Tuesday 22 November 2011

https://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100119087/uh-oh-global-warming-loons-here-comes-climategate-ii/

https://opinion.financialpost.com/2011/11/21/terence-corcoran-cooler-science/

https://www.bishop-hill.net/unthreaded/

the latest joke from the fair pay commission///it's OK for bosses to get a 49% increase put heaven help you if you threaten strike action if you try to get by on a 2% increase which means you have had a wage cut for the last four years, so try and defend that one.....if you can.....

"But it will be very difficult to make the MWP go away in Greenland.
Rahmstorf:

You chose to depict the one based on C14 solar data, which kind of stands out
in Medieval times. It would be much nicer to show the version driven by Be10
solar forcing
Cook:

A growing body of evidence clearly shows [2008] that hydroclimatic variability
during the putative MWP (more appropriately and inclusively called the
“Medieval Climate Anomaly” or MCA period) was more regionally extreme (mainly
in terms of the frequency and duration of megadroughts) than anything we have
seen in the 20th century, except perhaps for the Sahel. So in certain ways the
MCA period may have been more climatically extreme than in modern times.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/boe.con/

I will be interested to see if Susan Watts finaly starts to change her tune following this latest escape of greenhouse truth.

Such is the extent of selective reasoning and data aquisition I can barely contemplate the galactic scale of the deception.

We need sustainable energy sources and use of resources in general.. not to mention population control.

There are far better reasons to do that than hitching it to a branch of science which consistently denies the activity of the sun has anything to do with climate change. Utlimately when it is exposed it will be counter productive and set back sustainability as a guiding approach decades.

Maybe that is the whole point of it I wonder sometimes, a bit like the approach taken to sustainable schemes like tidal barrages, often rejected on easily cooked up and hard to disprove ecological grounds.... getting the result you want by dressing it up to look like the right thing, when really it merely allows unsustainable money generating (as oppose to value generating) schemes to continue with impunity.

[2007] What if climate change appears to be just mainly a multidecadal natural
fluctuation? They’ll kill us probably [...]
Wilson:

Although I agree that GHGs are important in the 19th/20th century (especially
since the 1970s), if the weighting of solar forcing was stronger in the models,
surely this would diminish the significance of GHGs.
[...] it seems to me that by weighting the solar irradiance more strongly in the
models, then much of the 19th to mid 20th century warming can be explained from
the sun alone.

"Politicians have promised change, but is anything likely to be done? "

Not without a Khmer Rouge style revolution with the entire Private Sector being nationalised, and prices and incomes policies coming back.
Who'd regulate?

One may as well ask if the Chinese are going buy out of Britain whilst the USA via Goldman-Sachs buys out Europe.

On the Khmer Rouge and their general nastiness, not everyone agrees that they were quite as bad as alleged - although not many will say much about that given they were communists and allegedly very bad for business.

Having said that, communist Vietnam is now deemed a favoured nation for trading purposes by the USA.......

https://www.mekong.net/cambodia/chomsky.htm

Regulation - it's bad for some people's business.

Who are the bad guys

Note at the end of Newsnight last night, at the end of a week when there was an article in the Independent about Goldman-Sachs placing staff in critical places across the EU, we get some questions put to an author who's written a book about anti-Semitism focusing on Prague - just in case anyone was having any critical thoughts or flashes of deja vu.

It's just how it's done - i.e. sustaining Libertarianism via guilt - but even saying that is probably saying too much? As the alternative would mean regime change.

I can't help speculating that the leading eco-fascists in the BBC management are at this time sat round a table in a room contemplating the most efficient warmist spin they can force Susan Watts to trot out parrot fashion on tonight's programme. The warmist Guardian have already put out their debunk story, I just wonder how much of it the BBC will copy ?

When you are talking about excessive executive pay then you have to be really careful that you don't actually hit those who genuinely create and maintain well paying jobs throughout our economy. Perhaps the easiest way is to have a maximum wage ( say 100k ) unless that you can prove that you are directly employing people and then for each person employed full time be granted a " Tax Credit " of 2.5k for each employee. Of course people in the multinationals would have to thrash it out amongst themselves as to who directly employed who, but if it encompassed small business self employed people with only 1 staff would still get the tax credit on their personal allowance even if they were not in one of the higher tax rate income range. Its probably the case that the top ( 50p ) rate of tax should be extended down to 50k annual income and over to fund the tax credits for people who employ people plus a personal allowance of 15k tax free for everyone. Put the basic rate of income tax back up to 25% to compensate again and we could have a fairly fair tax system in the UK, especially if we stopped all pension tax credits as used as a " private tax " fiddle at the moment ?

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"release of a new batch of emails and other documents from the University of East Anglia's Climatic Research Unit"

++

How exciting - its like waiting for the BOE statements on the UK economy

Aboriginaljim wrote: "How do you transfer power from an army financed by and answering to the CIA and their Zionist bosses over to "the people"......it`s the sort of regime change that is so "yesterday" in this brave new warmist globalists world?"

Simple, if they just give everyone in North Africa etc a Smartphone on an extended contract, (securitising the losses on the local stock market), in no time at all, the population will be so preoccupied with social-networking, itunes and reality shows that they'll forget all about politics and readily buy anything multinationals want to sell.

After all, it worked in the USA, Europe, Japan etc. It's Faustian, and works better than heroin as it's legal.

Our Economics editor Paul Mason reports?

Well not on his blog, apparently!

Questions - Why is price of Euro holding up so strong when logically with all problems & weakness - Ex rate against US$ GBP etc should be much weaker?

Other currencies commensurately weaker?

Speculators believe that ECB will move & pledge 10 Trn Euros if there is a run on the Euro?

Speculators being responsible & not attacking the Euro so as not too damage Share & bond markets as all inter-connected? Doubt it - wouldn't stop a Soros **** **** type would it?

Speculators have derivate trades in place on Euro & hedging between those positions & transfer value to another currency?

Nahh! If the speculators & currency traders like Goldman Sachs & China thought ECB would not step in as lender of last resort to protect Euro - Euro would now be near worthless already ... but timewise the tipping point is being reached & France is getting edgy as its own banks more exposed to Euro collapse than German banks as a refloated Franc will be weaker than a refloated Deutsche Mark.

Ironically, German brinkmanship may be the 'straw that breaks the camels back' on the Euro - & not the problems in the Eurozone; if the markets get nervous & cause a panic run on the Euro before the ECB is able to respond - as this can happen quickly - within a few hours once a Euro slide starts.

Interesting times - and even now some in UK still think UK joining the Euro is a viable option for the UK with UK economy in a massive mess.

Lessons learned - with the UK economy now the most indebted in the world as excepting UK liabilities also - what the UK needs is breathing space and maximum flexibility on e.g interest rates & public spending - a new Euro straight-jacket would crash the UK into a third world broken economy

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brossen99 wrote: "The problem with the universities is that especially more recently they have been turning out graduates hostile to big government if any at all."

The Libertarians have increased the load on universities by sending tem 50% of the cohort rather than 10% as was the case a gen4eration or so ago.

This has made teaching all but impossible without dramatically lowering standards i.e quality of courses.

It's all about withering away the state and letting the Private Sector comprise more than 80% of the workforce/economy. That Big Government is clobbered by not-so-smart students is par for the course and that's what many find so hard to grasp, as they don't expect Government to welcome its own demise. But that's what they're being paid to do, hence the Expenses Scandal etc, I suggest. FOIA only applies to the Public Sector, as does the HRA. These cripple the Public Sector which makes it easier to get rid of.

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I HAVE THE SOLUTION TO PARTY FUNDING - DISPENSE WITH PARTIES

In recent times, we have heard a lot about 'Great Britain plc'. Which other plc manages its business through institutional conflict? I have never heard of 'John Lewis Loyal Opposition'.

SPOILPARTYGAMES - GOVERN THROUGH WISDOM NOT PARTIES

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GLOBAL WORMING WORSE THAN WE THOUGHT?

The Great North American Ice Sheet was visibly collapsing in the background, even as the American scientist gave his report.

Or might it have been a typically crass, stock shot, of normal polar glacier activity, as over centuries? Let's see some snow falling on Greenland next time NewsyNighty.

Balance eh?

DIGNITY - ONLY FOUND IN JOHNNIE FOREIGNER SQUARE

Not found anywhere near Parliament Square.

Nuff sed

SO MANY LAWYERS IN WESTMINSTER - IT'S ALL ABOUT WINNING

Chuku Amunna demonstrated that trademark ethos of the Westminster Creature, to perfection.

Weep Britain.

I NEVER PROMISED YOU A ROSE GARDEN JIM (#23)

I was just saving all that money wasted on notional parties.

You are so right that parties don't exist. They have NO legal constitution that I can discover, no 'culpable officer' when they lie to win elections, hence are free from formal challenge under law. D MOCK CRASS - Y?

SPOILPARTYGAMES

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INDEED JIM - BUT I CHOSE THE ONE WORD OF THE BLINDED DENTIST (#28)

I felt it spoke with more authority than any I might choose.

@7 Jericoa I agreed with much of your comment, but not this: "a branch of science which consistently denies the activity of the sun has anything to do with climate change. "

Does it? I have never seen evidence of any climate scientist making such an absurd denial! One of the best ways of vilifying a rival or opponent is to put words into their mouth which they haven't uttered. Then one can argue with a phantom of one's own creation and win.

I would guess that the average temperature at the earth's surface is about 290Kelvins. If it were not for the sun, and volcanic/lunar tidal effects, it would be close to 0K (absolute zero). The relation between energy input and temperature is highly non-linear. Because of the effect of entropy in thermodynamic equations, I would expect that a large net increase in the rate of energy absorption from the sun would have a relatively modest effect upon mean ABSOLUTE temperature. However, there would be a significant increase in entropy which MIGHT translate into violent weather etc.

My understanding is that without the greenhouse effect of gasses and water vapour, the Earth would be significantly cooler and less "human friendly". The questions are, if T is the mean absolute temerature, and [G] is the concentartion of a particular greenhouse gas, (1) what is the value of ∂T/∂[G] in the partial differential equation for dT, and (2) is this offset or reinforced by the net effect of other factors? Then we also need to determine ∂[G]/∂t. where t is time, and ask as to what extent this is attributable to human activity. Finally, we need to ask, in the short term of the last century or so, and the next, whether or not this is significant compared with the effects of measurable changes in solar activity.

Determining the difficult answers to these simple (but not easy) questions is what climate science should be addressing.

I don't know the answers: how many people with a strong opinion even understand the questions? Not George W Bush and not Chris Huhne for sure!

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What sanctimonious twaddle from the former Scotsman editor, defending the tabloids with the 'innocent 'til proven guilty' principle in their being judged over wider phone hacking.

Pity the tabloids don't follow this principle themselves. Case in point, landlord Christopher Jefferies who was condemned by them without any evidence

Oh how the newspapers protest if they don't think they're being treated justly.

The hypocrisy stinks.

Giving political parties money based on votes received is both a disincentive to vote, and an incentive to electoral fraud!

"ELECTORAL FRAUD" - A DEFINING TAUTOLOGY (#34)

An assertion I intend to bring to the public consciousness, with proof of connivance by a range of MPs and Peers, before the next election is called.

https://spoilpartygames.blogspot.com/2011/10/when-is-mp-not-mp-and-vulnerable.html

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Aboriginaljim wrote: ".why would anyone pacify the Egyptians by distributing electronic largesse to the destitute masses of North Africa? They "can`t afford" them anyway."

For the same reason that they distributed expensive unaffordable goods like houses, loans for cars, TVs etc to poor African-Americans, poor Hispanic-Americans, and poor White-Americans. patriarchal, authoritarian states tend to keep an eye on this sort of behaviour as do theocracies. See riba. What the Libertarians hope is that they can nudge these populations towards Sunni Islam-lite. (a bit like Protestantism).

Sasha Clarkson wrote: ""Determining the difficult answers to these simple (but not easy) questions is what climate science should be addressing."

As you say earlier in your post, given there are non-linear equations in Climate "Science", there have been those out there eager to take advantage of a Dynamical ("chaotic") System for political purposes.

Long range prediction is only possible statistically and many of these "scientists" are not to be trusted given that they "simplify" their Fan Charts by fading the error bands to grey. People are being peddled worse "science " than that by economists.

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@40 That's one prognosis Jim. I'm sure that the new Crusader Kingdom will not exist as a state in 100 year's time. (I'm not too sure about most of humanity actually.)

But "bringing back home to the west" neglects the fact that many Israeli Jews, including, from what I can see, most of the Likudistas, have their origins and ancestry in the former Russian empire. The brutality of that empire is mirrored in Likud doctrine. I would happily give asylum to the likes of Shimon Peres, but who in the western world would want an influx of those who have become like their former persecutors? Sadly, the cycle of cruelty will continue:

"Atrocity never balances or rectifies the past. Atrocity merely arms the future for more atrocity. It is self-perpetuating upon itself — a barbarous form of incest. Whoever commits atrocity also commits those future atrocities thus bred."

Frank Herbert - Dune (various)

What are the chances of a Palestinian Nelson Mandela?

BBC's Mr Climate Change accepted £15,000 in grants from university rocked by global warning scandal

Roger Harrabin, the BBC’s ‘environment analyst’, used the money from the University of East Anglia’s Tyndall Centre for Climate Change Research to fund an ‘ad hoc’ partnership he ran with a friend.

Read more: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2063737/BBCs-Mr-Climate-Change-accepted-15-000-grants-university-rocked-global-warning-scandal.html


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2063737/BBCs-Mr-Climate-Change-accepted-15-000-grants-university-rocked-global-warning-scandal.html

more smelly underpants of the co2 warmers?

Steven Pinker "Language as a Window into Human Nature."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-son3EJTrU

A though provoking and illuminating talk and animation. It describes perfectly some of the communication problems of this blog!

BBC drops Frozen Planet's climate change episode to sell show better abroad

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthnews/8889541/BBC-drops-Frozen-Planets-climate-change-episode-to-sell-show-better-abroad.html

why are the bbc inflicting the co2 tosh on us? because they think its 'good for us'? the bbc seem desperate to sex up the co2 rubbish at every opportunity? Because for t

The story of the BBC’s bias on global warming gets ever murkier. Last week there was quite a stir over a new report for the BBC Trust which criticised several programmes for having been improperly funded or sponsored by outside bodies. One, for instance, lauded the work of Envirotrade, a Mauritius-based firm cashing in on the global warming scare by selling “carbon offsets”, which it turned out had given the BBC money to make the programme.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/8901365/The-BBCs-hidden-warmist-agenda-is-rapidly-unravelling.html

bbc getting cash for carbon?

why is susan missing these stories? does one have to give money first?

#31 Sasha

I take your point on the chin Sasha.

I suppose the point i was trying to make was 2 fold.

1) Getting annoyed at being labelled a 'global warming' (now changed to climate change) denier.. imotive terms used for non scientific reasons.. sometimes one just wants to give them a taste of their own medicine!

2) I am a fan of the cloud generation solar forcing model (an indirect mechanism linked to the solar wind activity rather than solar heat output).. dont have the reference to hand but research is being done at CERN to generate the required laboratory ' solar wind / cosmic ray' effect on average earth cloud cover.

Anyone who has felt the temp change on a sunny day when a cloud passes in front of the sun would know that average cloud cover and what governs average cloud generation and %tage coverage must be a key player in global temperature.

Seems to me the more research they do the harder it is getting for the current crop of climate researchers to substantiate existing thinking on the subject.

got to go.

will pop in from time to time.

j

22.At 22:36 22nd Nov 2011, Aboriginaljim wrote:
@19 Their master stroke was getting rid of grammar schools ....just as they have privatised dentistry. It must have really upset the Cameron-Osborne-Johnson`s that snotty commoners got the same sort of education for which they had to pay a fortune to Eton!

++

Most of the kids who went to grammar schools (1960's) were probably from working or middle class backgrounds at a time when schools were still teaching the 3R's and when it was still possible to get a real apprenticeship.

Quite a few children of those in public sector blowing left wing trumpet now sending their children to Eaton - left wingers have been sending their kids to Eaton since WW2 and beyond.

Eaton now has one of the best bursary systems for the under-privileged in the entire world.

If getting rid of the grammar schools was anyone's 'master-stroke' - we would never wish to see 'them' leave the UK economy is a mess with the biggest debts in the world - Now would we?

The perversity of misinformed rhetoric!

#46

ps

I think it will only be a short time before some of the current influencial anthropogenic climate change advogates switch allegiance... followed by a stampede for the exit.....I just dont want them to take sustainability out the door along with them.

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50. At 10:03 23rd Nov 2011, You wrote:
Your comment has been referred for further consideration. Explain.

I agreed with a published post, with factual support on another BBC thread, and then cited another BBC URL to add to Ms. Watts' contribution to the climategate story.

No House Rule on earth is relevant.

You mock yourselves by such (re)action.

Jaunty - your links are typical Daily Mail hatchet jobs: lurid headlines and very little substance. Is it wrong for the BBC to let the open University make programmes for them? Most of the big climate change deniers have a big financial interest riding on their expressed opinions.

Despite a strong scientific background, or perhaps because of it. I KNOW that I don't know enough to have a definitive informed opinion on the CO2 issue. But I certainly recognise patterns of human behaviour. I absolutely agree with this: "Jim Hansen, head of Nasa's Goddard Institute for Space Studies, said "....... deniers, or contrarians, if you will, do not act as scientists, but rather as lawyers."

"As soon as they see evidence against their client (the fossil fuel industry and those people making money off business-as-usual), they trash that evidence and bring forth whatever tidbits they can find to confuse the judge and jury."

www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/oct/20/global-warming-study-climate-sceptics

The only way this will be decided is by open peer reviewed research.

52.At 10:24 23rd Nov 2011, Aboriginaljim wrote:
@47 Nautonier....I am quite happy to be wrong over grammar schools if you convince me that I am.....but perhaps 47 is too cryptic or I am too thick to understand your gist.

++
First thing, is to get the facts right.

Of all the grammar schools closed by Crossland/Crossman; what were the backgrounds of most of the children there?

Of all the material I've seen over the years, & where it is available - even in posh SE areas - most of the children in those grammar schools came from no better than average income households.

You'll never convince me that was any kind of 'master-stroke'.

'54. At 10:40 23rd Nov 2011, Sasha Clarkson wrote:
Jaunty - your links are typical Daily Mail hatchet jobs: lurid headlines and very little substance.

Despite a strong scientific background, or perhaps because of it....'

While experience has shown the Daily Mail is not a medium whose reporting, much less 'take' on anything is to be swallowed without checking wide and deep (one I now apply across the board, even to most trusted national treasures, after such as this: https://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2011/11/apology_for_andrew_tyrie.html ), I am interested in the scientific background that leads to such a statement being so blithely made in dismissal.

Especially as, currently, the BBC seems reluctant to allow even URL links to other BBC stories on this topic, especially interactive ones where the voices in support of assessing what is written seem to be prevailing over those seeking dismissal based on little more than tribal dogma. So setting the Graun vs. the Telegraph really is no more than a starting point for some, as neither may be right, or wrong... scientifically, until proven to be so. I agree peer review is most helpful but, as various revelations highlight, like news media, who does to reviewing of whom, and what gets published as a result, can 'vary'.

Even the usual OT excuse is stretched beyond breaking as it is a topic, and indeed one being (albeit grudgingly, and often selectively) 'reported' on these pages.

A quick tweet surf of Graun and BBC protagonists on this topic suggests the focus is not with the content of what seem undisputed factual records, but with how they were obtained and why.

Relevant and worthy of consideration to be sure, but oddly not concerns at the time of Wikileaks or others 'news' exposes that perhaps suited other agendas to the point of being obsessive.

Such lack of curiosity in certain quarters at what is available to view, no matter how, seems... interesting.

ISN'T PEER REVIEW PART OF THE PROBLEM? (#54)

Hi Sasha - I've said this before: If you 'know' human nature (now studies support this - group conformity) you know that peer review is deeply flawed by - er - human nature.

Ultimately, overall awareness (including SELF-awareness) is required; in a word MATURITY. And I guess you know that science is a place for the immature to hide (reasons obvious) and they do.

Personally, to paraphrase Groucho: I would not belong to a human race that would have me as a member.

In passing: I would choose SEA pollution to fret about, not air. Ironically, in their PARALLEL universe, our barmy government have gone for wind power NOT TIDAL STREAM. Is there a Freudian fixation with the more tenuous of the two fluids? Some sort of ''Earth Humours' ethos: sea-water, air, natural gas and (Black Bile) petroleum?

"Out of my depth."

#58 & sasha

I am with you on this one Barrie, I doubt many leading papers on anthropo co2 climate change were peer reviewed by academics outside of the existing pro lobby on the subject prior to publication.

The politics and hedgemoney associated with it has to be sorted out first before any good science will come out of the research in the way Sasha proposes. It is of course the ideal to have unleveraged peer review, but is it realistic that will ever happen?

In other words, factoring in human nature, we will probably never know in our lifetime until it is no longer a geopolitical issue and will have to be satisfied with ill informed argument from both camps until mother nature feels inspired to let us know who is right in no uncertain terms....

In the meantime I suggest we just forget about the whole thing and concentrate on sustainability as a driving decision making tool irrespective of co2 climate change issues, it is the only win win option out there.

no money to be made from carbon trading or its offspring from that though (oops sorry .. cant help myself) only human !!!!.



:)

Imagine what would happen if, for reasons all to do with depopulation essentially, a group of people who were not very good at maths and science (and intelligence test proxy) nevertheless became ever more prevalent in the workforce. Consider for a moment that said group are not so much prone to lying, just not being very good at, or very interested in, "pursuit of truth".

Now imagine calling up your bank, or some other Service Sector provider, and being advised on a problem from one of said people on a help-desk.

Imagine said group had chosen subjects related to the performing arts, creative writing, languages etc just to drive the point home. Might there have ben a time when said group was actively discouraged from entering the workforce in the interest of the economy and preventing chaos?

Now, also imagine said group having a biological bias towards saying and doing anything which made them look and sound good and you may at least part of the full horror (I've left part of the consequences out, but they've been covered elsewhere).

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SPOT Mr SPEAKER'S NON SEQUITUR (addressing 'Uproar Governance' at PMQs)

"Laughing about denial of a hearing, is not to the credit of HONOURABLE and RIGHT HONOURABLE members, does them no credit."

Mr Speaker! Why not strip their UNEARNED EMBELLISHMENT until such time as honour reigns?

Nuff sed

Here's a current CNN article which illustrates just how out of control some of the US politicians are with respect to truth.

https://edition.cnn.com/2011/11/23/politics/truth-squad-iran-israel/

In the early 1990s, the USSR was "wiped off the map", just as many states have been throughout history, one of the most recent being Yugoslavia.

The reason why Iran refers to Israel as the "Zionist Entity" is because Iran doesn't recognise Israel as a legitimate state. Similarly, there are Palestinians who do not legally recognise Israeli borders, as doing so would be to accept a fait accompli.

In this on-going battle for recognition and identity (note), Israel typically and emotiively, keeps upping the ante. This is clearly provocative.

Interestingly, it's how Borderlines (an Axis II Cluster B Identity Disorder ) sometimes get others to attack them rather than self-harm.

STILL NO WORD OF "THE ERROR BAND" - A NEW TITLE FOR THE COALITION?

Dave says we grew at 0.5% (better than this and that country, meaning theirs were even lower figures) BUT NO WORD OF THE ERROR BAND.

Is there a mathematician in The House?

Sasha Clarkson wrote: ""The brutality of that empire is mirrored in Likud doctrine. I would happily give asylum to the likes of Shimon Peres, but who in the western world would want an influx of those who have become like their former persecutors? "

Some people who do bad things to others treat those who catch and punish them as persecutors simply because they don't like being made to look bad and having their predatory behaviour curtailed. One needs some understanding of the complex nature of Axis II Cluster B behaviour (ASPD) and offending behaviour to see the full force of that remark.

To see the possible flaw in your assertions above, I suggest you will need to dig out some of the translations into English of chapters from Solzhenitsyn 's book "Two Hundred Years Together", as it paints a more complex picture than you make out, or, for an older perspective, download the pdf files of what some on the ground (working for the British Foreign Office) reported about the fomented pogroms in late C19th Russia (essentially there's an assertion that some of this was a means to solicit asylum abroad). The latter files are available at the "Moving Here" website which I recall may have been Government funded.

One has to be very careful about hard luck stories which some potential migrants spin in order to get asylum and/or solicit support for their anarchistic politics and economics. One should look at behaviours, their frequencies and their outcomes, not to the verbal tales which people spin in order to make themselves look good and/or acquire power and influence. For more obvious examples today, just observe the "sponsor an animal" nonsense which one sees on TV or in magazines which play on human guilt and emotionality. This exploits "negative reinforcement".

One finds many who have been unwittingly making matters worse in our society have been doing just that. On the face of it, they appear to be caring, but the consequences of their behaviour (providing relief) is an increase the likelihood of offending behaviour as one has to look at what it is relief from to see the full picture, not just the proximal aversive end state. On closer inspection one sees the relief agent does this for themselves, i.e to look good or otherwise gain supply - often financial. They ignore outcome measures which is always a give-away.

Hence the (probably doomed) move towards "payment by results" (outcome) will lead to a major brain-gender shift in those providing services....
in time. Alas, it won't address the problem, as we know it's genetic.

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Sasha Clarkson wrote: "Steven Pinker "Language as a Window into Human Nature." A though provoking and illuminating talk and animation. It describes perfectly some of the communication problems of this blog!"

Once again, some helpful advice. Just remember that Natural Languages are intensional, and thus not truth functional. The same is true of psychology as its verbs are intensional. This is not the same as Behaviour Science note as Behaviour Science eschews psychology.

This goes a long way towards explaining two things:

1) The brain-feminisation of psychology as a subject and profession over the last generation (80% of psychology students are females as is the profession)

2) the take-over by tribal males who don't/can't know what they are talking about but like to perform.

For some previous generation Harvard views on the magnitude of this problem, here are a couple of links. For the first, listen carefully at about 11 minutes in, he was a master of logic and the problems of language.

https://seab.envmed.rochester.edu/society/seab_audio.html

https://folk.uio.no/roffe/files/Having_a_Poem.mp3

Note, it was a take-over by pseudo-Behavioural-Economists and Cognitive "Scientists" which exacerbated many of our current Libertarian woes, so my advice is to be careful about what one opposes or argues against, as it may, given the culture, be self-destructive (self-harming) behaviour (see earlier). Despite those who assert that "DBT" works, sadly, it is, according to all outcome measures, incorrigible. It needs to be better managed - but one of the reasons it is incorrigible is the cost of trying to manage it. It is a major challenge, as the numbers are increasing. See SEN and crime/custody rates for some oblique indicators.

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Sasha Clarkson wrote ""The only way this will be decided is by open peer reviewed research."

The quality of which is under considerable threat given the massive proliferation of journals from publishers in pursuit of money, not good science, and the relentless attacks on Public Sector Higher Education, as mentioned elsewhere. Peer Review is not what it once was. Too many people put personal advancement before that of science these days. It is a serious problem.

Is truth the first casualty of blogs?

I only ask because, for example, Jewish Isreali citizens who are thinking of starting a family can, at no cost, have a DNA analysis run to quantify the risk of mutant genes/hereditary diseases being passed on to any offspring.

Which might run counter to some of the thinly disguised discrimination that you might sometimes encounter on these blogs.

Is there a case to be made that historical forms of identifying dress (hats and badges) served at one time just a public identity card highlighting those not subject to and not conforming to the ruling status quo? By that I simply mean that in a predominantly Catholic (Christian) economic system which proscribed usury, those whose laws did not proscribe usury between its members and those of the out-group needed to clearly identify themselves as money-lenders who were not breaking the law as they were not subject to the same laws which governed everyone else. Anyone making out that such people were being persecuted or discriminated against would have misunderstood what the rules of the system were at the time, and anyone trying to undermine the rules or operate without giving a clear signal of their group membership and privileged positions, would have been treated as subversives if not criminals would they not?.

Lots of people have a hard time with these complex issues - different sects have different "religious" (political really) rules of conduct with codes which clash.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_hat

Barriesingleton wrote "Out of my depth."

Indeed but is that just a disingenuous solicitation of supply? For someone who keeps saying "nuff said" (and now the above), and who periodically justifies behaviour with the peculiar qualification of lack of formal education, you appear nevertheless to have an awful lot to say which is both highly critical and assertoric. Yet you take offence when advised. Is that not just a little bit odd?

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The studio discussion last night on pay, one female Conservative MP (Liz
Truss):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Truss

made the case, once again (it's a standard Libertarian line) that there's not been ENOUGH competition, i.e that the markets have not been free enough..

One can analyse what she and others like her say in one of two ways. One is in terms of their own internal (proximal) logic, and the other is in terms of distal relations which may or may not be manageable in terms of their "mathematical complexity". If one makes the mistake of arguing with those who speak from their internal (intensional) logic, one effectively wastes one's time if pursuing truth, as there's no truth to such matters of taste or psychology. One simply can't win arguments here, as argument is impossible given that reason/logic does not apply in such domains.

If one IS seduced into thinking otherwise, one ends up playing their game according to no rules, and as one could se last night, it literally comes down to who can be the most disingenuous.

Hence people are advised not to get into such political or religious "arguments", as they invariably end in conflict, if not violence. Liz Truss must know this given the degree she chose. Libertarians are anarchists. Note how she prefaced most of what she said with I THINK.

All this user's posts have been removed.Why?

Aboriginaljim wrote: "it`s the experience of my sixty five years that if people are prosperous and can gell around a mutually beneficial agreed culture their genetic background seems less intrusive than if they remain exclusively within a racial community or sub-culture."

Personal experience, however long, is anecdotal and rarely a sound guide. Have a look at long-term trends in our demographics. You will have to start quite recently as many of the data were not adequately recorded in Britain until the 1950s. There were serious concerns being raised by those giving evidence in the 1940s to the Royal Commission on Population which only came about because of serious concerns raised by the PIC and Eugenics Society (now available on line form about 1911-1968). To see much that's happening today one has to look back at least as far as that, and one has to be prepared to look objectively at the data trends, not what people would like to believe, as most of that is sadly false (especially what's believed by those working in psychology, social work and education etc). That is a tad ironic to say the least. Shocking even. An awful lot of people have an awful lot, radically wrong. That is the message of the research. See Plomin and Daniels for a start.

Has the release of said climate e-mails bounced Huhne into making his energy statement in the HoC today at short in fact even hardly any notice, apparently leaked via the warmist Guardian this morning before even Labour was told ?

https://www.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/7417453/huhnes-partner-involved-in-lobbying-row.thtml

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

JohnConstable wrote:"I only ask because, for example, Jewish Isreali citizens who are thinking of starting a family can, at no cost, have a DNA analysis run to quantify the risk of mutant genes/hereditary diseases being passed on to any offspring."

Jewish people have been practicing eugenics for centuries.

Understandably, part of that means discouraging other groups from doing the same, often accusing them of racism, encouraging anti-racism, anti-sexism etc for the outgroup..

This is just human group competition, i.e competitive politics. If you read the New Testament you will see both Jesus and John The Baptist making very anti-Semitic remarks about the Pharisees and their hypocrisy

- but in truth, all humans are prone to such non joined up thinking and behaviours - some more than others perhaps. It's something which we all struggle with. One sees it all the time. It's a large part of why we talk, discuss, disagree etc. See Intensional opacity (begin with Oedipus).

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Aboriginaljim wrote: "Perhaps you have some genetic predisposition to taking offence at Barrie taking offence Mr D? You probably can`t help yourself in this regard.....because the fault is outside your conscious understanding."

Perhaps, and perhaps not. Either way the explanation is irrelevant to the point being made and its truth value. If you look more closely at what was written you may see that I was remarking upon his taking offence, and that was a description of (some of) his postings, as well as what he takes issue with (normally something personal about a politicians rather than his or her party's policies).

I'm not personally offended by behaviour which is characteristically ad hominem as this is usually evidence of woolly reasoning i.e irrelevance in discrimination. I point this out as part of the diversity of human behaviour and what we have to better manage and I've drawn your attention elsewhere to its higher prevalence and how that seems to have changed over the decades (see the rise in SEN, the rising prison population, our decline in position in international tables of academic excellence and our failing economy). It is odd for someone to make a point about their lack of formal education, and to go on to make out that this does not matter. as it does, especially when they are not receptive to correction on matters of fact..That is characteristic of individualism and anarchism - which has become a major problem has it not? Anarchism comes in many guises.

A LITLE BIT ODD? (#73)

Poor Brown Dog (I have heard about brown dogs) can you not even perceive VERY odd when it is under your doggie nose?

Nuff sed

All this user's posts have been removed.Why?

All this user's posts have been removed.Why?

I DO HOPE BROWN DOG'S POSTINGS WILL FIND THEIR WAY INTO 'THE TEXTBOOKS'

They are truly illuminating, not only to me, but to other posters here and in the wider world.

Pay Commission

But the Minimum Wage Law was suppose to do the opposite , was it not ?

I also sow from Pauls graph that public sector workers pay has kept up with economic growth far better than the private sector (wealth creation sector).

I find this argument has similarities with the “social mobility” one. Government bans schools from picking those children that show academic aptitude at eleven, because it is not fair for those that aren't picked. Then , shock and outrage , social mobility over the following decades plummet to new lows, and as the result the poor stay poor over multiple generations.

Climate Gate II

So empirical science needs PR and SPIN ?

Gee and their was me thinking Newtons argument was won on provable (demonstrable) science.

Oh but I forgot , global warming is a theory and is not, as yet ,a scientific law in its own right.

Seems strange to spend £200 billion of taxpayers and energy users money on a mere theory.

'78. At 13:35 23rd Nov 2011, brossen99 -
Has the release of said climate e-mails bounced Huhne into making his energy statement in the HoC today at short in fact even hardly any notice, apparently leaked via the warmist Guardian this morning before even Labour was told ?'

Who gets what from whom and when, and what they then do with it all, or not, being grist to a very strange mill.

The Graun is currently explaining why one media's long and trumpeted noble investigation in leaks may be another's unacceptable hacking. They do seem central to the efforts of many, pro and con.

So far, not too convinced.

I am sure tonight's guest list will help clarify. There always is an expert from this high ABC paper to speak on behalf of the nation.

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IT'S WORSE THAN THAT STEVE - IT'S A BELIEF IN A FUTURE THEORY! (#88)

But NewsyNighty won't notice. . .

Is the Wednesday thread broken?

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Aboriginaljim wrote:"@81 Despite all this eugenic behaviour the more than anecdotal evidence is that the narrower the gene pool you have the more intellectual and physical defects you get."

That's a Libertarian myth. Once one breeds out problematic mutations one gets thoroughbreds etc, ask farmers about animals, and crops. Some polymorphisms also have unexpected advantages but there's far more to good breeding (which is what eugenics means) than most people appreciate. Post war generations have been led to believe that bad breeding is actually good! It's truly Orwellian - but then, that's only to be expected, as Orwell was an anarchist (Libertarian) not a statist.

As I say, generations of social scientists have been sold down the river, and many continue, as "useful idiots" (it attracts the infantile disordered) to indoctrinate others with such nonsense too, to all our cost. It is not environment which maters (aside from Child Protection).

At least look into it.

I've read the house rules, so far as I can tell the only reason to pull my 92 is because it was a substantial reposting of my 82 in turn of 80. However, as I haven't got all day I just want to see my comment posted (I would be irritated to return later on only to find the blog closed for comments when I want to get my tuppence worth in). So stop faffing and post my 82.

Here's a couple of additions originally in my 92 that were not in my earlier posts.

Max Keiser's a laugh too. Here's a long article about swearing. https://dyske.com/paper/937 .

https://www.bishop-hill.net/blog/2011/11/23/newsnight-does-climategate-ii.html

'Without context, it's hard to work out the true meaning...'

True. However, often context, when added, can be a bit of a problem...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/newsnight/susanwatts/2009/01/restoring_science_to_its_right.html?postId=74767996

Aboriginaljim wrote: "It may seem strange but that`s what you get in a society designed around a few people being able to hi-jack politicians and academics and the media/public opinion....and screw us for whatever they can get."

Only if one ASSUMES a Libertarian free-market society. That is precisely why Michael Young (who drafted the 1945 Labour manifesto) parodied exactly that in the 1950s when he coined the term "meritocracy", and why shortly before he died, he had a go at Blair's party in the Guardian for abusing the concept.

Herrnstein and Murray (1994) needs to be examined closely. The problem is, most of the Libertarian (anarchistic) New Left social scientists clobbered them at the time for it. Herrnstein was in fact a Communitarian like Young, at heart (unlike Murray!). This can be seen at the end of Herrnstein's 1990 paper on Behavioural-Economics which one will find linked to in this blog if one looks. Behavioural-economics is operant, and makes the case for regulation which was of course anathema to what was brewing in NYC Wall Street long before 2007/8. Skinner reckoned Walden II would be most appropriate for somewhere like China just as Keynes openly said that his economic system was most suited to 1930s Germany. There has been a lot of distortion. First the social scientists were fed a load of nonsense, then it was Business Studies and MBAs etc.

I'm well aware of what most people in these areas think, as that is how they were taught, but what they were taught accounts for what we had as a society. In China, they place people where they are best utilised.

That used to be the way our own Civil Service operated, i.e with mobile grades. There is not much difference between working as a Civil Servant and as a Chinese Party Member if you think about it. They are administrative grades.

barriesingleton wrote: "MIGHT THE GOVERNMENT ALSO 'CONSIDER' TIMELY PAYMENT OF INVOICES?

I was 35 years in small business ("

What's the likelihood of a coalition of two Libertarian parties which are ideologically committed to deregulation, the Private Sector and the free-market, ever legislating or having a viable Public Sector to enforce any such policies?

This is not the People's Republic of China or National Socialist Germany. We get an almost daily dose of propaganda to make the electorate hate such regulators.

All this user's posts have been removed.Why?

All this user's posts have been removed.Why?

Barriesingeton wrote "This is not civilisation under rule of law, it's dog eat dog, cultural corruption."

One the contrary, it's civilisation under Libertarian law (dog eat dog free-market competition). If one wants regulation, one has to forego "business" as we've long known it which is why the former USSR, Vietnam, Korea, Cambodia etc came down so heavily on entrepreneurs as people committing crimes against the people. In their system, everyone worked for each other and the state, not personal gain. Why has this not sunk in? We have NON Government. This is why large companies spend so much on lawyers and accountants to bully their competitors - in fact, it's why they become so large, as they exist at the expense of small dogs.
Libertarianism is a cannibalistic system, and that is something which anyone who's been in business for even for a few years soon learns.

It's why the likes of Liz Truss (who was on Newsnight last night) and others like Alan Sugar, are regarded as heroes or spawn of the devil depending on what sort of society one wants (none-at-all, or "totalitarian'). Only 'totalitarian' societies regulate the way you envisage and they need a large Public Sector to enforce their regulations. We on the other hand spend a lot of time (and the USA spends trillions of dollars) on regime changing foreign regulators in case they bring their busy body ways over here and spoil the feasting.
Except many are too 'preoccupied' to see this.