Sir Alex, caterpillars and Crocodile Dundee

Comparing managers is like comparing players of different eras. In the current game, he is a legend for the sustained level of success, the making and rebuilding of different sides, and the change he has brought to United and probably the game (not him alone, admittedly) as far as marketing and finance in football.

Is he the greatest? It depends on your criteria, but he's certainly completely one of a kind and his feats will unlikely ever be repeated.

Hi Dan

Through gritted teeth I do admire the job that Ferguson has done. In my opinion his success has come down to three things.

1. Man Utd's success at been way ahead of the rest at exploiting the commercial and money making opportunities that the Premier league created.

2. Fear. Creating an intimidation factor throughout the league. The only British manager who has stood up to Ferguson since the Premier League began has been Dalglish. Your Arry's, Allardyce's, Hodgsons, Bruce, Hughes etc, etc have always rolled over and let their tummies be tickled.

3. Evolving with the times. Ferguson has gone from the Iron man nobody would mess with (Stam, Ince, Beckham etc) to a manager who will indulge greed, poor behavior (Rooney) if he feels it's in the best interests of Man Utd.

He has gone from a manager who will always play attacking football (1999) in Europe to a manager who is quite happy to have his team sit back and go for a breakaway goal (recent European campaigns).

This constant ability to evolve and meet new challenges has to be admired.

Not one of your best Dan but what more can you really say, that hasn't already been said? However it was saved by the mention of The Caterpillar. Reminded me of a weekend away in Bournemouth some years ago. After a pretty heavy Saturday night we decided it would be a good idea to carry on at the local pub.

Having drunk several pints of of Reef (still alcoholic orange drink for those that don't know) and vodka my friend decided do The Caterpillar around the pub. Not sure what the locals made of it at 12pm on a Sunday lunch time.

"The only British manager who has stood up to Ferguson since the Premier League began has been Dalglish"

Mourinho and Wenger have also stood firm. But Sir Alex knows well the value to be gained in the fear factor. Any advantage you can gain is worth having.

He isn't the best tactically, and I suspect Mourinho will stand along side him when the final count is made.

Complain about this comment (Comment number 3)
Comment number 4.At 10:27 4th Nov 2011, GenesisRed wrote:
"The only British manager who has stood up to Ferguson since the Premier League began has been Dalglish"

Mourinho and Wenger have also stood firm. But Sir Alex knows well the value to be gained in the fear factor. Any advantage you can gain is worth having.

He isn't the best tactically, and I suspect Mourinho will stand along side him when the final count is made.

-----------------------------------

I would also add Ancelloti and Benitez to the list of standing firm. But my point was about British managers.

As for comparing managers, well that will open the can of worms! I think like comparing players of different generations it is an impossible task with no definitive answer!

Dan

How much of an old boys network exists within the football world you inhabit?

And while this may sound a bit meely mouthed, isn't it wonderful that such a collection of individuals were able to raise about a weeks Rooney salary with that auction. Golden handshakes all round!

I P Freely

|An outrageously expensive watch, a car, the chance to attend Cheltenham races with Sir Alex and arrive by helicopter, VIP tickets to every music festival for 12 months, a week's stay on a luxury yacht and the chance to be a mascot at Old Trafford were all on offer.


In total, the night raised £220,000 for the Elizabeth Hardie Ferguson Charitable Trust Fund."


Get back and finished what you started! 220k is a disgrace

The greatest manager the game has seen and will ever see. Someone like Mourinho may eventually surpass his trophy haul, but it won't be with the same club.

GenesisRed and JamTay1 are you actually serious??? Any FOOTBALL fan can see that Fergie has been the best manager the PL has ever had and to compare him with the likes of Mourinho, Ancelloti and Benitez is a joke!!! They last how long the PL and won how many cups between them? You need to have a reality check and accept that even the biggest hater of Man U can see that Fergie is a class above any other manager that has graced the PL!!

"And while this may sound a bit meely mouthed, isn't it wonderful that such a collection of individuals were able to raise about a weeks Rooney salary with that auction."

It does put things into context, and it's a shame there aren't more (obvious?) examples like Assou Ekotto.

Still, its a good amount of money in the world of charities

Ferguson - the greatest British manager of all time period. How much longer can he go on for? It will be nice when he finally calls it a day - might give the rest of us a chance of winning something.

Quite rich of Mauroshampoo in post 3 to critise the quality of Dan's blog and then follow that up with an utterly pointless story devoid of any humor.

"That's not a knife... this is a knife" is from Crocodile Dundee 2.

@12 no its not, its from the first film.

#10 GenesisRed

It does put things into context, and it's a shame there aren't more (obvious?) examples like Assou Ekotto.
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Don't geddit. What's he been up to?

Actually it's from the first one. I'll get me coat.

fergie............FERGIEEEEEEE!! AAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! i luv him xxx

While I think deciding who the best manager ever is entirely a subjective decision, I would say he is up there. Certainly in the English game, I believe it's a toss up between him and Shankly and Worldwide he's in the top ten, if not the best.

Tommy Vercetti

All this user's posts have been removed.Why?

I don't need a gun I've got a donk.

What's a donk?

DONK!

Classic!

yes he did well in scotland, but i wonder what alex would have been if he had started like harry redknapp, would he have gone on to manage man utd?

also there is a strange rumour flying around that alex broke up liverpools domination but in the 4yrs proir to alex landing the job at utd lpoolwon 1 league title in4 yrs it went everton liverpool arsenal then leeds

also under todays chairmen would fergy have stayed in the job for the number of yrs it took to win a prize at utd?

however all said and done yes fergy is a class manager, but a manager who relys on huge spending, take away buys over 10mill and utd have a 1st divison team.but fergy has shownnover a long timewiththeright amount ofspending u can be succesful.welldone alex urthebest british manager of ur genration

@Mr Blue Burns, honestly, i couldn't say specifically, but he's a good charity supporting boy isn't he? Sure i heard something about that...

@20, i'm sensing a touch of bitterness there. Where he came from is kind of immaterial. He was a success with Aberdeen and he took on United with the ambition of breaking Liverpool's league dominance as far as record. Which he has now done.

He was fortunate to have the support of his chairman, just about. And he was fortunate at a key time. What he achieved since then is not fortune, however.

It just goes to show how stupid it can be for chairmen to have knee jerk reactions (see Tottenham with Jol, Chelsea with Mourinho, Arsenal currently with Wenger under pressure).

As far has him RELYING on huge spending, that's just sad. He brought success not by huge spending, but he built ON that success with spending for sure. He has spent the last 25 years merging young talents from the youth squad with purchased and often BARGAIN professionals.

Every team he has created, has had a core of youth talent. Only Arsenal at the top end can say the same, domestically.

#21 GenesisRed

It just goes to show how stupid it can be for chairmen to have knee jerk reactions (see Tottenham with Jol, Chelsea with Mourinho,
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Mourinho pretty much talked himself out of his job at Chelsea. His stroppy actions and petulant speeches pretty much made his position untenable.

That is not to say that Chelsea haven't made wrong managerial appointments, but, I don't actually think the record there is quite what people claim/make out/believe.

yes he did well in scotland, but i wonder what alex would have been if he had started like harry redknapp, would he have gone on to manage man utd?

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He started at East Stirling a club that are regularly anchored to the bottom of the bottom of the Scottish divisions. Rejected the job at Rangers (for reasons that wouldn't make pleasant reading in a family blog but can be summed up as 'his wife is Catholic') and after winning the ECWC and Super Cup with Aberdeen, by your logic he would have taken a job at Bournemouth?

What a perverse career trajectory you have in your mind.

@22

I would agree. I think Mourinho had had enough and just wanted out.
There was Abramovich spending millions on Ballack and Shevchenko.
And what does JM do? Signs Pizzaro, Sidwell and Ben Haim on Bosmans.

I think the final straw was JM claiming in an interview that Shevchenko was 4 th choice behind Drogba, Shevchenko and Kalou.

Abramovich knew then he was just taking the p**s.
I don't think there are any regrets though. From both sides.

@22, you're probably right, but he's still my favourite Chelsea manager (even though he broke our dominance) along with Ranieri, who was hugely unlucky.

He probably wanted out, since he's never going to spend a long time at a club till he's fullfilled his ambitions.

@24

*I meant "4 th choice behind Drogba, Pizzaro and Kalou"

You simply have to respect and admire what he has done, and that wasn't easy for me to say.

Why no pictures of the lovely Ms Jackson?

Linda Kozlowski

The last thing you want is your owner interfering with the football matters, and buying flagship players you don't need. It's bad enough when they're an "expert" director of football

#25 GenesisRed

I think Mourinho cares more for himself than for the club he is employed by.

He tried to show that things that went wrong were other people's fault, and not his won.

A case in point of his stroppyness was the match away to Liverpool in February 2007, Cech's comeback game.

With the main central defenders missing, Mourinho could and maybe should have seen what other defenders were at the club, dipped into the reserves maybe.

But no, he chose to play Ferreira and Essien then. In fairness, apart from the first ten minutes or so, we did alright. But, the damage had been done. https://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/6258681.stm

it's an interesting one, Mr BB, but do you really think he deliberately sabbotaged his own chances of winning the league out of spite?

#28 Dan Walker

I understand the point about footballers salaries but £220000 is still a vast amount of cash to raise in 45 minutes.
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Come on Dan. Sure, as an absolute amount, it's a lot better than nothing and it will do someone some good no doubt.

However, this sort of auction is all a bit hooray henry and does little more than appease the consciences of those that are sitting around stuffing themselves with fine food and drink whilst patting themselves on the back.

Seymour Butts

@20. "huge spending, take away buys over 10mill and utd have a 1st divison team"

Apply that too Man City and where would they be then? Conference?

#31 GenesisRed

What I am saying is that the writing was starting to appear on the wall. From memory, there had been talk that Mourinho was less than happy with the funds, or lack of, that he had been given in the January window that year. Thus, to prove the point, he tried to demonstrate that without money he could not play a proper team.

His CV had already been boosted by what he had done at Chelsea and he was probably safe in the knowledge that he could get a job elsewhere and blame Abramovich for him leaving.

Do you think I'm that far off the mark in my analysis?

Mister Blue Burns

I normally agree with you on most things but not this time regarding the money raised. 220k in 45 mins for a limited amount of "luxury" items imho is pretty good. As I understand it the watch only went for 4k so the rest getting 216k.

I understand your point regarding footballers outrageous dosh but don't consider it exactly relevant here.

Fergusons European record over the last couple of decades has been mediocre, United have been knocked out of the Champions League at the semi final stage by the likes of Monaco, Bayer Leverkusen and Dortmund. He is the 1st British manager to lose 2 Champions League Finals. I believe he is only hanging around, in a desperate attempt to improve that record. The prospects of that happening are increasingly slim.

#35 Andy

See the second paragraph at #32.

@20

Can you make a valid and correct point? This is about Fergie's 25th year in charge, if you even read the article it states he started in 1986. Your point about Liverpool not being on their perch is rubbish, granted he didn't win his first title until 92-93 which is the timeframe you're referring too. But prior to Fergie's arrival Liverpool had won the league 4 out of the past 5 years.

This whole take away buys over ten million thing? Maybe arsenal would have won a title, but they wouldn't have had Henry off the top of my head. Certainly Chelsea wouldn't have won one. I think only Barcelona due to there youth system may have won the league, and they have spent big on Villa/Fabregas/Sanchez/Ronaldinho in recent years.

36 Maxmerit

Mediocre results in European competition. Are you having a joke?

Name me the teams that have progressed as far in all the seasons since the CL started.

Also losing two finals to Barca, probably the best team in the world for the last few years is hardly mediocre.

Fergie is a legend which ever way you look at it.

However, deep down he knows he needs one more European crown to put unquestionably amongst the greatest of all time.

..........and once sold a wicker dog for £1.50.

Robbie Savage only managed to fetch £1.50?

Having drunk several pints of of Reef

NO REAL MAN drinks Reef!

everyone knows its for girls!

oh and fergie has done well, pass him my best wishes.

Naboo

Lol Tevez could raise more by refusing to play.

@36 maxplus

I remember Leverkusen in 2002. I also remember Dortmund in 1997.
But when did Monaco knock Utd out of the champs league at the semi final stage?

Not another ABU trying to re-write history in and attempt to belittle SAF's achievements, are you?

Johns the que behind Soul_, nibs and a whole host of Scousers.

Next?

#39 Andy

I think it's a fair point to question Man U's record in Europe over his tenure.

If the self styled biggest and richest club in the world has been in the tournament every year, isn't two Champions League titles, both of which had more than a hint of good fortune about them merely acceptable?

#37 MrBB

I get your point about who was in attendance of course. Who else could afford to go?

My point was more on the amount raised and the relation to footballers income.

#42 United Dreamer

Lol Tevez could raise more by refusing to play.
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Exactly.

If Man U's wage bill is currently about £130m, then just what the squad earned that day is £357k.

As I say, as an absolute figure, £220k is good. In the context of the wealth of those attending, it's probably on the lower side of pathetic. That wouldn't matter (it's not for me to say how people should spend their money) except that the article seeks to make this 'amount raised' to something quite virtuous and generous.

Mike Hunt

#44 MrBB

I agree we should have done better within the time frame. And it pains me to say it but luck has certainly played a role in both wins, tenacity also I think.

My reference was the amount of times we have been there or thereaabouts in pretty well every season of the CL. I can't state it as fact but I don't thik any other team has achieved that.

#20 "however all said and done yes fergy is a class manager, but a manager who relys on huge spending"

Rubbish.

#34 Mr BB - if there's one thing SAF has proven, it is that you can only have one boss at a club and he's peed off a number of chairmen and owners in his time. Abramovich in my opinion has been both a constructive (money-wise) and divisive (to involved in the football side of things) influence. I mean who wouldn't be a bit narked at having 30 million of your transfer fee wasted on a former great's swansong?

#36 Maxmerit - no lol

Fergie has been consistently outwitted by European coaches of inferior teams in Europe over the years, for all his success domestically, when it comes to the business end of the Champions League his shortcomings are highlighted.

Anyway, when are the bankers going to have a fund raiser and raise 500 billion?

#48 United Dreamer

You might be right on the transfer fund. But, his rather public protestations did not help. Such issues are best dealt with in house aren't they? Anyway, we don't (never will?) know what was promised to him at every juncture so we don't know if either party didn't hold their side of a bargain.

#49 No MaxMerit - a tough domestic league is what has made achieving in Europe a tough proposition. The only other premiership side to have won the champions league basically gave up the permiership as a lost cause that season. United fight on all fronts.

23.At 11:53 4th Nov 2011, Strange_UBoat wrote:
yes he did well in scotland, but i wonder what alex would have been if he had started like harry redknapp, would he have gone on to manage man utd?

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He started at East Stirling a club that are regularly anchored to the bottom of the bottom of the Scottish divisions. Rejected the job at Rangers (for reasons that wouldn't make pleasant reading in a family blog but can be summed up as 'his wife is Catholic') and after winning the ECWC and Super Cup with Aberdeen, by your logic he would have taken a job at Bournemouth?

What a perverse career trajectory you have in your mind.

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my point was managing in scotland is far easyier, yes he did well at aberdeen,butby the same token dundee utd won the scotich prem in 1982-83 with then the record points ever! they also made the euro semi final. and in 1986 they got to the final of the uefa cup, so rangers and celtic werent the force they were in early80's,so to talkof fergy breaking up rangers and celtic dominace is also a lil off the mark to dundee utd manager at the time was Jim McLean . not someone well remembered was heon grand scheme of things. my point was if alex started in a english club 80 places down the leagues would he have done so well? and bitter umm no lpool as a force were over by 1990. fergy or no fergy lpool caused there own downfall


and im correct about people claiming ferrgy stopped the lpool train.read mcnultys coluims.lpoolcaused own downfall

@ 32 Mr Blue Burns - You seem a bit cynical towards the 'generosity' so you may like like this!

There were 600 people in the room.
Lets assume 2/3 of these were footballers/managers
Lets also assume they are on £100,000 per week salaries (probably a bit high as an average but bear with me).

So 400 x 100,000 = £40 million per week in wages.
Divide this by 7 (days) equals approximately £5.7 million.
Divide this by 24 (hours) = approximately £230,000 per hour. (Remember this figure)

Now lets assume that the other 200 people were on an average wage of about £500 per week (almost certain this is a bit low but bear with me!)
So 200 x £500 = £100,000.
Divide this by 7 (days) equals approximately £14,300
Divide this by 24 (hours) = approximately £600 per hour.

So add £230,000 to £600 = £230,600.

So if we say they were there for an hour (including hello's and goodbyes!)then the combined 600 people only 'earned' £10,000 more (as a group) during this hour than they 'generously' donated!

MrBB I just think it was a clash of egos and that doesn't help a club succeed. It needs to be the manager who gets the last say. But all things being equal, who would you have as manager at Chelsea?

Mr BB, you may be right. I love a good consipiracy (for example, i believe Soul_Patch to be a BBC operative) and i don't doubt he had a look what he could get on the free transfer market to make a point.

But hopefully (hmmm) he is bigger than playing with people's careers just to get back at the guy who pays his wages...

No, on reflection, you're probably bang on the money!

#36 - I think Monaco knocked Chelsea out in the semis in 2004, while Porto knocked United out in the quarters - both of which contributed to the Tinkerman getting the bullet and Jose taking over.
It must be said though, that United have competed in the CL every year for just under 20 years. I'm sure Ferguson himself would be the first to admit that they should have won it more than twice.

#56 GenesisRed

But hopefully (hmmm) he is bigger than playing with people's careers just to get back at the guy who pays his wages...
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Nope, don't think he is. He just thinks of himself I would say.

Ask the Porto fans? Ask the Inter fans? He feathers his nest, get what he wants and then he's offski!

Firstly SAF is a legend. Whether he is the greatest manager ever is open to debate, but no-one can pour scorn over 27 trophies in 25 years.

Regarding his transfer history, remember the likes of Irwin and Schmeichel were so cheap even Fergie admitted being embarrassed regarding what United paid for them. Keane was a record transfer at the time (£3.5 mill) but he was soon surrounded by Giggs, Scholes, Butt, Beckham and The Nevilles who were all brought through the ranks for free.

A combination of this nuturing of young talent and undoubtably making the most of Premiership TV revenues helped make United into the force they are now. This option was there for all the big clubs, but SAF and the United board ensured they made the most of it.

Since then, of course they've spent big, pretty much every Premiership club with top-half aspirations has at least one big-money signing, as this is the way football has gone. Yet all the spending is carefully managed, with players shipped out regularly if SAF sees fit. To suggest United have ever 'bought' their success is wide of the mark.

@ JamTay1

"The only British manager who has stood up to Ferguson since the Premier League began has been Dalglish."

What about Benitez and his "facts?" Truly fearsome and did his team wonders too.

In my opinion Fergie is that he is the greatest in my lifetime (26 years), but it's very difficult to compare different eras.

my point was managing in scotland is far easyier, yes he did well at aberdeen,butby the same token dundee utd won the scotich prem in 1982-83 with then the record points ever! they also made the euro semi final. and in 1986 they got to the final of the uefa cup, so rangers and celtic werent the force they were in early80's,so to talkof fergy breaking up rangers and celtic dominace is also a lil off the mark to dundee utd manager at the time was Jim McLean . not someone well remembered was heon grand scheme of things. my point was if alex started in a english club 80 places down the leagues would he have done so well? and bitter umm no lpool as a force were over by 1990. fergy or no fergy lpool caused there own downfall
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You are right about 'wee Jum': a vastly under-rated manager but NOT in Scotland. Both Fergie and McLean broke the OF in their own right and become for a short spell the 'New Firm'.

Since '1893' to the present day only 17 non-OF teams have won the Scottish Championship. Against this backdrop, how difficult would you say it was to guide Aberdeen to 3 championships? The Dons had only 1 league title (1955) in their entire history prior to Fergie. Like McLean, he was the exception to the rule. And while Rangers were having managerial issues during this period, Celtic were not weak domestically at all.

I think you give very little credit to Fergie and Jim McLean by your arguement.

And your point makes no sense whatsoever unless you believe that going to ManU somehow did not reflect his ability with Aberdeen. Aberdeen won a ECWC beating Real Madrid and a Super Cup beating Hamburg. The relative strength of the OF is irrelevant and how easy you think managing in Scotland is also irrelevant aginst this backdrop.

But please feel free to come back and argue that Bournemouth would have been a better test compared to what he already faced in Scotland and that he sghould have started here or in Torquay!

Ferguson has done well to survive the slings and arrows of (outrageous) fortune over the years - certainly in his early times before he won his first trophy. He's also done not dissimilarly with knowing when to sell players as Wenger. There aren't too many United (or Arsenal) players who have gone onto better things after leaving.

I think United are going to feel the pressure from City if City can continue to pile up the wins. It only needs United to trip up a couple of times in the next few matches, and City's lead could move close to double figures. I bet he's wishing he'd been able to get his hands on David Silva! He must be potentially the most influential player in any of the top teams, and I would suggest is perhaps the best.

What sort of questions did you ask Ferguson, and what sort of responses did you receive?

Ian Fleming

All this hero/legend worshipping from football pundits makes me sick. Ferguson has been a successful manager end of. He might have many qualities but he lives in a parallel world to all of us (see money) and he's full of faults. Not least his tactical weakness. I don't find him remotely entertaining and in that sense he can't hold a candle to Clough or Mourinho or Mick McCarthy.
And I do think that he has undue influence over many aspects of the game and in that sense I think the Queen should have waited for him to retire before she knighted him. No one dare speak against Sir Alex Ferguson.

#53 Andy - when Aberdeen won the European Cup Winners cup they did so beating Real Madrid and Bayern Munich on the way.

Regarding the £220k - it's £220k the charity didn't have before.

The 25 years focuses on his achievements at United - which are seismic.

Equally seismic was his disruption of the Old Firm before that.

A success both sides of the border.

Look upon his works ye mighty and despair.

Hugh Jorgen

I'm not a United fan by any stretch of the imagination but the Fergie is a don, as heresay said "pure and simple"

And for the United fan who didn't know about Monaco they beat you in 98 I think on away goals.

Porto also beat you in the 2nd round in 04 not the quarters.

Its the poor knowledge of things like that that winds real fans of other teams up

Well said about Jim McLean Strange_Uboat. Dundee United were also a formidable outfit for the resources they had at hand. I recall a 5-1 (or 5-0) away victory against Borussia Munchengladbach when 3-1 down from the first leg. They also reached the UEFA cup final in 87.

#66 Porto beat us in the first knock-out round. So because some United fans get the odd fact wrong it winds "real" fans up? Thicker skin might be required lol;)

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

Dan. Something to tell your Grandchildren, that you interviewed the greatest british manager ever, on the occasion of his 25th Year as manager of ther greatest football club in the world...........does'nt get much better than that mate!

Sorry to break up the love in but for me Fergie's in the same category as Maradona, great BUT ...
When I think of Fergie I think of him on the touchline pointing at his wrist and Keane and co. surrounding and harassing the referee. This was at the same time as Fergie started talking about the refs in his pre-match interviews. This was a new phenomenon, pressurising the referee as a strategy and putting the official in the spotlight. One penalty against Man U at Old Trafford in 10 years or whatever that crazy stat was shows it worked but it's basically cheating and certainly way outside the spirit of the game.
In the long run potentially good referees who didn't want the spotlight have been discouraged from the game while limelight loving ego-refs have appeared in droves, and discretion has almost disappeared from top level refereeing.
If you think winning at any cost is OK then Fergie is blameless, if you think sport is about more than that and should have some values beyond capitalist greed then this Govan socialist has a few questions to answer. Fantastic football manager though.

#70 - Don't think Dan mentioned Liverpool once!

Mike Hunt (No46) its a sore point you raise - for such a rich bunch they should be far more generous... Given Rooney will allegedley spend £2-3K for a night with a prossie!! Speaks for itself doesn't it?

Tommy Tank

QUESTION FOR STEVE McLAREN
Hi Steve,
I met u while u were at Wolfsburg. Thanks for taking the time to meet with me and allow me to observe trainings........ " How much do u model your coaching style on Fergie?" ............Cheers, Gareth O'Sullivan (Coach in USA / formerly Iceland)

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

Hi;

I would like you to ask the great man how he got on with a manager who we at Forest reveered! I accept that Brian Clough Is a peice behind Sir Alex In the who was the greatest - but after the matches that we had with United, I'm sure they would have had a drink together? (well they did both like a tot or two) how did Alex find the inigma that was Cloughie?

Brian does mention Sir Alex In his book & said that he liked him, we had some great games against man U & we both tanked each other good! did he feel like most that Cloughie would have made a good job of "England"? bearing In mind what he did with what were relative miss-fits & bad boy's! Regards to you Alex youve been a stalwart to the game! Mick

Can you make a valid and correct point? This is about Fergie's 25th year in charge, if you even read the article it states he started in 1986. Your point about Liverpool not being on their perch is rubbish, granted he didn't win his first title until 92-93 which is the timeframe you're referring too. But prior to Fergie's arrival Liverpool had won the league 4 out of the past 5 years.

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maybe u sud make a point, altough u make my point,lpool were over as a force by the time fergy made man utd into aforce. my point if u read it was alot of people credit fergy with 2 things

1- ending liverpool reign, LEAGUE WINNERS AND RUNNERS UP FROM 1987

1987 EVERTON -LIVERPOOL
1988 LIVERPOOL-MAN UTD
1989 ARSENAL -LIVERPOOL
1990 LIVERPOOL- ASTON VILLA
1991 ARSENAL-LIVERPOOL
1992 LEEDS -MAN UTD
1993MAN UTD -VILLA (SO IN 5 SEASONS LIVERPOOL WON THE LEAGUE ONCE, HARDLY FERGY DIS-LODGED LPOOL (agree they nowwon more titles but arsenal sud be given the real credit

point 2
fergy brokeup rangers and celtics domination of scotich league, when dundee utd did it (before replying lookupthe facts

2-AND

At 13:56 4th Nov 2011, Strange_UBoat wrote:

how u come to say i dont rate what mclean did is strange since im only one to even mention him!!!!my point is other then fergy what other manager ofascotich team done well this side of border .seems history has taught us this. souness and strachen come to mind. besides my point was its harder to get noticed out of 92 teams then around 30 odd hence scotlands leagues and english leagues. no one saidfergy was poor manager the oppersite. my point was only get the facts right. and by suggesting as it was, that fergy single handedly broke up rangers and celtics grip on scotish football was tosh as was that he broke upl iverpools reign who won the league once including the yr man utd first won the league in 5

Why does anyone try to belittle a talent such as Fergie?

Undoubtably great... end of!

#78

I'll say it slowly to help you understand: winning a ECWC and Super Cup with a Scottish provincial club would have got him noticed anywhere at anytime in any league by anyone.

Try not to give lessons in history before you can master logic.

In reference to post #23, if indeed there were sectarian factors surrounding Sir Alex Ferguson's refusal to manage Glasgow Rangers, then why did the man himself, deny this in his autobiography?

I've followed English football as much as Scottish football ever since my obsession began. I never particularly supported an English team or kept an eye on one specific team but over the years I have grown a likeness for Manchester United, simply because my respect and admiration for Alex Ferguson continues to increase.

There are many managers you can compare Ferguson to and there will be good debates about who has been most successful. But for the amount of success that he has had, spanned throughout such a long career, I cannot come to any other conclusion other than Ferguson is the best British manager to date.

#78
other then fergy what other manager ofascotich team done well this side of border .seems history has taught us this
---------------------
Scots managers have done very well it seems this side of the border and in England too.

Here are a few current examples Andy off the top of my head

Paul Lambert - started with Livingston
Owen Coyle -started with St Johnstone
Alex McLeish - started with Motherwell
Billy Davies - Started with Motherwell

And here are a few questions for you since you are so 'nationally' inclined:

When will an English manager next win the EPL?

Can't remember the last one to do so Andy but with your knowledge of history I'm sure you can fill it in for me!!

Where have the English managers gone Andy?

Why do your big clubs, apart from Spurs, not employ them?

HE IS THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME period!

#81
The issue of sectarianism at Rangers (and his wife being a Catholic) was mentioned in his book and the issue of the rejecting the appointment at Rangers (and this culture) was discussed in interviews in the Scottish press.

At 18:06 4th Nov 2011, Strange_UBoat wrote:
#78
other then fergy what other manager ofascotich team done well this side of border .seems history has taught us this
---------------------
Scots managers have done very well it seems this side of the border and in England too.

Here are a few current examples Andy off the top of my head

Paul Lambert - started with Livingston
Owen Coyle -started with St Johnstone
Alex McLeish - started with Motherwell
Billy Davies - Started with Motherwell

And here are a few questions for you since you are so 'nationally' inclined:

When will an English manager next win the EPL?

Can't remember the last one to do so Andy but with your knowledge of history I'm sure you can fill it in for me!!

Where have the English managers gone Andy?


------------
again u missed my point. scotish managers who have won things in scotland other then fergy what have they won this side of border?u seem to twist things.never once did i argue english managers were better! did i? didnt even mentionany english manager or suggest they were better. its just a fact managers who've won cups/titles in scotland come to england and win! plz inform me otherwise over last 30yrs plz kenny cup at celtic dosent count

Still laughing about what your point might be, it changes so much.

Didn't Alex McLeish win the Carling Cup with Brum last year Andy?

Is your historical expertise contemporary or in the medeival period?

yeah a cup that most teams are embrrrased about winning

didnt he take down an established premier league team despite winning titles in scotland. champ of scotland offered middle rate prem job...and f***them up-- great manager huh

goodnight uboat

win scotish title with top club

then manager nbational team

your reward ---------birm city says it all/thanks for playing goodnight

Prejudice is usally strongly correlated with lower intelligence Andy.

Thank you for confirming through your posts that you have a poverty of education.

Don't thank me its been a pleasure to mock you

Minter

u mocked no-one but urself


i asked u to name a top scottish managerother then fergy who won titles in scotland then done well in england ---ur answer alex mcleish (brillant)

Dementia?

You asked me this:

"other then fergy what other manager ofascotich team done well this side of border .seems history has taught us this"

How many more times must you embarrass yourself? Your parents must be so proud.

Even I'm cringing for you!!!

Not really, I'm too busy laughing

I think what gets overlooked a lot is that Sir Alex did an incredible job at Aberdeen prior to coming to United. To think that a team like Aberdeen won the Cup Winners' Cup against Real Madrid in the final and beat Bayern Munich along the way is unbelievable. He won ten trophies there in his time and since he left, Aberdeen have never been the same. I know that many will believe that the Scottish league is poor, and I would agree that it has gone downhill, but it was a very good league in those days where the top teams could compete strongly against any in England.

I think that his achievements in Scotland are just as incredible as his achievements with United.

The BBC is going a bit over the top with the Ferguson praise isn't it? The BBC sports pages has virtually been devoted to the wonders of Ferguson on his 25 years in charge of Manchester United. One wonders whether it's a form of 'thank you' to him for ending his boycott!

Taxi for Andy.

I don't really understand your point (although it does seem to change with each post) - of course managers who come from Scotland now are not going to be given the top jobs in England, the quality and competiton between the two are planets apart. This is highlighted by managers that have won the title in Scotland accepting job offers from the lower section of the Premier League (Birmingham). I don't think Alex Mcleish should be ashamed of what happened at Birmingham in the slightest, after taking them back into the premiership they finished 9th - their highest finish in the top tier of football for 51 years. He also won the league cup - which gained them European quaification. Afterall, he did get the Villa job at the end of the season, which in my opinion is a much bigger club.

yes in fergy is being blown over the bbc pages. his charater is questionable, his sportmanship is up for debate. and if wasnt for mark robins fergy wudhave been forgotton. how many managers with a bit more luck cud have had same success, we willnever know

Another Ferguson-related debate? Boring!

Greatest manager of all time? I believe the criteria has to be established before anyone can take that accolade.

Number of trophies won, creating successful new teams, longevity the list is endless. Sir Alex would be very near or at the top in most of the standards set for judgement but there are also other factors.

Innovation is one, Bobby Robson introducing the Dutchmen to our game at an unfashionable club, long before others bought in the stars from abroad. Also taking England to a WC semi which we were unfortunate to lose. What about Sir Alf not only winning a World Cup but winning the title with Ipswich. Now that did not seem possible even back then, especially when they were odds on favourites to be relegated that season, the press had written them off before a ball was kicked. Cloughie a magnificent achievement with two unfashionable sides. Paisley, Shankly both magnificent for various reasons and Billy Nic at Spurs, the first to do the double in the 20th century and the first English club to win a European trophy.

Some great managers there for different reasons. Personally I do believe Fergie is obviously up there with the all time greats but it is extremely difficult to pick just one because each had an entirely different impact on English football.

There is one certainty about great players or managers, you miss them when they are gone.

From the Simpsons Australian episode...

'That's not a knife that's a spoon'

'Ahh I see you've played knifey spoony before'

Classic

Re the blog... He came he saw he conquered. The best bar none, we will never see the like again. Arise Lord Ferguson

jeez, alot of these posts should be on mcnultys ferguson blog,

220k for charity is still not to be sniffed at, when you consider they were probably bidding on things they dont want (which footballer really needs a 4 grand watch, they've already got one you see)

and aren't caterpillars fascinating, only last night on frozen planet i was learning more about them

Malcom Sargeant

Fergie's got one already, but as it was 10 years ago I am sure Auntie Beeb can make an exception. Let's face it, Auntie has moved to Manchester (sorry... Salford) and DW never fails to point out that "you can see Old Trafford over there." Sir AF has, with exquisite timing, started talking to Auntie again... and with the show being staged in Auntie's new front room, I can't help but wonder who is going to get the "Lifetime Achievement Award" at SPOTY this year. Kiss, Kiss, Num, Num.