Thursday 14 July 2011

WHY IS DAVE SO EXERCISED ABOUT BEING LIED TO?

Nuff sed.

Newsnight is chewing this bone to the exclusion of all else. Please widen your focus. There is so much happening.

For example, the situation in Syria is every bit as important as the Libyan crisis ever was, but perhaps the Assads are perceived as too tough a nut to crack by our leaders?

https://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/07/2011714115151803721.html

Back home, the situation in the other NI, Ulster gives great cause for concern. As for the Murdoch NIgate, how we are seen by others is interesting. The German Press is quoting Shakespeare and suggesting that "British Democracy Is a Farce". Oh the irony!

https://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,774448,00.html

MURDOCH: HE BOMBS NOT, NEITHER DOES HE SELL ALCOHOL, TOBACCO, NOR ARMS.

Nuff sed.

Out here in the real world, nobody is interested in this stupid phone hacking story. The Beeb need to concentrate on some real news and drop the personal vendettas.

'2. At 18:37 14th Jul 2011, Sasha Clarkson wrote:
Newsnight is chewing this bone to the exclusion of all else'

Old dogs. No new tricks.

One doesn't get the impression they read their own blogs much, either.

It's 'better' that way. Amongst other things. Apparently.

At least John, Polly & Alistair are sure to be watching. So that's at least 3.

@4 YOUR agenda is clear from your other posts. Plenty of real people are interested in - and disgusted by - the fact that a foreign media company expects our leaders to kowtow, and invades the privacy of all from high to low, doing things which th police could not do without a court order. Murdoch has never been interested in the "public interest": just in bullying governments in HIS interests and, if possible, keeping the masses sedated with the modern equivalent of "bread and circuses".

However Auntie Beeb/Newsnight, this story is not the only story in town. I almost suspect that the overkill is a deliberate ploy to make people get sick of it. I am also beginning to think that no more than two Newsnights per week should be presented from London. The rest should rotate through a list of say 10 regional centres?

@3 Barrie: Murdoch does not bomb, but without risks to himself, he is a cheerleader for, and inciter of, those who do. It was he who said that the Iraq war would be worth it, if (as he hoped) it reduced the price of oil to $20 per barrel. Like so many who supported the war, he was ignorant of, and not interested in, the history and realpolitik of Mesopotamia and its environs.

https://yournewreality.blogspot.com/2007/11/hey-rupert-what-happened-to-all-those.html

Those who WANT our leaders to be told what to do by a foreign power are following in a fine tradition: Oswald Moseley, William Joyce, John Amery, etc. Poor old Leo Amery, a Conservative minister of great ability and integrity, disowned his own son.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Amery

I JUST GOT TIRED OF POSTING 'MOTE AND BEAM' - 'FOOL OR KNAVE' SASHA (#6)

MP put themselves forward as improvers of 'the life'; they sign up to a form of words suggesting they might be moral, and dub themselves 'Honourable'. I am not aware that Murdoch has made any declaration - express or implied - of dedication to betterment of the punter. And even if he has, he is not in any position of elevation and trust (such as MPs) that I recognise. He does not rule me.

Many MPs pay lip service to Christian principles if not faith.

MOTE AND BEAM.

there is much happening, around the World (starvation, war, pestilence), but at least with the newspaper scandal nomal people can do something about it, annoy the bejesus out of their MP until they act in our interest, for example.

not much can be done about Assad, or the other brutal dictators. Those events, emotionally rending though they are, are in the hands of the people there.

granted, with a decent UK Govt, there is an incredible amount we could do, but we don't. Simple as. Sorry.

so lets clean up the media, whilst we have the chance (and the Public focus), before the "tabloid elite" manage to start another diversion.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

https://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/jul/13/bombardier-u-turn-hopes-fade

The only reason the Tories have given the Thameslink deal to the Germans is so their stock market parasite backers can CHANGE MONEY on the deal. Labour are just as bad as it was them who wrote the contract specification but I can't help speculating that the 2008 Climate Change Act significantly handicapped the Derby bid. Making trains is a pretty carbon intensive job so any taxes on carbon are going to significantly increase production costs.

Even if we come out of the EU, the stock market parasites will still be pulling the government strings, so in reality we will still get ripped off just as bad. Murdoch is just one of many stock market celebrities who simply don't care about the welfare of anyone, unless you can remove them from the equation the UK will continue its slide into becoming at third world country, but worse as the poorest in society will be forced to freeze to death in winter.

XXX XXX MURDOCH INCITES, AND PROFITS FROM, St TONY'S DELUSIONAL WARS (#6)

You are going to have to talk me through the rights and wrongs of this one Sasha.

How I wish I could lift my mood with nicotine, or lose myself in a haze of alcohol. It would also help the economy. Can't buy a gun, though.

Loving the Murdoch coverage. More please.

Have to say, 14 (fewer if you count repeats) doesn't seem to amount to much, one way or another, against 60M, real or... whatever the alternative suggested is.

Funny old world. Not ha-ha. Sadly.

https://dailybayonet.com/?cat=3

And I thought Bono was Irish. Was that yacht a tax haven?

TWO THOUGHTS ON 9/11

Laura Trevelyan reporting on the 10.00 news, against the NY skyline, was eerily reminiscent of Jane Standley on September 11th 2001.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KBO-7Q_A4s


Should the FBI start to go, definitively, through the list of '9/11 dead', might there be unintended consequences for the official version? Might a parallel discrepancy to the Saloman Building (7) glitch emerge?

Oh what a tangled web. . .

"I AM ELMER J FUDD - I OWN A MANSION AND A YACHT" (#17)

I think you are confusing Bono with a well known (barmy) cartoon character Kev.

Thousands do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yz1kmlsmryM

sasha's links at #2 fantastic, again. Well worth a read, if you missed them. Not all Germans are like the German bankers/politicians, and many of them care deeply about our Nation & Country. Strange, eh?

just as many of us care about the Greeks, Spanish, Africans, 'Arabs'...



......see? Most of us *are* good. And we *all* want to know what is REALLY happening!!

lawyer mark lewis: that would be useless of the Murdochs to deny knowledge of hacking, when there was even concern from parliament back in 2003. But i agree, that will probably be their defence to the committee.


why are currency problems, always portrayed on the News as: "will the austerity be enough to succeed?"??


NN: the clegg story on brown/coulson - EXTREMELY UNLIKELY. Not saying impossible, just unlikely. Not least of which, i can certainly imagine that ex-PM Brown would not be the first person Coulson would have accepted a call from, straight after his resignation.


impressive man, the chap on the yacht. He should own the BBC as well. sic.


the factual honesty of whether or not G Brown cosied up to the NC is of Society interest only - after all, he *definitely* was the least pro-murdoch Leader of the last 32 years. Worth bearing in mind when the crocodile tears flow.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

The resignation of the NI CEO is interesting becase IMHO it shows indecision in NewsCorp were Rupe is saying only "small mistakes" were made whilst James says virtually the exact opposite - clearly Rupe wanted her to stay, but something has tipped her over the edge into going, which is surprising having toughed it out for several days after the row broke.

It also leaves James Murdoch exposed @ NI as the Chairman, so his head could potentially be on the block as more revelations come out, which could mean the Murdochs losing control of NewsCorp, if Rupe retires/kicks the can and his kids can't take over.

IF IT LOOKS LIKE A MALE MAGNET, DRESSES LIKE A MALE MAGNET . . .

I hold the view that the behaviour of one or more top males in this game is not primarily political, or commercial. I sugest (to paraphrase lady Di) 'there are three factors in this carnage'. The third is obvious, BUT IS NEVER CONDUCIVE TO RATIONALITY.

Cherchez la femme vrai.

"REBEKAH BROOKS DID THE RIGHT THING TO RESIGN"

A precedent perhaps? Should ALL those who use deeply underhand methods to increase their power, and who print and disseminate disgraceful 'papers' (such as newspapers and election flyers) be hounded out of (their) office?

I say YES.

ONLY A MATTER OF TIME DAVE.

Strike

..The cancellation of Newsnight will be a particular blow to the corporation as the current affairs programme has enjoyed a boost in ratings since the phone-hacking scandal re-emerged last week. The programme being taken off-air, for today only, comes as on the same day Rebekah Brooks quit her role at News International. Had Newsnight gone ahead as normal it would have been to another rise in ratings.
..

https://www.atvtoday.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1578:bbc-strike-programmes-taken-off-air-and-big-names-stay-away&catid=1:tv-media&Itemid=3

strike or nice long weekend?

given people keep telling us they could earn much more in the private sector they should be delighted at being released and return to earning the big money?

should the bbc use this opportunity to cull the big name wage bill further? After all people merely motivated by money are hardly the sort to go the extra mile anyway?

looks like it was a total lockout for the NUJ at the BBC, I love you BBC but I love the people who work for you more....slash the armed forces, not the workers....

A CULLIN PLAN (#27)

Hi Jaunty. If they just culled the BBC artififartifiers, they could buy a lot more gravitas.

But it is not really of any account. The BBC is a symptom of the Westminster Malaise.

On 'This Week', MP Diane Abbott was sure Brown's anger and hurt was 'genuine' (i.e. related to the phone hacking) she had no idea how easy it is for such a personality to MOVE hurt and anger in 'time and space' (displacement) such that its true origin is obscured. And Portillo (ex MP) loftily assessed Cameron as commanding the House, through failing to listen carefully and spot the non-sequitur ploys of an endangered species, running scared.

While MPs have so little awareness of how HomSap functions, all humanity-related enterprise (school, health, crime etc - aka governance) will be a cock-up.

And it is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbeBxin7o6E&feature=channel_video_title

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

I thought the BBC's union was the NUS, not the NUJ - both literally and in spirit.

It seems to fit their intellectual level.

Rupert Murdochs apology today reminded me of daniel day lewis performance and the plot context to it in this scene in the film

''There will be Blood''

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxuYqXHq2eQ



The summer holidays can not come soon enough for parliament, many will have been hastily re-arranging which yachts they will be frequenting on the mediterranean this year ... media is out this year.. banking and energy will be back in.

They can take the time to discuss new strategies and alliances and take instruction accordingly out on the high seas ready to implement upon thier return in october.

It is going to be abusy time on the med this year...

@32 Stay Calm and look into the mirror. What's YOUR standard of debate?

Better NUS than News International. In a newsagent today I noticed the SUN headline: something to do with Fred and Rosemary West and an alleged brothel at their home. This story, even if it wasn't totally invented, is two decades old. One protagonist is long dead, and the other is in prison. Typical NI - tasteless bread and circuses to try to brainwash the masses as to what constitutes news. They are too ashamed to discuss the real news, so they make "entertainment" by publishing salacious alleged details of past appalling crimes instead. I doubt whether the living relatives of the victims will be entertained.

FIT AND PROPER?

For anyone wanting to improve their standard of debate, I recommend 'Straight And Crooked Thinking' By Robert Thoulless, first published in 1930, still relevant and now happily back in print!

STRAIGHT AND CROOKED THINKING (#34)

Not met that one Sasha - my 'unread' pile too large; I'll look for a synopsis or comment.

My concern is that too few people realise the Westminster Ethos is not dissimilar to that of NI. The indicators are out there and daily more stark.

Westminster is baying for Murdoch blood, partly in an attempt to distance themselves. But this does not alter the fact that in the 2010 election, the Conservatives broke the law, and that NO PARTY OFFICER WILL ADDRESS PROOF WHEN OFFERED. They close uniformly dishonourable ranks.

That is the Westminster Ethos.

Noting the headlong rush to media monopoly by other means results in a lot of 'closed for comments', especially by 5pm.

The obliteration of any news seems to be taking it another step.

We pay the licence fee, and it just covers the pension plan shortfall.

Nifty.

Not sure it's what I wished for. Given the option. Which I am not.

@36 "We pay the licence fee, and it just covers the pension plan shortfall. "

Do you have evidence for that statement? If so please provide a link. Being quite adept at it myself, I have no objections to people being snide, but there should be some basis in fact. :-)

Media barons throughout history have abused their power, and we need some kind of counterbalance. I do think that members of the BBC Trust should be elected though, on some kind of STV system, so that neither 'the great and the good', nor any political party can dominate.

Meanwhile, I had an interesting letter from Simon Hart, my local Tory MP this morning. He says "My colleagues are also consulting with the Cabinet Secretary about an amendment to the Ministerial Code to require Ministers to record all meetings with newspaper and other media proprietors, senior editors and executives - regardless of the nature of the meeting. Permanent Secretaries and Ministerial Special Advisers will also be required to record such meetings."

I shall reply encouraging him in this regard, but urging that phone calls as well as meetings be recorded.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4l79ES2yLg&feature=player_embedded#at=135

THERE IS NO CULTURE LEFT IN THE WEST (#38 link)

Nuff sed.

excellent link bros, #38


galloway in excellent form.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=249JaIaubVw&feature=related

is this an acceptable amount of 'journalistic bias' at Sky News? Also watch how the sound, and sound effects are manipulated. Very revealing.

to reply to 'mackdv' of the youtube links current-video, a Buddhist would *not* regard Rupert Murdoch to be the "anti-Christ", they would regard him to be an individual living with bad ideas, doing wrong things probably from fear. Same with
Taoists, Jungians, and decent Secular Humanism, amongst many others.


sasha #37: "counterbalance. I do think that members of the BBC Trust should be elected though, on some kind of STV system, so that neither 'the great and the good', nor any political party can dominate."

that's a superb suggestion! :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pZzPOQ-Rxw&feature=feedu

ONE TRUSTWORTHY MP WOULD BE PREFERABLE TO A THOUSAND RECORDED ONES

Do we not all know that data is never endingly lost, destroyed, contaminated etc? This is WESTMINSTER where the 'dog eats my homework' routinely. Corruption is rife.

Did not Fred get the name 'Shred' and were not St Tony's monetary records shredded? In passing: The Hutton Report shredded credulity. It is all of a piece.

YOU CANNOT MONITOR ROGUES AND CHARLATANS - WE HAVE TO STOP PUTTING THEM INTO POSITIONS OF POWER! Replace them with individuals who prize their honour above power and wealth. Avoid those who wear a badge of bogus honour while degrading its very name.

DISMANTLE WESTMINSTER - SPOILPARTYGAMES - NEVER VOTE 'ROSETTE'

As I may have scraped over the 400 char limit, even this slightly less 'better' system seems to have melted down trying to cope. Let's try bite-sized...
----

As one tilts at the odd windmill, I am often intrigued by the white knights that can pop out in defence of multi-national corporations and see fit to comment as much on the person as much as what's being discussed.

37. At 12:11 16th Jul 2011, Sasha Clarkson
Do you have evidence for that statement? If so please provide a link. Being quite adept at it myself, I have no objections to people being snide, but there should be some basis in fact. :-)

Your lack of objection is noted, if unnecessary. Last I looked, the control of free comment, even on publicly-funded media blogs, was tight, but not in the hands of an unelected, self-electing special 'few'. At, least, not yet.

I also don't need 'evidence' in this case, as it was a projection based on a satirical extreme, obvious to any but those wearing blinkers or disingenuous to a ridiculous degree. But read on, MacDuff.

First of all we have the BBC blogs in general being 'improved' in ways few can seem to appreciate, then such as Mr Robinson's often starting at 11am and closing at 5pm, denying all but a few licence fee payers access to interaction. Then we have a 'strike' which knocks out an entire day's worth of anything. I don't see a refund in my bank account. Hence, dots were drawn. With an invitation to connect in complement.

On the matter of where that money goes, if not into new or current broadcast delivery, beyond Dad's Army repeats, the choices seem extensive, linky wise, from...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/bbc/7897113/BBC-Deputy-DG-Mark-Byford-in-line-for-400000-pension.html

...to...

https://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/sep/16/bbc-staff-should-grab-pensions-deal

Not being one of the 'richest pensioners the UK will come to know', though expected to chip in no matter what, this has made me treat developments across the media estate, public and private as they relate to each other, as a matter of interest.

Also, when my meagre pot seems to be accepted as fluctuating according to the vagaries of the the market, but the BBC's seem to be viewed as untouchable by some, especially when underperforming in areas often supported by editorial (and even admirable idealism) but not by reality. Expecting all to swallow beliefs is one thing, but to pay on top is injury to insult. Especially when one delves into who is controlling what, often at the same time.

In an era of falling incomes, a frozen one seems lucky, but still there is triage required. Hence as the obligations in one area seem gold-plated, the solution is to reduce services. Hence my comment:)

https://www.taxpayersalliance.com/media/2011/03/expresscouk-viewers-face-900m-bbc-staff-pension-bill.html

Apologies. That latter does of course quote from a red top (if not the sainted Daily Mirror) which of course some in the politico-media establishment wish to see selectively closed down, perhaps for some factual or ethical extremes that do need curbing, or... perhaps more for being a 'counter-balance' for a pan-media monopoly that dominates broadcast, and when referring to press on air seems more than keen on a rather niche quarter's views, when taken on ABC ratings as representative of public support (as opposed to Mr. Miliband's oft-quoted, but oddly ill-defined claims).

https://autonomousmind.wordpress.com/2011/02/18/the-disproportionate-influence-of-the-guardian-at-the-bbc/

'Media barons throughout history have abused their power, and we need some kind of counterbalance.'

A little intrigued that the BBC is openly seen as a 'counterbalance' to 'media barons' (the equally tax-dodging Graun being, er, 'different', and beyond reproach when such things are aired - https://order-order.com/2009/02/02/guardians-tax-hypocrisy-is-ridiculous/ . Especially as we earlier were supposed to be dealing in matters of fact. The edit suite is powerful, even if only in omission. Assuming this suggests the odd notion being put forward by some that extremes one way offset those in another (to a statistically neutral degree perhaps, if little else in practical terms), where do you see the extreme of the BBC to lie?

Careful now. A daintily spun conceit lies in the concept of 'balance' at the best of times, threatening an already shaky Charter obligation foundation.

'I do think that members of the BBC Trust should be elected though, on some kind of STV system, so that neither 'the great and the good', nor any political party can dominate.'

So... what exists now is less than ideal? And has been for a looooong time? But many still still feel criticism should not only be muted, but suppressed (or at least deemed 'snide'). Unless perhaps it's on terms some feel are 'suitable', in which case one is sure it is merely legitimate commentary.

Unique.

With Mr. Hart, may one suggest that a letter from a constituent is very old school. Get a few score together on twitter, and you'll get your way in a few weeks.

It's how everything, from sourcing news to spinning it into headlines, and hence changing policy is done now.

Who needs ballots?

Though, that baby already bumping down the street cobbles with the bathwater is looking less than a smart move.

https://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/jul/16/rupert-murdoch-ed-miliband-phone-hacking

https://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jul/15/rupert-murdoch-daily-mail-paul-dacre

The next Newsnight 'guest list' writes itself. And the numbers watching, though small, pale even a few score twitter mob.

If any of those links above are factually incorrect, one is sure a BBC one can be provided by way of 'balance'.

SOUL PROPRIETOR

I just watched Nick Clegg with Andrew Marr. WE GOT OURSELVES ANOTHER ONE.

Nick - it seems - is 'INCREDIBLY' (that telling Dave word) troubled by powerful groups who SELF-REGULATE. None so blind. (Nick was one of the many points of westminster contact WHO DID NOT REPLY regarding the Liar Flyer. Why? BECAUSE HE IS UNREGULATED.

Nick said: "I don't want to live in a country where politicians feel comfotable with the press." AS FOR THE PUNTERS: CLEARLY, HE IS NOT BOVVERED.

SPOIL COALITION GAMES - NO SOULLESS POLITICIANS

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/journalists/andrew-gilligan/8642659/British-jobs-gone-with-the-wind.html

SOME WOMAN RANG THE BBC AND SAID THAT A TSUNAMI IS ON ITS WAY!

What hope is there for us if America is driven to the brink of meltdown?
https://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jul/17/obama-america-economic-meltdown-murdoch

The American version is here...

What Happened to the $2.6 Trillion Social Security Trust Fund?
https://blogs.forbes.com/merrillmatthews/2011/07/13/what-happened-to-the-2-6-trillion-social-security-trust-fund/

THE OLD SAVE THE POUND PLOY - BILLY THE SPUD TRIED THAT (#47)

I think Americans should tell Obiwan that they are FULLY COMMITTED in fighting War on Terror, coming from all points of the compass (and space) 24/7/52. He will just have to fix Armageddon on his own.

YES HE CAN. (Use the Force Barack.)

Just posted this on the observer following Will huttons Article above.. one has to keep trying..

There are a lot of people in denial concerning the economic situation in western democracies.

Whether the catastrophic scenario Will Hutton paints come to pass in the next week, I have my doubts and we will find out soon enough.

Even if it does not occur ‘next week’ until such time as the rug is pulled out from under the 'growth' myth we will continue on a path of self-destruction, whether that occurs next week or next year or the next 3 years is the only question.

Why?

Well, it is so simple a child can understand it, yet, it seems beyond any mainstream politician economist or (in the main) journalist.

Significant growth is no longer possible in high technology western democracies, certainly there can not be enough growth to pay off the debts. Few people realise that those debts are actually peoples pensions, pension funds are the biggest buyers of government and large corporate debt, if those debts do not get paid your pension goes up in smoke….

Have I got your attention now?

So why can’t we grow anymore to pay off our debts?

Well, we make things and do things so efficiently now (thanks to technology) that we don’t need many people to work to provide it in the west. It only takes the labour of a few people to feed thousands for example, it is a similar story for all other essentials.

We can still provide those high technology goods and services to the developing world and 'grow' ourselves that way... except the developing world can do most of it themselves now and more cheaply, the developing world is also constrained by commodity prices, they are finding it hard to grow because every time they do oil, copper and steel prices go through the roof because we don’t have enough of those things for everyone to live to western democracy standards... so that’s out as a mechanism for growth.

The other option is to borrow money and buy loads of 'stuff' to create a false internal market which keeps people employed.... except we have reached the limits of our borrowing.

In a nutshell we can no longer grow because we are too efficient, thereare too many of us and the world does not have enough resources for everyone to live to western standards no matter how hard we try to 'grow'.

It is not difficult to understand or appreciate the simple logical truth of this.
Yet listen to any politician or economist and they will say 'we must restore growth'.

King Canute would be proud of them.

When growth is no longer possible there are only 3 simple options, they are.

a) War or pandemic or some other catastrophe to reset the infrastructure and population clock so that there is capacity to grow again after a period of chaos and extreme suffering in rebuilding it all again....

Any takers?

b) Change the global economic model from a growth to a throughput model, a large re-distribution of wealth and debt write off would be needed to do this initially…

Sounds good?.. wonder why you never hear about that one?

c) This is really only a 'slow burn' version of a) and b) where, steadily over time living standards drop, there are numerous skirmishes over resources (e.g. oil) while this is going on, many people starve to death as energy and food become concentrated and protected by the most powerful, there is mass economic migration and countries struggle under the strain.

Eventually this could lead to b) via the democratic process if we do not tip over into a) at any time during that process.

It really is that simple and there are no other options.

The best option for humanity is to be proactive about it (option b), we can use our technology, remaining energy reserves and relative political stability to build an economic model based on throughput not growth. Under such a model all the basics would be provided 'free' for everyone irrespective of status and the rest (the unecesarry stuff) could be traded as before in a market economy.. There can still be rich and poor, celebrity innovation and diversity but not off the back of basic human needs.

What we are experiencing and will continue to experience at the moment is option c), anyone could recognise the criteria in option c which are already present and could tip over into something really nasty at any time.. like next week for example if the US don’t roll over their debt (increasing at the rate of $12,000 per second).

The above simple truthful unleveraged assessment is almost never debated or put forward in mainstream media or by influential corporations or governments. I guess this is so because of the vested interest, the huge power and wealth is held by relatively few people who’s position depends on the status quo continuing.

What they need to wake up to is that if it does not change it will end badly anyway for everyone, including them and their children.

We are offering no intelligent inheritance to our kids at this point, every time I hear the word 'growth' uttered by the powers that be I feel physically sick with worry for my children.

Growth is great up to a point, then it becomes cancerous, in economic terms growth is no longer the answer to our woes it is the very thing which is killing us.

junkmail's criticism of the BBC reminds me nothing so much as the deliberate, Thatcher-era use of the media to demoralise Public services. First there are cuts in the budgets, which the staff then have to work around, plus often overt interference (such as having obviously politically-motivated 'appointments', did i mention Patten?), and THEN the "free press" wade in with horror stories culled from this deliberate program of Public disenchantment.

ultimately, the 'ground-work' is built for the intended privatisation process.

however, this month, *i'm* pretty sure most of the UK's populace are *VERY* glad they still have a Public-Broadcaster, and are not just in the claws of News-Corp and the Mail.

the BBC's budget is vastly smaller than the combined budgets of the "private" media groups, yet it is claimed it is "developing a monopoly". Perhaps that is because of its Quality output? Granted, there are serious flaws, and "Extras" covered one such quite tellingly, but the greatest problems for the BBC is the overt Political interference it gets from the Govt - the constant threats and intimidations, even the oft-repeated threat to sell the whole Publicly-owned body to one "Rupert Murdoch"!!


as for the BBCs supposed "left-wing bias", it is mainly seen as such when compared to the vapid right-wing-nut press, who have led the fight for cuts, for kkkorporate control, for lower taxes on the wealthy (such as their owners), and for all the wars, invasions, and global-destructive policies that have brought even the US to the brink of calamity.

in fact, the BBC is probably closer to the majority of the UKs population on most issues, as can be seen clearly at Question-time - funnily enough something Sky never implemented as a program-structure itself, despite its obvious popularity. Actually *knowing* what the Public think was never the aim of Murdoch, he has always been more interested in *creating* what they think, and cared not for integrity, or honesty.

so the BBC, despite a vastly smaller budget, creates more quality media than the Private platforms, and this gives it an "advantage". Clearly then, it must immediately be attacked, have its budget reduced even further, face constant attacks from the Govt, to demoralise it and reduce its Quality - and then Fox/Sky/Mail can "compete" on "equal grounds".

perhaps the BBC should quickly employ a private investigator or two, to hack into someone's privacy, and lose that extra "moral edge" it currently has, just to make a "more level playing field", against those poor victims of Public outrage, Mail and Murdoch.

it'd be the decent thing to do. And afterwards, the journalist in charge can go and work for adenoid-less Milliband. Just for the symmetry.


this has been a black fortnight for those who seek to use hatred to control Public discourse and policy, who seek to use fear, racism, intimidation and blackmail, who seek to derail the UK's momentum towards a decent Society. So i am hardly surprised at the backlash from that small segment of Islamophobes and hate-mongers that exists, even though i AM disappointed by it.

nevermind, can't have everything! Though **MUCHOS RESPECT** to the Lib-Dems (i wonder if Milliband will also jump on this wagon?), who are still carrying on the fight to have Ofcom look at the BSkyB current ownership, and its "fitness for purpose".

who knows, maybe they WILL have a place after the next election!! :)

ALL PART OF THE TRIUMPH OF CLEVER OVER WISE (#49)

Only social stasis, with a capacity for resourceful REactivity to environmental change, is sustainable. At an animal level, that would appear to be what we are designed for. Clever man, in easy times, unconstrained, runs the risk of becoming PROactive; invention + technology are typical. Viable (wise) communities (The Kogi, old Tibet, South American indigenes - say) had strong taboos to counter cancerous cleverness.

An excellent hypotheses for how we went wrong, if found in 'The Master and His Emissary' - a drift from a yin/yang balance of R and L brain, to rampant L brain goals, and measures of success. The L brain, at best, discounts the R - at worst, eclipses it all together. THEN THERE IS NO GOING BACK.

The Westminster Malaise is a L brain construct. Westminster will solve noting and will go down lying to us AND TO THEMSELVES.

In the Age of (L brain) Perversity, politics is the art of self-deception, wrapped in the craft of deceiving others for their own good.

Houston - we have a problem. And we are all out of Gaffer Tape.

LIES, DAMNED LIES and THE BBC? (#50)

Mork - a thought: is it not easier to remember you are down the rabbit hole when reading a 'news' paper, than it is when being lulled by the BBC (failing to remember what a rewarding acronym that is).

Question time is Waste Of Time, unless a rare a-political iconoclast gets on the panel And the political interviews are close to bland. (Marr pointed out to Clegg he was not answering the question - Clegg acknowledge and DIDN'T ANSWER THE QUESTION.

Finally: no part of the BBC will take up the Liar Flyer issue - documentary proof that the Conservative Party produced a False Instrument, used in 2010 by MPs now sitting in Parliament. PUBLIC SERVICE MY EYE. The entire matrix of functionality in Britain is corrupt. They live within the lie.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

an unfortunately realistic view of the "hackergate" episode, and the long-term implications by a crew who have regularly taken the BBC to task for bias in its own reporting, the superb MediaLens:

https://medialens.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=640:the-world-is-changing-hyperbolic-media-on-news-corp-the-free-press-and-a-berlin-wall-moment&catid=24:alerts-2011&Itemid=68

oddly, they don't mention any expected "BBC Monopoly", i wonder why? But they do talk gravely about how unlikely it is that our political class WAS entirely unaware of what was happening, no matter how lily-white they are portraying themselves now.

good for brown to come back and rage, rage at the Murdoch Empire. What a shame it took normal MPs and Citizens, such as Hugh Grant and former BBC presenter Alan Partridge* amongst a few largely unsung others, incredible stamina and bravery to take on News Corp until eventually they managed to force the issue, and break this grip of fear.

imho, at *least* Hugh Grant should be invited onto the Media Committee-panel, to provided the long-experience, evidence and sheer fighting-spirit to challenge the trio.


*and may i say Alan P. has clearly gone through some personal changes since his last show! :o

#52: don't recall saying the BBC is perfect, Barry.

and QT is unique in the world, and very much admired by other countries Publics. If the other political leaders, milliband, osborne, cameron would come on QT (just as the brave leaders Alex Salmond and Caroline Lucas do), and FACE THE PUBLIC also, it would be even better. The UKs population is FAR smarter than the 6yr old intended age of the UK tabloid reader, and on that Show this is demonstrated every single week.

personally, i am usually heart-warmed by seeing the Public on the show, and frankly, for the last few years (if not before), then the information stream is FROM the Public to the politicians - anyone else remember how the Public "talked back" during the MPs Bonus Scandal?? I bet Marge B. does.

The BBC provides a (largely) intelligent service. It cannot make *everyone* happy, but it tries to give *something* for every group.

and whatever else you might say of the BBC compared to Sky/Sun, it is not deliberately dumbing-down the population to gain "market-share", profits above intelligent, reasoned discussion. Unlike...

Euro Mess

Mr Clegg told the BBC on Sunday that the crisis is "immensely serious".

"This has a direct impact on British jobs and the livelihood of people in this country," he said.

"I believe we should play an active role behind the scenes, because we are not a member of the euro, to help eurozone members make the reforms necessary to make a strong, prosperous eurozone in the future.

Do you suppose he means by us helping buying up the bad debt indirectly ?

On a broader Euro issue , I am taken back by a report on Reuters Canada , it ends with these words -
"But the European Commission's country director for Ireland said last week that if Dublin needed a second bailout it could be achieved without private-sector participation because, unlike Greece, the Irish debt was manageable."

Does the UK have an appointed EU Governor , sorry I mean Director , too ?

ULTIMATELY WE ALL COME TO LOVE BIG BROTHER (#55)

Nuff sed

I'll have to step carefully here, as one who has demanded our trust before claims to have friends in hi... well, 'places'. If true rather proving a point on a worrying trend.

My dear old Mum used to tell me that courtesy costs nothing, so I am pleased at least to have mastered cut and paste to avoid even the odd unintentional petty slight. Because the converse is also true, and its lack can prove very degrading, especially if subsequent argument is to be taken as more than tribal posturing masquerading as debate.

50. At 15:12 17th Jul 2011, Mindys_Housemate:
JunkkMale's criticism of the BBC reminds me nothing so much as the deliberate, Thatcher-era use of the media to demoralise Public services.

Blimey. Back to Maggie in the first line? Amazed 'Daily Mail reader' was not deployed too, to get a cheer from the cheap seats.

I was challenged (by another, if soul-mate) to proffer URLs. I did so. Now the facts are not enough. Fealty is demanded.

*i'm* pretty sure most of the UK's populace are *VERY* glad they still have a Public-Broadcaster, and are not just in the claws of News-Corp and the Mail

Oops, I stand corrected. the Mail is in there. In passing, as the BBC are keen to pass on things that serve, and along with Mr. Miliband often alluding to those they speak for, as demanded above of me any stats to back up 'most of the UK's populace are *VERY* glad they still have a Public-Broadcaster', as opposed to more being pretty down on the NoTW, NI and news media in general? It's not like we have had anything else served up to the same degree... as yet.

'the BBC's budget is vastly smaller than the combined budgets of the "private" media groups, yet it is claimed it is "developing a monopoly".

Speaking of stats, combine anything and anything else may look less imposing, relatively speaking. However, £3.5Bpa, secured by guaranteed funding, no matter what, piped out over TV, radio, online and print, doesn't seem to have many equals.

'..even the oft-repeated threat to sell the whole Publicly-owned body to one "Rupert Murdoch"!!'

New one on me, but OK.

'...as for the BBCs supposed "left-wing bias", it is mainly seen as such when compared to the vapid right-wing-nut press..

Being non-wingist, one may feel being vapid is rather tame. Usually the terminology is more hyperbolic on the threat side. But kudos for ironic lack of self-awareness of being blinded by the heat of your position if seeking to also illuminate.

'..in fact, the BBC is probably closer to the majority of the UKs population on most issues..

If you say so, though a linky would be nice as a basis... in fact (actual, vs. saying it making it so). For Sasha Clarkson's sake if nowt else.

'..as can be seen clearly at Question-time'

Again, this may depend on the point from which viewing. Like a Newsnight 'group', or indeed oddly context lite guest invitees from 'the public', some feel such folk are perhaps less than representative of anyone public, or even those who are politically aware. Though I do look forward to the Chairman being joined by his brothers should the topic of nepotism in high places ever be raised.

So i am hardly surprised at the backlash from that small segment of Islamophobes and hate-mongers that exists...

Care to specify? Or best to keep things vague? Must say I have have found the sober reflection, rancourless objectivity and calm pursuit of only the truth, and proven guilt to have been the watchword of all in this so far.

'''.maybe they WILL have a place after the next election!!

If there is one. Many seem to feel twitter, within 24hrs, is a preferable instrument of democratic process by those who know better.

'... don't recall saying the BBC is perfect, Barrie.

It would be a stretch. We may have to agree to differ on the objectivity of the QT bear-pit.

whatever else you might say of the BBC compared to Sky/Sun, it is not deliberately dumbing-down the population to gain "market-share", profits above intelligent, reasoned discussion.

Again we may have to diverge. Market share is how market rates get measured, so ratings do drive decisions. Profits are of course not an issue, but as to 'reasoned discussion', if only singing praises is what's demanded in the face of what is delivered (or not, back to the closings down and unique no-refund strike days), then as a fellow compelled, no-option stakeholder (a slight difference to... all others), tough.

57. At 17:19 17th Jul 2011, barriesingleton wrote:
ULTIMATELY WE ALL COME TO LOVE BIG BROTHER (#55)

Careful, some claim to know folk who still work there.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/newsnight/fromthewebteam/2011/07/wednesday_13_july_2011.html?postId=109681497

Trust me.

CIA veteran: Israel to attack Iran in fall
https://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/07/201171775828434786.html

A longtime CIA officer who spent 21 years in the Middle East is predicting that Israel will bomb Iran in the fall, dragging the United States into another major war and endangering US military and civilian personnel (and other interests) throughout the Middle East and beyond.

Top police chief resigns over hacking scandal

https://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/07/17/uk-newscorp-police-idUKTRE76G27320110717

ADDITIONALLY (#60)

America goes broke. The money tide goes out on Israel. They cannot afford a long war. A couple of nukes?

Of course - Britain would find some aid money.

I'll get me fallout pills.

Sir Paul Stephenson resigns: this is grave news for David Cameron
https://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/damianthompson/100097264/sir-paul-stephenson-resigns-this-is-grave-news-for-david-cameron/

"I can’t believe I am even writing this, but it is no longer an impossibility to imagine this scandal bringing down the Prime Minister or even the government. OK, some of you reading this may think that last sentence is a deranged ranting, and you may be right. Indeed, I hope you are. But Sir Paul Stephenson launched a thinly veiled attack on David Cameron in his resignation statement and the Prime Minister is already on the ropes about the propriety of his relationship with Andy Coulson."

This story has gone global already...the US is picking up on it fast due to the time zone diff

trust Facebook??

https://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/07/12/us-law-enforcement-obtain-warrants-to-search-facebook-profiles/?intcmp=obinsite

nice- if unbelievably scary - link at #59, JJ. The fact that it is ISRAELI intelligence officers who are warning about it - WARNING!!! - is the only shred of hope there. If the hawks in Israeli society are terrified, THEY can do something about it.

it is too much to hope the EU could put pressure on (they are feeble even in response to genocide in Gaza), and the US is almost beyond hope.


netanyahoo and ahMADinadjad have entirely similar aims - a terrifying gamble to protect their 'careers', that will only destroy both Nations. They would only do this if they can see no other way out for themselves, indicating a vast Public antipathy to both men in their respective countries. More hope, if Time permits.


#57: rather a 'balancing of threats'. The BBC bias is overt, and generally towards morality. The kkkorporate bias is largely hidden, and is absolutely ANYTHING except benign. NOR are we anywhere near a "State Monopoly" on information, but we ARE perilously close to a "KKKorporate Monopoly", and that seems be me to be the current potent threat to UK democracy.

Big Brother? Who do *YOU* scream your daily "minute of hate" at? ...a Revealing question, eh?

#62: two words, "nuclear blackmail". Israel had no possible conventional threat from its neighbours when it began its Nuclear Weapons program, so what do you think it is REALLY aimed at achieving?

in terms of gaining Nuclear weaponry, ahMADinadjad comes bottom of the list. But below him in trustability, are those Leaders who already have Nukes.

It was the intention on Friday to write the last (Don’t cry, please!) of the trio of - news reporting - pastiches by using a comparison of a military tactic most prominent during the Napoleonic wars against a current political ‘predicament’. Fundamentally the battlefield necessity to ‘Save the Colours!’ whatever the onslaught.

Sadly the ‘maneuvers’ this weekend are moving far faster than I can type but the basic concept still applies ........ ‘Save the Colours! Whatever the sacrifice!’

But just whom represents the ‘colours’?

The comparative now is that there are are only two squaddies left to protect the prize!

Whom will be sacrificed next? He that will cost a lot more than three million plus in compensation or he whom could help to ‘bring in’ a forever replenishing pot of gold?

So, here are some questions ....

Will the Puppeteer cut the strings of the well practiced marionette or will family ties prove the stronger bond?

Did - as said today on the BBC 1’s AM show this morning - a ‘big boss’ recommend a ‘minion’ for employment by an ‘Even Bigger Boss’?

Is the whole contemporary ‘George Dixon’ ‘ishoo’ a diversionary ‘tactic’? And if so by whom? (Perhaps ..... and with whom?)

Did the UK domiciliary secretariat have anything - anything at all - to do with the decision to arrest an individual? (By appointment !!!!!) whom was once untouchable?

Is it pure coincidence that someone - pretty important apparently - has just left the UK? Will he be back in this country by, say, Tuesday? If not, why not?

Why is a certain - contemporary - Mr R Whittington saying that ‘it is time to turn over some of these stone ..... ‘ to reveal what’s going on? Is there a particular reason why he is not asking for all of these rhetorical ‘stones’ to be turned?



A penultimate thought ...... Saturday’s ‘Dateline London’ .... Indian sub-continent media questions the long term ‘survivability’ of a certain person based upon the individual’s judgement and political acumen.

Maybe they listened to the plea ......

Lead, don’t follow!

Or perhaps they know the mantra .....

Follow the money!

Final thought .....

343.

We've been told that Sir Paul Stephenson recorded his stay at Champneys in the Commissioner’s Gifts and ­Hospitality Register, but I haven't heard one question from any interviewer on BBC or Sky ask - who gets to see this Register? Is it for public view, or only for internal consumption. No conspiracy thoughts here. Would just like to know for the purposes of openness. Could someone in the news media please ask and report?

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

https://www.ukprogressive.co.uk/vast-left-wing-anti-murdoch-fox-conspiracy/article13423.html


just watched John Pilger's documentary 'The War You Don't See' again, if there is anyone out there who hasn't seen it yet, v. recommended.


revealing discussion from a few months ago, perhaps:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/newsnight/fromthewebteam/2011/02/tuesday_1_february_2011.html

[Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]

for those who missed the big event. I wonder if Stephen Lennon still thinks that Shariah Law is imminently taking over the UK? Still, he got invited onto NN. Perhaps the key to being invited is holding quite silly views and airing them in public??

[no, i'd be a presenter by now if so... would explain a lot though!!]


...i'll try harder. :/

;o) Far more important news:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2015805/The-orgasm-lasts-FOUR-months--achieving-involves-keeping-clothes-turning-lights.html

The phrase of the moment seems to be 'questions are being asked'.

Interesting what they are, by whom. And what not, also by whom.

Then there is the not small matter of answers.

Proffer a bunch on demand, but ask a few in return, and things suddenly move on.

Unique.

DERANGED RANTING R US - AND REPETITION! (#63)

And what if arrogant Cameron SHOULD fall? The abscess that is Westminster will endure, seeping its feudal toxins into the body politic, thence law, media and society as a whole.

Our ills arise from the ever-present tendency to 'go bad', given the right conditions (Zimbardo/Milgram). This, combined with a Westminster Ethos that epitomises those very conditions, and DRAWS ITS OWN, elevates to power the very individuals who should be proscribed. Cameron is simply a pimple on the GIGANTIC WESTMINSTER BOIL.

EXCISE WESTMINSTER - REMOVE THE SOURCE OF INFECTION

...Even Lord Glasman (he was on NN a few weeks ago), who is one of Ed Miliband's top advisors, states that immigration should be frozen...
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/8643584/Immigration-should-be-frozen-says-Miliband-adviser.html

Actually, I share Junkk's concern about the Beeb's effective near-monopoly on UK television news. The Beeb does it's best, sometimes better, sometimes worse, but it cannot help but be biassed towards the status-quo and the 'great and the good'.

Before satellite broadcasting and freeview, the Beeb was counterbalanced by ITN working with a very healthy ITV local news network. However, the rise of Sky, based largely on its sports near-monopoly, has wrecked the financial basis of ITV and compromised its ability to provide public service broadcasting.

So what's the answer? An unregulated media market will lead to TV/media barons like Murdoch and Berlusconi. Individuals who get that kind of power inevitably abuse it. Market forces will not ensure that the public gets the reliable information necessary for democracy to function. Also, events over recent years have shown that the BBC does not always make best use of its funds. There is no excuse for 6 figure salaries to be paid to "stars" like Woss, themselves created by the Beeb. If they want to go to fill their boots, let them. There will always be others anxious to fill their shoes.

Satellite TV needs to be more tightly regulated. The sports monopoly should be broken up, and people should be allowed to subscribe PER-CHANNEL. That in itself might redress the imbalances. If not, a small, say 5%, proportion of the Licence fee should be diverted to subsidising the threatened ITV regional news network, and the ITN, with a view to enabling a properly resourced alternative to the BBC news channel which does NOT have its headquarters in London.

FREEZING WOULD CONTAIN THE ERROR - BUT WE ARE DUE A HOT SPELL . . . (#73)

I sampled London on Saturday. When 'austerity' - aka unemployment, homelessness and associated anger - bites, only gated-communities and sociologists will smile.

Wisdom and courage are needed. Wisdom has left the theatre, and 'courage', as explained by Sir Humphry, is party political suicide. 'End of', as Incredible Cameron is wont to say. While we look to Westminster's adversarial politicking, for skilled management in difficult times, we are headed for strife.

come on NN this are serious times and only the Grauniad, the Indy and your owngoodselves at NN are providing the running for this tide of corruption to be exposed, so no 2 day week for Jeremy, I want him in every night please as with Crick as they are on the frontline, we have a PM doing one to SA rather face the hostiles and a parliamentary recess looming all very convenient for the long grass men so you at NN be ever vigilant...a nation expects and all that....

"SO WHAT'S THE ANSWER?" - I PRESUME A FLOOD IS OUT OF THE QUESTION? (#74)

How about we engender wisdom in the young - over and above all else?

To bend a quote: "They cannot then be fooled by any man."

FIVE DAY JEREMY! (#76)

Are you mad! There would be no money left for artistic embellishment of news. Do you REALLY want pure information, facts, concise cogent reports and GRAVITAS?

NN would not even be able to pay for the terrible triplets. Consider THAT!

@75 - I have the perfect slogan to promote your friendly local gated community:

YOU TOO CAN LIVE IN FEAR!

@ Stevie #76 What a fantastic idea - 5 days of Jeremy a week :o)

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

#78/#80 - now if Sky owned the BBC, there would be Newsnight Channel, showing eternal repeats. Then NewsNight+1, with the same repeats but an hour later. Later, there would be "Paxman Newsnight Highlights", followed by "Warkian Newsnight Highighlights" - both soon followed by the one-hour-delay channels.


the ultimate service of course, will be having the ENTIRE NewsNight back catalogue open to viewing, where the viewer can cut/paste sections, build their own show, and broadcast it through the iplayer for other viewers. And whilst they are doing that, they can have Afternoon Tea and Scones served up by Emily.

;)

Berlin Working on Plans for Greek Debt Cut
https://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,775014,00.html

"Officials in Germany's Finance Ministry are analyzing several models for paring down Greece's debt burden to a more tolerable size. They are aiming to reduce its debt to about 120 percent of GDP. In absolute terms, this would involve relieving the country of roughly €70 billion ($99 billion) in debt. "We are searching through our entire arsenal for a fundamental solution to the problem," said one official close to Finance Minister Wolfgang Schäuble."

I don't think they have quite exhausted the entire arsenal.

Think back to the 1930's when Germany found itself in precisely the same predicament. How did they identify the root cause and rectify the situation? What did they repudiate that so upset the banking cabal in the West? How did they completely turn their economy around from basket case of Europe to the strongest within 4 years?

All was not necessarily what it seemed.

#81 repost:

Thursday 14 July 2011

Posting:

#74 sasha: actually i hear from many people that channel4 news is very watchable, more than the politically-interfered-with BBC. Unfortunately, i work at that time of day, so never get to see it to compare. Am i aware the BBC is often biased? Of course i [bleep]y well am, i've spent enough time, especially during the various "foreign/war reports" pulling my hair out at the screen as "The Official Message" gets hammered home at the exclusion of the 'natives' POV - or even just simple rational common sense/morality.

would i want a media completely dominated by Govt control, control as specific and targeted as rupert murdoch's networks? Of course not, and i wish *i* owned BSkyB so i could offer NN and other BBC shows the chance to be proper Journalists, free from all political interference, editorial control, and the threat of firing for being too accurate at the expense of the powerful.

i also certainly agree with you that much of the so-called "talent" was invisible to the discerning viewer, although much was made if it in the boardrooms - no doubt because the "talents" incomes could give more credibility to the BBC boardroom salaries.

i am equally sure that the very same goes on in the Private media corporations - except THERE, the Public is told in no uncertain terms that it "is none of their business".

the dangers in allowing the BSkyB media platform, that will easily out-monopolise the BBC in a very few years (for starters, controlling the cable networks underlying much of the UKs internet, allowing them to end Net-Neutrality and decide what YOU should be able to access on-line, secondly, even the BBC is moving towards TV-on-demand (the IPlayer) which means even more reliance upon the cable networks and their charges, and thirdly - the far-right Press, in alliance with the Murdoch media, have been attempting to hamstring the light-blue BBC for decades, knowing full well that it is one last bastion before the UK can be turned into an Australia: https://www.newstatesman.com/international-politics/2010/03/pilger-australia-murdoch-media

- so allowing BSkyB be entirely under the control of ONE noted extreme-right kkkorporation, is absolute lunacy, looking into the future. As much as there is a danger of the Govt-controlled media (the BBC) dominating the news, there is also the danger of KKKorporate controlled news.

in fact, here's the rub: for those who haven't put it all together yet, what the Govt wanted the media to show, Rupee also wanted the media to show. No criticism of wars, no discussion of the destruction if the welfare state, but cheer-leading for fascism all the way.

what is *really* needed is a way for journalists to be free of control, AND also to be accountable for what they publish.

when there is such collusion, connivance, and kkkorporate rimming between the politicians who control the State media and the far-right moguls who control the Private media, then where do the normal citizens turn?

well, to the internet. Which is also where Sky's near-monopoly on Sports will be challenged. --Which is also why Sky is now fighting net-neutrality, so it can prevent you from watching sites Sky's owners don't approve of, or sports sites that challenge their commercial monopoly.

--its a very complex picture, much more complex than simply "BBC Monopoly Uck!!". And btw, the Pilger documentary i mentioned earlier is *extremely* critical of the BBC, and its behaviour during the Bush/Blair years. I am no "BBC drone", but i WILL fight tooth-and-nail to prevent the UK turning into the vacuous, heartless, far-right military camp envisaged by the Bilderbergers and other Fascist groups.


#70, mistress: excellent link!! Do you not think it would be a better world/country if such courses were offered at normal adult colleges, perhaps even an 'A'-level course? Why do we teach the utter imbecilities ("Cleaning NVQs" f'X'sake!!), but not the important things, sensuality, concern, compassion, good management/organising (the complete *opposite* to "the Apprentice", and most of all - how to be good parents.

what is WRONG with us???? :/

Note the similarities of stance being advocated by this person in todays Telegraph


Immigration should be frozen, says Miliband adviser
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/8643584/Immigration-should-be-frozen-says-Miliband-adviser.html


And point no. 8 of The 25-point Program of the NSDAP (click [show] on the RHS)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialist_Program

#83 muse: "Think back to the 1930's when Germany found itself in precisely the same predicament. How did they identify the root cause and rectify the situation? What did they repudiate that so upset the banking cabal in the West? How did they completely turn their economy around from basket case of Europe to the strongest within 4 years?"

Germany repudiated Peace, and agreed to militarise, with UK and US private bank capital supporting them, with the intention of invading Russia. The massive investment of finance capital allowed Germany to lower unemployment, to build roads, munitions factories, auto-mobile plants, increase their armies - and also build concentration camps. Ultimately, it led to the Holocausts we now call WW2.

Was it that you were talking about, or the repudiation of the 'Reparations' the French forced upon them after WW1?


now, if the latter, i can certainly see your point - and it is even clearer with regards to most of the current '3rd World', which is continued to be enslaved by debts to Western Banks. Some countries receive aid money because they are so desperately poor - and that entire aid money is immediately taken by the banksters in repayments.

millions of people are STARVING TO DEATH, so that bankers can add another nought onto their private, tax-haven bank accounts.

and these bankers are the same people who are driving the UK into debt slavery, along with Greece, Ireland, Portugal...

the only ones to have refused so far are the Íslendingar, who are notably absent in the financial press/discussions about the Euro/national debt crises.

just like in law/order debates, we rarely hear from the countries that spend less per-capita on Law/Order, but have less crime, criminals and prisoners. Instead, we only hear from countries with openly failed and corrupt policies, such as the US.

unfortunately, for those who believe they rule us, and DO have control over us, what ACTUALLY WORKS is the opposite of what makes them personally rich and powerful, luckily for them, we don't actually live in democracies.


and the Murdoch's make sure we don't hear the truths needed to make good judgements.

@84 I largely agree with you. There is good case for Sky to be broken up, and the content separated from the service provider. In fact, there is a good case for ALL media empires to be broke up, as "against the public interest"

Pilger mentioned Murdoch owned Harper Collins. This publisher has a record of giving lucrative book contracts to some politicians when they leave office. This wouldn't matter if it weren't part of a media empire which tries to make the news, rather than just reporting on it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Its_The_Sun_Wot_Won_It

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

#73

“He said New Labour was "almost Maoist" in its approach to modernisation. “

LOL , was that a reference to Chairman Mao cultural revolution then ?

Yates has just resigned as well!

Some may think the value of Sir Paul Stephenson's "freebie" to be trivial, but it is more than many full time care workers (for example) earn in a year.

mods, #88 & #89 should NOT have been censored, i'm SO sorry if they would have offended some senior politicians, but it should not be your task to defend their poor little egos.

frankly, i'm getting very tired of having to work around the BBCs often apparently random censoring, especially when so many of the topics are very serious indeed, and have even more serious long-term implications.

Labour put up with far more criticism than these Tories do. Or is it simply that the Tories HATE the public so much they cannot bear listening to uncensored opinions from them?

either way, it is very noticeable that media-censorship has increased since the Tories came to power.

sasha, i agreed with your earlier points and added more. But i don't want to spend hours trying to find out what specific thing the mods are disagreeing with the posts about.

'93. At 14:56 18th Jul 2011, Mindys_Housemate:
mods, #88 & #89 should NOT have been censored,

It can be frustrating. Suggesting a problem with the system? Maybe a private word, using that inside track?

'frankly, i'm getting very tired of having to work around the BBCs often apparently random censoring, especially when so many of the topics are very serious indeed, and have even more serious long-term implications.

Welcome to the world of many.

'it is very noticeable that media-censorship has increased since the Tories came to power.'

One is sure only pre-empting Sasha_Clarkson* here, but care to clarify, and substantiate, with evidence/links? For basis in factual reasons, you understand.

*92. At 14:55 18th Jul 2011, Sasha Clarkson - excellent point. Any justifications around this are just exercises in hole digging.

ignoring the trolls and the mods, i'll give it another go:

--------------

Thursday 14 July 2011

rePosting #88:

#85:
from your first link:

"Immigration has been thrust back on to the political agenda by both Labour and the Conservatives.

In a speech earlier this month Iain Duncan Smith, the Work and Pensions Secretary, said mass immigration poses the biggest threat to the Coalition's attempts to get millions of people off benefits as foreign workers take low paid jobs."

i think this summarises everything needing saying. BOTH main parties have attempted to take the heat off Murdoch this month, and BOTH main parties think the greatest problem with the UK economy is that UK workers are refusing to work 50+ hour weeks for £100.

migrant workers will bunk 6 to a room, so they can accept lower wages. Travelling, i've done it myself. Its OK for a season or two.

the far-right [bleep]s, and in Govt, are trying to make that a permanent part of British life AGAIN - less than 70 years since the great Liberal reforms led to the creation of the Welfare State.

poverty, disease, homelessness, squalor and unemployment were normal for the vast majority of British people throughout the ages, whilst the small minority lived lives of unparalleled luxury. The Welfare State shifted that *ever so slightly*, the National Health Service, the local Corporation-built Council homes (not to be confused with kkkorporates, btw!), unemployment benefits, national old-age pensions, child benefits, - and most of all, the expectation the wealthy would pay their part. After all, their wealth mainly comes from exploiting others, either their labour, or their "rents".

now, cleverly (OHHH!!! so cleverly!!) these reforms are being deliberately turned back - and the [bleep]ards doing it are attempting to blame the even poorer migrants, rather than their own very deliberate policies of "cuts in services to pay the bankers debts".

similarities between the 1930s policies, and today? You betcha. But NOT what neo-nazis may want the Public to believe.

at least THIS time the Public have the internet to bypass the fascist press with, they do not have to accept "austerity", which can only - IS ONLY INTENDED TO - destroy the basis of our even slightly humane society.

i'm amazed Osbo hasn't yet come out and directly claimed "immigrants are causing the austerity" - that's probably to come.

ANYTHING than admit who is REALLY causing the problems. And after all, it is hard for migrant workers to hit back in the media. Perfect, innit?

repost #89:

Thursday 14 July 2011

Posting:

#87 Sasha: "There is good case for Sky to be broken up, and the content separated from the service provider. In fact, there is a good case for ALL media empires to be broke up, as "against the public interest"".

couldn't say a word against that. :)


on this oft-repeated claim that "politicians do what Murdoch wants because they are afraid of him" its only partly true. Certainly, for the moral minority in Parliament it is true, people like simon hughes, apparently. But for many, it is an absolute white-wash of the truth. The truth is, they had largely identical interests with Murdoch - or at least similar goals - and this excuse was their way of passing the blame for policies they intended anyway.

"not our fault Guv, it was that nasty newspaper proprietor".


the mendacity of most "aspiring" politicians absolutely knows no bounds.

this is certainly not to claim that Murdoch had no effect - of course he did - just that many who have tried to blame him for their own far-right policies are actually quite happy with those policies they implemented, or *have tried* to implement against massive Public pressure.

"i didn't really want to have shoplifters executed, or to close every library in the country, or slash benefits to the poorest, or to put migrants into shower blocks - but if i didn't Murdoch would have been angry with me." - pathetic. And even worse when they DO agree with those policies, but are hiding behind the media-mogul!

this is one HUGE benefit now, from this scandal - that will have been rocked for a while. Of course, there is always the Mail for closet right-wing politicians still to blame...

One has to wonder if George Orwell ever applied his skills with analogy to the inhabitants of Nordic wastelands or even Hogwarts' basements?

Best perhaps, like so much, to leave that line of inquiry ignored.

If it doesn't suit.

There's a lot of it about.

However, having had answers demanded, and happily so provided, it seems now (with due deference to Godwin, whose notions have been conjured, like Candyman) more a case of...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8o2QqcFRyg

trolls i usually ignore. Longer trolling posts from noted trolls i also tend to ignore, as not only do any answers simply be ignored, but its impossible to get those minutes back. I've spent too many thousands of *hours* trying to talk to trolls, and now i don't bother.

feel free to accord me the same honour.

Okey-doke.

Just, note: first look up what troll means.

It's not 'folk failing to agree with me'.

I stand ready to be ignored. Again.