Local authorities, Carrie and David Grant

Nuala McGovern: Hello and welcome to SEND In the Spotlight. Now, if you've listened to our conversations on this podcast, you will know that local authorities have come in for a lot of criticism from some of my guests who feel that they need to go to battle with their local authority as they attempt to get their children's needs met. 

Well today we have the rare opportunity to hear directly from those that are working for local authorities and to help us see the world through their eyes. We're going to hear from Kensington and Chelsea local authority in London on what's working and what's not for that council. But also joining us is a SEND mum, who is also a SEND caseworker for a local authority, and I think her story illustrates really clearly the dilemmas that are on both sides.

We're going to find out more about the challenges they face in running a SEND education system and also how the pressures have changed as caseloads have increased. There's the reality of limited resources, both financial and human, like access to educational psychologists and other professionals.

You know, what's it like making decisions that will profoundly affect a child's future? And also, what suggestions do they have to improve the system from the inside? Well, all that is to come. Plus, this week we are putting 17-year-old Stephen in the spotlight as we find out why he has won a “Proudest Moment” award.

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Well with me throughout this episode is Carrie and David Grant. Welcome to your first time on SEND In the Spotlight.

Carrie Grant: It's exciting to be here.

David Grant: Lovely to be here.

Nuala McGovern: But we're really glad you are joining us. Many listeners, of course, will know you already from your professional lives as Fame Academy judges and BAFTA award-winning broadcasters, but you're also parents four times to uh, neurodivergent children and um, I was wondering what is life like in the Grant household? How would you describe it?

David Grant: Um, I would say that we in our house have our own normal. Um, and I think that any SEND family will recognise this, that your normal is not ordinary. I think that it's really easy to confuse ordinary and normal when people say, “well, that's not normal”. For us there are certain things that for others might seem odd, that are really normal. Also, we have to bespoke parent.

I think, you know, the way that I grew up was certainly, “These are the rights, these are the wrongs. This is what you can do, this is what you can't do”, and everybody was supposed to adhere to the same template. When you have SEND children, it doesn't work like that. If you've got four children, it's like parenting in four different styles.

Nuala McGovern: I thought you were almost going to say four different languages, because I think in a way, I suppose what I'm hearing from people is like every child has their own needs is completely unique. How has it been for you, Carrie?

Carrie Grant: I think I would pick up on that actually. I think that everything that you want to be as a parent is that you think, certainly for me, I want to be ordered. I want to know exactly what, how I want to bring my children up and this is how it's going to be. And you have all these plans and you look at your own childhood and you think, I want to pick up that. I liked that. I don't like that, so I won't do that. And then you are given four completely different children.

Nuala McGovern: Individuals.

Carrie Grant: Individuals. So it's not even as though you can say, I'm going to apply a generic kind of neurodivergent way of parenting. That has to be bespoke for each child, and that means that parenting is intense.

Nuala McGovern: And of course, part of that parenting, bespoke parenting, will mean with your children, uh, dealing with local authorities.

Carrie Grant: Yeah, of course.

Nuala McGovern: As you try to attempt to get the help that, that you need or your children need, should I say? How would you describe the experience Carrie?

Carrie Grant: I think it's a mixed bag actually. I think I have many, we have many stories that would echo what other parents' experiences are, where the local authority is just a faceless teabag coloured paper / letter that you get every few weeks. The delays, the kicking the can down the road. But I have also, we have also had incredible experiences with our local authority where they have really stepped up and been incredibly helpful. So I think it's, you know, it's… The other thing is we're working with a system that sits behind the local authority.

Nuala McGovern: Mm-hmm.

Carrie Grant: And I think that it's hard for parents because we just, that's our first port of call, whereas actually behind that is government policy and that's really where the teeth are, and that's, that's the bit that we really need to be challenging.

Nuala McGovern: I think that's interesting, David. Right? Because some people bind up the two - local authority and the system.

David Grant: Mm-hmm.

Nuala McGovern: But they're two separate entities as Carrie described.

David Grant: Yes. And I think that it's important for parents of SEND children to recognise that, otherwise you can end up in a situation where you feel that the local authority, the people who are your first port of call or are your only, port of call. The only place that you have where you can interface with people who can offer you the help that you need, where if you don't recognise that they themselves work within a certain set of criteria that may not be parent friendly, they simply become the enemy. They simply become the wall against which you have to smash. The gatekeepers who never open the gate.

Nuala McGovern: And that's why it's so important, I think, to do this episode, to hear from people that are working within the authority, which is part of the system, but is not the system as you describe. You have used your lived experience to work with local authorities. Why?

Carrie Grant: So, I started gosh, about 10 years ago, thinking about how we do really good co-production. What does that look like between families and the local authority, and how do we get a good dialogue going?

Nuala McGovern: And that is an actual term, co-production?

Carrie Grant: Yeah. Oh, absolutely. So, I would look at what are the great marks of co-production. Everybody's in the room. We all get heard. We can think outside the box. You know, in any meeting that I go into, if I'm faced with six professionals, all the practitioners are there and I'm just a little old parent, me! I'm a singing teacher, as it were, and what agency do I have in that space? Absolutely none. I'm looking for that person in the room that is going to say “We don't normally do that but yeah, maybe we should”.

Nuala McGovern: Well, thank you for sharing that and also for kicking us off at the beginning of this episode. I want to thank listeners for continuing to contact us. The email is send@bbc.co.uk. You've also been messaging, uh, on our Instagram feed in your droves. We do read them, um, and get so much good information from you. Carrie, you've got one there.

Carrie Grant: I do, yes. This one is from Jo who's a SEND parent, who writes about something she feels isn't often discussed, the lack of enforcement of the current law. She says “There is a law in place and it should be strictly enforced by tribunal judges. And the local authorities should not simply get away, not complying with current legislation. This does not appear to apply in any other area of litigation and should not be the case here.

My own story has a happy conclusion. My son is now in specialist school where he is really happy. I gave up practicing law.” That's interesting. Apparently she was a lawyer, always helpful. In 2023, she gave up she says “to focus on the tribunal and securing a school place for him. But I do hope to return one day.”

Nuala McGovern: And I suppose talking about the time commitment there as well, which we've spoken about at times of how many people feel they need to give up their job.

Carrie Grant: Oh yeah. Many of us are full-time carers.

Nuala McGovern: David, you've got an email

David Grant: I have. This one is from Carla who writes, “Parents are not just tired they're at breaking point. Many are caring full-time for children with complex needs while being forced to become legal experts, advocates and caseworkers just to ensure their child can attend school safely.

What is often missing from public discussion is that this is not a system under strain alone. It is a system where unlawful practice has become normalised and parents were expected to absorb the cost emotionally, financially, and mentally.”

Nuala McGovern: Thanks so much for the messages. send@bbc.co.uk if you want to get in touch.

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We want to return to our regular guest, Kate McGough, BBC Education Reporter. Good to have you back with us, Kate.

Kate McGough: It's lovely to be here.

Nuala McGovern: Okay, let us start by following the money. What is the funding situation for local authorities and SEND right now.

Kate McGough: Yes, right, well, it's a little complicated, but essentially local councils are responsible for assessing, managing, funding, SEND provision. Basically, any SEND costs above an initial amount that would come from school budgets. And they get that funding ringfenced from the central government through something called the Dedicated Schools Grant that is split up into a few different blocks. The biggest block of that is schools funding. That will include, you know, funding for that initial SEND support in schools.

But there's a separate block to cover high needs, which will include EHCP costs, special school places, and in that high needs spending, councils received just over 12 billion from central government this year. But they're going to be spending closer to 15 billion according to the latest stats from the Office for Budget Responsibility. The thing is, councils have a statutory duty to provide support for SEND children and young people who need it. But because of this rising demand, essentially, they're spending a lot more than they're getting from the central government.

And costs over the last decade have risen by about two thirds. They're predicted to rise by 13% this year. So. You know, lots of rising costs for councils.

Nuala McGovern: Right. I want to turn to Chancellor Rachel Reeves for a moment because she announced a change in the way the funding will work at the most recent budget. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

Kate McGough: All that is going to change, essentially, so there's going to be a big shift in where the money comes from by 2028. The Chancellor promised to move funding away from local authorities back into central government completely. We don't actually know yet how it's going to work. You know, we don't know whether that money is now going to come straight out the DFE’s core school's budget or whether there'll be more money put in, or whether it's gonna be covered from somewhere else in central government. Um, you know, the government have pointed to that we will find out more when it comes to the school's White Paper.

Nuala McGovern: Okay. I want to turn to statutory override, sounds to me like it could be a self-driving vehicle, but it's not.

Kate McGough: (Laughter) Yes, it's an accounting or budget mechanism. So yeah, a lot less fun than that. So, essentially councils are supposed to follow rules about having balanced budgets, and they've been allowed, because of all this overspending they've been doing on SEND, they've been allowed to keep that gap, that deficit off their main budgets.

So it's kind of been artificially held off budgets. It was meant to be a temporary measure, but it's, it's been extended to 2028 when central government will now take it over. The OBR have warned that those debts will be building up and by 2028 there'll be about 14 billion of this, you know, the gap that will need to be dealt with.

Um, the County Councils Network, they've warned that, you know, if they have to put all this back on their main accounts, half of councils would face instant bankruptcy because of these SEND costs. Um, and so they're really keen to know what the government plans to do. The government have said they're going to put out more details in the coming weeks as part of the kind of local government finance settlement process. We don't know- Will those debts be written off? Will they be partially written off? Will councils be expected to honour some of them? Um, the government have warned that future support will not be unlimited, and they've got to try and keep these, SEND deficits as low as they can.

Nuala McGovern: Kate, do stay with us, we'll come back on some other issues as well. But I want to bring in the woman who was nodding along to a number of the issues that you were saying there, Kate. I'm delighted to welcome Julie Ely, who's Assistant Director of Education SEND and Admissions at Kensington and Chelsea Council in London. You're so welcome.

Julie: Thank you.

Nuala McGovern: We're so happy you're here because we want to be able to lift the lid, as it were, on what it's like having that responsibility running this SEND system from your point of view, within that local authority. I do want to say that you are not here to speak for or defend all local authorities. You're here only about Kensington and Chelsea. Why do you do this job?

Julie: I love this job. I can't tell you the smile on my face that this job gives me is incredible. I never forget the privilege of making decisions that impact on other people's lives and preparing young people for their adult lives and coming to work for Kensington and Chelsea, which I've done for seven years now, has an additional special honour to be able to lead that service. So, they are the things that really make me want to get up and go every day,

Nuala McGovern: And I can see that smile and that energy that is coming from you. You talk about leading the service, just give me a brief overview of what you're responsible for, Julie.

Julie: Okay. I manage the teams that do the sector assessments. That's the Education, Health and Care Plans. But I also manage the Education Psychology service, specialist teachers and outreach services that are supporting schools. I oversee home to school transport.

Carrie Grant: You are running it!

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Nuala McGovern: Well, and also, I'm just thinking these are a lot of the issues that are, let's be frank, contentious.

Julie: They're the tough things.

Nuala McGovern: You know, these are ones that grab the headlines. These are things that people feel they have to go to battle for at times, to procure what they want within those various areas.

Okay, let me throw a few questions to you. We heard in the emails that Carrie and David were reading, parents claiming that unlawful practice has become normalised and that local authorities should not simply get away, not complying with current legislation. Do you accept that, that happens?

Julie: I think it's deeply concerning and I think it goes to the heart of where the system is at the moment, because I don't think it's intentional, but I think, the Children and Families Act, the very first paragraph, that's section 19 of the Act is about families having the right to have their elbows out around the table and having a say in all the decisions that affect them and everything flows from that.

The rest of the act, all of the regulations, 274 pages of the code of practice all flow from really understanding that's the starting point. So, you know, I watched the petition in the House of Commons in September, 90 MPs, 130,000 families. I went to see my MP and I went to see the MP in the area next to me to make sure they knew as well.

And I know that loads of my leadership team also went to talk to their MPs to say, “Look, these are the things that we really need to do because we are desperate to get it right.” So in Kensington and Chelsea, we've really focused on making sure it's a statutory service that we're sticking to the law and the team have training from barristers and we do lots of kind of deep dives into cases and say, are we getting this right? What could we do better? How could we learn from the way that we've managed this case? But it's people's lived experience. I know from my own social networks that, you know, people have found that local authorities have broken the law. And I think if it says that you'll do something in six weeks or 20 weeks or within two weeks of a meeting and you don't do that, you have broken the law.

Nuala McGovern: Are the timeframes unrealistic?

Julie: In the life of a child, they couldn't be any longer. That's the issue, isn't it? It's, I think 20 weeks is a long time.

Carrie Grant: The system is based on your child needing to fail, and I think that's, that's the problem we should be picking up on a child who's struggling in school a lot earlier. There's enough evidence of it now we're all a lot more aware of SEND and disability. Let me just put that in there as well. It's not just about neurodivergence. This is about all kinds of needs. We should be getting in much sooner. So what happens is the child fails, they fail in school then because they're failing, they then have a psychological problem. Then they can't access CAMHS, they can't access the help that they need psychologically. They really fail in school, then they end up out of school. Then there is no school, there's no specialist school in their local area so they end up going out of area to a school that then is right. You might wait three years for that school and then you need a taxi for it. And so there, that's where all the criticism comes. “Why has your kid got a taxi to school?” You think, the backstory to this goes back 10 years.

Nuala McGovern: Mm-hmm. Really interesting actually on that aspect that Carrie brings up, the government is pushing for more and more early intervention to spot problems before they progress. Does your council do that?

Julie: Absolutely, yeah. We've, we've recognised that people want the help now, they don't necessarily want an Education, Health, and Care Plan. They don't even know what that is when they first come to a conversation with the council. So within the services that I oversee are a number of support services and outreach that helps schools, because it's the schools in the early years settings…

Nuala McGovern: What age?

Julie: Right from the get go. So, we'll support nurseries, but actually in my team of specialist teachers, there are teachers of the deaf who will go to hospitals when babies have been born as part of newborn screening. So, you know, within a couple of days they've made contact with families and reached out to them.

Nuala McGovern: And I think it's interesting that you say that and important because we need to remember the broad need that there can be in so many different scenarios. I want to go onto, EHCPs, explain how you deal with the increasing number of applications.

Julie: The council's not a building is it? The council is the people who work there, and in Kensington & Chelsea, we are morally aligned as a team. Our purpose is that we all want the best for the families that we serve in our local community. So, in the way that we've organised ourselves, staff have been really active in how do we best design the way that we can deliver this service for our families. And so what we decided was that we would have a team who just dealt with families who hadn't been through this process before. Our front door team. And they would specialise in taking families through their first ever assessment. But we then have other teams who, if your child's in a nursery with an EHCP and it's time to move to primary school, or if you're in primary school going to secondary, there's a team that will take you through that, through your annual reviews.

And we have another team that will, when you're in secondary school, take you through to college and think about supported internships, apprenticeships, and moving on. And then we have a tiny little team who will look after your education, health, and care plan if you are particularly vulnerable. So if you are in a tier four hospital or known to the Youth Justice System.

Nuala McGovern: Judy, how confident are you that your assessment teams that you have described are not turning down children who, in fact should have an EHCP assessment?

Julie: So, I mean, everybody makes mistakes and we would be very quick to kind of, you know, if a parent came back to us and said, look, there's some evidence here we don't think you've looked at, to revisit that. But in terms of the proportion of request for assessment that we agree, we're just above the national average. So, we're not turning down more than other people. We have a multi-agency way of kind of looking at the request for assessment and saying, have we got a round enough picture of the evidence here? Our education psychologists, speech and language therapists, advisory teachers for early years and autism and the sensory impairments are in schools, supporting them with the children that are on their registers to identify children who might need to come forward. Um, when children are coming through and they might have been in one of our nurseries, so we've got Golborne & Maxilla nursery has a specialist SEN provision within that. And the head teacher of that would sit on our panel with us.

Carrie Grant: Can I ask you something then? Because say, say you, you, you've got a child who's about eight or nine years old and the family and the school have applied for an EHCP. You don't think the level of need is high enough so you reject it. See, for the parent, what they will hear is you are pushing it back to the school to provide, but the school don't feel they can provide. So as a parent, you are caught between the local authority have said “no.” The school are now..it’s on them to provide for my child. But if they're saying they can't, what can a parent do in that situation?

Julie: So, if we get a referral for a statutory assessment and we think that there is more that the school can do, because that's probably the scenario your describing, isn't it?

Carrie Grant: Yeah.

Julie: We would always have a next steps meeting where we would meet. So someone from the SEN service would meet with a parent and the school to have a conversation about what we think can be done. And so we would make sure ….

Carrie Grant: Ah, the schools are resistant to that or the teachers don't have the training, which we know they have so little training on some of these subjects.

Julie: They do have very little training. I would absolutely agree with you.

Carrie Grant: We are setting them up to fail, aren't we? We’re setting teachers up to fail.

Julie: So one of the things, we have a little team, they're a very small team called the SENDies and they're specialist teachers and we've got our own practitioner TAs in that team. They go into our schools. In the classrooms. So we are not just relying on our SENDCO to do everything and they will work with the class teachers, do some observation, do some consultation, talk to the class teacher, model some of the strategies that could be used. So we are there trying to give that support in real time.

Nuala McGovern: I want to actually, I suppose, really relate it in a way, a big issue at the moment is about making mainstream schools more inclusive. We have had an episode on that. Some children will need specialist provision often outside their areas. The long journeys we, we briefly alluded to as well. You would say you've bucked the trend by creating more specialist places and in the process have cut the transport bill. Do you want to let people know how you've done that?

Julie: We have. We have, I mean, the starting point is listening to families and what they say that their children need, and so Kensington built its own special school. It knew there was an urgency, and the council invested £30 million pounds of its own money to build a state-of-the-art fantastic, special school.

Carrie Grant: That's amazing. But how many local authorities have got a spare £30m?

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Julie: Well, we haven't got any left now, but the priority, the priority was to build the special school

Nuala McGovern: And also to make money back, if I can put it that way, by cutting the transport bill.

Julie: Because children are no longer sitting in a taxi going miles.

David Grant: Yeah.

Julie: The school is there where they live, but the cost of home to school transport is now half a million pounds less than it was.

David Grant: Yes.

Julie: Because not only did we open Kensington Queensmill special school, but we also since then have opened something called Freston Junction, which is just a small 12 place provision for teenagers with social, emotional, mental health needs attached to alternative provision rather than a special school.

David Grant: Mm-hmm.

Julie: So that caters for a different need of young person.

Nuala McGovern: One other aspect, Judy, there is a shortage of educational psychologists, without them, the assessment process grinds to a halt. Your council claims to have no educational psychologist vacancies, no problems recruiting, and manages to retain briefly how?

Julie: Hard work. (Laughter)

Um, I think we recognize the skillset that an educational psychologist has, our services headed up by two amazing co-principal psychologists, and we want to make sure that the job is interesting, the job is rewarding, that they're valued, that what they signed up for when they trained to be psychologists is what they're doing.

So that means that it's not just about assessments that are being churned out into plans or advice to tribunals, that actually, they have an opportunity to use those skills to change.

Nuala McGovern: More face-to-face?

Julie: So what they would do is, our two co-principals have written a training program based on how do we support our primary schools in managing some of the more complex behaviour that we've seen post COVID. And schools are sort of saying “we don't know what to do”, schools asked for help and we have a psychologist who leads on emotional, behavioural, school avoidance. We have a psychologist who leads on youth justice and young people known to youth offending services. We have a psychologist who leads on young people who are educated otherwise or looked after, so they have these real areas of interest where they can research and disseminate good practice and train others.

Nuala McGovern: I want to pop back to Kate McGough from the BBC education team in Salford. You've been listening in. Can you shed a little light on how often local authorities are actually missing legal deadlines?

Kate McGough: Yes. It's when it comes to EHCPs being issued, it is over half the time on average, that councils are missing that legal deadline, so it is supposed to take no longer than 20 weeks to get an EHCP.

That's from when your council receives the needs assessment, but only 46% of councils are meeting that deadline. You know, most of them are taking up to a year and for about 6,000 youngsters or about 7% of them, it's taking more than a year in the latest stats that we have. Um, but when you look at wider complaints to the local government ombudsmen, there are over 1,100 complaints about SEND upheld last year. Um, the biggest proportion within education complaints.

Parents, carers, young people, can appeal against the decisions that the local authorities make, especially when it comes to EHCPs. And the latest stats do show a record number, another increase of about 18% on the previous year. So, um, basically in the last academic year that we've got stats for, which was up to the end of 2025, there were 25,000 registered SEND appeals.

Most of them, about 60% were about the content of EHCPs. And about a quarter of them were around refusing to do an assessment. Um, and like you said, in almost all of the time, 99% of the time, they're found in favour of the families.

Nuala McGovern: What do local authorities say about why that is, their statement?

Kate McGough: So in a statement to us, they did acknowledge challenges within the SEND system, but they said that councils are developing innovative ways to mitigate some of those. They listed things like, you know, involving local groups of parents and carers much more in the strategy of their local SEND system, looking at developing local specialist provision and building inclusive capacity in mainstream schools. Um, but they've previously said, you know, that reform of the SEND system is needed urgently, it's unavoidable, but it needs to be financially sustainable for councils when it comes.

Nuala McGovern: And that's the LGA, the Local Government Association. And the government's position, Kate?

Kate McGough: Yeah. They told us in a statement that families have been failed by the SEND system for too long, that they're engaging with parents, teachers, local authorities to fix the system. And they've pointed to what they've already announced, a £3 billion investment into creating 50,000 specialist places. They said they're going to set up their full plans to reform the system through the school's White Paper this year, in the coming weeks. And they did point out that, that their changes will make sure that children get support at the earliest stage and they are also pointing to that they want to bring about financial sustainability for councils.

Nuala McGovern: Thanks, Kate.

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Now I want us all to listen to a local authority SEND case worker who we are calling Rebecca. She got in touch because she wanted to talk about the realities of her job. As she wanted to remain anonymous, her words are spoken by an actor. I first asked her why she wanted to become a SEND case worker.

Rebecca: So, yeah, it was my experience as being the parent of a child with special educational needs. Our journey started about 10 years ago when our child was in primary school. We were struggling to get the support that he needed, so we thought, let's get him an Education, Health, and Care Plan.

But of course, as is the case for many parents, first of all, they refused to carry out the needs assessment. So we took them to tribunal. Then once we had the assessment, agreed, they refused to issue the Education, Health, and Care Plan. So we took them to tribunal again, we got there in the end, but it was a, it was a long struggle for us, and you know, my husband and I were, were just a bit baffled as to how like two reasonably intelligent, well-educated people couldn't navigate this system on their own.

I started thinking about all the families out there whose children's needs were perhaps greater than ours. And I thought I had something to offer in terms of not only now understanding a little bit better how the system works, but also being able to empathise with parents and support them through the process. So I suppose that's what I hoped.

Nuala McGovern: So you wanted to give back and make a difference, obviously. And I'm wondering, do you feel you've been able to do that?

Rebecca: Uh, not remotely to the extent that I'd hoped I'd be able to, no. I think, you know, there are some small wins. Sometimes the child you're supporting gets the placement that they need, and I'd like to think that some of the hours I've put into working with other professionals, gathering evidence, putting together a, a strong case that for them has helped in the right decision being made.

And sometimes a parent's just really grateful that I've called them unprompted to see how things are going. They've not had to chase me for an update, and I feel in that way I've built good relationships with the families I work with. I try and take time to clarify, to be transparent and to explain our internal processes because that's something we really struggled with as parents, but ultimately the outcomes still aren't always what they hope for.

But I think if in some way I can make the process a little bit less painful, then I, I suppose that's making a small difference.

Nuala McGovern: Right. So you talk about small wins there. But what are the big wins that you haven't been able to achieve that you thought you might be able to before you went into this role?

Rebecca: I think ultimately there are always families who are disappointed and feel that their child is not getting the support that they need to, to do as well as they could do in school. And you'd like to see all of your families get what they need and, and that's, that's never going to happen.

Nuala McGovern: And because it's the local authority that is making those decisions. But, but what about your job, the actual role, the pressures that you're up against? Can you tell us a little bit what it's like.

Rebecca: Yeah, I, I mean, I think simply it, it's just the hardest and most stressful job I've ever done. I was a project manager for 12 years before I did this, I thought I had a lot of the skills that I would need to do this job relatively well.

I had no idea how complex the role would be. To do the job well, you've got to have a really good understanding of the law around education and SEND, there's lots of legal documents. The Children and Families Act, the Equality Act, the Code of Practice. To get the best outcomes, you've got to work closely with social care, healthcare professionals, sometimes youth justice, all of these, uh, professionals that are working with the families that you work with. And it is just the sheer volume of work. Caseloads are insanely high. And this is not the case for me personally, but I've heard that sometimes caseworkers can have up to 300 cases. And it's simply not possible to stay on top of all the phone calls and emails and admin to give every case the time, the time it needs, and, you know, deserves. I try and prioritise communication with my families because that's, I, I think that's so important. But then I fall behind on the admin and on my performance targets. But then when I'm under pressure, if I prioritise my performance targets. My communication with family suffers. So I can't, I feel like I can't win. And you know, when I first started the role, I worked late into the night several nights a week, but I quickly realised that wasn't sustainable. And you know, no number of extra hours is enough to stay on top of the workload. And I know that's hard to understand unless you've been in the role, but, it's just incredibly difficult.

Nuala McGovern: And you know, I'm also remembering that you are a SEND parent, uh, in the middle of all of this. I'm wondering what tension or challenges that brings up?

Rebecca: Yeah, the reason I came to the role is because I hoped to be able to empathise with and support parents through the process.

But of course having been through that process and understanding just how kind of heartbreaking and lonely and stressful it can be, having a child with SEND it makes it all the harder for me to leave my work behind at the end of the day. I also live in the borough that I work in. My children go to local schools and sometimes, yeah, sometimes I find myself working with families who live on neighbouring streets or who we know through school. And also I'm on a number of WhatsApp groups for local parents of SEND children. And I'm on these groups because they're really useful sources of information for us as parents. Um. But a lot of the messages posted on there are really fiercely critical of the local authority and the people who work there.

And yeah, sometimes they, they make me cry. Sometimes they make me angry and I feel like coming out of hiding and saying, do you have any idea how hard this job is and how hard we're all working and how much we care? Because the implication is that we just don't care sometimes. But I'm afraid of exposing myself in that way. And, also I understand it's almost impossible to appreciate the complexity of the job and the volume of work unless you've actually been in a job and, you know, I have been one of those furiously angry parents myself. So, um, yeah, I, I understand.

Nuala McGovern: You know, many of the parents that I've spoken to have said that the system is broken. Do you agree with that?

Rebecca: Um, I try and avoid saying that because, you know, I try to stay positive and work with what we've got, but I think, you know, the system just wasn't designed for the scale and complexity of the challenge that we've got on our hands.

Nuala McGovern: Where do you think there could be improvements perhaps to even fix it, if that's the right word?

Rebecca: I'm thinking about the things that we struggle with daily at work. The shortage of specialist placements for children where mainstream schools say they can't meet needs. One of the biggest challenges we have, and so many of those children if they do have a placement agreed, are being sent to private out of borough schools and it's expensive. It puts financial pressure on the local authority and also because they're going to schools out of borough SEND transport costs are high.

So yeah, there needs to be more local authority maintained, specialist provision for those with the highest needs. But I think also there's got to be something about mainstream schools being better equipped with the right, um, resources and support and training to meet a broader range of needs. And I think that way interventions can be earlier to prevent things escalating. And also children can stay in schools close to home, which I think is really important to families. And I think, you know, perhaps an EHCP shouldn't be the only way to get support.

Nuala McGovern: I am wondering about you. I mean, I don’t know whether you'd recommend anybody else to take on a job like yours. Will you continue with it?

Rebecca: Yes. I'm, I'm carrying on for now. My husband, uh, my husband would very much like me to give up and do something else, but for now I'm, I'm sticking with it.

Nuala McGovern: And that is Rebecca. Thanks very much to her for speaking to us. Uh, not her real name I should mention, but really interesting to hear from her. Carrie, you've heard what Rebecca would do. Could you give me one thing briefly that you would do to help solve the system?

Carrie Grant: I mean, the, the instant answer has to be, there needs to be more investment, but I think more than anything it's about mindset. I think mindset is everything. If we begin to understand not all people are the same, that changes everything.

Nuala McGovern: Uh, David.

David Grant: I tell you what I, what I do think is to, to put the people who are on the frontline, the parents and the workers in rooms with the policy makers to thrash out a policy that actually works practically.

Nuala McGovern: For all involved. Julie one thing?

Julie: The one thing I think that would make the biggest difference would be to invest in the training that mainstream school teachers have.

Nuala McGovern: I want to pop back to Kate. Uh, we've heard that the government is investing in teacher training on SEND.

Kate McGough: Yes. So the government has announced a new investment of about 200 million pounds for this parliament, and it's to be spent on upskilling staff to support pupils with SEND. It's money that's coming out of the spending review pot, essentially that we already knew about. So, it's a new allocation, but it will be used across all early years settings, schools and further education. So it's building on a lot of the pilots that exist already that have been training staff to recognise SEND better and provide more support, but it's a big injection of cash and will involve some new schemes that we'll hopefully hear about in a bit more detail soon.

Nuala McGovern: I want to turn to our weekly celebration of someone who deserves to be in the spotlight. This week it’s 17-year-old Stephen, who is the only person in the world with his genetic condition, and he was told he would never be able to talk, but now he can and recently won the Contact charity’s Proudest Moment Award.

Here's Stephen and his mum.

Louise: Hi everyone. My name's Louise. And who are you?

Stephen: My name is Stephen.

Louise: How old are you Stephen?

Stephen: Seventeen

Louise: How old are you?

Stephen: Seventeen

Louise: Stephen was diagnosed with a unique genetic condition. It's not got a name. It's a 1Q 25.2 to 31.1.

So Stephen, can you tell people what you enjoy doing?

Stephen: Going to college.

Louise: To see your?

 Stephen: Friends

Louise: What do you learn at college?

Stephen: Life skills.

Louise: And do you like cooking?

Stephen: Yes.

Louise: What do we make at home?

Stephen: Apple crumble

Louise: Muffins?

Stephen: Muffins.

Louise: And what music do you like?

Stephen: Olly Murs

Louise: And have you been to see him in concert?

Stephen: Yes.

Louise: How many times?

Stephen: Three times.

Louise: So when you were diagnosed, do you remember what the doctors told you, you wouldn't do?

Stephen: Not talk.

Louise: Not talk, and you've learnt to talk?

Stephen: Yes.

Louise: Yes. Because you wanted to?

Stephen: Yes.

Louise: You did. Because you want to be independent.

Stephen: Yes.

Louise: So you are standing by your two awards now. You've got your one from the Contact…

Stephen: Yeah, from last year.

Louise: From last year in November.

Stephen: Yes.

Louise: Which recognises…

Stephen: My helping you.

Louise: You talking.

Stephen: Yes

Louise: To help me.

Stephen: Yeah.

Louise: Yes. And your other award is for Fundraiser Of TheYear

Stephen: 2023.

Louise: 2023 you got that. Yes, you did. And you raised money for what sports club?

Stephen: For Define Sports.

Louise: Define Sports which is a disability club.

Stephen: Yes

Louise: Isn’t it? Which, do you go there?

Stephen: Yes

Louise: We got an outreach service in from the specialist school into your mainstream school.

Stephen: Yes

Louise: And they helped you, didn't they?

Stephen: Yes

Louise: And then do you remember mum putting words up around the kitchen?

Stephen: No.

Louise: And asking you to repeat the words? You don't remember that? You were a seven at the time. Um, that's how we, that's how we taught you. Do you know what your first words were?

Stephen: I love you.

Louise: It was “I love you, mum.” It was, it was lovely, I cried. When you did that I cried. I never thought I would hear it, and at seven years of age, that's what you said.

It was always a dream to foster. But having Stephen and then having his diagnosis at age four made me want to foster even more. And I got turned down because of the safeguarding issue of Stephen not being able to talk.

And it took me a year to have Stephen assessed over multiple visits that he would be able to be safe and that he knew how to be safe. We did lots of work around that, didn't we?

Stephen: Yes.

Louise: And, uh, we've had 22 children.

Stephen: Yes.

Louise: And we're in touch with 19 of them.

Stephen: The babies.

Louise: 19 of them. I think we're in touch with.

Stephen: I love all the babies Mum.

Louise: You do. And they're growing up and they're toddlers now, aren't they?

Stephen: Yeah. Thank you all for listening

Louise: To our Story

Stephen: Our Story

Louise: Bye

Stephen: Bye

Nuala McGovern: Stephen and his mum Louise.

Well, I want to know, who would you put in the spotlight? Who should be celebrated for their achievement? Maybe it's your child or an adult who has helped them tell me, and you could end up on the podcast like Stephen and his mum. Email us, send@bbc.co.uk.

Well, that is it for this week. In our next episode, we will be looking at attendance. In the meantime, it's bye from all of us, so …

All: Goodbye.