Gomes sets sights on World Cup

One Question Tim and its a big one. I've been following Ronaldo since his return to Brazilian football and he seems to be banging them in for fun. Will he make a return for South Africa? I haven't been impressed with Wagner Love, Fabiano, Adriano is out the picture, Bruno Alves is spent, South Africa comes too early for Pato so will Phenomeno return?

I may be wrong but didn't Gomes start his career as a striker? I'm sure he once said in an interview he played up front until he was 17 or 18???

Why then would he have problems with sttiking the ball?

#1 "I haven't been impressed with Wagner Love, Fabiano, Adriano is out the picture, Bruno Alves is spent, South Africa comes too early for Pato "

Who's Bruno Alves??

And South Africa comes too early for Pato?? He's a regular starter for Milan, I think he's nailed on for a squad place at 2010.

Did you watch the Confederations Cup?? I thought Luis Fabiano was excellent at present, I cant see Dunga plumping for anybody else as his lone striker. And theres Ronaldos problem, Dunga seems intent on playing a 4-3-2-1 / 4-2-3-1 formation with room for only one centre forward. Itll be Luis Fabiano plus Pato, plus two from a very long list that includes Nilmar, Adriano, Ronaldo, Grafite etc.

Tim with reference to the number of top Brazilian goalkeepers in Europe now (Doni, Julio Cesar, Gomes etc), which of the current crop of Brazil based goalkeepers would you next expect to make their mark over here?? The recently called up Victor of Gremio, Bruno of Flamengo (although I understand hes been poor recently?), Felipe of Corinthians or maybe Fabio of Cruzeiro on the back of his Copa Libertadores heroics?? Thanks.

When I was in brazil a few years back I watched games in many of Brazil's football stadiums the Maracana in Rio the Marumbi in Sao paulo as well as in Sanots, Floraopolis and Belo Horizonte but whilst I was In Salvador de bahia there was no real team in the town to watch as they where in the third division. Why has one of Brazils biggest and historical cities not got a successful football team?

Sorry for being so off topic but with various sources stating that Manchester United are moving closer to signing the 20-year-old Brazilian midfielder Douglas Costa from Gremio. The only stumbling block seeming to be Gremio's valuation of their player who's has not yet played 20 senior games, can you please shed some light on the young mans talents.

It's a very interesting argument Tim. One that seems to be true in Europe: I mean how often do clubs from outside major cities get to the final rounds of the Champions League, Villarreal and that's it.
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Hi Tim, I know you've discussed Douglas Cost in the past but given todays stories of Man Utd making an initial £7 million bid for him I was wondering whether you think that represents value for money. Obviously there is a lot of hype around the player but it still seems odd United are be so keen on him.

Obviously stats never tell the whole story but his figures at Gerimo are hardly anything to shout about. 1 goal in 12 appearances and that came in the 2008 season, compare that with the likes of Rohnadinho (7 goals in his first two seasons) and Kaka (23 goals) and even Anderson (7 goals in Serie B). The more I read about him, the more similar he seems to Anderson, talented but inconsistent and with a tendency to lose his positional play and run down blind alley's.

The quality of the media's coverage in Britain is shocking to the extent that I'm not sure that the people writing the articles have seem more than outube compliations of his play or indeed if his position is attack midfield or just attack, I'm hoping for United that it's the former given our lack of quality in that position. But even if that is the case Im far from convinced Costa would be the answer to our problems. If you were looking to sign a young playmaker from the Southern American leagues who would you recommend?

This blog is the only thing I look forward to reading on a Monday morning back to the office. I found today's post a wonderful piece, full of facts and football history, thanks for that.

Re Gomes, I have no doubts he is a class goalkeeper and he proved his quality overcoming a difficult start in the Premierleague last season. However, Julio Cesar is making his mark with the number 1 shirt and he is one of the few certainties for the next WC. Gomes, like the people from Minas Gerais are known (and some may disagree with me), is far too laid back. Okay, Gilberto Silva is also a mineiro and has been around since 2002 so yes, Gomes is a possibility for 2014 but I have my doubts.

I fully agree with your opinion that Brazil won the 2002 WC due to the physical preparation. It wasn't only based on talent alone. Cafu was in such a good shape he could easily run marathons. This is also the reason why they won the last Confederations Cup - in the second half where most of the players played a full season, plus WCQ, plus CL, plus friendlies. They need the lungs working well to perform their tricks. They have the top medical and fitness preparation people in the country working for them, it's serious business.

And yes, samba is not everyone's cup of tea in Brazil.

Heurelho Gomes and Henrik Larsson - separated at birth!?

[Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]

After seeing Ronaldo's hatrick last week (one with his left, two with his right wasn't it?) it's clear that the finesse of how he strikes the ball is still there. It's a delight to watch. The only way I can see him being recalled is if he loses about a stone in weight.

I was wondering whether the top Brazilian stars face a different kind of pressure to their Argentinian counterparts? Tim, you were kind enough to comment on my thoughts a couple weeks ago of Ronaldinho being mentally shot after the pressures of 2006 and I thought further on this last week.

I may not be looking at this objectively but maybe because of their social backgrounds, Ronaldo at the world cup final in 1998 and Ronaldinho in 2006, both came under what I would describe as intense claustrophobic pressure. I don't think this pressure is common across all top Brazilian stars, I saw the media frenzy when Kaka attended Robinho's wedding at the weekend and I don't think the pressure he faces is the same as what Ronaldo faced in the 98 final or Ronaldinho in 2006. Perhaps it could change at next years world cup, but maybe because he comes from a different social background then things are different for him and what he represents.

I don't know if the pressure I described above is afflicted on the 'chosen' Argentine players, perhaps Messi's cause is helped because he moved to Spain when he was 12 or maybe the pressure on Argintine superstars is different again?

#7 captmatt_williams

we've had porto, monaco, dortmund, leverkusen, marseille in the champions league final. plus liverpool isn't that major a city in the context of the UK and nor is turin in italy, juventus' home-town.

The Leeds and Villareal, was hardly a clash of metropolises?

You state that Gomez 'has the talent, dedication and character to be a top class goalkeeper'. If Gomez has that ability then so do 10,000 other goalkeepers...
Is it not true that Gomez was the single reason that Spurs were in the relegation zone at the start of the season? Is it not true that Gomez was the reason Spurs sacked their goalkeeping coach in November? But then again, your article does stand up in the context of Brazilian goalkeepers because who is Brazil's third choice goalkeeper at the moment? The answer a bloke called Renan who isn't even first choice goalkeeper at Valencia because he's behind, you've guessed it, César Sánchez. If you don't remember him he's the guy Spurs signed in the summer of 2008 and released in January 2009, with Harry Redknapp stating due to a mixture of injury and Gomez's pathetic performances 'We need another good goalkeeper and if I'd had confidence in the Spanish keeper [Cesar Sanchez] then I would've played him'. Ouch. Surely the point in your article shouldn't be about how wonderful and what a fairy tale Gomez is but how, with Júlio César's exception, Brazil are incapable of producing any half decent goalkeepers.

#3: "Who's Bruno Alves??"

Apologies, it is a very badly remembered Martins Afonso Alves

"And South Africa comes too early for Pato?? He's a regular starter for Milan, I think he's nailed on for a squad place at 2010."

Agreed. Squad Place. But I think he will be a very desperate second or third choice.

"Did you watch the Confederations Cup?? I thought Luis Fabiano was excellent at present, I cant see Dunga plumping for anybody else as his lone striker. And theres Ronaldos problem, Dunga seems intent on playing a 4-3-2-1 / 4-2-3-1 formation with room for only one centre forward. Itll be Luis Fabiano plus Pato, plus two from a very long list that includes Nilmar, Adriano, Ronaldo, Grafite etc."

Yes. Fabiano needs two or three chances when R9 needs one. Nilmar is in the same position as Pato if not further down, Adriano isn't even playing football at the minute, Grafite is suffering from the out of sight out of mind Brazilian condition plus, he's more a replacement for Robinho or Kaka rather than a replacement for Fabiano.

In terms of strikers Ronaldo is the elephant in the room (not literally, honest). He is there most complete striker, but with a serious fitness problem.

7. At 09:59am on 13 Jul 2009, captainmatt_williams wrote:

It's a very interesting argument Tim. One that seems to be true in Europe: I mean how often do clubs from outside major cities get to the final rounds of the Champions League, Villarreal and that's it.
https://jumpersforgoalposts1212.wordpress.com/

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Not really the same is it?

Yes most clubs in europe are from major cities, but the difference is the massive drop off in South America outside of those areas. Most leagues are not just dominated by the major cities in terms of winner but often in terms of participants.

Whereas in England for Example the top flight contains multiple teams from London (Arsenal, Chelsea, Fulham, Spurs, West Ham), Manchester (Utd, City), Liverpool (Liverpool, Everton) and Birmingham (City, Villa), the rest are spread throughout the country. A situation that is even more spread out in mot other top european leagues.

14
Bit harsh really. Yes Gomes did make a lot of mistakes at the start of the season but Spurs were rubbish too it was not all his fault. Also after Harry took over and the goalkeeping coach changed he was a lot more consistent and looked to be one of the better premier league goalkeepers. On the subject of Goalkeepers there does not seem to be that many great ones around. Buffon , Casillias and Cesar and then a large gap to the good but not great category.

14.

Have you followed football the last 6 months? Have you not heard the glorious praise of Gomez from Redknapp? He was brilliant in the second half of the season and in the side that rose from the bottom to 8th. Not to mention his great form in Holland before he made the move to Spurs.

Renan was brilliant for Valencia in the first half of the season but was troubled by injuries, he is the first choice goalkeeper for Valencia. While Julio Cesar is possibly the best goalkeeper in the world at the moment.

Also on the point of Adriano, I still think he could make the 2010 squad. He offers the Brazil squad something different, last I heard he had scored 4 goals in 4 games for Flamengo, hopefully he can get back to his best. Would love to see Ronaldo in the squad as well, playing brilliantly for Corinthians a hat-trick against Fluminese in the last game, got to love him!

Love the blogs Tim.

The mistakes that Gomes made last season were verging on the slap stick. For a keeper who cost £12million to make a couple was bad but it turned into a weekly occurence and couldn't believe Redknapp stuck by him as he cost at least 12 points over the season. South American goalies have never convinced me.

gomes looks older than he really is huh? i was reading an article about tevez's childhood with his shanty town upbringing and all. seems most of the south american players are true rags to riches stories.

https://wedontknowfootball.com/

#15
Apologies, it is a very badly remembered Martins Afonso Alves
I cant believe Afonso Alves is even being mentioned in this discussion - now, or if we'd been discussing it a year ago.

On Pato - Agreed. Squad Place. But I think he will be a very desperate second or third choice.
Youre kidding right?? A goal pretty much every other game since arriving in Serie A at 18, and you think hes a very desperate choice. Give it a few years and hell be recognised as one of the finest players on the planet.

"Nilmar is in the same position as Pato if not further down
Nilmar will move to Europe in the very short term, of that Im pretty certain. Hes been unlucky with injury, but has been playing at a very high level for Internacional for the last six months or so.

Adriano isn't even playing football at the minute
Er, yes he is, four goals in his last six games for Flamengo.

Grafite is suffering from the out of sight out of mind Brazilian condition plus, he's more a replacement for Robinho or Kaka rather than a replacement for Fabiano
I would disagree with that statement - Edin Dzeko and Zvejzdan Misimovic are surely the creative players in Wolfsburgs front three - and I would suggest that 28 goals in 25 games backs me up on that one.

Dont you just hate it when your punctuation gets ripped out and people cant see whos quoting who!! Just to clarify;
Afonso Alves should be nowhere near a discussion like this.
Pato fantastic talent, to describe him as a desperate choice shows a lack of knowledge in my opinion.
Adriano is playing in Brazil at the moment and doing ok. To say he isnt playing displays a lack of knowledge in my opinion.
Nilmar is in terrific form.
Grafite scored 28 goals in 25 games and is quite like with Luis Fabiano in style.

I would love Ronaldo to be involved next year I dont think he gets the recognition he deserves as one of the finest players of his generation. But I think Dungas one-man-up-front formation means its unlikely hell feature more than as a sub next year. Lets face it hes not your out and out target man is he?? And with Dungas tactics meaning hes unlikely to have more than 3 or 4 forwards in his squad, I dont think Ronaldo would be amongst that current three or four at present.

"On the subject of Goalkeepers there does not seem to be that many great ones around. Buffon , Casillias and Cesar and then a large gap to the good but not great category"
Id say that Reina and Cech are at least as good as any of those, plus there are a lot of players who once theyve had the time will be as good such as Akinfeev and Ochoa (the mexican)

I think over the years there have been several excellent south american goal keepers, and Brazil is quite capable of producing them too - indeed I would go as far to say its only a myth that Brazil only produce out field players.

Jose Luis Chilavert, former Paraguay 'keeper was a South American favourite of mine.

In the last few years Brazil have had Marcos, Dida and Julio Cesar. Dida's form may have slipped more recently but he was a good keeper. Tafferel was an excellent Brazilian goal keeper in the 90s (at least I remember him to have been so).

I don't think its fair to mock Brazilian / South American keepers when Scott Carson played for England and for many years before he matured David James was often refered to Calamity James by fans and the press.

At 11:04am on 13 Jul 2009, impsmith wrote:
#7 captmatt_williams

we've had porto, monaco, dortmund, leverkusen, marseille in the champions league final. plus liverpool isn't that major a city in the context of the UK and nor is turin in italy, juventus' home-town.

I was talking small town clubs. Porto, Dortmund, Marseille, Turin and Liverpool are all city clubs. Monaco is a valid comparison, but they were a flash in the pan. Villarreal have consistantly over the last few years performed well in the Champions League and in La Liga.

18 - I was at the Morumbi yesterday to watch Sao Paulo vs. Flamengo and was impressed by Adriano. Very powerful; Sao Paulo defence really struggled with him. He also won and converted a penalty (didn't celebrate, btw., to show respect to SPFC where he played a short stint). I agree with you that he could be a worthwile addition to the 2010 squad. But Dunga could rule him out due to his character no matter how well he does for Flamengo...

Tim,

Just to point out that two teams from outside Quito or Guayaquil have won the Ecuadorean championship - Olmedo from Riobamba in 2000, and Deportivo Cuenca in 2004.

But as in Scotland, another small country, the dominant cities tend to dominate the football honours.

Also the English title has only gone out of London or Manchester twice in the last twenty years...

#21 Alves was thrown in for completeness. Not because I particularly rate him.

I think I now have to ask did you watch the confed cup? Dunga barely played him, even when Brazil were down and running out of time (e.g. against Eygpt) he only just got a game (and then only after Ramirez came on). I agree, he is great for Milan and he should become a great player. But by next season I sense Dunga will be reaching for a "sure thing" come crunch time in a knock out game.

I think we're agreed on Nilmar (pls correct me if I'm wrong).

I think your Edin Dzeko/Zvejzdan Misimovic statement might be correct for Wolfsburg but means nothing for Brazil. Also the stats are just plainly useless - we're not counting the goals Robinho or Kaka score for their respective teams are we. The question for Brazil is are you are finisher or can you do a bit more with the ball. Fabiano can only finish, Grafite can do more. The system has enough flexibility so that anyone can rotate around up-front but with his skillset Grafite is more Kaka than Fabiano.

Lastly, the point about Adriano was made tongue in cheek - the real point I was making is that he's too flaky for anyone to rely on him being ready come world cup time. He may make it, but again there will be a question mark over his head and Dunga doesn't seem to have time for question marks.

The whole point of my email was whether in the absence of a proper heir Ronaldo could play his way back in?

Yes, Pato will be great. Grafite, Fabiano, Adriano, Love, etc aren't fit to lace Ronaldo's boots (if he's fully fit and scoring). So is there are a chance?

Great blog as usual.

Captainmatt - you may be missing the point here totally - it appears that Tim was saying that nobody wins much outside the capital...which isn't the case in and around europe!

How is a local village team going to come up with the resources to win a football competition of any note? All domestic leagues will be dominated by cities, they're the only places where you can get enough a) local talent and b) support to build a football team / ground / squad.

I know you feel great dissapointment on this subject, but it is crazy that Colombia do actually have the great advantage of a league won by many cities...yet struggle to impose as the 3rd best footballing country in S.America (which we could easily have been).

Maybe the difference is that as you explain in Brazil football is so important to the country that also a rich kid like Kaka was encouraged by his father to be a footballer. That wouldnt happen in Colombia, to be honest being a football player is looked down on as the career of the very very very very poor. Not even a farmer or the president would be proud of their son being a footballer. Which is crazy because we are still passionate about our football. But I guess culture plays such a key role.

#10

I don't get it...

I'm probably the only one who was left unimpressed by Fabiano in the confederations cup. Yes he led the line well, playing on the last man but the way he was used, I felt he had more ability. Modern Brazil is all about individuals and specialists and balancing them out.

I like my strikers to be all round that's all, like a de stefano or a Pele.

#28

Without wishing to divert the discussion from goalkeepers totally;

"I think your Edin Dzeko/Zvejzdan Misimovic statement might be correct for Wolfsburg but means nothing for Brazil. Also the stats are just plainly useless - we're not counting the goals Robinho or Kaka score for their respective teams are we. The question for Brazil is are you are finisher or can you do a bit more with the ball. Fabiano can only finish, Grafite can do more. The system has enough flexibility so that anyone can rotate around up-front but with his skillset Grafite is more Kaka than Fabiano."

We'll have to agree to disagree then, I think Grafite is far more Luis Fabiano than Kaka/Robinho - and I maintain that his goalscoring stats back that up. Don't agree that the new Brazilian frontline has flexibility in it - I think with going with one up front, Dunga has ensured that the centre forward plays as just that and no more.

One thing that I do think Ronaldo has going for him though is that he's playing in Brazil. Every Brazil coach comes under a fair bit of pressure to included home-based players in any squad.

But as in Scotland, another small country, the dominant cities tend to dominate the football honours.

The title has only gone away from Celtic or Rangers about 20 times since the league started and 10 of those were Hearts, Hibs & Third Lanark who arte in Edinburgh & Glasgow. Much the same as in South America

I honestly think that the Brazil team now is far far weaker than it has been in previous years, the days when Roberto Carlos, Rivaldo, Ronaldo were all in their prime. Players like Luis Fabiano, Robinho, Adriano, Wagner Love, Pato - they're good, don't get me wrong, but they're no where near as good as say Villa, Torres, Xavi, Iniesta, Silva or Ribery, Henry, Malouda, Trezuget, Benzema... I think Brazil are far weaker than they used to be, all the South American teams are. I feel that the world cup will be mainly European teams doing well, and my 3 picks would be France, Spain and not being biased but England.

Whats your take on Mauro Zarate and Gonzalo Higuain? They have both been excellent for their clubs this season and deserve to be in the Argie squad i think. Both have been scoring spectacular goals and have great potential. But i heard that Higuain has a problem with Maradona do you know what they are? And do you think they should be given a chance seeing as Aguero hasn't really played that great.

I think its pretty clear that Julio Cesar is head and shoulders above at the moment...if Fabio can keep a clean sheet again to win the Libertadores for Cruzeiro on Weds he probably has a great chance of a squad place.

Ronaldo is being wrapped up in cotton wool just now often not trvelling for away games but almost always scoring when playing at home with some class to make up for the lack of pace or movement contribution to the team, sheer class actually!!

Adriano is getting stronger, quicker and move involved in every game, if he can get it together and start bagging with some class it could give Flamengo a real chance of the title this year but they have to start being ruthless, yesterday giving away a sloppy 2nd half pen away was so so so so so frustrating.....2 stupid points dropped.

Definately room in the squad for international match fit Ronaldo and Adriano.....strong players with class....I think the next 5 leagues games we will see more and more from these 2.

the reason that football in scotland isnt de-centralized is that outside Edinburgh and Glasgow there aren't enough large population centres for a larger club to succeed. There are only really two clubs in scotland that can be described as BIG and that is the old firm. Dundee united and aberdeen are, and were from the 80's to now better clubs than hibernian but even if they are doing well they cant draw the crowds. it doesnt help that there isnt a town in scotland that doesnt have a celtic or rangers (in most cases both) supporters club.

Not sure about this one Tim. While footballers can come from anywhere in the country, the money and the power in Brazilian football is not really decentralised at all. Reflecting the country's economic balance of power, Brazilian football is dominated in terms of money, media coverage and trophies by the Rio/SP axis, along with the relatively affluent south eastern/southern cities of BH and Porto Alegre. The north and north east, for example, claim 40% of the country´s population and 60% of the country´s landmass, but can boast a grand total of three major national championships in forty odd years - Sport´s dubious Brazilian championship in 87, Bahia´s in 88, and Sport again with the Brazilian Cup last year. The north and north east is an area of extreme economic hardship, and this reflects in the money available to its football teams. A brief example - one of the reasons given for Nelsinho Baptista´s recent exit from Sport is that some of the players he wanted to bring to the club, such as Souza and Josue, both reserves at Corinthians and Flamengo respectively, demanded salaries that would have shattered the team´s wage structure. You only need to look at the fates of the giant teams from the region in recent years - Bahia, Vitoria, Paysandu, Remo, and Santa Cruz have all spent time in the third (and now fourth) divisions of Brazilian football. While a lot of this is down to internal corruption and incompetence, there´s no doubt that Brazil is an extremely uneven playing field for teams from outside of the south and south east.

At 1:36pm on 13 Jul 2009, BantamDick wrote:
Great blog as usual.

Captainmatt - you may be missing the point here totally - it appears that Tim was saying that nobody wins much outside the capital...which isn't the case in and around europe!

How is a local village team going to come up with the resources to win a football competition of any note? All domestic leagues will be dominated by cities, they're the only places where you can get enough a) local talent and b) support to build a football team / ground / squad.

I guess what I was trying to do was to make a comparison. I do understand the differences between Europe and South America; of course, but in a small way there are similarities in the sense that Europe's biggest clubs are in their respective country's biggest cities as they are in South America. And although in South America success is usually reserved for the capital city clubs, in Europe it is limited to only a few clubs from the country's biggest cities.

i was just wondering if you know what has happened to Lulinha?, he was the next big thing but nothing has been said of him for ages
thx

38 'I feel that the world cup will be mainly European teams doing well, and my 3 picks would be France, Spain and not being biased but England.'

I would like to know on what grounds are you ranking England and France? They are far weaker than Brasil. Besides, European nations never won a world cup outside Europe, and i reckon this tradition will continue in 2010 and 2014. The problem with some English fans, is that they get carried away with the false enthusiasm they get from some of the press here. England beat Kazakistan and Andorra, these sides are the equivalent of the Oceanian qualifying group teams!
Brasil has just won the Confederations cup, well it may not have been pretty but was efficient, and i my guess Brasil is the favourite for next year! England and France they'll only make the 2nd round while Spain will freeze as they did against the USA!

Tim I have tried for may years to find the reasons why Colombia just cant make it and I do beleive our mentality on football as a profession has caused us problems. Especially in the middle classes. How do you think Falcao Garcia will do in Porto? Having seen him play various times who can you compare him to.

@ post 12

Turin is a major industrial city, with a population of over 2 million (about the same as manchester, which is britain's second largest city in population).

Marseille is france's second largest city, and has the most supported team in the counrty.

Porto IS the capital of portugal.

You made the point of post 7 even more valid!

*Porto IS the second city of portugal.

whoops

About the Gomes thing, he was superb for PSV, has been superb for Tottenham in the last months and I'd rate him as one of the best in the world. Considering that he is calm. Although he started his career in the biggest rival of my club, I always had a place in the heart for him, as I do for any player who start its career on Minas Gerais.

Belo Horizonte only produced two Brazilian Champions(Atletico Mineiro in 71 and Cruzeiro in 2003) and yet we're the 3rd biggest metropolitan area, comparatively small cities(Newcastle, Sunderland) have produced champions on England, albeit in a different era. So football is still a big city thing in Brazil, just not as centralized as Uruguay.

38 - I wouldn't rate Brazil any weaker than France, let alone England. Is Luis Fabiano worst than nowadays Henry? Malouda? Trezeguet? His has been scoring LOADS for both Sevilla and Brazil, why he is so underrated by many?

Another player you mention is Vagner Love. He is not class and haven't been called for a while. Why? Because he couldn't score when wearing the Brazil shirt. Mentioning a player who has not been called up in the few squads but is world class, Diego. Finally in a World Class club, I expect him to finally cement his place in the Brazil squad.

5 - Salvador has no team in Serie A based on merit. Vitoria and Bahia were there not long ago, but then went down on the field.

9 - Half of what someone say about mineiros is not true. Some of the world best footballers are mineiros, including Pele.

Tim, I know you speak Portuguese, but can you speak Spanish as well?

The Other Galoucura - a strange post - Vitoria are currently third in Serie A and thumped Santos 6-2 yesterday. They´ll probably fade as the year goes on but deserve a bit more credit than having their very existence in the first division denied! As for Bahia, as cursed as the glorious Santa Cruz of Recife I´m afraid (the best football story in Brazil yesterday? 45,000 turning up to watch Santa's first game in Serie D, the fourth biggest crowd in the Brasileirao this year) - the usual north eastern story of thieving directors, spectacular debt, a dozen or so incompetent coaches every year, endless internal in-fighting, not to mention some bloody awful footballers.....

and just for identifications sake I´ll call myself Galoucura/Inferno Coral - did you spot the Inferno flag amidst the Atletico fans at the Mineirao yesterday?

Re: the Q&A, "it was a triumph for Brazil's superb team of physical preparation specialists"...

I beg to differ - it's well known Brazilians shut down in February and save themselves for the World Cup, pretending to have all sort of ailments that magically disappear in the summer.

Great blog again. But just not satisfied.need lil more of it than you've given.
By the way Tim i expected a blog on the south american rivals brazil and argentina,their comparisons and who you think has much art and technique,strategy and admiration in their footballing culture? Though not a argentine fan i'd love to see them win something with messi as they haven't sparked for long.
Hearing lot of original ronaldo. Don't know why he isn't respected as one of the best strikers in the world at his time and always.tell me in last 3 decades has any one striker been as deadly and frightful as ronaldo,especially when WC in cards.i don't remember.in my country ronaldo is the second most popular foreigner after michael jackson.
Ya,and have same question about lulinha.
As far as england,france and spain are concerned,i think its foolish even if they're compared to brazil. Its not same football brazil plays.spain is a good,better team but they lack team-effort and are sluggish if iniesta and xabi don't turn up the day.france will take a century to be what it was once,even if they have ribery and anelka.england,if jose maurhino was the coach he would have scrapped them through the finals.i hope england lands in the group of danger along with argentina,sweden and united states.enjoy.

Tim

Why is the Maracanã out of action at the moment? I noticed that both Flamengo last weekend and Fluminense this weekend just gone have both played their home games at the Engenhão.

Cheers

Because of an outrageous Roberto Carlos concert, mid season, how shocking is that, the dodgy haired bloke also stated in an interview at the weekend he had never been to the Maracana since he was a child, he only lives a few miles away in Urca.

So the Maracana gave way for him.......and it peeeeeee'd down with rain on Saturday for the gig...... :)

Just wanted to pass comment on the Carlos Tevez affair.

If there was ever an example of a player chasing the money to the detriment of his career, this is it! Carlos Tevez was set to become a leading star next season in the 2nd most successful team in Europe; instead he will be playing for a bunch of overpaid average player, with him at the spearhead. His loyalty, ambition and reputation has been lost overnight through his lack of intelligence, ignorance and poor guidance. In 20 years time he will just be a name on a very small list of players who have played on both sides of Manchester. He has sacrificed the chance of legendary status at the biggest club in the world.

Tim, do you think D'Alessandro will ever come back to Europe or at 28 hes really past trying again? Its pleasing at least to see him carving out a career at Internacional, a club with a great history.

Shame as I really rated him at River but his previous Euro forays werent up to much.

Tim, how do you think Kerlon will fit in at Inter Milan? Same goes for Diego Milito. Seeing as you mentioned Crespo, is this Milito's opportunity to try and force his way into the reckoning for the WC next year, perhaps instead of Crespo? And Lisandro and Lucho Gonzalez heading to France? Lyon seem to be a team in transition and i think that move could go either way, and Lucho going to Marseille at 28/29 is a strange move for me

54 - Oh, yeah I'm sorry. I meant that Vitoria went to Serie C recently because the time he was in Brazil Vitoria was in Serie C.

Serie A is weird this year so far, my Atletico in first? I don't think that it'll last long.

I wasn't on the stadium yesterday, I personally don't like to go the big games, I'm afraid of getting caught in the middle of some fight again. I saw a few Santa Cruz flags in the stadium(it's a team I particularly like), specially against Sport Recife. Do you ever see Galoucura flags against Cruzeiro?

I'm sorry for getting your name, you registered it first but I had no idea and registered an almost equal name.

A bit off topic, but the first leg of the Copa Libertadores between Estudieantes and LaPlate was mind numbingly dull. Reminescent of the encounters between Mourinho and Benitez. Can we expect any better in the second leg?

To all you guys saying Ronaldo should be called up...a few points to consider.
Firstly, he has just openly crticised the amount of time he has to spend preparing for games, locked away in hotels, far from family with Corinthians etc etc..
Kaká retorted that no players in Dunga´s seleção should get a general´s treatment ( Ronaldo´s nickname in the national team was general in WC 2006)
Secondly, he has himself stated that he's not ready for the national team.
Thirdly, there is a certain amount of unfinished business/gossip/bad feeling between himself and the CBF which I'm sure Tim is in a far better situation to explain than myself.
That being said I don't want to appear to be against Ronaldo just stating the facts/gossip.

Hello Galoucura, no problem, I want to change my name anyway but I don´t know how ha ha. I know Galoucura and Inferno have a really strong alliance, and so Cruzeiro and Sport have joined forces too, but it isn´t as strong, though there are usually one or two Cruzeiro flags at Sport games (I could be rude here but I won´t). Talking of torcida organizada alliances, Santa down in Maceio last week was a beautiful sight - CSA and Inferno are allies too....and each group of supporters (6,000 Santa!) had flags of the other team, and at half time everyone mixed together and swapped souvenirs...very nice.

www.yourlifeisanimpossibility.blogspot.com

Was very impressed with Cruzeiro's goalkeeper Fabio,wrote about him on your previous blog.Kept his side in the match with a couple of vital saves a freekick from Veron an excellent stop.

The Brazilian side have home advantage,a couple of years ago there was talk of a move to Arsenal to replace Jens Lehemann nothing materlized.

How do you see Gomes,coping against Barcelona in next week's Wembley Cup?


Alejandro Faurlin QPR'S £3.5 million new signing.you said on Saturday's WFPI on BBC R5 that you had not seen him play.Talking to some QPR fans after their 0-4 defeat of my Aldershot Town.some said they had seen clips of him on Youtubs and that QPR had paid Inter Milan £500,000 compensation fee as,they had first refusal on Faurlin.He had been an U17 Argentinan player in 2003.04. He looked good in the warm up before game did not play ,not sure if he had a work permit or Italian Passport.


QPR are 16/1 to win the Championship,new experinced manager Magilton this may their year?

"In terms of strikers Ronaldo is the elephant in the room (not literally, honest). He is there most complete striker, but with a serious fitness problem."

It isn't only physical. He's simply not playing well enough to be a part of Brazil's squad. Sure, he scored 3 goals against the weak Fluminense team, but Sunday his team got hammered by Gremio, a much stronger one, and he did absolutely nothing.

He also scored only 3 goals in the Brazilian Cup Corinthians won, and other players such as Andre Santos (a left-back) and Chicão (a central defender) scored more. There's at least a half a dozen Corinthians players that were more important to win the trophy than he is.

Also, he hasn't scored a single goal away from the state of Sao Paulo since he returned. His football currently is NOWHERE near the level of Luis Fabiano, Nilmar or Kleber, to name a few.

Just to add to the previous posts: sure he has glimpses of great talent, but he isn't consistent. Like I said, in one week he scored 3 goals in one match and didn't do anything in the other.

but we're seeing more and more of that great talent of his, especially in the last few months of last season. i dont think inconsistent is the word to describe him, he was just adapting to a new league and a new team.

https://wedontknowfootball.com/

there are exceptions in Colombia - Juan Pablo Angel, for example, is from a middle class family.

You're right - there's smo much potential in Colombian football - and the decentralisation, with big teams in a number of cities, underlines the point.

It continually mystifies me that they can't do better.
.....................

generally, with the exception of Argentina and Uruguay, you can pretty much tell the "middle class" players in latin america, because they're white ! of pure (or predominantly of ) spanish (or other european)blood... Juan Pablo Angel being an example... Zico, Kaka, falcao being other examples.. This represents the social structure of latin america very accurately infact.. With the pure blood descendants of the european conquerors at the top of society, the mestizos (mixed amerindians and europeans), mulattos (mixed black and white) next, and the predominantly black and amerindians at the bottom...
Argentina and Uruguay ( and the south of brazil for that matter too ) obviously different as about 80-85% of the population is of pure european stock.

Strangely north americans just call all of them hispanics or latinos !!

Comments 14 and 19
Your points are incredibly ill-informed and out of order. As a spurs fan, Gomes had a hard time at the start of the season, showing glimpses of being a quality keeper but then making some horrendous mistakes. I'd say that a large part of this was a lot to do with communication problems with his defence, and the differences between the English game and continental ones.

However, our whole team started off appalingly, thanks to some appalling transfer business mainly involving selling the two senior strikers with little time to replace them adequately and in failing to strengthen the previous problems.

When Redknapp came in, and bought in a new set of coaching staff including Tony Parks as goalkeeping coach, Spurs and Gomes form greatly improved. In the transfer window Cudicini was bought in but tellingly Gomes remained first choice when fit, keeping 7 clean sheets in 14 league games as well as another in the league cup final, and by the end of the season spurs had conceded just ten goals at home all season which broke their own club record and ensured ending the season with the best home defence in the 2008-09 season

69 - Ain't that comment a little bit racist? Anyway, Zico was poor.

There are white poor footballers and white poor people as well. Brazil society is by no means dictated by races but the historic process that threw the once-slaves Blacks into being poor, but if they make the move from the lowest classes to the highest they find no problem adapting. As the poor whites have no problems to live alongside poor blacks, we're all Brazilians.

In 50 years time, they will be leveled.

This is a very belated reaction to a particular comment made by poster 1...what's wrong with Luis Fabiano? I think his scoring record speaks for itself! There have always been a very select few players to have been selected for Brazil's World Cup squads from the Brazilian League (I do admit that it's not impossible). Personally, I do not feel Ronaldo would benefit the Brazil squad in any way. And why should South Africa come too early for Pato? I think he's a very exciting talent and if the Luiz Ronaldo was good enough to be selected for the winning squad in 1994 (although he didn't play) and even play in a World Cup at the age of 21, why should Pato be left out, if he's good enough?

I stand corrected Tim ! I always assumed Zico was from a middle class background.

72..My comment wasn't at all meant to be racist, i was just commenting on the social/class structure of latin america... which does still exist ( although clearly not as strongly as it once did )

Thanks Tim for the fine stuff. I am getting to know a bit more about club football in Brazil and in the rest of South America. Keep up the good work. It does enlighten some of us here in our part of the world. All the best for you out there.




Dr. Cajetan Coelho

An important point: Brazil is more than half of South America, roughly comparable to the size of Europe. Even though the national championship is relatively recent, all the major state tournaments (the most important tournaments until the 80's) are more than a hundred years old.

All these "off-RJ-SP" cities we are talking about are not really countryside. They are state capitals and regional powers with populations in the order of 2-4 million people. They have their own traditions and very old rivalries. In that sense, the brazilian championship has somewhat continental characteristics. In the 30 editions where the brazilian championship had a final (until the early 2000's) there was never a repeated one.

The only team outside of a state capital to be brazilian chapion was Guarani from Campinas, in 1978. Campinas itself is a city of over 1 million people, with a metropolitan area of about 3.5 million and fairly close to Sao Paulo.

If you want to have an idea of the brazilian football scene pre-1950, take a look at the history of the brazilian participation in the 1930 world cup. It was the first time there was a serious need of a national team. The complete lack of a national level organization ended in a clash between the state federations and a weak all-RJ team whose failure was celebrated in SP.

72 - Please dont bring out the racist card. It is true that in many south american countries the people with european heritage tend to be wealthier than the black population. It is just something that has been handed down from the colonial times. However 69's comments are not that accurate, for a start JP Angel and Falcao Garcia (if thats the one he meant) are mestizo. Also it is hard to compare Brazil with most north/eastern South American countries because Brazil had so much european immigration in the last 100 years. Many of them poor looking for a new start. Colombia, Venezuela, etc did not have such an influx and their established european heritage is practically what arrived during colonial times.

I don't think that teams outside the big cities not winning titles is the problem - it happens in a lot of countries all over the world, including England and Spain.

I like the idea of national games being spread around the country like in Spain where the national team comes to all the big towns and they get a good turnout also giving the chance for everyone to come and see them - maybe then, the Maracana was a bad thing for Brazilian football as a whole (despite being one of the best stadiums in world football), what do you think Tim?

https://www.worldfootballcolumns.com

77 - I guess he meant the original Falcao, who was white. But was from the South of the country where the population is predominantly white. I'm not sure about his background.

I only said that the post was a little bit racist because the way he said it. A little bit aggressive perhaps.

78 - It is rotated. Last game against Paraguay was in Recife, Brazil and Portugal went to Brasilia and I had the luck to see(a fairly poor game but still) Brazil against Argentina in my hometown Belo Horizonte.

Second leg of the Copa Liberatores at 1.50 am Thursday morning on Justin tv via internet for all you night owls.

Sadly had time off to watch 1st Ashes Test.but try and watch the highlights of the match at Belo Horozonte,Cruzeiro are slight favourites.Hope that Mauro Bosilli and Wellington Paulista are not MIA this week!!

As usual, fascinating blog.

I'm just wondering why the new Barcelona left back Maxwell has never played for Brazil?
After playing for Inter Milan for several years and now being deemed good enough for Barcelona surely he is good enough.

For the 4th time in their history Estudiantes have won the Copa Liberatores beating Cruzeiro 2-1.


After over 140 minutes of goaless play it as Cruzeiro who went 1-0 up 6 minutes after half time,only for Estudiantes to equalize 5 minutes later.The winner came 20 minutes from the end from a lovely Veron corner and headed into the goal.

Captain Veron was rightly emotional,so they will probably face Barcelona in the FIFA World Club championship 9-19 December in U.A.E,something to look forward to.

Sorry only a quick post 82,but rightly Veron was named MOM and goals by Cruzeiro's Henrique.Estudiantes equalizer by Gasyon Ferndanez and the wininng goal courtsey of Veron's excellent corner and headed in by a former Boca player and one of whom Ispoke to Tim about.Mauro Boselli.


So it may well be a Estudiantes vs Barcelona final in the FIFA World Club Champioship in December9-19 in U.A.E,something to brighten our dark winter days haha.

Wild celebration back home in La Plata,made all the sweeter when the win was at Belo Horizonte.

Neither Barcelona or Estudiantes have a spot in the final, specially since Atlante from Mexico could give them both a good run.

If Estudiantes expect to make a good tournament next year in either the Argentinian league, Libertadores and in the Club World Cup, they will have to cover lots of places, like the ones left by ¨La Gata¨ Fernandez who finish his loan and goes back to Mexico, by Andujar who is going to Catania, and other players that could leave as usual in this unstable SA footy.

Well Tim so much for the supposed Brasilan domination Argentina 22 Brasil 13 now.the principal reason the Brasilian clubs do well early on recently is thier clubs are playing mickey mouse state leagues whilst the Argentine clubs are heavily involved in Primera

85 - Read his arguments again to see that Brazil is winning in QUANTITY of teams reaching the LAST spots. By the time Estudiantes was the only Argentinian, Cruzeiro, Gremio, Palmeiras were all in the competition.

83 - Belo Horizonte was also full of celebrations itself. The city is divided between Atletico Mineiro(around 51% supports this team, and that's where my name 'galoucura' comes from) and Cruzeiro(with 40%).

No Atleticano supported Cruzeiro in the game and after the game the celebrations were wild! Maybe the Cruzeirenses would have made more noise but the city was still very noisy after the game, thanks to the Atleticanos.

86 As I said the principle reason for this is that the Brasilian teams are playing mickey mouse state leagues early on whilst the Argentines are fighting out in the Worlds most competitive league.Its easy for the top Brasuca teams to concentrate on the Copa whil Argentinas clubs dont have the squad depth to fight out both.Estudiantes were out of the Clausura at an early stage so they could concentrate on the Libertadores

87. Not true. Brazilian teams are involved in the national league (brasileirao serie A) early in the year.Cruzeiro, for example, used only its under 21 players until now, meaning their place on the fixture is pretty low (16th).

Cheers

Hi Tim! São Paulo FC is about to sign Adrian González from San Lorenzo. Is he a good player? Do you think he'll fit well to the brazilian football? What else could you tell us about him?

88 you dont know what you are talking about Palmeirense.The Brasileiro Serie A first match was on 16th may when there were only 7 rounds left of Argentinas Apertura AND THE LIBERTADORES HAD REACHED THE LAST 16.Gonzalez will show you guys how to take free kicks if nothing else

Gomes is absolutely one of the best goalkeepers in the world. Yes he had a bit of a shaky start, but he will further impress at Spurs. I have seen him many times at PSV Eindhoven and his stats are more than impressive. With 60% clean sheets and 4 in 4 league titles I can guarantee you that he will win games at Whitehart Lane and beyond. Many consider PSV's last title to be down to Gomes. You Spurs fans don't yet know what kind of diamond you have in your ranks. Feed him, nurture him and support him and you will be richly rewarded....

What about Keirrison? He's only 20 but has a very respectable scoring record in Brazil. Think he's just gone to Barcelona. Anyone know enough about him to rate his chances of making the squad in 2010?

Also, does anyone know what happened to Raphael Sobis? I remember seeing him play for Brazil and he looked half decent.

I agree with 76.

The countries of the rest of South America are fragments of the Spanish empire.

The boundaries of Portuguese empire more or less stayed intact and became Brasil.

If Brasil too had fragmented, a lot of the state capitals would now be national capitals and as if not more well known than some of their Hispanic counterparts.

@53, i think he was in salvador before 2007, when vitoria returned to the brasileirao, and anyweay, bahia support always was great within the city, so even before he could have seen a popular local game from the campeonato baiano