Tuesday 23 February 2010

THE CENTREFOLD PATH

Of course the war can be won. What is more we will dedicate ourselves to their uplifting - bringing power supply (privatised) water supply (privatised) TV (degrading) Big Mac and Coke (fattening) a health service they can't afford, confused women and emasculated men. Sorry - I forgot democracy.

Of course the war can be won. But as the Buddha said: "The problem with winners is there have to be losers."

Just ban the use of Oil and Religion and we would not need a defence budget at all.

If we keep loosing key industry like Corus Redcar appeasing the eco-fascists with carbon tax type policy etc we will have no nation left to defend !

2. Jericoa 'Just ban the use of Oil and Religion and we would not need a defence budget at all.'

Slight problem there Jericoa. That would require effective governance, and these wars are all designed to prevent that!

A carry-forward from last night's GS-AIG...Get the picture?

Bloomberg Markets reports in its April issue. Representative Darrell Issa, the ranking Republican on the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, placed into the hearing record a five-page document itemizing the mortgage securities on which banks such as Goldman Sachs Group Inc. and Societe Generale SA had bought $62.1 billion in credit-default swaps from AIG.

These were the deals that pushed the insurer to the brink of insolvency -- and were eventually paid in full at taxpayer expense. The New York Fed,
which secretly engineered the bailout, prevented the full publication of the document for more than a year, even when AIG wanted it released.'

Bloomberg 23rd February 2010

Ecolizzy - the more stupid the population (the better, for some)?

Jeremy's "f" word last night has made it to all the papers :o)

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1253190/Jeremy-Paxman-forced-apologise-air-swearing-Newsnight.html


Source: https://www.guardian.co.uk/media/mediamonkeyblog/2010/feb/23/say-it-like-you-mean-it-jeremy


Source: https://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5iMlVOlpXQNW4b2qW-d3aCFoqLxvQ

If anyone was offended by it - then they should GET A LIFE :p

given the spineless response to the israel infringement of our sovereignty isn't one of the greatest security threats that of foreign states placing people within our political system either through a system of patronage or those philosophically harmonious who bend uk foreign policy to suit their interest?

such as the attempt to turn uk armed forces into an anti foreign insurgency army?

as long as endless praise is heaped upon the armed forces why should they change the culture of bullying and human rights abuses of prisoners? Why is it right to ignore that, as the occupying power, the military failed in their geneva conventions responsibility of establishing security? If they knew they could not fulfil those obligations they should have said no. but they didn't. they wanted in.

since Blair has gone why are we still fighting his wars?

#2

Jericoa

Ah, but there remains also the question of 'prowess'. It's when the three are all muddled in confused minds, chaos ensues.

The programme does sound interesting tonight. I wonder whether they'll be talking about the American, British and Franco cooperation? I've been working on it myself.

mim

6. Mistress76uk 'Jeremy's "f" word last night has made it to all the papers :o)'

Wow...

Hey.... maybe you should think about paling up with brightyangthing?

6. Mistress76uk 'If anyone was offended by it - then they should GET A LIFE :p'

Actually, any grown up, rational, person might think that anyone who takes such an obsessional interest in such trivia 'should GET A LIFE'!

That's true you know.

@ Statist - I always say the more the merrier ;o)

'We will be asking crucial defence questions - can the war in Afghanistan be won, and when will British troops there return home?'

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Sorry to be the usual pain but the question does not 'make sense'

What do you mean by 'won'?

Clearly, the mysterious Afghan enemy will not be 'subdued' and if not to be subdued by force or purchase then the only other option is to win by annihilation of the perceived section of the Afghan population that are guerrilla fighters comprising the 'enemy'.

Since, the NATO coalition has no intention of 'annihilation' then can the question be asked properly?

Can the Afghan guerrilla fighters be subdued?

Can the NATO coalition organise a particular form of Afghan civil war that causes a preferred outcome for that 'US driven coalition'?

This isn't being pedantic - Can we please get the debate above the level of achieving a 'win in Afghanistan' - because that is very primitive and if there is no real justification for being there other than to organise a particular outcome from an Afghan civil war - then Britain should withdraw immediately and unilaterally, if need be.

If these are the 'crucial defence questions' - please can the BBC, for once in a long time on this, really ask the crucial defence question(s) and get them right?

#8
#8
Jericoa

I don't think much of my English at #8. It should have been, perhaps, Franco-British-American or simply American British and French security cooperation or something like that but not the way mI put it in the first place.

It would be good to see the Poles involved as well but this time with PO involvement as they seem to be the most sensible and pragmatic force in Polish politics. That's at least in my view.

And in addition, as far as the British contribution is concerned it is the Royal Forces I'm talking about with no particular party afiliation.

mim

ROYAL NAVY FUNDING EITHER NEEDS TO BE INCREASED- OR IT OUGHT TO BE DISBANDED!!

Why is a technologically up-to-date, adequately sized & properly planned Royal Navy- possessing both sub-surface and surface combatants that are 'fully equipped'* with weapons, communications and defensive systems needed?

Answer- "Falklands' war tested modernized Super Etendard in Argentine Navy's agenda", 21_02-2010:

https://en.mercopress.com/2010/02/21/falklands-war-tested-modernized-super-etendard-in-argentine-navy-s-agenda

..." The possible transfer to Argentina of a refurbished model of the French manufactured fighter-bomber Super Etendard, which had an outstanding performance during the 1982 Falkland Islands conflict, is under consideration by the French Ministry of Defence, reveals the French publication, Mer & Marine..."

(*instead of dangerously 'stripped down', virtual shells, as is the current Labour govt-dictated practice/plans for the undergoing construction/entering service new Type-45 Destroyers & big deck aircraft carriers)

_________________
Roderick V. Louis,
Vancouver, BC, Canada,
[Personal details removed by Moderator]

Gordon Brown said today that he wanted to 'set off a chain reaction in our schools' in England.

Listening to his speech today, I really did get the impression that he truly is an ignorant man. A more informed person would not be able to say many of the things that he said without looking as uncomfortably self-conscious as Michael Gove did!

AIR POWER FROM THE SEA- THE CASE FOR CONVENTIONAL WEAPONS' TRIDENT SUCCESSOR SUBMARINES

The (Trident missile armed) Vanguard submarine successor programme provides a cogent example of a UK defence spending issue that, if done right, would provide the UK with hugely increased capabilities to project deterrence and prosecute conventional and irregular warfare/counterterrorism operations around the world...

Labour's policy to substantially reduce the UK's (Trident or Trident successor) submarine launched nuclear ballistic missile capabilities doesn't require building only 3 Vanguard submarine successor subs to 'replace' today's 4 Vanguards since the new subs- at least today- are intended by the Labour govt to each have 25% less nuclear ballistic missile-tubes than each of today's 4 Vanguards (12 versus 16):

https://www.janes.com/news/defence/naval/jmr/jmr090420_1_n.shtml

If 4 Vanguard successor subs are built (rather than 3) their total number of missile tubes will be only 48 (4 X 12) which equals the total number of missile tubes of 3 of today's Vanguards: 3 X 16= 48...

But why build only 4 Vanguard successors?

At least 8 are needed...

And these new subs are needed to be 'full-sized', IE: 24-missile-tube vessels (similar to the US's Ohio class and Ohio class successor subs), instead of the strategically-foolish 12-missile-tube models relatively recently 'decreed' by Labour...

If 8 Vanguard successor subs were built, then 4 could be tasked with a (Trident successor) nuclear ballistic missile submarine (SSBN) role with the other 4 fitted as conventional-warhead Tomahawk guided cruise missile subs (SSGN's)..

Experiences of the US have shown that 'dual tasking' of this type of submarine can be very productively facilitated:

Between 2003-2008, 4 of the US Navy's 18 Ohio class Trident nuclear ballistic missile subs (SSBN's) were refitted, converting these subs into SSGN's...

22 of each Ohio sub's 24 Trident nuclear ballistic missile tubes were each fitted to accomodate and fire 7 Tomahawk conventional warhead cruise missiles, instead of their previous configuration allowing for 'only' one Trident II nuclear ballistic missile to be accomodated per tube...

As a result, each refitted Ohio can be armed with up to 154 Tomahawk cruise missiles (each one carrying a 1000 pound warhead) as compared to the barely 1/2 a dozen maximum number of Tomahawks that current Vanguards and entering-service/undergoing construction Astute SSN's can be armed with...

The other 2 missile tubes on each refitted Ohio sub were converted to serve as lockout chambers for Special Forces personnel. Each of these two missile tube chambers has been equipped to connect to an Advanced US Navy SEAL Delivery System (ASDS) or Dry Deck Shelter (DDS).

Other spaces on each sub have been converted to berth and support 66 Special Forces personnel.

As a result of their retrofits, for over 2-years the 4 refitted Ohio's have been usefully deployed as conventional warhead Tomahawk cruise missile-armed/special forces' units-carrying (SSGN) subs:

"The (US) Navy's Premiere Counterterrorism Tool":

https://www.informationdissemination.net/2008/10/navys-premiere-counterterrorism-tool.html

"Navy Trident Submarine Conversion (SSGN) Program: Background and Issues for Congress" October 02-2008:

[Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]

https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/ssgn-tactical-trident-subs-special-forces-and-super-strike-01764/

8 Vanguard successors coupled with the 7 Astute attack subs (SSN's) very belatedly being built/undergoing sea trials for the Royal Navy would provide the country with force-projection capabilities that would legitimately give serious pause to known and potential state and non-state aggressors in the future and would at least partially make up for the egregious damages done to the RN's surface combatant strength and capabilities over the last 12-years...

Damages that won't in the least be rectified by the 6 Type-45 Destroyers and 2 aircraft carriers that Labour has begrudgingly committed highly inadaquate funding for the construction of: these urgently needed warships are being built without basic, industry-standard weapons, sensors, communications, ship self-defence and damage control systems- due to Labour govt design-interference and in order to save money...

CONTINUED



Roderick V. Louis
Vancouver, BC, Canada

AIR POWER FROM THE SEA- THE CASE FOR CONVENTIONAL WEAPONS' TRIDENT SUCCESSOR SUBMARINES

PART 2:

Members of the US Congress have indicated in a recent report that they want the design of the Common Missile Compartment (CMC)- intended for use in both the UK's Vanguard SSBN successors and the US Navy's Ohio class SSBN/SSGN successors- to be such so as to enable CMC's to cheaply, efficiently and relatively easily switch between the SSBN and SSGN mission profiles:

https://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/cpquery/T?&report=hr166&dbname=111&

- "Navy Attack Submarine Procurement: Background and Issues for Congress", October 21-2009:

[Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]

Page 14-

"...The committee believes that it is in the national interest to maintain the submarine design industrial capacity to begin development efforts for a new class of submarines which could either continue the mission of the current Ohio-class strategic submarines (SSBN) or serve as the next generation of tactical guided missile submarines (SSGN)...

"The committee is also aware that the United States has agreements with the United Kingdom to jointly design and develop a common missile compartment (CMC) module which would be used by both countries for construction of next generation submarines...

"The committee supports both the development of the CMC and the cooperative manner in which research and design costs are being shared by the United States and the United Kingdom.

However, the committee is aware of the combatant commanders' desire for increased presence of the recently converted SSBN to SSGN submarines due to the significant tactical strike and special operations capability those platforms can deliver.

"Therefore, the committee strongly encourages the design of the CMC module account for a non-strategic use with minimal back-fitting...."
---------------------------------

- "China Naval Modernization: Implications for U.S. Navy Capabilities- Background and Issues for Congress", October 21-2009:

[Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]

- "Navy Irregular Warfare and Counterterrorism Operations: Background and Issues for Congress", October 08-2009:

[Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]
---------------------------

Strategies for maintaining the UK's submarine- & other military vessel types & related technologies- innovation, design & construction capabilities several decades into the future should prominently factor into decisions made regarding the Trident/Vanguard submarine successor issues...

Similarly, decision-making processes regarding Trident/Vanguard successor design issues should be considering the UK's global 'industrial, technological and military competence and capabilities' profiles and how whatever decisions are made will effect these profiles...




_______________
Roderick V. Louis,
Vancouver, BC, Canada

Current threats to the British realm and people-

1. The government, which is destroying our freedoms, engaging in torture, wars of aggression, conspiring in banking crimes etc etc.

2. The Banksters who are destroying our economy via systematic and systemic fraud.

3. The USA which still has not handed over convicted IRA terrorists that they have given asylum to and is allowing the backing of so called 'Republican dissidents' which is really the Provisional IRA in all but name.

4. Israel which is paying politicians to support policies contrary to the will and interest of this country and people and engaging in crimes that put all of us at risk.

5. The Police that refuse to turn up to crime scenes let alone investigate, who are more interested in protecting Tony Blair than prosecuting him, that engage in propaganda campaigns via ACPO while real daily crime is now classified as merely 'anti-social behaviour'.

Afghanistan never attacked us, they attacked New York, a city that is a center for the support and funding of IRA terrorism, and the attacks of 9/11 brought home to America that terrorism is not the noble acts as portrayed in Hollywood films about the IRA, but is a horrific and terrible crime. Perhaps it will take another, worse, 9/11 to stop the current IRA from their continuing attacks.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

Having listened to OUR politicians I have to conclude they scare me more than the Taliban.
It's clear they have no idea what they are fighting, they have an end game which at some point will be declared as having been achieved. Yet within 6 months of leaving Afghanistan it will revert to being an Islamic country with all that entails.
Originally we we went in not to fight anyone but to capture Osama bin Laden, since when they change the goal posts with false declarations that we are there for the women and to defend the West and democracy, Islam doesn't do Democracy as we understand it. Even at that point where do we then go, Somalia, Ethiopia, Sudan, Yemen, Iran or Pakistan the real source of Jihad organisation? Russia tried with all the might it had and threw the towel in. The west needs do get real and do the same and not make any other Soldier pay the price for Political ignorance.
No matter what the Politicians say - the enemy is already in the West and Britain is high on the list the Jihad organisations in the West.
What did the Government do - They invite 5,000 Halal Butchers to come to Britain.
As Richard Littlejohn would say 'You couldn't make it up'!

I do wish you would give more information on your site. The ?UN? man was spot on. There can be no victory while the present, US installed President remains. He is committed to maintaining corrupt, 'tribalist' Pastun / Pastunwali rule over the majority non Pashtun population and thwart any attempt to change that, which inevitably includes attempting to thwart what the allies are attempting. In the last election, Dr. Abdullah probably received more real votes, and he would have supported and brought change for the good, but the allies allowed the reinstallment of the man called the Lord of Fraud, the Taliban with a tie, and are now allowing him to take over the supposed UN appointed election fraud commission.

Very sadly not a good programme. Newsnight lurched from major strategic issues such as the long term future of Afghanistan and the future size, shape and role of the UK Armed Forces, to the views of an ex-soldier in the RLC and of an injured Serviceman's mother on the care of her very badly damaged son. In addition, you collected a pretty wacky set of people together. Ms Anti-War, Peter Galbraith and Simon Jenkins all represent views at the extreme end of the spectrum, whilst Mr Paxman more or less forced the three former senior servicemen to have a pretty linear discussion justifying their individual services.

You tried to squeeze in far too much and as result failed to address some of the serious issues facing us in Afghanistan and in a future Defence Review. No one from the FCO - why not? Surely you can only discuss what you want the Armed Forces to look like when you have decided what our global role should be.

Newsnight should be able to deal with these issues - Defence, Afghanistan, terrorism and foreign policy in depth and giving a sense of the complex issues involved. You produced a disappointing and lightweight programme. Sad.

Outstanding Jeremy on Newsnight tonight :o)

I was disgusted to hear that the injured soldiers have to rely on money from charitable organisations to be able to fly to Oklahoma to get prosthetic limbs, and on top of that they do not get any help from the government for caring for the wounded troops. How on earth are injured soldiers supposed to fund their care for the next 60 years? Not all of them have families who can support them. Doesn't the government owe them at least that much? Where is their duty of care?

@ #22 TheAuk - It's a pity Newsnight didn't have an extended programme. I found the programme to be inclusive of every viewpoint - ie - balanced and fair. I suspect the FCO didn't want to attend so didn't.

9/11 OFFICIAL CONSENSUS IS NO MORE 'SETTLED' THAN CLIMATE SCIENCE

Fools or knaves? Do Dannatt and other UK war-supporters, who cite 9/11 as causal to our military action, all know nothing of the mass of conflicting information around 9/11? Have they no knowledge of associated informed dissent, on the rise, across America?
Or is it that we are mired so deep in this American-sought, Blair abetted, IDS rubber-stamped, adventure, that no one knows how to escape without massive censure and recrimination?

I have absorbed much of the available 9/11 data. Only fools and knaves would make it a cause for invading Iraq and Afghanistan. 'Evil doers' had a hand in this. Now we must ask (like Statist) which evil doers; who gained?

One thing is sure: Britain is going to look very silly, if we don't already.

Worth quoting Gladstone from 1879 in one of our other wars in Afghanistan:

"Those hill tribes had committed no real offence against us. We, in the pursuit of our political objects, chose to establish military positions in their country. If they resisted, would not you have done the same? ... The meaning of the burning of the village is, that the women and the children were driven forth to perish in the snows of winter ... Is that not a fact – for such, I fear, it must be reckoned to be – which does appeal to your hearts as women ... which does rouse in you a sentiment of horror and grief, to think that the name of England, under no political necessity, but for a war as frivolous as ever was waged in the history of man, should be associated with consequences such as these?

Thanks to Craig Murray for pointing that one out!

THE ART OF UNBIASED REPORTING (#23 24)

Hi 76uk. As your assessment of 'Jeremy' is always 'outstanding' (#23) I look askance at your assessment of 'balanced and fair' (#24). Should you declare something more than 'interest' in Mr Paxman?

IT IS ALWAYS EASY TO STATE-BULLY THE LITTLE GUY. (#26)

Government has no conscience. Political parties have no conscience. One aberrant leader can engineer a war, especially if devious, plausible and messianic. Ironic that with all the fuss about bullying at home, we are still beastly to Johnnie Foreigner. Cruel Britannia.

The Westminster Ethos is the enemy. Westminster needs cleaning out as a cow-shed after foot and mouth, and re-stocking with integrity.

Oh Barrie @ #27 - credit where credit is due, and Jeremy is outstanding :p
As for the balance issue - well they showed differing viewpoints and gave each one a chance to say their piece. There wasn't a bias towards pro/anti war, so isn't that balance? We even had the woman from Stop The War Coalition too........

#28

Poor little Adolph :-(. Why don't you write a few stanzas for the misfortunate, singie?

..There wasn't a bias towards pro/anti war, so isn't that balance..

no. the bias must be towards the good. otherwise its just moral relativism. which excuses lies and bad behaviour and calls it 'just another point of view'?

is a glass of clean water the same as a glass of dirty water? the moral relativists will say there is no difference and that 'to be fair' one must not discriminate against the glass of dirty water. The refusal to discriminate results in the pig society.

I agree with the Auk. Much too big for a 45 minute slot. Don't start with the 'establishment' idea that if in doubt raid the defence and diplomatic budgets, stick close to the EU and everything will be OK. The real way back to prosperity and international clout lies in standing on our own two feet, rebuilding the manufacturing and maritime trading position which has made us rich for 400 years and the defence and diplomatic stance that supports it. Fail here abd we just get ignored. JP was dreadful: it is time for him (and othe NN anchors) to stop interrupting people and in effect 'so what you're saying is ....' when they're not saying that at all.

18. turbojerry 'Current threats to the British realm and people'

Excellent post.

That's a set of 'allegations' which an astute Newsnight Production Team would be working on.

Last night's sSecial was rather weak in my view. Only 1/3 of female children are educated in Afghanistan? What about here, what about elsewhere in the world (Africa) are we going to invade them too? To what level do we manage to educate the bulk of our population now? To what benefit does the ever growing number of 'educated' females put their education? Look into the subjects they choose to study, and look at the economy! What good does it do?

All I see is lots of argumentative (otherwise unproductive) ninnies.

These are the sorts of hard questions which should be asked when covering female (and male) education in Afghanistan and in other non-liberal countries. To what end liberalism? Look at birth-rates!

Furthermore, if we have 175,000 military, how many does China and Pakistan have, and why aren't they the major forces of 'liberation' in Afghanistan. Pakistan has a population of 150,000,000 and is just next door. China, 1,100,000,000, socialist, and not far away either. Why are we there?

Responding with a hissy-fit isn't intelligent - look at the evidence, ask rational questions.

Conjecture: most of what we have been seeing in foreign and domestic policy over the past few decades has been in defence of free-market anarchism, which serves the socio-economic interests of one group disproportionately (see the past neo-con Chicago Boyz ventures).

This is in the objective figures, and it's in the news disproportionately, so why not cover it much more explicitly Newsnight?

That would inform and educate.

20. Mentor 'It's clear they have no idea what they are fighting, they have an end game which at some point will be declared as having been achieved. Yet within 6 months of leaving Afghanistan it will revert to being an Islamic country with all that entails.'

But in the meantime, the gullible UK and US electorates will have had their daily doses of 'Islamists/Muslims are evil-doers' (they're anti-usury and don't send their women out to work/buy - very anti free-market), and the interests of Israel (against their local Muslim in Palestine) and free-market libertarian bankers in NYC etc will have been served well....

It's an 'evil' domestic political propaganda war, I reckon.

PS. Don't be taken in by all those who say 'I just don't see it'. They're just not very perceptive/bright. We've been churning out more and more of these types in recent times!

7 jauntycyclist
Luckily foreign politicians, broadcasters and journalists are not so ready to collaborate with the Dubai murderers. The latest news from Ireland is that two of the people travelling on Irish passports gave false Dublin addresses when they checked in - one didn't exist, the other was an empty property owned by Albert Reynolds' brother. We know from Germany that the man travelling with German documents got them by submitting false Israeli documents and claiming that his parents had been German and that he therefore qualified for German citizenship. He also gave false addresses. Not only are most newspapers and journals round the world covering the story but so are most broadcasters. EuroNews, France 24, Al Jazeera and Press TV, to name the most easily accessible, are following the story. The leaders of other countries have not been so mealy-mouthed in their condemnation of the outrage.

Joannie Rochette - Bravery in the face of adversity

Joannie and her Mum had a big dream
For the young lady a medal to win.
Joannie is Canadian though not from Vancouver
So she travelled with her Mother and Father,
And when they arrived her Mum suddenly died.
But she did face the challenge and rather than cry
And withdraw from the Games she did go on ice
To honour her Mum doing her pride!

After the short programme, Joannie currently holds 3rd place in ladies figure skating in Vancouver.

This partcular part of the ice skating competition was characterised by a very high level of quality of skating with hardly any falls and lovely interpretations of chosen music by just about all the ladies.

mim

34

because that would mean looking at philosophy ie the ideas that guide the minds of people that stem from certain beliefs.

it would mean saying some philosophies have more good in them than others which is 'discrimination'. no organisation dominated by moral relativism will ever be allowed to go down that road.

as long as those false beliefs remain unexamined they can perpetuate themselves in that darkness.

it's probably unrealistic to expect that level of philosophical competence to even ask the right questions even if they were allowed to?

to be fair modern academic philosophy [so called] is so dry and arcane people rightly ignore it as being useless. Whereas we see everyday philosophy is that which drives the mind. Puts the wind in its sails and has very real effect. So real philosophy has vitality.

take the banal case of the celebrity Cole saga that is plastered across the media as 'top story'. it shows you can have a world class skill, have lots of money, fame, adoration yet still fail as a human being.

what is clear is when people get their philosophy wrong great crimes [of all types] are the result. which is why it needs careful attention.

37. jauntycyclist 'it's probably unrealistic to expect that level of philosophical competence to even ask the right questions even if they were allowed to?

to be fair modern academic philosophy [so called] is so dry and arcane people rightly ignore it as being useless. Whereas we see everyday philosophy is that which drives the mind. Puts the wind in its sails and has very real effect. So real philosophy has vitality.'

Two points.

1) Philosophy used to be a clever person's subject at university. In studying Anglo-American philosophy one both modern logic and the nature of language as a means of expression. One learned how language is used (and abused) to articulate true and false statements. The business of the actual discovery/production of true statements is not, in fact, that of philosophy, but of the empirical sciences. Philosophy became the handmaiden to the sciences, and a good one in my view, helping scientists to more clearly state what is true and how to look for more.

2) This is been messed up by sending too many incompetent people to 'university'. There are just too many people who wrongly think they have been educated. They don't know what they are talking about. This is why so much is going wrong.

Imagine a factory where people are putting together aeroplanes. When told off for using the wrong tool or component, the first response of workers today is to argue or complain or make out it doesn't matter. They make out they are being bullied, or their rights violated. Try critiicising most females for wrong doing and see what happens. Why does this happen? Why is there sucha sex difference (all over the world, so it isn't cultural)? Why are most females so obsessed with appearances, image etc at the expense of reality (answer mate attraction/retention).

Sadly,it's all about lying/deception if you think about it. But, why is that OK? What are the social and economic costs in terms of stability? Is this why the Islamic world appears to be so harsh on their women? is it because they deceive more, and that their men see the cost more clearly?

This is a very simple proposition, but it's also a powerful one. Their numbers are growing, dramatically (here and abroad). Non Muslims are shrinking (here and abroad). Do a projection.

22. TheAuk 'Ms Anti-War, Peter Galbraith and Simon Jenkins all represent views at the extreme end of the spectrum,'

What 'spectrum' is that? You befuddle.

As I watched and listened, it seemed that those three were the only ones who spoke clearly about anything. Jenkins made a prediction too.

This entire 'war on terror' has been a domestic propaganda war and one which has taken advantage of the majority of the US and UK people (see bank bail-outs and future cuts in Public Services to start).

And...is it even deception as such? Might it just be a relative poverty of a kind of awareness in females, i.e. a poverty in a kind of intelligence? The kind which is needed to build and to reliably engineer/sustain etc?

Is this why nearly 80% of the Chinese legislature in the most sucessfully socialist nation in the world, is still so disproportionately male?

If this is all wrong, please Newsnight, just explain the figures - and please note, these figures do speak very loudly all over the globe if one only goes and looks.

24. Mistress76uk 'It's a pity Newsnight didn't have an extended programme. I found the programme to be inclusive of every viewpoint - ie - balanced and fair. I suspect the FCO didn't want to attend so didn't.'

A serious question for you: Has it ever occurred to you that one of the reasons why this country is now in serious decline is because so many people have been induced to be 'inclusive' and to 'consider every viewpoint' etc?

In the end, it's a formula for inertia. Have you seriously considered that?

I thought Newsnight was good last night but I ought to watch it again on the iPlayer as I was very tired and kept dozing in and out due to a medication I'm on at present. Next time I'll wait and take it after watching anything again on the telly.
I won
From what I did see, different points of view were given and there seemed to be also, on the whole, respect between the people in the made up studio at the Imperial Museum.

By the way, I won't give any reasons for what I'm going to say next but methinks there are too many pretenders to the throne around. I wonder whether some of them have not learned to treat metaphors as figures of speech rather than taking them literally.

mim

ooops 'one studied both modern logic and the nature of language as a means of expression.'

CONFUSED BY LANGUAGE? (#40)

Now you've done it Statist.

I am under the impression that the pre-verbal child does some quite neat thinking (a position I arrived at by observing behaviour/strategies). I draw the conclusion that verbal thinking may not be the only sort available to us. Then I am confronted with the idea that 'clever' goes with 'verbal' (including recorded/stored signs) and it leads me to complimentary possibility that 'wise' might prosper in the non-verbal mind.

Has The Ape Confused by Language oppressed the non-verbal; the intuitive, holistic approach to life in ESPOUSING (advisedly) the sterile, linear, CLEVER path to this fouled nest?

Could it be that the Female (person and principle) holds the key to our way out of this mess, but having been persuaded to 'be a man' has suppressed her own form of thought and expression, to the point of SEEMING to have nothing to offer?

Scope for a bit of philosophical thought there perhaps. (By which I do NOT mean quoting ancient 'Heavies' ad nauseam.)

the main belief is that afghanistan is vital to uk security. Taliban pose no threat to the uk. As for AQ if we invade every country where AQ has 'support' then this will be a never ending unwinnable global world war.

why do they want to kill us?

We never invaded ireland or the usa to deal with the IRA.

The IRA came to the table after Special Forces was allowed to target and take out its members anywhere around the world. Which backs up the conclusion of the RAND report that counter terrorism not 'war' is the correct method.

Tony Blair type invasions is not the basis on which the uk military should be shaped. I'm suprised the uk has no anti aircraft missile system.

the fractious in fighting between the services was enlightening. Maybe it is time to merge all three into a united armed service?

'A front-page story in the state’s China Information News said the record $34bn sale of US bonds in December was a "commendable" move. The article was republished by the National Bureau of Statistics, giving it a stronger imprimatur.

It follows a piece last week in China Daily, the Politburo’s voice, citing an official from the Chinese Academy of Sciences praising the move to "slash" holdings of US debt. This was published on the same day that US President Barack Obama received the Dalai Lama at the White House, defying protests from Beijing.'

Telegraph 24th February 2010

This is a little something for those preoccupied with cosmetic interests. Will they look at their actions and grasp the consequences?

There's far more at stake here than the vanity of ninnies....but can that ever sink in to those to whom appearance is all?

44. barriesingleton - 'I am under the impression that the pre-verbal child does some quite neat thinking'

Ah, 'impressions' - they are grossly over-rated - they are made up. Without languages (of one kind or another, from maths to BASIC), what is there to think about and what is there to do?

The job of Modern Philosophy is essentially to help students not to be confused by language. We have plenty of apes amidst us alas, of both sexes too, although far more females than male. That's a language thing. A sex difference.

45. jauntycyclist 'As for AQ if we invade every country where AQ has 'support' then this will be a never ending unwinnable global world war.'

Hence the Neocon Project For A New American Century.

The problem is, so many people have seen through all this now, that it's in wind-down. Whilst no educated person believss a word of this anymore, th sad fact is that the liberal-demcoracies are full of really stupid people and they do the electing!!

#45 jauntycyclist wrote:

"The IRA came to the table after Special Forces was allowed to target and take out its members anywhere around the world."

------------------------

That's funny!...I thought it was HMG who 'came to the table'...after the IRA bombing of The Baltic Exchange and Canary Wharf!

STATIST (#47)

No further questions.

#5 statist

"Ecolizzy - the more stupid the population (the better, for some)"

If you're talking about the far right they would have to be very very stupid to believe in the race "realism" that underpins their racial policy. There used to be a real head banger jaded_jean who posted/ranted on and on about eugenics and race "realism" plus holocaust "agnosticism"/denial until the science behind "The Incredible Human Journey" and Channel 4's "Race and Intelligence".

Never hear from that saddo now. Funny really.

Incidentally I note that those who have expressed support for the BNP are also becoming blander and that with typical "intelligence" Griffin calls the EHRC "a sniveling quango" over racial membership but has not decided to cite the vast amounts of "evidence" that science has that shows that, supposedly, there are significant racial differences in intelligence. Then he goes on to say that they had been meaning to do it for years.

So when push comes to shove the far right are an empty vessel intellectually. You are better off looking at the motivations of the many would be far right bombers and Baby P batterers and such like we have had over recent years to obtain a better understanding of these latter day Haw Haw's.

#44

Singie

I would agree with you that thought is not predetermined by words and enducation alone. One day I might write if not a book then a longish rhythm & rhyme thing on the subject.

Personally, I'm thrilled to bits by having found a few different ways of exploring the 4-lingual verbal fountain I've managed to absorb into my grey matter and then streamline its outflows be it in writing or in fact in conversation. I'm still expressing quite a few thoughts at the age of 55 that were already present in my mind when a child or a teenager. But more often than not I just couldn't do it while now I do it with such ease I sometimes have to pinch myself to believe it's happening. So there you are, that's what the power of love, care and real support can unleash!

mim

44. barriesingleton 'Scope for a bit of philosophical thought there perhaps. (By which I do NOT mean quoting ancient 'Heavies' ad nauseam.)'

OK, a bit of male on male called for here then? Good 'O'!

I reckon you may be an ape confused by language (except they are usually females). Have you seen any pre-verbal infants running countries (effectively), programming computers, designing and building planes, cars, buildings in your neck of the woods. Answer....NO! If you look into it, you won't find thgat many females doing such things either. They are the ones massively confused by language.

No quoting 'ancient heavies' either - what? No Wittgenstein, no Church, no Post, no Turing etc? You just want modern light-weights? OK, then you'd be far better off reading Women's Studies and Derrida then ;-)


Apes confused by language indeed. Modern philosophy got there first mate!
It's still largely a male preserve, like maths and engineering!

50. barriesingleton 'No further questions.'

Good 'ere innit mate?

#52

syngie

do you think you know who I'm talking about in the last sentence?

I thought last nights piece was overall a disappointment as I was very interested in the strategic review but it seemed to be too conflated with AfPak.

The latter can be "won" in my view - a satisfactory resolution rather than a "Waterloo" victory or loss - provided Pakistan responds to the very real threat to their democracy. As ever the thought of a nuclear armed al Qaeda, via Pakistan, is one of instant conflagration and total instability.

At this time they do seem to be arresting Talib leaders and though I am sure we need to see their perspective there is better coordination with the US and their sovereignty is not being abused.

Their interests are being served.

But how changeable the world is can be shown in the Chavez stance that Argentina would not be alone over the Falklands in a war. I have always been sympathetic to him but he does sound more like the charismatic revolutionary leader in Woody Allens Banana's who on being elected President decrees that people must wear their underwear on the outside so they can be checked for cleanliness and that he should receive his weight in horse manure as tribute from each citizen.

He had a beef domestically but you either believe in democracy and international law - surely the way forward for a long running dispute - or you don't.

But if they don't then we would need those aircraft carriers and the navy much more than boots on the ground.

I would hate to find out after a second war that in fact legally they were right and we were wrong. But given the length of time that has passed I assume that to highly unlikely.

What is Mexico's position as a member of Nafta?

In the Huffpost:

'The White House made it official on Tuesday: the president doesn't think the votes are there to get a public option passed through reconciliation and consequently won't make a push to include or pass the provision.'

Although I think Obama is the most able President I can remember and has a lot of integrity to boot with two wars and an economic crisis would he not have been better to wait for a year ebfore trying to push this through.

As others have noted criticism comes from those like Palin - whose son Tripp benefits from the "communist" public health system.

Meanwhile as Jon Stewart (Daily Show) pointed out about Glen Becks description of all things "social" as communist - Beck "taught himself" via books in the public library. Of course the library is a communal effort.

From this side of the Atlantic you can see how the worry over the US domestic political decision-making is over ridden by the increasingly ludicrous and unhinged logic of the Republicans.

Also how close will the Republicans become with big business and what effect will the Fox-Palin merger have on their democratic process?

Meanwhile nobody on this side of the Atlantic seems to be prepared to delve into what went wrong under Cheney with regard to Iraq reconstruction and oil contracts. Why wouldn't we get the same tendering problems that Panorama covered some time back?

Could Cheney run?

#33

Your conjecture is incorrect as no bid cost plus contracts with the likes of Halliburton are not free market. To quote Benito Mussolini -

“Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power”

58. turbojerry 'Your conjecture is incorrect as no bid cost plus contracts with the likes of Halliburton are not free market. To quote Benito Mussolini -

“Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power”'

Think about the ambiguity here. Statism just requires the means of production, exchage and communication to be publicly owned. Workers work for the state and the govenment is a dictatorship of the workers (because everyone works for the state). This was basically what Italy and Germany strove for, as did Stalinist USSR, and it's what Stalinist China does today too, and very successfully too. China has some private sector enterprises, but that is probably strategic. See what Deng said about flies and killing them later. You have to accomodate all sorts to make any system work.

The USA has long been anarchistic, i.e free-market, i.e. prone to private sector monopolies (e.g the Fed). Government is designed to keep regulators as the state at bay. Hence the banking crisis and the cynical exploitation of a massively gullible/ever more stupid public.

It is, form a humanistic perspective, a very ugly, predatory, system. It's why there was a Cold War. It's why there still is a Cold War.....and the USA is now losing...

Remember that footage of the riots in China in 1989? What many here don't take on board is that to the Chinese, Democratic-Centralism (Stalinism) is the epitome of democracy! Many were violently protesting at the liberalisation of the system as was being done by Gorbachev! They were actually defending Stalinism! They didn't like the corruption which was creeping in through liberalization. That's why Tony Benn pointed out at the time that they weren't talking about our kind of democracy.

People here are really really stupid and we are making more of them. They have been brainwashed. People across the liberal-democracies shout to support their own exploitation, even when they see it all about them day after day! The sad thing is that most of them really don't see it, as to them, what they don't see just isn't so! Now that's the epitome of stupidity. IT REALLY IS!


Try to think about it. Really really hard...... ;-)

saw the programme and thought it worthwhile but cross and braid mob were given too much time and Ainsworth looked out of his depth, not for the first time, the Guardian columnist on the back row wasn't given enough time far less than the generals and the bufton tuftons, the mother spoke the most sense......

From yesterday's blog #82 Statist wrote:

"80. ecolizzy 'What's funny is the convervatives don't make more of this social engineering.'

Not omnce you appreciate that they are anarchists too. The Race Relations Act came in under them. You have to see Conservativism as libertarianism - i.e as anarchism. New Labour just does the same. They both fight for power, but their ideology is basically the same. Think football - two teams, same game."

----------------------------

Do you agree then that this makes 'New Labour' even more despicable than the Tories who (at least in recent historical terms) espouse to be the party of/for business?

How did Old Labour manage to morph into New Labour without anyone noticing?

I would be very interested to hear your views on this.

re #60

(and despite Barrie's comment about quoting ancient 'Heavies' ad nauseam)

'None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. - Goethe

...I'm sure everyone remembers this story...
https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4293502.stm

RULES OF THE WESTMINSTER PARTY GAMES (#62)

Rule one: gain power. Rule 2: hold on to power.

Old Labour had no chance of power - they still had the odd ideal. They made a pact with Blair who demanded: "Give me a free hand, and I will give you the illusion of 'party in power'." (In truth, of course, HE held the power.) Even if they realised what they had done, Rule 2 clicked in, and they were stuffed.

Desperate small-minded wannabes do despicable things to gain power.

The rest is, indeed, history. And its reading will take a strong stomach.

'How did Old Labour manage to morph into New Labour without anyone noticing?'

Some did, not enough to matter.

Most of the electorate is politically naive/stupid. They don't pay attention to details. As soon as New Labour ditched Clause IV (to make itself electable) it effectively ceased to be Old Labour (which had some very sensible, essentially Soviet/Webbian policies in 1945) and became another neo-conservative party (look how many trained in the USA).

I don't think the USA would have allowed an Old Labour Government in UK (or in Continental Europe). That would have been Stalinist/Statist. After all, the USA had gone all over the world undermining/bombing Stalinists/statists wherever they could, and constantly threatened the USSR with ICBMs! It wasn't the USSR was the aggressor.

This is simple, and obvious stuff surely?

The cost today (and in the future) will be our NHS, state education, energy suppliers (means of production), communications, transport ....etc. It's been a total disaster for the UK (or what little remains of it).

Sadly, most people here just don't care, about anything but themselves. Self-centeredness and selfishness rules their lives, that's all. Most don't see what's wrong with it. They are like children. They are stupid. Children are basically stupid.

#60 Statist

I'm interested in why 'Stalinism' has effectively been much more successful in the Far East as opposed to the West.

My theory on this is because of the cultural differences between the Far East and the West being a major factor. Having worked for a Japanese company for a few years and spending time in Japan and Korea (and receiving cultural differences training etc.), the main difference between the two cultures is the importance of 'self' vs. the importance of 'the group'. Loyal Japanese workers work very hard/long hours, not primarily for themselves, but for the benefit of the the group/company/country. For a person to be seen as materialistic or 'status-hungry' is considered poor form. The more ability that you have and yet the less you wish to own, can elevate you to a very powerful position within a company structure.

If you visit Japan, you will see the phrase 'Ambitious Japan' printed on the sides of their bullet trains (or Shinkansen). Can you imagine that being written ont he sides of our trains....thought not!

64. barriesingleton - Yes. Sadly.

In the 40s, 50s, 60s and 70s many who went to university (5-10% of a year group) fully intended to serve the public out of duty. By the late 70s that started to change. It took a while to sink in what was going on, but for many it was all too late. It's been 'glacial'. Political changes ('reforms') are always glacial when they're not revolutionary. This country has been destroyed. Young people don't see this as clearly as older people. They will. :-(

66. freemarketanarchy 'I'm interested in why 'Stalinism' has effectively been much more successful in the Far East as opposed to the West.'

I think you're basically right, Japan was also part of the Axis (anti-Comintern Pact) during WWII and basically, if the truth be known, so was Stalin and the USSR! At root, the East Asians are brighter and more conscientious than Europeans, who, in turn, are brighter and more conscientious (as a group) than Africans. It's also a maturity thing, ie. one can see intelligence as a function of maturity. Another factor is that the USSR was subverted by anarchists (sent in by Germans originally who were largely Jewish). These are the people who now make the liberal-democracy run, and very good they were at it too - it's just ocming to an end for them.

As you know, the Chinese and Japanese etc also look very different from Europeans. In the USSR (and USA/EU) it was much easier for the entryists to mingle and subvert, wearing two hats so to speak. One can use anarchism to bring down any state, and in my view that's what has been done to the UK/EU and now, the USA too. Hoist by their own petards.

In the end, children want stabiity.

Here are some more statistics from the politburo. I have seen some of the distant relatives of these cadres in our supermarket, and I'm telling you, they are not to be messed with. They are shock-troopers!

Respect!

The debate last night confused the future of Britains defence needs with the necessary debate regarding how well equipped our troops were for defeating the Taliban.The emotional arguement about troop needs was mixed with the more rational logic required to understand our defence requirements for the next 20 years. I believe that inviting such a large panel was a mistake and an opportunity to consider the argument put forward by Simon Jenkin was missed.Jeremy Paxman should be given the opportunity to confront all three branches of our armed forces with how our precious future defence budget should be spent. I feel the political element should almost come after the logical appraisal of our needs. Last night was a good idea executed very poorly.

#59

What are the means of production? For example the means of production of computer software was put in the hands of me and many friends of mine by markets in the form of VIC20s and ZX80/81s when we were kids and this resulted in huge innovations and a significant computer industry in Britain. If I'd been in a Statist economy my means of production would have been extremely limited, perhaps not much more than a machine I could work at a tractor factory. Public ownership does not equal public good.

The US Federal Reserve was created by the Federal Reserve Act of 1913, not by market forces. The US system is significantly government controlled, whether we are talking about bailouts for failing automotive companies that have been going on since the 1970s or what Eisenhower referred to as the military-industrial complex. The most open market in the US has been high technology which the politicians have not understood and therefore have interfered less with. There have been people who have spoken out about this, while the likes of Noam Chomsky are more well known, there have been others, one of the most significant being US Marine Major General Smedley Darlington Butler who wrote the book War is a Racket in 1935, perhaps one of his better quotes is-

"I spent thirty-three years and four months in active service in the country's most agile military force, the Marines. I served in all ranks from second lieutenant to major general. And during that period I spent most of my time being a high-class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism.

I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all members of the military profession I never had an original thought until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of the higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service.

Thus I helped make Mexico, and especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenue in. I helped in the raping of half-a-dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers and Co. in 1909-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras 'right' for American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.

During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. I was rewarded with honors, medals, and promotion. Looking back on it, I feel that I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate a racket in three city districts. The Marines operated on three continents."

Of course he wasn't the only one in the military who saw there was a problem with the direction of the US-

"It is part of the general pattern of misguided policy that our country is now geared to an arms economy which was bred in an artificially induced psychosis of war hysteria and nurtured upon an incessant propaganda of fear."
—General Douglas MacArthur, Speech, May 15, 1951

Neither of the above statements show a system of a market economy, merely an economy driven by select powerful interests.

71. turbojerry 'What are the means of production?'

Energy (coal, gas, nuclear etc) and raw materials (steel etc) required for industry. The issue is whether these, like the means of communication (i.e post, telecoms, transport etc) and exchange (e.g. banking) are in public or private ownwership.

This is just basic political-economics. if you look back to the 50s and 60s and early 70s, most of this was in public ownership in the UK.

'If I'd been in a Statist economy my means of production would have been extremely limited, perhaps not much more than a machine I could work at a tractor factory. Public ownership does not equal public good.'

That's a counterfactual. You don't know. We can look elsewhere where they had computers, see China today. It's statist. It's also doing very well. Most of our computers are made there too, and everything else! I suggest you look at what is going on. The Stalinists have us by the short and curlies.

You still don't get it. Market-forces is another name for lack of governance (i.e. anarchism) so that naked capitalistic monopolies can emerge. This is done by spreading 'human rights' as individualism and freedom. It's called 'Planned Chaos'. It undermines states. Have a look at the Austrian School (Von Mises site will do - see Hayek). It's US policy. It was Ayn Rand's too, and the Chicago School's (Monetarism). Listen to Greenspan, and watch FRONTLINE's 'THE WARNING'.

PS. Chomsky is an anarchist.

China / Hong Kong are mercantilist, and while some industries maybe partly or fully owned by the State there are those that are not. Chinas economy is based on the cheap production of goods designed and marketed outside. I would agree that Maos China was certainly Statist. China does have computers now, ones with Intel and AMD chips in them as there are not the market forces within China to create a native computer industry.

Anarchism is based on a lack of rules, however markets require rules to function, for example those who sell goods and services deceptively are subject to fraud laws, there are nuances that may be required for different industries, for example the selling of securities are subject to additional fraud laws, the deliberate lack of enforcement of such rules by the authorities concerned does not equate to a free market, merely a deliberately distorted one that has caused the current economic crisis.

China's position is one that is highly dependent on markets outside of its borders, it does not have internal markets that can make up for the loss of markets outside, it is also at risk from the possible sovereign default of the US. While many highly intelligent people have been debating who might benefit from the current economic turmoil, I have not seen one argument that has proven to be correct, because of the lack of any clarity I have witnessed most of those who invest / trade markets for themselves withdraw in the last two years and investment forums go from speculation about money making to speculation as to what governments will do, to speculation as to what are the best handguns for self defence and what tools and seeds are best for growing your own food.

73 turbojerry

Please look up and study the Chinese constitution. China is still Stalinist. HK is a SEZ. These are their means to destroy their ideological enemy, i.e liberal-democratic anarchism/capitalism. Look up the SCO membership too.

Please look up anarchism (libertarianism). Thatcher/Joseph were anarchists. The US system is also anarchistic.

Look past the domestic spin.

Statist

Thank you for replying.

72 Statist

I'm glad you advised Chomsky is an anarchist!...as I read this recent article in Gulf News in Dubai last Monday and was very confused!

"Israel's conscience keepers"
https://gulfnews.com/opinions/columnists/israel-s-conscience-keepers-1.586481

I was lucky enough to visit Dubai over the last two weeks....not bad for a country that doesn't fully embrace liberal democracy!

Very low crime rates, very civilised culture. People can leave their cars unlocked and front doors open without fear of crime. Kids can travel around, on their own, without fear...vrom themselves or their parents!

Very high standards of living btw.

I happened to meet a guy from Iran....he frightened the life out of me!

....only because he drove the Toyota Landcruiser, that I was sat in, at impossible angles over the sand dunes. He has lived in Dubai for th elast 21 years.

Even took may family to just outside of Sharjah in the desert, so as to experience Arabic hospitality....i.e a bellie dancer and a couple of beers and excellent Arabic food and hospitallity. Probably one of the best experiences of my life with my family. I could not have met more of a gentlemen last Sunday evening.

Honestly my only conclusion is that the Arabs are truly a peace loving race.

Go figure!

#76 Are you being sarcastic freemarketanarchy?

https://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/the-dark-side-of-dubai-1664368.html

It's a lot to read I know, please read no 3 and no 10, it will show you what the poor workers think of the place.

And many, many people killed and injured on their building sites.

pointless show, three prevaricating politicians and a benign panel answering the wrong questions with equally wrong questions.

can anyone tell me if any of the politicians are members of 'friends of israel' lobby or similar links?

What would France do if Nova Scotia, Newfoundland or Canada decided that the tiny* Saint-Pierre and Miquelon islands- adjacent to Canada's east coast were not appropriately 'France's overseas territory'- and demanded that France relinquish them to Nova Scotia, Newfoundland or Canada??

(* less than 1/40th the land mass size of the Falklands)

https://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/country_profiles/4562487.stm

https://maps.google.com/maps?sourceid=navclient&rlz=1T4GGHP_enCA364CA364&q=st.+pierre+and+miquelon&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=Saint+Pierre+and+Miquelon&ei=QluHS9qAO47ctgPOho2GAw&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=image&resnum=1&ved=0CAgQ8gEwAA

https://www.st-pierre-et-miquelon.com/english/index.php

How would this be viewed by France's allies?

How would Nova Scotia's, Newfoundland's and/or Canada's allies view their demanding for-themselves a postage stamp sized piece of territory that for-over-two-centuries has been France's overseas territory?

What if Brazil or Suriname decided that it was innapropriate for (South America's) French Guiana to remain a France overseas territory and demanded French Guiana for themselves- would France just say 'OK' and leave French Guiana and its EU space-industry bases??

https://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/country_profiles/3516572.stm

https://maps.google.com/maps?num=50&hl=en&newwindow=1&rlz=1T4GGHP_enCA364CA364&q=French%20Guiana&aql=&oq=&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ns.html


_________________
Roderick V. Louis
Vancouver, BC, Canada