Friday 18th March 2011

At last, the middle East gets a two-state solution!

(Just a thousand miles West of where it expected one)

Got this Urge To Urinate and Defacate on any Pile of Bile of guardian garbage I come across

do you think a human right liar would represent me

Are You Kidding I wouldnt Touch any of Them with Yours or A Barge Pole

Its My Human Right Not To Get Infected with That Very Nasty Poxy Brain Dead Diseaze

Gadaffi has been around the block afew times, he knows how to pull the teeth from the international community.

He will take away the international communities excuse, use the oil as a bargaining chip and take his fight against his own people underground, no direct conflict but strategic disapearances of key individuals and occasional stories of horrendous torture and suffering of the families of rebel supporters.

It is abhorent but is that not the way it seems to work.

Funny how there does not seem to be much media comment or profile on the saudi / Bahrain story, potentially a much bigger global impact.

my comments on libya posted yesterday:

66. At 2:24pm on 18 Mar 2011, you wrote:

some background on Libya:

"From its inception, the revolutionary regime placed great emphasis education, continuing and expanding programs begun under the monarchy. By the 1980s, the regime had made great strides, but much remained to be done."

https://countrystudies.us/libya/56.htm

perhaps demonstrating Ghaddafi was educated in Britain?:

"Perhaps most important were lagging enrolments in vocational and technical training. As recently as 1977, fewer than 5,000 students were enrolled in 12 technical high schools. Although unofficial estimates placed technical enrolments at nearly 17,000 by 1981, most doctors, dentists, and pharmacists in the early 1980s still came from abroad. Young Libyans continued to shun technical training, preferring white collar employment because it was associated with social respect and high status. As a consequence, there seemed to be no immediate prospect for reducing the heavy reliance on expatriate workers to meet the economy's increasing need for technical skills. "

[same link]


and this link just puts the icing on the cake. Who could tell that Libyan thinkers were being told the same economic/educational fantasies as our own bunch of misanthropic morons?

https://urdutahzeeb.net/articles/blog1.php?p=4970&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1


on the current situation:

https://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2059233,00.html?xid=rss-mostpopular


to cut through some of the black/white BS being sown, here is a rough ranking of US/Western desires in Libya:

1. a new loyal Dictator. Preferably one with the confidence of the Army and Securiat.
2. a new Dictator who can be vilified. Enemies are always useful for propaganda purposes, and this rarely affects actual trade.
3. a civil war that will enable Western Powers to grab control of the oil/resources, selling arms to both sides, and turning back any social advances made in the last few decades.
4. Ghaddafi remain in power. It would annoy them, because Ghaddafi controls the trade deals, and he is unlikely to be very happy with the massive media-attack he, Libya in general, and his family were subjected to. But this is still preferable to Washington, Paris and London than:

5. a genuine democratic social-democracy movement. "Govt of the People, For the People, By the People". The absolute LAST thing despots and Corporates in the West want, because the corruption would be dramatically reduced. Every accurate Historical record shows this adequately. It also, btw, shows that in every case Western populations were lied to deliberately. Just like "Iraq's Liberation" was for Iraqi benefit, remember? This, despite the inevitable rhetoric, is the polar opposite to what Global leaders actually intend: and the same is true in Russia, China, and the other 'Great Power' Imperial nations. Actual democracy, and certainly non-corrupt, popular control of resources gives them the screaming nightmares!

whilst it is amusing to watch Western Leaders and 'in-house' political spokespeople try to manage to maintain this balancing act, it is not amusing watching the actual people in Libya, Bahrain and elsewhere suffering and dying hoping the West will come to their aid.

frankly - look to Gaza. You will see there the facts of Western policy, and the truth behind the misty-eyed rhetoric of freedom and democracy from Western Leaders. Who are busy even now arming the dictators throughout the region.

it would be naive to imagine the USA will give up its Empire as 'easily' as the Soviets collapsed. Sad it is to say it, but the USSR was a more moral beast in many ways than the West is.


and i detest Marxism.

I had rather thought 'the problem' was this geezer killing innocents.

Yet within seconds of him stopping (or at least claiming to), it appeared the entire news contingent decided this was a bad thing and 'we' had played into the wily despot's hands.

I even saw some quickly imported eminence greaseball on the lunchtime news try to claim that him caving (for now) was a possibility 'no one had anticipated'. Uh-huh.

No pleasing some folk.

After the calibre of Japan agenda and ratings obsessed gush, I really hope we might at last get some objective reporting and competent analysis on this, preferably not from a single or paired up couple of extreme axe-grinder 'guests' ported in to say by proxy what the guys behind the glass like the sound of.

What's the betting?

This made me chuckle: '@JohnRentoul Stop The War will be marching this afternoon in opposition to a UN resolution that has just stopped a [civil] war'

I wonder if they'll in any way be egged on by our responsible, impartial broadcast media.

oops, this should have come first, sorry!:


59. At 1:07pm on 18 Mar 2011, you wrote:


no-fly zone, Libya:

here's the Reality: Britain and France have significant Oil deals with Libya worth £Bns each year. The corruption behind those deals is not just Gaddafi creaming off £Bns into his own accounts, but on both sides of these 'back-room deals'. By "freezing" Ghaddafi's assets, Britain and France have ensured those trade deals will likely be revoked, so some very powerful and wealthy 'behind the scenes' people in France and Britain are livid.

the FIRST objective of ingoing troops will be the oil facilities, later perhaps the Museums once the rarest artefacts have been stolen for private collections in Europe or the US, just as in Iraq. THEN the troops will be sent to protect the civilian areas such as Benghazi. Our troops will then directly face the armies of Ghaddafi, who are now inspired to be fighting against "foreign imperialists" - and how will our troops also prevent 'internal' actions against them by Ghaddafi loyalists in the 'safe havens'?

They will not know who to arrest, and they will almost certainly be forced into an "Iraq situation" very quickly. There ARE ways to avoid this however, as there also were in Iraq. BUT they will rely upon our working WITH the rebel PEOPLE, and not just the rebel leaders, many of whom seem amazingly pro-West all of a sudden. Oil wealth can be spread around to other, new, corrupt and brutal dictators, you see.

sorry, more reading:
https://www.utopia-politics.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=4436

to avoid the situation, allow the 'working groups' of the rebels, the actual councils that sprang up to organise after they liberated themselves, to organise. Even to have a direct input to how the Military operates there. The aim should NOT be to find a new 'Strong-Man Leader' to take over, but to redistribute power - and the wealth from the oil-flow - downwards amongst the People. We - and the rebels - must show the rest of Libya that the rebel areas are *really* - 'having it good', *genuinely*! If we go there, we must go as liberators of the People - not the Oil and a new generation of corruption and dictatorship. This will be a brand new concept for Washington, Paris and London, but if they do not take these steps, then in the blink of an eye THIS is what our soldiers will face:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/1501319/Secret-MoD-poll-Iraqis-support-attacks-on-British-troops.html

of course, do these megalomaniacs care about our soldiers lives, or Libyan rebel lives, REALLY?

"5. At 4:24pm on 18 Mar 2011, JunkkMale wrote:

I had rather thought 'the problem' was this geezer killing innocents.

Yet within seconds of him stopping (or at least claiming to), it appeared the entire news contingent decided this was a bad thing and 'we' had played into the wily despot's hands.

I even saw some quickly imported eminence greaseball on the lunchtime news try to claim that him caving (for now) was a possibility 'no one had anticipated'. Uh-huh.

No pleasing some folk."


UK-France "Blast it old chap, the Dastardly Blighter has ended the excuse we needed to invade and secure the oil! Shall we do it anyways? ...Operation Independent Libya sounds like a good new Crusading title, what do you think? The Sunni-OPEC and the Danes will help..."

straight out of the Bush-manual for International Relations.

i wonder if i am allowed to post this *now*, mods?


Subject:
Thursday 24 February 2011

Posting:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12565214

if Israel doesn't sort its [stuff] out and start treating the Palestinians as humans with equal rights, this might have another use quite soon.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-12565586

bet this gets mentioned tonight, bit of light ribbing from the guests i imagine... ;)


------------

i'm sure camoron and sarghosi-le-pen are quite willing to send in the bombers and troops to secure their oil deals, i wonder how willing they are to actually care about the Libyan population though? How many refugees would they accept from Libya is a pretty good yardstick...

OOPS Don't Tell the Plod,
I just trashed a few guardian comiks .. The Staff Said Done Nowt

As You No Auntie I Live in a Garrison Town .. Glad 2 State my name isnt s bell

Do You Wear Guts for Garters Auntie

SYCOPHANTIC CIPHERS ALL - THE HORROR OF WAR, WESTMINSTER STYLE

Jingo bells, jingo bells, jingo all the way, Oh what fun it is to win and fight another day. . .

I am too physically sick of the Westminster Malaise to write more.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

10 its better than dyeing and not fighting another day

try picking up a few rotten stiffs for Real with a spoon

It may be no more than pure coincidence or even an " options bounce " but it would appear that BAE Systems share price has risen 3.68% ( second biggest riser on the FTSE today ) since the announcement of the No-Fly zone over Libya.

Given that the Tory party allegedly gets most of its funding from the likes of hedge funds, I can't help speculating as to whether the main aim of the No-Fly ( since its too late ) zone was to increase the theoretical value of the stock market. Since politicians need only disclose share holdings if they own more than 5% of total company assets perhaps cabinet members could be sitting on a fat profit as a result of instituting the No-Fly zone ?

Just saw François Picard's debate on France24. Apparently, even though Libya produces 2% of the world's oil, it supplies 70% of Europe.....

The Holy Rosenbergs

It is the eve of the funeral of Danny, the eldest Rosenberg son who died fighting for the Israel Defense Force in Gaza. The more extreme elements of Edgware’s Jewish community are threatening to protest at the presence of the dead man’s sister Ruth...

https://www.thestage.co.uk/reviews/review.php/31590/the-holy-rosenbergs

when will cameron ask for a list of the names of uk citizens fighting for israel so they can be prosecuted? when will those organisations in the uk saying its ok to fight for the idf be prosecuted for misleading uk citizens into criminal acts?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-R3S-2vSYNA&feature=feedu

# 10 yes its utterly appalling isn't it . It will cost billions (austerity terrorism on us will pay for it) innocent's will be killed and they're all having a 'big up' with the BBC facilitating events. Sickness.

My nexdoor neighbour and life long friend has just been diagnosed with cancer was just talking with the Macmillan nurse being as he has no family so am pretty much trying to meet difficult events as they happen. Everything is falling away; understanding painting and looking at beautifully dressed women is all I seem to enjoy these days.

Alex Jones opinion banned, so much for the right to free speech in the UK 2011, Corporate Nazi thought police out in force tonight ?????????

looks like gaddafi is doing an israel ie saying one thing to misdirect while making 'facts on the ground'?

CONCISE - SHREWD - CHILLING (#19)

When I was in business, and up against some pretty perverse commercial behaviours, I realised that to appear (potentially) OUT OF CONTROL, is the only card that trumps perversity. Mad Gaddafi? Or a good learner?

This is the Age of Perversity – led by ‘the West’.

In passing: Yaweh wasn't exactly a saint - was he! (Sorry, just can't write that in present tense.)

Respect Jaunty.

One for barrie

https://imaginativeworlds.com/forum/showthread.php?15074-9-11-The-Dead-Witnesses

Corporate Nazi's alive and well here, wonder when the Tories will suggest we copy it ?

https://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/war-poor-minnesota-republicans-want-b

IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME - PAY NO ATTENTION (#21)

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1317481/Monica-Coghlan-killed-by-robbery-car.html

That sort of thing belongs to bad novels and the minds of those who write them Bro.

#22: nu-labour/tories brought it in years ago for refugees. I'd give it less than 24 months for the UK. The murdoch press will love it - all those "work-shy scroungers" FORCED to shop at Corporate Tescos - MARVELLOUS!!

When the edge has time its not as emphatic as a stopped time edge, if you wish to paint this is important to know and compensate for otherwise you have a cut-out.

Its worth while looking at the edges that Vincent made - look at that killer criss cross squiggle on top that defines the skull form and informs us he was a brilliant painter.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/84/Skull_with_a_Burning_Cigarette.jpg

Look how Vermeer compensates for the stopped time and removes a definition of the edge to a tonal transition in the features of the face - mouth, nose, eyes.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/66/Johannes_Vermeer_%281632-1675%29_-_The_Girl_With_The_Pearl_Earring_%281665%29.jpg

In a day when the news was dominated by a potential nuclear catastrophe and possible British involvement in a new war, the 'Sun' chose a story about a "five in a bed romp" by a minor celebrity as its headline story.

This is how it performs its duty of keeping the citizens of our "democracy" informed, before telling them to vote for Rupert's annointed. This is obviously the "circuses" part of "panem et circenses".

Wipe Your Grinner with the guardian and the Mirror are your sure 2Become A Grinning WINNER

Your 1st Prize is Fresh Air

The People who are Against the Intervention have NO Time for Children and Women, Some of which are Treated Worse than Dogs, I have Seen how They whoever They are Treat Dogs

Sit On That Fence Fatty

You can call me Mr DhuWonderfull Auntie .. Dhu for short .. I am A Dog

DogDhu Can Dhu .. Glich OOPS

Move Along Judge Jules Rules

in 4 days murdoch will gain permanent control of the UK's mass media. Please consider signing this petition:


https://www.avaaz.org/en/murdoch_send_messages/?cl=988149955&v=8675

30 Had a Butchers at The PeTiTon

Sorry I Couldnt Sighn it .. Something to do with Damaging our Democracy

Which Democracy would that Be

I would Sign a Petition to Mag 2 Grid Get Rid of Undesirables

It would Save Lives and Your Tax Quids

The UK is a Breeding Ground for Real Filth

You Pay for Real Filth

Not Me Not Now Not EVER

The Amount of Bread Raised By Red Conk Day Is Stunning

I am Sorry but I Keep coming back To The Missing Buckshee Billions Gone Diffy in Haite

That Buck does Not Rest With Me It Rests with Ye

That Buck does not Stop With Me It Stops with Ye

Find That Ye .. X marks The Spot .. Buried Billions

My Patron Saint is St Andrew My Brothers Name Is Neil

St Andrews X .. A Kiss of Life .. A Kiss of Death

A Kiss of Death 2 REAL FILTH

I am almost an addict of Newsnight and a great fan of Emily Maitlis who usually has total control over what are in general good interviews. But I found her chairing of the discussion between the French Amassador at the UN, an American Senator and Douglas Alexander last night both irritating and offensive. I have complaints. First why when speaking to the Fernch Ambassador did she refer to President Sarkozy as simply Sarkozy and similarly when she was speaking to the American Senator she referred to President Obama as Obama. Is this necessary? Particularly when addressing a representative of the country of whose President she is speaking, would it not be more approrpiate and courteous to refer to the leaders of those countries using their titles rather than just their surnames. My second gripe is just about sloppyness. Which I do not excpect either from Newsnight or Emily Maitles. Douglas Alexander is not, as she introduced him, the shadow foreign affairs minister. He is of course the Shadow Foreign Secretary and as such his views have more weight and significance than a mere junior shadow foreign office minister would have.It is also just plain wrong. Civil courtesies, which set the tone of a debate and reliable information should be the benchmarks of Newsnight and as an ardent regular viewer I find it so disappointing.

Talking of Andrew Neil

His Last 2 Guests .. The Fashion Designer .. %100 Behind Her

I used To Swim in The North Sea as A Child .. Wayward Particles Prevent
(brass monkey weather) DoomRay .. Dunnet Head .. Duncansby Head .. Your Off Your ED

The Naughtie Writer I Love Her (%100 Behind Her)I Do .. I am Naughty ish

Savage Lessens To Be Learned on Nuke Power

There Are Real Filth which would if Could Use Nuke at The Drop of a Hat

Agree .. Disagree

TACK Yer Pick

'its in our interests'

oh really, who exactly would 'our'
be

Would 'our' be the general public who have been sold massively short by YOU Mr Cameron who decided it would be a good idea to 'bail' (dole money) out bankers who acted in a massively fraudulent way with all methods of fraud IN PLACE and transfer the perceived criminality to the poor by placing focus on benefits and the lazy unemployed being in bed till midday, the picture painted by Mr Osborne. How about you paint us a picture of liars loans; credit default swaps; collateralised debt obligations; naked short selling and the big long time fraud; the one and only - Fractional Reserve Banking. Come on lets have a picture of who 'OUR' is .

Outstanding interview on fraud-closure and banks

https://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/Broadcast/Entries/2011/3/19_Chris_Whalen.html

So come on who is 'OUR'

36 The Missing Billions .. The Missing Memory

Warnings on The Its The Econenemy Stupid Were Blasted Out Over Ten Years Ago

Did You/Do You .. Miss Your Float/Boat

Eye Didnt

Motoring Bike Weather .. Rugby this Aft .. Wooden Spoon Get Lost

ThanX for The Mammories Auntie

Hamas emboldened by Cairo's recognition, strikes Israel with 50 mortars
https://www.debka.com/article/20782/

Hizballah is behind the Bahrani revolt, and Iran is arming The Muslim Brotherhood.
https://www.debka.com/

Do I support Colonel Gadaffi - yes
Do I support Bahrain - yes
Do I support Saudi Arabia - yes

Not because I believe in their ideology - but because I believe in the stability of the Middle East. Look at Egypt - you've got rid of Mubarak - now you're going to be replacing him with The Muslim Brotherhood - as armed and funded by Hizbullah. You really think that is going to bring peace, stability and democracy? Dream on.

Ah and also wanted to add that The Muslim Brotherhood is starting it's biggest revolt against Syria too..........

@40 What you post doesn't make sense in terms of the religion and complex history of the region. The Muslim Brotherhood is a Sunni organisation, and it would not make sense for Iran to arm/support it - certainly not against its own Shia allies in Syria. Gaddafi too is a Shiite of sorts, and has been an Iranian ally.

As for stability - the reason the region is unstable is because of decades of repression. A suitable analogy would be a superheated liquid which appears to be stable, but only needs a slight shock to boil over. What you want to do is jam the lid back on the kettle and carry on heating.

Don't trust the fantasies and gross simplifications of your Israeli factional propaganda websites. I doubt whether inforned Israelis whould believe them either!

@41 Addendum:

https://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/2137.htm

This is how Gaddafi sees the world.

@ Sasha #41&#42 - Very funny! You do realise that MEMRI is "A Vital Component in the U.S. War on Terror" Source: https://anonymouse.org/cgi-bin/anon-www.cgi/https://www.memri.org/assistingamerica/

In other words, you are merely reading US propoganda..........remember Iraq and it's so called WMDs? Deja vu? :p

SEE AND RAISE (#41)

Hi Sasha. Does your caveat go far (deep) enough?

I now reckon that reality - any reality - is generally (at least) three layers below the overt.

e.g. Might 'Faction X' be encouraged (like the opponents of Saddam) to rise up, with the INTENT that they should fail?

I blame Brer Rabbit. (And who took up the story as a film?!)

LOVE the super-heated liquid analogy! Did you read my one about nuclear only yielding when its unstable?

Interesting times.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

WARRING TRIBES ARE NEVER FAR AWAY (#42)

When our media referred to Saddam's 'tribe', or now to that of Gaddafi, I sense they think such is archaic - primitive. I suggest tribalism is all around in Parliament and football for a start.

The Ape Confused by Language is fundamentally tribal. 'Global' is a cerebral mad-dream (and a nightmare to the wise). The EU is, of course, just plain barmy.

OK, my comment at #45 (condensed):
The Muslim Brotherhood UNIFIES both SHIA AND SUNNI Islam. It wishes to establish a Caliphate.
Source: https://www.ikhwanweb.com/article.php?id=28217

HOW MANY LAYERS IN 76?

With reference to my post #44: It is clear that '76' has long operated in 'Jeremy-Lover' mode (requiring simple spinal reflex, and no cerebral function) but has now emerged as politically, finely tuned, and astute! THAT IS JUST TWO LAYERS.

LEVEL 3: CIA? Or might '76' be Eliza Manningham-Buller enjoying retirement?

Watch that space Sasha . . .

ED MILIBAND IS NARROWLY AGAINST DEATH - AND THE AGE OF PERVERSITY LIVES.

Limited Ed is adamant that Gaddafi is NOT ALLOWED to kill his own people.

However, when we have civilised Libya, they will realise the error of their ways, in failing to TAX the process of killing one's own people.

Take a look at the tobacco and alcohol death statistics in Britain AND THE PATHETIC PRETENCE AT CONTROLS. (Consider, also, the number slumped in a chair, with an Oxygen bottle their best friend . . .)

Will Gaddafi kill as many as Westminster's finest? (And that is not counting 'Just War' killing of Johnnie Foreigner'.)

Weep perverse, perfidious Britain.

barry, still finding new layers... was helped in that by someone who kin*ly pointed me 2 Wards merovingia. ("10 mins that way", with an Persia akkksent).

the rabbit hole keeps on going down, Gods AlOne knows how high it will go. :/


#40 mistress: well, you ARE a Tory after all. In the Interests of Stability, would you also approve of London machine-gunning the People on British streets?

btw, do you know the history of the name "Tory"? It came from the Irish 'Torigh' (or similar), and was attached to British Tax-collectors, who of course used the tax taken to pay for the colonial occupation, and removal of rights from those very same Irish farmers and people. Being forced to pay tax for the enrichment of wealthy Lords, and your own oppression - by Tories.

not much changes, i guess.

no wonder they hate the idea of transparency in Govt. Both the Tories and Tory-lite.


last night's show very good, obviously still on a topic in progress however. Was very revealing to learn from the french minister that what Lord Cameron claimed was a "success" for him was nothing of the sort - the UK and France had been aiming for the 'right' to "regime change", not to defend the population as camoron claimed.

as he stated, repeatedly, with as much conviction as he is able to muster when he doesn't really believe his words, that there would be NO British soldiers placed on the ground, will he then give his assurance to the House, and the Public, that the same day the first British body-bag comes back from Libya, he will resign as PM, and the Leader of the Tories, and call a general election?

not that i completely disagree with British troops being deployed to defend civilians under attack, but to show to the Country that David Cameron is a Leader who does not want to push the UK into yet ANOTHER war, and if it happens, then he will lay his career on the line, apologise, and go. Of course "Honourable" is merely an ironic nod these days, and certainly means little to the current Govt.


strange report from the BBC:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12793919


"Pro-Gaddafi forces have attacked the Libyan rebel stronghold of Benghazi and their tanks have entered the city, a BBC journalist witnessed.

A jet also appears to have been shot down over the city despite a declared ceasefire and a UN no-fly resolution."


later, same report:

"A rebel spokesman was quoted as saying the downed jet was a rebel plane which had been shot down by pro-government forces."

hmmm. Spin? Then:

"The BBC's Ian Pannell saw the government tanks on a bridge inside Benghazi at around 1030 (0830 GMT)."

really? INSIDE the city? Yet the rebels have tanks and artillery in defensive positions around the city, according to reports this week? Were the tanks being fired on by the city's defenders?


"On Friday, Col Gaddafi's government declared a unilateral truce but there were reports that government offensives in rebel-held towns were continuing,"

and as we heard on NN last night, the rebels will keep fighting. Hell, wouldn't you, considering Ghaddafi's threats? So is continued fighting really that surprising?


"But a Libyan government spokesman said there had been "no attacks whatsoever on Benghazi".

"As we said, we are observing the ceasefire and we want international observers to come," said the spokesman, Mussa Ibrahim."

who is lying? Every side, probably. "The first casualty of war is Truth".


i think anyone who has even a shred of morality would like this to end now as quickly, and as peacefully, with as little loss of life as possible. So it would be appreciated if reporters make sure of their facts before sending possibly inflammatory reports, please.

is it really so much to ask???

THE TROUBLE WITH PLANES THAT LEAVE THE SKY (#50)

Lockerbie - two (out of three) towers, Pennsylvania hole - Pentagon and now Libya.

Put not your trust in Planes bearing myths.

History used to be bunk. Now it is debunked bunk that has already been debunked before!

@43, @47. Having watched his career for decades, I've no doubt that the MEMRI quotation is an adequate translation of what Gaddafi said. It's also consistent with the Maghreb version of Ismaili Shia Islam.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ismailism

Calls for a new Caliphate are typical of Sunni fundamentalism - the outlook is as incompatible with Shia as Roman Catholicism is with Calvinism. I'm not comparing any Christian doctrine with a Muslim one - just the depth of the philosophical gulf. When the Pope calls for Christian unity, it's unity on HIS terms!

ECUMENISM – ‘TWAS EVER THUS (#52)

I always smile, reflexively, when Pope and Arch of Cant meet. And now we have Dave, as Pope ('I look down on him') and Nick, as A of C ('I am taken in by him').

I know nothing of Sunni/Shia, but I know we are one species - the rest is inevitable (I have read my Milgram, Zimbardo and Berne).

I wonder if World Leader, Dominant Dave, would know what I am on about.

'HE ALTERS HIS OWN LIKENESS!' Just how removed from reality is that?

@ Sasha #52 - Using Wikipedia as a quote? Oh come now. Very amateur! If you bothered to look at https://www.ikhwanweb.com/
you would see that it is the OFFICIAL English Language site of The Muslim Brotherhood.

#48: barry, "76"?


as i have understood it, the main distinction, avoiding theological dispute, between Sunni and Shia, is the Shia are more prone towards individual enlightenment, and messianic tendencies, whereas the Sunni are more towards 'what is written' - fundamentalism, in its proper sense.

however these differences are far smaller than those within Christendom, probably because the notion of a "Pope" is rejected within Islam, and anyone who has studied the activities and proclivities of the Papal Throne over the centuries can easily understand why. Thus there has never been the 'need' for massive warfare to allow for different opinions within Islam.

one of the recent problems causing Shia versus Sunni is that the Colonial authorities preferred to utilise the Sunni 'royal' families to rule their new territories, as the Shia tended to be more fiercely pro-independence, following the tendency to support Individuality, and not accept oppression, causing many problems for the western powers.

thus the current situation is not so much "Sunni v Shia", but simple revolt against oppression by ruling groups, who happen to be Sunni. The religious element is quite small.

much of the 'inter-faith' conflict in Iraq was deliberately started by the West in its occupation, Divide and Conquer still very much in use.

My #16 is live now after being referred for the duration of last night's propaganda exercise, but after what was said on Dateline London today the BBC probably had no excuse not to show it.

mindywindywhoblowsatwindmills at 50 wrote:

"#40 mistress: well, you ARE a Tory after all. In the Interests of Stability, would you also approve of London machine-gunning the People on British streets?"

That there quote is the usual standard issue retort from them hatefilled Guardian reading neo-leftist, Marxist-Stalinists, Polpotters, Che Guevara and Mao Zed-dung reverence society members and haters of themselves - because mummy wouldn't buy them an ice cream on that day out to Bournemouth when they were young and it left them traumatised...libs

Like I've always said:
Liberalism is a mental disorder and should be treated as such.

and only in that self-hating Guardian newspaper would you find a cartoon having a dig at the good people of Wootten Basset. Though we won't be burning his cartoons in the streets and asking for blood, because we are a Christian country and believe in the right to freedom of speech and expression - though because of the mindset of the average Guardian reader and them in the media -especially the BBC - them days are coming to an end with the fostering and rise of Islam in this country...and all thanks to the illness that is Liberalism and its media arm the BBC.

https://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cartoon/2011/mar/17/steve-bell-on-wootton-bassett

Mindywindy...can you blow a bit harder. As the east coast wind has dropped again...cheers buddy:)

Looking forward to your response but don't bother with the race card anymore mindy...that one doesn't work anymore. Try something original eh and not a cut-n-paste job. And try and get out of the house a bit more..its spring time and the sun out.

"A US judge in Wisconsin has issued a temporary restraining order blocking the state's new collective bargaining law from taking effect."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-12791155


these people are madmen. Good luck to the American People in getting rid of them.

what kind of politicians deliberately star wars, send their armies out to occupy other countries, ramp up Military spending over 300%, hand over $Tns to the Banks and Corporations, and then cut incomes for normal families to pay for it all?? Oh, wait...

--------

"ISPs defend plans for two-tier net

...They argue that if content providers want to pay to get their traffic prioritised on the network, then they should be allowed to do so.

But some content owners and digital activists such as Open Rights Group argue that such a policy would do long-term damage to the internet, which was always conceived as a platform for everyone - not just those with deep pockets."

this is an incredibly important debate, for it opens the possibility that the user will no longer be able to access the whole Net - only that part of it that pays the users ISP to have its content accessible.

in other words, if you are with Sky as your ISP, and the BBC refuses to pay extra to Sky to have IPlayer accessible for Sky ISP customers, then Sky can refuse to allow its paying customers access to the BBC IPlayer.

so Sky would get paid both by the customer (you), paying for internet access, but it then can turn around and demand payment from content providers as well! To put this another way, if YOU are running a web-site, then you would have to pay your ISP extra to have that web-site accessible to others! This is in complete opposition to the spirit of the Net, and allows ISPs to control what you are able to look at, and what you are able to broadcast.

so you might end up paying Sky, or BT etc for Broadband access, only to find you are restricted to surfing only upon their own sites!! You might find your ISP refuses to allow youtube, or facebook - unless those services cough up to the ISP.

to put this yet another way, in China, Iran etc, the Internet is policed by the State, who controls what you are allowed to access and read. In these proposals, it is the ISP corporations who will get that power over the citizens.

now, [shudders], in a nightmare situation and a rogue Govt allows Murdoch to purchase Sky, that would allow *him* to decide what media *you* the user can access on the internet....


exactly. Fairly important stuff, even if it seems a bit dry.

#57: aww, a fan, how sweet!

[pats little kev on the head]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00zvf33/Dateline_London_19_03_2011/

windymiller at 59.

So your not taking the bait today.
You'll have to stand on a chair if you want to give me a pat on the head.

ONE DAY EVERYONE WILL BE PERMITTED TO TELL GADDAFI TO GO FOR 15 MINUTES.

Politicians really do not live in this world. I have now seen the long and the short and the tall - rigid with state sponsorship - intoning 'GO'.
Obama, Hillary, Limited Ed, Billy the Spud. Dave, Nick (last as usual).

Do they not realise they are acting like playground bullies, who have found a victim, and are taking it in turns to taunt and hit - escalating with each 'go'? This is not mature, adult behaviour. If this were Gilbert and Sullivan or Dickens (why have I used 'if'?) there would be one character whose job was to bully on behalf of all the leaders of this Coalition of the Self-Aggrandising. Let's call him 'Pinchpunch Lunchmoney'.

But the top men (and even Hillary - more a man than Bill) HAVE NO IDEA HOW RIDICULOUS THEY LOOK. I just hope the Space Aliens are not watching.

PSSST - WHAT'S THE ISRAELI TALLY OF FLOUTED UN RESOLUTIONS NOW?

Dutch bloke adamant that one just doesn't flout UN resolutions.

Er - racism?

Nuff sed.

for Libya to become another iraq there would have to be no plan for the aftermath with no funding in place to pay civilians to keep services going and no single minister responsible.

iraq was a mess not because of the military campaign but the political one. So the mere presence of troops is not the problem in these cases. its the lack of planning and funding going forward.

it seems people still don't get what made iraq a mess and confuse troops with the political incompetence of having no plan and no funding.

#62: annoying Ghaddafi enough to push him to do something stupid? Most probable. And if he doesn't, well, something can be done and blamed on him anyway. Like Lockerbie.

its hardly surprising Ghaddafi doesn't want a no-fly zone, considering the Western Powers hard-on for assassinations. One tent, one drone, one bomb, new dictator. Simple. Pity we can't gene-tailor a virus for psychopathology. A lot of the world would have to have sudden elections.

no doubt Libya will keep the other, more favoured dictators off the news. GOO GOO, LOOK AT THOSE SHINY JETS BOMBING OUR ENEMIES!!! GOO GOO GOOO!!!!!


#63: you don't imagine that we are all "equal before the law", do you?


#65: iraq was planned that way. There were enough experienced US generals warning about what WOULD happen, and the immense profits for Halliburton from exactly what DID happen, to make it unlikely there was much surprise when it actually happened. Having said that, the ability of the Human Race to convince itself of the most ludicrous ideas truly knows no bounds...

#34: curiously, both Emily and Kirsty seem to get younger and more adorable every week, love to know how they manage it!! ;)

brossen, earlier link:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/8378522/For-every-new-green-job-nearly-four-are-lost.html?sms_ss=facebook&at_xt=4d7c94818b027e6f%2C0

as opposed to how much the banks take out? The deregulation of Banking, allowing the uniting of high-street and 'investment' banking, effectively allows the banks to drain the UK of money - all apparently legally. This is a very real drain upon the rest of the economy. What would YOU prefer, investment in proper jobs manufacturing energy sources, or allowing unregulated financier-gamblers to blow all the Nation's money? And i would be interested to look at the figures this claim is based upon.

It would appear that the Yanks have bombed Libya with cruise missiles but perhaps the No-Fly zone is just an excuse for the Corporate Nazi's to wreck the infrastructure. The whole object of the exercise being to force whoever eventually takes over Libya to borrow from the Banks to fix it all. Then the people of Libya ( who its supposed to be in the interest of ) will get nothing from future oil revenue because it will all go on interest and paying back the loans ?

https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/rembrandt-portrait-of-hendrickje-stoffels

Rembrandt worked out how edges are transformed by stopped time and a canvas - rectangle visual concentration - extremely well mid to late in his life. As Vermeer the brilliance is in the very delicate modification so one reality can be conveyed by another. Others didn't understand so well if at all.

#68: yes. Horrible being smart, isn't it?

Very worthwhile listening to Webster Tarpley's take on our latest war venture:-

https://tarpley.net/world-crisis-radio/

click under this on Webster's site :-

'Subscribe to the GCN RSS Feed'

Corporate Nazi shadows of World War Two ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJ3JiZBP5Vs

"NECESSARY LEGAL AND RIGHT" - HAS A 'FINAL SOLUTION' RING TO IT . . .

I feel sure a certain megalomaniac German leader saw his industrial killing as necessary, legal and right. He (too) had a vision of a better world, and saw killing people as a way of achieving it. And our Tony - how he loved the verbal triplet, on his way to the destruction of untold Iraqis. Remember 'extensive, detailed and authoritative'.

Recently, Dave employed the word 'feeble' to swat Limited Ed; well Dave, to me, 'necessary legal and right' comes across as illusory, venal and trite. In a word: 'feeble'.

That Dave has seen fit to tell us the killing is legal, is significant. That he feels the need to qualify 'legal' with 'right' is worrying. That the action is deemed necessary is a matter of opinion - nothing more.

Overall, is Dave saying this is NOT like Tony's adventure: unnecessary, illegal and wrong? Perhaps he doth protest too much.

# 73

Absolutely

the Meedja jeered at the US and Britain for "allowing" Ghaddafi to fight a civil war, and now we will see the consequences of that as possibly hundreds of thousands eventually dead, and millions of refugees. Assassinating Ghaddafi wouldn't now make the blindest bit of difference - it would be a maniac who believes now the West has started bombing Libya, that anyone else who takes charge could make the Ghaddafi loyalists change course. It is very hard now to see any other result than escalation.

and indeed, we shall see little of Bahrain and the other pro-Western fascist dictators on the news from now on.

war, blood and slaughter, no doubt the Americans and Murdoch's slavish followers, are already glued to their TVs to watch the latest 'barbarians slaughtered' gladiatorial games. Whilst mouthing platitudes of Peace and Democracy, naturally.

Hill dreams of having the Barabbas role,
already having a corrupt and malignant soul.
But understandeth not the Catholic rewriting,
upon HIS flesh the whips eventually toll.

do malignancy, deliberate lies and evil win,
on the Planet with its love of sin,
or do those who now lie wake up and enjoy
throwing the plans and schemes into the bin.

turning to the Light and telling the truth
a balm for every soul, and that is forsooth
one only, is all it takes,
leaving the liar's cabal, as misanthropes uncouth.

honesty is this World's Redemption,
hatred and Love, not even exemptions
in every Human's hand the future lies,
every deliberate untruth, Evil infliction.

without Honesty, the evil ones win,
not explaining reality, also destroys kin.
no future for Mankind on this planet
when all hearts are manufactured from tin.


https://www.emergingtruths.com/jesus_and_barabbas/jesus_and_barabbas.html

i am no Jesus, but some stories go beyond time. And some stories recreate themselves, even if originally largely allegorical. Would *YOU* trust someone who's favourite 'hero' was Sylar, from 'Heroes'? I didn't.

without liars, there would have been no invasion of Iraq, the Middle East would not be in flames, we would already have in place sustainable energy, and trustable politicians. Without liars, there would have been no WW1 or WW2, no Vietnam, not even any colonial Empires. Without liars, this would be a paradise world, and we would be exploring others. Such a little thing, lying, yet with such enormous consequences for us all.

its a shame so few can destroy everything for everyone else. Its a shame some think that lying is acceptable "for the greater good". I guess its a shame it looks like Mankind is about to wipe itself out. The souls of liars, and the souls of truth-speakers could not be more different. I wonder if this has something to do with 2012/2016?

i wonder how long you will sit on #76, mods? :)


here is wonderful clarity from the same website:

https://www.emergingtruths.com/the_sodomites/the_sodomites.html

Sense by Peter Hitchens :o)
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1367993/PETER-HITCHENS-Why-just-let-Libyans-fight---make-friends-winners.html

@#76, still not posted: mods, how can anyone trust someone who deliberately takes part in a mind-game to prevent someone from knowing and therefore understanding, and therefore being able to change their situation? Who would trust someone who gets others to deliberately lie, or avoid telling essential truths to someone else - how could it be possible to trust such a person, how would you ever know whether they are telling YOU the truth? Indeed, such people are surely to be trusted even LESS than most people? Common sense would indicate so?

if 3 people come to you to try to convince you to lie to a 4th, is it not most likely the reason they give *you* is also based upon lies? Even if 1 or two of the 3 are actually honest in their belief, it only indicates there is an originator of the lie in the 3rd. NEVER trust people who try to get you to lie to others, and if you have any sense never trust their words again afterwards once they have tried. It took me 16 years to learn that valuable lesson, and i learned it the extremely painful way.

these people are nothing except pure poison, on every level. It might take a while to realise what they are, but never again trust them afterwards.


if we applied to same rule to politicians, we might even end up with decent ones. Politicians you would actually like to have as friends, friends you could trust as politicians. This seems far too rare an event, for a species that has invented and stockpiled vast numbers of WMD.

Mankind will survive or fall by its own morality.

------------

STN shall weep if Mankind DOES destroy itself. God would be unhappy. Which element of Mankind therefore, is seeking our own destruction?

#78: damn, i agree with hitchens. (or could it have been the other way around? I will undoubtedly never know). Last week i agreed with much of Kelvin McKensie's rants!

Now i *know* WE ARE ALL DOOMED!! :'(

Yesterday I went on one of my little art trips, this one was Lichfield cathedral with my friend Jo. She has placed a 50p fine on me for every time I mention the word 'bank' yesterday cost me 20 quid and she decided it wasn't worth the money and so produced gaffer tape and threatened to tape up my gob on the way back. Yep we're doomed totally doomed.

Anyways what Ive found is that many art places are now scrambling for funds and you get 'approached' usually by a smiling middle aged vestal virgin who is totally intend on mugging you. I just walked straight past this women on the entrance to the cathedral, of course I could explain why bankers had done this to them but then Jo produces 'the tape' little did I know Ms Vestal Virgin had a sonic organ weapon waiting to attack when we got it far enough in. Absolutely thunderous organ music started up , no kidding we ran to get out past Ms Vestal Virgin gently smiling/laughing at us .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sleepingchildren.jpg

'ODYSSEY DAWN' - A LITTLE HELP HERE?

Would some classics scholar care to unpick 'Odyssey Dawn' for me?

I wonder just WHO came up with it, and what it might tell us (if anything) of the true attitude behind the Libyan adventure.

I remember my horror when the import of 'Shock and Awe' hit me; viz: TERROR. Never did hear who came up with that, but I'll bet Dubya LOVED IT.

TWO CAN PLAY AT WONDERFUL CLARITY MORK (#77 link)

I don't know how you got into this area, but there is one clear anomaly where 'man made in god's image' is concerned. Had God intended male-male COUPLING, He would have fitted the male with a designer 'organ of reception'.

This morning, The Big Questions (BBC 1) discussed homosexual marriage as an adjunct to defection from C of E to Rome. Right in the middle of the studio, were two bull elephants AND NO ONE NOTICED!

As the sea shanty goes: "I never seen de like since I bin born, a big buck 'ethnik' with his sea-boots on . . ." Elephants abound!

We are such a cowardly lot.

CHOOSING THE MANAGEMENT (#79)

What are you doing Mork! Your post requires focused thought . . .

Westminster's ethos is akin to:

(1) A beauty contest judged by the visually impaired.

(2) Great Tit choosing strategy (a big chest-stilpe is all).

(3) Divide and fail.

(4) A good liar is better than a bad liar.

(5) A club for those whom no other club would have as a member.

Yeah - doom it is Mork.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

"NO QUALIFIED SUPPORT WILL BE ACCEPTED" - NOTE THE FUTURE TENSE!

Liam Fox said the above to Anne Leslie, when challenged over judicious non-intervention in Bahrain.

BUT THE DEAL IS CLEARLY - DONE (past tense). As Fox (note the name) spoke, there was a smile (smirk) in the corners of his eyes.

POLITICS: 'The art of self deception, wrapped in the craft of deceiving others - for their own good.'

MILITARY INTERVENTION: The application of death and destruction to avoid death and destruction. (Only allowed by ethical states, if dispensed upon Johnnie Foreigner in his own land.)

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

THE STRANGENESS OF BLOGKIND (#85 - #87)

Utterly bemused of Newbury.

TOPIC: Libya intervention and reporting of same.

COMMENT: New use of 'assets' to mean weapons of destruction.

EXPANSION: Usual Singleton idiosyncrasy.

I see we have ourselves another warmongerer Primeminister.

CUT AND PASTE PRIME MINISTERS (#89)

Indded yo do Kev. AND THE MACHINERY THAT 'MAKES' THEM STILL STANDS.

Who is next? Balls? Alexander? Miliband D?

We CAN stop this. Worth a try, just to prove it is not just Gaddafi who will kill his own . . .

You Won't Post This .. Whoever YOU Are

The Young Man who Died of His Wounds on Friday, Pte Daniel Prior
Was The Nephew of Cpl Stevie Prior, A Great Pal of ours Who Died of His Wounds at The Battle of DarWin Hill and Goose Green, Falkland Islands 1982

Men such as these, Give You A Day of Rest .. Enjoy Your Day of Rest

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1IK-Q9quqk

Comic Relief - raised around a pound a head of our population.

92 I dont buy that You Tube Peace. 93 76 Million? in this Tiny Place No Wonder we're in Trouble

I do hope some of The Record Amount raised goes to Japan

Enjoyed my day of Rest yesterday Auntie

did part of The Fleet Half Marathon .. on my Motoring Bike
Excellent Country File, do Ewe have A twin auntie I do, The Welsh Farmer with his Pregnant Ewe's and the tender care, now that is a good farmer, This country is begging to go for Hydro Power.
Watched Top Gear repeat Watched Top Gear repeat
My Fathers middle Name is Clark I am A Clarkson
My Mothers middle Name is May I am A Mason
Bought my Girls 2 Hamsters wrong Guinea Pigs I Love Pigs I Love Hamsters
Do I like Top Gear No I Love Top Gear
The Wonders of The Universe, I could have told you there is No Darkside of The Moon, went up there last week with Wallace and Gromit for some more Cheese, No Complaints about The Music it adds to the mood
Am I turning into a Sad old Spud Coach .. I Dont Think So

D. N. A.

Only Incestious Paedo's would have Cause 2 Flap over The Old Bill's Collecting of Fingerprints & D.N.A.

Over the Years British Bobbies have collected loads of my stuff

They could Never in A Billion Years Fit Me Up for A Paedo Charge.

I was Very Pleased about the Smashing of A Paedo Ring, however what will they get, They Deserve More Than A Slap on the Wrist.

Same for Idiots who Tea Leaf from Farmers

AH .. Lest I Forget .. The Old Firms Game

Did I See an Plonker in Blue trip over A Blade of Grass

Disgrace look yourself in the face