little green + button labelled 'more'.



(3)

where have all the listings of the Frequencies gone to? Is this in preparation for future changes?



best regards

nick

If enough of us complain, will we get our old website back?



I think not.



Therefore, what's the use of complaining?



I'll bet it's only the Listeners who actually 'listen' .........while the producers wear earmuffs!

Why did you have to ruin a functional website with cheap gimmickry? It seems impossible to find any old In Our Time Programmes to listen to again.

So when will the new designer team be sacked?

@dougsbody30: The In Our Time archive is still available on the In Our Time website:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/inourtime/



This is the direct link to the archive:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/inourtime/inourtime_archive_home.shtml



Alternately, you can just click the subject you're interested in (Philosophy, Religion, Science, History or Culture) from the programme's brand page:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006qykl