Monday 21 February 2011

"Britain's role in bringing Colonel Gaddafi in from the political wilderness."

BRITAIN'S ROLE? Blair's role surely!

One of the more idiosyncratic features of our democracy is that foreign policy seems to be a blank sheet upon which any government or "charismatic" leader may write what they choose.

I don't remember Blair's rehabilitation of the Colonel being debated or voted on, nor was it articulated in any manifesto.

Britain, ie the British electorate, played no role in Gaddafi's return to the fold other than playing the phlegmatic dupe to Tony Boy's get rich quick schemes.

I remember being dumbstruck at the time; this guy's Embassy team in London SHOT a WPC! Whether Al Megrahi or not, his security forces were deeply implicated in the biggest act of terror in Britain!

Nail Blair, not Britain.

Er, actually Kashi, you'll find that it wasn't only Blair! Britain has £billions in trade with Libya, be it in oil contracts or MoD contracts etc, so business is a higher priority than mere principles.

NO NEED TO NAIL BLAIR - HE HAS CRUCIFIED HIMSELF (#1)

Poor Tony. God only knows what parental impact left him so needy. He went from 'bad-boy' at school to Jagger wannabe, to law (too slow to power?) via 'safe seat', to MP and by charisma and blag, to PM.
Poor Tony: he has not split, like Brown, to avoid knowing himself. Tony KNOWS what he has done, but has no idea why, or how to call 'hslt'. It is eating at his vitals like some Miltonesque Devil, and IT SHOWS.

Like all of us, Tony must live with his misfortune, BUT WE MUST STOP ELEVATING 'TONIES' TO ABSOLUTE POWER. It is the Westminster Ethos and our stupid connivance that elevates such megalomaniacs. Now WE HAVE GOT OURSELVES ANOTHER ONE! We must attend to 'Tonies AND THE CAUSES of Tonies’.

SPOILPARTYGAMES

British jobs for whom? (regarding a Fri ecolizzy link)

Nothing new in this other than the obvious pointing out of the consequence of uncontrolled immigration has an impact especially when times get hard and the Labour market place gets a bit tight..well its a bit more than tight at present and for the foreseeable future wouldn't you say.
Anyhow, when this happens the recently settled immigrant -and including some that have been here for generations -always goes on the defensive when any comment is made about the downside of immigration and some of its questionable benefits. Any rightwing rhetoric will always be challenged etc by the Johnny come latelys with tan.

The rise of nationalism will always happen in tough times. And whilst the majority adhere to some long traditional culture that can be described roughly as British, the commonwealth incomer and others will only ever be recognized only as an outsider thats been given a chance to settle here. Nothing more and nothing less.
A Pakistani man may settle here. but his culture is Asian, he can never be described as British or English no more than me been described as Italian or Lithuanian.. but if I chose to live there permanently (Lithuania would be my first choice, Italians are hard work in my experience) I may be made welcome ..but i'd always be regarded as an outsider. I'm British of Irish/Scottish blood. We here have overdone the tolerance deal a bit too much and I believe to the detriment of the welbeing of this nation..it will backfire on us eventually if we don't attempt to reverse some of the past mistakes. Camaron recently made a speech in Munich that questioned the wisdom of allowing multicuturalism to thrive..the recognition that Multiculturalism has been a wholesale failure etc. Not sure I want to hold my breath on any radical policies regarding this issue from this Govt just yet though.
Nationalism is not something we only read in the history books...its only ever a couple of meals away. When the redundancy notices hit the door mats of the public sector workers this year and they find it hard even to find low paid manual work -even finding an opening in a cleaning job will be rare because the immigrant has zipped up that part of the Labour market (haven't they always).. i wonder how long the traditional public sector worker leftwing mentality will still be with them. I've seen the most ardent Liberal leftish socialist soon lose their political principles when they find themselves suffer. They spin 180 on a penny and can turn into the most rabid rightwinger in a week of experiencing some actually hardship. They could be the most vocal in questioning immigration...as long as they don't suffer that awful disease mind: full blown liberalism.. no known cure for that. I mean, Look at Crick..totally full blown liberalism, very sad.

DEMOCRACY DAVE VISITS EGYPT 'TO ENCOURAGE REFORM'

Presumably he will extol First Past the Post 'democracy'.

We are still determined to make bloody fools of ourselves abroad, it seems; and who better than Dave!

#2; Er, actually Ms., trade cannot legally take place with somewhere like Libya without sanction, covert or not, from HMG.

"Mere" principles are not the case here; heinous crimes were committed by agents of Libya on British soil; we are still none the wiser as to when/if the criminals were/will be prosecuted.

Is it any wonder the British are viewed with such suspicion in Africa and the Middle East?

It would be interesting to hear what Lord Bell the PR supremo who has been helping Libya improve its image has to say about the current situation.

knew it would all end in tears.....getting in bed with Gaddafi...

#4; yet again a warped view of a situation, plastered with self serving nostrums/nostra.

"British with Irish/Scottish blood"; sounds like there's some immigrant "blood" in there somewhere.

Immigrants don't "zip up" parts of the labour market; employers do by offering low wages which ,in times of plenty, only immigrants will take.

The "nationalism" you speak of is more accurately termed "xenophobia"; look it up.

Public service workers in this country divide into two broad groups; those with a true vocation and those in it for the pension, perks and an easy job for life. Neither group would be exclusively of "left wing mentality" as you so turgidly put it, although the latter group will clearly find it difficult if handed their jotters - they could , of course, develop undiagnosable back trouble.

Kashi Came Early With A Tan.

SEPIA NEWS

All this fuss about 'indigenes' and 'British' etc is a bit self-indulgent.

Territoriality is as territoriality does. Unconsciously we divide into proprietors and intruders - right down to bugs.

The Chingford Skinhead was close with his 'Cricket Test'.

It's what Nature does, and we are still the 'Ape Confused by Language', now living in the Age of Perversity.

Oh - it's all going awfully well.

@9
Case in point.
your response

I take issue you with you, Sir, at number 4.

I have interviewed a number of people who simply do not fit the culture & ethnicity classification you describe, nor the one bandied around on forms.

Cases in point include:

An eleven year old boy with whom I spent some time discussing the Illuminati. On coming to ethnic classification he told me he was English although clearly the form wanted me to put Indian.

A middle aged lady who told me she was Iraqi, married to a Euro-American. (Why they were eligible for Tax Credits I'm not sure.) Actually I suspect she was Anglo-Indian since her grandfather was from India, in the British Army and posted to Iraq, and her grandfather and father were both called John.

A charming young woman who said she really didn't know what ethnicity she was. Well, culturally speaking, she was a Saath Landanner but her grandparents had been bonded labour in Madagascar.

Another woman who was called, for the sake of example Caitlin Donahugue, was in fact South African mixed race but she had no idea of what since in the mixed race community that she grew up in no-one spoke about where their colour came from, although she admitted her grandmother looked quite Indian. She was married to an Irish man but had no idea why her mother gave her an Irish first name.

Another charming young woman who's father was from Ghana and mother from Indonesia. We looked up the Ghana entry on my multi-lingual sheet and she was thrilled to see it since that was the only thing she knew about her father's background. She said she was English.

Hundreds of Libyans are paying a heavy price in blood and limb to raise their voice for their fundamental rights. It is a surprise to none that Libyan authorities will deal heavyhandedly with the protestors. But what is surprsing to many is the ineffective and certainly inadequate
efforts on the part of Amnesty Internation, Human Rights Watch and UN Commission on Human Rights and other advocacy groups.

In this age of ubiquitous technologies people with right motivation can trigger much mobilization. Take the example of Julian Assange as one who came up with a portal that changes the way people approach secrets that authorities wish to hide away. Human Right advocates ought to come up with savvier solutions more so if adequate mobilization and uproar could contribute to save precious lives.

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Barrie - I see it as layering. Most patches of land have seen successive waves of settlers over millenia. But not all cultures relate to territory in the same way; hence the term 'diaspora' vs. 'world'.
Another observation - do you suppose that the planet is a giant petri dish of cultures and colonies? Perhaps we are bacteria confused with apes?

9 - you missed a third group in the public sector - people who do it for the "na-na-ne-na, you haven't filled the form in correctly" sick metaphorical bandaging of low self-esteem, frustration and irrationality.

WESTMINSTER DENIZENS FEEL AT HOME IN THE AGE OF PERVERSITY (#13)

The distraught lady, speaking from Libya, confronted 'us' with watching her kin butchered, 'as a TV show'. Indeed we do.

I have pointed out before, that Johnnie Foreigner is a 'cheap life' in his own land - we bomb him at will, and those doing the 'job they love' go hunting. But should JF flee here, after committing a heinous crime, and impregnate an indigene, not one hair of his head shall we threaten.

To politicians (and much of The Law) it is all a game. The Gods had a similar attitude on Mt Olympus, so perhaps it is part of the Cultural Olympics?

Mods - you can't label people as nasty simply because they make a pun in German, that's reverse prejudice isn't it?

Well, the gist of my modded post was that AV/PR will lead to sectarianism in the political system.

Our history of parliamentary democracy (and constitutional monarchy) is a more sophisticated form of governance; designed to keep out corporate or religious totalitarianism, developed over 1000 years and not available to countries without that development.

For those countries AV/PR is of course the obvious choice, and with all it's risk of sectarianism and totalitarianism -

- or worse, lowest common denominator. (AV/PR is hardly 'Ariste').

Rather, we should remain aware of the economic plight of the country and retain the Labour movement that was so hard fought for and with many many lives.

VISCERAL OWNERSHIP v CEREBRAL OWNERSHIP (#15)

Nice! I am still mesmerised by the Jew/Arab/Jerusalem mess. Only an Ape confused by Language (with consequent bizarre religions) could get into such an impasse. And only a megalomaniac like Blair could believe he can solve it, by his presence, AND WITH AN ALIEN THIRD PART OF THE INEFFABLE ONE GOD, ON HIS SIDE!

The Jews spent most of two thousand years telling each other that Yahweh gave them some land over there, while the Gentiles lived on it, establishing an 'animal right' of territory held through generations. Then the British interfered. . .

Nuff sed.

SAUSAGES MORE POPULAR IN BRITAIN - ANOTHER POWER STATION NEEDED.

I would like to point out that the cylindrical sausage is an energy-wasting nightmare, and a Health and Safety abomination. The ratio of contact with the pan to volume to be heated (not to mention the inverse square differential under a grill) should have them outlawed under the New Green. Then there is the time and motion loss because they burn along the heated contact-line long before the interior is healthy-hot! By far the best 'Pretend Meat Aggregate', I would surmise, is a hexagonal, thin 'burger'.

The ratio of lost heat to absorbed heat, when cooking the traditional sausage, is a Green Crime.

Ban the Banger.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7Usl1v7u40&feature=feedlik

comments from last weeks QT:

very good QT so far. The woman in the audience was wrong, claiming the register only applied to people imprisoned for 3 years, here:

"In the United Kingdom, the Violent and Sex Offender Register (ViSOR) is a database of records of those required to register with the Police under the Sexual Offences Act 2003, those jailed for more than 12 months for violent offences, and unconvicted people simply thought to be at risk of offending. In response to a Freedom of Information Act request in 2009, for example, Greater Manchester Police reported that of 16 people in their area placed on ViSOR since 2007, 4 (25%) had not been convicted."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violent_and_Sex_Offender_Register

so at least 25% of the people on it have not even been convicted, let alone spent time in prison. No wonder then that this legislation is completely at odds with Human Rights laws. And even scarier then, considering that other EU countries have publicly rebuked and rejected such legislation, that our 'prime minister' "feels sick in his stomach" at the thought of changing this legislation even so mildly. I feel "sick on my stomach" that we have a 'Leader' who is quite happy having the kind of dictatorial, Police State powers that totalitarian Govts love to have.


on human rights - Heseltine was marvellous, absolutely marvellous.


Heseltine's critique of Govt investment to create new manufacturing - then we need to build the robots that build the items. We STILL NEED GOVT INVESTMENT, - that is exactly how the 'Tiger Economies' of South East Asia grew! The UK can still rebalance ourselves - if we had a Govt that was interested in forcing the corporates/banks to pay their taxes, and used that to reinvest in the United Kingdom.


yvette cooper - labour is already fighting the next election.


many graduates wouldn't mind good manufacturing AS LONG AS THEY ARE TREATED WITH RESPECT. Create manufacturing *COOPERATIVES*, where every worker can put input in, and the rewards are shared. Graduates want good jobs - if manual labour wasn't paid a pittance, and sneered down on as "stupid" labour, in some farcical 'elitism', then manufacturing would be seen as good employment. I doubt the Germans regard manufacturing as stupid labour.


both Tories and Labour used incapacity benefit to adjust the unemployment figures.

wouldn't yvette cooper absolutely LOVE to be in the current coalition cabinet??

teachers cannot be teachers when the curriculum is so bad. But in comparison much more more modern education systems, their teaching is *also* bad, in some cases. In other words, it is BOTH teachers AND curriculum that is wasting the time spent in school. In short, it is the incredibly bad mismanagement of State schools over the last 30 years or so that has led to our schools being uninspiring for so many young Britons.

::respect::

heseltine: thatcher wanted peace - but was forced into war over the Falklands?

then my apologies Lady Thatcher, for previously calling you "a war-monger". I release you from the blessing. I hope you find peace. I still think you should come back as a child in the developing world, however.

Can we find out who the war-makers were?


Labour's "investment into the Welfare State": much of those New Labour "investments" went into PFI deals that locked the UK into long-term privatisation deals. The Tories however have gone for direct privatisations. Neither are as trustworthy as a starving rattlesnake.


a £Bn to Africa for small regeneration programs would be an incredible change. i don't know where the UK budgets go in India, hopefully not to underwrite arms deals, but to create regeneration. It is a shame that India does not do more for its own poor, however..



do you know what i would love to have seen, to experience? A John Smith Govt opposed by a Michael Heseltine Opposition. In the last 2 nights we have seen two old, but living, Statesmen - John Prescott and Michael Heseltine, although on different programmes. Their sheer majestry and depth, cuts the shallow pageantry of current PMQs to the bone. A pleasure to have observed these two gentlemen, even though i disagree with many things they say and believe.

..Huawei is close to a deal with Transport for London to provide mobile communications equipment on the London Underground...The Chinese communications hardware maker is the only bidder in the running for the contract...

https://www.zdnet.co.uk/news/business-of-it/2011/02/21/huawei-close-to-tube-mobile-deal-say-reports-40091882/

why is the uk govt so relaxed about a company the usa is paranoid about? the chinese take the view that 'every citizen a soldier'?

so much for the 'free market'? where is the competition? looks like it is china or nothing?

brossen: the people you constantly refer to as "eco-fascists" actual ecological campaigners call them "Green-washed Corporate Fascists". Virtually one of them have any real eco credentials, their only interest is in making ever greater Corporate profits, and control.

barrie: even if there were only 21 voters (the number of Ministers?), they would still claim they had 'legitimacy' to rule. Spoiling ballot papers is as completely useless to change the system as not voting.


for all those 'conspiracy-buffs', our Western leaders are actually aghast at the revolutions sweeping the Muslim world, far away from supporting them, they are doing everything they can to suppress them - and trying to minimise the chance of *us* finding that out.

after all, popular uprisings against tyrannical, war-mongering, torturing, corrupt and undemocratic, over-pampered and economically ignorant Leaders is not going to make *them* sleep very easily, is it?

GOOD HEAVENS IS THAT THE TIME? (#24)

Blimey Mork, you write an awful lot for a chap who seems not to grasp what others have written. The whole of your second para has a surreal quality. But then you Trust Heseltine before your own judgement (re Maggie) it seems. As for statesmanlike Prezza - you are avin a laugh.

WILL THE YELLOW PERIL PUT CONTROL CHIPS THROUGHOUT LONDON UNDERGROUND? (#23)

Oh no - silly me. There is a deep, mutually respectful, fraternity (maternity?) between all nations now.

It's a multicultural, multifaith, multi-ethnic world, just a step away from peace and harmony.

Information about The British Council link with those round Gadaffi and his son. This speaks for itself I think:

https://dblackie.blogs.com/the_language_business/2011/02/setback-for-british-council-in-libya.html

Apparently Colonel Gaddafi has fled to Venezuela...
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8339096/Libya-Colonel-Gaddafi-flees-to-Venezuela-as-cities-fall-to-protesters.html

19 As Mick noted about Abrahamic religion: "It's only Rock and Scrolls, but we like it"!

My money's on Facebook

So far there have been over 7000 Iraq and Afghanistan Coalition military fatalities, a cost to the US approaching a trillion dollars and over £20 billion cost to the UK taxpayer - trying to impose Democracy and regime change on others. Yet social networking sites are now doing this globally, without our help - apart from our Foreign Office and media fanning the flames.

So do we really need a £35billion annual defence budget? Shouldn't we just bring back the troops and train more of them in anti-terrorist prevention work?

#23: the PPE-educated middle-managers of the Tories and New Labour are utterly hopeless at actually running an economy - except into the ground. The UK has been determinedly deskilled and detechnologised by successive right-wing Govts in the last 30 years, and now we cannot even design and install a simple communications technology.

if "Britain is Broken", then it is because of our mediocre, ideological-driven corrupt political class. Naturally, their "solutions" to "Broken Britain" is more of the same failed policies that got us here - deregulation and lower taxes on the corporates and wealthy, and blaming the poor and immigrants for our rulers shortcomings.

the UK is a democracy? Don't make me laugh.

a proper democracy right now would be raising wages, investing in new growth, creating jobs and excellent education, and forcing those useless bankers, and the whole KKKorporate tax-avoiding scam to pay up for it.

what we have are traitors. Or *AT BEST*, utterly incompetent morons, who just happen to be making a tidy slice of pie for their own pocket from their apparent incompetence as well.

just as the KKKorporates prevent a free-market in the economy through their tax-dodges, and misuse of power, so too the 'Parties' in the UK prevent a free-market in political power. Just as the KKKorporates are corrupt, so are the Parties that have connived to allow them to take control of the UKs economy. Just as the KKKorporates refuse to have anything to do with transparency, or accountability, so too do our 'Parties' act.

and we are supposed to be asleep about this, just as the Tunisians, Bahrainis, Egyptians, Iranians, and Americans, amongst others, are supposed to be.

are we?

Now then McMick Kev, ms 69, ecothingmy and barriesingleton, this'll cheer you up;

In the next five minutes, 274 babies will be born in China and 395 in India.

China will soon become the no. 1 English speaking country in the world.

And barriesingleton; if you were "one in a million" in China, there would be 1,300 of you.

Everywhere I hear the sound of marching, charging feet, boy...

Except good old Blighty.

Too stolid, too phlegmatic, too wrapped up in wannabe celebrity, too embittered by a lost imperial past.

God's Own Country.

And did those feet....?

#25: i know honesty when i hear it, and Heseltine was being honest about that.

after all, bear in mind that he was Maggie's main competitor throughout her political career, especially after the helicopter debacle and his resignation. He had no reason to make what happened clear, except to clear up misconceptions.

as for "spoiling ballot papers" - seriously, think about it. Think about the obvious stitch-up during the last election. Look at their behaviour since. Do you honestly think THESE are the kind of power-hungry wannabe dictators who would give up their quest from *embarrasment*?!? Give up because some - even a majority! - of voters deliberately said "none of the above"?

it would be a joke for them, they would even raise a cheer for you from their after-election champagne-celebrations. To REALLY spoil their party-games, vote for someone who will actually make changes, enforce taxes on the rich, and invest in new jobs and growth. Do you think the b*st*rds we have now like power less than people such as Saddam? Or Ahmadinadjad? We would be lucky to get rid of them without the same 'high drama', to put it mildly. A few spoiled ballot papers wouldn't even make them blink.

nor, for that matter, would a few rigged voting machines. Sorry Barrie, on this one i feel the surrealism is coming from you.


#30: indie, isn't it obvious that much of the "aid" that the UK sends abroad is actually military aid to maintain our favourite dictators in power? Electronic, peer2peer communications have undercut OUR Govts attempts to keep these people "in line", and they are spitting blood behind the scenes no doubt. Make no mistake, our troops were NEVER sent abroad to "introduce democracy" to other peoples - unless it was a corrupt, one or two Party state that 'we' could control properly. See Iraq, Afghanistan in recent years...

Bring the troops home? I would not be surprised to find out in the years to come that British troops/equipment has been used to quell these uprisings. Our people 'sign-up' to defend our homeland - and they are then sent abroad to defend Corporate profits, and US Imperialism.

i don't blame our troops, they do the job as best they can, and many of their valorous lives are lost trying to do the impossible. And then they come home, and the Govt wants nothing more to do with them. Some 10% or more of the people in our prisons are ex-servicemen. Think about that.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1051029/Number-ex-servicemen-jail-nearly-doubles-years.html

https://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/aug/31/military.prisonsandprobation


muslims around the World are aware that we in the West do not actually live in democracies, that we have opposed the so-called War-on-Terror, and that our Govts just ignore us. They know despite our popular myths, we have few rights more than them. The people do not hate us, they are just like us.

#33: kash, gaia bless you, many in the UK are marching. Organising. Spreading knowledge and information.



---news at 10 - i wonder what the Egyptians think of seeing a foreign near-dictator, who had been supplying THEIR dictator with arms and 'crowd-control technology', strolling through their Square pontificating with his chipmunk cheeks about democracy and rights.

sickening to us, i wonder how many of them understand his role? Probably more than we would think!

I can't help speculating that the unrest in Libya was started by the Corporate Nazi's in order to bail out all the oil speculators ?

MI5 and 7/7:

https://www.gawaher.com/index.php?showtopic=39547

this came down from Blair.

the Tories want to privatise EVERYTHING?!?!?!?!?

i *definitely* think it is time to start examining Tory MPs finances, where they get their monies from, who is paying them for lunches and 'executive directorships'. Scum-bags. The TUC bloke was spot on.

SUDDENLY DOMINANT DAVE HAS CLEAR ARTICULATED POLICIES

But they are for Johnnie Foreigner. Mad dogs and Englishmen . . .

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dougless brain TB and his WMD puke

douglost alaxe mp who voted for that ? Shadow Foreigin SeceTary?

Yes Very Foreign

Mork #37

You can't trust the Unions on the future of our country since they would appear to be in on the " Green Growth " scam which is obviously being used as an excuse to asset strip what remains of our manufacturing industry. Its got so bad now in some big companies that people who would once enthusiastically talk about their job don't want to know anything about it now. Just hoping to get their redundancy payments and be done with it, hardly the frame of mind you need in the workforce if our economy is to prosper. Similarly, all the Union Barron's care about is getting their fat cat pension, not the true interest of their members. I am informed that there is at least an open debate about alleged green growth and the climate scam in Unite, so perhaps some real prospect of true change for the better in the future.

7/7 Blame Lies jointly with the UK Gaff Prone Goverment and the Terrorists

THE UK IS SAFE HAVEN For TERROR

If Adolf HITler and Pol Pot and CO were Alive today They would find A Warm Welcome in the UK

I can't be bothered 2 Prove it .. def lugs

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The 39 Steps 2 Truth or Heaven or Hell

One Idiots Terrorist is Another Idiots Bestist Friend

Talking 2 You There ANTI .. You LOve Them You DO

re Douglas Alexander.

sick how these career opportunists in suits are so quick to deflect justified criticism (of the £200m worth of export licenses) by saying: but hey, we only do what's legal under EU legislation.

I'd be entertained seeing the likes of Mr Alexander forced to walk on the streets of Tripoli, without protection and with a big sign around their neck reading: 'I do approve of the UK government's arms exports'.

Deplorable - no other comment possible in view of Douglas Alexander's just seen response on Newsnight - simply deplorable. There comes a moment in human affairs and we are seeing one right now in numerous different countries when people no matter how oppressed and helpless rise up against greed corruption and violence and indeed against the machinations of the powerful, the politicians, the despots. To turn weapons on your own unarmed civilian population having already bled them dry is a crime against all humanity, there can be no future for that regime,what foreign government let alone the west, cynical and self seeking as it, is could possibly ever deal with them again ? Yet he refused to say they should stand down ! The unfortunate young lady opposite him spoke with sense and dignity. I am appalled.

Further from #42 above.

It would appear that you entirely missed the point on the Corporation Tax debate in that if multinationals only have to pay full tax on their UK operations they will be encouraged to shift production overseas. A license for manufacturers to steal all the UK's machine tools and relocate to third world economies with low corporation tax whilst retaining the theoretical brand advantage of their head office registered in the UK. Great for the stock market parasites in London but bad news for those employed in our real productive industry throughout our country.

TAX Dodging Yes I VOTE For That

Feed/Clothe/House Politicians/Terrorists/Killers

I DON'T THINK SO

THE DOG THAT DIDN'T BARK

Jeremy gave Lord West an easy ride - why? Does Jeremy not know that the 'facilitating errors' of our intelligence operators, ARE EXACTLY MIRRORED in the facilitating errors of the CIA before the 9/11 illusion?
The indistinct copies, cry out with embarrassment, they are so clearly MEANT to fail in their 'purpose'.

Isn't subterfuge what spooks do? The trouble is: that means you can never be sure who they are working for, or to what end. If Jeremy is not 'inside the lie', I expect better of him. The CIA circus, before 9/11, is all documented.

Excellent interview by Jeremy with Douglas Alexander and Huda, the Libyan Dissident. Alexander was put in his place by both of them, but still continued to support the dodgy regime. Disgusting! And to think that people in Paisley and Renfrewshire South voted for him.......

Murphy was spot on with his analysis about taxes, highlighting how HSBC did not make it's threatened move away from the UK to Hong Kong.

DOUGLAS ALEXANDER TYPIFIES THE AMORAL WESTMINSTER ETHOS (#47)

Politicians are only obeying rules (which Westminster wrote). Alexander's tone is the give away - TOO level. There could be a shape-shifter lizard in there. More likely, a consummate Westminster politician, who could go ALL THE WAY TO THE TOP. And what will that boil down to? We will have

GOT OURSELVES ANOTHER ONE.

DougLess Alexander more Miss Direction (AAH The Old/Nulabour Ploy)

Has DissaPATed Up its/his Own *ING Rymes with sing fling bling ming ding Ring etc

#32 China will soon become the no. 1 English speaking country in the world.

Ah there's more good news Mr KB they are converting to Christianity by the million, so all good citizens and ones we need.

The uprisings in North Africa and the Middle East....


.....hhhmmmm and when do the nuclear wars start?

Seen D.S.'s and Dead Slugs Think Quicker than NN MOD's

Re: 37. At 10:21pm on 21 Feb 2011, Mindys_Housemate wrote:

the Tories want to privatise EVERYTHING?!?!?!?!?




The local bus service ‘bought out’ by a multi-national. They settled in. Prices climbed, albeit gradually. The buses ran every 30 to 40 minutes. Published timetables equalled ‘toilet paper’.

They changed all the routes. Rural routes went from hourly to twice a day. Most routes that ‘toured’ the estates going borough edge, via the main shopping precinct, to borough edge without warning now terminated at the (multi-national owned )shopping ‘centre’, thereby requiring two charabancs to go ‘borough edge to borough edge’. Some routes went completely.

A competitor came on the scene.

They had - to encourage custom - a flat rate for each journey regardless of distance. They re-introduced - competing with the multi-national - ‘borough edge to borough edge’ on the main routes - still - for a flat fee. The number of passengers increased. And increased. And ....

The competitors buses became less frequent because of the number of pick-ups. Passengers got fed up waiting for the cheaper service.

The 'multi-national' responded. The main routes became flooded with their buses, every 5,7, 10 minutes. Often two or three would ‘convoy with 1,2, 5 passengers on each.

The competitor was eventually wiped from “the scene’.


The local bus service is still run by the same multi-national. They have settled in. Prices have climbed again. The buses run every 30 to 40 minutes. Published timetables have reverted to ‘toilet paper’....

Utilities, Public Transport, Public services et al.

You name it ......

Competition really works!





“the Tories want to privatise EVERYTHING?!?!?!?!?”


Well highlighted Mindys cohabitee (?)!

I just wish that our ‘premier’ late night news programme had picked up on the story!


Nn!

Lead, don’t follow!







Re: 38. At 10:27pm on 21 Feb 2011, barriesingleton wrote:

SUDDENLY DOMINANT DAVE HAS CLEAR ARTICULATED POLICIES But they are for Johnnie Foreigner. Mad dogs and Englishmen . . .



Excellent comment!

But, surely, you’re not surprised!

For us ......

They haven’t even got a viable “Plan A” !

Who do we blame for the revolutionary flames across the Arab world? Well I know who to blame: Jimmy Carter and the bloke who used to operate the water chute at Bellevue funfare in Manchester in the 1970s. yeah thats right..it goes way back to the 70s. Join the dots.

I originally thought Zbigniew Brzezinski had a hand in it...but I can't find him anywhere in the loop on this one. He's good mind, but this is too big an operation even for him.

Doug Alexander was operated by a Labour operative using remote control.
They've really improved on that software they're using...thay can't get it to work on the Jack Straw clone though...the original was flawed apparenty. That's what I was told anyway. Don't quote me on that as I was given it on-the-quiet.

on Libya, this is example of the regime's behaviour:

https://www.utopia-politics.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=33923&mode=linearplus


tWoT was a golden opportunity for Libya to rejoin the "civilised" community, and offered the regime not only new trade opportunities, but also a cover for Gaddafi to 'crack-down' upon his own dissidents, aka "terrahists".

our Govts were happy to oblige, of course they had no alternatives, any more than the world had when dealing with Bush. If the UK didn't sell the CS gas and snipers rifles, air-force etc, then the Americans or French would have. It sucks, but there you are. of course, we might wonder why our Govt was investing to manufacture crowd-control technologies, such as CS gas, or media-manipulation techniques to induce fear, especially racial/cultural fear, as that Ukrainian woman alluded to, and anyone who can remember life before tWoT can attest.

but what is the point of wondering? They do.

but i am sure many millions of British people are impressed, even humbled, by the outstanding bravery of the Libyan People, as they struggle to free themselves.

7/7. the attack came at the end of Gleneagles. My apologies to the relatives. This is what i have pieced together, i could be wrong on many, or all points. The attack reinspired UK 'determination' in tWoT, and ended the high aspirations of the Gleneagle Summit, that was supposed to hve ended world poverty by ending 3rd world debt, and ushering in a period of economic growth and human rights. Seems incredible now, doesn't it? But it was all there, and there was even a short film made about it, and the hope associated with it. Then 7/7 happened, on the final day. No more aid for the 3rd world, no more "ending of global poverty", it was 9/11, terror, torture, global war once again.

i wrote above it came down from Blair. It came down from his superiors. It would be nice to get shut of the whole lot of them.


multinationals close down local production. Now they won't even pay ANY tax - and that will allow them to buy ever more of the UK economy. How can a locally-owned British tax-paying company compete?

BUSINESS DOES NOT HAVE TO BE CORPORATE. BUSINESS CAN BE LOCALLY OWNED. BUSINESS DOES NOT HAVE TO TAX AVOID. Sorry for shouting. Was annoyed. ;)


tax-change: this will allow UK corporates to move ALL UK profits out of the UK! (wrote that before NN explained that exact point later). OM[B]G.

still too gobsmacked to comment. Except to say ABSOLUTE RESPECT to NewsNight for explaining it. What will be interesting to observe will be the KKKorporate media's reporting on this, after all the *owners* will all benefit to the tune of £Bns on this. Will they report it as accurately and honestly as Paxman's crew did?


in reply to that woman in a red dress - she quite annoyed me. ;)

"HOW COULD WE TRUST A GLOBAL GOVT WHEN THE CORPORATES CONTROL SO MANY OF THE CURRENT LARGE COUNTRIES/ECONOMIES????

THE ALTERNATIVE IS TO BUILD NATIONAL ECONOMIES ***WITHOUT*** CORPORATES!!!!

WE DO NOT NEED A TOTALITARIAN GLOBAL GOVT IN CAHOOTS WITH THE TOTALITARIAN GLOBAL CORPORATES!!!"

-more calmly though, the problem of course is that they are intricately entwined over our throats and stomachs, and i am not just speaking figuratively. And they have split operations over many countries, whilst Labour forces, unions and suchlike, are national. Even in the EU, there has not been harmonisation of unions!!

shocking oversight. Hmmm!

of course, many of these 'managers' cost 60 or more normal wages, and i very much doubt they can as good in their job as 60 other people with their own skills and experiences brought to the post. Here's a thought:

https://www.newstatesman.com/south-america/2007/08/argentina-workers-movement

[in answer to the last poster there, i would either say read the book itself, or that the groups will decide themselves - democratically.]


in the Ukraine they did not move to cooperatives, the Ukrainians were given two bad choices. That their 'Govt' is fearful enough to fence off the square in front of Parliament is actually a GOOD sign - the Leaders are fearful of their people. Any such Govt is surely not long to be in power. Are you listening, Westminster?


i prefer to hear from the young Ukrainians who were part of it than corrupt politicians who benefited.


paxman will be under attack from a lot of places now, all of us who understand please write as much support as possible, wherever it is needed.


btw, yet another way the Bush Regime [bleeped] us over:
https://www.utopia-politics.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=33326

nothing can show so graphically the truth of the so-called 'War on Terror', and what happened in these countries under Western-backed Dictatorships.

the People are finally rising, despite the oppression, and despite Western intervention. The end of global oppression could be in sight.

#57 JAPerson - i learned it from tonight's NN.... I agree with everything else though.

you might note though that it was during times of competition that the price came down and services increased...?

it was just that the richer company threw resources in to 'defeat' its rival. Only to hike its profit margin back up later at the expense of the residents. Either there needs regulation to prevent such behaviour, or else the bus services should be run as a coop, the staff owning all the shares. Not only do they have to face their customers - and the customers can complain directly to an owner - but if excessive profit is being drawn, then some can break off and form a competitor with their share of the company. This is the essence of what Adam Smith called "the Free Market". Everyone owns their own start-up capital, and can enter any market as worker-owners. You will note the difference between that, and the KKKorporate model. One is true Capitalist Free market, and the other is a reinvented relic from feudal ways.

it was the same in the East. Very few companies were turned into cooperatives, but the most profitable ones "bought out" by the management.

the KKKorporate structure was put in place, living standards dropped, and the "mafia" style Govt was given shape, as we learned from Wikileaks.

now 'they' are looking at the UK, and the remnants of the welfare state.


---i'm glad you refer to that as "non-viable"... ;)


#58: kevsey - ROFL!! :D :D :D

Mindys_Housemate #59.

"If the UK didn't sell the CS gas and snipers rifles, air-force etc, then the Americans or French would have."

if I hadn't sold the drugs to your child, some other dealer would have, honest..

too weird.

#61 jr4421: hey, i agree. My kids would be like that. They won't take prohibition lying down. Mind you, i hope there IS no prohibition by that time, and they will wait until they are adults before 'experimenting', just like Dutch teens generally do, there being little "cool" with doing it too young.


but back to the point - yes, the UK Govt sold arms, and those arms are being used to kill freedom-protesters. I wish they hadn't, but if wishes were fishes i'd be jesus feeding a million (or whatever) with them. Others would have sold them anyway. Lets just move forwards, its not an important issue, yet. People might be more than a little interested if they *continue* selling them though, you'd agree?

Mindys_Housemate #62.

"yes, the UK Govt sold arms, and those arms are being used to kill freedom-protesters. I wish they hadn't, but if wishes were fishes i'd be jesus feeding a million (or whatever) with them. Others would have sold them anyway. Lets just move forwards, its not an important issue, yet."

sheeple speek. translation: what good would it do me to be principled.

"People might be more than a little interested if they *continue* selling them though, you'd agree?"

no, I don't, since I think you are typical of the people and you'll remain in 'the herd'.

::goes to seek counselling for Post Insult Stress Disorder, or for short..... :: ^_^

whatever jr, - Baaahhhh, if it makes you happy.


wow, i almost feel as though i'm in the Commons, and that was Great Leader Millipede's best shot! :o

Mindys_Housemate #64.

"..Baaahhhh, if it makes you happy."

{mirthless smile}

it's my misfortune that reality has 'intruded', you'll know what I mean should it ever happen to you; meanwhile, I hope you'll retain your optimism, it really does help.

'MI5's chief of staff has told the 7/7 inquest that the security service cannot be held responsible for the 2005 London suicide attacks.'

What a curious line to take, by all concerned, from the spook to those reporting.

To this point, whatever tragic failings in prevention may transpire, those responsible have surely never been in doubt?

New Zealand

Are We sending PAX out THere Yet? Nothing on The BBC news at 0800hrs

Nothing on The Libyan Air Force Pilots Yet. Their Tale should say it all.

Apologies to Mr KB

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1359336/3million-migrants-came-UK-Labour-biggest-population-growth-1-000-years.html

From the article

At the same time, nearly a million British citizens left the country.

Ah so that's where all our doctors, nurses, scientists, teachers, social workers, educated people and rich went!

69 OH Yes Please

Cant Say I Blame Them

SKY ARTS 1 .. The Music Instinct

Could have Told them that 50 years Ago

The Words Are Secondary

Migrationwatch Survey

https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/

Andrew Greens comments

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1359367/Labours-immigration-policy-let-3m-defiance-British-peoples-wishes.html

IS ANYONE IN DOUBT THAT 9/11 GAVE AMERICA A 'LICENCE TO KILL'?

To kill anyone, anywhere, on a whim?

Well here's a strange thing: On the Today Programme (around 8.30am) BBC broadcast a piece on America and its military. It ran between 5 and 10 minutes duration, AND NEVER MENTIONED 9/11. The narrative that 'emerged' indicated that America is now way past jingoism 'AS A REACTION TO GUILT OVER VIET NAM NEGATIVITY'.

After spitting that one out, they had to buy a new spin machine! (I wonder if Tony - Dossier - Blair advised?) Based on current enquiry-trend, 9/11 will unravel shortly; watch out for censure and taboo suddenly descending on any further probing. AN AMENDMENT TO THE PATRIOT ACT PERHAPS?

Last night's tax expert, Richard Murphy, has already written about last night's interview in his blog :o)

https://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2011/02/22/facing-paxman-and-why-this-corporation-tax-reform-is-so-important/

73 I SinBinned Listening 2 The wrong Today Programe Years Ago, When they Sacked ?

Freddie Forsythe That was That for Me. JN born within spitting disapointing distance

CHANGING THE FACE OF THE COUNTRY - BOTTLED? (#72)

Once again the proof (if needed) that politics is a GAME and we are pawns on Westminster's board, stares us in the riot-bottled face, as the politicians who set us up, bottle - and run. (I have said before: Look at Blair. HE KNOWS WHAT HE DID. But he his such 'a mess' - Brown too - he has to 'keep running'.)

Governance is far to psychologically nuanced to be left to the ineptitude of politicians, with their law and PPEs. Politicians, are POWER SEEKERS, more precisely: THEY SEEK POWER OVER THE LIVES OF OTHERS (ask yourself why).

While the Westminster Ethos endures, UNQUESTIONED, politicians will ensure we all live within the lie. Revolution - the DISMANTLING of the Westminster Citadel, is the only way. If you know a better approach, say so. My approach is to

SPOILPARTYGAMES.

74 He's Right But He's Wrong

I did like The 1st reply .. All The Words/Worlds A Stage etc

WHATEVER HAPPENED TO OUR ENABLING CRY: "HE KILLED HIS OWN PEOPLE"

I remember a 'no fly zone' over Iraq. Military action is SOOOOOO selective, you might almost believe it is never about right and wrong - just political/material advantage.

Nuff sed.

In passing, if we put all the Iraqis, that the 'Coalition of the Righteous' have killed, INTO ONE MASS GRAVE - upon 'discovery', what might the proper reaction be?

I have reported before my rejection of work in tobacco or arms (denying myself a move to Devon, years ago). It looks as if others took those jobs. Ho hum.

72. Andrew Green covers every angle. All our posts, some censored, from the past five years vindicated! What worries me is that now we have admitted to the number that we will spend the next few years focusing on numbers instead of the cultural implication of those numbers.

If a person moves from one culture to a very different one - different family structure, social mores, legislature - and is given money to retain their culture of origin and on top of that is told that this is a democracy and they can vote for the type of society they want.....

and that is why I don't think that now is a good time for AV. Changes are being made as Andrew points out and it would be a shame to sweep away those changes by introducing more dissent.

A case in point as Andrew points to is the practice of community leadering. Where are we going with this cultural adjunct?

given how many tens of thousands died [and still are] in iraq and afghanistan due to us suppressing the 'people's will' to hysterical over libya where 'only a few hundred have died' looks bizarre?

its a bit backseat driver to pistol whip the spooks for one they missed given they were watching 800 already?

justin needs to be on newsround not NN

Looking at the news front page on the BBC, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/ this headline seems to be missing https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/8339075/More-than-three-million-migrants-under-Labour.html

Now I would agree the earthquake in New Zealand is important, and should be the headline. BUT no mention of the immigration survey research by Migrationwatch on the front page. Mass immigration is always something the BBC has always covered up.

THE UNSIGNED CHEQUE - THE INDISINCT PHOTO (#80)

Surely you don't buy the photo story, re 7/7 Jaunty?

Dodgy customers send unsigned cheques to gain extended credit. Dodgy intelligence agencies (governments) send a bizarrely degraded photo to gain what?

Don't dilute with 800 other cases - THIS CASE has a glaring anomaly. That is all you need to tell you that this is not a straightforward matter (and 9/11 is similar).

WASN'T THE VELODROME BUILT BY IMMIGRANT LABOUR? (#81)

You'll have to settle for that proxy Velodrome headline Lizzy.

And if, after the Games, having built it, they don't come, it can be converted into a mosque!

Result.

#54 and 69; no need to apologize if you don't really mean it.

Onward Chinese soldiers

Who read the Daily Mail

All of them quite fluent

And Anglican as well!

Peace,Joy and Blessings-sincerely meant-from Kashi Came Early with Tan.

Bhutan is poised to evolve into an organic country.

https://www.bhutantoday.bt/?p=3008

#74: mistress, you have shown tendencies towards the condems, what do *you* think of this move?


#72: lizzy, "migrationwatch" was set up deliberately as a right-wing, xenophobic propaganda pressure group. Whilst migration MAY have had ulterior motives, i suspect the give-away as to what that was lies here in the report:

"three in four new jobs created since 1997 have been accounted for by migrant workers"


the true scale of New Labour's policy is revealed. Those "new jobs" that were "created" were very low paid, largely unskilled labour, too low paid for normal Britons to take. To be honest, i doubt that migrants have particularly changed our "cultural" landscape, certainly far less than Bush and Blair's 'War on Terror' has. Now no doubt the Tories will "manage the system" so those low-wage jobs are now enforced upon Britons instead.

so to remove all the xenophobia, and statistics mangling, and fascist-style "OH NOES OUR CULCHAH IS A'CHANGIN'" froth, what this is about is supplying cheap labour for the UK ultra-wealthy to exploit. Driving down wages and household incomes. Now the destruction of the Welfare State. As was made clear last night, this move to "liberate" the KKKorporations from paying ANY tax in the UK, drawn up by New Labour and implemented by the Condems, the Big 3£ Parties are all in this up to their necks, and any 'challenges' thrown are simply attention-dividing strategies that have no substance once the votes are cast.

lizzy, you constantly talk up the "foreign-danger", what would you like to see done to the migrants already here in the UK? Expatriation? Concentration camps? What if those countries that took that 1,000,000 British, mainly Canada, Oz, NZ, and US, decided that the Brits were a problem. How would you like them to deal with British migrants? What about the millions in Spain and the general EU? What is your *solution* to this 'problem'?


#46 jr: he would probably be safe should he have done so. Muslims generally have a more 'realistic' view of the world than we Westerners locked into our cosy bubbles of relative affluence, and smug myths about being "democracies". Bear in mind that the UK has joined in with America's global attack on Islam that has taken many millions of innocent lives across the region, yet still Westerners are relatively safe to walk in Muslim countries. By "relatively", i mean they are as safe as they would be in any Western city, with the threat of violence and crime.

i agree with your emotion, and i agree that it should not have happened, and i agree that it should not happen in the future, and i agree that it is about principles. What more do you want? I just think in the wider context, with millions slaughtered across the region from illegal wars, invasions and occupations based upon lies, with the deliberate creation and inflammation of "Islamophobia" by not only media figures but also - clearly - some of those in the UK Parties, with the ongoing threat against Iran by America and Israel, the undeniable fact that the UK sold technology to enable Dictators to control and murder their people is perhaps the 'icing on the cake'.

btw, do you not think the Tories would use the same technologies upon *us*??


#82: why Barrie?!! Surely you would not imply that the UK Govt and its 'intelligence' arms has anything less than perfect reverence for every British life? That is a shocking imputation! Next you will be claiming that the UK Govt sent troops to Iraq under false pretences, or that deregulation led to pension fund raids leaving some pensioners to die early from poverty for Corporate profits, or that benefit changes will drastically reduce the quality of life for millions of Brits - again for the benefit of the KKKorporates. Where will it end??!!

repeat after me: "camoron is the Father of the Nation. We Love and Respect him. He has our Best Interests at heart."

it got the Russians through the years of Stalin, albeit with a lot of citizen-on-citizen spying, paranoia, and a few millions murdered in work-camps for criticising the Govt. Surely it can do the same for us? :/

39 years ago IRA Bomb in Hants Killed 5 Women A Priest and A Gardener.

Terrorisim Worldwide Now, how proud the ira must be

82

i buy the snobbishness that prevents communication. the uk is built on snobbishness. singapore fell because of that attitude. In the Falklands the guardsmen died in fire on the galahad because a guards officer was 'not going to be told what to do' by a mere naval officer [ie get off the ship before it was blown up]. And so on.

i can buy that officers were under extreme pressure. if you think who they recruit it'll be a 20 something careerist with a degree who will 'obey orders' because of their ambition to progress. from what i can work out their MO is through a series of thresholds. you focus on those who pass a threshold.

as for how you go to protecting secrets didn't churchill let Coventry get blitzed to protect enigma? so cities can be wiped out to protect a secret. which kind of makes anything possible?

i agree there is a lot of unexplained questions over the events surrounding 9/11 and 7/7 . The facts we do know is that the Straussians in their writings do support 'lies' to get the public into a war because they believe it improves public morality. So the soil is fertile for 'lies' against the public to promote a series of false beliefs.

so the motive and means were there.

#83 WASN'T THE VELODROME BUILT BY IMMIGRANT LABOUR?

Ha, yes Barrie it was 8,000 came in to build our olympic stadia.

Didn't I hear a labour politician somewhere saying that it would make work for British workers living in the East End of London or something. Or was that part of the dream, or lie, that it would make work for a poor area with little work.

Funnily enough the immigrants all came in and moved to the area to qualify!

A Very Windy 86, Do you Suffer From Wind

Talk Up The Foreign Danger? As Well as Wind Is your Real Name Rip Van Winkle

7/7 one my Children was on a School Bus in London .. is that 2 much for YOU

In ADDITION 16 of my Pals were Blown up in One Day .. is THat 2 Much for You

WAKEY WAKEY Smell The Stiffs

#86 lizzy, you constantly talk up the "foreign-danger", what would you like to see done to the migrants already here in the UK? Expatriation? Concentration camps? What if those countries that took that 1,000,000 British, mainly Canada, Oz, NZ, and US, decided that the Brits were a problem. How would you like them to deal with British migrants? What about the millions in Spain and the general EU? What is your *solution* to this 'problem'?

It's not the foreigness I worry about Mork, it's the numbers and the lack of work for British people. Yes it is a method of keeping wages low and emasculating british men, many of whom now sit on the dole and drink heavily. As I've said several times before my mother in law was an immigrant, but enjoyed living here and completely integrated into Britain. She came at a time when our population was around 50 million, about ideal for the size of our country, not the 65 million it is today.

Well presumably if there wasn't any work for new migrants, and business didn't employ them on disgustingly low wages, they would go back home, even EU ones. I understood if EU migrants live here and can't find work for a period of 3mths they have to return to their country, of course that doesn't happen they live off us. Apparently you have to be a higher rate tax payer to the UK before you contribute anything to the welfare system, so most never contribute they are net takers.

Oh there's far more than one million brits abroad mork, around 15 million at the last count, but of course there's real britains and passport holding brits who've never lived here.

I wouldn't mind at all if all the brits were sent back home, as it appears all the brightest and best leave, it might up our intelligence level a bit! Where have all the british drs etc gone?

Most of the people living in Spain, a country often mentioned in this argument, are retired pensioners, who make a net contribution to the country, and even have to pay for their care. But I read recently they are returning to Britain, as their houses have collapsed in value, their pension goes nowhere, and they can't afford the good life anymore. So hold on to your hat as yet more people return that will need welfare.

For workers in the EU I read the figure is around 250,000 brits, remember most go abroad to retire, not to work. I can't imagine a young person getting work in Spain anyway, unemployment there is currently 20%. And remember us brits are bone idle useless layabouts who can't do anything, so why employ them. Funny all my family seem to manage a 12 hour day at work.

Oh and New Zealand always sends home a brit as soon as they are out of work, they won't keep you on benefits!

I notice pro immigrant people always accuse others of xenophobia and racism, as the easy way to tell people off, there's never the argument of why so many people living on a tiny overcrowded island is a good thing.

#88 jaunty: yes, true words spoken. This is why wikileaks and 'citizen-journalism' are so vital. The first step in actually being a democracy is that the citizens need access to accurate information. What point accountability without transparency?

the second is of course accountability, those who lied should pay the absolute consequences, just as the Nazi leaders paid for *their* war-crimes. What point knowing what happened if you can't punish them?

is it really so shocking that those who 'rule' us (so badly) would "sacrifice" a few lives to achieve their own ends?

if the Condem proposals to exempt KKKorporates from paying tax, and their proposals to force millions into work that doesn't pay a living wage, and their proposals to privatise not only schools and the NHS but EVERYTHING go ahead, then million of Britons will die earlier due to levels of poverty the UK has not seen for a hundred years. (and as the link at #74 shows - this IS a *CHOICE* they are making!).

all to net these millionaires an even larger 'share of the pie'.

'they' care about Britons about as much as they do the Afghans and Iraqis - its just politically inconvenient for them if we work that out. And lets not believe that MI5 are in any way 'nobler' that the [bleeps] in Downing St and Whitehall.

"so the motive and means were there."

its just hard to believe they could be so utterly inhuman and callous, right?


repeat after me: "camoron is the Father of the Nation. We Love and Respect him. He has our Best Interests at heart."

lullaby, lullaby...

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

THE DISINGENUITY PRIZE GOES TO MORK

lizzy, you constantly talk up the "foreign-danger", what would you like to see done to the migrants already here in the UK? Expatriation? Concentration camps? What if those countries that took that 1,000,000 British, mainly Canada, Oz, NZ, and US, decided that the Brits were a problem. How would you like them to deal with British migrants? What about the millions in Spain and the general EU? What is your *solution* to this 'problem'?

Nuff sed.

#91: lizzy, you always make more sense when you lay things out in longer arguments.

yes, there is a problem with lack of careers. That is not the fault of migrants, it is the result of deliberately bad policies over the last 32 years. So why constantly blame the migrants? Who is it letting off the hook? And why fan the flames of the racists and xenophobes?


"if EU migrants live here and can't find work for a period of 3mths they have to return to their country, of course that doesn't happen they live off us. Apparently you have to be a higher rate tax payer to the UK before you contribute anything to the welfare system, so most never contribute they are net takers."

i think that measurement would take into account the costs of education and childhood. For migrants, other countries have already paid those costs, so "contribution" starts at a lower rate.


"I wouldn't mind at all if all the brits were sent back home, as it appears all the brightest and best leave, it might up our intelligence level a bit! Where have all the british drs etc gone?"

i have emigre friends - i was almost one myself. And yes, they were some of my brightest friends. Some live in NZ, and i am hoping they are safe today.

they left because of the overt corruption, and the restricting Class system that prevents any positive change. All who truly know the UK are aware that this Class system is the cancer eating at the heart of our country. If you put that in context - its also why there are so many migrants here from the ME, Africa and other Commonwealth countries.

if these revolutions are successful in their aims, then apart from these panic-refugees, there should actually be LOWER migration from these countries. And look at their extraordinary bravery. Compare them to the thug-like football hooliganist racism of the edl. Which would you prefer to have here fighting against these cuts and this Govt?

as to where have our doctors gone, the answer is retired, and the UK Govt have closed up medical schools and colleges in the last 32 years. Its cheaper just to steal other countries paid-to-learn experts in many fields - it means the UK ultra-wealthy can pay less tax, you see.

the raid on pension funds has created an ENORMOUS future black hole for the UK, not just returning pensioners from Spain. Again, not the fault of migrants, but a corrupt ruling class in the UK.


"And remember us brits are bone idle useless layabouts who can't do anything, so why employ them. Funny all my family seem to manage a 12 hour day at work."

in my experience Brits ARE bone idle useless layabouts. Until they get RESPECT in the workplace, because once again this problem lies with the Class system in the UK, started in the schools and maintained throughout their lives. Focus on the Class system, change the structure of the UK, rather than blame migrants, if you want some POSITIVE changes.

constantly focussing on the *victims* of the current policies - and that includes the migrants - will change jack squat.

policies to create good jobs, increase worker participation, and a Living Wage (all Green policies btw), would do FAR more than any amount of edl marches.

don't blame the migrants, blame the [bleepers] who created this mess.

#95 Yes mork if I had the time I would write more, but I have a great many people to care for, so my time on here is a brief read around the papers and this blog.

As you've answered most of my points, now answer this one please...

there's never the argument of why so many people living on a tiny overcrowded island is a good thing.

#85: interesting link, wap. Sounds like they have their heads on straight. Imagine what they could do if less than 1% of their population worked in farming, like the UK!

To BBC News night team,

You dont want to know the truth about ukraine, you allow gossip and chat in this blog, but when someone reports facts, you dont have the guts to publish it, why report half guesses and fiction and gossip? i guess i will never will trust this programme team. I didnot break aany houserules, so why my comments have been removed?

'OTHERWISE OBJECTIONABLE' (#98)

Those are your two key words from the House Rules Bruno. Try not to think rationally - that way lies madness. Try to remember that NewsyNighty employs a range of embellishments when 'reporting' to us, and that the rationale for doing so, defies explanation by the finest minds. We live in the Age of Perversity. Try to love Big Brother - you will in the end.

#96: lizzy, i'm aware of lacks of time, i just wanted to say when you DO write more, you make sense.


in answer to your question (a good one), i wrote this on the 4th of Feb:

"-Our population limit is based upon the amount of resources we can call on. If we can grab, or purchase, food from other countries' surpluses, then we can maintain a higher population. Also, if we can gain extra energy, then we can make agriculture or manufacturing, or travel, much more productive.

-you understand? The limit of the UK's population is fixed by the resources, not by land-space. Another thing we can do, to either increase population or to make us more secure, is to be more efficient with what we already have.

-for instance perma-culture farming, uses advanced methods to avoid the use of pesticides and fertilisers, so it uses far less oil. We also, for instance with forest-farming, get more back per acreage than the current mono-culture farming.

-we would become more efficient, and thus have to take less resources from elsewhere. And we could support the population we have now - and more. The population will fall of its own accord though, as women's education means less of them want to be mothers, and have the chance in our advanced Society to pursue other careers."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/newsnight/fromthewebteam/2011/02/friday_4_february_2011_1.html?postid=106074343


i also would like to see the UK becoming more self-sufficient, but i do not go so far as to blame those who came here simply looking for a better life. I blame those who slashed the medical colleges, who refused to make the minimum wage a Living Wage, who have slash, burned and privatised vast swathes of the basic Welfare State, and run much of the rest down as far as they can, i blame those who actually CAUSED the problems. If we want to lower the population, apparently the Big 3£ Parties all argue that taxing the super-rich, or the KKKorporate blood-suckers, will make them leave. Thieving leeches who refuse to pay tax.


i'd prefer to have in the UK people who work hard without demanding mega-£Bns in "bonuses", i don't know about you. That sounds to me a better way of reducing "excess" population. Not picking on normal people who just want to work hard, and take home reasonable pay. Even if they were born in foreign lands!


"...many of my closest friends are foreigners...." ;)