Will Tunisia's new government ensure stability?

At LAST!!

A thread on an important subject!! Well done!

Answer - difficult to say. I always thought Tunisia was ok compared to the rest of the Maghreb. Not Europe, obviously, but not bad.

People tended to know that saying the wrong thing about Monsieur le Président could have serious health implications, but it wasn't like Iraq or Saudi Arabia.

But things do seem to have changed for the worse.


Strikes me, Tunisia is a classic case of what goes wrong when the political élite is out of touch and out of step with the population. There's a lesson for the UK there.

But for the Yank Bashers out there - any time you criticise the US, just look at Tunisia. A relatively 'benign' developing, muslim country - but you find plenty of arabs seeking asylum or a better life in the US and Europe, not many from the west seeking asylum in arab countries. And even in a 'benign' arab country, look what happens when people step out of line.....can we expect a Michael More documentary? I doubt it.

ALLMOST ALL SO CALLED LEADERS ARE ONLY PUPPETS(PR REPRESENTATIVES) WHOSE STRINGS ARE PULLED BY THE UNSEEN POWERS (INTERNATIONAL BANKERS AND NWO). if the president becomes a burden and cuts into the tourist trade profits, he will be replaced.

If the Tunisia leadership is anything like that of the UK then the recent "unrest" won't have any impact whatsoever.

Dear Masons Arms
At last! Someone who actually deals with the question objectively & sensibly without immediately slagging off the USA, UK, Israel, Islam, Labour, Conservatives & the bloke on the grassy knoll. Thanks mate.

4 comments in two and a half hours - wow this one has really stoked the flames of debate!

After 23 years of corruption under his rule, the Tunisians have had enough Of Ben Ali. His offer to quit the office of the president in 2014 is just a bandage to stop the bleeding on the streets, and, honestly, a ruse to cling on to power. The anti-regime boiling in Tunisia is close to reaching the level of the anti-Shah turmoil in Iran before the 1979 Revolution.

But the question any person with even the minimum moral and ethical disposition should ask is this: "Where is the U.S. and the European outrage for
the slaughter and bone breaking of Tunisian protesters by the police of a pro-Western despotic regime?" If the Tunisian protests were taking place in Syria,
the U.S. and its European partners would have been blasting the Syrian [anti-Western] regime as "murderous, despotic," and they would have called an urgent meeting of the U.N. Security Council to condemn it! But Tunisia's despot Ben Ali is their clown, and he knows that he can bloody any opponent with impunity.

It is obvious that the West worries that if they help the Tunisians to oust Ben Ali, it may have a domino effect which may embolden other Arabs under the pro-Western despotic regimes to do the same, and rise to overthrow their autocrats. And this is the epitome of hypocrisy! We are still fighting the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan under the pretext to give the Iraqis and the Afghans democracy. How about giving democracy to those Arab who are trampled by despots who have only one qualification: "They are our puppets!"

During the Cold War years, the Western propaganda was chugging daily with radio programs to the communist audiences in Eastern Europe this motto: "Give me liberty, or give me death!" Now the Tunisians cry for "liberty," but they are given "death" by Ben Ali. And the West just looks the other way! Shame on us - and our democratic tinted hypocrisy! Nikos Retsos

For any president to stay in power more than 20 years is a joke beyond description and for his wife and her Trabelsi dynasty to be at the helm of power and in charge of the fundamental business deals in the country is a travesti of justice. I suggest for readers to read wikileaks documents as posted in the Guardian Newspaper to know how Tunisia is being run and corrupt to the bone.
If it was hapenning in Iran, Sarkozy would have been calling for the Democratic and human right of these people but not for those Tunisians fighting a corrupt regime.
The president's Ben Ali actions are too little and too late and it is time for him to do the decent thing and to go to France where he will be protected by Sarkozy his biggest fan and for the sake of Tunisia and its future I hope he does so.
However I doubt this because those who can put pressure on him in the International from france to UK to Germany and others are quiet about these flagrant human rights abuses.
The hypocrisy of the European community especially the French Government is beyond description. They have one attitude towards the president of Cote d'ivoire and another attitude towards the presidnet of Tunisia with blood stain of more than 50 innocent Tunisian citizens on his hands.
Shameful on the French and the European community for their compelete silence on what is hapenning in Tunisia with more than 50 ordinary citizens butchered by Ben Ali's tools of agression.
It seems that countries like France and their allies they rather prefer a corrupt Arab regime than a regime based on true democratic values whether it be Islamic or Secular as is the case in Turkey.
Ben Ali is a puppet in the hands of France and can easily blackmail him and to remind him about the Hague if he does not comply to its orders and strategic interests in the region.
However citizens in North Africa from Morroco to Algeria to Tunisia to Egypt will always remember the stance taken by so called Human Right protectors Countries (what a joke) from France to Germany to others and will feel more confident to rely on themselves and no one else. Thanks to the internet, truth will be unmasked via Youtube, social networks and Wikileaks and people's power will overthrow these parasytes in the third world and developping countries :)

I hope so, but just like all those in power anywhere, including the UK, they ignore the people's discontent if they think they can get away with it, then the discontent irrupts and they start wishing they had given it more attention, unless they have the option of suppressing it with their military.

5. At 5:06pm on 14 Jan 2011, pzero wrote:
4 comments in two and a half hours - wow this one has really stoked the flames of debate!
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Sadly true.

However, if the topic heading had been "Tunisian unrest causes holiday chaos for British at Monastir airport", or "bars shut at Hammamet hotels" then the boards would probably have been swamped with enraged Anglo-Saxons.

Oh yeah and try booking a holiday with Thomas Cook to Tunisia and you get the message

"Sorry, rooms at the accommodation you have selected have now sold out."

A world class travel agent and that's the best you can do to inform people your website can't book you this holiday!

Well done people of Tunisia... I hope this will be the start to all Arab people for their Freedom. The Arab Rulers have to be ashamed from themselves for letting their people live in such circumstances of poverty and bad healh and education. They all should step down starting with Munarak to the Abdillas of Jordan and Saudi Arabia plus many more of them. Arabs are very good people and they deserve a much better rulers....

Whatever the many reasons for the riots and protests in Tunisia certainly they have produced some useful results-- as I am pretty fed up with what our Governemnt is doing to us , maybe it is time we tried a bit of protesting here.

Here soon, Rich, watch your back, People that have nothing to loose,.................. Have nothing to loose. You can't kill them, although they make take your life even for bread, put them in prison if you care and feed them and their families, you can't kill them, so is it going to be wealth sharing, or>>>>>>>>>>>>>(X)

I can't say. If the Tusnians do overthrow their government, will they change their social contract? That is to say, will the change their political philosophy and form of government? As an American, I hope they stick with Democracy, but anything that will let the Tusnians live together as a people is fine by me. Lets just hope, IF there even is any change, that as few people as possible will get hurt in the process from here on out.

At 5:06pm on 14 Jan 2011, pzero wrote:

4 comments in two and a half hours - wow this one has really stoked the flames of debate!
...................................................
Yer well what do you expect this aint the 60's or 70's X factor Beckhams, Jordan etc, rule now, Give most of them the Cr@@p a mortgage, and a 4 year old BMW or Audi and souls sold my friend.

Will unrest lead to change in Tunisian government?
Well the president has already done a bunk! The country is on lock down, a state of emergency has been called with curfews and the banning of three or more people meeting together so I'd guess yes, I think there may well be change in government. The people are mainly demonstrating against corruption in government and unemployment.

Just seen the news and they've forced Ben Ali to dissolve his government and hold an immediate election. Excellent, proof that rebellions are effective.

Tunisian democracy has been suspect for years, with Ben Ali imprisoning his oppenents on dodgy charges. One of their main opponents are the outlawed Islamic Nahda party.

I just hope they take this chance to create a fair society and not simply replace one corrupt regime with another.

What happens in Tunisia is unlikely to have much effect on the rest of the world. Tunisians will sort out their own future, and it's best that other countries keep quiet and resist the temptation to get involved.

6. At 5:12pm on 14 Jan 2011, Nikos_Retsos
Good post, it's true if this was kicking off in Iran you would have Hilary Clinton jumping at the opportunity to rachet up sanctions egged on by the oil and military industries. Good to see people power in action though, maybe we could all learn something from it.

The unrest in Tunisia is about corruption and food shortages. The same thing happened recently in a number of countries, but there was a media blackout to stop it being transmitted to other countries suffering from similar problems. Problems with harvests across the world are likely to make the situation worse.

In the UK, inflation is on the way and household costs are rising. Fuel prices have increased and food prices have been steadily rising. High taxation ensure mimimum disposal income and the same thing that is happening in Tunisia could also happen here.

Certainly, the protest in Algerial will bring great changes not just in Algeria alone but in Africa as a whole.
The governments in the region are increasingly becoming aware that the day they held sway the tools of governance 're fast fading and that more and more people are realising the need to exercise their rights.
The days of ignorance are rapidly vanishing thanks to the global arena called "the Internet". With this marvelous tool, people find it very, very easy to organise themselves, as such, power is returning to the people (for power belongs to the people in democratic settings) and the governments are not oblivious of this fact.
There will be a change in the way governments are being run in the wake of the wholesome protest in Algeria.
The danger of it all is that other people beyond Algeria are watching and learning and the governments savvy this fact very much here in Africa.
Backlash? domino effect? education? contamination? It can be any or some or all of these, who knows!

Mason Arms: "But for the Yank Bashers out there - any time you criticise the US, just look at Tunisia."

Sorry, but Tunisia has been an absolute dictatorship for decades supported by the West and, like Egypt, Morocco, Jordan, Saudi, UAE, Bahrain, Qatar, Uzbekistan, Krgystan, the other local stans, Azerbaijan etc, this has been in spite of grotesque human rights abuses and a level of corruption that would make a mafiosi blush. Many of those countries have been funded and armed by America. Hypocrites in the Western media (BBC included) also ignore these abuses in muslim dictatorships. America and the EU have always preferred pro-western dictatorship to democracy for reasons of stability and hegemony - and if the locals suffer then to hell with them.

Best of luck to Tunisians for getting rid of a corrupt, incompetent, self-serving government - I so wish we had done the same with the last government, and if so, we wouldnt be in the very worst of messes we are in today.

Also, perhaps if the people of the UK stood up againt this current govenrment and DEMANDED we get out of the EU, then perhaps we can also have a bright future instead of a future of federal taxation, subjugation and opression.

Perhaps Mr. Ben Ali should at least be given some credit for deciding to leave, rather than bloodily crushing his people, as the tyrants did in Iran.

Any chance that Barrack Husain Osama sorry I mean Obama, might step down in the US as the puppet he obviously is of the Fed. And perhaps other politicians nearer home should follow the exemplary example set by the President of Tunisia.

Maybe tis country that exports excellent dates and figs, I always buy Tunisian at Christmas, has exported the idea of a leader who is subservient to the will of the people. David Cameron take heed.

To #6
Apparently you haven't heard about Secretary of State Clinton's strongly-worded warning to the Arab leaders yesterday in Qatar. She told them to their faces that they faced unrest and extremism unless they liberalized their political systems and cleaned up their economies. She didn't pull any punches. Her words seem prescient now.

America seems all over the map on Wikileaks. I'm sure, under the guise of patriotism and Democracy, they'll support this. Only to complain about it when it stops being simple.

https://hunchar.blogspot.com/2011/01/was-wikileaks-catalyst-for-tunisian.html

This is a lesson to be learned both for western governments and eastern ones....In the two speed economies of globalized wealth..unless governments act to redistribute that wealth to the poorest radical political readjustment will happen..we can look at Greece,Thailand,Poland,Sudan,and now Tunisia.

This is a warning to the Cameron's government not to beat up the disabled unemployed and elderly.This is a very real possibility in the UK as the student riots demonstrated.Clearly like Tunisia a whole new structuring of government,its corruption,lack of legal representation and the lack of distribution of global wealth directly to the poor.The government bureaucracy preventing the money getting to the poor is the same in Tunisia as it is in London.

With court cases been taken to the court of human rights for beating up benefits claimants..Tunisia could be here in London this year!!! Scarey but true.

It all boils down to one thing..radical readjustment of the political process in Tunisia will happen here unless we have further radical reform in the civil service,constitutional reform,and more voting reform asap.

Take note labour you are blamed for holding up this vital reform.All over the world this is necessary in the light of global recession,all over the world the politicians and civil servants will resist letting grip of power which is not theirs to keep!!

slightly impact on neighboring countries.

well organized protest would be the solution

Yet another HYS about something that will make no difference, in a country that doesn't matter.

Why are the BBC ignoring the massive backlash against the Canadian Broadcasting Corp decision to ban Dire Straights from the airwaves?
Its a HUGE story.

I wish to congratulate the people of Tunisia, i hope this leads to genuine democracy and i hope and pray all Arab puppets leaders turn will come very soon.

There will be a lot more of these problems around the world as inflation starts to bite and commodity prices rise. The world seems to have forgotton what inflation looks like. Real interest rates are still negative in most parts of the world, which is absurd. A tough decade ahead.

Steven Quas Collins

So the President has left the country. No doubt with a suitcase full of money to put in a Swiss bank!

It is reassuring to see for once that a country that wasn't a former British colony is having problems. Problem countries are usually all our former colonies, and we are usually blamed and expected to let them all come and live here and give them council houses in reparations.

But it's not all our fault after all !

24. At 6:47pm on 14 Jan 2011, MilwaukeeRay wrote:

Perhaps Mr. Ben Ali should at least be given some credit for deciding to leave, rather than bloodily crushing his people, as the tyrants did in Iran.
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How does it feel MilwaukeeRay, to see an American supported corrupt dictator being forced from power by the people? I thought you would be applauding the brave demonstrators rather than commending Ben Ali for not killing more of them.

31. At 7:23pm on 14 Jan 2011, The Rockabilly Red wrote:

Yet another HYS about something that will make no difference, in a country that doesn't matter.
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But it does matter, maybe we are seeing the first social media enabled revolution unfolding before our eyes.

Oh dear.....lotsa people are quite cross aren't they.

Well, Tunisia is a beautiful country, it may benefit from change, and we pray the change is not marred with bloodshed and chaos.

Watch this space as Arab extremists will gain the higher ground and another North african country will be torn apart with misery ,Tourism will dissapear and a new brand of Islam will prevail of hatred , rascism , civil unrest and one more country which will be an enemy of the Christian world , obviously the Americans have been meddling again

Well done the Tunisian people but will they accept this? The current Prime Minister is the new face of the old school.

I wonder if our government can learn a lesson from Tunisia and I wonder if the UK public will take heed too. People have power, governments can fold, changes can be made, yes it is painful and full of uncertainties but the birth of change is just that just as human birth is and we must care for the way we look forward to the future.

On HYS so much rhetoric but is there going to be any action. The local elections in the UK did not change anything as people chose the same old thing again and again.

Tunisians well done now make sure the next government does make changes and are not puppets of the elite.

I may sound communist but change is needed in the UK as well.

This man and his family have been responsible for total control over, and severe censorship of, internet access in Tunisia. His "ousting" is definitely a good thing for the country.

Sadly he seems to have chosen Malta (my current home) as a refuge.

I hope this is the beginning of genuine political reform within Tunisia. Good luck to those brave enough to stand against blatant corruption and oppression.

Unfortunate metaphor, "President steps down.." Isn't it more accurate to write, "President flown out.."?

37. At 7:46pm on 14 Jan 2011, moreram wrote:
24. At 6:47pm on 14 Jan 2011, MilwaukeeRay wrote:

Perhaps Mr. Ben Ali should at least be given some credit for deciding to leave, rather than bloodily crushing his people, as the tyrants did in Iran.
___________________________________________________
How does it feel MilwaukeeRay, to see an American supported corrupt dictator being forced from power by the people? I thought you would be applauding the brave demonstrators rather than commending Ben Ali for not killing more of them.

It didn't occur to me that anybody would take me literally. I was trying to be tongue-in-cheek and ironic, but apparently I have no gift for it. I shall refrain from such attempts in future.

20. At 6:32pm on 14 Jan 2011, Dave wrote:

In the UK, inflation is on the way and household costs are rising. Fuel prices have increased and food prices have been steadily rising. High taxation ensure mimimum disposal income and the same thing that is happening in Tunisia could also happen here.

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Why do people keep saying this? As if it's in any way comparable, cuts compared to dissidents disappearing. And yet you think they will have the same end result. Simply, they won't.

Ben Ali for the people of kasserine is done, he is over. He " ben ali or whatever his name is" wishes now to come back after the situation turns to order,but no way .Pople of kasserine and all of the people the other Tunisian cities to whom liberty is held dearest will fight and will bring about his downfall. Watch out People of kasserine does not entertain the proposition that Laila Trabalsiya and the mob of thieves (in her service) may stay in power. Only the parliament has the right to govern.

Getting rid of a bad leader doesn't always make a country better. Can they actually find a better replacement? Lots of cases of failure to do so.

We need the BBC to know that there is a play on words .the president fled the country and did
NOT resign .He is hoping to keep his scope goat Mr Gannouch takes power while he is being sheltered by France. The Tunisian constitution is manipulated so that Ben Ali can come back to power and resume his functions. Ben Ali has to resign .Besides,the parliament should take power until a new election is held. Ben Ali is in demanded for a public trial in kasserine to face the charges of annihilating the people of that region of Tunisia ( kasserine). Ben ali you are done you and Laila

Tunisia under Ben Ali was virtually a police state. There is total corruption in all state offices & the country was run on backhanders (so to speak). However the Tunisians themselves are a friendly people & this uprising will do untold harm to the country if the holiday business is affected. The recent rise in the industry as contributed markedly to the investment in the country with the building of many excellent hotels & a new airport. This has brought much needed employment to the country & I sincerely hope that they can quickly overcome this unwanted setback.

Congratulations TUNISIA !

Your history will be re-written by you !

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

As a Brit currently in Libya, my perspective on this is optimism since I stand to receive cheaper food. For a more detailed perspective, read my blog at https://wispajones.blogspot.com/

Why on earth when there is trouble in another part of the world does the British media go on about tourists all of the time - bearing in mind that many countries have significant ex-pat communities, it seems ludicrous to keep talking about the tourists.

Long live Tunisia. Brave Tunisians, make sure this is not just a change of faces. Switching masks is the oldest trick in the book of tyranny. You are where more populous Islamic nations like Pakistan, Iran, Turkey and Indonesia were 50 or 60 years ago.

Only Turkey and Iran are masters of their destiny. The other two are like a bull in a bull fight, keep goring the cloth. Know your enemy.

All this user's posts have been removed.Why?

How will his departure affect Tunisia? Considering the current situation and what's going on, I'm certain his departure will have no effect as he was forced out by his people.
Are you in Tunisia? No.
What are views on Mr Ben Ali's actions? There will be some supporters form his tribe, family and the majority who are not supporting him, hence he had to flee his Country for his own safety. Thank God, President Sarkozy and France have decided not to grant him exile. How I wish all European countries will refuse any of the rogue leaders exile. They should be accountable to their people. 23yrs in power is ample time to do a lot for a Country.
What impact will this have on other countries in the region? Significant and major impact. There is a quiet revolution going on everywhere in the world by the people holding their govts to account. It’s a new era and well done to all Tunisians who believe they can make a difference. May God be with them and bless them and those who have died for freedom and justice.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

Ben Ali dissolved the government/Dismissed it.Now, he is delegating his prerogatives to his prime minister?? what is this paradox?? The Prime minister is Ben Ali's prime minister not OURS ( TUNISIANS) Mr Gannouchi now has not legitimate power.The parliament must resume the presidential functions and responsibilities and act collectively on behalf of the people consent(who brought its members to power)

Tunisia today-UK tomorrow? Good on the Tunisians,people with courage to stand up to political corruption and incompetence.At least these people can say we have had enough.In this country we "presume" we are being told the truth but as we have found out our government are also liars-what do we do?NOWT!.Lets hope Tunisia at least gets what it wants because until the UK wakes up to the lies it has been told by all politicians then we are here to be trodden on whilst the Condems and their banker friends ride roughshod over the British people

Ali Haider Kasmi wrote: Long live Tunisia. Brave Tunisians, make sure this is not just a change of faces. Switching masks is the oldest trick in the book of tyranny. You are where more populous Islamic nations like Pakistan, Iran, Turkey and Indonesia were 50 or 60 years ago.

Only Turkey and Iran are masters of their destiny. The other two are like a bull in a bull fight, keep goring the cloth. Know your enemy.

Great example Iran, a hideous theocracy where the president fiddles the election to keep himself in power, harasses innocent minorities and preaches hatred against all and sundry, threatening the infidels of the West and Israel with a 'real holocaust'.
The rising food prices in Tunisia have fuelled existing unrest. This is going to happen more and more as populations increase and food becomes increasingly more scarce. The world population has increased by 3 million this year in just 14 days. In 1960 the Club of Rome's 'Limits to Growth' showed that world population growth was unsustainable and would cause catastrophic ecological and economic breakdown in the 21st Century. Instead of gripping this we continue to pour aid into countries which make no effort to control their population growth. Worse still their excess population goes elsewhere and takes their bad habits with them. We supposedly have a Green MP in Britain but there isn't a word about the threat of increasing populations in her manifesto. In fact she supports immigration into one of the most overpopulated coutries in the world. The concept of having a strategy for sustainable population both in the UK and elsewhere has been burnt on the bonfire of political correctness.

Bet he didn;t forget to take a pile of money with him.

Maybe we could all stop backing or dismissing foreign leaders?? Nothing to do with us, let them wreak their own country if they wish, not our choice to 'advise' what leader should be elected.

Stevegrant wrote: Tunisia today-UK tomorrow? Good on the Tunisians,people with courage to stand up to political corruption and incompetence.At least these people can say we have had enough.In this country we "presume" we are being told the truth but as we have found out our government are also liars-what do we do?NOWT!.Lets hope Tunisia at least gets what it wants because until the UK wakes up to the lies it has been told by all politicians then we are here to be trodden on whilst the Condems and their banker friends ride roughshod over the British people

The people are rioting about rises in food prices, they haven't done anything about political corruption for 20 years. Food prices reflect what is going on in the world with increasing populations and populous countries like China and India having a much bigger effect in international markets.
You attack the Condems because you presumably don't like the truth which is that you can't go on borrowing £1 in every £4 you spend indefinitely. If anyone are liars it is those on the left who claim you can. Whether we like it or not we are at the mercy of international bankers because we have so much debt. Some of that was caused by the bankers themselves, an irony but not something we can do anything about. At least Cameron and Clegg are telling the truth about the precarious situation we are in. Clegg has had to abandon cherished policies because he understands the situation when most of his so called supporters choose to put their heads in the sand and pretend we aren't in deep trouble. He has more courage than all of them put together.

Who will take in El Presidente? If he harbours any thoughts of settling in the UK, not that he can claim any links, then the Government should issue a swift 'no thank you'. The country is bursting at the seams with all sorts of undesirables, we don't want another one!

I think wikileaks openeds the eyes of Tunisian people..Bravo Assange...

What's happening in Tunisia is not surprising, it could happen in any Arab country - why? because the young have little work & the leaders are corrupt.
It's strange how many muslims would like to wipe out the only country that actually creates jobs, Israel - even though they actually occupy 1% of the middle east.
Perhaps Arabs could learn a thing or two from the Israelis - which in turn could turn the tide of immigration & conflict.

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Lets hope that the next dictator manages to do more for the very poor, it seems that this is a very unhappy state.

Tunisia must accept 21st century science and technology. Modern society lacks organization and effectiveness. American economic woes are due to an elderly population opposed to advanced electronic sophistication. They prefer their arcane memories of the 1930s great depression and the second world war.

Ben Ali has fled but leaves his prime minister in charge. Is this leaving him the option of a comeback? Is he planning to govern from afar? I think this story has a long way to run yet and the people still have a massive task to realise their goals. I pray that the loss of life will be minimal.

I have been all over Tunisia and it is a wonderful country. The people are very gracious and beautiful. Ben Ali did wonders for his country, it is a pity the press does not concentrate on what he has done for Tunisia. These riots have been instigated by muslim radicals, wait and see, burkhas will be worn by their beautiful women by the end of the year. So sad.

While driving past the International court in the Hague today I came across a small but visually police protected protest. Women, children and men of good breeding formed an orderly chant against Ben Ali's discredited regime in Tunisia, the former home of Hannibal Barca, the great protester against Roman mis-rule. Strange description I know. But it not usual that highly educated and well heeled members of society take to the streets to voice protest at political wrong doings, from time to time.


If this event is significant it is because good people are ready to protect citizen interest around the World. Governments are rightly coming under more democratic scrutiny. Their time on this Earth as the instrument of unbridled Capitalist adventurers is slowly being exposed. If Tunisia can win and with a low causality of patriotism, then strong democracies with their experience of community resistance can shed the scourge of financial vampirism sweeping Europe and the Western system.

Hannibal Baca was a military insurgent of immense importance. Today’s Tunisia at the Hague international court showed clearly, people, and the WHO matters, can out match, out flank and outlive the mis-rulers.

www.martinnangle.blogspot.com

Sounds like a revolution. I hope the people of Tunisia are able to shape their country for the better from it.

• 67. At 10:32pm on 14 Jan 2011, DPStL wrote:
What's happening in Tunisia is not surprising, it could happen in any Arab country - why? because the young have little work & the leaders are corrupt.
It's strange how many muslims would like to wipe out the only country that actually creates jobs, Israel - even though they actually occupy 1% of the middle east.
Perhaps Arabs could learn a thing or two from the Israelis - which in turn could turn the tide of immigration & conflict.
==========================

Very ill informed!
1. I suspect Tunisia would be doing quite well if it had been receiving $7bn p/a from the USA for the past 62 years. (That’s about $10k for each man woman and child) like Israel has!
2. With Israel’s track record of war crimes and disregard for International law, who wants to learn anything from them?
3. Which other Country has as many UN resolutions against it as Israel? See numerous independent sources on the internet.
Forget it. Despite Tunisian sovereignty being violated by Israel when Mossad tried to assinate Yassa Arafat while he stayed there, Tunisia has kept its nose out of Israel’s business.
It is a poor country with few resources, although there is industry there, as I used to work for a French Company that manufactures parts for Airbus just outside Tunis.
The poverty and the way of Government here are nothing to do with the fact this is a Muslim Country. Much of Africa is the same! If anyone made a sweeping comment based upon someone’s Jewish ness, that would be anti-Semitic or racist, so what is your reason for the comment?
Comment on a topic you understand! This is a serious topic!

"64. At 10:19pm on 14 Jan 2011, Rattler wrote:
The people are rioting about rises in food prices, they haven't done anything about political corruption for 20 years. Food prices reflect what is going on in the world with increasing populations and populous countries like China and India having a much bigger effect in international markets.
You attack the Condems because you presumably don't like the truth which is that you can't go on borrowing £1 in every £4 you spend indefinitely. If anyone are liars it is those on the left who claim you can. Whether we like it or not we are at the mercy of international bankers because we have so much debt. Some of that was caused by the bankers themselves, an irony but not something we can do anything about. At least Cameron and Clegg are telling the truth about the precarious situation we are in. Clegg has had to abandon cherished policies because he understands the situation when most of his so called supporters choose to put their heads in the sand and pretend we aren't in deep trouble. He has more courage than all of them put together."

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The people of Tunisia may well be rioting over food prices. But who do you think are the ones responsible for the food prices being allowed to reach such heights? Wouldn't be the politically corrupt now would it?

As for your comments on the current UK government. Pfft.

Clegg may well have abandoned some of the Lib Dem promises, but that's no different to if he were in power himself. I note he (and other politicians) haven't abandoned the perks they get, or the salaries which are 3 times the national wage.

And yet they still claim we are all in this together. Can you not see the discrepancy with your view and what is the actual truth - that we the average people are meant to pay for the likes of Cameron whilst he is in office, but be reduced in wealth ourselves, while the likes of Cameron and co. only get richer.

Seems a bit like Animal Farm to me - some are more in this together than others, much like some pigs are more equal than others.

And if the likes of Philip Green and co. were forced to pay their taxes the deficit we have could be narrowed quite a bit without hitting the rest of us so hard.

I say good on the Tunisians for doing what they have done and I agree with others here calling for similar action in this country.

Wake up sheeple.

All should be assessed with care before stating.
Everything is not all white or black, neither good nor evil.

The truth should be behind a curtain.
The democracy in Tunisia could be hit down then replaced by Islamic power.
The raise of people is a fact but they might be pushed by hidden hands or organization.

Let's remember Iran in the early 80s, democracy has been abolished and religious power took place ever since.

This could be the case with Tunisia today.

This shows the evil of british psychiatry and psychiatric nurses.The unethical practice of torture ignored and call it a joke ,shows the arrogance of a "huntley" kind of guy.Unable to have sadistic fun with a prisoner you harass a ordenary person.Doctors sent jews and the disabled to death camps.Scientologists are right,the british psychiatry are involved in unethica; mental torture and prescribe anti psychotic drugs to punish.They do this in tunisa and doctors in the old soviet states drugged people up on command of the state.
I can`t trust doctors or psychiatrists.Sack them all.This country stinks/

We are in Monastir, on our yacht in the marina. it's 1:17 and we're hearing gun shots ringing out across the town. A building is on fire in the marina complex. We've been told that we're quite safe here and that the place is guarded but there doesn't seem to be much of a police or army presence.

We preparing to leave should the need arise. Last night a number of shops were damaged in the town and a supermarket was looted and burned. We heard that more was planned for tonight. The curfew is obviously not being adhered to here.

Jckm2010

good riddance

So here is yet another African politician who thought he could go on forever ruling his country. When will they ever learn? Here was the true dictator on the same level as Amin, Mugabe, Mobutu and Al Bashir, ruling their countries as if it were their own private properties. Ruling over people who are inprisoned if they raise the slightest criticism of their repective 'beloved' president's. More will surely topple over the next few years as the people see their politicians in Africa for what they are. Mostly dishonest and only out to enrich themselves in my opinion.

The power of people when they come together for a common cause; after 23 years, they had enough of it! I wish them all the best!

Almost the entire Islamdom is ruled by tyrants appointed, supported, or picked etc. from the West. Almost all of them have huge financial reserves in the West, have a family home there, or keep their families out of the country &c. Salman Taseer was Canadian, other Rulers in Pakistan are from United States of Israel, and England, Afghanistan has Karzai appointed by USI. The Saudi the Jordanian, and the Egyptian Rulers are puppets of USI. The entire region is unstable and can crumble any time. Revolutions have positive feedback, and cause things to unravel at increasing speed. Tunisia may be the fuse for this explosion.
canjudge

All politics is local, what do Tunisians have to say? I'm not one so I'm more interested in their responses, if any.

Voice of the people is the voice of God.Will and not force is the basis of Government.What has been demontrated on the sreeets of the capital Tunis is more than referendum against the President.So the decision of the Tunisian President Zine-al- Abidine Ben Ali to step down and not to be a candidate for the Presidential election again is quite democratic and sagacious.He is a great man, he does not want to cling to power.The Tunisian Prime Minister will take over tha reins of administration from the President.The future course of political Govenment depends on how the Acting President manages the election to the coutry's highest office. When the allegations of corruption, unemployment and rising prices is widespread against a government, in the best interests of the country the Chief Executive of the Government should vacate his office and make room for the people to elect a leader of their choice.The Tunisian President has just done that and respected the popular will.

The political change in Tunisia in such a a manner may have its spread effect in the other Zagreb countries, and it augurs well for democracy.

In June 2008, the US Ambassador to Tunisia wrote "According to Transparency International's annual survey and Embassy contacts' observations, corruption in Tunisia is getting worse. Whether it's cash, services, land, property, or yes, even your yacht, President Ben Ali's family is rumored to covet it and reportedly gets what it wants."

It seems Tunisia's people were on a slow burning fuse, or have demonstrated remarkable tolerance towards corrupt leadership. It will be a great shame if their example is not repeated against all regimes who have deprived ordinary people of a slice of the wealth cake in pursuit of the their own greed.

Let the people have the truth and they will know how to respond to it.

3. At 4:31pm on 14 Jan 2011, ravenmorpheus2k wrote:
If the Tunisia leadership is anything like that of the UK then the recent "unrest" won't have any impact whatsoever.
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Oh dear more stupid politically motivated pops at the UK government.
Listen mate I've spent a lot of time in North Africa.
Thank your lucky stars that you live in the UK because what they have over there is light years different from our lives here.And that is under both Labour and Tory governments. Maybe you should go and live there for a time .

If it wasn't so serious you'd have to laugh at some of the stupid comments on here, made by people who haven't a clue what they are talking about.

No reaction I'm afraid we have our own problems to deal with.

I think Tunisians are making a terrible mistake in their history. Simply history shows that revolution, first, eats its makers. In other words, people who are revolting nowadays in Tunisia will destroy themselves by themselves in the coming competitions on power. As George Orwell's Animal Farm goes: in the beginning, it was said: "all animals are equal' and it turned later to "All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others". So cry of alarms in Tunisia. Another Ben Ali is coming.

I prefer Ben Ali than another Ben Ali with different Id and tactics. Now Ben Ali does not care much about wealth , because he has got enough of in the 23 years on power. He simply cares to stay on power and works to keep it whatever "ends explain means". So, another Ben Ali will come to power and he will do his best to have as much as wealth and push a rigid system. I may be accussed to have a piscimistic views: possible. But I would to remind you of this story: A man spoke to his leader asking him why don't you rule like the prophet and his followers did. The leader ansered; give me citizens like the prophet's citizens will do the same. In brief, food comes before democracy.

"During the Cold War years, the Western propaganda was chugging daily with radio programs to the communist audiences in Eastern Europe this motto: "Give me liberty, or give me death!" Now the Tunisians cry for "liberty," but they are given "death" by Ben Ali. And the West just looks the other way! Shame on us - and our democratic tinted hypocrisy!"
Nikos Retsos






I recall vividly that when (mostly) young Iranians were dying in Tehran streets protesting an election sham and the ayatollahs regime in the Islamic Republic of Iran, many of you were demanding that U.S., UK, etc., stay out of it and do not intervene in Iran's "internal affairs".


Demonstrating the same attitude as when Communist military junta in Poland imposed martial law in that country and arrested thousands of "Solidarity" union activists.


And as when the Red Army drowned Hungarian Uprising in blood in 1956 most West Europeans expressed a desire "not to provoke Russian bear".

Not that I saw any protests in Western Europe about the recent Moscow military agression against small (only lately independent) Georgia.

So which one is it now?

al- Abidine Ben Ali was ruling for 23 years. Our experiences say any leader if remains in power for indefinite period he turns to be a dictator.If we recollect old leaders like Markos, Heile Salase, at the initial period they were heroes but after long reign they became unpatriotic. The people of Tunisia have driven their long lived president for economic change.This will be a message for leaders like
Mubarak of Egypt, Al-Asad of Syria and all the kings of middle eastern countries like Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Kuwait and many more who are running their countries in decades as totalaterians. The people of ME cannot raise their heads for fear of loosing their heads any time. Because of their oil wealth these kings and sheikhs provide their subjects with sufficient foods, clothings and health cares. Tunisia, Egypt or some other countries who have no sufficient means to provide amenities of lives, there is a change of revolts and demands.

Tunisia's examples should be a reminder for the countries who have no oil wealth but sticking to power without elections or rigged election. Hosne Mubarak everytime gets 90% votes no matter the condition of economy of the country. Leaders like him should take note of Tunisia.

At last a serious subject, and not all this waste of time on by-elections and the Pope. I just hope that the people of Tunisia can sort out their own problems without interference from any other nation. Democracy can only happen when the people have their say, and a country is left to sort it's own problems. Interference is the cause of wars, terrorism and years of oppression.

90. At 08:06am on 15 Jan 2011, hicmoussa wrote:

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So you think that the Tunisians should stick with a corrupt, autocratic tyrant because a revolution might leave someone worse in power?

When people are desperate enough to take thier owns lives, as the young man who sparked this situation was, then perhaps it is worth the risk?

It is up to the people to decide thier own futures, not fake demecracy run by those motivated by nothing more than self interest.

Good luck to the Tunisain people, who are fighting for what we in europe consider basic rights.

With some luck this is what we are heading for.
The Tories heading for exile.

Good when this happens here, though actually on a far more important note I like Sean Connery.

75. At 11:50pm on 14 Jan 2011, Andy_Pandy1968 wrote:
.....Very ill informed!
1. I suspect Tunisia would be doing quite well if it had been receiving $7bn p/a from the USA for the past 62 years. (That’s about $10k for each man woman and child) like Israel has!
2. With Israel’s track record of war crimes and disregard for International law, who wants to learn anything from them?

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It seems to me that you are the one who is ill informed!

Tunisia was a goldmine for tourists & should have worked.
As usual the elite syphoned off the money - Mr. le President will spend the rest of his life in luxury.

As for US aid to Israel - what about US/EU aid to Palestine & Egypt - millions upon millions? Most of it also syphoned off millions at the expense of the poor Palestinian.

Israels/Jewish ability to create work does not depend on aid - just look at their industries, cinema, medicine, agriculture, computers. This will give you an idea of their work ethic.

Keep the population down with the aid of religion & brutal police - & make sure that the educational system is poor - & they can easily be controlled.

Let's hope the citizens of Iran are watching closely & learning.

I couldn't care less.
The last time i was in Tunisia i was a young boy and two men held me at knifepoint while they demanded 5 Dinars from my Farther.
Unfortunately for the two men my Farther was an ex-army and viciously took the knife off them then gave them what for.
I bet it still hurts.

This is a worrying turn of events as it represents an opportunity for Islamic extremists to infiltrate and even takeover government in Tunisia. Any Moslem country, thrown into instability, can fall prey to these people whose avowed intention is to wage assymetric warfare against the West, including the UK with its own embedded Moslem community as a base.

I think the greatest fear of the West is that in Arab world there is only two types of regimes,Absolute dictators or religious fanatics.

The West sees the absolute dictators as the "lesser evil".

Hopefully,Tunisia will create a political system that benefits all in society before AQ decides to do what it did in Iraq.


95. At 09:17am on 15 Jan 2011, vindict wrote:
"With some luck this is what we are heading for.
The Tories heading for exile."

70% of the population forced Labour into opposition.

Personally,i though they should have all be up on charges of conspiracy of Treason for their attempted social engineering program to make the UK a one party state.