| You are in: Talking Point | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Monday, 12 August, 2002, 09:36 GMT 10:36 UK Legionnaires' outbreak: Your reaction An elderly man has died and 15 people are in intensive care following the outbreak of Legionnaires' disease in Barrow-In-Furness, Cumbria. The flu-like illness is treatable with antibiotics but fatal in about one in seven cases. Of the 92 people confirmed as having the disease, all are said to be responding well to treatment. However, although the crisis may not be as big as originally feared, uncertainty remains. The regional director of public health says the source of infection is likely to be an air-conditioning unit at a council-run arts centre. But the 88-year-old man who died had not been to the arts centre in the last month and 130 other sites are being investigated. Are you affected by the outbreak? What would make you feel safer? This debate is now closed. Read a selection of your comments below. Your reaction I have worked as a water treatment engineer for 13 years now, and the regulations are laid down for us and the owners to follow, making wet cooling systems reasonable safe, if the regulations are followed. It doesn't surprise me anymore with what happens in Barrow-in-Furness. Because the Council do their own thing anyway, they were elected in by the people and when the people object to things they ride rough-shod over them. I am glad that people with Legionella have rallied round to sue the council, although if they get anywhere I will be surprised, because they blame everybody else but themselves. The public is entitled to be protected from known risks such as the Legionella Bacteria and there are laws in place that require directors and managers to conduct risk assessments and take precautions against known problems such as the Legionella bacteria. The courts take such incidents very seriously. What is puzzling me right now is if the gentleman who died has had no contact with the area involved in this outbreak and is listed as an isolated case, then where did he pick it up from? Obviously there are more sources than just this one. The reports say the council are investigating another 130. I think, as residents of the town, we should be made aware of these areas for our own safety! In a time when we are preparing for biological attacks from terrorist groups, why is it acceptable for organisations not to maintain equipment and poison our own population?
Pamela Goeminne, England Let's use our corporate manslaughter laws and take some bean counters to jail. It seems that in the UK today, if you are not a CEO or do not earn more than a couple of million a year no-one cares about you.
Derek Russell, England I moved from Barrow nearly 18 months ago, the main reason being the poor housing and employment for myself and my children. It is a well known fact that the local council's spending priorities leave a sour taste in a lot of mouths in the community. I hate to be the bringer of ill tidings, but we had better get prepared for bigger outbreaks of diseases, and less treatable ones than LD. Due to the overuse of antibiotics, there are now many strains of bacteria all over the world which have bred immunity to most antibiotics. Expect a comeback of diseases that we thought would never return. I am very proud of the manner in which Furness General Hospital and the Health and Safety Agencies have responded to this outbreak. I work in Barrow, and I have been impressed by how quickly and efficiently they have responded. Every potential source of infection is being investigated, however remote.
Terry Jones, England One must wonder, once again, how money played an important part in the maintenance of plant and equipment. No one listens to engineers - accountants rule. It is unlikely criminal charges will be brought against individuals, as this has not occurred even in the recent railway accidents. Anti- Legionella control methods are well understood. Has this building a directly employed team or an external contractor for building services maintenance? This should be a case of corporate manslaughter. How many more innocent people have to die before this type of installation is banned? As a former water treatment consultant I am very puzzled about why the open loop heat-rejection system (an open water based evaporator) was not treated to avoid infestation with the causative agent for Legionnaires' disease, a simple bacterium. As a one time professional microbiologist I know that there is water treatment chemicals specifically designed to deal with this exact issue. What has happened, in my humble opinion, amounts to an open and shut case of criminal negligence. Under the requirements of the current Health and Safety Commissions Approved Code of Practice (L8) - for the control of legionella bacteria, building owners and managers must carry out a comprehensive 'legionellosis risk assessment' (every 24 months as a minimum) in order to help prevent situations like the one seen in Cumbria. The risk assessment report must include a written scheme for controlling the potential risk of Legionnaires' disease on an ongoing basis and records of all checks and inspections must be kept for routine inspection by local environmental Health Officers or by Health & Safety Executive inspectors.
Mark, USA Another British case of negligence and incompetence. If this was anywhere else in Europe hundreds of executives and government officials would be in the dock for corporate manslaughter or at least sacked and disgraced. Here, we shuffle the blame round and round and no-one ever is held accountable for their actions. Those people who are quick to complain about the NHS might care to reflect that only two years ago Barrow and Lancaster Hospitals had a big increase in intensive care unit beds and staff. This has meant the outbreak can be handled locally with the optimum level of care. Still think the 20 year old problems of the NHS can't be solved by "throwing money at it"?? Health and safety laws require that the operators of any factory or office or similar should provide a safe environment. It's time to see the people negligent in this case put in jail for this avoidable loss of life. It has been known for years that 'air conditioning water cooling tanks' can be a prime breeding ground for Legionnaires disease. This is a situation where someone has not been doing their job properly, and at the least that person or persons should be fired. Our prayers go to those affected with the disease and their loved ones. Cooling systems that rely on water as a method for heat transfer are outdated. The engineering alternative is to use "Dry" systems, these do not have the potential to cause the spread of Legionella. Despite "wet" cooling towers requiring registration they still can be used. The control of Legionella thus relies upon the operator of such systems to use appropriate measures to control the bacteria. Is it now time to introduce legislation to "time expire" such systems rather than rely on an albeit excellent Code of Practice ? I live in Barrow, Walney island to be precise, which is an island separated from Barrow by a bridge. I and many others on the island will not be going over the bridge to the town centre for a long time. This will effect trade in the market areas of the town. A punishing blow just when the effects of foot and mouth were becoming history. It has already been commented on that this was down to poor maintenance. No doubt nobody will take the blame for this, each blaming the other. In any country, other than the UK, people would be brought up on charges for this. I suspect that whoever is responsible will be �transferred sideways� other than sacked and prosecuted, as they should be. England, land of blinkers and denial.
Jean, England Every office that has lifts has to have them inspected periodically by law... Why aren't their air conditioning and other water systems checked for Legionnaires' too? John Brownlee refers to Legionnaires' disease as a virus. Fortunately for all of us, LD is not a virus, it is a bacterium which is much more easily treated. Viri are far less easy to deal with - HIV being a topical case in point - and if Legionnaires' disease were a virus rather than a bacterium we would have cause for serious concern about our ability to get rid of it. Can it be that modern air conditioning systems are a breeding ground for this disease and that insufficient guidance is given to ensure that the water vapour they pump out is not loaded with this virus?
Surely this is one of the most easily prevented diseases around? Air conditioning systems and cooling towers should be checked just as other aspects of public buildings are checked. There's truly no excuse for an outbreak of this sort. Just to put Peter Haymes mind at ease, no, there is no health risk from his car air conditioning -- car systems are sealed to the atmosphere, and use proprietary freon substitutes as the heat-exchanging fluid, not water, and so do not provide an environment conducive to bacterial growth. Are air conditioning systems in cars potential sources of the infection? If they are is the normal servicing in the garage sufficient to establish any risk? There are strict Health and Safety codes of practice for the control of legionella. Can we now expect the sacking or prosecution or both of the officials concerned in this Local Authority? The regional Director of health put the cause down to inadequate maintenance of the a/c unit at Forum 28. How about those responsible for overseeing the maintenance - not the contractor - is terminated with loss of all pension privileges. Thus those replacing the terminated would make very sure that they did their job to the full. This is a crime with many victims and few perpetrators. |
See also: 02 Aug 02 | Health 02 Aug 02 | Health Internet links: The BBC is not responsible for the content of external internet sites Top Talking Point stories now: Links to more Talking Point stories are at the foot of the page. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Links to more Talking Point stories |
![]() | ||
| ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To BBC Sport>> | To BBC Weather>> | To BBC World Service>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- © MMIII | News Sources | Privacy |