Pulis ensures Stoke prosper

Stoke will go down this season. On Saturday they scored through a very dodgy pen, two stonewall penalties for Liverpool were turned down and sitter after sitter was missed by Suarez, Henderson etc. All the luck that Stoke were due this season has come in one game. They'd better be wary of beachballs when they play Sunderland.

Liverpool fans, eh?

One of the great joys of being a Stoke fan is reading the spasms of fury from our "betters".

We defend with enthusiasm and vigour. Because we don't have a diver in the Gerrard class, we have to stop the other side from scoring.

RE #2:

Steven Gerrard is the finest England midfielder for decades so wash your mouth out!

...as for betters, I don't think Liverpool fans need to reel off our honours list... do you?

...and to be fair, I didn't exactly class the first comment with a 'spasm of fury.' Well done internet warrior!

Good luck to Stoke. Needed a Welshman to do it for them though! Top 10.

Definitely not relegation material. Say what you will about their style of football but it works for them. Arsene Wenger practically fills his pants when he has to make the away trip to the Britannia every season. And that is frankly beautiful. I still think that Stoke are a physical team (which is no bad thing) but they definitely moved away from their heavy reliance on the long ball last season. They are more than capable of playing some pretty attractive counter-attacking football on the day. I wish them every success.

"Spasm of fury?" You should see me when the lollipop ladies stop me on the way to work in the morning. Especially the one that leaves her stick trailing behind her as she walks back to the side, just to make you wait that little bit longer.

I have the utmost admiration for Stoke. When they came up they were prime candidates for relegation, yet Tony Pulis stuck to his guns while slowly improving the squad and not speculating financially on staying in the Premier League. He said on many occasions that he was going to gradually introduce more flair to the team, and has done exactly that. Etherington, Pennant, Waters, Crouch etc are all skilful players who are comfortable on the ball, and the club deserve to be applauded for what they have done for the English top flight. The Wengers of the world may moan, but Stoke have noted that, almost without exception, every team that comes up and "tries to play football" goes straight back down (see WBA, Blackpool etc).

And by the way, I'm a Liverpool fan. Angry about the obvious injustice from Saturday, but not so much that I can't have admiration for what is an excellent football club.

cheeseisthedevilswork your comments are simply dreadful! Did you even watch the game on Saturday? Carragher had his arm around Walters waist! Clearly holding him back and impeding his movement, stonewall/cast iron penalty! Also you think Stoke will be relegated? So we are worse than Swansea, Norwich, Blackburn, Wigan, Wolves etc?..........I think not! I agree that Stoke rode there luck at times but so will every team at some point this season! The fact that Liverpool couldn't score, shows how far they have fallen, and how much Stoke have progressed and improved! Sorry to break the bad news Liverpool fans, but, your just not famous anymore, and the majority of you are living in the past! I predict another trophyless season at Anfield! Up the Potters!

People like the first couple of commenters make me ashamed to be a Liverpool fan. If we had played better, created our chances properly and put away the ones we did have, we wouldn't have had to rely on decisions from the ref. There was no injustice in the result - Stoke defended and played very well and again I can only admire them.

Tony Pulis is a fantastic manager. He makes sensible transfers at sensible prices. He's backed up by a chairman who clearly has confidence in his manager (with good reason) and makes Stoke a brilliantly successful, effective football team, with no semblance of hubris or entitlement. Stoke fan, if I can ask of you one thing, please don't be dissatisfied with being a consistent top flight club like Everton fans. Don't call for the resignation of your chairman for keeping you there despite a lack of silly money. You probably won't anyway, so I hope you continue doing well.

Thorne9 - what planet are you on? We were unlucky not to have 2 penalties and were by far the better team. We've looked better than most teams so far except for the Manchester clubs and maybe Chelsea. We're actually rising again, and I'm not blinkered enough to think we'll win the league but top 4 is a realistic aim. Decent investment and Kenny Dalglish have been great for the club, and we may well challenge in the next 2-3 years, especially when FFP comes into force. We're still a huge club in the domestic, European and global sense, so don't write us off just yet!

Congratulations to Steve Wilson for his excellent article. As a lifelong Stoke City fan (41 years as a supporter ) I consider us as an extremely fortunate club to have TP as our manager. Together with the fantastic financial backing of the Coates family Tony Pulis has rebuilt a club in a way we could only have dreamed of when he returned as manager just over 5 years ago. His unrivalled success in building a promoion winning team, in two seasons, followed by the highly efficient way in which he has assembled a squad to compete in and grace the Premiership is a dream come true and only serves to underline the idiotic decision taken by the clubs previous Icelandic owners to dismiss Pulis some 6 years ago. I conclude by thanking him for giving me, and many other Stoke fans, their greatest ever memories of being a Potters fan, ie going to Wembley and winning an F A Cup semi final 5 -0 against Bolton. What a day that was. Looking forward to TP's and Stoke City's continued success

Pure comedy - did I miss a meeting?

"...but really everyone with an interest in English football retaining some of its unique English qualities should be grateful for their achievements over the last three years...".

What precisely are these unique English qualities?

Dreadful technique?
Witless clogging?
A complete inability to maintain possession?

Stoke City typify everything that is wrong with English football and are the complete antithesis of the beautiful game.

Next time you watch a game at the Britannia Stadium, note how small the pitch is - a tactic aimed at denying space to teams that have the temerity to play proper football.

The sooner they are relegated the better...

8.At 20:14 14th Sep 2011, astoundingdonkeyjegg wrote:

Etherington, Pennant, Waters, Crouch etc are all skilful players who are comfortable on the ball, and the club deserve to be applauded for what they have done for the English top flight.

Are you feeling ok?
you've named 2 players who can run fast, but are injury prone and inconsistent,
and 2 donkeys??????
none of them are skillful and comfortable on the ball, thats why they play for Stoke.

And if the club should be applauded for what they have done for the top flight
(turned most games they play into scrappy monotonous affairs, or breaking real talents legs) then we should all be on our feet celebrating the gift of Stoke FC to the premiership.

Although my feeble attempts at humour haven't prompted much mirth I'm comfortable with what I wrote regarding the game itself. The referee had three penalty decisions to make, he got all three wrong and all were in favour of Stoke. Regarding the missed chances Liverpool have only themselves to blame but whilst those misses contributed towards the result so did the wrong decisions by the referee. As for the penalty that was given, yes there was some contact but enough to impede? Any force that Carragher exherted on Walters would have been to pull him back and yet he "fell" forward. It was a blatant dive, he cheated.

Steve, during the coverage of most matches there will be a slow-motion replay of a passage of play and someone will ask "is there contact?" This does my head in. Contact does not in itself constitute a foul. It is a foul if the other player is unfairly impeded. There doesn't even have to be any contact e.g. if a defender impedes a striker by forcing him to take avoiding action e.g. jump out of the way, then it is a foul regardless of whether there is any contact made. The ignorance of some commentators and pundits these days is just staggering. "Is there contact?" just means "I don't know what I'm talking about."

All this user's posts have been removed.Why?

What Stoke have put Arsene Wenger through over the last few years is a total disgrace! Pulis as brought nothing but shame on stoke and premiership football! Constant managers complaining about there tactics and foul play!

Crouch = Donkey, slower than a cart horse and couldnt lace Niall Quinns boots!

Pennent = Been at more teams than Emile Heskey, if he spent more time thinking about his football than messing with other stuff.... well say no more

Etherington = Shocker

Stoke = Disgrace

14. At 20:57 14th Sep 2011, sumo82 wrote:
8.At 20:14 14th Sep 2011, astoundingdonkeyjegg wrote:

Etherington, Pennant, Waters, Crouch etc are all skilful players who are comfortable on the ball, and the club deserve to be applauded for what they have done for the English top flight.

Are you feeling ok?
you've named 2 players who can run fast, but are injury prone and inconsistent,
and 2 donkeys??????
none of them are skillful and comfortable on the ball, thats why they play for Stoke.

And if the club should be applauded for what they have done for the top flight
(turned most games they play into scrappy monotonous affairs, or breaking real talents legs) then we should all be on our feet celebrating the gift of Stoke FC to the premiership.

----------------------------------------------------------------

They have brought something different to the league - the idea that you don't have to start to try and play total football the second you get promoted. They have also played better football each season, unlike many teams who survive the first year and try to play that way all the time.

Crouch is a quality FOOTBALLER. Note that - footballer. He is very, very good with the ball at his FEET - not on his head. He has a first touch that few in the current England team can compare to. Pennant is a proper winger who can beat a man and put a good cross in, and Etherington has been one of the most underrated players for the last 2 seasons. Walters was good last season and while he's not exactly Messi, he ain't exactly Heskey either.

I would suggest you stop reading Arsene Wenger's "How to Play Pretty Football and Win ****All", and look at the fact that there are some very good players among the less-fashionable teams in the league. After all, Greece won Euro 2004 playing some of the "worst" football we've ever seen. Stoke play much better than that.

Also, look at the physical stature of the Stoke team. When men who are on average 4 inches taller than their rivals play against them, of course it'll look physical.. It's like the seniors playing the under-17s - the under-17s will just bounce off them. This is why it always looks like Stoke are merely a battering ram.

As someone who supports the other team in the Potteries (sorry but ho hum) I have to say that all these negative comments are quite sad in a way. The fact of the matter is not whether SCFC play negatively, but why other teams are unable to deal effectively with the tactics employed. Any team that has aspirations to win the league has to be able to deal with different styles and weather conditions and ultimately they should be able to work out a suitable tactic to overcome the strengths of any opposition - if they are unable to do so then it suggests to me that SCFC are not (as some people put it) rubbish but are effective at the style they utilise (however negative it may be perceived)

In addition, teams evolve over the course of time. As I seem to recall the Arsenal team of the Arsene Wenger era (still ongoing) had their development through the solid defence tactics of George Graham - does that make them a bad team - of course not.

Lots of teams have tried to outmuscle long established inhabitants of the Premier League by trying to mirror them but it is not always easy to do this and therefore you do have to play to your team's strengths.

One final point is this, if SCFC are rubbish (as some people claim) , then why have they been able to survive in the Premier League for the past 3 seasons - surely all these other better teams would be winning week in week out.

Anyway up the Valiants

Stoke specifically buy big dirty players to suit there style of play, they had opportunities to get a neat footballer but they instead opt for Wilson Palacios?

If crouch is such a great player(very very good with the ball at his feet, a first touch that few in the England team can compare to) then why has he got such a shocking goal record were ever he has been?

I'm not advocating Arsene Wenger's tippy tappy toothless approach either, they to have made equally as bad signings as Stoke this summer. Between Arsenal and Stoke you have spent over £50 million on absolute dross. The best player that has been signed is an ageing Arteta, and if Stoke were such a formidable force this season then why didn't he sign for Stoke?
(you can probably offer him a longer stint of european football this season)

Stoke have not improved their football one bit. They rely on long ball, physical play that frequently crosses the line, throws ins, and lumps like Shawcross to smash anything (players included) that get in their way.

They are a stain on the Premier League and it is a shame that (moderate) success can be achieved through their style of play.

Wait a minute... last BBC blog I read was about Arsenal adding substance to style...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/philmcnulty/2011/09/wenger_rebuilds_with_substance.html
and now this!
Have Stoke become the New Gunners Steve? Errr dont think so ( And Arsenal have not become anything like Stoke Phil!)
So wheres the meat in this blog? Or is the text as meaningless as the title.
Fact. Stoke buy big players cos they play a physical game, There's not much style in that.

The irony of the title of this blog is not lost on me, in arguing the other side of the 'substance or style' debate raised by a certain P. McNulty in a blog about Arsenal the other day.

It raises a few questions: what would fans rather see, substance or style? Does it matter as long as a team wins? Are Stoke and Arsenal ironically beginning to swap styles and outlooks a little this season?

Are Stoke and Arsenal ironically beginning to swap styles and outlooks a little this season?

Well Arsenal have had 3 red cards already, to Stoke's pathetic tally of 0, so you could be right!!

good grief. Some of the comments on this thread are diabolical!
How can you say that stoke havn't improved?
how can you say that we rely on small pitches, long throw ins and enormous players, when quite clearly we went to wembley and out - played a decent side!? We didnt scroe anything from throw ins or set pieces, we used the width to our advantage and scored 5 goals that any team would be proud of!
What is a joke is that people dont look at stoke from a wider perspective. We would have finished 9th last year without injury before the wigan game! We imporve every year, bringing in better players each season.

Cheeseisthedevilswork - you dont have a clue!? You weren't at the game. The decisions that went against stoke were dreadful in the first half! They weren't shown on match of the day because they needed to show the 'big decisions', but i dont think you can blame the ref for liverpools inability to beat a side that "will go down this season." The Delap decision was dodgy, yes, but you cant claim the second one as a "stonewall" penalty!

Finally, our style of play kept us up for the first couple of seasons, but if anyone saying things against stoke had actually seen a game in full, then you would be able to construct a better opinion of the wing play and creativity that we now have. Pennant and Etherington are the two best natural wingers in the league outside the top 3 (united, city and chelsea).

Stokes game tomorrow night will really show how far we have come in the past 5 years.
You don't see liverpool in europe these days.

its just a case of do you want to be competitive or not. stoke's style isn't pretty but its effective. also nobody was comlpaing when mourinho played a similar style of play at chelsea and won 5 trophies.

I don't watch Stoke City because they bore me, that said, I am impressed with the job Tony Pulis has done and would imagine all Stoke fans are chuffed with their lot. Enjoy it whilst it lasts.

Wow, what tripe comments from the Scouse and Goon set (sounds like dodgy solicitors to me...)

First, if you can't see how much Stoke's essential style of play has changed (or arguably, they've got one) in the time since they've been promoted, you need to learn to think for yourself and trust the evidence of your senses instead of blindly believing the tripe that comes out of Wengers mouth. Hint: he's got an agenda too, hardly the most impartial observer in the world...

Second, if all you can do is make tripe comments about the referee from the last match, when the article is about what TP has done in *FIVE* seasons, well I'd give you the worst curse I can think of, but you're already a mind-wiped Red who thinks "Kenny Dalglish" is the secret name of god...

Spare us all please. I doubt Wenger or Dalglish really believes any of the preposterous posturing they do in the press, so please don't insult them by coming on here and quoting their last comments to some reporter like it was divine proclamation.

If you can't think for yourselves, shut up, listen and learn. I'm sure the rest of us don't need you to repeat your managers greatest press quotes. We knew them for the posturing rubbish they were when they were uttered, and we're singularly not impressed that you haven't figured it out yet...

My personal view is there are a lot of teams that are bitter against Stoke because in the past we have not played the pretty football that everyone wants us to play. Nowadays however, we have shown everyone what we can do. I would like to point cheeseisthedevilswork to Stoke vs Chelsea at the Britannia last season when we drew 1-1. Every sky pundit said that we outplayed them, and every person who watched that match including a friend who is a life long chelsea fan applauded the way that Stoke played a fluent passing game. Pennant last season was sensational, and if he was playing for any other club, would have appeared for England. As for the comments made about Shawcross, he made one mistimed tackle and now thanks to Wenger has been dubbed a cheat. Ryan Shawcross is one of the most talented young centre backs in the entire premiership. Stoke have a fantastic disciplinary record now - yes we are strong in the tackle and sometimes over do it, but more often then not nowadays we make those tackles and we shut teams out because we are well organised and have a sensational defence. So as soon as anyone can come up with an actual arguement why Stoke are a bad side, i will listen. Just remember - no one complained when Bolton finished fifth playing dirtier football under Big Sam. So please let me know when you have a worthwhile arguement, but in the meantime i recommend you actually think before you speak, coz quite frankly, you're making fools of yourselves.

Stoke are one of the teams that make the Premiership the best in the world and most interesting to watch. What other leagues show so many contrasting styles of football. The physicality of Stoke, tippy-tappy football of Arsenal or the sheer ruthlessness of Manchester Utd.

Stoke make big teams suffer and that's no bad thing. In too many leagues the big teams always have there own way but in the Premiership and especially against Stoke that doesn't always happen.

To win the Premiership you sometimes you need to show plenty of character. If you want to beat Stoke at the Brittania Stadium you need it in spades. Some teams just don't have enough.

I wasn't a fan of Stoke at first but they have slowly won me over. And its good to see a smaller team doing well. Good luck to them.

The more Stoke is criticised the more they will have a seige mentality and they will be harder to beat. If Tony Pulis is reading some of these comments criticising Stoke it will probably music to his ears.

With all due respect, this is absolute rubbish. Stoke have not changed their style in the slightest. When was the last time they had a playmaker or someone with real flair? They are a team so reliant on balls being lobbed into the box via Delap or either wing, they've forgotten how to score a good goal. Can anyone remember the last time they did?

Personally, I absolutely detest Stoke, they are the lowest of the low in footballing terms. Tony Pulis seems to forget football is a game of entertainment. Relegation beckons, hopefully.

One interesting thing about Tony Pulis he seems to be a good man-manager and gets the best out of players.

@JTaylor14

Feel free to hate Stoke but modern football is not about entertainment, it is about winning. Entertainment comes a distant second. Most Managers would rather their team win 1-0 playing ugly football than play pretty football and draw. Barcelona on Tuesday night is a case point. They played nice football but still only drew.

#32 'Personally, I absolutely detest Stoke, they are the lowest of the low in footballing terms.'

I think actually you'll find they're 5th in the Premier League, which makes them pretty near the highest of the high by my simple maths? Where's the team you support by the way?

And just because they got there without highly skilled (and highly paid, highly priced) players - well seems to me that's a great testimony to their manager, and the club management. Stoke isn't a big enough place to have a top-10 football team in the modern world - but who's going to tell Pulis that!

It probably came across in my last comment, but i'm not a Stoke fan. Alas, I am a West Ham fan.

Whether this explains my view on entertainment and winning is debatable. But I will watch games on the TV for the sake of watching good football. I'll watch Man Utd on Sky, just for the fact that you'll see a bag full of goals (in the last few matches anyway) and some fantastic passages of play.

I watched the Barcelona game you referenced, as a complete neutral, but I still enjoyed it because they played some good football, had some nice touches, and that David Villa free kick was fantastic.

It's not impossible to manage between results and good football I don't think. I'd settle for a West Ham team, sitting comfortably mid table in the Premiership, playing some good football, with the odd cup run. What's so wrong with that?

Some of the comments on here are not only shocking, but represent how ignorant and stereotypical the general public really are. Yes, I'm a Stoke fan, but I, unlike others on here, am willing to view others opinions and clubs for that matter with a modicum of decency (to a certain point at least). However, a minority of supporters from these big clubs seem to refuse to accept that Stoke do actually play the same game. They make thoughtless assumptions in a desperate and disappointing attempt to convince themselves and others that all Stoke players are cloggers, and that they should be relegated by default because one of our players made a bad tackle two years ago. I'm only fourteen, but at least I can express myself eloquently enough and have enough respect for others to be able to comment in an intellectual discussion as opposed to a thoughtless argument.

#36 'I'd settle for a West Ham team, sitting comfortably mid table in the Premiership, playing some good football, with the odd cup run. What's so wrong with that?'

Nothing, except as Birmingham, Portsmouth, West Ham and others have proved, it can't be done. In the modern game, to have a good cup run AND stay in the premier league you have to have a bigger squad of better players than the likes of those clubs can afford.

And as a fellow West Ham fan, may I sadly point out that frequently last season they were truly awful, and thoroughly deserved to be relegated. But whereas Stoke is too small a place to ever attract top players or large crowds, West Ham as a London club have no such excuse. Their decline is due to inept managers and owners over a long period of time. Stoke deserve asll the plaudits they get.

Good luck to Stoke and hope they do well

They have a style of play that works, agitates top teams and gets results. Got nothing against it. Its not as if a lot of teams in the top tier have copied their style. Adds bit of variety into the different styles of teams in the league as well as hopefully successfully soon on the European stage.

Got respect for small teams that make life hard for the big clubs. Bogey teams are needed, especially ones of contrasting styles.

As much as I like watching La Liga at times, sometimes gets too predictable that most, if not all, La Liga teams trying to play in similar fashion.

There is a lot of waffle and negative character assassination about Stoke which has painted them in a certain manner, especially by fans of a certain club (a clue...they did the same character assassination job of Bolton when under Big Sam). When we played them last season at Stoke's ground, it was tough and hard but I didn't find it an overly/dangerous aggressive approach from them at all. Man up. They mix it up reasonably well, for a club of their stature, with the width provided from the likes of Pennant and Etherington. Its not as if its all set pieces and long throws.

'note how small the pitch is - a tactic aimed at denying space to teams that have the temerity to play proper football.'

Yikes. If your football is good enough, i.e., your team is good on the ball than you should be able to overcome pitch size.

Arsenal managed to play some pretty fine football at Highbury under Wenger, which wasn't exactly a huge pitch was it.

I remember when they played CL games at the bigger pitch at Wembley. They struggled. Though not necessarily saying its down to pitch size but just putting it out there.

Just got a feeling that Stoke will struggle to score goals this season (yes, even with the addition of Crouch et al..), and whilst I'm sure Phil is right about Pulis' intolerance of player complacency it can get to a level amongst individual players that makes it difficult for a a manager to control. Most players do tend to believe the hype. Add to this the additional pressure provided by European football this season, and their 'gambling' in the transfer market (surely a slight indication that at the top levels of the club there is a belief that their Premier League place is safe this season, so at least a hint of complacency within the club structure already), then actually I make Stoke one of the favourites to go down.

Correction - In my last post I meant to refer to Steve (Wilson) and not Phil!

In my opinion, Stoke deserve to be applauded for showing that a less fashionable side can make it to the EPL and hold their own there without resorting to putting the club at risk by spending money way beyond their means (unlike Portsmouth or Hull for instance).

Pullis made the best of the resources available to him to build a side that was capable of winning promotion to the EPL, then surviving the first season and going on to consolidate as a comfortable mid-table side.

To achieve that, Pullis had to play to the strengths of the players he had available, which inevitably meant they weren't going to play silky football from the off. You need better quality players right throughout the team to do that, otherwise, like WBA, Burnley and Blackpool, you'll find that opponents will pick you off because you open yourself up too much.

There is no doubt that Pullis has improved the quality and depth of his squad each season, and I expect them to kick on again this season. I predicted 9th place for them last season, and had they beaten Wigan on the final day, I believe that is where they would have finished.

This year, I'm going to predict they will finish in a Europa League qualifying place in the league.

40 I don't think Stoke will be in any danger of going down, though I take your point that the spending they have embarked on this season suggests that the club's hierarchy also believe that.

However, I think that having established the club over 3 seasons in the premiership, now is the right time to show a bit more ambition to take the club to a higher level. I'm sure it's a well calculated risk, as they have shown themselves to be fairly prudent up to now.

Too many haters that blatantly watch football for all the wrong reasons, whats so bad about true grit and determination?? We may not be scoring heaps of quality goals, but we will defend better than most teams this season and will compete better than most teams too. At the game on Sat'dy, Stoke never once gave up on their lead, Liverpool had something like 80% possession in the second half, most teams would have buckled under that kind of pressure! Who's to say that playing to your strengths and building a team progressively is such a bad thing??
Theres too many arm chair fans/glory supporters who know nothing about what exists outside of the Premier league. You can not say that a club doesn't deserve to be in the Premier league just because its not up to the standard of the Top 4.

As a life long fan I spent two decades watching a lot of crap football at Stoke, thinking I'd missed the best era of our club and that I'd never get to witness anything like it again. Then Coates and Pulis came back for their second stint. Since then we have stabilised our club, got in the Prem, got to an F.A Cup Final, made it to the Europa League. In 4 Years! We have so far sustained our status in an honest and modest fashion and we will get to the top when we are ready thank you!

Not matter what you plums think about our beautiful club, you will take away our pride and our passion, something a lot of Premier league clubs will never ever rival.

GOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAARRRRNNN STOKE!!!

We'll be with you every step along the way.x

44 I Agree with you, which is why I think Stoke could make a Europa League spot this season.

Stoke have conceded only 1 goal in the league this season (off the top of my head) and it doesn't take a genius to work out why:

-----------------------Begovic---------------------
Huth----------Shawcross--------Woodgate----------Wilson

I challenge anybody to find a better back five in the league, obviously not including the top three teams.

Also, they have two quality wingers, and a few options upfront, with Crouch, Jones, and especially Walters, who I really rate!
The thing they're missing from competing for a top 4 spot (yes I said it) is a truley quality centre mid, like a Gerrard.

I can honestly say that I think Stoke City play some appalling football and as one person has already proclaimed that he doesn't really watch them(Stoke) because they are boring, I concur fully with that statement and also add: Stoke has obviously improved, you have to, to remain in the Premiership!

However, post 13 states:
"What precisely are these unique English qualities?

Dreadful technique?
Witless clogging?
A complete inability to maintain possession?

Stoke City typify everything that is wrong with English football and are the complete antithesis of the beautiful game."

To add once again: what or how is Stoke contributing to the game in England by playing the way they do? They have reversed the clock back to a horrible time for English football, which nobody remembers for good reason!

Today, the best teams play a variation of the Dutch "Totaal Voetbal", which is obviously better than anything the English have come up with, well, since the invention of the sport. Total football is art, organised and is proven to win if applied properly by talented coaches and intelligent players. So I don't understand criticism of Wengerball, because despite it not having won anything in 6 years, at least it is a progressive style!

I would just like to see how the European referees will deal with the "crunching" tackles from TP's men, that progressive football teams in the Barclays Premiership have to deal with on a weekly basis! My guess is Stoke is going to have to tone down the "ugly" into "Wengerball" then maybe people can start applauding them.

Post 34: Managers, yes, not fans(they pay for all of it)

Another says(Post 34) that entertainment is a distant second to winning, no that is not case. Barcelona fans go the game with no idea of what the final score will be at the end of the day, yes it will be nice to see a victory, but fans generally go to the game to be entertained, to watch two sides duel(in the duel is the entertainment) for the spoils(winning - I even did it chronologically for you to see how it works).

Stoke is like a neanderthal that has been transported to the future.
It will only survive by adapting quickly to the rules of the time.

Post 30:
"My personal view is there are a lot of teams that are bitter against Stoke because in the past we have not played the pretty football that everyone wants us to play."

Stoke don't have to play pretty football to achieve and make Europe every season, Liverpool proved that Pre and Post Benitez, Liverpool just don't kick and/or break legs while they are at it, you're making the same mistake of confusing efficiency with thuggery!

@#32 and others of a similar opinion

"With all due respect, this is absolute rubbish. Stoke have not changed their style in the slightest. When was the last time they had a playmaker or someone with real flair? They are a team so reliant on balls being lobbed into the box via Delap or either wing, they've forgotten how to score a good goal. Can anyone remember the last time they did?"

Anyone who really believes this should perhaps watch the entire game where Stoke thrashed Bolton 5-0 in the FA cup semifinal last season.

some of the comments on here are hilarious, this is my personal favourite:

18.
At 21:27 14th Sep 2011, mickysausage wrote:

What Stoke have put Arsene Wenger through over the last few years is a total disgrace! Pulis as brought nothing but shame on stoke and premiership football! Constant managers complaining about there tactics and foul play!

Thats obviously the same Arsene Wenger whose team has 3 red cards and a ban for stamping in 3 matches! What a credit to English football and as for the great white hope Wilshere, what a great job Wenger has done there! I thought Wenger changed the drinking culture in England? Apart from the FA Cup run the highlight of my season was beating the bitter French loser by committing the fewer fouls and playing the better football 'the right way' and shoving his pathetic 'rugby' jibes back in his wrinkled face.

What we have put Arsene Wenger through! that is the funniest thing i will ever read, i'm going to print this, cut it out and frame it!

Its great that people who actually understand football are recognising the fantastic job Pulis and Coates are doing and it makes it all the more sweeter if we can still upset Liverpool fans from Ireland, Surrey and everywhere but Liverpool and especially the silent, middle classes of Hampstead and Notting Hill who go to Arsenal for the comfy seats and buffet lunch.

Keep hating us from your armchairs guys, we are here to stay.

BTW all 5 goals were scored from open play and not one Stoke player was booked.

47.
At 01:52 15th Sep 2011, vettelmettle wrote:

I can honestly say that I think Stoke City play some appalling football and as one person has already proclaimed that he doesn't really watch them(Stoke) because they are boring, I concur fully with that statement and also add: Stoke has obviously improved, you have to, to remain in the Premiership!

However, post 13 states:
"What precisely are these unique English qualities?

Dreadful technique?
Witless clogging?
A complete inability to maintain possession?

Stoke City typify everything that is wrong with English football and are the complete antithesis of the beautiful game."

To add once again: what or how is Stoke contributing to the game in England by playing the way they do? They have reversed the clock back to a horrible time for English football, which nobody remembers for good reason!

Today, the best teams play a variation of the Dutch "Totaal Voetbal", which is obviously better than anything the English have come up with, well, since the invention of the sport. Total football is art, organised and is proven to win if applied properly by talented coaches and intelligent players. So I don't understand criticism of Wengerball, because despite it not having won anything in 6 years, at least it is a progressive style!

I would just like to see how the European referees will deal with the "crunching" tackles from TP's men, that progressive football teams in the Barclays Premiership have to deal with on a weekly basis! My guess is Stoke is going to have to tone down the "ugly" into "Wengerball" then maybe people can start applauding them.

Post 34: Managers, yes, not fans(they pay for all of it)

Another says(Post 34) that entertainment is a distant second to winning, no that is not case. Barcelona fans go the game with no idea of what the final score will be at the end of the day, yes it will be nice to see a victory, but fans generally go to the game to be entertained, to watch two sides duel(in the duel is the entertainment) for the spoils(winning - I even did it chronologically for you to see how it works).

Stoke is like a neanderthal that has been transported to the future.
It will only survive by adapting quickly to the rules of the time.

Post 30:
"My personal view is there are a lot of teams that are bitter against Stoke because in the past we have not played the pretty football that everyone wants us to play."

Stoke don't have to play pretty football to achieve and make Europe every season, Liverpool proved that Pre and Post Benitez, Liverpool just don't kick and/or break legs while they are at it, you're making the same mistake of confusing efficiency with thuggery!

.............................................................................................................


what a bitter little man you are, an Arsenal fan from SOUTH AFRICA! according to your profile, says it all really. Go and stick your vuvenzela where the sun doesnt shine

#32 To quote:

"They are a team so reliant on balls being lobbed into the box via Delap or either wing, they've forgotten how to score a good goal. Can anyone remember the last time they did?"

For your information, those balls being lobbed into the box from either wing are called crosses, and I think you'll find that's pretty standard footballing terminology and a method that most teams employ.

Can't help but note that you're a West Ham fan and have noted you'd be quite happy sitting mid-table in the Prem playing pretty football. I'm sure you would, considering you got relegated last season and are in the Championship.

Don't jump on the latest bandwagon to roll by and mock or abuse Stoke because you've heard they play bad football and are overly aggressive.

They can play decent football and as the writer of this blog duly notes have steadily improved their team season on season. Their defence is something to be admired and envied by most managers.

Pulis is a genius who has worked wonders with limited resources and appears to be not just "hanging in there," but slowly making real and lasting improvements.

Nobody would have thought that possible when Stoke first won promotion. I think he's done a fantastic job and deserves enormous credit and I hope he continues to have success with them - the proverbial breath of fresh air. And by the way, I am a Liverpool fan and yes we were robbed but that alters nothing about Pulis and his achievement.

Loving all the hate aimed at Stoke. How sad that supporters of the supposed elite feel so helpless versus a squad that probably costs 1/10th of their respective squads.

I agree 100% with the blog, Stoke is an asset to the Premiership and I expect them to continue improving (as long as the financial support is there, goes without saying).

When someone says Stoke, the first thing that comes to mind aren't throw-ins but tactical discipline. Something that is lacking in many "big" clubs.

@ 1

The LFC jinx will surely strike Stoke! Remember 3 seasons ago there was Reading, they beat LFC and then went down. Last season a team called Blackpool had the audacity to so the double on LFC, again they went down! Stoke fans should be very afraid!

I think TP is doing a wonderful job. If yo have a player who can take throw ins like a free kick, why not use that to your advantage? If you have a height advantage compared to other teams why not use it?

That said, I personally don't like the way they play. It's a bit boring to watch as a neutral (I'm a Chelsea supporter). But if it does the job for them, who are we to complain? What other teams should try to do is to find a way to beat their tough defense (we couldn't do that this time too :-( ), rather than trying to change their style.

I should also point out that they were a bit lucky with penalty decisions this season so far (vs Chelsea, vs Liverpool). But I think they deserve all the praise they are getting at the moment. I don't know what TP does to motivate and fire up the players for every game but it certainly is working.

Good luck for the rest of the season TP and Stoke (except for the game played at the Bridge of course).

What bitter fans don't realise is that Stoke are a Modric-like and a VDV-like players away from becoming a stylish team with exciting football that uses the width of the pitch, have solid defense and real threat in attack. Who knows? It might be next in the agenda for Tony Pulis.

You don't need to say anything really to justify the great work Pulis is doing at Stoke. At the end of last season, just before the F.A. Cup semi final, all tabloids were praising Owen Coyle and his work at Bolton. Just, when the day came, they were on the receiving end of a demolition job. Ambitious Premiership sides do not like going to Britannia. Early into the new season it is Liverpool fans with digestion problems on that 1-0 are a prime example of why there are so many haters of Stoke. They can moan as much as they like but Carragher missed only permanent UHU while trying to stop Walters. And enough said already.

Stoke are an example to follow for many reasons. For me, top of this list is that they're a club that invests the Premiership cash and don't just milk the TV allocation cash like the majority of Premiership clubs, the chairmen of which so frequently refer to their club not being in the red, like it's such a great task to achieve when you have secured so much money, with no intention to invest it.

When the end of the season comes, Stoke will still be debt-free, after having spent £22m on players. One more reason to be hated perhaps, this time by chairmen. It could be a wake-up call for many fans from many clubs. A good example is Arsenal. Wenger thought £6m was more than enough for Bolton's Cahil. Yet, he paid more for the kid from Southampton, while Cahil is an England international, solid, quality defender of the kind the Arsenal defense are crying for.

I wouldn't be surprised if Stoke acquire creative midfielders for next season. It's the only thing missing from their team, to make them utilise better the wingers and provide extra ammunition for the strikers. Already using the wingers pretty well, with quality defense and a no-nonsense goalkeeper, they're expanding on sqwad quality and they're on the way to becoming a force in the Premiership.

Was it last week that poor, old Stoke won in Europa Cup on the away tie? It sums it up, I suppose. This club, besides whatever bitter fans from various clubs say, is already going ways other clubs dream of going.

@ 55.At 07:00 15th Sep 2011, red lion,

Yeah, right.
Stoke will go down this season as much as Liverpool will win the Champions League. Or, to make it hurt more, as much as Liverpool will win the Premiership :)

#55

A lot of teams beat Liverpool last season if I recall - they didn't all go down.
In fact more and more teams seem to beat Liverpool these days :-)

#1 cheeseisthedevilswork

A stinker of a comment to KO of the thread.

Stoke to go down?! No chance, not with the quality reinforcements they have added to an already established Premiership squad. Mid table finish absolute minimum. However, in my book they should out gun the likes of Sunderland who have similarly spent big for a potential top 7 finish.

In response to #13 and the comment "Next time you watch a game at the Britannia Stadium, note how small the pitch is - a tactic aimed at denying space to teams that have the temerity to play proper football."

I think you'll find this a bit of an illusion this season.

Last season it may have been true that Stoke's pitch was the smallest in the EPL at 100m by 64m (incidentally the minimum dimensions permissable) but this season it should be one of the biggest. For UEFA Club Competitions the pitch must measure 105 metres in length by 68 metres in breadth exactly. Those dimensions would make the Stoke pitch significantly larger than Anfield (101m by 68m). There are construction-related exceptions but I don't recall those being applicable at the Britannia (they certainly do at Anfield but that's not a worry for them this season). Clubs must declare their pitch size to the EPL and are not permitted to change it during the season. It'll be worth digging around a bit more for this season's dimensions for proof either way.

I guess to most people Stoke City are like Marmite but as I support a Championship club it doesn't matter to me right now!

I think the Liverpool fans are bitter because there is a bit of doubt growing in the back of their minds that the Kenny Dalglish revival is not as great as many in the media are making out, and teams like Stoke can only prosper from that.

Arsenal similar, with what is happening with their club and the lack of leaders and winners that they now have, they see Stoke who are committed and passionate and resent the fact that they are missing that.

I'm not saying I completely agree with the way Stoke do things but there is a more traditional Englishness about it than the teams full of tippy tapping half rate imports.

#32 What is a "good goal"? Does it count more than a "bad goal" or a "fair to middling goal"?

Can we have a panel of judges to give artistic and technical merit scores on the goals to give a better idea on how "good" they are? Or maybe a phone vote by the viewers and we can have results show broadcast on Sky TV every Sunday night to find out what the Final Scores are for the weekends EPL games (BBC can have a highlights package and ESPN will broadcast one a month on TV and every week on a handheld device). That'll boost the ratings no end. I suggest Brucie or Ant and Dec, or Lovejoy and Jedward depending on how highbrow you want to make the show. Even better, for the Hello crowd, Cheryl Cole and Christine Bleakley - don't they know a thing or two about football?

A goal is a goal. Good, bad or indifferent doesn't come into it.

People can moan about Stoke's style of play as much as they want. However, if a team cant beat Stoke then it is there own fault for not finding a way to beat this 'inferior' type of football. Alex Ferguson and Man United are the best example of this; they have beat Stoke every time in the three seasons we've been in the Premiership (albeit G Nev should have been sent off in the last!).

Also, there are TWO sides to football, defence and attack (duh!?). We just happen to be excellent defensively, which is more than can be said for other top six sides such as arsenal, spuds and liverpool.

Give Stoke some credit.

Delap is fantastic in the line outs, and their scrum is one of the strongest in the world. Shawcross makes bone crushing challenges, and the Stoke kicking game is very successful.

You only have to look at how many players are carried off injured against Stoke to realise just how successful their tactics are.

Roared on by enthusiastic fans (most of whom have tied up their own shoe laces), they are a credit to English rugby.

So many haters on here who are either very young, very stupid or just aren't very knowledgable about the game. I am embarrassed for all the decent Liverpool and Arsenal fans who are being made to luck stupid by some of the comments on here.

Why oh why do people believe Stoke don't play the 'right' way. Football is about putting balls in the back of the net, if they play a certain way then so what it's still a certain tactic thatg teams have to deal with.

Here's something to really annoy a few people i would rather watch Stoke V Swansea than Barcelona V (Anyone but Madrid) as Barca games are so dull. Pass, pass, pass, pass, pass goal. Give me end to end excitement every day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Number 65. May I direct you to the fair play league for this season...

https://soccernet.espn.go.com/stats/fairplay/_/league/eng.1/barclays-premier-league?cc=5739

"how many players are carried off/injured"

i challenge you to name a few. apart from obviously ramsey, which was a very unfortunate event!

65.
At 09:30 15th Sep 2011, JamTay1 wrote:

Give Stoke some credit.

Delap is fantastic in the line outs, and their scrum is one of the strongest in the world. Shawcross makes bone crushing challenges, and the Stoke kicking game is very successful.

You only have to look at how many players are carried off injured against Stoke to realise just how successful their tactics are.

Roared on by enthusiastic fans (most of whom have tied up their own shoe laces), they are a credit to English rugby.

................................................................................

how many players are carried off injured? Go on, name them..........

take your time, im sure its going to take you hours to write them all down


It may only be 4 games into the season but the fair play league table makes interesting reading:

1st place - Swansea, 2nd place - dirty, anti football, going out to deliberately injure players Stoke City.


20th - the footballing purists of Arsenal


Its a shame the truth always gets in the way of opinions isnt it?

Stoke are a hard team to play against, ask any other supporters and a trip to the Brittania isnt met with glee. For that they must be commended (players and especially manager) because on paper they have a mediocre squad at best. I respect Stoke for the way they make it hard and grind out a lot of results, but to then add superlatives about how they have got away from the "delap throw" and physicality and play a "better brand of football than people give them credit for" is rubbish! They are tough, mean, physical side and it gets them results. Bottom line. They work with the players they've got (im sure they would love the likes of Aguero, Silva etc over there) and they make the most of it.....are we going to pass the ball around united, city, chelsea, arsenal, liverpool etc etc today lads?? Of course were not! First game of the season against Chelsea, at home, they played 5 at the back!! Not fitting the "plaudits for artistic merit " is it??

Also I believe we scored 2 or 3 goals off a Delap throw in the premier league last season. hardly a rain-in.

Fabregas, Ramsey, Walcott, Adebayor, Sagna. All been injured against Stoke in the last few years. These are just Arsenal players alone!

Ryan Shawcross has on his own list of accomplishments Ramsey, Jeffers, Adebayor. Plus he also broke the leg of a player previously (In fairness before he was at Stoke) when playing for Royal Antwerp.

The problem with the fair play table is a yellow card for kicking the ball away, or over celebrating counts as much as a yellow card for dirty play. Because of this you can't accurately measure teams 'dirty play' this way.

As a Port Vale fan I have no axe to grind ... but Stoke City have surprised many of us in the other half of the Six Towns by refining the rough edges of their initial style and signing Palacios, Jerome, Crouch, Woodgate and more. Slowly and surely they are improving their game. After relatively easy wins in the Europa Cup over Split and FC Thun, perhaps tonight's away game at Dynamo Kyiv will be the acid test, while Besiktas and Maccabi Tel Aviv will not be easy neither. As for Liverpool fans complaining about dodgy penalties ... words fail me!

Arsenal fans must be so glad to finally have a discussion which isn't about either

1. Their trophy drought
2. Their dreadful start to the season
3. Their dreadful defence and goalkeeper
4. Theo Walcott
5. Anything to do with Wenger being brilliant or terrible
6. Transfer policy

They can just go hell for leather about how Stoke have ruined their lives or something along those lines

@cheeseisthedevilswork

Stoke will go down this season. On Saturday they scored through a very dodgy pen, two stonewall penalties for Liverpool were turned down and sitter after sitter was missed by Suarez, Henderson etc.


----

Zzzzzzzzzzzzz

Whatever.

Stoke are a decent team who deserve their place in the PL.

Shame Liverpool Losers can't accept that.

Very good article by Steve Wilson - and some well-considered comments from some Liverpool fans - and even from a Vale supporter! - real sportsmen all. Thank you.
But the vitriol still flows with some who should confine their crude comments to their home terraces.
I don't think many football fans have much sympathy for Arsene Wenger's rants. And considered opinion was that Ramsey would have broken his leg even if Shawcross had not made contact.
Anyway, I'm glad plenty of so-called fans are writing us off again - we thrive on it - and it stops us becoming complacent. I can't get to the Brit often but I did see them beat Split and thrash Thun in the Europa qualifiers. The tough stuff really starts tonight in Kiev. Go for it Tony and the boys. Up the Potters - from a supporter who remembers watching two Stoke players who were among the greatest ever to play for England: Stan Matthews and Neil Franklin.

This is a genuine question to Stoke fans, not just a rant!!

With Stoke now a firm premiership side, are you happy with their summer signings? It seems to me that Stoke are continuing to buy hardmen with more physicality than ability, wilson palacious as an example. Would you have rather seen Stoke buy a playmaker, someone like Nico Krancjar for example?

For me Stoke have done a good job in the premiership, when they first came up they did not nievely try to play with flair and nieveity, but instead did what they could to stay in the league. But now with Stoke an established premier league side and in the Europa league, would the Stoke fans not prefer to see a slow movement to becoming a balanced team, not just a team of 6ft4 hoofers? The signing of crouch was basically for the long throw of Delap, which works, but is the least interesting way of scoring I can think of. Delap, without his throw, would be a championship player at best!

Do Stoke fans want to see the way they play change over time, and with the money that they can now invest, that caould happen. Yes Etherington and Pennant both have flair, but they can just beat their men and whip in a cross. What about a central midfield playmaker or a striker that drops deep and then takes on the defenders?

I think what has happened at Stoke City is a great example of how you can succeed by managing a club within its means, playing to your strengths and sticking to your principals.

I think the current Stoke City side, although shares many qualities with the team that first played in the Premier League a few years ago, is now a different beast. I think it is lazy for Stoke to be continually tagged as a team of hoofers, reliant on Delap throw-ins, brutal in their tackles etc. The reality is that Stoke City possess a lot of traits that many other supporters would like to see shown a little more often by their own team; that is passion, enthusiasm, endeavour, perseverance and stubbornness. However, alongside these attributes, it is often overlooked that Stoke can actually play football too.

I think Pulis has built a side on a Seventies English model; that is one that fights 'tooth and nail' and never knows when it is beaten. One that is reliant on wingers and strong forwards and one that puts a lot of practice into ensuring you get the simple things right (set pieces for instance).

Stoke are a decent side and not enough people give them the credit they deserve. I applaud what has happened there and enjoy the prospect of them playing those sides with greater aspirations, as you know that a Tony Pulis side isn't going to roll over and let the 'bigger' team win.

I hope Stoke continue to succeed and look forward to their foray into Europe this season; I only hope that it doesn't prove to be detrimental to their domestic form.

https://thethoughtsofphil.wordpress.com/

I see the 'I believe football began with the advent of the Champions League' Brigade are out in force again, otherwise known as 'I use the abbreviation EPL on football messageboards' Group....
The negativity is astonishing on here. Pulis has refined and improved the team, year on year whilst many peer clubs struggle to keep their heads above water. Yes, they have a stinker every once in a while but its an oft-repeated phrase that the best teams grind out results when not playing especially well.

The truth of the matter is that Arsenal, Liverpool et al would have all of the 'lower' teams playing like West Brom did under Moanbray - just so they can roll them over time and again.

1.
At 09:53 15th Sep 2011, JamTay1 wrote:

Fabregas, Ramsey, Walcott, Adebayor, Sagna. All been injured against Stoke in the last few years. These are just Arsenal players alone!

Ryan Shawcross has on his own list of accomplishments Ramsey, Jeffers, Adebayor. Plus he also broke the leg of a player previously (In fairness before he was at Stoke) when playing for Royal Antwerp.

The problem with the fair play table is a yellow card for kicking the ball away, or over celebrating counts as much as a yellow card for dirty play. Because of this you can't accurately measure teams 'dirty play' this way.

......................................................................................................

this is incredible, even for an Arsenal fan this guy takes the biscuit. If you want to look at another indicator of dirty play, Arsenal committed the 11th highest number of fouls last season, Stoke committed the 12th highest.

Out of those players you mentioned (all Arsenal?) only Ramsey was stretchered off, for the others werent, you are having to go back a few years there arent you? How about last season, there was the wild, two footed lunge on Zigic, the studs scraped down the shins of Ward, the studs up 'challenge' on Pennant's knee. Oh sorry they were all Arsenal players.

Arsenal fans are obsessed and rightly so, little Stoke will over take them this season, even the usual Arsenal apologists on the Sunday Supplement said so last week.


To answer a serious poster; OUFCbackintheprem: the team has been slowly developing and so has the style of play, i would expect this to continue. Pulis is in the rare position of knowing he has time to develop a team, most managers new to the premier league know they will either get sacked or if they do well will move to a bigger club.

Stoke do have a striker who drops deep in Walters, a creative midfielder would be nice and probably will come at some point, Stoke did make a (unrealistic) bid for Scott Parker. Delap may of had his day but you carnt call him a championship player as hes spent over 10 years in the premier league with 4 different clubs.

The criticism of Stoke City from some quarters is unfair.

Every year, the EPL is roughly decided by which club has the highest turnover/richest owner. At the very top, you've got rich, highly marketable clubs with large fanbases (Manchester United, Liverpool, Arsenal ) and other clubs who have hit the jackpot and become an acquisition for a multi-billionaire ( Chelsea, Manchester City ). Then the mid-table is full of clubs who have a reasonably wealthy owner, but an going to pull-up any trees ( Aston Villa, Sunderland, Fulham, QPR, Newcastle. etc. ).

For a club like Stoke, who haven't got any large-scale external investment or much marketability, then to avoid consistently being relegation-fodder a return to the Championship, they had to try something different - and, so far, it has worked.

If anything, people should be applauding Stoke for achieving the status of a solid, mid-table Premier League team through footballing means, rather than financial.

@13, decent point about pitch size - I cited the very same thing as a Hammers fan as one of the reasons why we struggle at home so much. Stoke & back then, West Ham had the smallest pitches in the Premier League - for Stoke I can see how that was a positive tactically, but for the Hammers, a club with traditions of playing the "beautiful game" it was a big negative as since players/the game have become stronger/faster in recent decades our style needed more space. Interested to see how we fare in the Olympic stadium - pitch size should be good, shame about the crowd seating arrangements!

Do I like Stoke's approach? Not really, but I would congratulate Tony Pulis on his achievement of keeping them away from relegation - that can't be denied. Surely everyone must recognise that some managers have to work within much tighter parameters than others. Pulis has used the pitch size, Delap's unique trick and powerfully built players to get Stoke this far, but when he's starting to bring in people like Etherington & Pennant I don't think you can accuse him of not wanting to play better looking football, but unlike the big clubs he can't just go and splash hundreds of millions on new players. Besides, who really wants to watch Arsenal vs Arsenal, or Barcelona vs Barcelona? Variety is the spice of life, the fact that a team like Barnsley can beat Liverpool and Chelsea in the FA Cup is what makes the game what it is - they sure as hell didn't do it playing like Brazil!

Not sure of any more recent studies, but here's the 2009/2010 pitch size comparison:
https://www.funny-football.co.uk/news/premier-league-pitch-dimensions-2009-2010/

but *aren't going to pull-up any trees

to avoid consistently being relegation-fodder, *and a return to the Championship

TBH i feel the majority of comments on here have been seriously disrespectful to the work that Tony Pulis and Peter Coates have done at Stoke. In Coates they have a chairman that is willing to back his manager and give him the time and space to do his job and in Pulis they got a manager that is realistic enough to know that to start with he didn't have a squad that could match the more seasoned premiership teams so worked to their strengths and fair play to him it worked. I would rather watch a Stoke match than a Liverpool match any day of the week Liverpool are boring and commentators and analysts suck upto them to much. I feel the ref made right decision on all 3 penalty decisions last week and if Liverpool could have actually scored from any of the countless clearcut opportunities they wouldnt need to moan about penalty decisions going against them. As for Stoke being a dirty team no they are a physical team and last time I checked football was still a contact sport if Arsene Whinger dont like his boys being hurt then maybe he should either buy men or take up Basketball coaching where it is a non-contact sport

How DARE an unfashionable team have the temerity to do well!!!

I don't really have a favourite English team, as I am depressed enough at being a Scottish football fan, but it seems to me that Stoke in general, and Pulis in particular, have been breaths of fresh air in a time of corporate minded, overpaid, over worshipped prima donnas who play and manage in the English Premiership.

Others have come in a temporary blaze of glory (Phil Brown, Roy Keane....) but Pulis has outlasted them all and stayed true to his principles.

It's nice to see someone who doesn't consistently gripe, whine, moan, look for injustice and is TRULY respectful to the opposition.

Good luck to Stoke and Mr. Pulis, I say. The are evidence that it is not ALL about the biggest corporate machine, and that fans count too...

Complain about this comment (Comment number 78)
Comment number 79.At 11:04 15th Sep 2011, fat_mick wrote:
1.
At 09:53 15th Sep 2011, JamTay1 wrote:

Fabregas, Ramsey, Walcott, Adebayor, Sagna. All been injured against Stoke in the last few years. These are just Arsenal players alone!

Ryan Shawcross has on his own list of accomplishments Ramsey, Jeffers, Adebayor. Plus he also broke the leg of a player previously (In fairness before he was at Stoke) when playing for Royal Antwerp.

The problem with the fair play table is a yellow card for kicking the ball away, or over celebrating counts as much as a yellow card for dirty play. Because of this you can't accurately measure teams 'dirty play' this way.

......................................................................................................

this is incredible, even for an Arsenal fan this guy takes the biscuit. If you want to look at another indicator of dirty play, Arsenal committed the 11th highest number of fouls last season, Stoke committed the 12th highest.

Out of those players you mentioned (all Arsenal?) only Ramsey was stretchered off, for the others werent, you are having to go back a few years there arent you? How about last season, there was the wild, two footed lunge on Zigic, the studs scraped down the shins of Ward, the studs up 'challenge' on Pennant's knee. Oh sorry they were all Arsenal players.

Arsenal fans are obsessed and rightly so, little Stoke will over take them this season, even the usual Arsenal apologists on the Sunday Supplement said so last week.


To answer a serious poster; OUFCbackintheprem: the team has been slowly developing and so has the style of play, i would expect this to continue. Pulis is in the rare position of knowing he has time to develop a team, most managers new to the premier league know they will either get sacked or if they do well will move to a bigger club.

Stoke do have a striker who drops deep in Walters, a creative midfielder would be nice and probably will come at some point, Stoke did make a (unrealistic) bid for Scott Parker. Delap may of had his day but you carnt call him a championship player as hes spent over 10 years in the premier league with 4 different clubs.
......................................................................................................

Erm I'm a Liverpool fan not an Arsenal fan!

The 'style' of Stoke's play has not changed one bit. It relies on brutality, long balls, long throws and set pieces. If you seriously think that Stoke will overtake%2

It's ugly football but it works for Stoke, not something I would personally pay money to watch. I do think they have a few good players such as Walters and Etherington but I still feel it will be mid table again for Stoke, which is quite an achievement in the prem.

85.
At 11:32 15th Sep 2011, JamTay1 wrote:


Erm I'm a Liverpool fan not an Arsenal fan!




oh dear

Liverfools, you guys are going to be 10th or 11th by end of season. You have paid tooo much on fringe players, they are not going to get you any honors, or champs league place. I can see Stoke finishing above you by end of season.

I'm not a Stoke fan, nor infact a fan of any Premiership team.

Stoke have improved over the years in both style and content. Tony Pulis has done a very good job firstly keeping the side in the Premiership and secondly developing them into a team that can 'play'. Reading some of these threads you'd think we were looking at a modern version of the old Wimbledon 'Crazey Gang' and we're not, far from it.

Whether your a fan of Stoke or not the jist of this Blog was that Stoke have improved and that Tony Pulis has improved the team since they've been in the Premiership....... I can't find anything to disagree with in that.

haha, you're a funny guy knockoff, nice too see a manc can contribute sensibly to an article...NOT!
Is it teacher training day or have you bunked off again, silly knock off.

Irrespective of the Liverpool game, doesn't anyone see that Stoke epitomise everything that is and has always been wrong with English Football? Kick and Rush, skill to be frowned on as a foreign vice, Victorian values of physical exercise to suppress sexual thoughts and actions (Pulis anyone? The ultimate asexual being), an aversion to passing as cowardice (Bergovic is often the Stoke player with highest pass accuracy and volume) The list goes on, please spare us this misery. Here is a thought - maybe if we learned something from beyond these isles, we'd win something at National Level.

There's no doubt Stoke continue to improve slightly each year and I would expect them to finish a place or two higher than last season.
At what point do the likes of Pulis, Bruce, Moyes and Coyle quit their respective clubs before mid table is the best achievement they can do or they become stale?

jamminben - i think you need to read the comments above. Teams like Liverpool and Arsenal play amazing football and never foul or injure players (according to their plastic fans) and they contribute players to the national team. So how is it Stoke's fault?

Well Reinasbaldhead, that's a good question and a reasonable point... So, could any of the 'Big' managers do a better job at Soke, Sunderland, Bolton or Everton. With the same budgets and the same lack of glamorous club profile to attract the cream of world football would Ferguson, Venger, Mancini, Dalglish etc take them any further?

As a Stoke fan, I really enjoyed reading this article...then I read the comments afterwards.

Were any of you Liverpool fans at the game or are you going by the MOTD highlights? Liverpool had so many other decisions go their way that the highlights failed to show. They were never "stonewall" penalties and the fact that you are complaining because you could not equalise in open play is hilarious. As for ours, Carragher had his arm wrapped around Walters, which prevented him from turning...so definitely should have been given.

Don't get me wrong, I thought Liverpool were by far the better team and Suarez looked dangerous every time he got the ball.

Looking forward to the game at Anfield :)

@94 - With the same budgets I doubt the other names mentioned would achieve much more, maybe a top 6-7 finish for a few but it is a big maybe.
As a manager would the thoughts of 'i need a new challenge or something bigger' go through their minds after a 5-6 year string of mid table placings? Not many take the plunge and the likes of Allardyce and Curbishley did take a huge gamblee which for them backfired, I bet wish they stayed where they were in hindsight.

@96... The chances of a successful 'mid-table manager' getting a chance to manage a consistent top 5-6 Premiership team are pretty slim. You need to be a foreign import now to do that. If you take the jump and fail you can either have a bash at a far eastern national side of cross your fingers and wait for one of the half-dozen Champonship jobs that come up each season and start all over again... *sigh*

The problem here is that the style in which Stoke play "works for them"...they have personnel and a manager that has highlighted their strengths, and they play to them. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I for one think it provides good competetion and, ive seen mentioned it previous posts, they are the anti "prima donna, posturing" style favoured by certain other players and clubs (mentioning no names) which i think is great. My only gripe, and it isnt intended as a pop at the team, is commentators and fans and whoever insist on that Stoke are becoming a footballing side and try and play a bit.....from what i can gather ive seen no evidence towards this. You wanna talk about a side with limited resources and no "superstar" players trying to play football in the prem league? Take one look at Blackpool.....scored goals but (unfortunately for them) let in loads, really tried to stick to a plan of passing attacking football, but ultimately paid the price for it. Whereas Stoke realise if they take a gung ho approach, they might find themselves in a similar situation, hence going back to my original point, they know their strengths (tough defensively, wont give you an inch, solid midfield, work the set pieces, get it up to Jones, and now crouch) and it works! A Maverick attacking team to suit the "purists" that will get relegated? or a tough spiky team who keep it tight and will almost definately avoid relegation by a stretch and make a 5th season in the prem?? i know what the fans will prefer, but to the opposition supporters, they will probably continue to stick in the throat

Excellent blog, well written and Stoke, Coates and Pulis in particular, really deserve the recognition they are finally getting. Progressing within their means year on year and a Europa place this year should be achievable. May well overtake Spurs this year with Palacios and Crouch keen to prove a point. From a Manu fan.....

@97 - Youv'e hit the nail on the head, none off them are given a real chance. The only one given a chance has been Redknapp and he seems to be doing a very good job. Moyes is a manager who deserves a crack at something big or at least a club with money to spend.