Filming of Radio 3 Haydn Concert

Oh, dear. I meant to draw people's attention to this on the Performance MB so that they could come here and comment. But the discussion seems to be going on over there instead https://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbradio3/F7497567?thread=6689718



I would like to repeat what I said over there, though: it's a visual breath of fresh air to see a film which plonks a couple (?) of cameras down and picks out the individual players at key moments. It's rather like a conductor bringing the instrumentalist in :o) General shots of the orchestra allow one to concentrate on the music. Perhaps one could agree that the visual should never *distract* from the music?



Perhaps Roland (or someone) might take up the issue of developing the new technique of 'visualisation' of radio as against improving the audio quality of radio, especially with the scrapping of FM now looming.

I don't think that you are going to win any Oscars with your filming of the Proms this summer, Graeme.



Nevertheless, as something of a promenader myself, I have always found that being in the Arena, watching on television (or online) and listening on the radio, are three very different experiences (of the same concert), with increasing levels of abstraction, and that the 'live' promenading experience experience is not necessarily better than any other. There might be all sorts of complicating factors.



Nevertheless, it can be interesting for the blogger to explore what is going on, so to speak, so the best bet, in my view, is to make such 'visualisations' online as interactive as possible, even if french frank never makes the legendary Nag's Head. Cheers!



;)

I think the visualisation of radio offers different opportunities to different stations. Five Live for example have broadcast their live Simon Mayo show from Edinburgh using a special player comprising a live video feed of the broadcast.



Such an approach may work on Radio 3 although being a slightly conservative traditionalist I would possibly take some persuading to appreciate the joys of watching a live video stream of Choral Evensong or In Tune. That said, why give it a go .. .it wouldn't be the first time I've been persuaded.



Having demonstrated the obvious high directing standards employed in the video above (vision mixing to music is as much an art as the composing in the first place) I'd propose something hitherto I've only see in photographs.



Britten composed Owen Wingrave as a result of a BBC commission. Since it's recording and subsequent broadcast in 1971, why not take those original director's notes (they must be in the Written Archive Centre in Caversham or at the Red House in Aldeburgh) and produce it in HD, stream it live on the web and then offer it up to TV. Make it a deliberately scaled down version for the web (ie simple presentation) to reflect the constraints Britten composed the chamber operas under.



It's a hugely tall order. The rights are a nightmare. The production team would be hideously overworked and it maybe the case that Gregory has to be on a night train from Glasgow to do any subsequent editing. But it would be an exciting proposition.

Curiously, I do quite like watching 'In Tune' on flickr, ThoroughlyGood, so a video would be an interesting development of Sean in action.



https://www.flickr.com/photos/bbcradio3intune/



Of course, with video, you really want to capture the dramatic potential of an image, and you may be right. Choral Evensong, even from New College Oxford, may not be quite dramatic enough.



As for Britten, this is a good idea, although as the rights issue would, without prejudice, be a nightmare, I would suggest that we do something original in the legendary 'Nag's Boudoir' instead.



As french frank pointed out in her initial comment, we have been discussing all this on the 'Performance' messageboard, too.



https://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbradio3/F7497567?thread=6689718&latest=1



The consensus, if you want one, Graeme, is that you've got a runner.



;)

Your links are very impressive, Roland. You might also want to consider taking lunch with the FT today, as Sir Simon Rattle cooks the FT's Music Critic, Andrew Clark, a cold shoulder (of lamb) before the twilight of the gods.



https://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/fb4b5fe8-5c52-11de-aea3-00144feabdc0.html



Returning Paul quotes 'Orchestral manoeuvres on the web' directly from this weekend's 'Lunch with the FT' article in french frank's 'Performance' messageboard discussion thread, Roland. I suspect that the BBC Proms, Performance on 3 and radio are about to enter a new world of online filming, and it is good to see you leading the way on BBC Radio 3. Thoroughlygood, too! All the best, c.

I'm finding this new experiment really fascinating and I have to say Graeme that all the hard work you describe in your blog has definitely proved worthwhile. If only we'd had this kind of listening/viewing facility back in the Dark Ages when I was doing my O and A level music. Discovering Music will work brilliantly with this radio visualisation!



One thing I do wonder is how well this might work on an even tighter budget with simply one camera covering the whole orchestra - as if one was sitting at the back of a hall? Obviously not such an interesting and involving experience as having multiple camera shots and nifty editing, but perhaps it would work well for smaller scale pieces and of course chamber music and being cheaper might allow R3 to do more of these projects? Personally I'd rather have more to watch/listen to with a simpler presentation than see the budget spent on just a few complex productions.



I wonder if R3 would actually be able to make some income out of this by producing programmes which are specifically linked to each year's current A and O level music set pieces? Perhaps selling a DVD version to schools and colleges?



Another point I'd like to make is that non-musical friends always tell me how fascinating they find the rehearsal process for a concert, and how it often makes them even more keen and enthusiastic about attending the concert itself. Maybe you could have the occasional rehearsal footage, especially perhaps of a world premiere, or BBC commissioned piece? I know some orchestral players (and conductors) get "shy" having rehearsals watched, but there's really no better way for keen listeners to get inside a new or unfamiliar piece.

More radio visualisation please!!!



Back to the violin practice now, too much procrastination going on!

I would agree with maestrolover that this approach, Graeme, could have particularly interesting applications for music students, not only at advanced and degree level, but also amongst younger children, who may see classical music as something just for old people.



One of my big regrets about BBC Radio over recent years is the way in which the Controllers of R3 and R4 have both found it necessary to shelve their broadcasts to younger people. 'Making Tracks' and 'Go4It' spring to mind, even though Go4It made a belated appearance at the third Free Thinking Festival in Liverpool last year.



I guess that a juvenile approach often appeals to me, and one way to get to children is online. Perhaps you could have a go at schools with something over the summer at the BBC Proms. I always try and get some young people into the Arena with me, and it would be great if Roger, Roland, Thoroughlygood et al could come up with something interactive, and compelling, online.



;)

>> PS. What do you think of this lot?

Midsummer Night's Dream

Elijah

Dido and Aeneas

John McCabe



I think I'm probably ruled out from having a useful opinion :o) One direction in which people have gone is that they seem to now value - and want - some sort of ('artificial') visuals: cinema, television, dvds, videos, computer games &c. I'm probably at the extreme end (and part of a tiny minority?) in not being keen. I like live theatre, concerts and opera, and listening to the radio. Nevertheless, undeterred ...



1. AMSND: I think it was an excellent idea to have a production incorporating the Mendelssohn music, but for me the radio drama itself lost out by having been performed in a big hall with an audience. It lost that intimate quality by having the louder stage delivery. And seeing it, well, that made it worse because the dress and the presence of the orchestra were a curb on the imagination. So - as a film it could be well-directed and technically excellent but I don't think I would have chosen this particular production for a visualisation. I want to eavesdrop on the characters and the music to be the music of the woods not Charles Hazlewood and the BBC Concert Orchestra. A curiosity but no magic.



2. Elijah - I thought this was fine, in that it presented what you would see and hear in a concert performance, in fact it gave a better view (as did the Haydn).



3. Discovering Music: Way to go!! :-) [That said, the target audience for R3's Discovering Music was changed in 2003; the visualisation seems fine for the new audience, school students &c. I'd prefer the old, dry, boring style without visuals which can be more analytical]



4. CotW: Um, well, take no notice of me, but I can't see what this gains over the radio version ... but I'm sure many people will be interested.



(I bet your walking and chewing is already better than mine.)

It is interesting how much you do for children and young people, Roland. Much of it, even at the proms, passes me by. Because I am no longer that much of an adolescent, apart from much of my behaviour (some of us never really grow up), I am perhaps not conscious of what BBC Radio 3 (or 4) is 'doing' for the education of present and, perhaps more importantly, future generations.



I doubt that 'Making Tracks' or 'Go4It' could work solely online, but there was a suggestion on the BBC Radio 4 message boards today that a family orientated programme, which could appeal to all ages and both sexes, might be worth exploring.



https://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbradio4/F2766774?thread=6691427



I suspect that this is beyond your control, Roland, but throwing up the idea to Roger Wright and Mark Damazer, I think that BBC Radio should prioritise such a development. If the BBC does not address education seriously, it is failing in its core public service mandate. It would be shame if you, and the rest of us, too, failed to take up the challenge.

The word interactive caught my eye. Over on the Radio 4 Blog they are discussing the Twitter based 'Good'Radio Club' and the Tweeters on the Reith Lectures.

Maybe we can look forward to the prommers starting their own Twitter community to comment on the concerts as they happens and to collect up the comments to provide an instant review for the Webcast.

The the BBC need do nothing but 'go with the flow'

What is interesting about some other webvision enabled programmes is they have 'educational support' much of it from the OU so Talking About Music is a good start for a webcast if properly supported. The R3 post blog on the Gormley talks shows how these were crying out Flickr type support. (a slide show?)



Finally of course it doesn't have to be radio en-visioned. As BBC News/Radio 4's The Bottom Line shows, it can work the other way where distracting(?) visuals are removed to better reveal the words and hopefully the thoughts.

With BBC Radio 4's distinguished message board host, Anna, closing all my discussions about Reith on 'The Choice is Yours' message board yesterday, cping500, I probably have very little alternative but to turn away from the BBC message boards towards these blogs, the unstimulating OU 'Reith' forum, Twitter and other forms of online, and offline communication.



Indeed, Graeme, Roland and Thoroughlygood, I would say that the internet has become such a potent force for communication at the beginning of the twenty-first century, that it is bound to be controlled and even manipulated by forces far stronger than even 'Anna'.



Nevertheless, from BBC Radio 3's perspective, there is an opportunity to use such potential to bring great music, art and culture to a far wider audience. You never know, Roland. You could yet save civilisation itself!



;)

Good morning to everyone reading 'The Radio 3 Blogs'. I really do not know what the infamous vice king of Europe, 'kleines c', and his miserable triad, are doing discussing 'The Reith Lectures' on the BBC website, Graeme.



This particular blog entry is about the 'Filming of Radio 3 Haydn Concert', and all kleines c's gang can do are discuss the Baron (Reith), the Professor (Sandel) and the power of the internet.



The filming of the Radio 3 Haydn Concert, Graeme, was inspired, although c-returns would like to see Thoroughlygood filming in the Arena of the Royal Albert Hall, possibly even for 'The Seven Last Words' (prom 6).



https://www.bbc.co.uk/proms/2009/whatson/2007.shtml



;)