Spot on Mark.



its completely dull.



no tension or excitement...no emotion.



but then computers dont have emotions.. so i shouldnt be surprised by that lol

The ONLY review I'm interested in seeing from last Friday's show is the one for "Fred".

I want to see if Simon was as genuinely annoyed as he sounded.

And did he *really* storm off...?

Eagerly awaiting a video of the Fred review. Hopefully it's a full-on physical performance by the good doctor à la the epic Bride Wars review.

On mouth animation, what of the animation formats do you think creates the most realistic mouth movement?



Films like Toy Story, The Incredibles and Wallace and Gromit, while cartoony in their style, I think have much better facial expressions than realistic CGI like Beowulf.



Avatar did the exact same thing with the motion capture techniques and it produced some of the best visuals in cinema history. However, because they weren't creating human replicas, rather aliens with human features, I think they could take more artistic license with facial expressions because they weren't human.



I think in Tron and Beowulf the problem that they had was that they are trying to make their facial expressions too subtle and not cartoony, but I think they need to try mixing around with the styles to create the most realistic results.



Sorry for the long winded talk on mouth animation, but overall the film was dull, great effects, but they couldn't be backed up by the story or characters.

Don't agree with this one Mark.

Sure, 'TRON: Legacy' might be a little flawed in it's storytelling but there is a rich father-son relationship in it's centre.



What most people are missing about this movie, much like with the original 'TRON' is that these films aren't about typical Hollywood story-telling conventions, they are about technology and it's advancements. Now I know that's no excuse for any lack of substance but this film as a visual experience is mind-blowing, just like Lisberger's original. You are meant to experience 'TRON: Legacy', not watch it as a standard picture.



Daft Punk's score was also incredible.

I have to agree with Mark , it is oddly dull .



I think the main problem is that despite the overall look being impressive I didn't think or feel that we were inside a computer or computerised network , it looked more like it was set in some futuristic real world + so had nothing to elevate above similar futuristic films .



The original film may look dated now but watching it again you can see they really were trying to imagine + recreate the inside of a computer network and as such that film has a certain feeling or charm or spark about it that is totally lacking from the new film .

I wasn't as thrilled with it as I wanted. The night before, I watched the original on DVD and enjoyed it a lot, but the new one has no charm or heart. Looks fantastic, and an interesting score (which I've been playing on Spotify ever since) but it IS a disappointment. With some spoilers:



https://streetrw.blogspot.com/2010/12/tron-legacy.html

Perhaps Mark's obsesion about Jeff bridges mouth hides a subconcious sexual attraction to the dude?

The Fred review was a classic on friday I was watching the live stream and it was very funny and wittertaining

Aaaaarrrrrgggghhhhh! Once again 'Not Available In Your Area'.... So I had to listen to the podcast.



But, I don't agree with your assessment of Tron, Mark. I do agree that a lot of the performances fall flat (especially Michael Sheehan's), but I never found the movie dull. The FX were impressive to me, most notably the de-aging of Jeff Bridges. It was written with much less tension (and a sense of wonder) than what the original provided, however, I think this is one of those rare cases where the visuals were SO well done that one can overlook the major flaws in the story/plot and still be entertained. At least I was entertained.

Not seen Tron Legacy yet, but can I just point out something I've not heard anyone point out yet. The original Tron was a visual feast (for it's time) but I remember being 16 and thinking, wow amazing special effects, but christ this is boring. Didn't stop me seeing it 10 times thou.

Hey Mark -



your worries about mouth movement are absolutely astute and correct. it has been studied and corroborated that puppets and animation are stunting children's ability to speak correctly.



in one such study a small child, of about 4 years of age, was going to be sent on to speech therapy. just before that happened a researcher requested the opportunity to study the child's habits and determine the cause of the impairment.



looking in to the child's home life the researcher discovered that the television viewing habits included primarily animated and puppet content.



by simply putting the child in more contact with real people, and real people on television, the impairment corrected itself to a great degree.



puppets and animation do not include the myriad facial movements that help to create our words. just watch Simon as he works his way through a sentence. my god! the amount of work that goes into chewing up a sentence!



please do a small bit of advocacy on behalf of real people in film and on television. cheap, procured animation created by young adults with little life experience and large, money-sucking studios lead to an overall impairment of our children. and that sucks!



btw, i came to love the podcast years ago whilst painting the outside of my house. in those days Simon was a bit more background and let you do your thing. as a result i learned a great deal about the movies you reviewed and discussed. these days Simon seems to treat you a with a bit more contempt. by letting that happen, your viewers have responded negatively to the rude behaviours on display. in my humble opinion this is because of Simon elbowing his way in to film criticism where his clearly dilettante attitudes have diluted the program to barely listenable. recede the Simon and watch your listenership explode.



you're one of a kind ...



thanks Mark -

Electronic Jeff Bridges Lips! I love it!

Haven't seen the movie yet but will hopefully get to the cinema when the snow clears. I totally agree with you Mark, even in the trailer you can see how poor the mouth movements are. It is genuinely baffling that this can't be done well. I guess it shows just how complex the human face is, with its myriad of movements and expressions.

Even Nick Park does it better on Wallace and Gromit!

I really cant agree with those that think Daft Punks score is anything other than average. I realy felt at times in the film that is actually went against the scene in which it was used and added nothing to it and in fact didnt suit it at all.



Another odd thing I found that was a couple of times I looked over the top of my 3d glasses and found the images on the screen to be better than those that you were getting through the glasses.



The visuals were not all that great in this film and the 3d yet again added nothing to the film. The visuals in the original were more striking than this.



It just wasnt engaging enough and had no real flow to it.



Think the only thing that was kinda neat was the poster of The Black Hole in Sams bedroom lol



All this films does is prove yet again that effects dont a movie make, right up there with the daddy of them all T2.

Yet another mandatory please upload Fred The Movie review. Otherwise I have to agree with you Mark about The Big Lebowski. No need to see it again, I've seen it a few times and guess what? ...it's still rubbish!

I enjoyed Tron Legacy in parts. I think it's main problem is that it gets to talky and navel gazing in the middle. And it felt a film with the DVD extras left in. A good edit and slightly different approach to some of the concepts and it would have been a winner.



I enjoyed it all the same.



And it didn't need bloody 3D!!!!!

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

I agree completely that the script for Tron Legacy is dull - something other than an off-the-shelf number could have made this great. Although I thought that all the "references" to other films worked rather than made it feel derivative. It knew exactly what it was doing all the time.

But what impressed me about it was that the look still held up, even after thirty years. Sure it's now whizzy CGI instead of hand-inked frames, but it still felt fresh.

BBC has deleted my message as they thought it was spam lol. Looks like they've had they're sense of humour removed since the Sachsgate incident, much like Simon Mayo's during the Fred The Movie review.

I have no interest in Tron: Legacy. I just thought I'd login to add to the list of people demanding an upload of the Fred: The Movie review. I was watching the live feed and it had me in hysterics (unlike the actual film, I assume)!

On a completely seperate note I have just seen the trailer for Pirates of the Caribbean 4.

First the good points:

Ikea Knightly and Orloomdo Bland aren't in it (instead we have Penelope Cruz and Ian McShane)

It's not being directed by Gore Verbinski

It appears, at least from the trailer, to marginally more coherant than Pirates 3.

But on the downside:

Kieth Richards does make an appearance

It's being directed by Rob Marshall (he may have won an oscar but his last film was Nine)

Anything would be more coherant than Pirates 3, and this is still a Pirates of the Bloody Caribbean Movie.

I feel sorry for you Mark, at least the rest of us can choose not to go and see it.

p.s. Let's see the Fred review!

wrong wrong wrong, the Dr defo has it wrong on this one. Anybody who is over the age of 35 not a computer programmer might have enjoyed the first tron, maybe, and maybe didn t enjoy the new tron, the simple answer is they just don t get it. Like i find sound of music dull, or gone with the wind a bit over hyped. i m a film graduate and video maker, tender age of 28, and whilst i love certain slow works, fitzcarraldo or la dernier combat, now all i want is red hot (blue in this case) graphics, kick ass sound track performed by dudes in helmuts and sheen with a laser gun walking stick thingy.



its a film for my generation, for the youff. we get it, we always got it, storyline wasnt oscar worthy, no, but then again, did we really expect the hills are alive with the sound of tron?

I went to a midnight showing and for me any moments where the film felt ploddy the film quickly managed to bring back the tension back with good music or something exciting. I thought the film was fine.



I particularly liked the dinner scene between Flynn and his kid.

So I've just got back from the midnight showing at the iMax.



And actually thought it was a good film. I mean, yes the plot wasn't great. But I'd gone with the view that the strength of the visual effects meant there would be no decent plot (see Avatar for similar reasoning!)

I thought the music was great, powerful and worked well within 'The Grid'. I enjoyed the performances, especially of Jeff Bridges and Garrett Hedlund.

The only thing that bothered me was, as you rightly pointed out, the lips on Clu. The problem was that I listened to your review prior to seeing the film - so the first time he came on screen I looked. Otherwise I don't think I would have noticed nearly as much. There were scenes later in the movie where I think it is more obvious because of the close-up on his face. It did, however, remind me a lot of the animation in the Shrek films - the same lips/mouth movement. Bizarre.



My favourite scene's? I liked the opening section with the motorbike race through the city set to music. Couple of other similar scenes throughout the movie - focusing on the city/landscape around with great scored music to match.

On the duel subjects of video games and facial animation, has anyone seen any of the recent trailers for Rockstar's LA Noire?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obg9sUPC5bA



They seem to be using a technique that very directly maps an actors slightest expressions onto an animated character and I must say the result is rather convincing indeed. The other knock on of this is that you have real actors taking on staring rolls in a video game... not just as a voice actors, but real 'on screen' talent. If such a technique becomes more widely adopted I can see it having a huge impact on the animation of real people in both films and games.

After seeing the film a second time, with a different lot of friends, I have changed my opinion on the film as a whole, while the plot is basic and the characters rather one dimensional, I think the overall feel of the film is great. The visuals (although dimmed slightly by the 3D glasses) and the music (which I always thought was a brilliant score) is great. It is let down by a weak script, but it is an enjoyable film, although I would have preferred to see it in 2D, however my cinema was only showing it in 3D.

Just wanted to to wish Mark and the rest of the crew a very Merry Christmas and hopefully a dwindling 3D 2011 (baring that have a good one)

From being a trifle uncertain about the film at first I suddenly realised at some point that I was actually really enjoying it. Not a great film, not one of the top 5 of the year, but good solid entertainment for me, and I loved the soundtrack...oh and as someone who shared Dr Kermode's dislike of 3D I have to say I thought it worked here, hell probably the best film I've seen in 3D...and that includes Avatar. Most annoying part of the cinema experience though? Having to watch the Pirates 4 trailer twice, once in 2D, then in 3D!

Bloody hell Doc; your review practically mirrored mine on my way home, word for word. The slowness, the dullness, and how I tried so hard because The Dude was in it. And yes, I did spot the mouth bit. They seem to have a problem doing wrinkled lips. Thats the easiest way I can put it. I don't remember the same problem in Benjamin Button. Is it the same process? Or was it easier because the age gap between present day Pitt and younger Pitt wasn't as great? I don't know. I also felt I'd spent two hours in those glasses and never even witnessed 3D. It must've been too subtle.The adverts before being far more impressive.

One thing's for sure, I walked out feeling I'd never bother watching it again.

Nostalgia for the 80s, some flashy special effect and a great music score (though ripped off from nay other recent movies from Bourne to transformers and even inception) cannot save this massively flawed film.

My review https://wp.me/p19wJ2-7b

You haven't seen The Big Lebowski!!! Shocking.

Just seen Tron in 3D. I wish i hadn't bothered. Apart from the odd bit, i couldn't really notice which bits were in 3D and which weren't! Perhaps that's the whole point of it, that you are not supposed to notice. In hind sight i wish i'd seen it in 2D now as at least i would have seen it without a dark filter, lesson learnt for next time. Avatar was the same for me, good film in 3D, good film on DVD in 2D, so what's the point! For the film it's self, i liked the original one, although it was no masterpiece and for this sequal, again no masterpiece but enjoyable, so in that respect is was just as good as the original. What else could anyone want. And to be honest, i was one of those who believed the hype before i went to see Star Wars Episode 1 (which i saw in the cinema 10 times, i know sad) and haven't watched since! So i was no expecting Tron 2 to be a great film and was plesantly surprised that it was okay. In fact one i'd be happy to go and see again, if not least for the fantastic soundtrack, which i brought straight away.

Saw Tron:Legacy last week with Mark's review ringing in my ear...looked great but dull.

Maybe it was because my expectations were low but i really enjoyed it. It looked great, the Daft Punk score was excellent and I wasn't bored once.

The original Tron is now hailed as a classic piece of cinema, but everyone seems to have forgotten how it was seen as dull too.