Hi Dr K, I thought I should apologise for accosting you in Millbank while you were busy eating your phone. Anyway my username is the same as the name of the blog I was badgering you about if you get chance to have a look.



Keep up the good work!



PS The Book Of Eli looks rubbish. Now THAT'S insightful.

I'm an American viewer and my experience with it here is that it didn't make too much noise here when it came out, and since then it hasn't been mentioned much. From Hell was much more recognized than this. As for the film itself, I really enjoyed it. There were a few moments where it felt like several different types of film going on at the same time, but overall I thought it was an underseen masterpiece. Thank you for shedding light on this and many other gems on the blog.

It's a great film

I haven't seen Dead Presidents but I'm not sure how much value Kermode places on IMDb ratings, because it's a strangely low 6.5. I wonder if that's an accurate reflection of what audiences and critics thought of it.

Thank god someone remembers Dead Presidents. It is a great film and it sits in my collection in an ex-rental VHS version as that was the only copy i was able to purchase back when it was initially released. However i did feel that the trailer was a bit misleading and in some way teased us by showing that it would be an exciting heist thriller in the vein of Michael Mann's Heat. It turned out to be more of a Mean Streets-esque social drama instead.



I did however find The Book of Eli to be atrocious, so much so i walked out after an hour. Only the second time i have done so since becoming a critic.



Seeing we are on the subject of post-apocalypse and the lost and forgotten...how about the Iggy Pop starrer Atolladero? A futuristic, sci-fi spaghetti western complete with title song by said punk legend. The song alone makes it infinitely better than The Book of Eli, or Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome for that matter!

Dr. K, following on from psychfursfan83's comment, can you give us your opinion of the Mad Max films and your thoughts on a fourth instalment starring Tom Hardy? Received knowledge suggests the current trilogy follows the route of the Evil Dead or Spiderman films - i.e. One = good, Two = better, Three = total mess

I just finished watching Dead Presidents literally ten minutes ago. I loved it. Having grown up on films like Menance II Society, i found it to be a matured look at African-American life. For me it's definetly a stand out 90s film. In tone, it reminded me of There Will Be Blood, in the sense that the religion is there in There Will Be Blood, but it is never the focal point, the same goes for the discrimintation and racism within Dead Presidents, which they could have easily heavied up on, instead the Hughes Bros' focus on the lives of these characters. A great film i would reccomend for everyone.

I purchased Dead Presidents on import criterion laserdisc sight unseen at the time of its release, and I was hugely impressed with the Hughes brothers fluid camera work and use of music. I also agree with the good doctor that the ferocious Vietnam sequence is one of the best cinematic depictions of that war.

I forgot to mention this film also contains a cinematic rarity i.e a good performance from Chris Tucker.

The Hughes Brothers may be better filmmakers than Spike Lee but the problem is that their choices have let them down.



Spike Lee could be accused of being overrated but with films like Inside Man etc he remains someone who seeks out edgier material and retains his importance as a filmmaker.



The Hughes Brothers seem to be confused as to where they fit in terms of being filmmakers. The Wachowski Brothers have followed suit after landing in Palookaville after the failure of the Matrix sequels.



I guess unless you can develop a brand like our favourite Coen Brothers have, you may struggle as a duo of filmmakers.

When I left the flicks after seeing Book of Eli .. I thought ... that actually had quite a good idea behind it .... the use of religion as a tool for population control and power ... but also as a source of salvation ... a battle between good and evil ...



But for me , it had no suspense , no drama . As with alot of modern films "The Hero" is marked early and seems pretty well invincible to anything ... was this because he was being protected? Maybe , but it seemed quite flat and a movie kinda done by the numbers following. The dialogue was kinda non existant and all Denzel had to say was ... "Im going west" several times... pity to waste his talents ... but as usual ... Oldman makes a good nasty.

Went to see Book of Eli last weekend, enjoyed it, and, on Mark's previous recommendation bought Dead Presidents on DVD that same day (just £5 in a very well known music and DVD retailer). Extraordinary film - up there with Mean Streets and Boyz in the Hood. Yes, it is that good! Cheers Mark.

It's happening again, we have the previous week's homework marked before we get new stuff. I haven't seen Dead Presidents, nor will I until I get back my marks from last week's piece, but I liked From Hell enough so maybe I'll check it out.

I always thought Dead Presidents looked like an interesting film, so after you mentioned it the other day I tracked it down and gave it a look - how dull. It may be accurate and realistic but that's no substitute for interesting. The Vietnam bit felt 'been there, done that' to me, and though the characters were fine it didn't take much effort to guess what would happen to 'em as the whole thing lumbered along. Credit where it's due, however; the heist was really well done - if only the rest of this turgid brick was too.

Dead Presidents gets a "short wait" notice when I look it up on LoveFilm, so I'll have to see how I go with tracking it down.



On The Book of Eli, I actually found it to be better than The Road. I haven't read Cormac McCarthy's book, but the film fell into a pothole that frequently comes up whenever I see a post-apocalypse film- if the quality of life is that bad and humanity is that awful, what's so great about survival? Eli has a mission, but the man and boy just traverse horrifying scenes for the sake of staying alive.



Maybe I'm being fatalistic, but I found it was a film to be admired rather than enjoyed, and it isn't really memorable enough to warrant much attention, in my view. What the Hughes brothers have done is create a more enjoyable post-apocalypse film that doesn't pale in comparison to The Road, even if most will be talking about how great Viggo Mortensen was as the man. And he was great, but overall, Book of Eli was better for me. And I expected to hate it!



Sorry for the big rambling opinion-dump. :S

I loved Dead Presidents, I had it on VHS, but refused to buy it on DVD, because at the time, it was when the Buena Vista was releasing movies on flipper discs (not sure if it's on 2 sides now).



Another thing.



STOP GIVING US HOMEWORK WITHOUT MARKING OUR OLD HOMEWORK!

Agree 100% on this movie. I was actually surprised to find it a much more confident, stylish and realistic movie than I was expecting and that was partly due to the way it's currently marketed in the UK, with this DVD cover:

[Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]

Which gives off completely the wrong impression of the movie. I was also misled by you calling it a heist movie in the initial write up, because while the final third does focus on a brilliantly shot heist and its aftermath, the movie is much deeper than that, and there is much more to it in the superior first two acts.

It obviously owes a small debt to the likes of Taxi Driver and The Deer Hunter, but it's interesting for me as a small-time gamer to see the influence this film has had on video-games such as 'Grand Theft Auto 4' and i'm sure fans of the game may agree with that statement somewhat.

The war sequence was extraordinary but I think it's important not to underrate several sections including one of the best edited and most shocking dream sequences I have seen for a long time, and also the brilliant performances by Chris Tucker and Terrence Howard, two actors I normally find verging between awful or average. And not just in the dream sequence come to think of it, the editing is good all round, particularly the match cut to 'Nam. The film is also a good study of friendship and community and that takes up a large portion of the running time.

Overall, it blew me away. I used to pass the DVD in HMV all the time, and didn't think much of the Hughes Brothers, but I will be sure not to underrate them again.

Dear Mr Kermode,

I did happen to see "Dead Presidents" in the cinema in the midd 90s, courtesy of the original City Screen, a volunteer-run film group that operated out of a lecture theatre in York's Museum Gardens which exhibited some of the very best films of the decade alongside some amazing revival programmes: a very much missed venue and and set-up. The film itself was something of a disappointment to me, attempting to encompass the civil rights movement, Black Power politics and the strife of Vietnam,not to mention elements of a heist movie in one epic sweep.I can't fault the Hughes ambition, but I feel the film lacked truly gripping performances from its leading cast members - barring the always immaculate Keith David. I simply felt no empathy with any of the characters, leaving me completely unmoved by their descent into criminality even as the story practically begged the audience for sympathy. I felt the Vietman section was one of the weakest pieces; its central horrific image of the head-as-trophy dealt with in far more realistic fashion a film like "The Northwest Passage". I think that Isaac Hayes' awesome version of "Walk On By" was the most affecting thing about "Dead Presidents", and a recent second viewing of the film has done nothing to further endear the film to me. For me it remains a disfunctional curio of 90s cinema and nothing more.

Dear Mark



Can you say something about the remarkable Korean film "Treeless Mountain", if you've seen it?

It's a wonderful piece of work, reminiscent of "Tokyo Story". The camera work is a joy to behold, and the director gets remarkable performances from his 2 very young characters.



Thanks

David MacGowan

Kermode for Film '10 yes, but how about the BBC show some real balls and let him pick the film that comes on afterwards. Some of these little gems he's picking out for us would fit in fine midweek and late night – and let's face it, they surely wouldn't cost much for the Beeb to pick up.



Oh to be a scheduler...

Hi Dcotor



Saw Dead Presidents last night and I gotta say, I disagree with you, I don't know what you base on your judgement and it would be great to hear you justify your praise for the film. I for one thought it was a "good" film, watchable to the middle, but after that it looks like The hughes brothers had to compromise on the wishes of producers as so happens to young talent ( but not exclisivbely off course). So let's hear your justification.

Doctor,



I just watched Dead Presidents and enjoyed it overall. I thought the first two thirds were really good but something about the last third just didnt sell it for me. I was wanting something different as an ending after seeing what the Hughes brothers had promised me in the first two thirds.



I wasn't interested in seeing Book of Eli before checking Dead Presidents and I'm afraid this film hasn't changed me. I think the doctors comment about them, at one time, being the possible future of hollywood film is true but time and life has changed and I believe they have missed their opportunity to turn in work like that of Spike Lee. Sorry Hughes brothers, maybe if you had found the book sooner...

i have bought Possession after your persuasive (as i loved AntiChrist) and will watch it momentarily, looks like i have another one to add to my wishlist. You often post videos about DVD releases too, i think a recommendation would be the upcoming release of Street Trash fully uncut on region 2 DVD, one of the most delayed releases in DVD history surely!

I've just seen Dead Presidents and it was a terrific recommendation; a really great film with a horrific Vietnam depiction and an even more horrific post-traumatic experience nightmare.



I hope the good doctor keeps up these recommendations (homework, more like) because before his appraisal, I only knew Dead Presidents by it's misleading DVD cover. I also have Possession in my possession, but I'm saving that one for a rainy day (and how about that, it just starts to rain as I type this. I'm in for a glorious 2 hours).

slightly off-topic, but:



Mark, I look forward to the day when Mayo reviews your book on his podcast. Will he interview you?

Just ordered dead presidents for some strange reason the biggest dvd online seller is out of stock wonder who's to blame?.

Just ordered the film, which was a lot easier to track down than Possession. I'm looking forward to watching it based on your review but it's interesting that you compare the Hughes brothers to John Singleton because I loved Boyz n the Hood and was very disappointed to see the director making films like 2 Fast 2 Furious. While I haven't seen The Book of Eli, it looks like the Hughes brothers have gone in the same direction of big budget Hollywood action films rather than continuing with small, interesting and personal dramas. I feel this is a shame as Hollywood has plenty of directors who can do a decent action film (Martin Campbell, J.J. Abrams, Joss Whedon, and Michael Mann to name a few), I don't think we need anymore.

Menace II Society: A discouraging, but sincerly effective and straight-through lesson on social and moral downfalls of black kids growing up in America.



Dead Presidents: A promising, but sincerely ineffective and unbalanced lesson on social and moral downfalls of black kids growing up in America.



We know the lessons gained from "Menace II Society," since we see these kids as they grow, and how they turn down the wrong paths, and how the pay-off sticks with their choices - lack of choices - and the inevitable outcome of them.



But tell me, what lessons are gained from "Dead Presidents," since we see these kids as they grow, and how they turn down the wrong paths (the army?), and how the pay-off diverges from their choices - and lack of choices - and the preventable outcome of them?



"Menace II Society" documented an inevitable situation, and how terrifying that inevitability is for many black families in America's ghettos, where they can only watch as their children are taken by a culture of violence and crime. That film really meant something.



"Dead Presidents" has a similar cause-and-effect attitude to its characters, but they seem more conscious of societies ills (the army?). That's why the last scene seems out of place. It fails to elaborate on its potential, and offers no discernable insight or accurate conclusion regarding each characters' learning curve. Instead of seeming tragic, it just seemed silly. The film is anything but a heist movie. Or at least it should have been. That film really meant nothing.

Veering slightly off topic here, From Hell being 'controversial' I don't think has so much to do with it being comic book territory, more to do with it just being a very bad film. Apart from the formulaic plot (it has all the cop movie clichés including the 'hand over your gun and your badge! You're off the case!' scene), the identity of the killer is startlingly obvious through the poor deployment of sound (or possibly casting as it's a person with a very recognizable voice). This is all, however, made a great deal worse by the fact that the book (which bears almost no resemblance to the film whatsoever) is an incredibly strange, interesting and original work.

Having just come back from a screening of The Book of Eli and seeing your love for Dead Presidents I am now having a small Hughes Brothers retrospective.



I actually quite liked The Book of Eli, yes it's not their strongest film but when Dead Presidents came out I still thought menace 2 society was a better film.



I shall sit down and watch all five of their films and see if my mind can be changed all these years later.

Hi Mark and fellow Karmodies, I watched Dead Presidents and was very impressed with the movie and as I grew up in the 80's I dont know how that one slipped by me. I just podcasted the Precious review you did on Friday 22 Jan and watched the movie, Lee the Director said have a good laugh but all I did was cry. I was sad film and it makes me look at people in a different way now, I just wanted to hug her and be there for her. Please keep up the good work Mark.



Christy

As an avid follower Dr K I have finally joined your blog ,, and am interested in your views on the first "all digital sound motion picture." Final Approach !!!



Intacto

Good call on the hughes brothers man

I love dead presidents and I totally agree that it was one of the best films of the 90s

Looking forward to this one

Also thought it hilarious when you asked the director of precious what film he loved but no one else did at that exact moment I thought of hudson hawk only to find out mins later that exorcist boy also loved it

Man I saw that film three times when it came out it was hilarious

Love the podcasts and hello to mark and simon

watched it first on dvd(2001 flipper discs)and did'nt think much of it-just re-watched it and found it to be a very average film



it does have a top soundtrack mind



i like this film club thing you've got going on, keep it up

Dear Mark,



I watched Dead Presidents last night and I share your disbelief about how they haven't become a major force in hollywood. The Vietnam sequence you mention is probably one of the most twisted and horrifying sequences I have seen, watching the group of men suffer through trauma and desperation just to get out alive, rather than win the war. The performances were splendid and particularly to Chris Tucker, I never knew he was capable of such a convincing performance as skip who is struggling to kick a drug addiction. It is probably one of the smartest films around and I can't believe I've gone through my 17 year old life without stumbling across The Hughes Brothers. My first experience of their work was just last week laughing out loud at the violence and frances de la tour prepared to kick ass with a sub machine gun in book of of eli. I really do hope this duo make more films and judging by the success of The Book Of Eli, maybe that will happen.



Julian Morton.

I saw the book of eli last night and thought it was absolutely terrible. Firstly I love a good apocalypse and I'll watch all sorts of apocalyptic trash. Still this really stank. The plot was weak. I found the main character Eli unlikeable and self righteous. I had no interest in how any character fared. Eli's "heroic finale" with Oldman was a poor man's gladiator. I found the religious context and analogy annoying and I would imagine it would be offensive to many.

Rubbish!!

Give me The Road any day, or even better The Omega Man.

Should come with a byline "warning contains gratuitous scenes of Denzil spouting the bible in an annoyingly - "I'm better than everyone else" manner.



Any suggestions of better apocalyptic movies?

I would also like to tell Mark Kermode to watch Family Guy and then re-watch the book of eli and he'll find Mila Kunis's performance hilarious like I did, she may look hotter than meg griffin, but she still sounds like her and every line she delivered I would mutter to myself "Shut up, Meg!"

@Anton-Gorodetsky



Yes there is, quite a few in fact...



Atolladero: Iggy Pop, i'll say no more.



Cyborg: Made by Cannon Films, directed by Albert Pyun, starring Jean Claude Van Damme...that really should say it all but I include it here because it is more enjoyable than The Book of Eli and worth a watch for the opening line..."When it seemed like things couldn't get any worse, we got The Plague!". A pretty terrible but oddly enjoyable B movie.



Escape From New York: Not John Carpenter's best film (see Prince of Darkness, They Live, Halloween, Assault on Precinct 13, The Thing) but this has Kurt Russell in moody, taciturn Apocalyptic Hero mode and has that great Carpenter synthesiser score. And it was shot in my favourite city, St. Louis!



Delicatessen: Jean Pierre Jeunet's hilarious post-apocalyptic black comedy and best film. How he ended up directing Alien Ressurection i do not know.



I don't know if Dr K would agree with those but i thought i would throw down a couple of recommendations for "Apocalyptic" films which i enjoy a lot more than The Book of Eli.







.

Mark, could find out why the lost masterpiece Seconds by John Frankenheimer isn't available in the UK? I very luckily have one of the extremely rare region 1s and Seconds seems to have got an X in 1966 by the BBFC and hasn't been heard from since and I think it's one of the alltime great films.



https://www.bbfc.co.uk/website/Classified.nsf/0/B17D9E22063F627E802566C80043F18B?OpenDocument

Thanks for pushing this film here. I'm sure many of your readers had never even heard of it. I agree with psychfursfan83 that it was (at least in America) promoted in a misleading way so that I had no idea it was more a Mean Streets type thing and so I put off watching it for quite a long while after it came out.



My problem with the Hughes Brothers is quite similar to the problem I have with the Coen Brothers, they just seem to be sort of lumpy and inconsistent with their choices of stories so that I can't really say I am a big Hughes Brothers fan. That said, I will give The Book of Eli a chance based on your endorsement -- though with a fair amount of skepticism after your endorsement of Avatar and the shocking revelation that you liked Paul Haggis's film Crash. (Yes, I am one of those people that believes that liking Crash is a seriously punishable offense)

The Book of Eli. hmm. I kind of guessed the premise from the trailers but when I saw it I was actually struck by it's subtlety. I believe it is a lot deeper than it appears and should not be compared to the "apocolyptic hack 'em ups". That's like comparing Alien to Avatar because they're both 'space movies'.

First of, Im a white male and I've always had somewhat of an hard time enjoying blacksplotation films and movies like "Blood in, Blood out", "Boys in the hood" and I didnt really like American Gangster either. I did however like Carlitos Way so there's hope for me and for these kinds of movies.



After seeing Doctor K's post and urging us to see Dead Presidents I did so and that movie to me resides in the same genre as the titles I mentioned above (and I didnt like most of them). This one however I liked very much. Good acting but most of all I think that everything I saw fellt truly real, how people behaved, the settings and I guess the typecasting and for once it wasnt just a bunch of gangster wanna-be's and tough guys, this time I could understand why they did the things they did and that is to me is a top-notch movie.