5 live and the BBC Trust

I guess Moz Dee should know what he is talking about.

You call tell by Victoria Derbysires voice that she hates the whole process of a 5live review or online survey and has only contempt for listeners ( and it sounded like contempt for the BBC Trusts, Alison Hastings as well ) who feel 5live is not delivering the ' hard news ' service it once did ,instead of all the ' fluffy ' stuff we get now. There was absolutely no balance in the callers and just cherry picking texts or Facebook comments saying things like ' Derbyshire and Campbell are brilliant ' really doesn't do 5live any favours.Lets hope the BBC Trust and their survey aren't so complacent .Speaking down to and interrupting callers with a justified and critical point about 5live is no way to conduct an interview.Very poor interviewing by anyones standards.

Five key things.



1. 5Live's remit to provide continuous news and sport. No mention of entertainment.

2. 75% of the content should be news.

3. The BBC clearly has an extremely loose interpretation of "news" which I would hope submissions would zero in on.

4. It will be an evidenced based review, so allegedly an objective review, not a subjective analysis.

5. The review is not about the presenters, but about the editorial content. Therefore play the ball not the man if raising issues.

The presenters on Radio 5 Live, are giggling idiots. Victor Derbyshire, Peter Allen and Anna Foster should get on with the news, and forget the inane chatter.

What annoyed the other day was the fact that after playing a jingle for Victoria Derbyshire in the very next breath she said ' Hello this is 5live with Victoria Derbyshire... ' Enough already. What is it with all this constant telling of us of who they are all the while ? I only want the news , please just give me the news......!!

To be fair Binkie she did read out a text I sent in under my real name which was quite (!) a critical one. But as you say the number of idents both for the station and the presenters has gone off the scale, I think it is because the editors do not listen to the station between items so they lose sight of the fact they have told us it is 5Live 58 times an hour.

Unfortunately, the review of the BBC (5-Live) by the BBC will come to the same conclusion it always does - everything's fine, but pay a bit more attention to x or y, which they won't. Then onto the next. These things (the decline of editorial standards etc.) are best seen in the lomg term. e.g. Salford (post Thompson) will be called a mistake, until then it's a triumph.

Sadly I think you are going to be correct Welcome2theMachine.



We see a perfect example of this is how the BBC Trust addressed the recent legitimate TalkSport complaint with the Trust rejecting it outright.



Before acknowledging that what is classified as news needs to be reviewed, not least of which because Richard Bacon's programme is classified as 100% news which we all know is twaddle.



It would have been more helpful for the Trust to look at the classification of news, realise it is ludicrously loose, revise the standards, uphold TalkSport's complaint and insist that 5Live gets back to what it is _supposed_ to be delivering.



Instead this obfuscation doesn't deliver for license fee payers, at worst it delays any prospect of 5Live returning to its programming remit (75% news) and at worst it gets buried in the BBC bureaucracy.



It is important that the Trust not only addresses what is classified as news but also over what period the 75% quota is calculated, I would hope this is on a daily or weekly basis at worst.

Can I express my surprise that this blog comment page is still open?

I wondered if I had heard the supposedly impartial 5live BBC news bulletin this morning correctly, when reporting on the local elections the newsreader said with such glee and venom that ' the LibDems had taken a right good kicking...' Blimey is this really the Sony UK station of the year ? 5live journo's you should hang your head in shame.

I was surprised to hear Victoria Derbyshire report that 5Live costs 'each licence fee payer 4p per week'. The official method of expressing the figure is 2.3p per listener hour. (Source: BBC Annual Report.)



(For comparison, other costs per listener hour for the network radio stations are: R1 is 0.6p, R1 Xtra is 3.6p, R2 is 0.5p, R3 is 6.3p, R4 is 1.3p, R4Extra is 1.7p, R5 Sports Extra is 2.2p, 6Music is 2.7p, and Asian Network is 8.5p.)



Russ

To be honest Russ VD may sound a bit of an authority on everything and likes to think she sounds as though she knows what she is talking about but trust me I see very little evidence of that.



Btw I've just realised why 5live appears to have it in for the tories and particularly the LibDems...the well,paid at 5live must be paying the 50p higher rate of tax while low and middle income earners have had their personal tax allowance raised and receive £200 extra a year.

May I just say, for a station like talkSPORT to complain about the content of 5live is... interesting, to say the least. Remember, this (talkSPORT) is a station that has had to dismiss at least 2 broadcasters (James Whale and Jon Gaunt) for breach of regulations. This may not necessarily negate the legitimacy of their complaint about 5live staying true to it's remit, but I can't help but think the complaint comes from a position of self-interest rather than genuine concern for listeners or correct practice. Remember talkSPORT has already broken 5live's monopoly of EPL commentary (a real shame I must say) and would love to be able to see 5live reduce the amount of live coverage further.



We all know 5live isn't perfect, but is still a thousand times the quality of a joke of a station of talkSPORT, a broadcaster whose content and quality leaves a lot to be desired.

There have been quite a few other presenters besides the two you mention who have been booted off TS for overstepping the mark and quite frankly I can't listen to the dire and tedious almost non stop footie chat broadcast there now.There is a review of the 5live licence every 5 years which has more to do with that than complaints from TS.

Agree totally Binkie. It seems most of talkSPORT's presenters are either washed-up shock jocks or professional wind-up merchants whos only real interest is to be as deliberately confrontational as possible.



Things have gotten so bad there a couple of their presenters have either defected to the BBC or resigned outright.



5live at least has a more balanced and grown-up approach to both news and sport journalism, and that is one of the benefits of it being a publicly funded station with an obligation to impartiality.

yy

Mannanon, you are spot on, when Moz Dee was in charge of 5live, the same things he is complaining now, he actively encouraged during his tenure in the job, he put this question to the Trust " ...are interviews with TV stars, a presenter anecdote about a promise made under the influence of alcohol and a football phone-in suggesting that Millwall be banned from FA Cup, the job of a BBC news channel with an annual budget of £72m? Is Radio 5 Live even a news channel?" yet again during his tenure he used to encourage exactly these things!!



So in effect Moz Dee is accusing 5live of dumbing down, yet when he left 5live the following quote was attributed to him:



""I get a bit angry with people's view of what populist is," says Dee. "It doesn't mean being stupid or lowest common denominator, it means being relevant and communicating with the audience about things that concern them."

Being deliberately confrontational seems to sum up Robbie Savage. He adopts this stance because he usually hasn't anything else to say. His contribution to 6 0 6 this evening has been pathetic. Sell him to Talksport

It is almost impossible to listen to 606 with Robbie Savage for just a few seconds without thinking.. am I tuned to Talksport ? I don't want the BBC's own 5live being dragged down to that level is my main concern and grievance but it appears to be going that way unless someone makes a decision to reverse that trend.

I must say some of the choices this year have been appalling in the sports department.



Graham Taylor is a brilliant and intelligent analyst I would prefer listening to his insights than suffering Savage. Let's hope he isn't involved in the FA Cup final.



Massively overrated.

Reference ryanw's mention in #3 of "No mention of entertainment", 5Live's current service licence does state, in the section on 'stimulating creativity and cultural excellence', it should "contribute to this purpose amongst its audience by reflecting significant developments in the arts, and by reporting and reflecting on the theatre, film, music, art, books, television and radio."



I can't see much 5Live programming dedicated to this purpose, nor is there any mention of this purpose in the Trust's review survey. This would indicate either that 5Live is planning to ditch that particular service requirement or is embarrassed to draw attention to it.



Personally, I think it is a service purpose adequately covered by Radios 3 and 4.



Russ

Fortunately Russ, we have the prestigious Heat magazine to provide us with "significant developments in the arts, and by reporting and reflecting on the theatre, film, music, art, books, television and radio."

So Carrie would you be happy if the Trust ruled in favour of talkSPORT,thus forcing 5live to broadcast more news programmes, which in turn will lead to talkSPORT taking a large chunck of 5lives Premiership football rights?



Surely you dont want talkSPORT to snap up the footy rights, 5lives football coverage is exceptional, if it did happen i can forsee a massive revolt.

The footy coverage may be very good, I don't think exceptional, but until Colin Murray and Robbie Savage are off air for good I will continue to avoid most of it. Now Savage has retired you can look forward to more of the same stuff he spouts every week. He is the kind of person former Radio 5 employee Moz Dee should actually employ for the dire Talksport.



Yes I do want more (proper) news programmes. They don't have to be in place of all the football but they could be in place of all the football related rot which encroaches in to Breakfast, Victoria Derbyshire, anything with Riley on it, Drive and Livesey. That all these programmes are ostensibly news and feature programmes and not football/sport programmes shows the dearth of news and features, that their editors and producers can allow endless phone ins and post mortem on every match which they happen to think was important. That is, any match involving Manchesters United or City, Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea.

What happened to 5Live Investigates? Why is NOTHING ever announced on this blog? Mens Hour is a very poor substitute. 5Live Investigates was an excellent addition to the schedule.



Also, I think it would be good to know how many people work for 5Live Interactive and what they do...

Carrie, I second your comments re Savage and Murray. Colin Murray especially is too shouty and tabloid-esque for what I think is otherwise excellent sports programming. Mark Pougatch and Eleanor Aldroyd are under-used, despite being excellent broadcasters.



And as for a certain individual's (who shall remain nameless..) fascination with the Popular and Prestigious Heat Magazine - enough already! Neither do I need to hear about your mates on Tw*tter, thanks. You are meant to be a serious presenter, not having a 'laff' with your buddies. If I wanted to listen to that I'd tune in to talkSPORT...

The talkSport agenda is blatant, but at least give them credit for not disguising it. They want to persuade the Trust that 5Live should spend more time on 'serious' news. That would entail more money being spent on that aspect, and hence would mean less money for the Premiership and Championship football coverage rights, which talkSport would be only too happy to snatch up. Secondly, even if the Trust were to take on board the 'more serious news' aspect, it would find itself running up against the remit of Radio 4.



One thought though: if there is a threat to 5Live, it will not come from the Trust or another radio station - it will come from within the BBC management (plus its myriad of feed production companies) itself. The public consultation is a side-show when it comes to what goes into a station's Service Licence - the substantive input will be from the Executive, and that will be kept under wraps.



Russ



P.S. I suspect I am missing an in-joke amongst you 5Live-ers about 'Heat' magazine. (I listen to 5Live only for the footie.)

Nice to read this morning an endoresment of my comments on Saturday of Savage's woeful contribution to 6-O-6.



Charles Sale in The Daily Mail - who generously describes Savage as a journeyman footballer - also felt his arrogant and self congratulatory tone made for poor listening. As an update on my thoughts, I was pleased show host Mark Chapman let Savage squirm his way through some belligerant questioning by a Stockport supporter on why he and fellow professionals put so little back into the game. Savage even had the cheek to claim his 'media work' was his way of putting something back. As if he's not getting paid. Another bad error of judgement AVK. The list is growing.

Russ, Richard Bacon always introduces anyone from Heat as being "from the prestigious Heat magazine" when they are on his show. Mostly Boyd Hilton but others also appear. Trouble is, he isn't being ironic, he loves gossip and entertainment trivia and somehow believes that this stuff can be accepted as news content by the Trust.



You are right about the secret feedback though, but until AV-K accepts he has allowed the dumbing down of the station and told us the listeners what the individual listening figures are, we will never know where the magic 7 million are listening on the stats list. I suspect Livesey's figures have gone up for example, because football listeners leave the radio tuned because frequently there is an extra half hour of football chat after a big game.



It is no coincidence that Moz Dee and Bob Shennan changed 5 Live irreparably and now they are both on stations where what your presenters say (apart from Vine's show) doesn't really matter.

All the crowing about 7 million listeners is a smokescreen.



I think part of this debate needs to be about the ambition for 5Live. 'Success' under the current regime seems to be defined a ratings and accessibility. So we get personality and popularism over substance and authority.



The qualitative benchmark needs to be raised and means the likes of Savage and Bacon need to seriously lift their game and there needs to be a clearout of producers who think serving up this pap is clever.



In Australia for example, the ABC has a radio station called NewsRadio -- it is among the lowest rating and has low time spent listening -- it is a continuous rolling news service which also carries sport. 5Live has a broader programming lineup, NewsRadio has nowhere near as much interactivity and almost no trival entertainment news. It has a loyal following and provides a valuable service as part of the portfolio of radio stations within the national broadcaster.



Commercial stations, from two companies, complement NewsRadio with their unique opinion-lead News-talk format nationally, Macquarie with 2GB/3MP and Fairfax for 4BC/2UE/3AW etc.



This combination provides a great radio service to the people of Australia.



The UK badly needs a commerical News-Talk network.



5Live needs to return to its roots and stop chasing the populism agenda and ditch big personalities for intelligent quality broadcasters.

Re: #30. So ryanw wants 5 live to be like ABC's NewsRadio, a station that hardly anyone listens to. How very peculiar!



As for the UK badly needing "a commercial News-Talk network", perhaps you could persuade TalkSport to change their format and fulfil that role....

Dave, I believe talkSPORT started out as talkradio, and was exclusively a news/talk radio station.



Perhaps talkSPORT could do us a favour and revert to being a purely talk-based station, and leave the sports coverage to the professionals, ie 5live.

Dave, I don't think 5Live should mimic NewsRadio but I do think some the fluff and trivial nonsense needs to be eradicated. By broad point which you didn't grasp is that perhaps the BBC shouldn't put ratings ahead of everything else, in the same way you wouldn't find Big Brother on BBC1.



To draw a further television analogy, I'd like to see 5Live more like BBC4 but it's growing increasing like BBC3.

I should like to comment.

However, I do not like to mix with the people who post on this blog.

One cannot fail to notice that 5 live has many, many listeners, and yet on this blog are people who will depress you with their grumbling.

I love 5 live. I would like a place to express the pleasant opinion I have.

I think that this blog is not the place to do it.

Local ABC in Australia is very interesting, some local stuff intermeshed with national. Anyway I get the point about quality and not quantity that ryanw means.



Hello coreze. Write to 5 Live on their 'contact us" page and then you can tell them how you feel.

Completely agree with ryanw (no.30 & 33). If you're at a loose end tonight & fancy a laugh - the Sonys are streamed

Was Victoria Derbyshire interviewing a hooker this morning ? I didn't stay around long enough too listen.Oh yes the Sonys I might have a peak.I believe Robbie Savage is up for an award.Which tells you all you need to know about the standards you have to aspire too, to be given one or even be nominated.

No doubt you'll all be delighted that Robbie Savage has just picked up a Sony.



(Now where's those smilies when you need them most?)



Russ

Sony should give themselves an award for the most embarrassing and tackiest ceremony ever ........ ..and thats a compliment !!! What are they on ?

Err, when it comes to embarrassment, the big news story of the Sony Awards night was the Guardian inadvertently publishing the full list of the winners before the news embargo time was up. In the ten or so minutes it took the Guardian to realise its mistake, dear Google had taken a snapshot of the Media Guardian page, and the tweets rapidly rolled out on who the winners were - before the winners were announced.



Oooops.



Russ

Now surely everyone can believe the awards are fixed. How to further lower the credibility of an award without even trying very hard. Fact is, he doesn't need a phone in caller, just throw him a subject and let him shout for 45 minutes.

The awards are put firmly in context when you read that TalkSPORT has won the Sony Award of Station of the Year: "Talksport exhibits a strong confidence and clear sense of purpose as to who its audience is and how it wants to reach them. Every programme has direction and a passion and excitement for sport that other stations often lack. With its coverage of major sporting events on limited budgets, the Judges felt talkSport displayed impressive achievement in 2010 and as such unanimously agreed that is it a worthy recipient of Station of the Year."



As I say every year, its a take it in turns award no matter who you are. The in crowd vote for each other and so it goes on.



Let's hear the opinions of all those pro-Sony Awards anti-TalkSPORT bloggers now please.

I think Savage's award is voted by the public. Be very interesting to see the figures but whatever, if the voting process for that award is correct, it says something about the listenership of 606 I guess.

I wonder who won the mini? It is a farce.



"The award is voted for by the public, so the better known names will invariably attract the most votes. Especially if you are football phone-in host Savage, busy urging his 237,000 Twitter followers to vote for him, and mentioning someone's offer of a Mini to one lucky punter who can prove they voted for him if/when he wins."



https://www.guardian.co.uk/media/mediamonkeyblog/2011/apr/25/media-monkey-diary



0 credibility and unethical.

Meanwhile, "the most democratic station in the country" again proves its commitment to a balanced debate.



"UTV boss Scott Taunton has been critical of BBC Radio 5 Live's output of late and was lined up to go on the station along with BBC trustee Alison Hastings to discuss its future and whether it broadcasts enough news and minority sport. Alas, the Taunton invite failed to materialise, with the BBC apparently keen to give Hastings the opportunity to speak to as many listeners as possible. "Scott was never definitely fixed as a guest," said a corporation insider"



https://www.guardian.co.uk/media/mediamonkeyblog

I very much enjoy the 5live programs such as fighting talk and Tony Livesy.

I know the new studio is in Manchester but why must texts and callers from Manchester always be read and put through more than anywhere else it becomes quite annoying hearing "from Manchester" constantly.

A day isn't complete unless Dave from Liverpool, 'phones in.

And that Welsh bloke who was on again last night going on about scrapping the NHS, he is on so often.