Wednesday 31 March 2010

Sounds like Brown is panicking if he feels the need to tell illegal immigrants that they're not welcome. Case of the bleeding obvious?

What are people's needs and fears surrounding immigration?

Do they amount to ecobetsy's terror that her Miss Marple's world of Much Binding-in-the-Marsh be overrun by raki sodden, backgammon board wielding Tajikis?

This is why Paul Mason's package on "What's wrong with Britain?" needs expanding; I am keenly interested in why the people he spoke to should see immigration as the source of their predicaments; it might edify Gordon also and spare us more fatuous populist remarks on the subject as the election makes the political atmosphere increasingly febrile.

And give people like ecobetsy, statist, indignindie and the rest of the happy crew some primary source evidence as opposed to their one issue zealotry.

'Gordon Brown insisted today that immigration is not out of control by quoting new figures demonstrating that net migration to Britain has fallen since 2007 and promising further substantial cuts.'

The Tories are already querying the figures and I think that when previous government figures tried to depict there being 16,000 Poles in the UK when it became clearer the figure was nearer one million then I doubt many people are going to be swayed by his claim.

Its also the case that the economy is not doing well relatively and so you have to consider the situation when - if - it improves.

But I do hope that there is a united strategy against the BNP in areas such as Barking where there is an issue with their utterly cynical lies - such as the Barnbrook "dyslexia and church bells combo" that led him to cite local murders that never happened.

On climate gate can Susan watts make clear - if it is true - that the other two data sets internationally available do confirm the UEA model's findings.

You get these people ranting on about a giant conspiracy and I believe the Chief Science Officer has said that the criticisms of UEA - though warranted - don't change the big picture at all.

Inevitably the far right posters on this page will be citing conspiracy - and that Jews were beind the towers going down on 9/11; the "Holocaust was made up to put people off statism" usually followed by a large group howling and then they change the subject when facts are raised.

I mention this only as visitors to the page may sometimes double check whether it is in fact a BBC site.

'With Labour facing a challenge in some areas from the anti-immigration BNP, Mr Brown urged a "united front" among the main parties to combat "xenophobia".'

Here's the problem. Xenophobia (fear of strangers) like neophobia (fear of the novel or unknown of which it is just a sub-class in my view), is innate. It is a defence mechanism upon which, I suggest, all learning (behavioural change) is based. It is a defense system closely related to the immune system, and stress/fight-flight. It is probably endogenous opioid and cortisol mediated (see immunosuppression and what the steroids do). The endogenous opioid peptides are in fact 1000x more powerful than exogenous morphine! The immune and defense systems are how animals recognize self from non self. It's basic to assortative mating and reproduction. Have you noted how most people across the world pair up? How does one 'combat' that and what hundreds of thousands of years of Natural Selection has selected for ...without making most people very very very very upset/stressed/angry and ...ultimately ill!?

Rwanda - well I was one of the ones who would have welcomed refugees from there as I could not see that they could reconcile their problems with such a bitter history. However they seem to have done pretty well.

That is especially so as I seem to recall that their prison was so overcrowded that they could not all lie down to sleep at the same time.

I wondered then why the aid programme could not stretch to an extra prison as there were clear knock on security and corruption issues - like you could not send new prisoners to jail without letting somebody out who might be a mass murderer.

Good governance in Africa is an issue everywhere - evn the prosperous South Africa - and so its the long term trend that would catch my eye in Rwanda as they have such a terrible heritage to deal with.

In the election what have the Lib Dems and the Tories said about Prevent should they have power?

I welcomed the fact that it had been extended to include the far right - that have actually numbered more wannabe bombers than al Qaeda in the last few years - but if it is not actually working in the Muslim community would they drop it?

If so would they have a separate and continuing action against the so called "lone wolves" like Lewington who are prepared to use terrorism to further their emotionally based philosophy?

Meanwhile I gather the BNP are concerned that they could be linked to the extremists.

But when you those such as Griffin whose comment on the gay pub bombing victims some years back was that "they were disgusting creatures" I think it is proper that questions are asked.

Most of the far right have similar views - though there has always been bitter internecine battles I understand - and for instance if you follow the far right postson this page and compare the views to those held by Von Bruun (a onetime American Friend of the BNP) you will find that they are very similar when you get onto the subject of Jews.

He shot a guard at a US Holocaust Memorial.

I could be being cynical but in the media there are those who are closer to party spin doctors than others.

Therefore though their impartiality is strained they will be valuable to their employers.

If there were a hung Parliament where "hot" government gossip is more evenly divided could there be a move away from the influence of the "dark masters" to more genuine transparancy.

For instance the media carefully followed the Chilcott Blair posit on his "ten year question" - without dismissing it due to the prior importance of the "Blix question".

Similarly yesterday we learned of the value of strong leadership as shown by Brown. This was not rubbished by the fact that light touch regulation was effectively no touch regulation and that the banks still continue to do as they please. Light touch regulation that Labour created.

Times of uncertainty are sometimes created by those with excessive certainty.

Why was an Ipsos spokesman allowed to get away with the claim that the majority of voters didn't want a hung Parliament they wanted either the Tories or Labour?

Nobody wants a hung Parliament though they do want to change a system that discourages voting due to the first past the post skewing and where the views of the majority in terms of the number of votes cast are not reflected by a government who can have as little as 35% support.

But if there is a hung Parliament the voters views should be respected. That is the will of the people.

I also hope that if the Lib Dems don't get a PR deal that they push it back to the people and a second election if it is down to them.

I suppose Gordon might try to cosy up to Plaid and the SNP - that would be an amusing contortion to watch I am sure.

...now just who was it who said 'British jobs for British workers'?

Interesting piece from Robert Reich in the HuffPost:

'We now know, for example, Goldman Sachs helped Greece hide its public debt and then placed financial bets that Greece would default, using credit-default swaps to avoid risking its own capital. It's the same tactic Goldman used for (and against) American International Group (AIG): Hide the ball, and then bet against the ball and fob off the risk to investors and taxpayers, using derivatives to remove the risky tactics from the balance sheets. Even today no one knows the fair value of the complex derivatives underlying these and related maneuvers, which is exactly the point.

Congress is now struggling to come up with legislation to stop this from happening again. And the Street is struggling to stop Congress. As of now, the Street's political payoffs seem to be working. Proposed legislation still allows secret derivative trading in foreign-exchange swaps (similar to what Goldman used to help Greece hide its debt) and in transactions between big banks and many of their corporate clients (as with AIG).

But wait. We already have a law designed to stop this sort of fraud. It's called the Sarbanes-Oxley Act of 2002.'

So do we have such a law and is the FSA geared up to enforce it?

Browns speech today about immigration....forget about winning the election, Gordon.....

'Prime Minister Gordon Brown has stepped up his pre-election rhetoric on immigration by telling would-be illegal migrants: "You are not welcome."

As kashibeyaz points out in post 1, this is about as useful as telling would be criminals: 'don't commit crimes'. However, it does tell us something about the behaviour of the policy wonks/speech writers for our politicians, i.e it tells us that the demographics which they have sampled says they can get away with such drivel, and that those who might think it ridiculous are probably in a demographic that the above have decided they can safely ignore.

Being objective requires one to think outside one's own limited world, however worldly one may think one is. This is why liberal-democracy is only for the few who profit from it, as should be 'bleeding obvious' by now, but sadly still isn't. :-(

brown might say they are not welcome but given the courts system it is usually impossible to remove the people we shouldn't have


..A convicted rapist who was just hours away from deportation has won the right to stay in Britain after being granted permission to marry. ..

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/lawandorder/7538866/Rapist-refugee-given-permission-to-marry.html

#4; here we go again..........

Xenophobia is innate; prove it, Genie.

Slobbering out the pseudo science was something Jaded Jean made a hallmark of this blog; others have followed, though have struggled to achieve the same vertiginous levels of crassness; except perhaps a certain poster whose endogenous cortisol peptides are so opioid they need a good cleaning with a wire brush and some Dettol.

BE HONEST - WHAT IS YOUR XI

So Brown-Labour is in touch with the grass roots of the Brown Field Site that is Britain 2010, and detects a groundswell of welcome for all persons foreign. Is that really what the people are saying (when the figures are adjusted for honesty)? Check your Xenophobe Index!

History shows that, if you move your home to an alien culture, you have two options: take on their ways, learn their language, and 'de-foreign' yourself asap, OR move to a ghetto and help to expand and strengthen a state within a state. When the host country is stressed, the second option usually yields a disproportionate (or maybe proportionate, in view of the original error) backlash; all too often violent.

What I heard of Brown's speech was mealy-mouthed in the extreme. It is one thing for the Manse to take in the odd beggar or dole the poor; quite another to sow the wind by the hundreds of thousand, in the way we have.

Where we are now, DESPERATELY needs wise counsel, and a shrewd approach - what we are going to get is dumb electioneering.

Weep Britain.

Brown's speech today was yest another example of how what politicians say diverges from what they do. From what I heard of his speech, Brown said the number of immigrants would depend on the UK's economic needs but that immigrants who were not prepared to contribute to the UK and conform to its way of life would not be welcome (I'm paraphrasing here so please don't take this too literally). This suggests that immigrants who don't meet these criteria won't be allowed in to the UK. But does the law allow the UK to discriminate amongst immigrants on that basis? Or does he mean they will be allowed in but once they are here, they won't be welcome? (i.e. Gordon won't talk to them or offer them a cup of tea).

This is all very reminiscent of the politicians (I think Harriet Harman was one of them) teling us that Fred Goodwin should not bank on keeping his pension as the government wouldn't allow it. Surely she must have known there was no proper legal basis for achieving this short of an Act of Parliament which would no doubt have breached the HRA. As far as I'm aware Sir Fred still has his pension.

My own view is that this is nothing short of a deception. But how many people see through it and how many are fooled by it?

#9 - British jobs for British workers. Yet another deception. Gordon knew it would go down well with many but surely he also knew it could not be delivered short of leaving the EU and repealing various existing UK laws. Does he think we are thick?

Our Science editor Susan Watts will be explaining why 'Climategate' may prove to be good for climate science.'

Here's one reason, there's a hidden agenda here, I fear. Note that the FOIA applies to public bodies (universities where many academic researchers work), not private sector bodies/companies where information may be classed as commercially sensitive. Scientists spend an awful lot of time and money collecting data. Their careers depend on this. Forcing them to disclose their data works to the unfair advantage of those working in the Private Sector, i.e commerce.

It is just another attack on the state, and state/public sponsored science. How many see this? There are exemptions in the act which are designed to protect public bodies, but this takes one into legal areas which it could be argued private sector research does not have to worry about, and where lawyers are already on tap as part of the business.

#1 Mr KB you just don't get it do you? I keep pointing out to you I am not a racist, I am not living in the past, but no you take the pi** out of us all because we are english.

THERE IS ONLY ONE THING I OBJECT TO, IT'S TOO MANY PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!! But you choose to ignore that fact. The south east of england IS the most crowded place in europe. But don't let that little fact worry you, you just shout abuse.

#1. kashibeyaz :
“What are people's needs and fears surrounding immigration? I am keenly interested in why the people he (Paul Mason) spoke to should see immigration as the source of their predicaments…. And give people like ecobetsy, statist, indignindie and the rest of the happy crew some primary source evidence as opposed to their one issue zealotry.”

My zealotry apart, I actually feel sorry for people such as you and Go1.
Some people have good reason for hating their own country so much that they seek a better life in UK; and hundreds of our better citizens have been leaving during the past decade because the society and culture that they once knew has been deliberately swamped.

It may be that only we older citizens ever knew an age in which love of one’s country and a strong sense of identity with it was a major thing in life – together with respect for elders, statesmen and entrepreneurs. If you haven’t known such an era then perhaps your lives have been less fulfilling, and self-interest may be your main core value?
#2. Go1:
“….previous government figures tried to depict there being 16,000 Poles in the UK when it became clearer the figure was nearer one million…”

So you are aware of the true scale of the ‘invasion, yet you myopically grind on about one or two individuals with dyslexia and an eye wound.

Then you rather lose focus again with your #5:
“Rwanda - well I was one of the ones who would have welcomed refugees from there as I could not see that they could reconcile their problems with such a bitter history.”

Do you not believe that people from hugely different backgrounds, upbringings and education (not to mention ‘race’ even) bring such differences in culture and values with them?

Do you believe that people who can act with a herd instinct and commit such atrocities will simply shed their culture as they cross the English Channel?

I agree with Barrie, and Statist(at#4)who, in their very different ways (and language) explain our natural resistance and resentment to changes in our society.

If you need further evidence I suggest again that you check the BBC Crimewatch website and compare the most wanted mugshots with the UK population and see if it indicates any lack of integration into our social norms and behaviour. There are many indigenous criminals that bring shame on our society, but uncontrolled immigration has not improved the situation.

14. kashibeyaz 'prove it, Genie.'

You are clearly not a scientist. You clearly don't know how to learn. That is, you clearly have false beliefs but don't know how to correct them. You clearly assert what you believe to be true without realising that much that you hold true must in fact be false, else how do you ever learn?

You are clearly a foreigner (to rationality) as you abuse those who are different to you ;-)

19. ecolizzy '#1 Mr KB you just don't get it do you? I keep pointing out to you I am not a racist, I am not living in the past, but no you take the pi** out of us all because we are english.'

They don't see it ecolizzy. That's the hypocrisy which makes the behaviourso insufferable. :-(

#10 -

Ref : https://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-reich/fraud-on-the-street_b_519450.html

'So do we have such a law and is the FSA geared up to enforce it?'

Could ask the FSA but they just stone wall, mostly. At least they did when I asked if they are investigating a big bank for negligence over allowing alleged criminals to run fraudulent activity via their sole trader accounts and were allowed to go on for at least three years until the activity was brought to the attention of the FSA by the very people who were being scammed and NOT THE BANK.

You wont know anything from the FSA until they publish on their website.

It must have been the FSA who gave the banks approval to join The ICE trust along with the nine founding banks :-

'Intercontinental takes half of ICE Trust US profits, and the nine founding banks split the remaining profits. Over the last few months, Barclays, HSBC, the Royal Bank of Scotland, and BNP Paribas have been approved as trading members of ICE Trust US, although they don’t have an ownership stake.'

REF : https://thekomisarscoop.com/2010/03/the-ice-age/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheKomisarScoop+%28The+Komisar+Scoop%29

Now contrast the morals in all this with a women who sold a gold fish to a 14 year old:-

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1262250/Great-grandmother-tagged-selling-goldfish.html

#15 Barrie ~ Check your Xenophobe Index!

Everyone always critises us and says we are racist, and small minded. Listen to the link below, "Thinking Allowed", 10 mins at the end, research has shown that the wonderfully homogenised country of Brazil is not so ethinically equal as one would think! Guess what, the lighter your skin, the more likely a woman is to wed, and that's the mate the brown and black man would chose.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006qy05

19. ecolizzy - Here's one way that narcissistic entitlement manifests: Someone could post something to one of these blogs which was the result of decades of research by thousands of people, and someone else, who knew nothing about any of it, might read it, and say to themselves 'that's not what I think', rejecting it for that reason, but never grasping that they just had something to learn. What's more, they might demand that someone else explained it to them. Now, imagine same person going into a shop and demanding that the shop keeper gave them food etc, and you have some idea of where narcissistic entitlement comes from and how it's vestigial of arrested development. It comes as a shock to most infants (and later again as adolescents) when they find that the world does not owe them anything. For a while, they appear extremely confident, the world is their oyster....until they don't get their own way.

This is a major problem these days. We seem to have encouraged the prevalence of these behaviours, and they manifest in very small ways, little fragments only, here and there. They tend to be incorrigible too. Normal people mature by having these behaviours rounded by experience, the narcissistic on the other hand, fends those experiences off, and so in some areas, remains a child/adolescent. One does not want to be around when they rage. They get on in life though, and some are lauded for their charisma.....but they are invariably destructive.

HOUSE-PARTY BRITAIN (#19)

Is Britain now like the house-party that has been crashed by so many 'extras', that the only thing to do is shut the doors and run a full human inventory (not to mention removables)? Many of us have been called in, to commercial premises, at a weekend - nothing allowed in or out - to carry out an audited stock-take.

The current fudge is hardly good management - though, of course, we all know that the auditors do a Gallic shrug, routinely, when faced with the accounts of our EU overlords. Perhaps we take our tune from them. Do the French have a term for 'laissez faire'?

I have said before, We need to sweep the country, from end to end, with a 'fingertip search' to compile a Domesday Book of just what IS 'in there'. I reckon there would be some nasty shocks, and some serious realities to address (and not a few dead bodies).

The Tories are right that we can't go on like this and, with a nod to Labour, our current 'unacceptable face' is far from fair.

Meanwhile, Iran goes to China for discussions (including its nuclear rights under the NPT - note Iran wants to join the SCO), I suggest people here look carefully, and fairly, at the awful history, bearing in mind that Iran is but one Near Eastern neighbour of Israel, and that the former is not the only one constantly threatened by superlatives if not more. Such volatile, histrionic, behaviour surely serves nobody's long term interests?

24. ecolizzy 'Everyone always criticizes us and says we are racist, and small minded. Listen to the link below, "Thinking Allowed", 10 mins at the end, research has shown that the wonderfully homogenised country of Brazil is not so ethnically equal as one would think! Guess what, the lighter your skin, the more likely a woman is to wed, and that's the mate the brown and black man would chose.'

Not everyone ecolizzy. You'd be surprised how majority your views actually are.

What you say about Brazil is also true of India. It's ironic that anyone should point to the problems of Rwanda, as it was clear that this was a tribal conflict, the two groups looking very different.

Take this on board ecolizzy, this is political. It is a fomented situation which weakens the largest economic group, and is an egregious political game played largely by one minority group in order to secure social and economic advantage. This is rather well known in academic circles, and the main reason why more people don't hear about it or put it in its proper context is probably because legislation has made those in public bodies who can articulate this best, much harder to hear, as public bodies are legally required to promote good relations (as they indeed should).

Less able groups are being used as canon-fodder by those who want economic power. Anyone who looks at the figures can see what is going on. People who deny this, are denying empirical facts. The sad thing is, pointing out the facts, doesn't appear to change matters. :-(

Gordon Brown has changed tack by talking tough on immigration. He created the impression net immigration - immigration minus emigration - is low by quoting statistics showing a sharp fall in 2008. This was disingenuous - net immigration reached record levels under Labour and is still far higher than 1997.
Previously, Labour argued immigration brings huge economic gains to Britain, a line not pushed by Mr Brown today. But these arguments were bogus. The measureable economic gains are small. But equally there is no indication that Britain as a whole loses out economically from immigration. More on this at at https://the-agenda.co.uk/Immigration2.html

:o) Jeremy is one of the Top Ten Political Reporters according to

Source: https://www.pressgazette.co.uk/story.asp?sectioncode=1&storycode=45248&c=1

#s 21, 22, 25; All I asked for was that Stato provided some proof for "xenophobia is innate".

Still ain't seen none, Boss.

Ecobetsy; I can assure you I would never attempt to "take the pi**" out of you and your pals; you do it so well yourselves, I'm afraid.

....I also see that 6 world powers (China, Russia, US, UK, France & Germany) have agreed to start sanctions against Iran...

Source: https://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Six-World-Powers-Agree-To-Start-Work-On-Iran-Sanctions/Article/201003415590093?lpos=World_News_Carousel_Region_2&lid=ARTICLE_15590093_Six_World_Powers_Agree_To_Start_Work_On_Iran_Sanctions_

Has everyone noticed how in our decaying 'Liberal-Democracy that the standard (ineffectual) response to a problem (like immigration and the birth rate) is to 'have a debate' and/or accuse people with strong views on the matter 'racists'?

Say we had a problem with roads. Would those with strong views on the problem be abused as 'roadists'?

29. the-agenda What the figures show is that Whites (indigenous Britons, East Europeans and Old Commonwealth (USA, Canada, Australia, NZ etc) go, whilst South Asians/Africans stay. If it were not for a major skill/behaviour difference, that wouldn't be such a problem.

Still, it's all been said before, and clearly this pattern must suit some. So much for what the majority want?

Yet again Susan Watts report on climategate not mentioned in the blog " update " and probably sidelined to a short clip in tonight's programme.

" If it all sounds like a re-run of the MPs expenses scandal then that's no accident. In fact Phil Willis drew a direct parallel. "

If there are any parallels its with the Catholic Church and the child abuse scandal given the financial misery following the climate change quasi-religion will impose on the less affluent in UK society.

" There was one dissenting voice. Labour MP Graham Stringer did not sign off the report. He said the committee had gone beyond its remit in stating that it had found no reason to challenge the scientific consensus that "global warming is happening [and] that it is induced by human activity" - citing the chief scientific adviser.

And he'd wanted them to go further by supporting his call for a "reputable scientist" skeptical of anthropogenic climate change to sit on the panels of the two other inquiries into email controversy currently underway. The committee rejected this. "

Given that Graham Stringer is the only qualified scientist on the said committee it rather indicates that the conclusions of the said report are just as suspect as the climate change quasi-religion as a whole.

https://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_8594000/8594561.stm

EQUALITY TAKES A NEW TURN

In theory, the lingua franca of UK is still English, not Manglish. If we apply this daft doctrine of cancelling out the emigrant and immigrant, it implies a Britain full of Manglish speakers (and 'whatever' speakers) would still be viable. Typical political 'logic'.

While I'm on - the Black Police Association is in the news again. When is Griffin going to set up the White one? What a slacker.

https://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/03/30/nasa-data-worse-than-climategate-data/

#31 Hee,hee, kashi, you are pretty ignorant aren't you, as Stat says a narcissist. You're like a child who must have the last word, I'm not personally having a go at you (usually) so why do you hate me so much?

Try listening to my link at #24, you will find out many people around the world are racist, not only you.

MEANWHILE ON THE BACK-CHANNELS (#32)

They will each have their covert 'modifier' clauses. Remember 'Arms for Iraq' and BP (aka UK) busting UN sactions on Rhodesia? No doubt a host of other examples.

32. Mistress76uk But can we entirely believe 'our' press on this matter?

Do you think there should be sanctions against Israel for her nuclear facilities (and not signing the NPT) or is Isrsel 'special'?

As a UK citizen, I'd be interested in your views on what was said back in the 1970s in this link.

Returning to your point, according to Reuters:

'Diplomats say China has been slowly and reluctantly falling in line with the other powers involved in the negotiations on Iran by backing the idea of new U.N. sanctions against Tehran but Beijing wants any new steps to be weak.'

Reuters 31 March 2010

36. barriesingleton 'While I'm on - the Black Police Association is in the news again. When is Griffin going to set up the White one? What a slacker.'

Could you be accused of inciting racist behaviour there? Or might you be perceived to be (RRAA 2000)? Somebody who was offended might make a claim for compensation citing PTSD.

So Gordon Brown goes to the east-end to talk about immigration. What a pity Labour didn't get involved before the BNP stated threatening their cosy majorities. Be careful what you say Gordon else you could be labelled a rascist. Remember the 2005 election when the Tories tried to put it on the agenda?
They must really think we mortals are stupid when they say net immigration is coming down. Of course it will from the dizzy heights under Labour. And when they talk of NET immigration remember those coming in are mainly to take advantage of the health/welfare benefits. Those leaving are usually taking skills and their money.

The issue should not be confused. There should be two figures published, ie Immigration and Emmigration. It's obviously in Labour's interests to talk about NET immigration. Bad figures for government, ie those fed up and leaving the country,and more bad figures for government, ie increased immigration, cancel each other out when Brown talks about NET immiration.

Immigration is allegedly 'good for the minority who essentially own the economy' i.e supermarkets, retailing (especially people who flog trainers, mobiles, DVDs and other essential bling), and Financial/Business Services. Whether it's any good for most Britons is an entirely different question. How about some demographics NN? Who runs Britain (cf. Peston's book).

indignantindegene wrote:
#1. kashibeyaz :
“What are people's needs and fears surrounding immigration? I am keenly interested in why the people he (Paul Mason) spoke to should see immigration as the source of their predicaments…. And give people like ecobetsy, statist, indignindie and the rest of the happy crew some primary source evidence as opposed to their one issue zealotry.”

I don't know where you live but suggest you start talking to people in our large towns and cities. Take it from me- the only reason Labour are taking an interest now is because their heartlands voting base is at stake. People just don't like the way their surroundings are changing beyond recognition.

ecolizzy

Your choice of user name say’s a lot about you. Don’t let those whom have blindfolded themselves get to you.

Their rantings, all too often repeated ad nauseum, only highlight their deep rooted fears that someone else may actually be more intelligent than themselves.

It is not only the blind that are unable to see.

It is a good thing that the issue of overcrowding is finally getting more time from the political - and media - elite. True, it’s not enough and it’s way too late but it is something. Sadly we will get an ever increasing tsunami of meaningless waffle from the big three which is designed to - and sadly will - placate and anesthetize many of the the prols but, as statist so often say’s, that is exactly what they want.

I would like to remind the Nn team re tonight’s main story .....

44. At 10:22pm on 19 Mar 2010,

For non-political purposes the policy of the three prominent parties could be summarised as .... Nu Lab. We’ll open and close the door as necessary but you won’t have any say in it and it won’t have any relevance to UK unemployment figures.. Nu Cons. We’ll open the door until our quota is reached but we won’t tell you what the quota is and if the allowance isn’t met we’ll invite them to come. Lib Doms .... What door? There’s a door? We don’t see no door!


And then add ....

An’ it aint gonna get any clearer dan dat!

@ Statist #40 - India, Pakistan and Israel are not signed up to the NPT. North Korea left their NPT. Frankly, I do agree with them. Why should the US dictate to other countries who should and should not possess nuclear weapons, especially if there is a threat across the border to their country?

Maybe we need to consider Gordon Brown as an undesireable immigrant?

This is no longer the land of the blind....it's time now to show the cyclops the door!

On a completely different note to everyone else:

Jamie Oliver's Healthy School Meals 'Improve Results Among Middle-class Pupils'.

Rather than see eating healthy 'Jamie Oliver' food as boosting your child's achievement at school, why not see it as a case of a balanced diet allowing your child to express his/her innate intelligence? Why not see the junk usually forced down his/her throat as stunting his/her intelligence?

Why not see the fact that most British men could boost their sperm count by eating food, rich in the necessary vitamins and minerals, as proof of how their usual diets reduce their sperm counts? Why not see a change in the diet significantly in the direction of greater balance, as returning the sperm count to where it should be according to the man's genetics?

Why not see dieting, by switching to a healthy and balanced diet, not as losing weight, but as returning to your natural weight, as determined by your genetics?

I don't think I have ever heard or read a journalist express 'health' news stories in these terms, although I'm sure the scientists, whose research the reports are based on, invariably have.

..More than 1,500 people were treated in hospitals on Merseyside in 2009 after being attacked by dogs,

They also found that status dogs, such as pitbull-types or rottweilers, were to blame for the vast majority of the attacks.

https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/8597356.stm

we need a national dog licence linked to an animal welfare and control course. any dog that attacks anyone the owner must face the crime. in the usual uk joke justice if you hit a dog attacking you the owner can sue you.

#30

Mistress76uk

Goes without saying and there is much more to Jeremy than just being a political reporter

mim

49. Strugglingtostaycalm Now that's sensible writing - although sadly, there's not a lot of evidence that environment (which includes diet and everthing else that happens post conception) makes very much difference, expecially in developed nations.

The Iran sanctions saga:

'Has the U.S. abandoned plans to target the Iranian regime's access to banking and credit and to isolate Iranian air and shipping transport? While recent reports to that effect have been strenuously denied by the administration, it has become clear that Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's promise of "crippling sanctions" and President Barack Obama's "aggressive" penalties are little more than talk. The administration simply cannot persuade a critical mass of nations to join with it.'

Wall Street Journal 31 March 2010

When will be able to call a spade a spade again?

This is an old english, gardening derived, saying....alas, not allowed to be said anymore!

...go on mods, ban me if you dare!

Immigration
The report which was shown was not relevant to the issue but flawed. The programme failed to highlight the core problem, the influx of East European since 2004. Unlike other European countries, Britain agreed the free labour movement and that led to millions of East European migrants to come here. It has created both negative public reaction and caused deep concern, as the government was never prepared for such influx.

While it was very refreshing to see a representative from UKIP on Newsnight's item on immigration, Jeremy Paxman's treatment of him did tend to give the impression that he was there "just so we can tick the box". It would have been better to allow him into the discussion so he was able to expand on UKIP's policy in this area and respond to the other parties' arguments, instead of permitting the other panel members just to shout him (and each other)down so we learnt nothing at all useful. The only impression I was left with was that they were all rather worried about UKIP being there at all, upsetting their cosy little club.

I haven't a clue whether there's anything at all appealing, content and rhythm & rhyme wise, in my ditties but nevertheless I thought I'd try and share one on evolution with those who can be bothered, or willing, to read it:

Evolution


The subject of the ditty that is to follow,
Still causing quite a few brows to furrow,
Is evolution and subjects around it.
Hope it reads well and by wit surrounded.

It all began with a man called Darwin
Who with his work the whole world astounded.
The subject being man’s evolution,
A new proposal and a new solution

Of how we came on this planet to live,
Learning to share, to take and to give
The harvested crops of what we now call the brain,
The mind and the soul, thereof a human domain.

A problem arose from his new discovery
Of how the faith to tackle with bravery.
From ape thou cometh, to dust thou returneth,
Or rot in soil, depending on faith.

My own solution came by itself
Or, strictly speaking, from discussions I had
With a lady from Poland in a city in Scotland.
A biologist she was at the University there
But, alas, I haven’t kept any contact with her.

When on the point of losing my faith
I cried, I protested, I prayed.
But then what happened, all that while me praying,
I saw some light from heavens downloading,

Making me realise all was in vain
Expecting help, that’s how it waned,
‘Go out and be, it’s all up to you,
Do what you can’. From then this clue

Has guided me in all my various attempts
To steer my paths in future events,
Fully aware I descend from apes
And like them enjoying the close to me mates.

Before I finish I’ll turn to emotions
One of Charles Darwin’s favourite notions
Of how we humans with animals share
Ways of expressing a laughter or glare,

Anger, joy, sadness, love and the rest,
Thoust were born eastwards or towards the west
Or whether thoust from the north are or from the south
And whatever language comes from thine own mouth.

mim

We all have the right to protest, unlike in some countries; you know the ones. But the moment the protests turns ugly, the police should go about the usual business of cracking sculls with there battons. Targetting especially the ringleaders - whether real or percieved. The gobby mouth pieces such as the red hooded protester, Jake Smith - he who found it hard to be at the scene of his beating whilst recalling the protest, would have took a bullet to the head if it had've been in Brazil or Iran, so stop whining Jake.
I've been charged at by horses when Man City were at Maine road in the 80s. I've had my nose broke twice, three broken ribs, and more than a few fat lips whilst having a bit of fun with the police. Never once did i feel the urge in seeking out a lawyer. If your going to a protest and it turns ugly and you haven't the guts for it, don't get gobby...retreat into a pub, or if you've got a constitiution not unlike Jake Smith ...a veggie burger bar.

I would like to comment about the immigration report and debate...but i won't. I think I'm getting too predictable regards this subject. I will say this though: Paxman was very good, shame about the guests, especially the Lib, Chris Hulme and Labours Phil Wollarse.

And one re:

Evolutionary Recommendations


We differ from apes, though, by having a will
And it’s up to us to climb up a hill
Should we feel we have things to offer
Or simply keep plentiful the family coffer.

I have no prescriptions to come up with here
Just be kind to kids is my request mere
Whether your own or somebody else’s
Prepare them for life equipped with defences.

None of us has asked to walk on this Earth
But as adults we sometimes forget
That the kiddies somewhat vulnerable still are
Whether they’re now learning or not yet their three Rs.

Ultimately it is not the knowledge, however, that counts
But what we do with our lives and how kind we are
To others that we meet through the fragile existence
And on this I would always remain quite insistent.

Writing and reading and arithmetic are the three Rs
But also rhythm and rhyme and reason spring here to mind.
It’s obvious that every kid round the globe
Should to those unquestionably be rightly exposed.

But the rest, well, there is not one single solution
Too complex by nature is man’s evolution
But when it comes to caring and sharing
A choice needs to be made, it’s obviously glaring.

My choice has been made otherwise alone
I intend to pursue my life from now on.
I would suggest that love with the three Rs be taught
Wherever the schools may be placed round the globe.

mim

(refrain) 'GENOCIDE, AND THE LIVIN' IS EA - SY'

Whoever thought of setting Rwanda's story to music, is functioning way beyond my ken. I was listening to the words, but slowly began to feel I could not comprehend. Suddenly, I realised there was a bloke singing all over it. I missed the next bit.

Edgy though.

Yet again another sterling Jeremy tonight :o) Many pertinent points raised on immigration, and also good to see that UKIP and not just the 3 main parties were given an opportunity to give their views on the subject. It is only with open discussion without accusations of racism that solutions can be found.

Glad to see he told Green et al off for all talking at the same time.

A very moving report by Tim in Rwanda tonight too.

'Interesting' coverage on the London borough. Just remember two things:

1) Projections are that over 99% of London's population growth over the next 30 years will be in BME groups.

2) That between 1950 and today, whilst Britain's population grew by about 10 million, each of Nigeria, Pakistan and Bangladesh tripled from under 50 million to 150 million.

That is down to the birth rate in these ethnic groups.

Try to work out what that means for sustainable infrastructure and services.

On the other hand, if none of that matters to you and you just want to sell cheap and tatty stuff...

Politicians in the studio (and conference link)...pah - you are nowhere near as clever as any of you think you are - any of you, alas.

This is serious stuff. This, I suggest, is why Nigeria, Bangladesh and Pakistan look like they do. What must happen here soon? If you think it isn't going to happen, ask why it isn't? In Twower Hamelts at 7 years of age the schools are 23% White British now. Given the consequences, why weren't the brakes put on the above countries by their own people long ago? All our greedy consumber seeking business orientated politicians have done is brought these problems here for short termist profit. Who might have induced them to do that?

Wanna buy some trainers?

:-(

47. Mistress76uk 'India, Pakistan and Israel are not signed up to the NPT. North Korea left their NPT. Frankly, I do agree with them. Why should the US dictate to other countries who should and should not possess nuclear weapons, especially if there is a threat across the border to their country?'

OK, so what about Iran? Presumably it feels threatened by Israel?

BLAIR NOT TAKING ANY PAYMENT.

Lord Tony of Sycophancy?

#57 & #59

self-criticism

I'm not happy, happy with everything in these ditties and have doubts about some of the rhythms in particular. Otherwise they are a testimony of how I felt at the time of writing them and largely to this day.

mim

#49 Strugglingtostaycalm

Great idea. I have certainly seen some evidence of improved nutrition for children at the very least improving their ability to concentrate.

Only one problem. Those who most need to hear the simple message already have glue ear! And those who try to deliver it are soon given a one of the cauliflower variety for interfering or 'not understanding'.

#50 JauntyCyclist

Isn't it a bit late when the dog has attacked someone. A licence doesn't make a dog (or its owner) safer. Muzzles, proper leashes and training FIRST before a licence is granted.

Perhaps it is the owners who should be licensed before they are ever allowed to get their hands on any dog.

Everyone who says 'my dog will never hurt anyone' is at best misguided, at worst a liar. At age 6 my son was knocked unconscious by a gorgeous chocolate labrador who 'just wanted to say hello'

The crux of the immigration problem in Britain today should not be a febrile and stale discussion about the 'numbers' of immigrants who are being let in. A much more productive and mportant discussion about this emotive subject should focus on the failure of both this and previous Governments to ensure that those immigrants who have come to settle in our country are fully integrated into our wider society, and are willing to respect our cultural and historical liberal democratic traditions - itself under enormous threat in recent years from the increasingly illiberal policies that have been pursued by authoritarian Labour Government.

There is no doubt in my mind that many of those who call in their ever harsher language for immigration to be halted do so out of racial prejudice and/or xenophobic prejudices. Many of these anti-immigrant prejudices are very often the deep seated products of the psycological insecurities of people who cannot resist having a go at immigrants for all of their personal misfortunes (such as umemployment) and blaming immigrants for every socal and economic ill in this country, from crime to the lack of affordable social housing. Hence, for example, the same racist bigots who rant on ad nauseam about immigrants 'taking all our jobs' also simultaneously condemn immigrants for an apparent desire to sponge off our welfare benefits system as their alleged main motivation for coming over to our country! Thus, accordng to this prejudiced and warped logic, the protean immigrant is both the metaphoical thief who steals jobs from the indigenous Brits, and the metaphorical thief who also exploits our benefits syetm because they are work shy! The ordinary hard-working and law abiding typical immigrant in this country simply cannot win under such a catch-all anti-immigrant simplistic narrative.

Where I passionately believe immigration policy has gone wrong is on the issue of social and cultural integration - or rather, the lack of any political will to make this a polcy priority by any of our politicians. Both the nature of, and the underlying reasons for, this lack of cultural integration in Britain are both numerous and complex. But its consequences do go a long way to explaining why many indigenous British people seem increasingly resentful of immigrants and immigration.

Many decades ago, when immigrants arrived in the UK (often from the British Commonwealth), they brought with them an almost infectious and innate pride about being British and they were very keen to identify with British culture and the British way of life. They also saw it as their duty to integrate socially and culturally into the mainstream and also to learn how to speak, write and read English. The problem nowadays, however, is that in our towns and cities the indigenous population do not feel that they can connect socially with many immigrant communities because within those communities there is not that sense any longer of pride in being British. Worse still, it seems that within many of those immigrant communities the speaking of Englsh is no longer a priority. When I walk around many parts of London I am now more conscious of the fact that it seems that most of the people around me are not comfortable communicating in ing English. There is also much anecdotal evidence that some immigrants who wish to settle here have been living here for many years but are still struggling to speak and socially communicate in English. I think that this is the nub of the problem. If, in any society, the population is not encouraged to speak a common language then that society sows the seends of mutual mistrust and social disintegration both between, and even within, its different communities. To the indigenous British citizen it is perhaps easy to understand why, to them, an immigrant who rarely speaks English is some sort of 'foreigner' who does not seem interested in fully integrating themselves into the social, cultural and political mainstream of our society.

In the forthcoming General Election, our politicians should stop playing the anti-immigrant race card by entering into a disgusting Dutch auction about which party can be the nastiest and toughest on immigrant entry into the UK. Instead, their time would be much more constructively spent on developing imaginative social policies that are designed to foster a greater, more unified and cohesive, sense of a shared British identity, and in making the adoption of spoken and written English the absolute priority for all immigrants who are allowed to settle in this country.

The following ditty is a bit daft but it does summarise some of the things that have been going on:

Madam Mim


Oh, but pray dear readers, have you heard of Madam Mim
Who always for some reason acts on a whim
Whenever she sees the old devil moon
With visions on it a dancing baboon?

It always makes her come up with a spin
Wishing the baboon to fall off the rim.
She goes into unfathomable rhythm and rhyme
Casting her precious polyfacious dime.
Madam Mim has been known to be called a witch
As well as an unruly, uncontrollable bitch.
While others prefer to see her as a twirling star
To be cherished and loved from close or from afar.

So this is the story of differing perceptions
And of the baboon’s twisted self-deception
Once a baboon always a baboon
While others are destined to live on the moon.

mim

67. ben66 '...should focus on the failure of both this and previous Governments to ensure that those immigrants who have come to settle in our country are fully integrated into our wider society, and are willing to respect our cultural and historical liberal democratic traditions - itself under enormous threat in recent years from the increasingly illiberal policies that have been pursued by authoritarian Labour Government.'

Liberal governments can't do that. That is why they are not called authoritarian. New labour has been one of the most anarchistic. How does a non authoritarian Government make what you want happen?

'There is no doubt in my mind that many of those who call in their ever harsher language for immigration to be halted do so out of racial prejudice and/or xenophobic prejudices.'

This strongly suggests to me that you are prejudiced, in that you have not looked at the demographic facts of the matter. See post #62 for a start.

One has to look at what is the case in the world, not respond to matters in terms of how one thinks it might make one look to others. That is to be conditioned by social desirability rather than the facts. It is the latter which make the world what it is.

'Many of these anti-immigrant prejudices are very often the deep seated products of the psycological insecurities of people who cannot resist having a go at immigrants for all of their personal misfortunes (such as umemployment) and blaming immigrants for every socal and economic ill in this country, from crime to the lack of affordable social housing.'

A lot of them are less fortunate because they are less able genetically. That's just a sad fact of life. You will not make them more able by giving them money or services. There is no evidence that education raises ability. It just selects abilities already there. Education is not a magic, bucket filling, process.

Those who tease, abuse, punish etc immigrants (or other less able) people because of how they are, are also a problem, but if they have deep-seated dispositions, what can one do about this? Shouldn't one respect/manage their behaviour if these too are genetic?

'Hence, for example, the same racist bigots who rant on ad nauseam about immigrants 'taking all our jobs' also simultaneously condemn immigrants for an apparent desire to sponge off our welfare benefits system as their alleged main motivation for coming over to our country!'

And very often they are right. Why else would such people leave their own countries and come here? What makes here more attractive? This is one of the problems with building a welfare state. It's why socialist countries built walls of some sort. It was to keep others out (see teh ring around West Berlin, and enclave in East Germany).

'Thus, accordng to this prejudiced and warped logic, the protean immigrant is both the metaphoical thief who steals jobs from the indigenous Brits, and the metaphorical thief who also exploits our benefits system because they are work shy! The ordinary hard-working and law abiding typical immigrant in this country simply cannot win under such a catch-all anti-immigrant simplistic narrative.'

Most people don't mind hard working immigrants who integrate, providing the economy can sustain them and that they contribute. The justified fear that many have, is that immigrants will turn their enclaves into a replication of the communities which they left back home. In many respects those fears are well grounded.

'Where I passionately believe immigration policy has gone wrong is on the issue of social and cultural integration - or rather, the lack of any political will to make this a polcy priority by any of our politicians.'

Because you want a liberal, non authoritarian (aka anarchistic) government. That's why we have seen so much deregulation though, that's why we are losing the welfare state through cuts and privatisation! That's why people have been financially exploited. Many of those doing the exploiting are very keen on mass immigration, as it means more consumers, more debtors, often spending welfare money too!

'Both the nature of, and the underlying reasons for, this lack of cultural integration in Britain are both numerous and complex. But its consequences do go a long way to explaining why many indigenous British people seem increasingly resentful of immigrants and immigration.'

True, the reasons are complex, but they are largely genetic. People are different in important ways beyond language because their genes make them so. I don't think you've thought this through, so I'll stop here.
Don't react in terms of social desirability, look at the facts.

'My business leaders' are more economically savvy than yours'.

What next, James Dyson & Alan Sugar in mud? Live, on the Cromwell Road 48 sheet, funded by Ashcroft and Whelan?

Meanwhile, in another (barely reported, save Ch4) news, the leader of my country has been caught in his weekly lying through his capped teeth… again.

Another day, another committee. Personally, on recent evidence, anything that bills itself as independent when comprised of our MP classes is 'aving a larf. If not simply unqualified or incompetent, then simply the best money can buy.

It's April. And we're being taken for fools. Worse, many seem content to allow it.

'Mr Cameron said he hoped that a British equivalent of President Obama — who trained as a community organiser in Chicago — would, in time, go from the “back streets of Bradford or Bolton or Birmingham all the way to Downing Street”.

The Times, April Fool's Day, 2010

Grass roots activism is just anarchism (anti-statism). I don't know which is worse, more of this (which is why we are in this mess already, see Regional Development Agebncies, devolution, NUTS etc and the EU under New Labour) or the above crass electioneering. Why didn't he just say that he would like Britain to become more like Bangladesh, Nigeria or Pakistan, the Caribbean etc?

PS. See Detroit in the video.

Some readers will have to think carefully about this before responding to their own 'deep seated prejudices'.... ;-).

Here's a little, complicating, albeit controversial, context for last night's piece on the model Government of Rwanda:

'On 6 April 1994, a plane carrying both the Rwandan President Juvénal Habyarimana and Burundian President Cyprien Ntaryamira was shot down by a surface-to-air missile as it approached Kigali airport. All on board were killed. The deaths immediately sparked the Rwandan Genocide and an estimated 800,000 to 1,000,000 Rwandans were killed. Under the Arusha accords, the RPF had a small contingent of troops present in Kigali at the time. The outbreak of genocide ended what vestiges remained of the cease fire. The RPF, under the leadership of Kagame, proceeded to take control of the whole country. Kigali was captured July 4, 1994, bringing the downfall of the government of Jean Kambanda.[12]

Because three French citizens, crew members of the aircraft, died during the crash, an investigation was carried out by French judge Jean-Louis Bruguière, who controversially concluded that the shooting of the plane was ordered by Kagame. In November 2006 Judge Bruguière signed international indictments against nine of President Kagame's senior aides, and accused Kagame of ordering the assassination of the two African presidents. Kagame could not be indicted under French law, since as a head-of-state he had immunity from prosecution.'

Wikipedia on Paul Kagame, President of Rwanda

#67 Ben
Case well put, totally agree problem is integration not immigration. Colour has nothing to do with things.

But if things are not working, ---and they obviously are not, ---what is the point in increasing the numbers until the problem is solved?

Not a UKIP argument, just plain common sense.

Re last night, JP just about stopped a bun fight, but how better it might be if our interviewers/editors ? stopped trying to goad the poor MP's into getting a figure wrong, and practised their profession of investicative journalism.

Woolas has his script prepared on the numbers game, how more enlightening it might have been if JP had simply asked, "Are you happy with the situation as it stands ?" Instead of the lead off 3 million immigrants in 13 years, thus ignoring the theme of the intro film and the plight of the English speaking residents marooned in Tower Hamlets.

66

training FIRST before a licence is granted....

yes a licence linked to having done a course.

73. HughOldham 'Instead of the lead off 3 million immigrants in 13 years, thus ignoring the theme of the intro film and the plight of the English speaking residents marooned in Tower Hamlets.'

There was a consensus amongst the politicians that the one thing that they could not do was dictate how many children people could have. There was lots of head-nodding. This is probably now enshrined in one of the Articles of the Human Rights (the right to have a family, and the proscription of eugenics in Article II etc) within The Lisbon Treaty (red lines or not). The reality is that the PRC does exactly that, and that is the only way this problem could possibly be resolved. Failure to do so will result in a Bangladesh in Tower Hamlets and there are other boroughs not much different. This is not about racism, it's about demography and sustainable infrastructure/services, or 'carrying capacity'. People who get hot under the collar about racism etc need to look at the problems of Bangladesh, Pakistan, Nigeria etc and their population growth relative to that in Europe over the past half century of so. Education can not compensate. Tower Hamlets was the mode, area for that programme, under the now head of OFSTED. What happened, national standards have been lowered to make it look like attainment has risen. There is no empirical evidence that education per se raises innate ability, how could there be in fact? people have just not thought this through because they think and talk far too quickly to see the flaws these days.

67. ben66 ''Where I passionately believe..'

Enough of the 'passionately believe' nonsense. Something isn't truer because you use hyperbole! Anyway, how does anyone know how passionately you believe anything? How do even you know? Learn not to write this way, it's silly.

Privatisation of NHS by stealth? This is how anti-statism has been slowly engineered across Public Services over recent decades, as far back as the 80s (prisons, probation etc). Set up 'trusts' (or areas etc, as small as possible), devolve budgets, then hammer the devolved 'agency' with ever more stringent inspection regimes which are unrealistic so they can be opened up to competition with the Private Sector, all the time talking about efficiency and targets. It's use dto kill the state, or if you prefer, asset strip (because it has lots of public money from the past invested in it, it's like oil).

'Almost two dozen healthcare trusts across the country have been ordered to improve or face fines or even closure under a new regulatory system.'

The Times 1 April 2010

It's up to people to decide what they wnat, but they should know what they are getting - and that's essentially... 'ripped-off'.

74. jauntycyclist 'training FIRST before a licence is granted....

yes a licence linked to having done a course.'

And what does passing a course do other than select out people who should not have dogs? What about the dogs themsleves? Some dogs are model psychopaths. Training does not create nature, it selects and directs it.

You are still not questioning your preconceptions. Why? Are they dogmas? Prejudices?

down the dog and duck people are fed up being called xenophobe/racist/little englander by gordon/new labour if they talk about new labour's 12 years unlimited mass immigration policy openly designed to 'rub the british public's noses in multiculturalism'.

how many people above the unemployment level/housing stock do we need? they have no nation building science so they don't know.

as an indicator of the 'benefit' to the uk the two graphs one could look at are the immigration numbers and the money spent on internal security.

repression of the state? or criminal acts?

if i owned the coffee shop i would want the hooligan to get a stiff sentence.

..And what does passing a course do ...

so let abandon courses? like pilots/drivers licences, medical exams, food hygene, teaching, prison officers,

is this the state model you want to live in?

yes i am prejudiced in favour of the good. in favour of tests of comptence.

79. jauntycyclist 'how many people above the unemployment level/housing stock do we need? they have no nation building science so they don't know.'

What makes you think a Government which has been actively devolving to NI, Scotland, Wales and Regional Development Agencies and the EU wants to build a nation? Brown explicitly criticised xenophobia and protectionism/nationalism yesterday did he not? Look up what anarchism is, it requires strategy. You are not looking at what they are actually doing. You appear to mistakenly think that they are failing. In fact, their track record shows that they have been very successful in their anarchism (aka libertarianism). Some will vote for them again no doubt, especially grateful, albeit not too bright, child-like recent immigrants who will ignore anything which is not oicted at the level of a 10 year old as 'too complicated' (aka unfamiliar=wrong!)

It's a dirty game, and it counts on lots of not too bright people being seduced by their own nefarious rhetoric (thoughts/education) and hubrism.

..You appear to mistakenly think that they are failing...

no. they are succeeding in their bias and prejudices as i have said several times before about the reasons for their unlimited migration that goes back to the stuff i read in the 1970s but they are failing as regards a nation building science.

which i regard as a failure in terms of my bias and prejudice for the good.

Having seen it on this AM's news, I tried to get the quote from the risible BBC site search engine to no avail, but this will have to do (tad dated, so I doubt the situation has improved:

https://www.propertywire.com/news/europe/england-faces-severe-shortage-200909293539.html

In light of other current topics, from Mr. Brown's 'Rivers of ex-voters' speech to Mr. Miliband's 'we've met some guys who want us to give them more of your money', on matters of immigration, population and climate change ambition and joined up government, any input on why we need 250,000 extra homes/year, much less where these might end up, presumably consuming nothing at all and emitting only pixie dust?

81. jauntycyclist 'so let abandon courses? like pilots/drivers licences, medical exams, food hygene, teaching, prison officers,'

No, as I said, courses (exams etc) select people/behaviours. I also advised you to swot up on Frege.

'is this the state model you want to live in?'

No, and I suggest you just try listening to those who know better than you and follow up instead of arguing from false premises.

'yes i am prejudiced in favour of the good.'

No, you have an obsession with the mystical. With something you can magically make whatever you like. The danger with 'the good' is that all sorts of people will use that to justify whatever they like! You do not appear to see that one person's good is another person's bad and vice versa. Nor do you see why. This is why philosophy (and science) is so hard.

'in favour of tests of comptence.'

Fine, no problem, but that is assessment and selection of skills/behaviours.

What you need to grasp is where those skills come from and what they are. This is where the science begins. If you have not asked those questions, you have not begun.

79. jauntycyclist 'down the dog and duck people are fed up being...'

Do you really want a country which is run by what people down the dog and duck think and want? Isn't that a good reason why we are in such a mess? Populism (and inebriated populism too!)

I get the impression you may not like being told what to do.

See anarchistic.

#s 67 and 73; ben66 and hugholdham; well said and more power to your writing elbows; this is the sort of material NN's blog needs, rather than the pompous posturings of Stato and her/his/its claque; a universe more interesting than Mme mim's doggerel to boot.

I accept the points made about assimilation; it's difficult to avoid the chicken and the egg problem, however; immigrants have been "ghetto-ised" often because those "ghettoes" are the only locations they are welcome; and for two Frenchmen, for example, to speak french to each other when they meet in a shop or bar in Glasgow, for example, seems perfectly natural; when large groups of immigrants settle together, I can imagine the "french" scenario being quite off-putting for an indigenous dweller; the solution might be, of course, to do what my friend Jason did when finding his locale increasingly inhabited by Indian immigrants and that was to learn Urdu.

So maybe assimilation cuts both ways; chicken tikka masala anyone?

86.

you may not like being told what to do...

only from those who constantly tell everyone what to do? what kind of personality disorder is that?

85

which bit of dog licence is 'mystical'?

that is indeed mystifying.

we all know that in your world anyone with a bias for the good is called irrational if not a criminal. which is why you will need political gulags for your authoritarianism to work. no one would freely choose it. which is why they don't.

88. jauntycyclist 'only from those who constantly tell everyone what to do? what kind of personality disorder is that?'

It isn't a Personality Disorder, it's known as 'being better educated', i.e better empirically informed about matters of fact. Those who don't listen and learn just make life harder for themsleves by arguing against what is true. YOu may not have noticed but we have an endemic problem with behaviour. You keep demonstrating some of it, so I use that to make my point.

89. jauntycyclist 'which bit of dog licence is 'mystical'?

that is indeed mystifying.'

Only because you missed to point. The reference was to your persistently unexplicated/unexamined use of the term 'the good'. Religious wars have been fought over that for centuries. Will you learn.....?

'we all know that in your world anyone with a bias for the good is called irrational if not a criminal.'

No, we don't ALL know that. Otherwise I'd know that too. Some people may think that, namely one person, i.e. you. But you assert that as a defence against change. It's why you are not learning grass-hopper.

'which is why you will need political gulags for your authoritarianism to work.'

GULAG = prison for social exclusion. Yes, one does need to isolate people who won't conform. Otherwise one has anarchism, which is what we have now. That is pretty much the same as consumerism.

'no one would freely choose it. which is why they don't.'

The Chinese do. So you are wrong. Apart form 'the good', you need to look into 'free' and 'choose' These are weasel words. You have not examined them carefully enough. The essence of modern philosophy is to examine how language is used, i.e to examine one's assumptions and behaviour.

Just watched last night's Newsnight and thought the LibLabCon Alliance looked very shifty and evasive on immigration. One assumes they are trying to con the electorate and that the floodgates will be re-opened after the election. Token UKIP man didn't really get a word in.

Just as sinister was the article on students being jailed for protesting, the screws really do seem to be tightening. Add to that the Policeman found not guilty and the robbers who were found guilty, both without jury, and a very dark picture is beginning to emerge. If they'll do this before an election just imagine what is in store for us post election. It doesn't bear too much thinking about.

Let's hope people see the light in time and kick these political gangsters into touch.

87. kashibeyaz '#s 67 and 73; ben66 and hugholdham; well said and more power to your writing elbows; this is the sort of material NN's blog needs, rather than the pompous posturings of Stato and her/his/its claque;'

You are demonstrating your inability/reluctance to assimilate.

Statist

You Statist, the genocide in Rwanda wasn't tribal at all - the tribe thing was what the corrupt rulers used to instigate the atrocities, but at the bottom of it was money and a powerful family deterimined to serve their own interests.

You might want to read some of the books or articles written by Linda Malvern (think that is how you spell her name) who has worked hard at probing into the events.

I'd prefer a journalist if he were to get to the bottom of the issue to do a piece comparing and contrasting the differences in dealing with reconstruction after such terrible events. Perhaps, illuminating us on how Europe dealt with the aftermath of geneocide.

I'm not so sure 16 years is long enough, and when you consider many of those still responsible are just across the border, and while massacres of villagers in Congo are happening (using the same weapons) by the LRA, then really I'd agree with the idea that 'we are all Rwandans now'. Human Rights Watch doesn't seem to have alternative, workable proposals. If it were 60 years ago and there were still strict laws about some things then I'd be concerned. For now, it seems to me Rwanda is moving forward not spinning around on the same cycle or politics and violence, of murder it experienced for the decades before the genocide.

It would be a bit much for us in other countries to insist the way forward, since what did we do about the genocide? Never Again, looked very meaningless under the last Tory government.