The Entertainers

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IN TOUCH – The Entertainers

TX: 27.12.2022 2040-2100

PRESENTER: PETER WHITE

PRODUCER: BETH HEMMINGS

Music - piano

White

Good evening.

Music – piano

White

I’m sure you will all recognise that. At this time of year everyone wants to be entertained but it’s only given to a few to be entertaining but tonight, we’ve got a studio full of them. Represented here tonight we’ve got stand-up, TV and film acting, cartoons, pantomime and none of my guests are planning to let their visual impairment stand in their way.

So, let’s get you all to introduce yourselves and tell us what you’re doing professionally over the Christmas festivities – if anything.

Wallwork

Hi, I’m Ellie Wallwork. I’m a 22-year-old film and TV actor and over the festive period I’m fundraising for a short film that I’m creating.

Stollery

Hi, I’m Eleanor Stollery. I’m 11 years old, I’ve performed on stage and I’m the voice of a cartoon character.

Sawyers

Hi everyone, my name is Jake Sawyers. I am an actor, comedian, drag queen – whatever pays the bills really – and over the Christmas period I am performing in a pantomime – Snow White.

White

Let’s start with Ellie because Ellie, I think, we can claim, on In Touch, we were early to spot your talent because as far as I make it, you first came on to the programme when you were about 12, I think?

Wallwork

I was 12, yes.

White

You were 12 because of a film you were making with a group of blind and partially sighted children. So, an early start – just remind us about that.

Wallwork

It was a film called Imagine, it was filmed in Portugal and I was 11, when I filmed it, I think, so same age as Eleanor now, which is really weird to me, Eleanor, because you’re so confident and I wasn’t. So, I mean, I think, In Touch was my first ever radio interview, any kind of interview at all, really and it really helped me to actually feel a lot more confident.

White

And did you know then, Ellie, that acting was what you really wanted to do?

Wallwork

No, I had no idea. I was more into music, really, when I was younger and I considered, at the time, I’d like to do acting – as kids sometimes do, we think oh I’d love to do that – but it wasn’t until later on that I actually had more of a career in mind for myself with it.

White

Okay. Well, as you pointed out, it may have been an early start for you but we’ve got someone here who you’ve already heard who can beat that – Eleanor, Eleanor Stollery. How old were you when you broke into theatre in possibly one of the most iconic Christmas stories of all time really?

Stollery

I was eight years old and I was in a Christmas Carol at the Old Vic. We were part of a little mailing list for a theatre company and there was an open audition – Tiny Tim in a Christmas Carol at the Old Vic. My mummy and daddy and I spoke to each other about it and we were like – why don’t we just go for it…

White

Turn up.

Stollery

Just go for the experience, yeah. About a week, later, maybe, I got a recall and we were like – this is okay, another amazing experience, a recall for a West End audition. And then about two weeks later, they said – we’d like to offer you the part – and I don’t think, at that time, we quite believed it until the rehearsals started.

White

Right, you got the part but just tell us why you had to stop.

Stollery

Well, the reason is in the name – Tiny Tim – I got too tall.

White

Tiny Tim obviously couldn’t be tall Tim.

Wallwork

I wouldn’t have even thought of that.

Sawyers

I’m still convinced I could be Gavroche in Les Mis and I’m 28, so, I think you’ll be fine Eleanor.

White

Right. But Eleanor, just to stay with you, something even more exciting came along. Just listen to this:

Clip – Milo

Looks like another parcel. Ahh, it smells like coconuts. Can I please have something to eat now?

Coconut macaroons?

Oh yes, please.

Stollery

So, after the first year of Christmas Carol I got an agent and was put forward for quite a few roles and I got the part of Lark in a children’s TV series called Milo, this is on Channel Milkshake in the mornings, every day. And it was just a really amazing experience. I’d never thought that I’d be doing anything like that.

White

Yeah, and Ellie’s quite right, you do sound terrifying confident for your age. Anyway, stay there. Jake, let me bring in you – any child acting for you when you got started?

Sawyers

Yeah, I actually started at the same age. I was watching an episode of Blue Peter, one day they advertised a cooking competition and the prize was to appear on the show every month for a year to cook live. So, myself and my brother entered that competition and I ended up winning the competition, against, I think, it was 12,000 other kids in the UK…

White

Including your brother.

Sawyers

Well, it’s quite a sore subject because my brother didn’t even get past the first round, bless him. But, yeah, I ended up winning and then cooked live on BBC 1 on Blue Peter every month, which was such an amazing experience and I think a great professional grounding at that young age as well.

White

And, you know, with that sort of exposure did the offers come rolling in?

Sawyers

Not immediately, no, I sort of carried on with mainstream school, always wanting to act, present. So, you know, I went to university, I trained in acting and then the parts started coming but I think what I learnt from that young age, not even about acting or presenting, just about existing in this professional industry as a visually impaired person, I think, really helped me out in my adulthood.

White

Now, talking of iconic Christmas entertainment, it doesn’t get anymore traditional than pantomime and you’re in one at the moment, aren’t you?

Sawyers

I am, yes. It’s my panto debut, I’ve never been in a panto before, performing in Snow White down in Swansea at venue number one.

Pantomime actuality – Snow White

And who are you? Squashed tomatoes and stew? You’re as minging as rotten fruit, you are, I’m going to need that new Doctor Who to come and regenerate my eyes. They’ll never be any peach prom queen like moi – the most perfect queen in all the land.

White

You’re not a dame by any chance, are you?

Sawyers

Oh yes I am.

White

I don’t know how I guessed.

Sawyers

Yeah, I’m – so it’s sort of a pint-sized panto, it’s an hour and 15 minutes, it’s at a reduced price so if people can’t afford to go to the bit pantos they can come to ours. So, that means we’re multi-rolling a lot as well. For example, my character is the dame and the villain and then some other characters are doing the same, they sort of smash them together. So, for a debut of panto, it’s a lot but we’re having a lot of fun, we haven’t stopped laughing. We have a lot of apple related pun jokes because Snow White and the apple, which are really fun. We’ve got the – he’s behind you – we’ve got – oh no she isn’t – oh yes she is. And my character gets to do all of them in a dress. So, you know, I’m having a great Christmas.

White

And you’ve also done bits of TV recently as well.

Clip – How This Blind Girl

How this blind girl.

Gatecrashes.

Ten days, that’s shameful care.

I just need to know if he’s still into me.

And turning up uninvited to a complete stranger’s house party is the way to do that? So, Dylan still has no idea that you’re blind, does he?

So far, so good.

It’s part of [indistinct words].

There’s nothing more terrifying than walking into a crowded room and having no idea who’s in there, you can’t see them but you know they can see you.

I think all the people on this programme recognise that feeling. Just tell us a bit more about that Jake.

Sawyers

Oh, listening to that fills my heart with so much joy. So, that was a clip from How This Blind Girl, created by Mared Jarman. And we both got to this point where we were like we need to create our own work, there are these stories that are being untold about sight loss, about disabled life in general. And so, she created this pilot – How This Blind Girl – and she wrote me the part of her best friend and she told me and I thought – oh this is going to be the hardest acting role of my life, acting as the blind best friend.

White

And this has been on BBC 2 in Wales, yeah?

Sawyers

Yes it has and it’s also available on the iPlayer as well. There are three five-minute episodes, really short, really snappy.

White

I think we got the picture of that. Ellie, I mean, you have had some very high-profile TV parts – Doctor Who – which we, amongst others, were all over like a rash. But you were also in Call the Midwife:

Clip – Call the Midwife

Marion can’t see. She’s a danger to herself. So, imagine what she might do to a baby.

Well, can’t you help, you’re her sister after all?

I don’t want her to. She told me I was selfish and I had no right to bring a baby into this world.

It is selfish.

So, you were playing a blind expectant mum there being given grief by your sister. Do you remember that? It’s all a bit of a while ago now isn’t it.

Wallwork

Yeah, no, I have very clear memories of all of it. So, it’s really funny because the woman who played Beryl, who was my sister in the show, is absolutely lovely, I’ve never met such a wonderful woman. And obviously, she’s playing this character who is very against her blind sister having a baby and she says some really horrible things.

White

I mean it’s clear there that a point is being made and I guess what it was attempting to do, on the whole, was point out how inappropriate that was. I’m just wondering how much sort of say you had in that part? Did they say – are you comfortable playing this?

Wallwork

Yeah, they did. I had quite a lot of input in making sure that it was as representative as possible and I think the difficulty here is that it’s set in the sixties and the sixties was not a tolerant time for anybody. And so, having to play that role was very difficult because I became extremely aware of how lucky I am now to have been brought up in a time where we don’t have as much prejudice as we had back in the sixties. I’ve never had “easy” (in quotation marks) roles, I’ve always had roles that are quite challenging.

White

It doesn’t get much more mainstream, I suppose, than Doctor Who and Call the Midwife. Was that the direction that you wanted, actually, to go in or were you looking for something a bit more serious?

Wallwork

I don’t really know. I don’t think I ever had any expectations. I mean being on such a high-profile show is quite intimidating anyway and so I think I was in control of the story that was being told insofar as I am telling that story through my actions and through my words, even if those words hadn’t been written specifically for me.

White

But your very latest project, you’re definitely in control of, that’s the idea, isn’t it?

Wallwork

Yes, absolutely, such a breath of fresh air. So, at the moment, I’m co-writing a short film, an LGBTQ+ drama short film called Picturesque. So, I’m co-writing it and sort of also helping with the production of it with my co-director, Will Hextall. I’m going to also be playing the main character, called Mills, who is a blind queer woman and it’s really all about her relationship with her girlfriend, they have quite a turbulent relationship, it’s not always sunshine and roses. I really want to illustrate in this that everyone is deserving of love.

White

I was just thinking, actually, it’s all very well for me to be sitting here doing the interviewing but Eleanor, this is a great opportunity for you, actually, to be asking these old timers – Jake and Ellie – about the business, particularly from the point of view of a visually impaired actor trying to get in it.

Stollery

Well, Ellie, I know you just said that you didn’t really have any expectations but do either of you – really, really looking forward to doing anything or really want to reach for anything?

Wallwork

Can I answer this one?

White

Yeah, because she’s very clever, is Eleanor, because she’s pinched one of my questions really, which – because I was thinking about ambitions and things you really wanted to do. You go first Ellie and then Jake.

Wallwork

I’ve explored Sci-Fi, I’ve explored sort of the whole gritty realism of Call the Midwife. I really, really, really want to get into fantasy. My real dream is to hold a sword and to be able to film whilst holding a sword – that’s all I really want from life. I want to be able to do things that I wouldn’t have thought I’d be able to do and see where that takes me.

White

I’m quite relieved, in a way, that Ellie isn’t actually in this studio with me if she’s going to go wielding swords about the place. Jake, long term ambitions?

Sawyers

I mean, honestly, Eleanor, I would like to perform at the Old Vic and voice a kids’ TV character on Channel 5 – that is my actual dream. But that role’s already taken. For me, though, I’ve really enjoyed, recently, creating my own work. I’ve got something coming out in the New Year which I led on and acted in as well and that’s just been so liberating. I think, sometimes, as an actor you get to a point where you just think – right, I’m a bit tired now of doing what other people are telling me to do, I need to take this into my own hands and tell the stories I want to.

White

Eleanor, are there any practical questions you want to ask? You know, how you get scripts, are they presented in a way that you want – has that been an issue for you?

Stollery

Um, so, first of all, do either of you read braille?

Wallwork

I do, yes.

Sawyers

I don’t, no, I’m a large print kind of boy.

Stollery

So, my daddy, at home we have an embosser, and he will…

White

That’s cool.

Sawyers

No, that is exciting.

Stollery

And he will adapt my scripts slightly for me, so that it’s slightly less to read. So, he’ll cut out all of the other lines. So, it was lot less under my fingertips and he would then emboss it for me, and then I’d just take to the studio. I found it easier when it was on paper, just because if I had my big clunky device with my braille note touch plus with me, you know, you’d be able to hear the clicking of the keys every time I read the line and it would be – it wouldn’t be very good over the microphone.

White

Let me ask Ellie this. Companies, you know, the BBC, Channel 5 or a stage company, do you push them to do things…

Wallwork

Yes.

White

… or do you think, I’d better try to be as kind of normal, in their terms…

Wallwork

No, absolutely not.

White

… and not – never, you don’t?

Wallwork

So, I’ve got a really amazing agent who – she is extremely good at pushing for things like this for me. But if, for whatever reason, they send through a script revision, last minute, which has happened a lot, I have to be very clear and say – no, a pdf for me is not adequate, I need a Word document or I would like, if at all possible, for you to print it out in hard copy braille. I absolutely will not budge on accessibility and if they aren’t willing to provide for me, I push and I push and I push. I used to feel very bad about it, I used to feel like I was some kind of nuisance or inconvenience but we spend enough time as it is, as visually impaired people, trying to accommodate other people in order to make things easier and things like that, they should do that for us.

White

So, that’s the message Eleanor, you have to push to save your poor old dad writing out all those…

Stollery

There’s only been one casting director or person that’s contacted my agent and said – you’ve told me that you’re going to be putting this visually impaired girl forward, is there anything that I can do to help her read the script – there’s only been one and we were like – thank you so much but it’s okay, you know, it’s only a few lines that I need to learn for this audition but thank you so much, you’ve been the only one that’s said this.

White

Right. There’s one more thing on visual impairment specifically I want to ask you all. How much now is your visual impairment a barrier and how much is it – can it be a tool of your own trade, a sort of useful attribute? Jake.

Sawyers

Yeah, I think it’s a huge benefit. I never see it as a barrier, more for personal reasons, I don’t think we can live our lives thinking that we have something that is a barrier. For example, in my writing, my visual impairment influences that a lot. But even when I’m just performing in something, which has nothing to do with impairment, I’m sort of changing perceptions and everyone on this show, right now, is changing perceptions by just being in that space. Like all the work Eleanor’s doing, those roles may not be about visual impairment but the fact that they’ve got a vision impaired actor performing those is just going to change the way people see how we work, it’s just about changing that landscape of what people can do and what people can’t.

White

And what about you Ellie, do you ever feel they’re just ticking boxes?

Wallwork

I wouldn’t quite say they’re ticking boxes, it’s more that I want to be considered a person who is visually impaired and not just to have my visual impairment be the only thing that gets me roles.

White

Right. We’ve been quite serious some of the time, tonight, I mean it is Christmas, I just wonder about embarrassing funny moments in your careers, sort of partly based on visual impairment. Have you had situations where things have gone wrong because of your visual impairment?

Sawyers

I mean I can’t think of anything specific but I run off comedy, so any time something awkward happens, say, if I trip or somebody points out something that I can’t see, I will always be the first person to make a joke out of it and it’s always a tasteful joke. And if someone else then feels like they can make a joke, I always say, you can but it has to be funny, if I don’t laugh then I’m low key offended. But as hard as it is sometimes being visually impaired it does really come with its funny little moments.

Wallwork

I walked into a wall once when I was filming Doctor Who and I found it hilarious because it didn’t hurt, I was in no danger whatsoever and people didn’t quite understand that I found the humour in it and they were sort of really shocked and confused and I was sort of like – it’s fine because I am finding it funny, it’s not because I despise my disability or anything like that, it’s just because I can see the humour in something that maybe others might find a little bit confusing and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that. We’ve all walked into walls, we’ve all done things that are embarrassing…

White

Have you walked into walls Eleanor?

Stollery

I don’t think I’ve walked into walls but I’ve walked into a couple of doorframes.

White

You’re starting small. You’ll work your way up to walls.

Sadly, we’ve got to leave it there or though perhaps it’s just as well, who knows what else would come out if we went on. The party’s nearly over. Really big thank you to all of you – Eleanor Stollery, Jake Sawyers, Ellie Wallwork – thanks very much. And that’s it from me, Peter White, producer Beth Hemmings and studio manager Sharon Hughes, goodbye.