Should school exclusions be scrapped?

The Institute of Public Policy Research should be abolished and save public money which could be better used else where; that is the conclusion that should come out of this simplistic, politically biased and badly researched report.

I always thought all children were vulnerable. Most of them are vulnerable to classroom nuisances, the symptoms appearing as a variety of negative affects on their education.

Stop pandering to those who have suffered poor discipline from poor parents, and start remedying the whole way you deal with disruptive people.

No. Badly behaved children should be excluded in order to protect the education of the others. Every child has a responsible adult - a parent or guardian. They should bring their kids up to show respect. It's no good concentrating on the offender. Get them out of the way and concentrate on the good kids. My education was damaged by bullies and disruptive brats. They were eventually expelled but not soon enough. The damage had been done.

Another "think tank "? How many of these ridiculous quangos are there?
So the unruly, unteachable and disruptive pupil has become the victim in these "experts" eyes. So what about all the other pupils who behave themselves. Surely, these are the vunerable ones. Vunerable to the "think tanks" who would do well to remove their heads from where the sun never shines and take a look at the real world. How such money could be spent on schools instead of these quangos.

For once I agree with a union man exckusion may not help the education of the excluded child but a violent pupil is a problem for both staff and pupils the bully having had far too much leniency sees no consequence. The consequence needs to be more of a punishment than exclusion though I would suggest that the bully is taught in an enclosed enviroment with others of their own ideal, with a teacher and a policeman.

It is grossly unfair that well behaved children should have their education disrupted by a minority few which are disengaged from society as a whole.

I'm sorry, but if you're going to muck around and disrupt the education of my children then I don't see why you should be allowed to share a class with them. It is your problem, and it shouldn't be made the problem of twenty three other children as well because of your disadvantaged background.

All children are vulnerable, and trhe education of the hard-working and well-intentioned is threatened by the duisruption and danger posed by uncontrollable, ill-intentioned and menacing thugs.
Children with SEN are a different case; they should be put back into re-created special schools adapted to their needs and staffed by those who understand them. Of course we had these once; many were excellent but were closed down by this useless government with its doctrinaire mantra of inclusion, which means, in the end, cheap, PC and serving no group well.

No I don't think it should be scrapped. But for the benefit of other pupils exclusion should be exactly that. Excluded students, whether they are vunerable or just plain disruptive should be moved to intensive units where they are given the support they need and made to work so that they leave school with at least half a chance of being able to behave and communicate properly, get a job and be a decent and useful member of society.
Maybe instead of so many touchy feely social worker types these units could have some staff trained to give the sort of coaching given to actors and opera singers - to teach them to move and present themselves and be comfortable in their bodies. I am sure this would give some of them more confidence and self esteem.

All consistent badly behaved school kids should be suspended or expelled from their schools if their bad behaviour persists.

What deterent is there too other school children if they see other badly behaved classmates getting away with it?

What we need here in the UK now are really tough correctional centres for school children with a persistent records of offensive behaviour,not special schools where these kids still get their own way with teachers apologising,stop making excuses for these kids and act now.

"Excluding badly behaved pupils from school should be abolished because it punishes vulnerable children, a report by a think-tank says. "

So well-behaved children, who wish to learn, should suffer instead?

One thing’s for sure, difficult pupils should NOT be left in main stream school where they can disrupt the running of classes and influence bad behaviour among the other pupils. They should not be left with teachers who are untrained to properly deal with them and should be left with people who are properly trained and experienced.

If you're going to take away a schools right to exclude you need to put an effective alternative in its place!

Should we get rid of young offenders institutes while we are at it? Then why not prisons?

I am only 22, but I already see a huge gap in the respect children have from my generation to theirs. I would never have dreamed of swearing at my teacher or giving lip to older kids. I fear for this country when they are in charge.

The teachers in the UK have to be saints to carry out their work in this day and age, getting rid of expulsion seems ludicrous.

No, the child should still be excluded because of the disruption they cause, but there can be little doubt that the real blame lies with the parents and it should be them that get punished - How?, I am not sure.

If you read this report then it's only your own time you're wasting !.

Badly behaved pupils should be caned (as a last resort of-course and if other methods have failed to work). Head teachers should be retitled Head Master or Mistress and pupils should be made to stand when teachers enter the classroom. In extreme cases where a particularly badly behaved child cannot be dealt with using reason, extra lessons or corporal punishment they should be permanently expelled and made to do their schooling in a military style reform school. Only when they have learnt self-discipline and a respect for authority should they be allowed back into a normal school. This all sound a bit far fetched to you? Well it's what we had in the 1940s and 50s and it worked well. Kids are kids and all kids are opportunists. If adults can't keep order and demonstrate authority in the classrooms we run the risk of producing very poor parents for the future (as is already happening I know). Back to basics. Respect for teachers and adults. Self-discipline and a firm (but fair) hand. The authors of this report need to get real!

'Think Tanks' 'Government advisors' I thought the idea was that we voted for People who then made the decisions. Surely that's what they are paid lots of wages and expenses for !.
Instead it seems the decisions are farmed out to non elected business's....ooops! I mean 'Think Tanks' who of course have no financial interest in the solutions they come up with.

No.

This should read "Should exclusions be banned because it punishes "bad" children".
It shouldn't be banned but those children should be sent to old fashioned borstals etc.
What a waste of money this think tank is & full of left wing, gaurdian readers i bet !!! Bloody well "wake up"!!!

Once again its the disruptive minority getting their needs put above the needs of others. What about the rights of children who want to learn, who want to attend school, who don't feel the need to cause misery and disruption to their classmates? As usual they are sidelined! Exclude PERMANENTLY disruptive, unruly pupils and stop pandering to their irrelevant requirements! If they can't behave with respect they forefit their right to an education. I for one won't be loosing any sleep worrying about them either!

I personally think these ridiculous 'think tanks' should stop thinking and go and do something more useful instead. These disruptive children are excluded as a last resort in most schools, EVERYTHING has been tried to keep them in school - should other, hard working, students suffer because these children decide that being a bully, disruptive and/or abusive is fun? Of course not!

Exclusions should remain and this 'think tank' should shut up.

Every child that wishes to learn and do well in school will be again hampered because some nutty liberal suggestion.
If kids dont want to learn,cause disruption and threaten or cause violence,they should be thrown on the scrap heap and leave them to the life there destined to anyway...on the social.
Common sense must return to this country before this country is overun with anarchy because of those liberal parasites delusions of perfect state.

“Excluding” - the very word itself becomes my answer:
It is never right to "exclude" a child – badly behaved, obnoxious, or even armed (and subsequently disarmed).
It’s posible that some children are born “bad”, but in God's grand scheme, the majority of us are born neutral - ready for the impact of nurturing and environment.
What the parents and household have not given a bad child, society must try to replace. To me that means NO disengagement from education, NO handing over difficult pupils to local authorities.
Can you imagine being unwanted at home, unloved at home and then becoming unwanted and disowned at school? These children should remain the responsibility of the school; some schools in bad districts will have more "responsibility", and should receive additional funding accordingly.
A bad child needs help. A bad child needs OUR help. A bad child should be embraced in the "counselling" milieu attached to each school, and I don't mean career counseling. I mean psychiatric, psychological, sociological testing and counselling aimed to target the problem and establish a salvage plan.
Think of this: what does exclusion do?
It dumps the kid on the street, likely with other bad kids…as well as you and me.

It's ridiculous to say these children should be kept in school. Taking them out will certainly disrupt their education, but leaving them there will disrupt the education of ALL the other children in the class.

Why should those who want to learn be penalised in this way?

Sounds like a pointless report by an organisation trying to justify its existence....

As soon as I saw the acronym DEMOS in the article, all was explained.

These people live on another planet and not this one.
They have a history of coming up with batty ideas which in the main should be treated with ridicule and utter contempt.
There is an opportunity to save public money here by abolishing them and redirecting the money towards 'special schools' for badly behaved children.

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This think-tank should learn to care about the good kids, not the few who make their life hell.
We need to bring back special units like approved schools that take these disruptive pupils and teach them how to behave. They may well have to be boarding schools, because often it is the parents that are the problem. Yes, it would be expensive to start with, but the savings would come when those children grow to be responsible, tax-paying adults rather than criminals costing us a fortune in prison and probation etc.
The new schools should be part of a wide variety of secondary schools instead of the one-size-fits-all comprehensive.
We need:
Grammar schools for well-behaved, strongly academic children
Technical schools for the well-behaved more practical (NOT more stupid!!)children
Approved schools for the badly behaved
Special schools for those whose disabilities are too great to cope in a different school
Introduction schools to take children with no or very limited English for a limited time and concentrate on language until they have enough to cope in one of the other schools.

Only in this way will all children get the quality of education that they need and deserve, and that is suitable for their individual talents (and they all have some, just different ones)

Exclusions probably should be dumped, but not for the reasons given in the proposal. They should be dumped because it's an easy way to legitimately bunk off for two weeks.

Of course it is wrong to exclude pupils. This just sentences them to a life of under achievement whilst the cause of their behaviour is often outside of their control.

Firstly, there needs to be 'special' classes where problem pupils can be taken out of the mainstream class so as not to disrupt others and where they can be given the support that they so obviousln need.

Secondly, involve the parents whether they like it or not. I've often thought that detention was a good measure but maybe it should be law that detention is served WITH the parents present and not just doing lines or whatever they do now days but used as an opportunity to discuss the problems.

OK I can see lots of problems with my second point - but is some merit. Children that do well are more often than not (but not always) from homes where the parents take an interest in their child's education and future.

However the real challenge is society - children value how they are seen by their peers above all else: what brands they wear, what phone they have. This exerts a huge pressure to conform with their peer group which often holds them back educationaly - even as far as not being seen to be 'nerdy'. It's about time the adults took back some control.

Why not resurrect the institution that can handle these unruly and disruptive children - the approved school of old days.
What they require is order, discipline and education, not pampering to their whim of not going to school "cos its boring."
Maybe it would also be cheaper in the long run because we would not have to educate these individuals in later life.

Don't exclude them put them into Eton.
Didn't these people who make such recomendations ever go to school, or were the schools they went to so posh they had no badly behaved children? The rest of us know that 1 badly behaved pupil absolutely destroys the education of everybody else in the class. Or perhaps thats what they want to achive, to destroy the chances of the poor kids so they cannot compete against their little tarquins. We used to have borstals for such kids, but they were abolished for fear of seeing to punish the little brats, so instead they want to inflict them upon everybody else. As I suggest, put them into Eton where the quangocrats children go, they'll soon change their minds.

Schools should certainily exclude disruptive students from the classroom so that those who want to learn, can. Short exclusions can be to another part of the school (sin-bin) but long-term exclusions (more than a day) which end up with pupils on the streets benefits no one. There must be somewhere to exclude to - like a special unit/school equiped to deal with disruption and so on. There is no point exlcuding some kids to go 'home' since that is exactly what many of them want. I'm with Vanessa on this; special units, boarding as required, firm (but fair) regimes.

Think tanks have their purpose but the quality of their recommendations can only be judged on the basis of the evidence they have collected and analysed. I have not read their report so cannot judge.

Clearly, if you have a violent, abusive, disruptive child then it must be removed from the class to protect it, its classmates, teacher and other staff.

It is what happens next that is the issue.

If the ordinary state school school has the financial resources, specialist facilities and properly trained staff to deal with such children on a one-to-one basis, then one could argue they could remain in charge of the child. Since most ordinary state schools do not have these resources then the Headteacher and Governing Body must be empowered to exclude children as a last resort. Other solutions must therefore be found.

Properly funded and staffed 'special schools' working with these children according to properly researched and evidence-based treatment regimes, are the best solution. The cost of this service has to be balanced against the cost of managing severly disturbed, poorly educated and socially dysfunctional adults in the future.

Obviously childern do not become a problem without some breakdown in parenting, so very early intervention by other agencies from birth is required, in a fully integrated network, again working to evidence-based procedures that are known to be effective.

There is a viscious circle here of poorly educated, emotionally unstable and totally unprepared people having children, whom they are unable to care for in an appropriate way and who end up causing problems in school and then going on to have problem children themselves. It follows that parenting skills and the realistic responsibilities and costs of child care must form part of the curriculum in all schools to break this cycle.

This is a complex problem that interelates with other social evils, and which requires a joined up approach by social agencies and educationalists. We should go out into the wider world and learn from other countires who have dealt more successfully with this problem.

Each end every incident is different. Nothing can be gained by putting every school into a defined box. Instead of Ministerial interventions. Schools and there trained teams should be the ones to judge each case on its own merrits. The reason for a backlog of uneducated, wildchild children is down to goverment fiddling with the education system and taking the power away from the people who need it.

This is by far one of the worst ideas I have ever heard.

I've been through the schooling system, I've seen these feral children with no intent but to be disruptive and violent, schools should be given MORE freedom to remove them not less.

They talk about the rights of the unruly children but what about the rights of the teachers who want to teach and the other kids who want to learn?

Children who disrupt classromms should most definately be removed. The future of the country depends on a decent education, so anything that helps pupils who want to learn should be done. As for the so called down trodden lunatics that want to cause trouble, we should stop pampering them, so they should be removed and put in to systems that can change their behaviour (and their parents bought to bear as they have had a huge in put into their childrens behaviour). I would suggest these camps where the kids are trained by some of our retired expert military trainers. This would be a massive improvement, and stop the benifit system that makes lazy parents reliant on it and maybe their attitudes would change if they actually had to work for a living. One other thing that needs to change and quickly are these liberal ways of teaching because it quite clearly does not help our youngsters.There is no way that standards are as high as they were even 20 years ago, you only have to look at some of the rejects leaving school now. They can hardly spell & communication is a completely alien concept to them.

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apparently primary school teachers can spot problem children from very early on - why then not single them out for specialist help with 'properly trained educators' early on? perhaps some of the disruptive misaligned children could then go on to secondary education as 'well behaved as the average child'?

When will the wolly liberals realise that some children need to be taken out of the classroom for the benefit of the rest of the children in the class.

It is this 'inclusion at all costs' thinking that has led to entire schools full of cretins.

What about children who want to learn being vulnerable to having their education disrupted by those who don't want to be there? It's just another woolly idea.

I had to put up with the stupidity of mixed ability groups at school. My education was held back by those who misbehaved or weren't intelligent enough to understand the subject matter, so I didn't get to learn as much as if I'd been in groups with kids of the same ability and willingness to learn.

Preventing schools from expelling unruly kids will make the majority suffer just like mixed ability groups do.

I actually agree - they shouldn't be "excluded" (practically rewarding bad behaviour with days off), they should be TRANSFERED! Send them off to a "special" school more able to deal with their "special" needs, if they are unable to cope, or are over-disruptive in mainstream education.

If they have a serious disability which is causing the bad behaviour, that's the right place for them (too many kids are being placed in mainstream now that just shouldn't be there). If they don't, they'll soon get the message about where they'll end up if they don't change their attitude.
If they still don't get the message, transfer them to young offenders. They've been given enough 2nd chances by that point.

Exclusion from the classroom is the only answer.
Whether the child remains the responsibility of the school or not is another matter, do they have the extra teaching staff to deal with disruptive children elswhere within the school?.

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Badly behaved children always claim the lion's share of a teacher's attention, at the expense of other children. This has been the case for decades, and it is extremely unfair. During my 20+ years as a teacher, I found that it was also much easier to get remedial help for a badly behaved low achiever than for an amenable child whose need was equal or even greater. It is time to stop favouring troublemakers and their parents, and concentrate on children of all abilities who want to learn.

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Why is it that the majority of posters here can see the ludicruous nature of this statement and yet there are self-important people wasting energy and time coming up with idiotic statements on something they clearly have no idea about?

To state that 1% of PRUs achieve 5 A*-C grades yet 75% achieve in mainstream implies that the PRU entries would do better in mainstream. Yet they are the very group who would detriment the 75% significantly and would not have achieved in mainstream in any case.

Taking one student out can secure the education of many whilst ensuring that one remains can be detrimental to too many! Further teacher training is always stated as the answer by people who have never been inside a challenging classroom.

Will tell our kids "you're not good enough as you are, get educated, get ready for work."

I work in education, my students don't know who they are.
All they know is they are not good enough, yet.
Our system is appalling.

We should be adapting and edifying our society, NOT our progeny
Then maybe we'd have some progress.

All this user's posts have been removed.Why?

I wonder which think tank defends the students who do behave, who do not break the rules and who work diligently only to have their learning disrupted by unruly children. Frankly the school has a duty to educate but if the child is incapable of behaving then the school should not have to spend a disproportionate amount of time and resources on them at the expense of those children who seek to learn.

Yet another example of how this government wants to drag the whole education system down. They should be used more not less and no private tutors at tax payers expense for those who have been excluded.
It used to be that the strongest pupils determined the pace of learning, now they are held back to the pace of the weakest simply because it would be racist if they were not held back to accommodate those who barely speak English.

All this user's posts have been removed.Why?

Violent or aggressive pupils should and must be removed from schools where they are likely to cause harm, physical and mental, to others. I would not expect my child, or teacher, to have to be around a violent person. A 13 or 14 year old boy can be very tall and well built and could be a serious danger to others; you cannot assume that all children are little and manageable! If a child has special needs then they should be schooled in a specialist school; where they are not confronted by other children who do not understand their needs and are very likely to disrupt their schooling. It is unfair to expect a child to cope with a disability and education amongst other people who are not disadvantaged. This makes them stand out more and makes them a target. When they have mastered their education then they can deal with their environment.

Schools are responsible for a childs education not thair behaviour.Sooner the parent,s understand and accept thair responsabilty the sooner the schools can teach,

Sadly not just a UK problem.

I DID misguidedly come back to Hull last winter to teach at a new Academy....cajoled a 16 year old into surrendering his earphones which he was using in my presence quite openly and provocatively, he JUMPED ON ME in a corrridor ( and it was clear to see on CCTV) a couple of hours later when I refused to give him the earphones back ...his 'punishment'?? A fortnight of lie-ins under the duvet at home!
As My GP at the time said, I'll only authorise you to go back if I can prescribe a Kalashnikov! I was at that 'school' for some 6 weeks in total....same old story, 95% of resources spent on 5% of feral children who themselves are VICTIMS....
How to sort it?
Rigid (non-corporal) discipline, headteachers who stand up to parents and wishy-washy leftie do-gooders in society (especially their own Governors and LEA 'elders and betters'!) and sensible, painful sanctions.
This lad should have been made to apologise publicly then do his schooling in the evenings and weekends for a month when his friends were out and about. SIMPLES!!
Far too much 'poor little Johnny' /'negotiate with the child' mentality out there. His 'punishment' just further ruined his own tenuous 'education' and served no purpose whatsoever! (He was actually a really 'nice' lad potentially...just in the wrong environment! I could write books about what I saw at that 'academy'!...but you'd probably think I was talking about London Zoo's monkey house...fact CAN be stranger than fiction!)
Meanwhile over here in the land of the increasingly frequent 'amoklaufen' ( running amok/ stabbing and shooting spree) crisis (Germany)... 16 year olds threaten you as a teacher IN WRITING with a good thrashing and the headteachers send them on cookery courses and God help you if you dare to question the Headteacher's decision....they ban you from teaching for less!!.... and we wonder why the streets aren't safe in Europe any more...and it's the same in France, Spain and Italy I assure you.
Will the politicians EVER wake up??
Germany has apparently 30,000 too few teachers in situ and no way of replacing the ones who are retiring. The UK recently published a figure of over 400,000 people with QTS who were of working age who weren't active in education...any wonder?
Teaching can be the most fulfilling job in the world BUT the schools where you can actually teach are few and far between and vacancies NEVER come up in them...why? The existing staff are NOT stupid - why would they venture out into the 'holding cells for young savages' (see further my comments re Academy in Hull) to 'teach' instead??!
Sad! HUGELY simple to resolve though. (The Tories under their current leadership will unfortunately NOT solve the problem however. No backbone/stomach for it ...) More men in teaching needed. Sensible, firm but fair discipline. Less lazy/war-weary teachers. I'm not holding my breath though!

This is surely a no win situation. Exclude disruptive students and you thrust them out into their community to wreak havoc there. If you keep them in school other, well behaved children will have their lessons hijacked by the badly disciplined few.
It may sound extreme but dare I suggest physical punishment for the offenders. The cane, as long as it is not used to extreme, would soon focus their silly minds. Then to keep them away from youngster keen to learn provide a holding pen (room) where their behaviour is closely monitored. Treat the hooligans as they deserve and stop pussyfooting around their finer feelings. They have none.

Yet another 'think tank' demonstrating a chronic inability to think
Outside the 'tank'

This sounds like more loony-left PC "Little Timmy's self-esteem" rubbish! The only problem is where to send the little brats after kicking them out of school - bring back the Borstalls under control of the Army at the expense of the parents!

I think that, for once, a think tank is right. However, the rights of these vulnerable children must be weighed against the right-to-education of the children whose classes they are disrupting.

Another ridiculous idea proposed by spineless, hand wringing liberals and paid for by us, the taxpayers.

Children are the sole responsibility of their parents and we need a government with enough backbone that will hold parents accountable for their children's bad behaviour. Those parents that won't make their kids "toe the line" should be fined, no more excuses.

Society is already slowly falling apart due to this crazy liberal attitude of excuse making for bad and antisocial behaviour, there’s no real punishment as it is this will only make things worse, why should one child be allowed to disrupt a whole class, what about there rights to a proper education, the dog is being wagged by the tail far to much as it is.

I understand the concerns but the schools system has a key obligation to the children who wish to learn and are not disruptive.
They have the right to be able to make use of a limited opportunity to learn and no one should be allowed to take that away from them.
The parents have a requirement to make sure their children do not disrupt such key lessons. You cannot penalise the many for the sake of one.

what a load of rubbish! Exclusions protect the rest of the class from disruptive students so they stand a better chance of getting an education. "Vulnerable" students, you mean those with alleged learning disabilities. Well surely they should be in a school geared to deal with them rather than lumped in with other students? It's not about giving disabled children the same level of education, it's about having teachers with the right qualifications in place to deal with special needs. Ordinary schools don't have those kind of teachers.

My next door neighbors son was continually bullied at school, he suffered a broken arm, a nervous breakdown, and now three years on he still won't leave the house at the age of 18. His confidence is non existent, he cannot interact properly with people and spends most of his time in his bedroom.

The past two years has seen him work hard to gain his GCSE's self taught and spending long hours at his PC, he has finally passed his exams and we are all delighted for him. However the question is 'should school exclusions be scrapped' the answer is a very definite NO! get rid of all bullies, disruptive pupils, angry juveniles, and spare a thought for their victims and not them!!!!

Another product of a do-gooder society

This is all about kids who find learning difficult being denied an education. On that basis in simplistic terms exclusions serve no purpose. BUT, surely that begs the question "Why aren't they receiving Speacialist" teaching?" "Why aren't they already placed in a school geared up to deal with their behavioural issues?"

When the government (who ever it happens to be) can answer those questions and put in place systems to place these children in the CORRECT learning environment, then and only then, can they consider banning exclusions.

Without the ability to send a child home some teachers don't have any fall back position to punish or deal with bad behaviour. And as soon as a seriously badly behaved student realises a teacher is powerless to stop their behaviour they have control of that situation.

If you are going to stop children from being excluded you HAVE to introduce something else to replace it - the short list of course includes caning. But have we got the guts to go back down that route?

Of course children should not be excluded from school. What gross discrimination! Indeed, they should be fast-tracked to University and given 1st class degrees and thereafter enjoy a lifetime of benefits living in houses provided by the taxpayer. Well, that's just about as silly as this report.

When I was still at school, if my parents had learned I'd been excluded they would have hit the roof! There is no way I would have seen a Christmas or Birthday present for years if my behaviour had gotten so intolerable I had to be sent home. Is that still the case today? not from what people who have LEFT the teaching profession are saying. Exclusion after exclusion is happening to the same students because no one at home is convincing them that this isn't a joke, it isn't something to be proud of, that they are destroying their future. Most likely because they are the children of parents who were excluded themselves - the same kind of ASBO collecting refuse that will vote for the BNP and blame Brown and immigrants for the state of their lives, instead of getting off their behinds and making something of themselves.

I suspect a lot of vulnerable children, including those with special educational needs, would benefit from the exclusion of badly behaved pupils.

yes the tories can bring real change, remember thatcher. bring it on lets have a regressive tax system and 'prizes' to big business chums. lets make the poor suffer and prosecute benefit cheats thatcosts pennies compared to the huge tax avoidance of big business and corporations

let the revelution begin!!

children are easily led by example so if you start leaving disruptive pupils in class the future's not very bright for our more sensible youngsters if we listen to our so-called experts

Disgusting that this question should even be raised. Compulsory education is fine but it's barmy to force people into school who simply don't want to learn, instead disrupt the one-and-only chance of those who do.

No. Kick em out. Set up "approved schools" around the country, bring in really heavy discipline and bung em in there for their education. Cost? Well, it's hardly going to be more expensive than having them wreck the educational chances of good pupils.

Or bring back the old school disciplines and practices. Have all the desks face front. Deal with them!

The authorities should be much tougher on bad parents. If a child has behaviour problems at school, which could be due to a bad example being set at home, there should be an immediate and thorough investigation by police and social workers. Violent parents, or partners, should be excluded from the home and unsupervised access to the children, and a portion of any income they might have diverted at source to the family.

Very badly behaved children should be removed from normal classrooms but not necessarily from the school. Local authorities should set up special units at at least some of its schools, designed and staffed on a sufficient scale to provide for these children. Ordinary classroom teachers should not be expected to deal with such children.

What utter morons!

We changed our sons school because of repeated bullying over 2 years by a couple of children who had "family issues" he is happy now away from them but they have by all accounts turned their attention on some other poor unfortunate children.

Some of these disruptive children get all the attention, support, trips, care and it still does not work, if their parents are a problem send them away with their vermin children too.

A boot camp school run by soldiers is well worth an experiment, preferably somewhere remote.

I have no sympathy with most of these kids or their families and I am sick of tax payers money being spent on them. Cre and compassion do not work, time for some hard knocks!

I'm a teacher at a successful state secondary school, we have been rated as "Outstanding" by OFSTED 4 time in a row, and a few weeks ago had our PSHE provision rated as "Outstanding" particularly with regards to our provision of counseling support to pupils with behavioural issues. OFSTED were sufficiently impressed that they are going to use us as a case study in a National report on PSHE provision.

Even with all that, from time to time we still have to remove pupils from the school. Describing that as lack of support on our part, or the victimisation of pupils with SEN, is not just simplistic, it's downright WRONG.

Do all schools provide the level of support? No. Can support be improved? Yes. Are there situations where, no matter the amount of support, a pupil needs to be removed from the school? Definitely! Is it a decision that is taken lightly? Definitely NOT!

I agree with 5XX, why should my child, bought up to do as he is told, listen and try hard at school, have his education suffer because some others will not behave in class?

I know there are children who have special needs (maybe Austistic Spectrum Disorder) they should be in schools where they would get the help they needed instead of going into mainstream schools who simply cannot cope. I may sound as though I don't agree with equal opportunities, but any parent who wants the best for their child might agree that putting children who have behaviour problems will have a detrimental effect on other pupils.

Parents should be assessed whether they can bring up children properly! Simply buying them gifts all the time does not compensate spending time with them. If you are wondering what my 3 are doing well, one is at University, one at college and the other is playing out on his bike!

Re disruptive pupils
I run a local scout troop we have one scout who at school is a very disruptive pupil at scouts he's the opposite.
When I asked him why he is this way he says he hates school
I agree any disruptive pupils should be kept away from the rest of the class but never written off.

Bad behaviour has no excuse - at what point is government going to waken up and start putting the onus on the parents to start parenting - and if they dont care, then either fine them or stop all benefits.

Parents need to understand that when their darlings go to school - they are personally responsible and liable when they misbehave.

Schools need teeth to pursue parents who couldnt care less.

Labour came in on a mantra of "Education, Education, Education" - its been more a case of spin, spend and spin some more.

Enormous numbers of children are missing out on a decent education because of the misbehaviour and persitent disruption of a significant minority of pupils. The poorly behaved individuals receive a disproportionate amount of support and resourcesin schools. Children who are well behaved but who perhaps need help to access the curriculum are neglected as a result because teachers simply cannot spend time with them when they have these naughty children in their classes to deal with. This is not about the quality of teaching or the calibre of teachers. It is about teachers having virtually no real mechanisms to deal with them and the kids know it. It is actually quite difficult to exclude children, they really have to misbehave in quite a serious way, and then usually return quite quickly and continue to disrupt. Until this is resolved there will be no improvement in the experience of most children in our schools. It is outrageous that we constantly focus on this disruptive minority and ignore the needs of the majority many of whom are also disadvantaged but who completely miss out. If you want to improve standards sort this out and the poor literacy and numeracy skills many children leave primary school with.

These think tank people must have very sore arms. They must pinch themselves every few minutes in absolute wonderment on how they landed such a cushy job.

THINK TANK 6 MONTH SCHEDULING PROPOSAL FOR: "Should X be subjected to Y"

5 MONTHS 29 DAYS: Play snooker, go to the pub, A&E from pinching related health issues, have a meeting on health issues, have a meeting on race relations, sharpen pencils.

DAY 30: Remember what you were employed to do in the first place, answer left wing.

the inclusion of disruptive students with non-disruptive students is unfair to the good students. this includes bad behaviour, and people with mental / physical disabilities.

students that are bad should be threatened with expultion, not this Labour induced "exclusion" non-sense, they'd done something wrong and are being removed because of it. they then should be moved into special schools that are appropriately resourced to handle difficult children. the end result is that the student, should they show adequate improvement, be allowed back to mainstream schools.

too many resources are spent on bringing underperformance up to averageness, rather than focusing on those that excel.

We need more Pupil Response Units, special schools where those children who are disruptive can be quickly sent so that they can be taught by specialist teachers in small groups. These schools should have special uniforms, longer hours and shorter holidays. Normal Exclusions are just treated as a holiday by disruptive children.

The report, supported by the Private Equity Foundation, calls for difficult children to stay on the school register and be put on a tailored programme of support.

Here we go again. The people who are trying to make something of themselves, get an education etc, are the losers. The ne'er-do-well's who get the extra support, money, benefits etc for doing nothing, are the winners.

Why on earth bother with trying to pay one's own way in society. Do nothing and you get it all free, including laptops, housing, elderly care etc.



The study, based on statistical analysis and workshops, suggests exclusion also does not solve behavioural problems and is linked to very poor results.

It says government figures show 1% of 15 year olds in PRUs achieved five GCSEs at grades A*-C or equivalent; 11.3% achieved five or more grades A*-G; and 82.1% achieved one or more qualifications.

And if THAT isn't an excellent reason for keeping the option of expulsion what on earth is??? It's all very well to talk about punishing very vulnerable people - and it may not be their fault - but it's surely better to exclude them than punish everyone else by inflicting their presence on people trying to get a good education.

Let's face it - if you can't deal with their behavioural problems before secondary school age, you lost long ago.

Its time to get rid of the do-gooders, If the kids misbehave then they should get the Stick. If they continue with there behaviour then expel them and put the parents in court, if their already in care then the local authoritys should be in the dock. Punishment is the order of the day, not suger and sweets.

Is this serious?
What about the other children and their right to an education without being influenced or disrupted? And in some cases, what about the safety of the teacher and other children?
A balance has to be struck and a range of measures in place to tackle disruptive behaviour, of which the last resort has to be expulsion. There also has to be a wise use of these measures to get best possible results and expulsion as a last resort .
Think tanks prove time and time again they are not in the real world and have no grasp of reality. Sometimes their worth has to come into question.

"Excluding badly behaved pupils from school should be abolished because it punishes vulnerable children, a report by a think-tank says."

I think that think-tanks should be abolished because they punish the public with their PC nonsense.

I think the truly vulnerable children are the victims of the excluded kids, not the exluded kids themselves!

Totally irresponsible statement by the Institute of Public policy, what needs to be done is provide "Military", type of discipline for those who have a problem blending in with the other students. In most cases it is anger, lacking direction, self hate and running with the wrong crowd that is responsible for the weird behavior. Why put the bad apples with the good and hope that all the apples will be saved by this policy? I would like to know how they select people to write the public policy? Many of the idiots have degrees from important colleges but lack any public perceptions, they are mostly book educated and not fact educated.

1. At 11:47am on 28 Feb 2010, Melchizedek wrote:
"The Institute of Public Policy Research should be abolished and save public money[1] which could be better used else where; that is the conclusion that should come out of this simplistic[2], politically biased[3] and badly researched[4] report."

[1] The IPPR is a registered charity. You can donate too.
[2] Er, less simplistic than your post here.
[3] Er, less politically biased than your post here.
[4] Er, better researched than your post here.

This is what's great about inviting comments and opinions: there is no obligation to base facts upon the reality.
What do I think about the report? I think it's a chicken sandwich. My ludicrous statement is just as valid as Melchizedek's.

As another survivor of merciless high school bullying I agree wholeheartedly that whatever we do with these children should take place outside the mainstream classroom. I still wonder how much more I could have achieved at school had I not spent much of it constantly watching my back and putting more effort into the ultimately futile exercise of trying to act 'thick' and conform in an attempt to have them leave me alone.

I don't agree with throwing anyone on the scrap heap, because ultimately that's just going to cause problems for everyone else down the line, but they need specialist tuition from professionals properly trained to deal with them in order to maximise the chances of them becoming useful and productive members of society, and that's not going to happen in a regular school with ordinary teachers whose time is going to be disproportionally occupied by a small number of demanding and disruptive kids.

And I'm thoroughly sick of these hand-wringing types trying to excuse the behaviour of these kids on the basis of their 'disadvantage'. I went to school with plenty of people whose parents were poor as church mice yet didn't resort to bullying, violence and petty crime. Many used the opportunities they were given and did well for themselves, obtaining Uni places or going into business. Several were the nicest folk you could wish to meet.

By contrast my former neighbours had a PS3, a flat-screen computer, a five year-old car all despite none of them working. They also had a brood of nightmare kids who went to school when they felt like it and spent the rest of the time terrorising the neighbourhood.

What we in the UK call 'poverty' would render one firmly middle-class in most of the world. The only 'poverty' in this country is of imagination, ambition and intelligence, none of which are solved by firehosing unconditional free money at people to try to bring them up to the level of those of us who work and see increasingly little in return.

Of course a system where even the bright kids have had the ladder pulled from under them by extortionate tuition fees, mountains of debt and a job market where you'll soon need an MBA to flip burgers doesn't exactly inspire the moderate-ability and working class kids to attempt to better themselves through education, especially when a better standard of living can be had by dropping out and getting pregnant.

As for 'early intervention' by the authorities, forget it. Social workers are there to scare the daylights out good, respectable parents whose children happen to be in the wrong BMI percentile for their age or who happened to be redecorating when the health visitor showed up. If they're not interested in protecting kids from abusive and neglectful parents why would they take an interest in their behaviour when there are far easier ways to put a tick in a box?

Sadly I don't see either of the main parties falling over themselves to change the status quo.

Most children in schools are quite happy and to let some of them have their lives blighted by some scheming manipulative bully's in order to suit some social inclusion plan or whatever is disgraceful.These thugs will create their own gangs and will use them to back up their threats and even cause other children to be blamed for any trouble they may have caused. Then having been excluded you will have parents(sometimes themselves bullying and anti social) protesting that their little angels have been victimised,but exclusion it must be.

Another looney left "Think-tank" coming up with the conclusion that bad behaviour is the fault of everyone else but the protagonist. Bad kids should given a writen warning to the parents for the first offence, suspended for 2 weeks for the second offence and excluded for the third, with the parents picking up the bill for tuition at a "school for excludees", since they clearly haven't taught their brats to behave in a normal school.

It's high time we stopped pandering to those who cannot behave. If you don't want to be taught for free, then get out of the school and let the state concentrate on those who do.

This is obviously a wind up to test reaction. No one can be serious about keeping disruptive kids in school rather than let their parents deal with them.

Rubbish. There should be more exclusions of badly behaved students. They made my life at school miserable, so much so that eventually I left because the school wasn't doing anything to stop it.

Personally, I believe that exclusion for the delinquent, disruptive children of this society is the easiest option for them. It is easy for schools to relinquish responsibility by no longer making these children their problem. Most of these children will have plenty of time to be sitting at home doing nothing when they are on benefits.
If they do not comply with the rules, make them work in isolation for the entire school day and after school.
It is important that schools tackle the problem rather than just dismissing it for a short while. If the child has social problems, give them counseling. If they are just generally non-compliant, make them do their work in isolation. Exclusion resolves none of the problems that have lead to the exclusion.
What kind of punishment is sending a child home that doesn't wish to be at school?

Exclusion too often dumps kids into nihilism and crime. My former school virtually abolished it by running our own effective punishment units (social isolation, work in silence, plus active restorative work with learning mentors). But there are always a tiny minority who are even beyond that pale. Frankly physical coercion would be needed here if they are to be contained prior to genuine reintegration.

Children are excluded from school because they are making the lives of all the other children a misery.
Or maybe they are a danger to all the other children.

Don't the other children count?

No-one should be given a second chance until everyone has had a first chance!

Pupils with special needs were educated in special schools where they received specialist attention. These were closed. Now these children are sent to mainstream schools which cannot cope with them so they end up excluded and sent to referral units!
Round and round we go in circles!
I taught for 20 years in a comprehensive school so I know what I am talking about
Small units attached to comprehensive schools may be the answer but will not be cheap

Of course disruptive children should be removed from mainstream schooling. I have had to pay a fortune for a private maths tutor for my son as the class was so disrupted by 2 children he was unable to learn anything. It seems the ill behaved get it all paid for by the state, those who want to learn either pay out again or let their education suffer. What about the rights of the well behaved majority????

Of course exclusions should be scrapped. How dare any child think they have a right to be educated when another child wants to disrupt lessons and take up the teacher's entire attention for the duration of the class.

Whatever next, will someone be denying the freedom of self-expression to the bully who simply wants to seek some artistic merit in placing the imprint of his shoes on some reluctant model's head?

We do not understood all the reasons why pupils may behave in this way; are some innately evil, suffering at home, mentally ill or trying to obtain attention? Whatever happens, they will cost the country a huge amount of money. If we do nothing, they will destroy the future of our best pupils. If we do not sort out their problems they will be a cost to society over their whole lifetime, often relying on state funding and causing crime. If dealt with in the school there is mostly insufficient manpower to give them the necessary one-to-one attention. We just have to bite the bullet and provide the necessary manpower, either in exclusion rooms in school or at specialist units. I think the latter will be more efficient in developing the skills and courses the pupils need.

As a educational professional, I can say that no school takes permanent exclusion lightly. Usually it is at the very end to a catalogue of distressing and frustrating incidents.
The school I work at currently has had a new headship since September and with all the staff and agencies involved, all strategies exhausted, several students have been permanently excluded, and the atmosphere is slowly calming and becomming a positive environment.
Schools are democracies where the good of the community of students, families and staff at times sadly have to outweigh the rites of individuals, if indeed all strategies and dialogues have been exhausted.
It has little to do with the social position of individual students, it is more often for the safety and well being of the majority.
These students who have made life difficult for themselves, and staff and other students should be removed, for the good of everyone. They are bariers to safety, wellbeing and at the end of the day, prevent learning for others which is wrong!

No. Badly behaving pupils need to be excluded. One rotten apple spoils the whole basket.