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| | Wednesday, 29 January, 2003, 11:38 GMT Do you back Budge Pountney?  Former Scotland rugby union captain Budge Pountney is set to announce his retirement, blaming the SRU's "unprofessionalism". Is Pountney's decision justified? Budge Pountney walked out of a Scotland training session on Monday, in protest at poor organisation at Murrayfield. The decision comes just two weeks after Pountney underwent an operation to remove a testicle. The 29-year-old suffered a kick to the groin while playing for Northampton against London Irish on 4 January, and the injury is thought to be a contributory factor in his decision. But he has spoken out strongly against the Scottish Rugby Union, accusing them of treating players like "second-class citizens". Do you back Budge's walk-out? This debate is now closed. A selection of your e-mails appear below. I think this may have been a result of Budge talking to his fellow team players at Northampton such as Matt Dawson and Ben Cohen and him thinking, why don't I have that sort of treatment in the Scottish set up? But I do also feel that he may being over reacting because of his illness.
Robert Wilson, England Yes we support Budge and we value him as a great player down at the Saints and hope he will be there for many years. Come on you Saints! Budge has cut off his nose to spite his face. He is not Scottish but has been given he chance to play international rugby. In Roy Keane style he has quit at a crucial time and I am amazed at the response of the Scots who have written in support of him. And on the subject of the SRU going 'cap in hand' to get him to come back? I wonder if Clive Woodward would grovel to an England player if he quit in such a public way? I don't think so I think he has done Scotland proud and I think we should back Pountney's decision. So I say to the big man do what you think is best for Scotland and for yourself. As a Scot I feel disappointed that Budge has made this decision, but it's clearly not a decision he would have made without good reason. We don't have enough players of real class who are eligible to play for Scotland so it's up to the SRU to make sure the players are happy. I agree with Iain K, the SRU need to start grovelling to get Budge back. I back Budge 100%. It's obvious that things at the SRU are not as well run as they should be. Organisation used to be what gave Scotland ability to compete against the bigger rugby nations, England and France. And now we are not as organised as they are. The consequences are there for all to see.
I hope that the members of the "old farts" of the SRU learn from this outcome but sadly I feel it will be 'water off a ducks back'. I have had the good fortune to meet Budge and consider him to be a gentleman of the highest order. If Budge felt the need to take the drastic action that he has taken then it behoves all of us to listen. The SRU have listed an "occasion here" and an "occasion there" where things could have been better, suggesting that Budge may have taken things too personally. I believe that the incidents Budge mentioned were probably only a few of many examples that irritate the Scottish national squad unnecessarily. The SRU chairman is correct in one statement, the SRU MUST improve its communication with its players, but it must also take action to rectify the problems raised. I recall a certain captain of England in the 80's citing the English setup as a bunch of 'old farts". Sadly it would appear that the SRU have not learned the lesson and have slowly become just that. Well done to Budge for attempting to move their archaic mentality into the future. I would like to say that I am very disappointed in the response from the SRU. I have supporting Scottish rugby for well over 25 years and have attended many games at Murrayfield.
The response from the SRU was typically defensive, they will never say that they were in the wrong, penny pinching for a �7.50 tie is just a joke. On the field our players give their all but you can spot the difference between England and Scotland before the game kicks off. We look unprofessional and when faced with teams from the southern hemisphere and England we crumble. They fully embrace the professional era and give their players whatever they need to win, Scotland does not; it all comes down to money and the inability to produce a coherent league structure that enables talented Scots to shine. Budge was a fully committed player every time he played for Scotland, whatever he has to say about the game should be taken into account. Pountney's comments are pretty damming on the SRU set-up. The reply so far primarily silence to underline's Pountneys argument. There has been a lot of talk that David Sole announced his early retirement due to similar reasons. Only for the efforts of Warren Gatland were Ireland saved from the Blazer Brigade. I am in total support of Pountney's decision to make a stand. With some experience of senior level rugby myself I can completely understand how irritating the various blazer-wearing hangers on and so-called committee men can be. There is definitely a destinction between the two types of off-the-pitch personnel, and many do an excellent job and are totally committed to the cause and the best results for the their respective team.
Others however, are nearly men / has-beens who are wrapped up in their own importance and milk their 'positions' for everything they can. It's not a question of Pountney being too big headed or arrogant, it seems that he has put up with short sighted jobsworths too long and they have seemingly lost sight of what is important - supporting the team effort and achieving Scottish victories by what ever means at their disposal. This does not mean throwing money at a situation but realising their place in the overall machine. NOT a club where admission is based on X number of years service and after that they have a divine right to ride a freebee gravy train for themselves and their pals. Let's remember - the players win the games and let's give them all the support they need. Scottish rugby fans can only thank Pountney for leading from the front as team captain. His commitment on the pitch has been colossal. It is long past falling-on-swords time for the "old farts" at the SRU. If there is not a shake-up and a total re-organization of the set-up, Scotland will cease to be relevant in international rugby. The "blazers" should give way to a new SRU in step with the times of professional rugby. It's up to Budge what he does and people should respect him whatever he does. In the professional era Scotland should get with the times. Everything I read about the saga smacks of what England went through with the "old farts" of the RFU. The administration should wake up and treat the players correctly. Unfortunately, the blazers have been milking the system for so long it will take a change of guard to reach their senses.
He's quite right. A lot of people will question his commitment because he isn't actually Scottish, but he always gave 200% and captained our country with great pride. The SRU have a lot of questions to answer. I predict a tight lipped response. Regarding Budge Pountney, I can see both sides of the argument. If you are a pro player, there should be someone else taking care of all the 'admin' so that you concentrate on playing the game. Since the game has turned pro, there has been an explosion in the number of 'hangers on' around teams, so it beggars belief that a senior player has to go hunting for kit or water. There is a deep suspicion in Scotland that the SRU is still run by a bunch of Will Carling style 'old farts' who have no qualifications to run the game, yet get all the perks. It is like an exclusive gentleman's club run for their benefit. It's time there was a cull of these chinless wonders. Seven plus years after the game went pro, Scotland is still grappling with the implications. I think the District route was the correct, but politically difficult, route (can you imagine Melrose or Boroughmuir in the Heineken Cup being hammered every year?). Edinburgh and Glasgow have had reasonable seasons this year and things are bedding down. But we won't become a big power until the SRU tackles the dominance of football here. Things are changing, but it takes time. More needs to be done in schools and clubs need to take more responsibility. I think Scotland will show how much they have progressed in this Six Nations. We have a set of forwards to rival most nations now. We just need to sort out the back play. Budge's do or die attitude will be missed, but there are other good replacements.
First off, Budge Pountney has been an outstanding player for Scotland in recent seasons and I think all Scotland fans owe Budge a big thanks for his contribution. Scotland will miss his ability to regain possession of the rugby ball at crucial times in the contact situation. As for the tie issue, well done for giving your tie to a youngster but why kick up a fuss about it, pay the �7.50 for a new tie as it was your decision to give the tie away. The SRFU has to be tight with the budget as they don't have unlimited funds and it is good to see them sticking to principles so Scottish rugby doesn't go bankrupt! The fact there was no water available at training is a disgrace and in some ways bringing it to public knowledge helps as it shows the SRFU have work to do in modern professional rugby. Although a quite word in Geech's ears may have been more appropriate. Whoever's side you are on, everyone has lost out. Bad publicity for the SRFU and Budge misses out on the World Cup - unless he has a change of heart which hopefully he does - and the Scotland side is weaker as a result! Well done SRU, you've done it again! That is, appeared like an outdated, bureaucratic, blazer bound 'organisation' that thinks it's still in the amateur era. Is it any wonder the team struggles despite the magnificent quality of its players and coaching staff if they are made to feel like lowly underlings who must ask 'Oliver Twist'-like for a pint from the SRU after beating a Tri Nations team.
Show more respect for these players, SRU! I hope Budge will reconsider in time and return to the Scottish fold, but if not, all the best to him and much appreciation for his sterling service for his adopted country. I may be wrong Paul C from Scotland (below), but is Rob Wainwright not actually Scottish? It seems to me that rugby players talk too much about professionalism. It is an overused word which has lost meaning. Isn't this just another way of saying that the SRU have bad coaches, managers and administrators? There are bad bosses in all fields of life. Perhaps a good many of the Scottish rugby players of recent years could be described as unprofessional given their poor level of performance and general skills! I don't think we can really judge whether the SRU are really as bad as Budge says from the outside. They may be incompetent or it may be simply something more personal. Some of his comments don't seem to ring true. After all anyone who has watched a rugby match at any professional level has seen a cast of thousands bringing on drinks throughout the game. In order to be successful the SRU needs to be better than the rest and I'm sure there is room for improvement but I just wonder whether Budge's heart was really in it any more given his recent injury. I am disgusted by the SRU's inability to adjust to the professional aspects of today's game. To lose a truly inspirational player by failing to provide even basic facilities is appalling.
Budge's disillusionment with the set-up controlling Scotland's rugby is by no means isolated. I wonder what squad morale is like at the moment and how the team will perform during the forthcoming Six Nations? I'll be surprised if we do better than beat Wales and Italy. Like Roy Keane, he may well be right but, unfortunately, also like Roy Keane, the timing and the manner of his exit leave a lot to be desired. Scottish rugby is in a disastrous condition - just look at the Celtic League and European Cup - no Scottish teams reached the last eight. Murrayfield deserves the European final but the IRB will not give it to Scotland for the fear of a low attendance from local support. Not the case in Dublin - the 6000 tickets released for general sale were sold out in three hours. Scottish rugby needs to take a long hard look at itself and decide whether it wants to compete or become a Division Three country like Italy. If the reasons he left are the reasons the SRU have cited then it is very hard to back him. There has to be more to it than a bar tab and a �7.50 tie. This is very petty. It is of course the SRU's fault but hardly a reason to give up the game at the highest level. The terrible injury he suffered the other week surely has something to do with it and the seeming lack of direction Scotland are showing. If the problems are there then get them out in the open; tell everyone exactly what is wrong with the set-up and let the powers that be sort it out. Scotland have to learn from this or the future will look very bleak for the men in blue. I wish players would stop whingeing and acting like spoilt brats. I'm sure that Budge Poutney earns enough money to buy his own and the rest of the Scotland team drinks for an evening! He is in a privileged position and should not throw his toys out of the pram because someone else won't pay for his drink. He's supposed to be a professional athlete anyway - how can he justify drinking alcohol? Once again it's the people who "run" the sport who are running it into the ground. How on earth do these people get into these jobs? What qualifications do they have? The SRU are a complete disgrace. As an avid Scotland fan, I feel embarrassed that we can have such an inefficient, uncompromising and totally ineffective group of people in charge of the future of Scottish rugby.
We need a shake up in the SRU, a lot of whom are unwanted, unappreciated and would be better away from the game. We need fresh new ideas and start treating our players with the respect and humility they deserve. The SRU should go cap in hand to Budge, say sorry, resolve the issues and ask him to play again. Unfortunately the SRU would never do anything as sensible as that in a month of Sundays. The SRU has some brilliant coaches, but some terrible old-fashioned attitudes in its hierarchy. Budge is not the type of guy to quit unless something was drastically wrong. He is the type who puts his body on the line every time he plays. For him to quit international rugby there must be something really wrong with the SRU. Budge should name and shame the people who are causing these problems within the Scotland set-up. Clearly he has no gripe with McGeechan or Telfer, but who is it that should deliver the water or buy the studs? That is much more serious than a few pounds for a tie or a beer in my view. Budge has been a fantastic player for Scotland and I feel we'll be hard pushed to replace him with Martin Leslie approaching the end of his career. Fair dues to Budge - anything that highlights the ridiculous attitudes of the current SRU can't hurt, although his loss from the side will be a heavy one to bear for the forthcoming year in the Six Nations and World Cup. I too hope that a large degree of grovelling goes on to get him to return, provided that it's matched by some change in attitude. For years the "Scotland" team has been populated by the likes of Pountney, Wainwright and a whole host of Antipodeans whose connection to their "adopted country" is dubious. The adoption of the Scottish colours as a flag of convenience by these mercenaries has resulted in a lack of passion and, coupled with the shambolic greed of the SRU in charging astronomical prices at Murrayfield, has resulted in a drop in interest among the Scottish public. Could anyone have imagined empty seats at Murrayfield for a World Cup match 10-15 years ago? The administrators of the game are soft targets - unpaid amateurs who are doing what they think is best for the game. Sure, they are sometimes unprofessional (isn't that what amateur means?) and their best efforts will sometimes irritate the overpaid prima donnas who think they know better.
But mercenaries like Pountney should just be thankful they have been given an unmerited opportunity to enjoy international rugby. Has Pountney now injured Scottish hopes in the Six Nations? Not one jot - we didn't have a prayer with him in the team, we don't have a prayer with him gone! Good riddance Budge! Budge has given great service to Scotland and I have enjoyed watching him play. I do, however, think it is wrong to air these matters in public when on the whole they are whinges about money. His concern about lack of water is, according to the SRU, a mistake where water was delivered to the wrong team - how can the SRU not recognise their own side!? I don't agree with the Roy Keane analogies: David Sole is a better analogy. A world class player who tried to improve the lot of his fellow players at a time when the game in Scotland was struggling to get to grips with professionalism. I remember him being called "the cancer at the heart of Scottish rugby". The SRU don't seem to realise that it's players like him that impress young lads to take up the game and not the blazers. The news that Budge has called it a day proves that 10 years on, they still haven't got it right. The SRU should be thankful they don't have shareholders to answer to, or they'd be cleared out! Budge's complaints, taken individually, may not seem all that serious. Alan Tait (another committed player in his time) may have every right to a couple of jars before a game - as long as that's all it is. However, it is the constant inability to get the details right that will lead to a long-term breakdown of respect between team, coaches and SRU management. Budge - you will be missed by the Scotland team and by the supporters. As one of my colleagues described you today, "he is the only player that Scotland has today who can put fear into the opposition". Finlay, JJ and David - have you kept fit? Totally agree with Budge. The SRU is run by a bunch of thick-headed public schoolboys who would still like us to be playing in the amateur era. This is a sad day for Scottish rugby. I am a great fan of Pountney's but would like to question his view of professionalism. Players are paid handsomely to train, play in and win rugby matches. When the rugby is over their work is complete. If they choose to go on a night out it is their choice. Unlike the amateur days bonuses now come in hard cash and not after-match drinks. I am sure all the team could have easily afforded to pay for a few beers after the game like every other rugby player in Scotland. Professionals cannot always have their cake and eat it!
If Scotland are to progress further on the international stage they must adopt the mentality of other national camps such as England. We must strive for perfection and Budge clearly thinks this is not happening. He is doing what he thinks is the best thing to do in this situation and I hope that Scotland take heed and sort these problems out. Poutney's actions, quite frankly, disgust me. As with the Roy Keane and Ireland affair, this shows clearly that many leading professionals put personal matters above patriotism and their country's successes. Poutney is a leader within the Scotland squad and such dissent can only perpetuate the negative morale clearly already inherent in the squad. He should face up to the problem at hand and attempt to lead the squad through the Six Nations, instead of throwing his toys out of the pram and running back to Northampton. Evidently their Heineken Cup bid takes preference. I cannot see how the SRU can get off the hook. Whether Budge is right or wrong in some of his claims it looks like the management are completely out of touch for things to reach this stage. The statement about studs is bizarre; all the boot suppliers should be falling over themselves to supply the SRU with free kit to supply to players - if the SRU cannot manage this then there can be little doubt that they are incapable. Having lived in Edinburgh for 12 years, I can sympathise with him. The rugby establishment here is still stuck in the public school era, they probably never liked him because he didn't go to the Edinburgh Academy. That's the sort of morons that are in charge of Scotland's rugby. Having played at various levels for Scotland I know at first hand why Budge has come to this point. The SRU has been a shambles for years, look at the state of the game. The Will Carling point of 22 buffers comes to mind, but in the SRU's case it's about 30. When will the people that run the game in Scotland wake up to the 21st century. They need to sort this matter, and a lot more asap. The psychological affects of Budge's injury have surely played no small a part in his decision. However, it must be stated that the SRU have for too long been ruled by barbour-wearing pen-pushers who have no conception of the grassroots feelings of fans and players alike. If they want an idea of the future of Scottish rugby under this regime they need look no further than the dinosaurs at the SFA and the state of Scottish football! As a Saints member, on the one hand I am delighted that we will get more of Budge at Scotland's expense. But as a regular follower of international rugby I think it is a worrying development. By quitting international rugby, players will make themselves much more marketable for clubs, and for those who are approaching the end of their careers, it may be right to quit and possibly extend their club-playing careers and gain extensions to contracts etc.
The fickleness of international selection is always there, and so would you, with your mortgage to pay and a family to support, choose say a three-year contract running into your thirties, with the proviso that you have to quit international rugby, or would you take your chance at the top level. Until we get a structured season for the northern hemisphere that allows players to play international rugby that doesn't take them away from important club games, this problem will escalate and thus detract from the spectacle that is internationals. The reason of course we don't have a structured season is because it doesn't fit with the southern hemisphere, and they have always had the upper hand at the IRB. This must stop. The game is now bigger here, generating more income and is growing faster and it is about time we started telling them what the situation is, and not the other way around. I think this situation is appalling. Budge Pountney has been in my opinion our most consistent player for the past few years. The fact that he is not prepared to represent Scotland because the SRU are not professional enough is ridiculous. How do we ever expect to get anywhere near winning a Six Nations or a World Cup if water cannot even be supplied at training? The SRU has to move into the professional era sometime soon or a proud rugby-playing nation might as well give up all together. Get a grip boys!
Poutney has been the only consistent "leader by example" that Scotland has had for a number of years. Budge should name the offenders individually (he has nothing to lose). Then perhaps the learned gentlemen that run the SRU would have their positions re-evaluated on a performance-related basis. Who knows, a modicum of respect and PRIDE from players might follow, lifting our game to the dizzying heights of success that the English 15 are currently bathing in! Budge has been a fantastic asset to the Scotland team over the past four years and I would like to take this opportunity to thank him for all he has done. A number of people within the SRU have not made things easy for him being 'an exile' but it is clear to everyone that England's loss was Scotland's gain. His commitment and will to win for Scotland was clear for all to see and it is such a shame that issues behind the scenes have forced his hand. From what he has said it's not a money issue but a complete lack of professionalism from the SRU that needs to be addressed, sooner rather than later, if we will ever compete on level terms with other teams. No, I think he was right to leave. And when it comes to the home internationals, I hope that all his colleagues will also walk out in sympathy....
The SRU should follow in the footsteps of our esteemed FAI and spend �30,000 on a Genesis report to prove Budge right! Alternatively, they could just listen to a player who knows what he is talking about, has given everything for his country and has made the ultimate sacrifice to try and change things for the better! Budge is right. They way they treat these sportsman is completely wrong; they train hard, and put themselves at risk when they take to the field, all for a small fee. I'm sure they would play for free if it meant they represent their country. It's always the old farts that have the money, and the old farts that are so out of touch with today's game. It's about time someone took a stand against the amateurish attitudes of the SRU, but unfortunately for Scotland it took one their most consistent players of the past few years to do it. You only have to look at the bigger picture to prove he's doing the right thing. How many promising players have been jettisoned from the team to make way for average antipodeans with, at best, tenuous links to Scotland? The whole point of the "Super Districts" was to create stables for Scotland's best players. Instead they're fast becoming scrap-heaps for past overseas internationals, and the SRU are doing nothing to combat the problem.
The SRU has to take a long, hard look at itself in the wake of this and move with the times. The SRU is supposed to be a professional body for professional players - it's high time it started acting like one. I applaud Budge for his honesty and integrity to himself, to the game and to the Scots fans. The archaic set-up at the SRU which is run essentially by the Edinburgh professional mafia for the Edinburgh professional mafia has had less and less to do with rugby over the past 20 years. We lack the business professionalism of the English, although it sticks in my craw to admit it, the sheer determination of the Irish, having lived there and been a fan at Lansdowne I can testify to that, and the raw guts of the southern hemisphere. Professionalism has spoiled rugby and all the SRU are doing is trying to play catch-up with best practice everywhere else. I sponsored the Scottish Women's team for it's first World Cup run and I saw how inept the SRU were then in 1994. Plus ca change!!! We cannot afford the loss of players like Budge but he is absolutely right to do what he has done. It just goes to show that Will Carling was correct all those years ago when he described the RFU as run by the "old farts" more interested in themselves than the game or the players. Obviously the SRU is just the same. To treat top athletes like this is disgraceful.
Garry, Scotland Budge has been a superb player for Scotland over the last few seasons and I back him. If what he is saying is true about the assistant coaches being out on the drink and a lack of food and water at training etc, there really should be a full investigation. This is all too typical though of when amateurs try to organise professional teams. I don't think Scotland will suffer too much from Poutney's departure as the back-row is an area we are relatively strong in. It'll be interesting to see who gets the worst press, as the SRU aren't the most popular group recently! Was Poutney just trying to be the Roy Keane of Scottish rugby by pulling out in this fashion just short of a major tournament?! Sounds a bit like the Roy Keane issue, a huge loss to Scotland as he is a fantastic player. Hope he can sort out his differences and play in the World Cup and the Six Nations. It's about time someone spoke up against the failings of the SRU. They have failed to roll with the times and embrace professionalism. Instead they demean their loyal supporters, who are perhaps the most passionate in the game, by doing nothing to improve the chances of their already handicapped players. The penny-pinching tightness of a union that stuck so aggressively to its ticketing prices in the last world cup (even though only a handful of committed Scots forked out their �20 to watch their team play Spain) has now forced out arguably their best player. After such a successful autumn the SRU should be ashamed of themselves.
James Cashmore, England Come on Budge. Maybe there are other reasons and maybe I am not reading the report correctly but you won't win much sympathy complaining that you have to buy your own beers and that the Scottish RFU should pay for your gifts. If I give my club tie away I have to buy a new one. And if I want a beer I have to buy it and I bet Budge has more money than me! The incidents which have led to Budge Pountney's regrettable decision just underlines the small-minded attitude that the SRU seems to display all too often. I have had dealings with the SRU over the years and time and again meet with attitudes which can only be described as petty and bureaucratic. It is time that the SRU lived up to its responsibilities as a high-profile national body and stopped acting like a rule bound local golf club. Budge, thank you for everything, I wish you all the best. I totally agree it will hinder Scotland's progress in the Six Nations and the World Cup. The SRU must look after their players and make them want to play for Scotland. It's the same with any job, if your boss treats you like dirt you leave. If they've any sense they'll be grovelling like hell to get him back. We have Scott Murray but he's not enough. | | See also:  29 Jan 03 | International Top Sports Talk stories now: Links to more Sports Talk stories are at the foot of the page. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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I back Budge 100%