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Tuesday, 25 June, 2002, 10:45 GMT 11:45 UK
Do you still have faith in the NHS?
Public confidence in the NHS has been compromised once again with the release of two alarming studies.

According to one survey of around 200 recently-qualified doctors, many do not know how to recognise the signs that a patient is critically ill.

The report highlights "significant gaps" in junior doctors' knowledge and understanding of basic life-supporting care.

The revelations came as a study of "adverse incidents" in NHS hospitals found that more than 24,500 incidents had occurred in 28 participating trusts over a six month period.

What is your reaction to these findings? Do you still have faith in the NHS?


This Talking Point has now closed. Read a selection of your comments below.

I have been severely injured in two road accidents. Once in 1964 and the other in 1972. My life was saved on both occasions by hospital doctors and nursing staff. I have continued to receive hospital treatment for the last 38 years. In the most part the medical profession are competent. However, I have noticed a decline is standards over the years. This is due to lack of funding and bad management rather than the competence of those who do the actual ward nursing. There has been a lack of funding for many years by all governments.

No one can deny that there are bad procedures and even less than competent medical staff. There are however, many who work hard and do long hours for little pay or gratitude. However, those who nursed me back to life will always have my gratitude for their dedication and professionalism. Thank you all.
Roy, UK

I have faith in the doctors and nurses, but no faith at all in the management or the government that funds the service.
Andy, UK


We don't administer lethal doses and miss important signs on purpose.

Junior Doctor, UK
In recent years it has been noticeable that doctors and nurses (perhaps more so the former) have been blamed for the failings of the NHS by its political masters. This report seems to be another chapter in this story. Is the government trying to pass the buck? Yes - we do make mistakes, but we are only human. We don't administer lethal doses and miss important signs on purpose. I understand this is not a 100% valid excuse, as our mistakes can be very serious indeed, but if anyone here can tell me a way to remove human error from the equation they are a better man than I.
Junior Doctor, UK

Having received treatment from and worked clinically in the NHS, I have seen each side of the situation. My experiences as a patient were both good and bad. As a staff member, they were challenging. Whilst we do live in a society where people are more informed, it is my experience that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. People are quick to criticise but generally offer very little detailed advice as to how things might be remedied. The NHS needs 21st Century modernisation through adequate and managed funding, the elimination of the 'vocational' attitude towards NHS careers and an enhanced local decision-making process to quickly make change for the better without bureaucracy.
Simon C Bridgwater, UK

In my experience nurses are invaluable in preventing junior doctors from making basic and dangerous mistakes. My son, who suffers from cancer, was once left on a treatment bed with an open drug line hanging from his vein by a junior doctor. He was saved by an attentive nurse who was first to notice the large puddle of blood spreading across the floor.
Allan , UK

I never lost faith in the NHS in the first place. It has been of great service to my family over the years, especially the excellent treatment my Grandad received during his 8 year fight against Cancer. The only problem with the NHS is that the media only prints the bad stories, giving the impression that it's all bad.
Graham Haywood, UK


Medical schools need to stop instilling into their students such arrogance.

Rebecca, UK
It doesn't surprise me one bit that junior doctors make so many mistakes. Undoubtedly there are many excellent doctors out there, but one thing that medical schools need to do is to stop instilling into their students such arrogance. If doctors weren't trained to think of themselves as almost god-like and superior to everyone else, then they would be more open to realising their limitations, asking for help when needed and less likely to make mistakes. Doctors are just people. They don't know everything about every medical condition and it's about time they realised it.
Rebecca, UK

My wife has now been unconscious for a week in a High Dependency Ward of a Birmingham hospital. I cannot praise too highly everyone involved in her care. Not only is there great competence and professionalism but a caring regard for the patient as a person. I have been greatly reassured that she is in good hands.
Geoff, UK

I recently had my first experience of the NHS following a cycling accident, and after years of hearing nothing but negative, destructive remarks about the health service, I was very pleasantly surprised and happy with the way and speed I was treated. I am not yet a taxpayer, but certainly won't mind contributing my bit in the future. Long live the NHS and all the values it embodies and promotes!
Shaun, UK

Could I quote from the National Patient Safety Agency document : "In many instances, the root causes of adverse patient incidents lie in the management and organisational systems that support the delivery of care, and blame cannot, and should not, be attributed to individual health care professionals."
Ian, UK


What the public and politicians do not seem to realise is that medicine is for the most part an inexact science

Claire
As a doctor I agree that there should be more accountability in order to correct mistakes. Changes are already taking place within the NHS in order to evaluate doctors' performance on a continuous basis. Mistakes do happen from time to time and unfortunately a small number are serious. However what the public and politicians do not seem to realise is that medicine is for the most part an inexact science and the phrase 'the art of medicine' was not coined for nothing. It is inevitable that a small number of patients may be given the wrong diagnosis or take time to be given the right diagnosis under these circumstances. Secondly, doctors have seen themselves consistently downgraded within the media which has resulted in an increase in complaints. I welcome the concept of addressing mistakes through learning rather than blame otherwise we will continue to lose doctors from the NHS who have become disillusioned by the attitude of the general public and politicians.
Claire

It is still a good system but we need to be on our guard. Cost cutting and privatising by stealth are undermining the motivation of the dedicated and committed staff who make it what it is.
Charles Moore, Scotland

I'd like to add the story of my recent experience to the many stories in the previous comments. Just over a year ago I was diagnosed at St. George's Hospital, Tooting, as having breast cancer. Just under five weeks later I had major surgery as a result. The surgeon did a fantastic job technically, as far as I can tell, and he and all those involved with my treatment were uniformly extremely kind, patient and supportive. Since then I have had chemotherapy, also at St. George's, and radiotherapy, at the Royal Marsden, and again I have been generally overwhelmed not only by the quality of the treatment but the kindness of all those involved. Granted, not everything was perfect, but they have all done wonders for my perception of the NHS at hospital level, of which I had virtually no previous experience. I am enormously grateful to them all.
Elizabeth, U.K.


I don't fancy playing russian roulette with my life

Scott Mackay, UK
As someone who had a parent that was in the NHS, working in operating theatres, for over 25 years, I have heard many of the near miss stories and mistakes that occur frequently. However these incidents were not restricted to junior doctors or trainees. Patients turning blue from the wrong anaesthetic or swabs being left inside patients after operations are not as uncommon as people think but are never reported. I for one would never trust my health to a service which has been run so poorly and inefficiently for so long, with tired, overworked and inexperienced staff. I don't fancy playing russian roulette with my life.
Scott Mackay, UK

The recent report has nothing to do with the reason why I do not trust the NHS. It is through personal experience - not least of which was sitting in casualty with a two year old girl with a badly broken arm for 10 hours because there was no surgery time available. This was without pain killers and with nothing to drink and included a trip by ambulance to the next nearest hospital as it was understood that they had available facilities (which they did not).
Jean, England

My baby daughter was diagnosed as having two congenital heart problems when she was three weeks old. She is now four months and has received pretty much continual care from Great Ormond Street Hospital (an NHS Trust). The standard of care has been exemplary, but the thing that really impressed was the way that all the doctors and nurses, no matter how senior, took the time to explain to us what was happening and to provide comfort and reassurance to us both. As we were in hospital for such a long time I paid note to reports in the media of hospital cock-ups, there was a story of this kind every day. The nurses that I spoke to found it demoralising that this sort of cheap political mileage is being extracted from the NHS daily, when 99% of the time everything runs smoothly. This unfortunately is not news!
Matt, UK

I totally trust the NHS. A recent article in a consumer magazine warned against the risk of having any serious treatment in a private hospital as their back-up was practically non-existent. My experience in my area is that attention is almost immediate and so is a bed if required. The service is first class. It's too easy for the media to pick isolated cases and use them as 'marketing headlines'.
Jack Oliver, England


I spent last year living in the USA and am overjoyed to be back in the hands of the NHS.

Ruth, UK
I spent last year living in the USA with my husband and baby son, and am overjoyed to be back in the UK and in the hands of the NHS. While - fortunately - I haven't had the opportunity to compare emergency medical care in the two countries, for the routine healthcare needs of a family, the UK system of GPs, health visitors and midwives can't be beaten. And I have to say that once the cost of medical insurance and paying per visit to the doctor is factored in as well as tax, we find the NHS a lot cheaper too.
Ruth, UK

I broke my shoulder blade in an RTA 18 months ago. I waited at the hospital for 8 hours before a doctor saw me. She prescribed a normal cloth sling, told me to take it off at night when I go to bed and to contact my local fracture clinic. I followed her advice, but when the fracture clinic told me the earliest they could see me was 4 days away I decided to seek some independent advice. I contacted a Bupa hospital, a doctor saw me within 40 minutes of phoning, he told me my shoulder needed to be immobilised and he had me fitted for the correct sling immediately. Had I carried on with the NHS style of treatment I am sure my shoulder would never have healed properly.
Russell Aisbitt, UK

Having been pulled off the road last year by an ambulance crew with a broken thigh bone (after being knocked off my bike) I have to say the treatment I received was first rate. For the 10 days I was in hospital I was looked after and kept informed about the operation to pin my leg. Within 2 hours of arriving in the hospital i was in traction and waiting for ward space. The staff are fantastic, and without their dedication to the job the NHS would have crumbled years ago. Isn't it about time we paid them more ?
David Smith, UK

The journalists keep running these negative stories regarding the NHS, and yet Doctors (especially GP's) are consistently at the top of the list of professionals that the public most trusts, with journalists, estate agents and politicians propping up the foot of the table. Is it professional jealousy that makes journalists behave in this way? Is it not about time they responded to public pressure and started looking at their own profession. The BBC could start the ball rolling.
Nasir Nabi, Newcastle, UK

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