Who in the Whoniverse is Ruth Madeley?

20th November 2023

bbc.co.uk/accessall

Access All – episode 79

Presented by Nikki Fox and Emma Tracey

NIKKI- You know we did that story not long ago about how some disabled people struggle to weigh themselves?

EMMA- Yes. Good story.

NIKKI- Very good story. Well, I actually got weighed. I went for a specialist hospital appointment and they were like, “How much do you weigh?” I was like, “Anyone’s guess, love”. And they said, “Well, we’ll get you weighed”. And I’m like, “Well, I can’t because I can’t stand up on scales”. And it was like, “Nikki, we’ve got accessible scales here”. And I was like, “Well, first time, love, I’ll tell you”. So, yeah, I got off my scooter, sat on the accessible scales; I now know how much I weigh.

EMMA- For the first time in…?

NIKKI- For the first time in absolutely donkey’s years.

EMMA- Like ten years?

NIKKI- Probably longer. It could be longer, Ems.

EMMA- Wow.

NIKKI- So, much so that I nearly fell off the scales when they told me [laughter]. I mean, you know, it’s just numbers and all of that; let’s not get hung up. It’s good to have a bit of junk in the trunk and all of that [laughs]. But yeah…

EMMA- It’s good to be armed with the information.

NIKKI- It’s good for health reasons. I was about a stone heavier than I thought I was. I certainly don’t feel bad. I love food too much.

EMMA- Love food.

NIKKI- And I will never, ever stop eating lots of lovely food. I’ll just have to be a bit fitter.

EMMA- It’s just that everybody else has the information so why shouldn’t you?

NIKKI- Yeah, and we need to. We need to know where we’re at, eh? If we want to keep in tip-tip condition.

EMMA- Tip-top.

NIKKI- Or the best we can, within reason, then we need to know. Yay for sit-down scales.

EMMA- What is your favourite food?

NIKKI- Do you know what, it’s going to sound really, really bourgeois, avocado.

EMMA- Really?

NIKKI- And it’s not good for the environment as well, so I’m trying to limit, because not good getting flown over from…

EMMA- I don’t know if I’ve ever heard someone say avocado is their favourite food.

NIKKI- I can’t tell you how much I love avocados. I mash them, I squeeze some lemon, have it on some toast. This is just the bourgeois-ist lunch I can imagine. And then maybe a poached egg on top of that.

EMMA- I mean, that does sound delicious.

NIKKI- Oh, it’s so delicious.

EMMA- But I think if I was told to have my last meal I think it’d probably be chips.

NIKKI- [Laughs].

MUSIC- Theme music.

NIKKI- Welcome to Access All. We are the BBC’s disability and mental health podcast. Thank you so much for listening. I’m Nikki Fox in London.

EMMA- and I’m Emma Tracey and I’m in Edinburgh. And it doesn’t come across too clearly on a podcast, this being audio, but we are both disabled people.

NIKKI- Are you joking? It’s all we talk about [laughs].

EMMA- Well.

NIKKI- Coming up this week, that Tardis better have step-free access because Doctor Who returns this weekend and the magnificent actor, Ruth Madeley, well she’s in it. How exciting.

EMMA- She is. I want to ask Ruth whether her wheelchair is bigger on the inside than the outside.

NIKKI- Mm. And later on we are going to be chatting to the shadow disability minister that is Labour’s Vikki Foxcroft.

EMMA- Follow us on X. You can read our articles on the BBC News website. And we do a transcript every week; the best way to find that is through your favourite search engine. We are not just a podcast!

Just a little insight into how we have to sometimes do things here: this next interview was actually recorded before the rest of the show today, and Nikki was stuck in traffic for the start of it, but she does come in near the end.

British TV institution, Doctor Who, is 60 years old this year, and there are three anniversary episodes to celebrate. Starring alongside David Tennant and Catherine Tate in the episode or episodes is fabulous, brilliant, wonderful disabled actor Ruth Madeley. And she is hear for a chat. Hi Ruth. How are you?

RUTH- I’m so happy to be here. Thank you so much for having me.

EMMA- We wanted to ask you, Ruth, lots of different questions about the episodes, about your character, about your set.

RUTH- [laughs]

EMMA- But we are being told that it absolutely has to stay a complete surprise, and we totally understand that. So, we’re going to ask what we can and get out of you what we can.

RUTH- And I will answer what I can, I promise.

EMMA- Okay. So, Ruth, episode or episodes, do we know? Can you say how many?

RUTH- Who knows? Who knows? The Whoniverse knows!

EMMA- The Whoniverse knows, yeah [laughs]. Well, I’m actually no Whovian, I’ll be honest; I’m not an expert on Doctor Who. But I know a guy who is, and he is on the line with me to help me feel a bit less clueless and to maybe ask some sensible questions. It’s Tom Harries, disabled Doctor Who YouTuber. This is his job: he makes videos about Doctor Who, and often talks about disability in them. We call you Tharries, is that right?

TOM- Yes, that’s right, yeah.

EMMA- Well, I’m going to put your research to the test. For people who don’t actually know and who have either been under a rock or in a country where it isn’t on, what is Doctor Who? It’s a kind of a sci-fi thing with Time Lords, kind of family friendly; that’s sort of where I am with it.

TOM- Yeah, pretty much. It’s like a sort of family I guess sci-fi adventure series that stars the Doctor, who’s the lead character, who’s a Time Lord, travels through time, fights monsters, meets people and saves the day. That’s the general gist of Doctor Who.

EMMA- And with that in mind where do you come in, Ruth? What’s your role?

RUTH- So, I play a character called Shirley Ann Bingham, and she’s amazing. She is very, very forward. She’s a badass. She’s Northern. She is fearless. And I love that for her. I can’t tell you what her specific role is and where she fits in.

EMMA- Okay.

RUTH- But I am very, very confident that people are going to really, really enjoy her presence in the Whoniverse.

EMMA- And what does she look like? You I presume, but…

RUTH- She’s a manual wheelchair user. She’s light skinned with dark blonde hair with a thick fringe. And she has awesome, like she power dresses, so she’s got these fabulous blazers and jumpsuits. She’s always just very well put together.

EMMA- And Ruth, what about representation of disabled people, are we in a new era? Are we suddenly we’ve got all these new disabled people, two new disabled people in Doctor Who – well, you’re not new as a disabled actor but new to Doctor Who – do you think we’re getting better?

RUTH- Absolutely yeah. I think it’s long overdue. I mean, it’s about bloody time, isn’t it, [laughs] let’s face it. I do think it’s a new era of inclusion, and it just enhances everything about the show I think. I mean, if you’ve got a character running around with two hearts [laughs] I think it’s not a massive stretch to put a few disabled people in there.

EMMA- Yeah.

RUTH- And that’s one of the wonderful things about Russell T Davies is he is such an ally and such a powerhouse for inclusion, that I think he was always going to do that and he was always going to do that right when he came back.

TOM- I remember you working with him in Years and Years as well. I was curious like whether it – obviously I loved Years and Years and I loved Rosie in Years and Years as well…

RUTH- Oh, thank you.

TOM- …and in that show Rosie is very independent and very well written, and her disability is very much core to her character. And there’s a lot of interesting conversations that take place within that show surrounding that.

RUTH- Yes.

TOM- So, I was wondering if Russell was part of the draw for you to be in Doctor Who? Did he entice you more because it was Russell and you’d worked with him before and you knew how great he was?

RUTH- 100%. If he’d asked me to come and make the tea for everyone on set I’d have been like yeah, just tell me what time.

EMMA- So, Years and Years, a dystopian drama about the near future, am I right?

RUTH- Yes.

EMMA- But honestly, the character of Rosie I think we all said, ah, we just breathed a sigh of relief, I think, there’s a rounded person doing all sorts of different stuff and is disabled also.

RUTH- Also, yeah. And that’s one of the great things about that character is we said it wouldn’t have made an ounce of difference to the story if she’d been blind, deaf, had limb difference, facial difference, it wouldn’t have changed the story of the actual scripts.

EMMA- So, does Russell make sure his sets are accessible, like all of Years and Years?

RUTH- Oh yeah.

EMMA- All of Doctor Who, every bit of it?

RUTH- Every bit of it.

EMMA- Because really want we want to ask about is the Tardis, what do you think of the new Tardis? Is it cool?

RUTH- Oh, you’re going to love it, you’re going to love it. It’s amazing. I was very excited when I saw it, so.

TOM- Excellent. I have to say when I was younger with the Police Box end of it, I always imagined as a kid, because you know with the box itself there’s kind of a lip going up to the doors?

RUTH- Yeah.

TOM- If that makes sense. I always thought, would the chair be able to get over it? Would I be able to flip it back far enough to get into the box? So, to see that that might not be as much of an issue would be great [laughs].

RUTH- I think you and other viewers will be very happy, that is all I will say.

EMMA- [Laughs].

TOM- Fair enough, fair enough.

EMMA- Would it be okay if we tiptoed away from Doctor Who – I know everyone’s very excited, I know Tom Harries you’re besides yourself – but would it be okay if we just moved on to other bits of Ruth’s amazing life and career? Because I saw an Instagram post with a picture of a hand with ring at the weekend.

RUTH- Aha.

EMMA- And a date. Did you or did you not, Ruth Madeley, get engaged recently?

RUTH- I did engaged, yeah.

EMMA- Yay! Congratulations.

RUTH- Very, very thrilled.

TOM- Congratulations.

RUTH- Thank you very much, yes, yes. It was very, very…it’s been a very fun past month [laughs].

EMMA- Yeah, you’ve had a lot going on. And you’ve been with – is his name Joe?

RUTH- Joe, yeah.

EMMA- You’ve been with him for a long time so it’s very exciting, really pleased to see that. He’s been in lots of your documentaries and things, hasn’t he, he’s popped up?

RUTH- Much to his despair. He thinks what I do for a living is hysterical. It’s his idea of hell.

TOM- [Laughs].

RUTH- But yeah, we’ve been together for ten years and we’ve known each other pretty much all our lives.

EMMA- Ah.

RUTH- So, it’s about time I had this ring on my finger [laughter].

EMMA- Is he in the other room by any chance?

RUTH- No, he’s not.

EMMA- Have you chosen your dress yet?

RUTH- No, not yet. I’m literally three weeks engaged, so I’m trying to pace myself.

EMMA- [Laughs].

RUTH- But it’s going to be beautiful, I’m telling you!

EMMA- Ah, of course it is. Because you’ve done a lot of fashion recently: you’ve been in Vogue; you’ve been on the London Fashion Week catwalk. Is this is a new joy for you?

RUTH- I mean, funnily enough I’ve always been into fashion, and my grandma was a dressmaker, and when I was very young my plan was always to be a fashion designer. So, fashion has always been a massive part of my world. I love putting together an outfit, I love getting dressed up for events, and I love being dressed by designers. But this year to be able to do London Fashion Week was a very new thing and I loved it. I’m a sponge, I love doing different things.

EMMA- Yeah.

RUTH- I like finding interest in different things, and then I like moving on to something else. I just feel very privileged to be able to do it all.

EMMA- And that was with Victoria Jenkins’ label, and she’s been on our podcast a couple of times, and she makes adaptive and beautiful clothes that disabled people can get into. Hooray!

RUTH- She’s amazing.

NIKKI- Hey guys!

EMMA- Oh my goodness, someone has just shown up at the last minute.

NIKKI- Hi.

EMMA- Nikki Fox is now also in the studio, who got stuck in traffic.

NIKKI- I did. Oh Ruth, how are you darling?

RUTH- I’m good. How are you?

NIKKI- Well, I’m delighted to be here, even if it is just for the last five minutes. For you Ruth, I actually didn’t put any make-up on today. I left an hour earlier. I was like I’m going to get to the Madeley. And as it turned out I didn’t [laughs], I didn’t make it.

RUTH- Well, you did. You’re here.

NIKKI- Ruth, I was going to ask you a question, but I think you might have gone past the old Doctor Who stuff. But I wondered, Russell T Davies, I saw him at an award ceremony and he gave the most amazing speech, I nearly stood up – and I can’t stand up – like, it was just so good.

RUTH- That’s how good he is. That is how good he is.

NIKKI- He is amazing, isn’t he? And I know you guys work really closely together, and I was just wondering is he kind of like an ally or is he just the spotter of really good, well ridiculously good disabled talent I wonder? Or is it both?

RUTH- I mean I feel very privileged to have worked with him in a professional capacity and collaborated with him to create a really authentic disabled character in Years and Years. But then I have been lucky enough from that experience to away from work to be able to call him my mate. He is a true ally. He didn’t have the knowledge of disability and inclusion and all of that stuff for any disability, but when he met myself he was very keen to learn more.

NIKKI- But it is just lovely, isn’t it, when you meet someone like that, especially in your professional life?

RUTH- Absolutely.

NIKKI- That just wants to get it, wants to understand and is interested.

EMMA- Not enough of them.

RUTH- So interested. And you feel so safe when you’re working with him.

NIKKI- Yeah, I love that. Oh, what else did you girls talk about while I was away?

EMMA- Oh, so many things. But we have superfan, Tom Harries, here.

NIKKI- Oh, hey Tom.

TOM- Hi, nice to meet you.

NIKKI- Lovely to meet you darling.

EMMA- We thought it would be nice to give Tom the last question. So, Tom, is there a question that you, a burning question that you wanted to ask Ruth or about Doctor Who? And she might not answer it at all.

RUTH- Try your luck!

TOM- Okay. I’m going to try and make it my best that you can answer. One thing I wanted to ask is there’s kind of a longstanding tradition in fiction of kind of this stereotype of the disabled villain. And I wanted to ask you how does it feel to be the trailblazer in sort of inverting that stereotype in a sense, being a protagonist in one of the biggest shows of the year, one of the biggest science fiction properties ever? Does that mean a lot to you?

RUTH- It’s huge.

TOM- Because I know seeing a protagonist up there with David Tennant it’s so wonderful to see.

RUTH- Ah, well you’re going to make me cry for a start.

EMMA- Ah!

NIKKI- Ah!

TOM- Sorry.

RUTH- You know what, I mean I grew up in a world of when a disabled character was on screen they were usually evil. Their disability was a mark of their badness. As far as I remember I don’t think I ever saw a disabled actor playing a disabled character. So, this whole experience for me has been a lot. For me I do feel that if I’m in a short film, if I’m in one scene of a whole series I always feel so privileged. But to be able to have an important character within such a legacy of a show is hopefully what people have been waiting for for a long time. And I just hope, I sincerely hope I have done you all proud. But at the same time I do think you’re going to love it because Russell is a genius at what he does.

NIKKI- Thank you so much for coming on Ruth.

EMMA- Thank you.

NIKKI- I’m gutted I only got the last five minutes.

RUTH- Don’t be silly. I’m so happy to see you all, and thank you for being so lovely.

NIKKI- Ah!

EMMA- Ah, thank you. And thank you Tom as well.

NIKKI- Thanks Tom.

TOM- No problem. No worries at all.

RUTH- Lovely to meet you Tom.

TOM- Lovely to meet you too.

RUTH- I can’t wait to hear what you think about it, I really can’t.

TOM- I’m looking forward to it. I’m besides myself excited [laughs]. I was just at a convention the other week, so I’m hoping maybe you might start seeing people doing cosplays of you.

RUTH- To be fair if that happened I genuinely think I would – I’m such an emotional person, I’m a nightmare; my other half’s always shouting at me for crying at everything – I think I would break down in tears. I think you’d have to pick me up off the floor. That would be a huge thing.

EMMA- Did you say cosplays?

TOM- Yes, cosplays. That’s when people go to conventions and things they dress up as the characters from various different shows and films and stuff like that. So, you know, we might get a few Shirley Ann Bingham’s in there.

EMMA- Yay! Listen, Doctor Who, the first anniversary special is on Saturday night on BBC One.

NIKKI- Sounds amazing.

EMMA- Afterwards on iPlayer. And you can see Tom Harries on YouTube talking about it, probably for quite a long time, at Tharries, T-H-A-R-R-I-E-S.

TOM- Ah, thank you guys.

RUTH- Thank you guys. See you next time.

JINGLE- Access All.

EMMA- I’m a Celebrity is back, Nikki.

NIKKI- I know.

EMMA- And it made me wonder, have you ever been approached to go into the jungle?

NIKKI- [Laughs] there’s not any of them I could do, Ems. Even MasterChef would be a challenge. When you’re disabled from the top of your head to the tips of your toes, I don’t know whether I’d be any good, would I? And I certainly couldn’t do I’m a Celeb. I mean, I couldn’t do I’m a Celeb for the physicality because I watched it last night, they were jumping out of planes, they were sticking their heads in barrels, they were trying to get stars off these things with snakes.

EMMA- You have to be the right kind of disabled for these shows, is that what you’re saying?

NIKKI- You kind of do, yeah. A bit more kind of, let’s just say a bit of a minor disabled, eh?

EMMA- Could I do it? I think I’d find some of the challenges easier than sighted people.

NIKKI- Oh, you’d be fine because you wouldn’t see the snakes and the spiders and stuff, would you?

EMMA- No. I mean, I’d feel them and I’d have the same sort of gut reaction. But I can go on the highest rollercoasters because I can’t see down.

NIKKI- Really?

EMMA- I mean, I’m sure there are blind people who hate rollercoasters because everyone’s different. But yeah, I probably could do a lot.

NIKKI- What’s the most adventurous thing you’ve ever done? The scariest thing you have ever done, Emma Tracey?

EMMA- I did a skydive once.

NIKKI- Did you?

EMMA- Yeah.

NIKKI- You jumped out of a plane?

EMMA- I did, in California.

NIKKI- Tandem?

EMMA- [Laughs] yes, tandem! And the thing about tandem is if you want to or not you’re going, because they literally…

NIKKI- Yeah, you’ve got no choice.

EMMA- …you sit on the edge and they like bop you out, they just like push off, and off you go.

NIKKI- [Laughs] could you imagine if you had done it on your own, Geronimo!

EMMA- Where am I supposed to land? Not there! not there! [Laughter] not there!

NIKKI- You would literally need someone to boot you out, wouldn’t you? You’d be like, where’s the hatch? I presume you’d feel it when you get there.

EMMA- Oh, someone leads you towards the hatch before it opens. You’re kind of ready to jump out, but…

NIKKI- The ground might be a bit of a surprise.

EMMA- Well, no because you start off in a skydive…

NIKKI- No, but if you did it on your own, Em.

EMMA- Oh, well no because you start off and you go really fast, before your parachute opens you’re just falling from the aeroplane, and the air’s coming at you so quick you have to kind of close your mouth, close your eyes. It’s unbelievable. It just feels like you’re falling out of an airplane, as you are. And then your parachute opens, and then it’s quite sort of la, la, la, la.

NIKKI- This is a very average description here, Ems. I was expecting more, I’ll be honest. You jump, you feel air and then your parachute opens [laughs].

EMMA- You feel like you’re falling out of an aeroplane. Your stomach’s in your mouth.

NIKKI- There you go, get a bit audio descriptive, love. Come on!

EMMA- I mean, also you’re attached to someone else. And you're falling like a stone. Falling like a stone! And then they’re like, “Right we’re going to open the parachute now”. And you’re like does it open, will it open, or just if it doesn’t I’m dead.

NIKKI- Do you feel your cheeks going all [sucks in breath]?

EMMA- Yeah, sucked in.

NIKKI- Oh sucked in, okay.

EMMA- I didn’t love that bit actually. Can you tell? I didn’t love the falling out of the aeroplane.

NIKKI- No.

EMMA- But I didn’t mind when the parachute opened, because you’re kind of floaty, floaty. You can hear people on the ground before you hit it.

NIKKI- You’re a daredevil, Emma Tracey.

EMMA- So, it’s not too bad. Well, yeah, I wouldn’t do it again.

NIKKI- [Laughs] done once, never again.

EMMA- I also climbed Machu Picchu, I wouldn’t do that again either.

NIKKI- Oh here we go, it’s all coming out now, isn’t it?

EMMA- I know. You thought I was not that disabled person, didn’t you?

NIKKI- No, I didn’t think you’re not that disabled person, Emma, no. You did tell me once you did some kind of walking challenge and you got a coach halfway to take the weight off your feet.

EMMA- I literally got a coach for a mile or two, anyway.

NIKKI- It was still a mile, Emma Tracey.

EMMA- Well, listen, could you do a parachute jump, skydive tandem thing?

NIKKI- No. I did always want to do it when I was younger, and then someone told me that because I’d dislocated my knee I wouldn’t be able to do it because it would just pop out. And then has I’ve got older I’ve developed a little bit of a fear of heights. I don’t know, when I used to walk I felt a lot higher and I was braver, and now I’ve sat down I’m lower and I’m not brave anymore.

EMMA- So, there’s too far to go basically?

NIKKI- Yeah. I just no. Those things have gone, Ems.

EMMA- As close to the ground as possible. Is it about taking falls? If you fall you’re quite close to the ground.

NIKKI- I just don’t want to do it, Ems. I’m just not adventurous. You know me.

EMMA- But neither am I really.

NIKKI- I spend weekends at home watching movies, pottering in the garden with Dave. I’m happy that way. I enjoy it. I’ve done the adventure but I’ve not been… I mean, when I was younger-younger at school I did white water rafting and abseiling. It’s all coming out now; I’d forgotten about that. Yeah, I did abseil and I could do that and I did enjoy that very much. White water rafting they wouldn’t let me sit on the side of the inflatable side, so I had to go in the middle on this rock hard plate, and I do remember because we went over a big old wave and I went flying forward and got my head wedged under a teacher’s bum. And the water was rising and I couldn’t get out, and I thought that’s how I’m going to die. I thought I was going to die under my teacher’s bum-bum. So, I guess that was the last adventurous thing that I’ve ever done.

EMMA- What would be the most adventurous thing you would do?

NIKKI- I’ll be honest, not much, Ems. I mean, I’d go for a long walk or something.

EMMA- [Laughs].

NIKKI- You know, there’s not really much, is there? But I must admit if I were asked to go on I’m a Celebrity it would be hard for me to say no because it must be a lot of fun.

EMMA- And you get a lot of money, money.

NIKKI- Dosh, yeah.

EMMA- [Singing] money, money, money.

NIKKI- Money! The dosh. And obviously it’s good for the old profile, wouldn’t it? All of those things you’d think that would be all right.

EMMA- You’d have to bring a PA with you though.

NIKKI- Well, I’d like that. Can you imagine me and Libby?

EMMA- Unless one of the celebrities was going to be your PA as well.

NIKKI- Oh yeah, that would be good as well. But could you imagine me and Lib in there?

EMMA- Maybe Nigel Farage could be your PA.

NIKKI- Yeah [laughs].

EMMA- I just don’t know ay of the other names. Oh, there is Sam Johnson, isn’t there?

NIKKI- No, Thomson, Sam Thompson [laughter]. Sam Thompson is in there, Emma Tracey. And Sam is from Made in Chelsea I think. I know he’s got ADHD. And he’s just a lovely guy. It was the opening show last night and he was just hugging everyone. I don’t think Fred Sirieix liked the many hugs that Sam was giving him. But Sam’s very much like me, he’s very needy. In one of the interviews he went, “I just want him to love me” so my money’s on him to win.

JINGLE- Access All with Nikki Fox.

NIKKI- Now, a week is a long time in politics. That’s what they say, don’t they? And our next desk, Vicky, would probably agree, given everything that’s been happening in parliament recently. Now, Vicky Foxcroft is a Labour MP for Lewisham Deptford and the shadow minister for disabled people opposite Tom Pursglove, who we’ve had on the podcast quite recently actually. And with a General Election set to take place at least by January 2025 all the political talk has started to hot up, so we thought that it’s the perfect time to find out what Labour is thinking when it comes to disability. So, we have Vicky in the studio with us now. Hello Vicky.

VICKY- Hiya. Thanks for having us today.

NIKKI- Oh, it’s lovely to have you on. Now, Vicky, I’m going to start with a biggie: who is Vicky Foxcroft? Tell us.

VICKY- Well, that’s quite complicated actually. It depends what parts to me you want to know. So, I’m obviously a politician. I grew up in the northwest. I spent most of my life when I was younger moving about a lot, living in temporary accommodation. I failed all of my GCSEs, but then I went to college, and that was kind of a gamechanger for me. And I didn’t study politics; my politics comes from kind of my heart. I went to university and I did drama and business studies. That was 1996. Somebody knocked on my door and asked me to vote for the Labour party, and that’s how I got more and more involved in politics.

NIKKI- I don’t think you’ll mind me saying this, because you’ve been very open about it, but you also have arthritis, don’t you?

VICKY- Yeah, rheumatoid arthritis.

NIKKI- Rheumatoid arthritis, yeah.

VICKY- I was first diagnosed with it at the start of 2019, and there’s no way of treating it, you can just manage it. But that was quite a scary moment for it.

NIKKI- You have to manage your own health, don’t you, and you have to take time off for appointments. Work is such a big thing for a lot of disabled people; those sorts of things must very much help in your brief?

VICKY- Yeah, definitely. I obviously take medication. But actually when I started in the brief was at the start of COVID and of lockdown, and because of the medication that I take I actually had to shield myself. So, before that point I’d not particular felt disabled. But after that point when you’re not allowed to go out, you’re not allowed to have a walk like everybody else is, then I was like oh, I now understand.

NIKKI- Just give us a quick rundown of what your job entails?

VICKY- I have to hold the government to account. So, I challenge Tom Pursglove quite a lot in parliament. The other stuff that we’ve got to do is formulate our policies for the next General Election.

NIKKI- There’s lots of big ones, aren’t there: employment benefits, social care, I mean there’s so much. Maybe let’s start with work?

VICKY- I’ve never spoken to a disabled person who doesn’t want to work. But what disabled people do tell me is it’s the barriers that are in society that stop them being able to work. We have to tackle health and work together, making sure that people do have their care packages that they need, that they have access to healthcare in a timely fashion. But kind of along with that we’ve got an Access to Work system that in theory, if you know about it and you get through the system, is cracking. But it’s not actually accessible to everybody. And so we need to make sure that we reform Access to Work, that we make sure that it’s accessible, that we make sure that it’s simplified, and actually that people get their awards in a timely fashion.

EMMA- So, what would you do to Access to Work?

VICKY- One of the things straightaway is to make sure that people got indicative awards early on so that they weren’t waiting for ages. But genuinely working with disabled people to be able to come up with what needs to happen in terms of the system. But it doesn’t just touch on Access to Work, because we also have a problem of reasonable adjustments in the workplace and where employers might decide they’re not going to make those reasonable adjustments. So, we need to make sure that we go and enforce that further.

EMMA- But how?

VICKY- This is the reason why I was saying that parts of this need to be working together with disabled people about what we know, we’ll make sure that that happens. What are the barriers and where do we need to legislate on certain areas? So, that’s our approach. But we’ve said that we’ll make sure that we have mandatory disability pay gap reporting and mandatory disability employment reporting. Which is really important because until you know kind of what you’ve got and you open up the transparency of all the different companies it’s hard to then kind of keep focusing on the changes.

NIKKI- Am I right in assuming you might be for targets maybe being transparent that companies need to hire x amount of disabled people?

VICKY- So, I’m conflicted on this. What I don’t want to see is a system where companies just look to tick a box and not actually do things that really change to make sure we employ more disabled people. But if they don’t do stuff then we do need to do more. If we look at the Disability Confidence Scheme you can achieve level one by doing nothing. So, I’m level two; I haven’t particularly changed very much to get to that stage. When you get level one by just attending an event and then do nothing about it how’s that fit for work? So, we’ve also said we need to reform the Disability Confidence Scheme. And my thoughts are we almost need to start at level three.

EMMA- So, you’re actually saying you could do better yourself with employing disabled people if you say you’re at level two and we were to start at level three?

VICKY- Well, no it’s the system and going through it actually. But they need somebody to look at the paperwork.

EMMA- But you would just reform the whole system?

VICKY- Yeah, I think we need to. You can’t have a system that actually doesn’t focus on employing more disabled people and supporting people to be able to do that.

NIKKI- Tom Pursglove did mention that they were going to be reviewing Disability Confidence. We’ve got the Autumn Statement that’s going to be delivered by Jeremy Hunt later on this week. Now, your parliamentary record shows that you’ve always voted against reducing spending when it comes to welfare benefits. But you’ve not been around for votes relating to raising benefits. So, where you do you stand on that, Vicky?

VICKY- Well, that’s a really tough one, and one that could potentially get me in lots of trouble if I talked about spending money. We can’t spend money without growing the economy first. We know that we need to review and reform the benefits system. Disabled people view the DWP as something to be afraid of rather than actually somewhere that will help them and support them into work, but also will ensure they’ve got the support when they need it. And anybody that’s gone through the assessment process will know what a harrowing assessment process it is.

NIKKI- the government are trying to reduce, well they have reduced the amount of paperwork, haven’t they, to be fair?

VICKY- Yeah. Well, we’ve got to make sure that people are supported into work if they want to work. But it can’t be all with the stick; it has to be with the carrot and the proper support put in place. But also that you get the opportunities to get the right job as well, and not just pushed into any job because it suits them in terms of meeting targets. But also when people aren’t able to be working we also need to make sure that they’re supported.

EMMA- Can we talk about education? Labour, one of your five missions is to break down barriers to opportunities and ensure there isn’t a class ceiling. So, they’re talking about richer versus poorer families. But what does all of that mean for children with special educational needs and disabilities?

VICKY- We need to make sure that EHCP is fixed so that when people have health needs that they need to be met in school that actually they get that, and that people aren’t having to go through tribunals. And to be honest, this does relate to class as well because quite often it’s the middle class parents that can fight for it.

NIKKI- That’s an Education Health and Care Plan is it you’re talking about, the EHCP?

VICKY- Yes.

NIKKI- Which is a plan that parents often need to get for their children to get them the right provision?

VICKY- Precisely. And we need to make sure that we reform that and that people get those plans in place in a much quicker fashion. We also need to have mainstream education that’s actually fully inclusive, making sure that the support is there, that the buildings are fit for purpose.

EMMA- So, not special schools then? Would you be more for mainstream?

VICKY- I think you have to have parental choice. But I think the one thing that is uniting in terms of this is the reason why a lot of people don’t want to send their children to mainstream education is because they don’t think it’s fit for their children. And actually we need to ensure that we have a mainstream education that is fit for their children. It will take years of time and investment and training.

EMMA- The money’s just not there though, is it?

VICKY- But that’s the reason why we’ve got to grow the economy and get the money there.

NIKKI- A lot of families will always say that my child needs specialist provision, and that might be because their disability is more complex. Would you accept that there will always be a need for a specialist provision?

VICKY- I think there would be until mainstream was that inclusive. It will take years to go and do this, but part of it is the ethos around making sure that we want to get there.

EMMA- So many attempts have been made though to try and fix specialist education, but also the EHCP. What would you do differently?

VICKY- We’ve got a big review taking place at the moment about how you ensure that people do get those awards quickly. Because getting them in a timely fashion is a really big gamechanger in terms of future prospects and in terms of making sure that you can get a decent education.

NIKKI- And we know that in order to go to school and to hold down a job for all of these things for a lot of people it starts with the right support and care at home. Because if you can’t get out of bed you can’t got to work. What are Labour’s plans to fix this system? It’s huge and, again, hugely expensive.

VICKY- Yeah, I’m sure you’ve seen that Wes Streeting commissioned a review in term of this. But as you said, it’s quite expensive and we can’t commit to unfunded spending stuff. But I think it does point to a direction of travel where we would want to get to. We also have very much a home-first approach, so making sure that people can stay in their homes, that they’re not going into, I mean let’s be honest, care homes aren’t really fit for purpose. But also towards delivering a national care service so that we would have national standards across the country that people could expect.

NIKKI- Because if you cannot – and disabled people will say this, every disabled person I’ve met would have said this to me – if you cannot live independently and be the master of your own destiny you ain’t going to get anywhere in life, and there’s no point in having an aspiration or a dream because it’s just not going to happen for so many.

VICKY- Yeah, and that’s the reason why we are really committed to the home first approach.

NIKKI- And cost of living huge, huge issue.

VICKY- Yeah.

NIKKI- I mean, what do you plan to do to improve that situation? We know that more disabled people live in poverty. We know it’s so difficult now for so many, for so many reasons as well.

VICKY- Yeah absolutely. And that’s the reason why we have the stuff that we’ve said in terms of supporting people into work, growing the economy, making sure that we deal with all of the economic problems that we will inherit at that stage. But also making sure that people can move on in work as well and be able to get better jobs throughout their career. And also making sure that work actually does pay properly.

EMMA- Vicky just quickly, before we finish, can I ask are Labour going to be picking up that Mental Health Act that was dropped and wasn’t mentioned in the King’s Speech? 2018 the first official talk was about it, but the Act’s been there since 1983, so people have been looking for reforms for a long time. So, can you confirm then that Labour will be picking up these reforms and moving forwards with them?

VICKY- Yes, absolutely.

NIKKI- Vicky Foxcroft, it’s been lovely to meet you?

VICKY- Thanks for inviting us.

NIKKI- Woah, we’ve had a cracking couple of interviews today, haven’t we, Ems? Well, you can check out more of our interviews, because we’ve got some more goodies, over 79 episodes. My goodness, 79 episodes. From shampoo commercial girl, Lucy Edwards – I love Lucy – to singer/songwriter Victoria Canal – that was probably one of my favourite interviews actually we’ve done so far – we’ve got TV presenter, Gail Porter, comedian Chris McCausland, and so much more.

EMMA- Next week we’re heading to space with our favourite disabled astronaut, John McFall. And within the next few weeks we’re going to have Simon Minty off that there Gogglebox as well.

NIKKI- I love watching Simon on Gogglebox. We both know him and we both adore him.

EMMA- Yeah.

NIKKI- He’s very much a friend of the pod. He hosted the pod, didn’t he, before it was Access All?

EMMA- He did for absolutely ages, and he was fantastic. And I can’t wait to get a chat with him.

NIKKI- Yeah, he’s so famous now, I love it. And don’t forget our podcasts are now out every Monday night, which is why Emma and I will never sleep again on a Sunday. We’re kicking off the week instead. So, until next time people, goodbye.

EMMA- Goodbye.

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