How to be Cornish

Here we go again.
The answer is quite simple,
All of the above, and more, in any number or combination.
The criteria that make one Cornish are the same as the criteria that make someone else Welsh, or French, or Brazilian, or even English.
Why does this question keep being raised?
I have not seen the same question being asked of any other nationality/ethnicity/population, so why is it continually asked of the Cornish? Unless it is an attempt to undermine, to belittle, to mock?

The yardstick we use to judge other places in the world in which we may find ourselves, it s the air, the scenery and people which creates a warm feeling deep inside, but different from our home more the area which surrounds it. Whenever I go away returning home across the Tamar seeing the Royal Albert Bridge kicks that warm feeling into life.

You're beginning to sound like the 'slimslad'/'Andrew Jacks'/'youngcornwall'/'saltashgaz'/'Peter Tregantle' consortium there, Mr Smith. Too much publicly funded time on your hands?

I wish I could say I could differentiate between England and Cornwall, both are much the same to me.

In truth when my children have grown up I will leave my birth place for villa in the Med having had enough of the second home owners, poverty and lazy negative attitude that feeds Cornwall, perhaps I can end my days doing water colours with a bottle of Conti Crivelli Pinot Grigio and an olive salad. Perhaps it would not be a lie to say I see Cornwall as a dying donkey waiting for the final blow.


If asked when I was younger I would have said it would be lying with a pretty girl on Porthcurno beech on summer evening (married to her now!)or jumping up to try and touch Logan's rock, now I have seen the world I want a more positive outlook

Within the Rules Graham?

This 'topic' has been done to death elsewhere.
Something you probably know full well already, judging by the trajectory of your initial post.
Behind the curve or just a pretended ingenue ?
As P_Trembath rightly points out, other indigenous sub-nationalities of the UK - the Welsh, Scottish or English are rarely asked this question with such obsessional regularity.
C'est un mystère.

"although clearly not everyone who sees themselves as Cornish would describe themselves as part of an oppressed minority"

An invented minority within a hypothetical minority because at the end of the day we share Englishness and British and up the scales we go to European etc

With regards to oppressed minority, I agree with the first word but suspect a lot of that is self inflicted, how many in Cornwall sit around demanding everything and expecting it?

How many use bigotry like "they took our jobs\homes". Shame when we hear the word Cornish some do not understand it is a culture, shire and people who share our life's not a protest group

Depends who you ask, I have found.

There are those that are forever quoting their lineage,,(even D.N.A. in some cases).

There are those that mock "emmets" and "incomers" and anyone that has not got at least 3 generations of history.

Personally, I think you are Cornish if you want to be.

I really don't know what makes one person Cornish or English or French etc.

But my yardstick is ask someone and get them to say the first thing that comes into their heads, most people know whether they are Cornish or not.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

What makes someone Cornish.
True Cornish have the get up and go, just look the whole world over, and they take their Cornishness with them wherever they set up home, not sitting at home and continually moaning.

“I am Cornish not English” is just a big smoke screen of convenience that some cling to, (poor souls) "oppressed minority" more like depressed minority.

Until people see the difference between a nation and a community these mixed messages will continue with nationalists playing word games to invent false support, “Cornish” is a culture, which anyone is free to join, leave or experience at a blink of an eye and it should never imposed or used as a weapon or threat against another culture or race.

How do you get on with this statement, 'Andrew Jacks':

'“English” is a culture, which anyone is free to join, leave or experience at a blink of an eye and it should never (be) imposed or used as a weapon or threat against another culture or race.'

To clear up any misunderstandings Mr. Jacks, could you please give us your definitions of what you mean by Nation and what you mean by community?
The definition of the word "Nation" on "The Free Dictionary", here:- https://www.thefreedictionary.com/nation is, I think most accurate. As is their definition of the word "Community", here:- https://www.thefreedictionary.com/Comunity
By such definitions the Cornish can accurately be discribed as both a Nation and a Community, it is also a culture.

Well said Andrew, top comment.

Graham is not for me to tell anyone how to be Cornish, neither is it for online nationalists to judge who is Cornish.

The two comments above me are fine example of the silly games on this forum, yet we are not allowed to point out how stupid the comments they make are

You are Cornish if you choose to be. You are English if you choose to be. To be British you have to apply for citizenship, (should you be born elsewhere.)

Anyone take on the mantle of "Cornish", therefore anyone can choose to take on Cornish nationalism as a hobby.

If you wee born in Birmingham, to Chinese and Russian parents, and have never set foot in the county of Cornwall, you can still be Cornish should you choose to be.

If you wee born in Birmingham, to Chinese and Russian parents, and have never set foot in the county of Cornwall, you can still be Cornish should you choose to be.
What a lot of Dingo's kidneys!
Simple answer, to be Cornish is
a) To have a Cornish lineage
b) To have been born in Cornwall
c) To live in Cornwall and feel part of the country, to love Cornwall, not be an outsider, no matter what creed or colour you happen to be or where you were born, you can be Cornish.

Do you have to be all 3?
A combination of the 3?
Or any 1 of 3?

In the absence of coherent rebuttal from Andrew Jacks or 'the consortium' this claim:
'“English” is a culture, which anyone is free to join, leave or experience at a blink of an eye and it should never (be) imposed or used as a weapon or threat against another culture or race.'
must, in terms of Andrew Jack's logic and the fact that 'England' is not an autonomous standalone national entity but, like the Duchy of Cornwall, a territorial element of the British mainland participating in the evolving project known as the 'UK', be as valid as this:
'“Cornish” is a culture, which anyone is free to join, leave or experience at a blink of an eye and it should never (be) imposed or used as a weapon or threat against another culture or race.'

Lets take our imaginary Chinese/Russian Brummy.

At the age of 85 yrs old he comes across a book "Breaking the chains", and reads it avidly. His inner Cornishman is awoken.

He decides to learn Cornish
He supports MK financially.
He signs all the pro-nationalist petitions online.
He celebrates St Piran's day.
He has a St Piran's flag on a flag pole in his garden.
He has a Cornish flag sticker on his car.
He wears a "Cornwall is next to England, just like Wales" t-shirt.
He learns all of "Bro Goth agan Tasow" every verse and can signg it.
He celebrates St Pirans day, Obby Oss day Flora Day, Montol, Tom Bawcocks eve and all the other "revived" celebrations.
He is there "in spirit" at all the nationalist protests.
he wears Cornish tartan, though he knows it is only a recent invention.
He makes and eats his own pasty daily.
He applies to be a member of the Stannary Parliament.
He contributes cash to the nationalist causes.

In fact in doing all of the above he participates more in Cornish culture and nationalism than 90% of people who are born and grow up in Cornwall.

Why should our imaginary Chinese/Russian Brummy not become a Chinese/Russian Cornishman?

Dave the rave wrote:
“He makes and eats his own pasty daily”

But can he put a Warren’s pasty in his mouth sideways without blinking? If he can he will pass with flying colours.LOL

Dave, sounds like the imaginary world Nick Griffin lives in to be honest, lots of imagination not a lot of substance. I was conceived in Wales,Lived there,have Welsh nieces, support Cardiff, support the Welsh Rugby team even.....and eat leeks, am I Welsh? No

Slimslad, for me only one of the above.

Good answer!

He decides to learn Cornish..As well as English,Cantonese and Russian? Clever lad
He supports MK financially...Can he lend me a tenner?
He signs all the pro-nationalist petitions online...Can he send me the link?
He celebrates St Piran's day.....Good Christian
He has a St Piran's flag on a flag pole in his garden....well the choice between that and the Patron of leprosy, plague and syphilis....
He has a Cornish flag sticker on his car...over the ford badge no doubt
He wears a "Cornwall is next to England, just like Wales" t-shirt....when it isn't in the wash
He learns all of "Bro Goth agan Tasow" every verse and can signg it....Goes down a treat at kareoke nights
He celebrates St Pirans day, Obby Oss day Flora Day, Montol, Tom Bawcocks eve and all the other "revived" celebrations.....he needs to get a 'obby...
He is there "in spirit" at all the nationalist protests.....so am I, usually single malt
he wears Cornish tartan, though he knows it is only a recent invention.....older than 60% of other tartans
He makes and eats his own pasty daily.....and keeps his bathroom cabinet supplied with imodium
He applies to be a member of the Stannary Parliament....sadly he doesn't pass their criteria
He contributes cash to the nationalist causes....That and MK?...but still hasn't got a train ticket to come down?

youngcornwall - But can he put a Warren’s pasty in his mouth sideways without blinking? If he can he will pass with flying colours.LOL

There are variations on this theme that might, who knows, bring further tears of mirth or even possibly additional pleasures to your eyes.

I agree with Paddy when he says ".. here we go again!"

Graham , that you, quote, "wind up some of my BBC colleagues ... start a discussion about what it is that makes them Cornish" suggests that this blog item is just a wind up as well!?

Perhaps a wind up question for the all the anti-nat minded naysayers ... "what is it that makes you English?" .. could be more revealing.

Anyway I'll bite, and risk the almost ritual 'hate' of the anti-nats - if only on behalf of what some call the 'diaspora' .. those who identify as Cornish outside Cornwall.

Rialobran proferred:
a) To have a Cornish lineage
b) To have been born in Cornwall
c) To live in Cornwall and feel part of the country, to love Cornwall, not be an outsider, no matter what creed or colour you happen to be or where you were born, you can be Cornish.

But then said later that it had to be all three.

I disagree although I don't doubt that is how Rialobran feels - and I suggest that any one is valid; though:

a) Having a Cornish lineage without recognizing that as providing 'difference' doesn't - a few million have Cornish lineage but either do not know or do not care. The many tens or even hundreds of thousands who do, including those in the 40 or so Cornish associations or societies around the world.

b) Being born in Cornwall, with that sense of 'difference' doesn't make you Cornish either (if you were born in Cornwal and think of yourself as English, then you are English not Cornish). On the other side of the Amazon, if you were born in Plymouth, or Calcutta to parents of Cornish lineage, then that doesn't disqualify you either.

c) Is a pretty good stab at that one
In all cases there is 'self-identification' with some basis to it, joined with 'acceptance'.

You identify as Cornish and are accepted as Cornish by those with whom you seek to associate (obviously not the naysayers).

Note that to be Cornish and of the Cornish nation is not the same as being a citizen of x .. there is a cultural dimension.

You can be a citizen of a state (UK, USA, China, South Africa) without sharing any common cultural identity.

As Saltash Gaz will probably love to point out - I am an Australia. I am a citizen of Australia, as well as sharing some identifiable Australian culture.

But I am also of significant Cornish ancestry and cultural memory, feel I'm at 'home' when in Cornwall, and self identify also as Cornish (shorthand: Cornish-Australian).

Am I accepted? Well I am by friends and associates there, and have been accepted by the Bardic Council and recognised for services for the Cornish and Cornwall - for me that is enough. Naysayers are irrelevant.

Kevrenor- "Slimslad, for me only one of the above." #22
I did not say
"But then said later that it had to be all three." as you point out.
a) b) and c) are only my feelings, as far as I can see you are covered by a) and b)
.......don't tell my mother being born in Cornwall doesn't make you Cornish...

My apologies Rialobran if my read of your post meant my words didn't reflect what you said.

Actually I'm covered by a) and c).

I wouldn't tell your mother any such thing. ;-)

Sorry typo.....it as nearly 1am :)

"I agree with Paddy".

What a surprise,Kevrenor!

Then you go on to misunderstand completely what Rialobran said.

Love your "word of the week"!

"Naysayer"

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

Mytten da!

Thank you Slimslad.

Peter Tregantle .. I see you've been listening to that 'mooting' font of all wisdom, Saltash Gaz, again. Don't let him lead you astray lad.

You'll be surprised on his advice to know that there are more than two Chris's in the 22.3 million population of Australia.

As I said .. 'Naysayers are irrelevant'

Cheers Rialobran.

Dew genes!

For those not aware of it Kevrenor lives in Australia and claims because one of his relatives might have come from Cornwall to be Cornish, Graham I think I have found my first candidate for someone who is absolutely not Cornish by any metric or yardstick.

This is the type of person who offends all Cornish people. At least people need to live or be born in Cornwall, to come here once a holiday should never be an entry

I think I am going to stick with the lady in Penzance. She was born there and the three generations before her were buried in Cornwall (after they died I hope). How many of you lot qualify?

Dave comment 20, not all nationalists are like Rialobran, AccurateChronometer and that Aussie. My parents as nationalists wish to protect the culture and invest in Cornwall. What we now seem to have is people who prefer what I call "attention seeking" for the want of a better phrase, they pretend to debate but mostly mock anyone and everyone with unintelligent comments.

Graham asked a sensible comment and look at the response?

He then expanded and asked about "oppressed minority"

Not one of these people who use this to abuse the moderation of these forums are able to express what an "oppressed minority" is or why we should want to use such a phrase, I wish we had ore Robs and less of the others who I am sure MK must kick themselves every time they make a comment.

The one thing that I really fail to understand is what can be achieved by fighting with your so-called Cornish people, or do we need to think that those who fight are anything but Cornish?

Graham has set the challenge, let see if anyone can answer his question in an adult manner?

Emigrants,(or the descendants of emigrants), usually make the best,(or worst), kind of patriot, depending on how you look at it.

For example, a lot of Irish/Americans have a sentimental view of the "Old Country" which was reflected in some supporting extreme Republicanism.

I would imagine Kevrenor has the same sentimental view, mixed with the "victim culture" so beloved of nationalists.

"Those naughty English"!

Peter Tregantle wrote:
This is the type of person who offends all Cornish people. At least people need to live or be born in Cornwall, to come here once a holiday should never be an entry

But saying that Peter it just shows the magnetism of Cornwall, just after a fleeting encounter they wish to adopt Cornwall and want Cornwall to adopt them.

This means “One And All” is working, and everyone is playing their part including the nationalist who add to the intrigue.

There you go Graham ... Peter Tregantle can speak for ALL Cornish people .. no need to ask anyone else.

Yes, Peter Tregantle has decreed who can't be Cornish.

There'll be some disappointed people in our Association down here on his decree ... born up country by circumstance to Cornish parents during the war, were doing it hard living in Cornwall later when they married there, emigrated, still love Cornwall ... but not allowed to be Cornish 'cos they weren't born there, nor live there anymore. 'Tis sad.

Still at least he is on the topic. Good lad.

YC - Peter it just shows the magnetism of Cornwall

Shame it does not bring people who can improve our lot in life, rather than driving us down and confirming other people's stereotypical image of the Cornish. We have enough troublemakers latching on and using Cornwall as an excuse to vent some anger

Anyone who wishes to be Cornish just has to subscribe to the notions of Cornishness and Cornish culture, and they can consider themselves as Cornish as the next person.

Indeed Kevrenor can consider himself Cornish if he wishes, I’m sure he would not deny our imaginary Chinese/Russian Brumie friend the right to declare himself Cornish.
Here’s some thoughts on being Cornish;
He stated: "Provided a person who joins the group feels himself or herself to be a member of it, and is accepted by other members, then he or she is, for the purposes of the Act (1976 Race Relations Act), a member. It is possible for a person to fall into a particular racial group either by birth or adherence, and it makes no difference, so far as the Act is concerned, by which route he finds his way into the group.”
https://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A6194595

Nationality exists in the minds of people, its only conceivable habitat. Outside peoples minds there can be no nationality, because nationality is a way of looking at oneself not an entity an sich. Common sense is able to detect it, and the only human discipline that can describe and analyse it is psychology. This awareness, this sense of nationality, this national sentiment, is more than a characteristic of a nation. It is nationhood itself.
Phillip Hoskins
https://alanindyfed.blogspot.com/2009/06/question-of-cornish-nationality.html

"The test of nationality is simple: How do people describe themselves? No-one says, "I'm not English, I'm a Sussexer." No-one says, "I'm not Welsh, I'm Anglesean." However, quite a few people say, "I'm not English, I'm Cornish." And on that basis I'm happy to recognize their identity.
https://forums.icwales.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=1023

Paul Holmes, a former member of the Cornish nationalist movement Mebyon Kernow and one of 2,500 Cornish speakers in the county, believes attempts to identify 'pure' Cornish people are flawed due to years of immigration by English and other settlers. 'You would have a hell of a job finding a 100 per cent Cornishman these days,' he says. 'If all Cornish people did their family trees, it wouldn't take them long to find some English blood somewhere. 'The fact is, being Cornish is a way of thinking, a passion for all things Cornish. Cornishness is a state of mind, not a state of genes.'
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/science-gene-map-is-lost-in-a-political-minefield-a-diabetes-research-programme-is-a-step-towards-biological-apartheid-angry-cornish-nationalists-tell-peter-dunn-1422350.html

An all-year-round job with decent pay and conditions. An affordable house to buy or rent. A health service that works well – and is as local as possible. Schools in one’s locality that offer an excellent standard of education. An end to poverty, or at least serious progress towards ending it. A healthy and life-enhancing environment. I suspect that most people in Cornwall see these issues, the right to seek and work for a good life, as what is most important. This is the real pro-Cornish stance. This is the real pro-Cornish agenda.
https://mudhook.wordpress.com/category/identity-ethnicity-and-race/page/2/

I note that the piece over which I hold full ownership and copyright has been removed. A shame. Still it is a matter of public record.

Still waiting to hear from the EHRC by the way Andrew Jacks. My next newspaper article is going to be about this issue and includes comments collected from my many friends who are of all nationalities, sexual orientation and ethnicity. I really thank you for flagging the matter.

Mike Chappell

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

How has this slipped into a question of nationality?

Cornwall is not a nation, Dave seems to have raided MK websites for answers, I take it he is a member which puts new spin on some of his previous comments.

Andrew Jacks wrote:
Shame it does not bring people who can improve our lot in life, rather than driving us down and confirming other people's stereotypical image of the Cornish.

Those that are into self harming to make their point are all part and parcel of being Cornish I am afraid.

Graham, you mentioned the added "context of "public funding for disadvantaged minority groups who seek "positive discrimination" to help them on their path to equality of opportunity. In the context of this thread, I'm particularly interested in the idea that if the Cornish are a disadvantaged minority group, someone can actually choose to join (with the potential benefit of accessing public funds.)"

As the Cornish are at present not officially recognised as an ethnic minority under UK law, then it hardly seems to be an attractive identity around which to cloak oneself for gain.

I am not one who suggests that the Cornish today are oppressed .. disadvantaged in ways that many English or Scots people are, but also in things like education in their culture and history.

Yes, the Cornish identity is attractive to some with reason to want to self-identify. Strangely in family history research in Australia I am often asked by people running such research groups "what is it about you Cornish .. as soon as someone finds a Cornish ancestor, off they go tracing that line above all else?

Yes I suppose I am one with some romantic ideas (tempered by the reality of Cornwall as it is today) and pride in history and culture but to brand those with such ideas troublemakers and having no rights to hold them is why I suggested that opening the topic is a wind up - as there are those who will always denigrate others (for what motives, who knows!).

I know a couple of young people of Australian aboriginal lineage .. they identify to varying degrees with that .. and none seek or take any benefits because of it, yet are still at times vilified on the basis that they must do it if they are aboriginal. No one should want to go 'there' in Cornwall I contend.

The concern you raised about self-identification and benefits is one that has arisen and been managed all around the world .. I suspect the Uk is still sensible enough to be able to learn from others and deal properly with what when it is boiled down, is an over blown concern.

Dew genes.

Peter please do not show it.

Sent as promised

Andrew Jacks
To ********@equalityhumanrights.com

Hello

The leader of the Celtic league has made the following statements on a bbc Website

https://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/grahamsmith/2010/10/from_mike_chappell.html

Comment 97

97. At 00:43am on 27 Oct 2010, MichaelChappell wrote:
£30,000 - peanuts! Today I was able to employ three CORNISH people in my business, to buy yet another property for affordable rent to CORNISH people, to have media students from the University attached to me as researchers and this evening to enjoy a glass of CORNISH champagne in celebration. Yes my next stunt. I don't read the news, I make it. I don't talk about money, I earn it. And for your information, a few days ago donated thousands to an event in Kernow next year. get in my way, and I am afraid you will be knocked over. I now have politicans asking to come onto my radio programme. They know that I am passionate about Cornwall so I suggest that you tell your imaginary Cornish Nationalist parents where they can place their paltry £30,000 kid.

and later

ETC ETC

Could you please investigate this person who seems to enjoy rubbing peoples face in his bigoted views

Many thanks

Andrew

Andrew, you misconstrue my intent.

I am using nationalist definitions of who can become Cornish, to show what a facile concept they uphold. Basically, anyone who believes what the nationalists believe, and who "feels Cornish" can be considered Cornish by them.

There are so many in the nationalist movement who have only adopted "Cornishness" (as a way of filling some void in their lives,) who are by birth Welsh, English, Australian, French or part Cornish by grandparent, that I'm sure they make up 50% of the Cornish nationalist movement.

What you will not get a nationalist to say outright is that there is a Cornish race, or a Cornish genotype, as they know this is so easily disproved.

"In 1951 over 70% of the people of Cornwall had been born in Cornwall and in 1961, with continuing population decline, no doubt nearer 80% would have regarded themselves as Cornish. By 1981, after two decades of rapid growth, the percentage of native Cornish among the population was probably around 55%. By 2001, at the present rate, that proportion will be more like 45%. "

So who are those "disadvantaged Cornish", who are so strongly fought for?

Apologies Dave late night

Sorry nobody claim comments are being censored I reacted to a comment now removed, my mistake should have waited.

YC – Guess I agree, but I suspect some are still confusing a nation with a community, what we need is word for those who think Cornwall is a nation, perhaps I could suggest Nat!

Is it offensive to say what you see?

It removes this grey area, as clearly Cornwall is an English shire and culture but not a nation

And how can you be an ethnic minority if the greater majority feel no empathy to be so?

Dave - What you will not get a nationalist to say outright is that there is a Cornish race, or a Cornish genotype, as they know this is so easily disproved.

Dave I honestly feel we need a term to use to differentiate between the Cornish and Cornish nationalist types and I propose Nat and ask if this offensive?

Can we have a ruling from the BBC PLEASE?

Then if we use that term and we hold the opposite opinion is it wrong to be Anti-Nat?

Here is what I base my evidence on

They are neither a minority, race or recognised as such by any official body, it is just an excuse used to hide our comments as so called bashing giving them the right to bash us for being, representative of normal Cornish people.

All the friction on this site comes from the fact a group are twisting the truth very any method possible and avoiding the truth and IMHO trying to take our heritage from us, we should be allowed to point out these are opinions reflective of the Cornish people whoever they are, given the debate seems to have gone very pc

You now know how to wind up some of your audience - just post something about what it means to be Cornish.

Is comment 52 a record?

Are you any wiser now or was this post just a means of measuring who's paying attention out here?

I recall many years ago sat with a group of elders of one of the Native North American tribes. Their land lies within the continental land mass occupied by the USA. They are regarded as a Nation. Similarly, around 10 years ago, I spent time with Kurdish refugees in the north of Turkey. They were living among the ruins of an ancient Roman amphitheatre. The Kurdish peoples are a Nation. The Cornish are as well. Be aware there are great differences between States, Countries, Nations etc.

My article of which i retain ownership and which has been published in several periodicals details such things and what it is to be Cornish. Over the last weekend, I was a guest at a wedding of two ladies in the far west of Cornwall. originally from London, they are passionate about Cornwall and now regard themselves as Cornish. I am by ancestry and DNA, hence Professor Bodmer and his team from Oxford are coming back to see me in December. They recognise me as one carrying the Celtic gene. That said, I equally regard my lady friends and indeed others as Cornish if that is what they choose to be. No one can deny them that right. That is why there are a wide range of employees working for the local authority from all about who identify as Cornish even though they be from elsewhere. That can only be for the good. In Ireland, they would be referred to as the 'new Irish'. In Cornwall, they are the 'new Cornish.' They are not English if they choose to self identify as something else as is their right under European Law. I myself am Cornish, of the British Isles and European. That fact is recognised on many official documents, at my Doctors, Library, University etc.

PS Andrew Jacks - Cornwall Council recognise the Cornish as a National Minority. Mr Razzak holds the portfolio at the EHRC and is aware of the stance held by our Council and of the recommendation made by the Council of Europe. We cannot be legally denied that right as well Westminster knows. Indeed, three years ago I had a meeting with Mr Cope the Director of National Statistics who also acknowledged this fact. Just watch this space and many many thanks again for reporting me to the EHRC and I mean that sincerely. You may have done us all an enormous favour.

Be aware of the difference between an Ethnic Minority and a National Minority although in both cases numbers are irrelevant hence the very word 'minority'. One person can feel this way and still the minority will be extant.

Phil wrote: Is comment 52 a record?

Phil you got me beat as you made comment 52

Any opinion on if nats exists or how you can have an "oppressed minority" when the much larger members of such a group express no willingness to be members?

Somehow I suspect not

backofanenvelope wrote:
I think I am going to stick with the lady in Penzance. She was born there and the three generations before her were buried in Cornwall (after they died I hope). How many of you lot qualify?

At present 5 generations are still alive and well living in Cornwall, and the family so far can be traced back to th early 1700's. Qualify?

Just watch this space and many many thanks again for reporting me to the EHRC

Not a problem,to confirm I was offended by your behaviour and will happily report you again

Dave the rave, good links

If such an "oppressed minority" exists why do the "oppressed minority" feel the need to abuse the greater community?

It is interesting reading the comments from the MK website as these are the people who created "Devonwall"

MK's Mr Cole said: "We believe that the Government is wrong to have rushed through this under-scrutinised and self-interested Bill, at great cost to communities and parliamentary representation."

This is a person who represnts 1% of the people in Cornwall, perhaps this is why

If MK are so inclusive why build a wall or use the phrase?

Nobody, (no matter how knowledgeable,allied to any organisation, or whose forebears and D.N.A. are seen as "impeccable evidence" of ancestry), has the right to dictate what it is to be Cornish,(or any other "ish").
Whether by birth, ancestry or inclination, it it up to the individual as to what they would wish to be described as.

Cornish people who see themselves as English should not be bullied by Irish or Welsh "wannabees".

Graham Smith wrote:
The issue tends to arise during discussions about public funding for disadvantaged minority groups who seek "positive discrimination" to help them on their path to equality of opportunity.

This could end up tarring Cornwall and those who wish to be known as Cornish with the big scroungers brush, "positive discrimination" because you are Cornish, what an insult, if Cornwall is going to be known as the land flowing with benefits and free handouts we can all look out.
I think half of Cornwall’s problems today have stemmed from the 60s and the hippy dropouts who used Cornwall as a soft touch.

Slimslad wrote:-
"Whether by birth, ancestry or inclination, it it up to the individual as to what they would wish to be described as.
Cornish people who see themselves as English should not be bullied by Irish or Welsh "wannabees"."
So, it is up to the individual to decide what they wish to be discribed as, as long as their not Irish or Welsh, in which case they're just "Wannabees".
Yep, got that, it's as clear as mud. Is it themselves who are describing themselves as Welsh or Irish "wannabees"? Or what?
Cornish people who do not see themselves as English should not be bullied by those who wish to impose their own opinions on all.
In fact, no-one should have to put up with being bullied by anyone, a simple fact that some on here seem to feel applies only to others, and not themselves.

It is clear a few (UN) feel all Cornish people feel they are an oppressed minority when in truth we are looking at a few dozen people thus a sub-set of Cornish people rather than everyone who embraces the term. And slim is correct many of those who claim to be this oppressed minority hail from outside Cornwall

I still don't get why some on here are so afraid to be Cornish, I don't get the fear they feel to be individual, different,to have a Cornwall that self governs to some extent, to field a rugby team with national credentials, or atheletes representing Cornwall, to have businesses invest in Cornwalls economy, to have a sense of nationality, whilst still living in a diverse community, I don't understand it and never will, but then they don't understand me and other people passionate for Cornwall.

"I still don't get why some on here are so afraid to be Cornish"

I don't think folk are actually "afraid to be Cornish", Rialobran.

I think some are afraid to be associated with the type of "Cornish" that is portrayed by some "activists",(shall we call them?)
These "activists" take for granted that everyone who calls themselves "Cornish" should support their particular "brand" of "Cornish-ness" with the same fervour that these "activists" exhibit.

Slimslad wrote:
I think some are afraid to be associated with the type of "Cornish" that is portrayed by some "activists"

I think “afraid” is the wrong word, do not want to be “associated” is more like it, my own Cornishness I don’t have to think of it, never have done, why should I? It just comes naturally like breathing in and breathing out, I do not have to proof anything to anybody, and why should anyone else, if they wish to dance around in kilts good for them, and that is the women I am on about LOL

Slimslad- Thank you for your rational response,better than most I get and 'they' wonder why I use humour when 'they' give some of 'their' replies.
Whilst I fully understand what you say, I generally feel that if somebody doesn't put their head above the parapet nothing ever gets done, never gets an airing and the status quo never gets challenged.The "activist" and their "brand" of "Cornish-ness" are just one form of 'head above parapet'.
Love it or loath it, here to stay.

youngcornwall
I respect your belief, especially the line 'my own Cornishness I don’t have to think of it, never have done' I am the same, but like some people follow a particular football team by going to every game and some just follow by watching the TV highlights but both follow the league placing, we have different ways of doing the same thing......I'll think of your words next time I have my kilt on

Surely the problem of "who is Cornish" only arises when blanket statements are made about "the Cornish" as if we are on homogeneous mass.

For instance there is a facebook campaign;

Cornish People Need Affordable Homes!
www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=4418901287

Surely, "some people living in Cornwall would like affordable homes"

If you are Cornish you will never be able to afford you own home" is a claim I have heard.

If you replace "Cornish" with "All"

All folk should be able to live, work and bring their family up in the place where they belong, where there parents belonged and where their forebears belonged.

As a basic right.

All folk should be able to live, work and bring their family up in the place where they belong, where there parents belonged and where their forebears belonged........almost a nationalist agenda there,lol...though I would add.....and where they most feel at home.

Slimslad wrote:
All folk should be able to live, work and bring their family up in the place where they belong, where there parents belonged and where their forebears belonged.

Very nice thought Slim, but how long would they last if everyone were adamant to stay put on the Scilly Isles, they would soon be overpopulated, same thing would happen on the main land

Andrew Jacks - please note: In my business I employ only CORNISH people, in my properties I house only CORNISH people. Please please keep complaining to the EHRC. It is important.

No other culture -off the top of my head- has people manipulating the name of the local community for something that the majority neither support or agree with. Cornwall is an English shire and the people that enjoy that community are Cornish and mostly English, I have never met a person from Kernowshire or a kernowish person, this is just petty games played by a few online radicals who have had read a few warped books and believe in crop circles and Elvis lives, the rest us know with England we will succeed along we will perish, in my opinion that is all that matter, what is better

For none second-home owners and chavs Cornwall is a compromise. With few prospects and little hope they might as well teach "benefits scams" in mainstream Cornish education, to children whose parents sit at home and wait for a high paid job, cheap house and expensive car to magically appear.

Our forefathers travelled the world now few make it past the local public house, a once proud tradition of jacks turned into lardy sacks, waiving a flag and wearing a kilt rather than teaching children to earn there keep.

This must be the new "stunt", Andrew.
Like the paper tearing and the pasty fast, it will end in tears.

Slimslad wrote:-
"If you replace "Cornish" with "All"
All folk should be able to live, work and bring their family up in the place where they belong, where there parents belonged and where their forebears belonged.
As a basic right."
That is a statement that I agree with 100%. Except that I would add "If they so wished"
We'll make a nationalist of you yet ;)

youngcornwall wrote:-
"Very nice thought Slim, but how long would they last if everyone were adamant to stay put on the Scilly Isles, they would soon be overpopulated, same thing would happen on the main land"
In that case, taking it to it's logical conclusion, you had better book your seat for the first colony ship to Mars, at the first opportunity.

Andrew Jacks..........a once proud tradition of jacks turned into lardy sacks, waiving a flag and wearing a kilt rather than teaching children to earn there keep.
I'm an athletic, flag waving, kilt wearing person who has taught his children how to work hard, I find your comments distasteful in the extreme.

Yes, youngcornwall. Thank you.

“associated” is better.

Some have yet to learn the fundamentals of good husbandry, or is it their excuse to stay at home and moan?

This doctrine that is being handed down to their children to stay put in a rut, wants weeding out of the children’s minds the sooner the better, it is child abuse nothing more and nothing less.

Rialobran much the same as I find your references to Nick Griffin vulgar in comment 22 which you made

I expect nothing more from a Welsh person whose presence here is belittle the real Cornish voice on the request of MC. As I am Cornish person I am free to make such judgements and would never dream of invading a Welsh forum and making out I was an expert on Welsh politics, your presence here is exposed so please do not play the faux Cornish person, the only person exploiting a position is you RT

I fully agree with the comments above (not Rialobran). Cornwall needs to start a fresh and give the children some hope; Andrew and YC are spot on,

Stop moaning,
Get an education, which employees want
Then a job anywhere and enjoy what life has to offer.

Moaning breeds more miserable people and is the symptom not the cure

Finally we hit the nail on the head, great work guys

HOPE, is in the hands of the young generation, come on councillors stop moaning about walls and start building a future via our young, not flag waiving, but based on education. Nothing beats people working; it encourages others and can only start with a solid education of industry desirable skills

We are all products of our genes and environment. Benefits should be a backup not a vocation

Andrew Jacks- I expect nothing more from a Welsh person whose presence here is belittle the real Cornish voice on the request of MC..............I am Cornish, born on the moor, not Welsh, I lived in the beautiful country of Wales, I support the Welsh national team, unlike you my heart is Cornish not English........and I hold by what I said at #22, the rest of you need a reality check, the problems you mention are a cancer on the whole island, and not just a Cornish issue.

Mike Chappell is welcome to employ only Cornish people, as it does not contravene any race relations act, as the Cornish are not a race.

However, I think that the points about the youth of Cornwall being given very negative images of what it means to be Cornish, as in they will only get low pay work and not be able to afford a house, i salient. Maybe the nationalist contingency should try painting a more positive picture of what being Cornish means.

Though ripping up TV licenses and going on week long fasts, or throwing protests where no one comes, won't really achieve that.

Dave the rave wrote:
Mike Chappell is welcome to employ only Cornish people, as it does not contravene any race relations act, as the Cornish are not a race.

So you think it is OK for MC to discriminate against those who have no ties with Cornwall, but for reasons best know to themselves they wish to live and work in Cornwall.

Maybe the nationalist contingency should try painting a more positive picture of what being Cornish means..........simple pride at not being English :)
And from what I see it is the Anglophiles who denigrate the youth,poor and down trodden here not the nationalists......though some do need a kick up the a**e for sure

"simple pride at not being English"

Or mockery of those that move to Cornwall to take advantage of a unique environment?

To: Equality & Human Rights Commission

Dear Sirs

Freedom of Information Request

Having been given to understand that a complaint has been lodged against me by an anonymous poster on a BBC 'blog' site wherein an allegation of racist or other comment is alleged against me and having established that the EHRC is an 'authority' under the Freedom of Information Act, I request and require to be informed of the full details of the individual lodging the complaint against me.

Yours faithfully

Michael J Chappell
Cornishman

Slimslad~Or mockery of those that move to Cornwall to take advantage of a unique environment?.......Not at all, the answer was personal to my own feeling of pride, and not at any particular people or persons, I have made clear (or I thought I did) I have no prejudice

Why is this Rialobran breaking the flow of the comments trying to mock true Cornish people from debating what really is the problem?

Slimslad could you please stop feeding him, it seems finally we are forming some form of consensus on the problems in Cornwall and using the forum for the use I believe it was intended.

We know RB is Welsh, extreme and came here after MC cried for help, the rest is 2+2.

Please ignore personal abuse and mocking. It’s all the nats know, lets see if we can understand how we "CORNISH" find ourselves where we do;

Just found this
https://mudhook.wordpress.com/category/work-employment-and-unemployment-in-cornwall/

TORY-LIBDEMS END HELP FOR YOUNG UNEMPLOYED IN CORNWALL

I am going to be controversial but as a project clearly it failed, I would love to know more details, no doubt and this is a guess they never helped people relocate to where the jobs were! Anyone except the attention seekers know more details I am investigating now

Mike Chappell
I request and require to be informed of the full details of the individual lodging the complaint against me.

I suppose you do Mike, (sorry I cannot help) but it shouldn’t take much stretch of the imagination what this complaint consists of, apart from blatantly advertising on the BBC that “In my business I employ only CORNISH people, in my properties I house only CORNISH people” if you still cannot see the era of your ways, it needs spelling out to you.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

"The 83 jobs in creative industries, citizen’s advice, environmental stewardship and other areas, will be available from October.
The positions will include 20 jobs at environmental company Rezolve, working in renewables and sustainability, and five jobs at the Eden Project."

The Eden project - Again
Rezolve Kernow Ltd - https://www.rezolve.org.uk (inc CORNISH REAL NAPPY PROJECT)

Everything I can find suggests you are correct Andrew, no real jobs. All seem PC motivated

Why is this Rialobran breaking the flow of the comments trying to mock true Cornish people.............We know RB is Welsh, extreme and came here after MC cried for help, the rest is 2+2.
You need a maths lesson mate, I was born in St Breward, educated in Callington, both places when last I saw Cameron and Clegg hadn't moved...... yet ,
Cornish and push me, extreme.

Andrew Jacks wrote:
Why is this Rialobran breaking the flow of the comments trying to mock true Cornish people from debating what really is the problem?

Until we know who the “true Cornish people” are, there will never be a satisfactory solution to this “problem” if there is a problem.

We know this much the Cornish are not a race of people, which is a good starting point.

Youngcornwall et al the Cornish people may not be a race but the 2010 equality act states any form of discrimination is illegal, for example it is illegal to say you will not house ugly people, it does not matter if we are unable to discover what an ugly person is. The fact you stated no ugly people makes it a crime.

You see we do not need to define what Cornish is, just be fair and equal, Good Luck Andy I have no time for ay form of bigots. The crime is not considering everyone.

Saltashgaz wrote:
You see we do not need to define what Cornish is,

You do if you are only going to house Cornish and give jobs only to the Cornish

“just be fair and equal”

Couldn’t agree more, I wonder what the Secretary of the Celtic League Mike Chappell would say if he knew people leaving the county of Cornwall to go to another area to work and live were faced with people like him, that refuse housing and jobs because they are not from that area.

Mr Chappell's Redruth Celtic League don't think about people outside their little world.
Supposedly, the Celtic League represent all the "Celts" in Europe and further afield.
Obviously not, if he will only employ the "Cornish", will only house the "Cornish".

A "stunt too far", perhaps?

Hold that thought YC let's examine. Do the Celtic league not claim to be an “oppressed Irish minority" living within Cornwall?

But members of this “oppressed Irish minority" only house and employee other members of this “oppressed Irish minority". Could we have the worlds first designer “oppressed Celtic minority", who can not define what constitutes membership to this “oppressed kernow minority" and seek international recognition by rejecting anyone that is not a member of this “oppressed duchy minority". Talk about, how to win friends and influence people

And they wonder why the majority laugh at them?

I hope it is just me that is unable to see how this designer oppressed minority fools few, at least they should be able to define what Cornish is and what constitutes membership.

No wonder we all prefer English