Bonuses for Diamond and Varley

All this user's posts have been removed.Why?

It's nice to see were all in this together.

"We could have been idealistic but we felt we had to be pragmatic; we had to swallow hard.

Was that the champagne going down the wrong way?

Thank you for this report.

I feel so much better knowing that the bankers are receiving their well-deserved bonuses.

I am sure that there are many throughout the country will feel the same. As the cuts begin to bite and the elderly can't afford their heating bills anymore, it is so comforting to knowing that at least these CEOs will be able to feed their kids and heat their homes.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

Following Mervyn King's remarks it would be particularly interesting to get his comments. Of course remuneration packages of these dimensions simply reflect the easy and enormous margins that the banks have. At this level the "going rate" is what the banks choose to mean by the words. I would like to hear from them what it is they do and contribute that is so super human that no one could criticise these pay outs. Payouts that after a few years clearly demonstrate that they do not do it for the money. The bonuses in many cases mock the work of hundreds and thousands of employees who do the vast majority of the work creating the profits.
Place this in the context of the call (CBI) recently to abolish the 50% tax rate - you taxpayers give me more money - feed my greed you unworthy masses!

Just proves that the casino is now in charge of these banks. It's fine so long as they don't make losses.

Mervyn needs Nick Leeson on his side. At least that's someone who knows about the downside, unlike the rest of them that we all bailed out.

Pay it in RBS shares he can only sell when they're in profit.

Barclays has had a very successful year, of course he should be rewarded. I personally do not feel that "rent" is being extracted from me. I can transfer money free of charge, place my savings into an equity ISA that is invested on my behalf all over the world and benefit from consumer protection on my credit card for any purchase. One assumes that Lord Turner is just trying to stay sweet with his friends in the Labour party.

Given that the vast majority of people in this country (and many others) are going to suffer for years to come due to the blinkered pursuit of a quick buck by those in the banking industry, I can't help but wonder how many comments will be in need of moderation.

I, for one, struggle to find the words that express the anger properly. Well, the words that can be written here at least.

We NEED a National Maximum Wage!

(set at 20 times the National Minimum Wage)

If we do not do this our society will implode!

Ah well - as long as the bonus is repaid during the next bailout then I don't mind so much!
(now cue the capitalists who incorectly point out that 'Barclays didn't get a taxpayer bailout' - when only the most stupid and gullible of people think this is the case)

Despite the fact that Bob Diamond himself admits it!

"He did concede that Barclays benefited from the system as a whole being bailed out with taxpayer support"

https://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/feb/15/bank-barclays-taxpayer-subsidy

Still, who am I to come between the capitalist and their dellusions? Let them play like children and grasshoppers - we all know what becomes of them in the end....

"...in the interests of the country." RUBBISH! Not so long ago Bob Diamond threatened to take business elsewhere if the public mood remains confrontational to the banking industry.
The banking industry has no intention of changing it's doing very nicely thank you very much.

So it's 'business as usual' then!

thomas betham wrote:
This is rich coming from the public sector where overpaid journalists such as Peston and Marr take directly from the license fee. This is as unsustainable as the BBC’s director general who takes over £800k p.a. Get into the real world otherwise pot, kettle and black come to mind. But then I guess you would never survive at BskyB where customers choose to pay.
=================================================
Aah The Murdoch acolytes are already starting the attack to discedit Auntie.

Now they've got the Government in their pocket all competitors and especially the Beeb are fair game.

How is the air in the depths of Rupert's nether regions? Can you see his epiglotis yet?

A pity Bob Diamond didn't use some of his hard earned £6.5 million bonus to keep the branch of Barclays in Lower Bebington Wirral which I have been using for the past 40+ years open.How Barclays can spin this as an improvement, or no different to the service it offers me, is beyond belief,as I now have to travel several miles by bus to get to the nearest branch. Also no use writing to Barclays executives as they dont give a dam about customer service,only about maintaining the obscene levels of renumeration they receive.

What will it take for people to rebel in this country?

An elite of private individuals make any notion of British soverignty or democracy a sham!

(a) The banks create our money supply as debt
(b) We are forced to pay off their 'gambling casino' debts with public money
(c) They laugh at us and enjoy super low taxes on multi-billion pound profits and pay themselves big bonuses.

This is not a party political issue or really about bonuses.

It is about who REALLY has the power in this country.

It is vital that the creation of our money supply is taken back into public ownership in the national interest.

For GOODNESS SAKE - if you allow a small number of banks a closed private monopoly on creating a nations money supply as debt - what do you EXPECT them to do!!??

No wonder Bob Diamond is grinning!

End Fractional Reserve Banking! Reclaim British Democracy!

5. At 11:29am on 7th Mar 2011, thomas betham wrote:

"This is rich coming from the public sector where overpaid journalists such as Peston and Marr take directly from the license fee. This is as unsustainable as the BBC’s director general who takes over £800k p.a. Get into the real world otherwise pot, kettle and black come to mind. But then I guess you would never survive at BskyB where customers choose to pay."

Your last 4 posts have been attacking the BBC - do you think you've got a problem?

Maybe you just work at SKY - how very unfortunate - never mind, as you know in this world of 'choice' - you can always go and work in your local supermarket!!

Why don't you ask him, how a Credit Union run by voluteers can still pay an Isa rate better than Barclays, or is it rocket science ?

"We could have been idealistic but we felt we had to be pragmatic"

Not sure how much of Mr, Diamonds time long was spent deciding between being idealistic and being pragmatic.

A) Idealistic - no or little bonus or
B) A Pragmatic - a big fat juicy bonus of £6.5m

It's taking hard, tough decisions like these that makes gives Mr Diamond a £6.5m bonus and made all those sleeplees nights his had worrying about whether to be Idealistic or Pragmatic, worth it.

Any chance of Mr Diamond being idealistic next year? Oh well, nice to see he will give it some thought thou before once again being pragmatic.

9. At 11:45am on 7th Mar 2011, Zanzare wrote:

"Barclays has had a very successful year, of course he should be rewarded. I personally do not feel that "rent" is being extracted from me. I can transfer money free of charge, place my savings into an equity ISA that is invested on my behalf all over the world and benefit from consumer protection on my credit card for any purchase. One assumes that Lord Turner is just trying to stay sweet with his friends in the Labour party."

Maybe you can try to explain where "your friends in banking" generate wealth?

Seems to me it's 'capital blackmail' in operation - with the choice of which blackmailer you go to.

Maybe you need to consider a history longer than that of your own lifetime.

Can I suggest that until you publish your own total remuneration, including non bbc for interviews, journals and lectures Robert that you give it a rest now. This is about the 10th article on Barclays and Bob Diamonds compensation. It becomes a case of 'rabble rousing' after a while, not reporting new 'news'.

Its a lot of money but who cares - unless you are someone who is subsumed by envy and greed then get over it. Its less than a lot of footballers get, let alone senior board members of other industries (when you include pensions, share options and the like).

People are only in it for themselves, but thats not restricted to bankers. The lib dems are proposing handing everyone on the electoral register rbs and lloyds shares worth £1,000 each, lets see who in Joe public says no to that shall we... £1,000 per voter for nothing (so some families with stay at home kids could do pretty well) or will they vote that instead we put the money towards the defecit or more nurses.. I wonder..
Ironically, as in the US I could see many critics doing a U-turn and wanting RBS to pay bonuses, as their shares will go up as profits increase and the best staff stop leaving to go elsewhere. Double your free money. Genius!

PS This is what a senior non-executive of Barclays told me about the bonus award to Mr Diamond:

"We could have been idealistic but we felt we had to be pragmatic; we had to swallow hard. What we've done won't be popular in the UK but I think it will eventually be seen as in the interest of the country."


I needed a good laugh this morning and boy did this unnamed individual give me it.

I really dont want to get into the pay argument, but would someone please get the diamonds of this world on camera and explain why they think they are doing any good for the country, they are bleeding us dry and our government are seemingly incapable of doing anything about it.

If they truly has world class skills he will have no problem explaining them....

We will get our chance to remove the Government but i would dearly love in the meantime as many people as possible to stop using these parasites for their banking.

I would like to see much more 'symmetrical' bonuses. When things go well, people should be rewarded, but when they go badly then these 'bonuses' should be removed.
This would then bring these top employees into line with real entrepreneurs who may lose everything if their ideas turn out to be wrong.

NINETY NINE PER CENT of the UK population won't earn £6.5 million in their ENTIRE LIVES.

Bob Diamond received a bonus for his 2010 performance as head of Barclays' investment banking and wealth management operations of £6.5m, which consist of £1.8m in shares and a deferred award of £4.7m in shares and contingent capital (bonds that convert into shares in certain circumstances).

This comes on top of his salary of £250,000 per annum. He also received a few million pounds worth of shares from a long term incentive plan (I will be able to calculate the precise value of that when the remuneration report is available later today).

We can assume however that he pocketed somewhere in the order of £10m or so for 2010...

It's outrageous!.. Only £10million for that brilliant bright white smile?! He should have gotten £20MILLIONS!!
Come on Bobby D put your underpants on over your trousers, tie your cape round your shoulders and fly around over the glorious cess pit that is... The City of London and show us all how really 'super' you are! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now which glorious 'market' can act efficiently, flexibly and in a 'lean, mean' way to provide me, the long suffering private sector customer, with a nice large chunk of Kryptonite..?

This is an outrage - I thought we were all in this together!?!

Public employees: total pay freeze (effective pay cut)
Private sector employees: ~2% raises (effective pay cut)
Hundreds of thousands being made redundant.
Tens of thousands of young people with no job due to recruitment freezes
Inflation UP
Taxes UP

This is the life of normal people in the disunited kingdom during the economic collapse.

Meanwhile the banks are quite literally back to business as usual.

Presumably this is what lord snooty meant by ... "we're all in it together."

I am put in mind of a conjurers' trick, distracting the audience from the sleight of hand with some obvious stage business.

The bonus culture in the banks may be conspicuous and even odious, but it is not the problem. While the media are focusing on bonuses the system which creates them is not reformed - indeed it re-forms.

The oligopoly remains intact, ensuring that banks can cream off excessive profits from providing basic services: the taxpayers continue to underwrite the casinos: and the paper profits from derivatives etc flow round and round to no purpose other than to inflate bank's balance sheets.

We are now at a stage where we will have to have another crash before anyone starts to address these causes: and it serves no purpose to huff and puff about the effect.

Sure, we can all feel aggrieved at this, but it can also all sound like envy.

But surely the biggest question must be how the interests of shareholders and executives have become so far removed. Why does so much of the "profits" go to employees, and so little to the owners - have they forgotten who they're working for?

Perhaps it's time to be more radical. Not only pay them in shares, but link how many shares they get to the current share price. So e.g. if the price is 326p, they get 326,000 shares. If it's 500p, they get 500,000 shares. The shares have to be held for 5 years.

8. At 11:36am on 7th Mar 2011, NorthSeaHalibut wrote:

"Pay it in RBS shares he can only sell when they're in profit."

A blog classic - yes, why don't we pay all these bankers bonuses in shares that are tied to economic recovery?

the bankers are literally taking the last few bags of money before the whole thing blows up!

Barclays attitude to the "bailout" is so arrogant as is there pay policy. Also, they pay such low interest at present that no wonder they are making such profits - I've voted with my money and taken it elsewhere.

Robert,

You can count me as a no - I don't think that it will ever be seen as in the interest of the country or in anyones interest apart from the Bankers themselves. It's another blatant attempt to keep pushing the Emporers new clothes as being the only functional attire available (or in fact there at all).

Rather than repeat it all I couldn't have said it better myself than post:

17. At 11:52am on 7th Mar 2011, thegreenmurphy

I've booked my train ticket for this:

https://www.coalitionofresistance.org.uk/2011/01/make-march-26th-a-massive-show-of-strength-cor-newsletter-25-january/

Hope to see TGM there and WOTW (who will be buying me a drink ;-)

This is as close to a rebelion as we get in this country so better come along or stop whinging.....

@ 16

Royell, meant respectfully, why not move banks? I haven't done so for some time but had no qualms about doing so when I felt it was right for my circumstances.

Not something you want to be doing every day, but it's actually quite easy. Are there any other banks near to you?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12663730
Another 6.5 million reasons why I'm not going to be bought off.

Sorry, utterly fail to see what the problem here is. Its a private company, you don't have to own the shares and there are plenty of other financial institutions you can choose to bank with. Sure its an obscene amount of money for anyone to get awarded but that's a matter for the (all private) shareholders and whether they think he's worth it. Buying Lehman's brokerage unit on the cheap when everyone else was running for the hills was probably the smartest bit of business done in 2008 (apart from Buffet's Goldman's preference shares) and Barclays shares have only fallen 50% since 2007 rather than 90% + for RBS and Lloyds and so, for a company worth £40bn, and given this award seems to be almost exclusively in shares and junior debt securities (practically worthless in default from now on) maybe he's quite cheap?

As for the argument about Barclays benefitting from the implicit guarantee from the Government, its a matter of fact rather than debate. I see the Bank of England and others are working quite hard to end this via creditor bail-ins and living wills etc but no doubt once that's achieved there will still be no end to the carping as a number of people in this country just can't stand other people making money......and that's the real reason for all the righteous indignation on this blog..........

Persons like Diamond and Varley are making "bonus: a synonym for obscenity.
The remuneration report is likely preceding the annual report because the contents of the remuneration report will make people too sick from shock that they will completely overlook the annual report.
Of course, you will note that in taking a bonus in shares, "deferred award", and additional shares from a long term incentive plan, these good citizens also slip through the taxation net.
What to say about all this?
I think most normal, working people will be too angry to sputter much. It's almost become just the way things work.
One thing and one thing only can stop this obscenity:
THE COALITION GOVERNMENT MUST TAKE ON BANKING RFORM, INCLUDING DEFERRED REMUNERATION....but this Government is afraid of the financial institutions. So, the day that happens will be the day that the oil conglomerates hit the central earth core and H..ll freezes over.
I absolutely agree that people like Barclays' Diamond have world class skills in a high-paying industry; it's too bad that people like Barclays' Diamond don't use these skills to lift the boat of all persons who work just as hard or even harder.
I add my voice to those who argue that banks' excessive profiteering has reached the level of total obscenity and something must be done.
Barclay on Diamond's bonus:
"We could have been idealistic but we felt we had to be pragmatic; we had to swallow hard. What we've done won't be popular in the UK but I think it will eventually be seen as in the interest of the country."
I would've written this as:
"We could have been idealistic but we're too greedy. We could have set a new precedent but we're too greedy. We had to swallow hard, almost choking on the wads of paper that aren't subject to immediate taxation. What we've done won't be popular, but we're filthy rich; as for the rest of the country, let them have their moldy crusts and enjoy them. In the long-run, what we are doing is in the interest of the country: It's sympathetic to allow a country and its people to get poor as slowly as possible. In this way, they keep working, keep hoping."

Good on yer mr diamond because it is not my direct money your having because I have nothing associated with Barclays! Continue screwing your customer I don’t care! And why should I when so many still bank with you? (I can say the same about HSBC as well)

This is even putting Fred the shed to shame and look what happened to him?

Can’t the customers of Barclays and HSBC see that they are taking the ‘P’ or the 10p in every pound to pay these sums?

It’s not rent it’s private tax and it is not compensation it is the panicle of the ponzi.

Here’s a few lines from a song:

Anther day older and deeper in debt
Brother don’t you call me cus I can’t go
I owe my sole to the company store.

Yes, it is an enormous sum - but what do people will think would happen if Mr Diamond received less? Barclays profits would still be the same.
Also, could someone at the BBC explain how: "The top earner received £10.5m plus £3.3m in long term incentive rewards, number two got £10.6m plus £3.4m."
Unless I'm very much mistaken, number two seems to have done rather better than number one here.*

* (I will, of course, be charging the BBC a fee for this piece of sub-editing. Said charge will increase incrementally for every hour the offending piece of information is not corrected.)

17. At 11:52am on 7th Mar 2011, thegreenmurphy wrote:

"What will it take for people to rebel in this country?"

Come along....find out.....

https://www.coalitionofresistance.org.uk/2011/01/tuc-national-demonstration-against-cuts-26-march-london/

Midlands

* Wolverhampton Trades Council are putting on a coach
* Birmingham UNISON are running 10 coaches
* Birmingham NUT are running 4 coaches
* Birmingham University UNISON are running 1 coach

Northern

* PCS are putting on trains from Newcastle and Carlisle
* PCS putting on a train from Hartlepool
* Darlington Trades Council have purchased 27 train tickets
* Regional TUC are putting on buses from Darlington
* USDAW are organising buses through divisional reps
* South Tyneside Trades Council are organising buses to link up with TUC trains organised from Newcastle . They are hoping to provide sponsored bus seats for students and unemployed people.
* Coaches from Newcastle, organised by Gateshead Public Services Alliance and Coalition of Resistance – Tyne & Wear, £25/£10. To reserve places contact Tony: toe.knee.dowling@gmail.com or 0771 994 6814

North West

* NUT are putting on 3 trains from Manchester , Lancaster , and Liverpool
* PCS are putting on trains from Blackpool, Preston, Manchester
* Manchester Trades Council is putting on a coach
* PCS are putting on a train from Chester

Southern and Eastern

* A coach is organised from Brighton , contact 07779 357 110 or gerry,hyde@jobcentreplus.gsi.gov.uk
* A coach is organised from Hastings , contact 07807 289 253 or swpsam@hotmail.com
* PCS are putting on a coach from Milton Keynes

Yorkshire and the Humber

* The TUC are putting on trains from Sheffield and Leeds , and unions are to fill seats on them. Contact 0113 242 9696 (regional TUC office).
* PCS are putting on a trains from Hull and York .
* Rotherham Unison Health Branch is putting on a coach

Scotland

* The STUC has booked 3 trains. 2 of them will leave during the day, and one will travel down overnight following a rally in Glasgow . Contact 0141 337 8100 for more details.

Wales

* PCS are running coaches from Bangor , Cardiff , Merthyr Tydfil, Newport , Swansea and Wrexham.

Free drinks for attending if you can find writingsonthewall - getting money isn't a problem for me - getting justice is a bit harder to come by....for that we need people.....and lots of them.

10. At 11:46am on 7th Mar 2011, Duncan Keeling wrote:

"I, for one, struggle to find the words that express the anger properly. Well, the words that can be written here at least."

Then don't use words - show action.

https://www.coalitionofresistance.org.uk/2011/01/tuc-national-demonstration-against-cuts-26-march-london/

An opportunity may be available for the government to carry out an experiment. Place a 5-6 million pound a year chief executive in charge say Lloyds and a 5-6 hundred thousand pounds a year chief executive in charge of RBS. See which one delivers value for money after a fixed period in terms of share holder and taxpayer benefit?

#33

I'll be there, I fear the time for talk is near its end, lessons are not beong learned. I yearn for democratic solutions but we need to show numerical strength, all our futures depend on removing this systemic obsession with growth subsidised by debt.

Crisis? what crisis?
https://www.prisonplanet.com/people-of-earth-prepare-for-economic-disaster.html

"Most Americans don’t realize it, but right now the continent of Europe is a financial basket case. Greece and Ireland would have imploded already if they had not been bailed out, and now Portugal is on the verge of collapse. The interest rate on Portugal’s 10-year notes has now been above 7% for about 3 weeks, and most analysts believe that it is only a matter of time before they are forced to accept a bailout."
Tick tock tick tock.........

What bugs me is what do these people spend their money on? One answer is that every well-paid banker I've heard of seems to own a fair bit of land...so they take the most liquid of moveable property and buy and bid up the price of real property. In my country (Scotland), there are huge tracts of land doing nothing but hoovering up EU money for no benefit to the people of the country. I would love to try my hand at farming but the market in land is rigged towards the wealthy. It drives me maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaadddddddddddddddd!!!!!!!!!!!

Good piece...until the end! Why do journalists continually attempt to compare private and public sector salaries as multiples of a minister's or MP's remuneration? It's pointless, as to compare assumes that those being compared with are capable and high-performing, which we know is clearly not the case. No wonder a Barclays executive earned more than the entire Cabinet...he actually delivered on his promise to his stakeholders....come to think of it, if we paid competitive salaries to a much reduced body of MPs and ministers we might attract some individuals capable of doing the job..or maybe paid them incentives against actually keeping their election manifesto promises??....sadly never was the saying so true...."you pay peanuts, you get monkeys"

33. At 12:25pm on 7th Mar 2011, Cthru wrote:

"Hope to see TGM there and WOTW (who will be buying me a drink ;-)"

In addition I shall bring my ID card and CV so I can show you who is really telling the truth in these blogs and who isn't!

The collapse will come from the inside - because we on the inside know how it's already collapsing.
Only those with vested interests will claim the system is in rude health - don't be surprised to hear that they will happily put their short term interests ahead of the long term direction of us all.

...even Merv has broken cover on this one....

https://www.channel4.com/news/mervyn-king-warns-of-new-financial-crisis

Whooooohoooooo - we now have the BoE Governer who has relieved himself of the burden of protecting the bankers without question.

Like so many middle east dictators - the defections begin and they keep on coming until they undermine the state which they are a part of.

Indeed these are shocking numbers - way too low given the great performance. Hopefully the contingent capital structure will not put too many of the big producers off and they are able to retain talent.

The rabble-rousing is all well and good, but perhaps Robert would care to explain to the masses how most of this profit is generated - through risk transformation and taking on the exposures so-called "real economy" does not want. Anyone who complains about this should try to understand what unwinding of this structure would bring to real economy - a massive contraction.

Anyway they should do something about his base salary - £250k is director level, most CEOs are on substantially more!

21. At 12:03pm on 7th Mar 2011, writingsonthewall wrote:
9. At 11:45am on 7th Mar 2011, Zanzare wrote:

"Barclays has had a very successful year, of course he should be rewarded. I personally do not feel that "rent" is being extracted from me. I can transfer money free of charge, place my savings into an equity ISA that is invested on my behalf all over the world and benefit from consumer protection on my credit card for any purchase. One assumes that Lord Turner is just trying to stay sweet with his friends in the Labour party."

'Maybe you can try to explain where "your friends in banking" generate wealth?'

From selling financial services. Surely such a voluminous commentator as yourself must have known this?

https://www.prisonplanet.com/the-fed-distorts-the-economy-with-inflation.html

"Again, the Fed and the US banking system are in a box and they cannot get out. If they were to officially raise interest rates it would lead to financial collapse. If they do not want to raise rates they could curtail QE2 and as a result the economy would collapse, just like Japan did so in 1992 and they have been in depression ever since. Either choice would send unemployment to a U6 level of 37.6% matching that of 1933. Worse yet, if the Fed’s commitments were marked to market you would find the Fed to be insolvent, a condition that has existed for some time. It is not surprising that the Fed and its banker owners don’t want the Fed audited and investigated. Any sale of bonds by the Fed would drive bonds lower and yields higher putting downward pressure on the economy."

What crisis?

11. At 11:46am on 7th Mar 2011, John_from_Hendon wrote:
We NEED a National Maximum Wage!

(set at 20 times the National Minimum Wage)

If we do not do this our society will implode!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If there was a National Maximum Wage, I for one wouldn't have bothered working hard at school so that I could go on to study a good academic subject at a top University (incurring thousands of pounds worth of debt in the process). What would be the point?

Oh come on, its easy...cut off the cast iron guarantee that we the taxpayer provide, let the banks go bust and step in and buy them over for pennies...not only would it sort out the financial crisis but also it would make the banks sort themselves out...then start taxing pay and bonuses over £200K at 95%.... very easy...

The fact that such huge rewards can be paid, simply confirms that being allowed to print money by recycling credit, without even bothering to warn depositors of the risks they are taking, is a very profitable business.

Forgery has been a serious criminal offence for centuries, because it devalues the currency and causes inflation. The private banks' operations have almost the same effect, forcing the BoE, in normal times, to keep interest rates high in order to limit the damage.

Deposit takers should only be allowed to lend shareholders funds or funds deposited specifically for that purpose, as is the case for hedge funds and building societies.

For heaven's sake. What business is it of anyone what Diamond gets paid, apart from Barclays' shareholders. Barclays did not receive any government bail out money! Okay, it benefited from the Government's rescue of the other banks in an indirect way. But it has just paid a whopping bank levy, so perhaps that is sufficient recompense. As an expat who has just returned from Singapore I get truly fed up with the jealous whingeing that is everywhere in the UK. Wake up and smell the coffee! The banking sector pays billions in corporate taxes and its employees billions in income taxes. If the UK does not want that, then there are a boat load of other countries that do.

Has anyone else noticed that Gold has just hit a new record high of $1440.7?

Nah - best not report that or people might start those silly conversations about why gold is 'worth' so much.

(the reality is it's not the gold that's worth more, it's the currencies that are worth-less)

We're more than 70% over the previous peak (the last crisis) - what does that tell you about the 'value' of paper currency?

...oh and silver...
.....and uranium (I believe)
.....in fact nearly all commodities are 'rising' in value rapidly.

Soon you're going to want to swap all your paper money each week for 'valuable' assets - bread, milk, food etc. as soon as you're paid simply because waiting longer increases the chance of the price rising.

.....and within that scope lies hyperinflation....

I now understand why the Govt has banned the sale of automatic weapons.

At the end of 2006, a well-known bank put a page-large advert in the Economist: "wealth is the ability to say to the world to get lost". It nearly got lost indeed, but government and ordinary people's money saved the banks. Is this bonus not earned again - and largely - on ordinary people's backs?

Danellandia's advert for more sanity and respect:

What is the value of money
when it is obtained while
hurting Nature or people?

It greatly reduces the value
of the money maker.

46. At 12:55pm on 7th Mar 2011, mamil52 wrote:
Good piece...until the end! Why do journalists continually attempt to compare private and public sector salaries as multiples of a minister's or MP's remuneration? It's pointless, as to compare assumes that those being compared with are capable and high-performing, which we know is clearly not the case. No wonder a Barclays executive earned more than the entire Cabinet...he actually delivered on his promise to his stakeholders....come to think of it, if we paid competitive salaries to a much reduced body of MPs and ministers we might attract some individuals capable of doing the job..or maybe paid them incentives against actually keeping their election manifesto promises??....sadly never was the saying so true...."you pay peanuts, you get monkeys"

.................
And yet when we paid a fortune to bankers, we also got a monkeys, demonstrated through the credit crunch. Democracy ended when career politicians came to the fore. More money wont help.

#33 good luck with the day of action - I hope it is warm and sunny.

Of course it would be very embarrassing if this call to action ended up with fewer people marching than the Countryside Alliance managed against the fox hunting bill.

Foxes are vermin with nice fur coats and bankers are...

Come to think of it I suspect most bankers probably have a nice fur coat or two in their closet

WOTW 47

'Whooooohoooooo - we now have the BoE Governer who has relieved himself of the burden of protecting the bankers without question.'

A position granted to him by the Tory led government. Good to see, isn't it WOTW, that we finally have a government that isn't prepared to let the bankers get away with blue murder. Quite a contrast with the previous administration.

I'd like to see Mr Diamond on a programme like Question Time - if he could get a word in at all, could he justify the bonus. No doubt a large amount will be donated to charity....

well, he needs to come out and meet the people so we can all congratulate him on his performance and apologise personally for not giving him as much as he is really truly worth. Honestly, this kind of thing is driving people nuts.

We have a few more adverts to make the bank bonuses look out of place in a world made so unstable and harsh for many by rampant greed and lack of solidarity.

MONEY
What is money when it is used
to hurt Nature or people?
A tool of destruction
in the hands of a less-developed being.

LEAST INTELLIGENT
"Maximum profits and lowest costs"
often means:
not respecting Nature and not respecting people.
It means hurting Peace and thus being the least intelligent.

www.danellandia.org for more

AverageJoe 44

'Tick tock tick tock.........'

The problems faced by European countries are directly proportional to the overspend of their elected governments. The solution to these problems is quite obvious namely governments need to start acting responsibly and spend within their means. Thankfully we now have a government in ths country that is doing just that. As such we should avoid the impending disaster you appear to be predicting. If Ed Balls gets his hands on the economy anytime soon that would be a different story.

Large bonus, but... lets hope that he's paying full UK income tax so HMRC are getting the best part of £4.5m of this bonus.

Thats the taxman taking considerably larger slice than if he'd been paid an ordinary salary and this had just been subject to corporation tax, which, as we know, was paid at an average of 2.2%, or £198,000...

#51. At #essie250 wrote:

"#11. John_from_Hendon wrote:
We NEED a National Maximum Wage! (set at 20 times the National Minimum Wage)
If we do not do this our society will implode!

----
If there was a National Maximum Wage, I for one wouldn't have bothered working hard at school so that I could go on to study a good academic subject at a top University (incurring thousands of pounds worth of debt in the process). What would be the point?
"

So you want to live on the National Minimum Wage do you? You clearly haven't though this through - which does suggest that your education was indeed a waste of your time! Only a tiny percentage of the UK population gets in excess of £ 150 K a year but the damage they do to the structure and nature of society is totally disproportionate to their number. Just think about it!

Also note that societies that have a narrower gap between rich and poor are happier and in general better societies.

The BBC are reporting that the "pesata" is back in circulation in parts of Spain.

wotw I suggest you start digging out all those old £sd that may still be lurking down the settee they might be the only thing that will keep your children in food.

I have an old (white) five pound note, could be worth a bob or 120?

Why does Preston use pejorative terms like 'pocketed'. Is he biassed? One does not have much confidence in his judgement

@49. At 12:57pm on 7th Mar 2011, Zanzare wrote:
@@21. At 12:03pm on 7th Mar 2011, writingsonthewall wrote:
->'Maybe you can try to explain where "your friends in banking" generate wealth?'

"From selling financial services. Surely such a voluminous commentator as yourself must have known this?"

I seem to be getting the verbs "generate" and "transfer" muddled here. Could you both be a little more specific?

Dallenandia 63

'www.danellandia.org for more '....jibberish

Why can one not query Preston's impartiality? It does not any moderation.

JFH 66

'Also note that societies that have a narrower gap between rich and poor are happier and in general better societies.'

Can you give an example of a happy society that has a maximum wage of 20 times the minimum wage ?

46. At 12:55pm on 7th Mar 2011, mamil52 wrote:

"No wonder a Barclays executive earned more than the entire Cabinet...he actually delivered on his promise to his stakeholders"

Specifically Bob Diamond? - well so far he has.....but then that's like saying my MP hasn't assisted in enacting any attrocious cuts yet and therefore is worth the salary.
....and before taking over the bank Bob was running Barclays Capital - that would be the investment arm that wrote down 1.3 Billion in the credit crunch...which of course was recouped from the poor old suckers....sorry I mean the retail customers who have 'choice' about moving to a different failing bank!

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/barclays-capital-stability-calms-investors-760767.html

11. At 11:46am on 7th Mar 2011, John_from_Hendon wrote:

We NEED a National Maximum Wage!

(set at 20 times the National Minimum Wage)

If we do not do this our society will implode!
======================================

No, but we would benefit from a higher marginal rate of tax where an individual earning over 20 times the (pro rata'd) wage of the lowest paid employee in any organisation (including sub contracted service providers) would be taxed at 80% on all earnings over 20 times the rate of the lowest employee.

Therefore for a company that pays minimum wage £5.93 x 40 x 52 = £12,334.40 so anyone earning over £246,688 per annum would find earning s over £246K taxed at 80%.

This would not stop individuals earning incentivised payments but would ensure that minimum wage employees became better rewarded and that those earning "silly" money (other than entrepreneurs; when it is your money at risk you should be able to earn what you like) pay "silly" tax on it.

@ 30. At 12:19pm on 7th Mar 2011, Mortgaged_Mike wrote:

> Sure, we can all feel aggrieved at this, but it can also all sound like envy.

Get away with you - the man's a banker. Who could envy that?

Some years ago, we asked a famous bank for advice on investing in green energy. Without us asking, they at once suggested to transfer the profits "OFFSHORE". We said we did not want that, because one day the OFFSHORE might be "flooded". The whole banking sector, including the fiscal paradises, where a lot of the "mainland banks" operate needs to go through a disinfecting process. Otherwise, this world will see more discontentment, conflicts and social unrest. Surely, not even the bank that said "wealth is the ability to say to the world to get lost" will want that to happen!? So, the disinfecting process will be beneficial for banks too! The process should include the creation of new clean currency (the etico) to get rid of criminal, abusive and irrational money, often hidden in so-called paradises that contribute to this world's present insanity.

54. At 13:07pm on 7th Mar 2011, probusiness wrote:
..... Wake up and smell the coffee! The banking sector pays billions in corporate taxes and its employees billions in income taxes. If the UK does not want that, then there are a boat load of other countries that do.

Well actually it doesn't does it! Or maybe you conveniently ignored that fact from a couple of weeks ago.

Secondly, even if the total profit of banks went to the UK coffers it would be years before the debt is paid off. A debt created by bailing out the banks. So the net worth to a country of supporting a bank (huge expense) and tax (moderate income) is arguable. This does not even take into account the social cost.

UK debt : 2400 billion of which 1400 was bank bailout.
Barclays tax on 11billion was 110million. So barclays tax would take 10,000 years !!! to clear the uk bank debt.

Even if all the banks get back to profit of billions (like barclays) and paid moderate tax even the great grand children of everybody reading this would still be waiting for the debt to clear!!!!!!!!!

59. At 13:17pm on 7th Mar 2011, Justin150

2 questions for you (to be reposted every time until you answer them)

1) When is the march in SUPPORT of capitalism? - and what is the expected turnout?
2) How's that no-fly zone over Lybia theory coming along? I hear the planes you confidently told me about don't have the PARTS to complete such a task!

Which is worse? - the antics of the incompetent Government or whose who admire those antics blindly following them into the pyre?

65. At 13:37pm on 7th Mar 2011, Rational Viewpoint wrote:
"lets hope that he's paying full UK income tax so HMRC are getting the best part of £4.5m of this bonus. "


Hope? HOPE? There's absolutely no chance there will be full income tax paid.

He's just been handed over £6m - first call is to his accountant to fill his tax return in and avoid most of the income tax due.

75. At 13:48pm on 7th Mar 2011, Jacques Cartier wrote:

"Get away with you - the man's a banker. Who could envy that?"

Another banker?

What people don't realise is it's the greedy who are driven by envy - not the rest of us.
We were all quite happily sitting here allowing the greed of the bankers to continue whilst it was all a "harmless game" - but just as you cannot leave the children unattended in the house - we cannot leave bankers unattended and look what happened.

We tolerated bankers - not supported them. Now they have contributed to collapsing the system we don't even want to tolerate them

....it all seems sensible to me - only the bankers will feel this is unfair (and their likeminded supporters) - who may (or may not) be marching 'for bankers' in the future on the streets of Britain.

71. At 13:41pm on 7th Mar 2011, NAJ wrote:

"Why can one not query Preston's impartiality? It does not any moderation."

Why do people set up accounts solely to question Roberts impartiality - how about you show some yourself TROLL!

Rather than having a march about public sector cuts I was wondering what the impact would be if a million citizens marched on Canary Warf in protest about banker's pay? Similar to what is happening in North Africa. The bankers are running this place so is there a way of peacefully overthrowing them?

"66. At 13:37pm on 7th Mar 2011, John_from_Hendon wrote:
...
We NEED a National Maximum Wage!
...
Also note that societies that have a narrower gap between rich and poor are happier and in general better societies."

The former was tried before, and somehow never quite works out as intended - last century's history is a great illustration.

The latter statement needs to be considered carefully - it is only true when there's sufficient wealth for everyone to go round, e.g. Scandinavia; not so in North Korea, for example. The killer is that there is always less of some resources than people would like (in poor societies, food; in richer, mansions with helipads). Money allows societies to redistribute these in a non-violent manner, without resorting to pitchforks. And if you were to respond that the x20 multiple is sufficient to take care of that, well, who is to say that the next cash - strapped government would not reduce it to 17.3? After all this is what 50% tax rate is about. Anyway personally, I prefer the gap between poor and me quite wide, thank you :-) and I use my money to purchase that gap.

67. At 13:38pm on 7th Mar 2011, creditunionhero wrote:

"wotw I suggest you start digging out all those old £sd that may still be lurking down the settee they might be the only thing that will keep your children in food."

Crikey mate - how old do you think I am????

I do have all my old foreign coins - including Greek Drachma's - for just such an occassion.
However it's more for sentimental reasons than practical ones - they would have to issue a new currency I'm afraid or the London museems would become the new banks overnight!

@51. At 13:02pm on 7th Mar 2011, jessie250 wrote:
"If there was a National Maximum Wage, I for one wouldn't have bothered working hard at school so that I could go on to study a good academic subject at a top University (incurring thousands of pounds worth of debt in the process). What would be the point?"

I went to uni to study mechanical engineering because it was something I wanted to do and found it interesting (and also because my particle physics knowledge was sadly lacking so I couldn't study Physics and the Universe instead).

If all you want is money, then uni might not be the way for you. Perhaps you should take a leaf out of Alan Sugar's book? After all, with hard work and graft capitalism guarantees you a place at the top, doesn't it? Get into banking, wing a £50k bung to DC, have a few nice lunches and you could be snoozing in the House of Lords before you can say "We require these large bonuses in order to attract and retain talent."

It's a shame about the knock-on effects of the bankers - you could've got yourself a part time job while at uni to help offset the debt. But then if we didn't have this current system, perhaps you wouldn't have the debt in the first place - though would there be any infrastructure in place for your ideal job once you finished uni? What a conundrum to have to deal with.

Doh 74

'No, but we would benefit from a higher marginal rate of tax where an individual earning over 20 times the (pro rata'd) wage of the lowest paid employee in any organisation (including sub contracted service providers) would be taxed at 80% on all earnings over 20 times the rate of the lowest employee.'

This would achieve exactly the same outcome as JFH's proposal namely anyone required to pay this tax would emigrate. Perhaps you could point out just one example of a country with a top rate of tax of 80% or more which has a successful economy.

72. At 13:42pm on 7th Mar 2011, jobsagoodin wrote:

"Can you give an example of a happy society that has a maximum wage of 20 times the minimum wage ?"

Can you name a happy society - full stop?

I can't - because no society is happy I'm afraid. Mainly due to the inequalities all around them - no egalitarian society - no happy society.

....but if you can provide one I'll be happy to hear it.

If you think about your question you have dismissed Capitalism as a good system with one fell swoop - because no happy societies mean no happy capitalist societies.

....and as there are no communist or anarchic societies (expect possibly Egypt where everyone seems to be happy) - then the results of your survey speak volumes.

It's not the amount their earning really, it is the fact that in economics the worth of any commodity is in relation to all others, so to be paid so handsomely only means many others are not, it might be the going rate but if everyone strike to do the same watch the government condemn their actions, what was said in the eighties about the steel workers and miners might be true and if it was then, why is the government not reacting the same way
The steelworkers and miners never went to ox-bridge or any ivy league elitist university

51. At 13:02pm on 7th Mar 2011, jessie250 wrote:
11. At 11:46am on 7th Mar 2011, John_from_Hendon wrote:
We NEED a National Maximum Wage!

(set at 20 times the National Minimum Wage)

If we do not do this our society will implode!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If there was a National Maximum Wage, I for one wouldn't have bothered working hard at school so that I could go on to study a good academic subject at a top University (incurring thousands of pounds worth of debt in the process). What would be the point?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To get 20 times as much as people on the minimum wage? Or is this too hard for you to grasp? If so, minimum wage may be your only option.

#72. jobsagoodin wrote:

"JFH 66

'Also note that societies that have a narrower gap between rich and poor are happier and in general better societies.'

Can you give an example of a happy society that has a maximum wage of 20 times the minimum wage ?"

The classical example is Sweden. I chose the 20 times number as a direct result of David Cameron's statements about acceptable multiples in a business. The point is that there has to be a Maximum Income.

WOTW 78

'1) When is the march in SUPPORT of capitalism? - and what is the expected turnout?'

There's no need to have such as march, anymore than there's a need to have a march in favour of free speech or democracy. We already have these things and are much the better for it. In any case it's clear that the overwhelming majority of people in this country are in favour of capitalism, as was demonstrated at the last election.

A friend of mine is a tenant farmer who reckons that he clears a net £30k pa - about 1/200 or 0.5% of Mr Diamond's "compensation".

All of us rely on the agricultural surplus in order to survive. If he were kidnapped by aliens, what loss would Mr Diamond be? The loss of 200 farmers however, would be serious!

I'm not a banker but people need to get real if they think that £6.7m is excessive bonus (not salary) for one of the biggest banks in the world that has made strong profits and not been bailed out by the goverment.

To put it into some sort of perspective, these people are earning less than many people who kick a football about for a living, at clubs that are making a loss whilst their fans spend over half their daily take home for a single ticket to a 90-minute match.

They on the other hand are responsible for making huge decisions at companies that are making money and employ tens of thousands of people.

Anyone who banks with Barclays and disagrees with the level of bonuses paid should move their account elsewhere. Can I suggest either Triodos Bank or the Cooperative Bank?

47. At 12:56pm on 7th Mar 2011, writingsonthewall wrote:

"In addition I shall bring my ID card and CV so I can show you who is really telling the truth in these blogs and who isn't!"

Man, I don't need your CV or ID card (will it say writingisonthewall?? :-) I like many others can make my own mind up having seen the way things work in the UK over the past 30 years. What I'm saying is you don't have to convince me your arguments on here are enough to make me think that we broadly agree.

I will be on the march not becuase I have any alegiance to the TUC but because the way the UK works (ie Capitalism in it's current form) is wrong and I don't want my kids to grow up thinking that this is how it has to be.

I think the next 12 months will be pivotal, if you believe that things must change then you have to do things:

1) Change your bank - move to a Buiding Society or a Credit Union
2) Write to your MP expressing your unhappiness with how things are (especially Fractional Reserve Banking and Government spending funded through borrowing)
3) March on the 26th.....

I can't help thinking that the Matrix is a perfect analogy, we've seen the real world and the bankers are furiously trying to persuade us back into seeing the world their way. Their angry words and their arrogance (we'll leave the country, you can't do without us etc etc) are their desperate attempts to frighten us into submission. Personally I had no idea where money came form (or I thought I did vaguely) now I know, I'm horrified and it has to stop.

The latest attempt via the giving away of shares in publicly owned banks is just another tactic, if the fear doesn't work, try greed. It's always worked in the past. Come on people of the UK you're better than this and you know it.

64. At 13:31pm on 7th Mar 2011, jobsagoodin wrote:
AverageJoe 44

'Tick tock tick tock.........'

The problems faced by European countries are directly proportional to the overspend of their elected governments. The solution to these problems is quite obvious namely governments need to start acting responsibly and spend within their means. Thankfully we now have a government in ths country that is doing just that. As such we should avoid the impending disaster you appear to be predicting. If Ed Balls gets his hands on the economy anytime soon that would be a different story.

..............
64. At 13:31pm on 7th Mar 2011, jobsagoodin wrote:
AverageJoe 44

'Tick tock tick tock.........'

The problems faced by European countries are directly proportional to the overspend of their elected governments. The solution to these problems is quite obvious namely governments need to start acting responsibly and spend within their means. Thankfully we now have a government in ths country that is doing just that. As such we should avoid the impending disaster you appear to be predicting. If Ed Balls gets his hands on the economy anytime soon that would be a different story.
...................

You misunderstand. The cutbacks will choke off the only part of the economy that is propping it up. It will increase unemployment and reduce tax receipts leading to a death spiral in the economy just as it has in Greece and Ireland. All Governments are in debt, because all money is created as debt, and the government/businesses/punters have to borrow the money from banks for it to even exist. The only solution is monetary reform (see Positive Money web site). The only 'benefit' of this government is that they will bring about the distruction of our economy faster, making it clearer to the masses the cause of the crisis, and what has to be done to fix it. Labour would have done the same thing, it just would have taken longer, and the cause would have been less obvious.

f Bob Diamond's worth $10 million for not spotting the credit crisis coming then i must be worth a damn sight more because I saw it and posted here. Then we have the failure of BarCap to spot the bottom in march 09 and triple up on straight forward stock value for their own mother bank, likewise a failure to catch the top of oil a bit back.
These guys are not talent. Talent doesn't work in banks and hedge funds. It dips in and out of the markets to make what it wants when it wants and carries on another life.

before all of you start I am not a well paid executive - far far from it...

When will you idealists realise that the only way we will come out of this is by benefiting from our 1 real asset as a country - our banking system! We no longer have manufacturing to boost the economy and we barely have an natural resources to speak of.

Ok they got us into this I agree but they are also the ones who will also make the main difference in getting us out of this. Imagine what situation we would be if the likes of HSBC did decide to move their HQ. Not only would we lose their tax (ok not as much as we would like) but also their high earners will move meaning that they do not spend that money in our economy.

As a chief exec of a business in profit why does Bob Diamond not deserve his bonus - other chief execs in other industries do and they don't need to be in profit to receive this?

Whilst Mr Diamond maybe getting a huge bonus he is also responsible for the jobs and livelyhood of thousands of people in this country - in my book he deserves it.

51. At 13:02pm on 7th Mar 2011, jessie250 wrote:

"If there was a National Maximum Wage, I for one wouldn't have bothered working hard at school so that I could go on to study a good academic subject at a top University (incurring thousands of pounds worth of debt in the process). What would be the point? "

What I love about this post is that the writer clearly has no value in education (other than what you can earn from it as a career)

I mean what 'price' would we put on a university graduate coming up with an alternative to Capitalism that even the mindless moronic capitalists could understand?

I'd say not a good career - but boy would you be doing your country a huge favour - and if you want to talk about 'value' - then it would be limitless.

This is where capitalists and the rest of us depart - materliastic tendencies mean that they know the price of everything - but the value of nothing.

....and most of them can't even understand that simple line!

All this user's posts have been removed.Why?