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| Sunday, 4 August, 2002, 13:44 GMT 14:44 UK Will England or India win the series? ![]() In a pulsating final two sessions on day five, India held on to finish 424-8 and secure a draw in the second Test with England. With two Tests remaining in this gripping series, who will come out on top? Michael Vaughan proved he is more than just a batsman, knocking over Sachin Tendulkar's stumps with a ball that turned square. But stoic batting from Rahul Dravid (115), Tendulkar (92) and Sourav Ganguly (99) ultimately repelled England's seam attack. Can England survive without the likes of Darren Gough to claim a memorable series? Or will Tendulkar come good and spoil the home team's party? This debate is now closed. A selection of your e-mails appear below. Well, the much-hyped Indian batting was all at sea against English quicks at Lord's, which was a great track to bat on. They almost managed to repeat that at Trent Bridge. The less one speaks about Indian bowling, the better. Unless Tendulkar, Dravid and Ganguly deliver in the next two Tests, I don't even see India managing draws, never mind victory. And a draw on a track which seams as much as Headingley does is an even more daunting task. I believe that India should consider themselves fortunate if they manage to lose this series 2-0, rather than 3-0. England will win the series comfortably, as Indian bowlers just can't seem to bowl them once, let alone twice. Perhaps India needs more than cricketing talent to win Test matches. This might explain their inability to win outside their home country. At home they get the atmosphere in which they thrive. Tailored wickets, favourable press, partisan crowd and somewhat partisan umpiring.
The last point has now changed. It remains to been seen now, with two neutral umpires at home as well, if India remain the same force at home too... What has happened to England? They don't collapse any more and they have several bowlers capable of playing at the highest level. We will win the series 2-0. At last we are ready to take on the Aussies, even if we have injuries. The time has come, gentlemen, for an Ashes victory. It's been a long time. India have fought back in both the Test matches of this series. At Lord's they could not save the match, while they ended the Trent Bridge Test with their pride intact. India's pride unfortunately is limited to performing well with the bat. There seems to be no pride in bowling well or fielding well. Many aspects of the bowling and fielding need to be tightened if they want to even entertain hopes of saving the series. With the England batting line-up in excellent form, they are able to plunder runs at will against an attack that lacks bite. The bowling attack also lacks the discipline that is essential to bowl on flat tracks. Ganguly and John Wright need to focus completely on session-by-session bowling strategy. They also need to play their best bowlers, even five if they can balance their batting - with Dravid doing the keeping.
India can surely dismiss any thoughts of out-batting England, especially when they are scoring 500 plus every time they bat. India still need to get the team composition and their match strategy and tactics right for the Leeds Test, while all England have to do is keep up the good work. If India can't win it by pace, then why not go for spin - let's play all spinners and see what happens! I have just one message for England fans. Don't count your chickens before they are hatched. Don't write the Indians off yet. Did you forget the Natwest ODI series already? And what about the fate the mighty World beating Australians suffered in the hands of the same "weak" Indian team? Test cricket is a bowler's game, and one-day cricket is a batsman's game. India have proved that an excellent one-day side can be a mediocre Test team. There have been so many positives this summer already: England have at last managed to find the strength of batting without weakening their bowling, and the inclusion of Flintoff and White gives the tail the confidence to apply themselves. What a shame Michael Vaughan doesn't bowl regularly for his county though. It's also a pity that Hussain is already talking about stepping down just when the side is coming together. He is a thoughtful tactician in the field - England's best since Mike Brearley - and a class batsman too. Nasser, if you read this...stay on!
Whatever the relative merits of the England and India batting line-ups, India will struggle to win a test because their bowlers don't look like being able to bowl a side out twice. I think England look far more settled in their batting and they have a good fighting unit. The most likely result would be 1-0 or 2-0 because India do not have what it takes to win Test matches abroad - that is reality. India will struggle to win a Test match outside of India until they get rid of their defeatist mentality. Indian fans are so used to losing that a Tendulkar century is celebrated like India winning a test match against Australia in Australia. Cricket is about winning, not personal landmarks. There can be only two options - 2-0 England or 3-0 England. India have just two players with the class and the application to stay at the wicket. The rest are amazing shot makers but you can't expect to win Test matches regularly with such players. England will win the series 3-0, Dravid and Tendulkar permitting. Listening to the rantings of some Indian fans one would be forgiven for thinking that the Indian batting line-up is greatest that the world has ever seen. But in truth they posses one world-class batsman in Tendulkar and a decent defensive batsman in Dravid.
The bowling is mediocre at best, and one cannot see them even bowling an average England side out twice. England will win this series quite easily, and the Indian fans will continue to delude themselves that they have a team of world-beaters. It would appear that England have figured out the Indian bowling attack and are able to score runs freely. Barring a middle order collapse in one of the last two Tests, I expect England to hold on and win the series. England have done a good job in the first two Tests and they deserve to be leading 1-0. India will level the series in the remaining matches - but only if they play both their spinners in the same match! India's fast bowlers are not up to the mark. Ganguly should realize this and start believing in his strength - spin bowling! For all the comments here about the mediocrity of the two times as well as the umpiring, it has been an absorbing contest! To use a clich�, cricket is surely the winner? A draw appears imminent, and a well deserved result. The expectation of the Indian fans reminds me of the English football fans. Hopes are inflated by having one or two world class players like Sachin and Dravid.
In my opinion England have completely outplayed India in nearly every session of this series because India lack the cohesion as a team and particularly a bowling attack that can bowl out a decent team twice. This is shown by their appalling record away from home over recent years. England have a fight on their hands to preserve their lead. It's hard to see either of these sides bowling the other out twice in the remaining matches. I think the final match at the Oval offers India an excellent opportunity. It's liable to be quick and bouncy, and provided Kumble is fit again, he and Harbhajan (the best spin partnership in the world at the moment) could cause England quite a few problems. The bottom line is the Indian team has never been the same since the Gavaskar era. The teams of that era won with whatever they had at their disposal with sensational spirit and lost without excuses. The reason a country of a billion people cannot produce a single decent fast bowler in the Test arena is simply that sheer pace is never embraced or encouraged unless of course you happen to know a selector's uncle. This team whether playing in England, Australia, South Africa or anywhere overseas is an embarrassment to the passion that oozes out of our great game and the fans that follow it. Matches won at home are thanks to the brilliance of the Kumbles and the Harbhajans plus of course the massive hopeful diehard crowds.
England have been a far superior side and deserve to win the series convincingly while any talk of cheating, poor umpiring or bad sportsmanship on behalf of the English is complete nonsense or denial and is part and parcel of any sporting event which goes both ways. Hopefully the same form can be displayed against the Aussies later this year as the powerhouse of Test cricket certainly needs some decent competition which lately no team has been able to provide. Meanwhile if Indian management and infrastructure continues along the same track then bowlers will continue to gain a Test place when they couldn't even cut in the local competitions elsewhere and there will surely be no wins away from home for another sixteen years. Indian fans should consider themselves and their team lucky that the weather took a day away from the match or they'd be 2-0 down to England by now. What pathetic excuses! While one guy actually says that India have more talent (yeah, we've seen the great amount of talent in India's bowlers), another says that the prize money should be increased, only then will India get off their high horse and 'try' to win! India have proved once again that they are weak abroad, and England will probably win the series 2-0. I would like to see India play with both Harbajan Singh and Anil Kumble if the conditions for this are remotely favourable; their seamers are fairly ordinary and medium-paced. In recent times, it is good to see less of the infamous England batting collapses. However, the batting and bowling will have to be at its best if England are to even give Australia a close contest. Rarely do I think that American sports are a good example, but here is one instance. In the NFL, if a team wants to dispute a referee's decision, there is a price to pay if they are wrong - they lose a time out. If the video is inconclusive, the ref's decision stands. It is wrong to give the benefit of the doubt to the batsman if the video is inconclusive. The umpire should make the decision and he, not the batsman, should get the benefit of the doubt if the third umpire cannot help.
England are going to win the series. India's problem is that they don't have a bowler who can rip through a batting line-up on pitches outside India. Srinath's retirement is definitely a big blow for them, as he was capable of producing some dangerous spells. India do not look as if they can get 20 wickets in a match. England may therefore already have done enough to win the series. India needs another Srinath. Fast bowling and catches win matches. Assuming that the batting in the second innings at Trent Bridge by India is a starting point, then the series is very evenly poised. As always, it does take India about a couple of Test matches before everything falls into groove. I am delighted by the way English cricket has turned around, and the credit goes to one man, Nasser Hussain. He has shown his brilliance in controlling the conditions on the ground, always trying something, never complacent in the field.
I was disgusted by the yob culture at Nottingham today. I have just returned home with my 10-year-old grandson after watching the fifth day. The laddish, drunken behaviour of many England supporters was not in keeping with the happy Indian celebration as their team produced a sterling performance to save the match, and deservedly so. When it became obvious that "Engerland" were not going to win, a section of the crowd turned hostile and began chanting and screaming obscenities at Indian fielders near the boundary areas. This is not acceptable. With the new police powers of arrest, they should start by cleaning up cricket grounds up and down the country. I support England but I hope the arrogance is wiped off the faces of some of these so-called English supporters if India do win the series. Don't work yourselves up because you won a match against India. These bowlers in the Indian team are an apology for fast bowling. Any other team with even a passable attack will get the better of the English team. You will be whitewashed by the Aussies with your Trescothick and all. With this poor bowling line up, India do not stand a chance of winning the series. The batsmen should see to it that they don't lose the next two Tests.
India just do not have enough quality bowling, losing Srinath was a tragedy. So we have two sides who are capable of batting very well and only one side looking capable of taking 20 wickets. The series, weather permitting, can only really go one way, especially with the seamer-friendly Headingly next. England 2-0. Another stunning performance by England. A real triumph for Nasser Hussain and a great boost for the forthcoming Ashes. I think we'll finish the job in Test three. You have to wonder why the lads bother playing after reading half of the comments here - damned if you do, damned if you don't. So to all the 'whingers', both Indian and English: if you can play better let's see you then. Finally the Indians showed some passion and bottle. Let's hope the Indian batsmen can continue this form for the next Tests and try to assert some pressure on the England batsman to see how they cope! Unfortuantely, the subject of cheating is becoming a growing problem in the game and all teams are responsible for it, not just India. It is up to the governing body (ICC) to stamp their authority and actually enforce the rules and regulations in place regardless of the teams involved. England had two crucial factors doing the job for them: the weather and the umpires.
Calm down everybody. No need to go around calling each other cheats and bad losers. After all, when it comes to cricket, those words apply to virtually everyone. The comments by Matthew and David confirm what Sunil Gavaskar once said of the English as "the champion whingers of the world". He also wrote: "If anybody has made the game boring over the years it is solely England with its misplaced theories and notions about the game." The difference between England and India is in attitude. In terms of talent the Indians are superior but the English are more professional in applying their limited talents. If the prize money for winning was greater the Indians would wipe the floor with the likes of England. India should get rid of Agarkar and Nehra as they are not even remotely in the Test class. They should be replaced by Kaif and Kumble. Also, Parthiv Patel should be dropped as India being 0-1 down is not the best time to try him out considering that he has not even played in a Ranji Trophy match. Instead, Rahul Dravid should keep wicket thereby allowing either Mongia or Bangar (who can bowl too) into the side. The Indian team management has to wake up to the fact that in the absence of quality seamers the minimum the Indian team can do is to build up a huge total thereby at least avoiding defeat in the next two Test matches. I'm as pleased as anyone to see England progressing so well in this match. India are a quality team but not in the same league as the Australians. Will the nation once again get carried away with this small achievement against India before the winter when, once again, we get unceremoniously stuffed against the lads from down-under?!?!
I can't believe some of the bad loser comments being made by some of the Indian fans. Why can't they just accept the fact that England are better than India? India are an over-hyped team who may win the odd Test match. Stop blaming everything on the umpires. If England fans complain, they get called bad losers. I have to say that Indian fans are much worse! Clearly England have a game plan that they execute, unlike India, who think they can win without any application or discipline. The batsmen have performed so indifferently that it doesn't bode well for the remaining Tests. The Indian bowlers just cannot bowl a consistent line and length. It is amazing that a country with a population of over a billion people who are cricket mad cannot produce strike bowlers to the same quality as those of Pakistan and Australia, who manage to find them with regularity. Indian fans: while your cricketers continue to cheat, as TV replays prove, you should not expect English batsmen to accept their claimed catches. Remember, Sehwag has already in his short career been banned from a Test match because of excessive appealing for obvious non-catches. Get past your own biases first. I still believe that Sachin is the best batsman in the world and he has proved it again today by scoring 92 against England. India will win this series 2-1 for sure. Come on guys, we are behind you. One would think that the morning session on day four will be crucial, but even if England do get away with a lead of over two hundred, do they have the bowling to dislodge India?
On paper, it is highly unlikely but as we have already seen in this series and several times in the past, paper and turf are worlds apart when the Indian cricket team bat abroad! Series prediction: England 2-1. I suspect India's greatest weakness for a long time has been in the bowling department. Even if their batsman score runs (which has been patchy in this series), it is very difficult for them to bowl the opposition out. I believe the key to winning Test matches are bowlers. You can get away with stop gap bowling in one day encounters but not in Tests. England evidently are a better team than India in Test series. But they should continue the same rhythm for the rest of the series and must win the series in a convincing fashion (3-0 or 4-0). India are yet to prove that they have one of the best batting line-ups in the world. Their batting has not been good enough as it relates to consistency and until they fix that problem, their woes of overseas nightmares will continue. It was a pity to see Hussain and Vaughan stand and wait for the umpire's decision to be given out. It was quite clear that they had made contact with the ball and it is a pity that the captain of the English cricket team lacks sportsmanship spirit.
Thanks to the umpires, English players are getting to play twice in one inning as compared to Indian players who are not even getting to play once! This fact has been demonstrated by the Indian captain being given out twice when he was clearly not out. Why do umpires not ask for the third umpire's verdict in the case of Indian players, but only for English players. This biased umpiring in addition to Hussain's negative tactics will surely lead to a English win but at the cost of the game of cricket - or is it that nobody cares? These Indian bowlers are pathetic. As an Indian supporter I had hoped that we will be able to save this test. Does not look so right now. It will be over by tea (if not earlier) tomorrow. We will lose the series 4-0, unless rain saves us. But that will be good because we will then begin to invest on bowlers and sake up the team a bit. Well, this is our Indian team for you, they did show some flashes of brilliance during the one day series, but we are back to warm and fuzzy normal. This is exactly how every away series has gone, for as long as I can remember. We have a bunch over hyped and overrated players, who don't deserve even a minute fraction of the adulation they get back home!! Congrats England for putting these guys back in their place.
England's batsmen seem to have found balance throughout the order and have comprehensively outscored their opponents, who are supposedly the best batting line-up apart from the Aussies. The difference seems to be brought about by a mature approach, whereby the rash decisions have been cut out and measured strokes more akin to the Australian batsmen have been employed. England have a very good chance to go up 2-0 in this series. The Indian bowling attack is pathetic. They do not have a single strike bowler. I have a feeling that India would score more runs if their bowling attack was better. You never know, England could win the series 4-0. I could not disagree more with Jonathon Agnew about the use of technology in cricket. He speaks of a halcyon period when batsmen walked and fielders never claimed a dubious catch or appealed for a non-existent lbw. Has he never played against the Australians? If those days ever existed, which I doubt, they are now long gone. Surely, if technology assists the umpires to come to a just decision, why should it not be used? The question surely is not whether the umpire thinks that the batsman is out, but whether he is, in fact, out. Although it might be said that it is different in the case of a run out because it is clearer, there is no difference in principle at all: the technology can tell us whether the batsman is in or out so why not use it?
Surely there has been far more bad feeling created in the game by batsmen being given out when they really had not edged the ball, for instance, than any batsman standing his ground and requiring the umpire to be sure he was out. In other sports, eg. rugby league, technology has been well used to make the game fairer. So let's get out of the gentlemen v players era and embrace technology so as to make the great game of cricket a fairer one for all those whose livelihoods depend on the quality of their performances. If it does not rain again, England are sure to win the second Test. At lunch on the fourth day the lead is already 111. Another 20 overs will extend it to 200. India cannot last more than a hundred of the remaining 160 overs. Chances are they will collapse (with Tendulkar out for a duck!) to lose by an innings. This is England without their best batsman and two best bowlers on flat wickets and India still can't compete! India hasn't won a Test series abroad for 16 years and are unlikely to do so for the next sixteen at least. None of India's three pacemen will make it to any decent international side today, and therefore anything less than 4-0 would be a surprise.
Well done England! But not sure whether to congratulate the players or the umpire! England can definitely snatch this one despite the best efforts of the earlier rain. Vaughan's innings is what we would expect of such a quality player at the top of his game. Perhaps Sachin should watch a tape to remind him of how to build an innings! Although England's bowling has been below the high standards set in the first test, English resolve at the crease will prevail. Special mention to Singh for his incendiary 50 yesterday. A fantastic innings by Michael Vaughan. Such a shame he didn't get 200, but as he waited for his last delivery on 197 he looked far more nervous than he had done previously. The two teams looked very even in the one day matches, but in the Tests England are without question the better side. I have been very disappointed with India, their supporters have talked much about the strong batting of India but where are the results? England have made Tendulkar look very ordinary. I hope for the Indian fans that they get some sort of result, but I think if it doesn't rain again it will be 4-0 England.
I believe England have to contain India. You can see this Indian side has a long wagging tail. So it is key to bowl out all the players rather than relax after the top order get out. India have as good a chance as England but for both sides, the key is bowling. England have a slim chance of winning the Nottingham Test as the rain is playing spoil sport. The Test might well end in a draw. The English bowlers except Hoggard looked very pathetic. Hussain's fielding tactics too will need a revision. A very poor performance by England so far in this Test match! Very helpful conditions and the English bowlers have failed to take advantage. One has to say also some poor captaincy from Hussain has contributed. I cannot image the Australians letting India score 300+ in bowling conditions like there have been for the past two days. I fail to see what all the fuss about Harmison is about. He has yet to get above 90mph He is supposed to be the fastest bowler in England along with Jones. England would have been better off picking Chris Silverwood instead of Harmison - Silverwood has been in good form.
India have a long tail and a couple of early wickets tomorrow morning would bring England back into the game. If the English bowlers let the Indians score more than 400 runs, then England will be in trouble. Remember, England have to bat last and India have Harbajan Singh to do the tricks in the fourth innings. So long as England have an Australian coach, they should be fine. England are making a grave error in bringing in kids like Harmison and Key to plug a gap whilst more senior players are injured. What chance has Harmison got of playing in the third Test when the likes of Caddick, Tudor and Jones are back to fitness? Even if he takes a few wickets he'll still be stood down for one of the more senior players to return. What sort of message does this give to youngsters like Harmison and Key (who himself would be nowhere near the Test side if Trescothick hadn't broken his thumb)? As far as I'm concerned, more experienced players should be used as stop gaps. I don't understand why Chris Silverwood doesn't get picked. Great to see England include Jones and Harmison, but Silverwood is just as quick and a much better bowler. |
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