THIS TRANSCRIPT IS ISSUED ON THE UNDERSTANDING THAT IT IS TAKEN FROM A LIVE PROGRAMME AS IT WAS BROADCAST. THE NATURE OF LIVE BROADCASTING MEANS THAT NEITHER THE BBC NOR THE PARTICIPANTS IN THE PROGRAMME CAN GUARANTEE THE ACCURACY OF THE INFORMATION PRINTED HERE.

MONEY BOX LIVE

Presenter: Paul Lewis

Guests: Vicky Pullman, Shirley Scott, Peter Gilheaney

TRANSMISSION 3rd DEC 2001 1500 - 1530 RADIO 4

ANNOUNCER : Now it's two minutes past three and time for MONEY BOX LIVE with Paul Lewis.

LEWIS: Hello. And today we answer your questions on giving to charity. Nearly half of us give money to charity at Christmas one way or another, but the chances are that you won't do it in the most efficient way. Just about any donation to charity can now get tax relief and that means that for every �1 you give the Chancellor adds 28 pence and if you're a higher rate tax payer you can claim back 23 pence yourself. So everyone wins. The Chancellor even said on Tuesday that gifts of foreign coins would attract tax relief in this way - though the detail is not quite that simple. Last week the Chancellor also promised to make it even easier to give to charity with a consultation on giving money directly on your tax form, though that won't happen for a while. He also said that sports clubs would now be able to get charitable status so they can boost their donations by 28 pence in the pound.

Maybe you want to know how to organise pay roll giving, giving through work - a very tax efficient way of giving money to charity. Maybe you want to talk about the amount donated in this way which was 55 million pounds last year though that's still barely one percent of all charitable giving. Whatever your questions about giving to charity you can call MONEY BOX LIVE now on 08700 100 444 And with me today to answer your questions are Peter Gilheaney from the Giving Campaign - a new initiative to encourage us to give more to charity - Vicky Pullman from the Charities Aid Foundation which has been encouraging charitable donations since l924, and Shirley Scott who's the director of the Charity Finance Director's Group, representing the people who run the finances of our biggest charities. And the first question is Harry from Creiff. Harry, your question?

HARRY: Yes, I'm a lower rate - lower rate of tax payer and I want to know if the amount I give via Gift Aid has a limit to it and say percentage of my total income?

LEWIS: Right, so you give money and you fill in the Gift Aid form so you - the charity recovers the tax on that. Vicky Chapman, is there a limit to this? Vicky Pullman sorry? - you're looking completely blank and it was entirely my fault. Vicky Pullman from Charities Aid Foundation - is there a limit to this?

PULLMAN: The rules of the new Gift Aid scheme are that you have to have paid an amount of income tax or capital gains tax I believe at least to have covered the amount that the charity gets back on your donation. I think Shirley can probably give you the exact figures.

LEWIS: Right, Shirley - Shirley Scott from the Charity Finance Director's Group?

SCOTT: Yes Harry. The point about this is that you must have paid to the Inland Revenue as much or more tax as the charity is trying to claim back on your donation. So, it doesn't matter what rate you pay the tax at it's the amount of tax you've paid that matters, so if you want to give a donation of �50 then you must have paid at least the tax equivalent to what you would have paid at standard rate on that.

LEWIS: So basically the limit for Harry's donations to count for Gift Aid is the amount of tax he's paid in the course of the tax year. Do you know how much that is Harry?

HARRY: Well I get a slip each year showing how much tax I've paid - I suppose I could count up as it goes along each month how much I've paid.

LEWIS: Yes, so you could safely give that much away but I must say if you're a lower rate tax payer you're being extremely generous which perhaps Peter Gilheaney is the way - the way things are that people who have less money tend to give more to charity than people who have a lot of money

GILHEANEY: Well I think the statistics show that people on lower incomes do give proportionately more of their income away, but with the new changes that came in last year certainly if you're a higher rate tax payer there's some personal benefit now to tax giving that charities are seeking to exploit as much as possible.

LEWIS: Indeed. Well may we'll come on to that later, but thanks very much for your call Harry and now our second call is from Ann from Crediton. Ann, your question for the panel?

ANN: Ah hello. We've been hearing a bit recently about the sort of amount of donation - percentage of donation that actually goes to the cause that one's supporting and the amount that actually tends to get used up in administration by the charity itself. I'm just wondering if there's a simple way - a particular question you can ask each charity or some sort of source of information for saying what percentage of the money that you're actually giving goes to the actual cause?

LEWIS: Yes, I see what you mean, though of course charities do have to have administrators to run them efficiently don't they and I think different charities have different expenses. Let me put that to Shirley Scott who is - represents the Charity Finances Directors - it's an old chestnut this one isn't it Shirley?

SCOTT: It is rather Paul though I think the difficulty because every charity approaches the way it sets about its task in a different way then they're going to have a different amount of overheads, staff and employment and so forth. It would be pointless for example to provide a charity which gives gifts to for supporting nurses if they didn't then have sufficient people in the office to make sure that the nurses were fully trained and had their equipment and so on, so it is rather difficult to give a simple answer - there's no ratio of gift to support costs although we do hope that we'll be able to work out a way to help charities explain and justify what they do spend on support costs so that then there will be a more simple answer to the query of the type you've just raised.

ANN: Aha - that kind of information isn't available at the moment in general?

SCOTT: It is available from the individual charity within their own annual report and accounts.

ANN: So one needs to look at the annual report and accounts or can one phone up and say I would like to know?

SCOTT: Yes you can phone up - they'll probably have an answer for you.

ANN: Lovely

LEWIS: And Vicky Pullman, just a comment on that - I mean it is difficult though isn't it. I mean one charity might spend 10%, one might spend 20%, but that still might be a reasonable proportion to spend on running the organisation, getting the money to where it belongs?

PULLMAN: Absolutely, and the points that Shirley makes are well made. I think the important thing is that the onus is really on the charity to be able to explain whatever their costs might be and really as donors we also have a responsibility to find out and to make sure that our money's being used effectively, so you know there's a duty all round.

LEWIS: And I think it's a good idea generally to give to charity any significant amounts - get the annual report anyway just to see what's going on. Thank you for your call anyway and let's move on now to Malcolm who's calling from Aberdeen. Malcolm, you've got a very general interesting question - what is it?

MALCOLM: Right, well the primary question is I sent a few cheques to charities recently to non profit organisations one of them, another known charities and the third category which is the interesting one is - is one that claimed to be of charitable status and said to me thank you for your cheque, but we're unable to claim Gift Aid on it so we won't send you a form and they didn't seem to know about the forms anyway. Now my feeling is they're very probably wrong there.

LEWIS: Okay, well let's talk about Gift Aid because it's not new but the way it works now has only been around for 18 months or so. Peter Gilheaney just explain what Gift Aid is and how it works?

GILHEANEY: Well Gift Aid is a chance for you to tell the Inland Revenue that you're making a donation to a registered or a recognised charity and to allow that charity or the cause you believe in to claim some of your tax back, so it's a chance for you to add value to the donation that you give.

LEWIS: So if you give �100 the charity gets �28 which confusingly is the tax you've already paid on that �100?

GILHEANEY: It is

LEWIS: We won't explain why but it is. So the charity - so basically the Chancellor gives �28 for every �100 you give which is obviously a good thing. Now you said registered or recognised - are you saying by that a charity doesn't have to be an official registered charity with a number?

GILHEANEY: They don't know - it can - most charities are registered with the Charity Commission in England and Wales - in Scotland it's - it's slightly different and then there are organisations that are recognised as charities or having charitable status. What they do have to be is they have to have an Inland Revenue reference number and they just apply for that very simply with the Inland Revenue.

LEWIS: So they write to the Revenue and say we do things that are non profit making that are generally good and charitable - can we have a reference number please?

GILHEANEY: There'll look for a reference number from the Inland Revenue and they will then - the Inland Revenue will then use that number when it comes to the Gift Aid declarations. In his case it sounds like they probably could certainly benefit from Gift Aid and it might be worth him pushing it with them and getting them to give their local Inland Revenue number a call.

LEWIS: Yes indeed, and just explain about higher rate tax because I give �100 - the Chancellor then eventually gives the charity another �28 making it up to what my gross income was to give that �100 and then if I pay higher rate tax I can also claim money back?

GILHEANEY: You'll get a personal tax benefit, so when it comes to filling out your tax return at the end of the financial year you can write down the charitable donations that you've made and have been gift aided or the total amount and then you can claim the difference between the higher rate and the standard rate of tax.

LEWIS: So that's 18% - and that's 18% of the grossed upper amount. I did some calculations earlier and it means if you want to give �100 net from your own income and you're a higher rate tax payer you have to write out a cheque for �130 - the Chancellor then makes that up to �167 and you claim �30 back so you're left paying �100. All very complicated but the charity gets an extra two thirds which - the arithmetic's quite extraordinary I think. Anyway thanks very much for your call Malcolm. Let's move on now to Alan from Norfolk. Alan your question?

ALAN: Oh yes, I'm interested to know if you're running a sponsored event on behalf of a recognised charity and you as an individual are seeking sponsors whether you can claim Gift Aid either through your individual sponsors or as a lump sum or what?

LEWIS: Well indeed you can - I know cos I've done this, given money in this way myself. Vicky Pullman explain what you have to do or what the charity has to do and what the individual has to do?

PULLMAN: The audit trail which is basically what you need in the case of all Gift Aid payments - in other words you need to know that every donation made has come from a tax payer so it's the sponsors, the people who are sponsoring you, you need to get from them confirmation that they pay the amount of UK tax that we talked about earlier. Once you have that then the money you pass on can have the tax reclaimed on it by the charity.

LEWIS: And Alan I understand you're doing the London Marathon next year is that right?

ALAN: No no actually I did the London Marathon another year - I'm doing something else next year.

LEWIS: Oh what are you doing next year?

ALAN: I'm walking part of the China - the Great Wall of China.

LEWIS: Goodness me - that's quite an event. I imagine that's been organised by a big charity though has it?

ALAN: Yes it's the Childrens' Society

LEWIS: Right, so they will probably have all the right forms, and I know that what you have to do now with sponsors is to get them to write their name and address down on the form and confirm they're a tax payer I think Vicky by putting a tick in a box is that right?

ALAN: Ah, now the current sponsor forms that I've got from the society just have a space for sum - a name and address.

LEWIS: Oh right - well just let me ask Shirley Scott. What should charities be doing at this stage for that kind of event?

SCOTT: Yes they should have an additional box or a separate form which the sponsor can indicate that they are a tax payer and sign the form.

ALAN: So the current form that I've got is probably not good enough?

SCOTT: No, you should ask the charity for just the wording to put at the top of a separate sheet.

LEWIS: And I suppose the advice to your sponsors is - if any of them do pay higher rate tax that they should keep a note of it so they can fill in the 10 quid on their tax return and get the money back and they can in fact give you a bit more and still only end up paying �10, so it's all hideously complicated but designed to get us to give more to charity. Thanks for your call - sorry Alan?

ALAN: If I've got say 300 individuals who've sponsored me I've got to have 300 declarations have I?

SCOTT: Afraid so

LEWIS: Yes

ALAN: Okay

LEWIS: Sorry Peter Gilheaney wants to come in here.

GILHEANEY: Can I just say that the word declaration and the words tax are difficult terms to deal with but a declaration can be oral or it can be simply ticking a box with your name and address so the idea of 300 you know vast reams of paper isn't actually the case - you just have a long list and get them ticked off as he goes.

LEWIS: Yes, the ones I've seen are just a list of sponsors which you have anyway and then there's a box to tick and you put your address and post code in there and then it's all clear and the Revenue's happy about it.

ALAN: Does it need a signature or just a name?

GILHEANEY: No it doesn't

LEWIS: It doesn't need a signature. Well good luck with your walk on the Great Wall of China Alan and let's move on now to Bill who's calling from London. Bill?

BILL: Oh hello. Like many people I've got various amounts of foreign coins from holidays in Europe over last decades and I'd like to get rid of those which are changing to Euros by giving them if I can do so efficiently and easily to some charity or charities. Is there some easy mechanism by which one can do this?

LEWIS: Well I know there are a number of banks who are offering these collections on behalf of charities. Now which of you knows most about this - who's - Vicky?

PULLMAN: There are a number of charities that are running appeals specifically for this in association with banks and building societies. The best thing really is to decide on a charity that you'd like to support in this way and contact them direct and as the Chancellor mentioned in his pre budget statement of course - this can be done tax effectively so again if you're a UK tax payer you can confirm with the charity and they can get the tax back on your gift.

LEWIS: And it's a bit complicated though isn't it because with coins and things you have to sort of put them in an envelope and write your name and address on or you can do that and then of course they have to be converted into pounds and then the Gift Aid is claimed on that. It's - Shirley it's a bit of - bit of a fuss really isn't it?

SCOTT: It is a bit of a fuss. We were hoping that we might have an acceptance that people who have these coins to spare would have paid tax on the money that they exchanged them in the first place.

LEWIS: Well there was that implication in the pre budget statement - a lot of people thought the Chancellor was just going to give an extra 28% on all these foreign coins but that's not true.

SCOTT: We'd have settled for 10% to be honest but

BILL: Was - with how to deal with the coins - could I just go into a suitable bank and?

SCOTT: Yes you can just drop them

LEWIS: I can tell you that Royal Bank of Scotland which includes Nat West and also the Co-op bank and Barclays Bank - they all will accept these coins.

BILL: Oh that's worth knowing.

LEWIS: They - I mean they each give them to different charities and I wouldn't - I mean that's the information we've got but I wouldn't be surprised if all the banks just about don't do this. Can I make one sort of slightly non - not very charitable suggestion though that if you're going to one of these countries before the end of February you can of course still spend the coins.

BILL: I'm not - my German friend is going home for Christmas so I'm giving her all my Deutsche marks.

LEWIS: Oh right, well that's a good idea - but also Shirley it applies to any foreign coins - it's not just the 12 Euro coins - I mean we all have bits and pieces of foreign coins lying around? - sorry Shirley?

SCOTT: Any foreign coins yes - the charities will be able to deal with them but the European ones of course we particularly want to dispose of.

LEWIS: Okay, well that's - that's that sorted, so if you've got any foreign coins charities are waiting. Thanks for your call Bill. Let's move on to Hampshire now where Doris is calling. Doris you have a question?

DORIS: Yes I have. I'm a little concerned. I saw a telephone number on the television to give to Afghanistan so I telephoned with my Visa card and gave my donation. About a fortnight later, in fact last week, I had another call come through --a lady announcing herself saying that she was from the charity concerned. Well as I thought I'd given enough in one way and another to charity this year I said well I'm sorry I'm not really interested and she said oh but I know that you are - you've already given some to Afghanistan and I'm telephoning to see if you can give some more?

LEWIS: Right, well I'm going to go straight to Shirley Scott - this is known as warm calling isn't it - as opposed to cold calling. I know that it produces results but some people really don't like it - defend yourself?

SCOTT: I'm not from the fund raising fraternity I hasten to say. No I think it is very true that charities do try to encourage people to give more because quite often people have said that if they were asked then they would give and they want to know that their original donation has gone somewhere worthwhile where it's being used properly. But the frustration of convincing people that you really can't give anymore - there's not much you can do except as you did say no thank you I can give no more.

DORIS: Well I did say to her I gave money for the Afghan refugees. I didn't give it to pay you a salary, the telephone call and if you're sending out any literature - literature - I used to have deed of covenance for Doctor Barnardos, RSBP and the PDSA, but because I got so much literature, I mean in two cases I got the catalogues for gifts at Christmas, I had three of each one year.

LEWIS: Right Doris, can I get some responses to that cos everyone's anxious to come in here. Peter Gilheaney, it is a concern isn't it? - people give money and then they see a proportion of it being spent on sending them more letters, ringing them up, sending them catalogues, magazines that they don't want - they want all their money to go to that cause?

GILHEANEY: I can absolutely completely understand the sentiment and of course you've already raised the point that from the charity's perspective they're interested in people becoming regular supporters which is why they try to set up a relationship with people who give money. Now what I would suggest for example - I'm going to give CAF a plug actually

LEWIS: That's Charities Aid Foundation?

GILHEANEY: Charities Aid Foundation

LEWIS: Your colleague on your left

GILHEANEY: Which is really - they - you can set up a CAF account and get a CAF cheque book from them, so that you can give tax effectively to any charity that you want but you can just simply write a cheque from a special cheque book and send it off to those that you're interested in rather than entering into a long term relationship with charities who write to you on a regular basis, and it's just a great way of doing it cos you have complete flexibility.

LEWIS: And then you don't get these - Vicky Pullman plug your own scheme - tell us about that scheme cos it does work I know - but well explain it first?

PULLMAN: It works exactly as Peter's explained it - the main thing about the account is that firstly it's tax effective so all your tax is reclaimed before you buy CAF and add it to your account.

LEWIS: So if you give �100 you are sent a sort of book of cheques if you like up to �128?

PULLMAN: Not quite - we add your money, your donation into the account - we'll add back the tax for you so we'll boost your donation and then you'll use your charity vouchers or your charity card in denominations of your choosing, whenever you choose. The beauty of the account of course is that although you can give tax effectively you can do it completely anonymously. We'll also verify the status of the charity receiving your donation to make sure that it's a bonafide charity. The other thing I would like to add though is that you can contact the telephone and mailing preference service if you don't want to be contacted by post or by telephone by charities or by any other commercial operation.

LEWIS: But will that even apply to warm calling when you've rung a charity and they ring you back - I'm not sure it does, does it?

PULLMAN: Data protection is - is quite fierce now - the laws regarding it are quite fierce, so if you're registered with the mailing - mailing and telephone preference service and you've specifically said you don't want to receive calls at home then the company has to adhere to that.

LEWIS: Right, well that's very use- very useful advice, though I have to ask you one thing on your service - even you do charge a small percentage to run that service don't you?

PULLMAN: We're an independent registered charity and yes, we do cover our administration costs.

LEWIS: So there is an overhead even on the charity account?

PULLMAN: There is a small contribution to our costs yes

LEWIS: Okay, sorry Peter you want to come back?

GILHEANEY: Can I just add that that's well covered by Gordon's donation should you go that route.

LEWIS: Yes he's a very generous man isn't he Gordon? - though I was reading some figures Vicky from your organisation this morning that we give anything up to 6 billion pounds to charities as individuals each year but only about a tenth of that is given tax effectively. Now if we could give it all tax effectively that would obviously be a huge boost for the charitable sector which is why we bang on about tax relief on this programme so much?

PULLMAN: It's why it's so important. If you consider 5 to 6 billion pounds each year to charities - it's a phenomenal amount but the potential with the tax back and I'm sure Peter probably has some forecast figures as well - could be terrific. And if everybody gave tax effectively then that would boost charities income phenomenally.

LEWIS: Right, we're going to go on to Colin now who actually has a similar point, but we'll see what he says. Colin from Watlington - what was your question?

COLIN: Ah hello

LEWIS: hello

COLIN: Thank you very much. Yes, well I've been using charity aid vouchers now for several years and my problem is that I do receive quite a number of repeated appeals from the charities that we support. Now I've no objection at all - I like to get an annual appeal from them with a bit of information, but is there any mechanism in which I can avoid getting repeated appeals without choking off the sort of annual appeal from people ? Also I'd like to completely eliminate telephone appeals which I never respond to.

LEWIS: Right, well let me ask Vicky - does this come back to this service that you - perhaps you should say a bit more about this mailing and telephone preference service. Who runs it and how do you get in touch with them?

PULLMAN: I don't have any details on me I'm afraid - but basically just a service by which your details are entered on to a central database and any organisation that contacts you by post or by telephone is duty bound to use that database and they have to protect the data that's on that, so if your name and details are registered then they can't by law contact you. So it's quite a useful service to use. The other thing about the Charities Aid Foundation - giving through CAF is that you can do it anonymously and although that does mean you wouldn't get any appeals back it would significantly cut down on the appeals that you get. And further, it's certainly worth contacting the charities themselves and saying that you only want to receive the minimum amount of information and again they want to look after their donors so I'm sure in most cases they'll want to apply - apply that to you.

LEWIS: Right, Shirley Scott can I just ask you this straight question - people do complain about all this material. Is it really - does every charity make sure that what it spends on these things is cost effective? - in other words although it annoys some people it does bring money in from enough other people to be worthwhile?

SCOTT: Yes they're keeping a lot of statistics these days to make sure that the costs of an appeal brings a decent rate of return. I think the main issue is they don't have quite enough categories of donor because I too suffer from being sent all sorts of mailings and I promised a legacy to somebody and I keep getting a Christmas card which I'm sure is to test if I'm dead yet.

LEWIS: When it's sent back unopened they'll ask for their money. Okay because of course legacies are a very important part aren't they of charitable money. Let's move on now to Heather who's calling us from Cobham. Heather?

HEATHER: Hello

LEWIS: Hello, your question?

HEATHER: My question is I want to know how I can most efficiently give money to my dedicated charity. I run my own limited company and at the moment I pay out of my personal income which has been subject to tax - income tax and national insurance contributions as an employee and an employer, and I'm wondering would it be more efficient for me to pay through my company or are there any other options which I haven't thought of?

LEWIS: Shirley, I think it's - you're being elected by your colleagues again to answer on this one. It is a bit complicated cos we've talked about Gift Aid and the value of giving money if you're individual money, but of course Heather's point is that it would be better to give it right perhaps further back at source from the company?

SCOTT: Yes I think giving by companies is a bit complicated but fundamentally you should be able to give from your company - pre tax profit and donate that to the charity of your choice and similarly you could set yourself up to give pay roll giving which means that from your own rewards from your company then you would be able to pay on pay roll to the charity on a gross basis and the charity would obtain the tax that you would have paid.

LEWIS: And does the government still boost the money that's paid through pay roll giving?

SCOTT: Yes they're putting anything you give through pay roll giving the government's giving an extra 10% between now and April 2003 so that's very rewarding and of course if you're a higher rate tax payer then you will get the extra back from your own tax assessment.

LEWIS: Peter you wanted to add something?

GILHEANEY: I just wanted to add that you may well be the type of person - I don't like to pre judge Heather, but you maybe a shareholder?

HEATHER: Yes I am and I'm a higher rate payer which is what I'm looking at as my particular situation.

GILHEANEY: Well that's - giving of shares to charity is an area that was also given a boost by last year's budget and it's now been expanded to the type of shares that you give and you can claim personal tax relief on the giving of shares so the benefit actually goes back to you both on your higher rate income tax and any capital gains tax that might have accrued on what you give. So that might be from a personal perspective the best way for you to give to a particular charity, but the most important thing is to give it in as many ways as possible.

LEWIS: Shirley?

SCOTT: Can I just check - do they still have to be listed shares Peter? - I know they were originally?

GILHEANEY: They still have to be listed and the list of the shares - the exchanges that they can be listed on is on the Inland Revenue website - it's the UK ones - most of the major European, Asian and American ones, plus the AIM listed shares.

LEWIS: So they have to be companies at least on some stock exchange somewhere on the list?

GILHEANEY: Though you can still of course give unlisted shares but the tax benefits aren't available.

LEWIS: Okay, let's move on now. Thanks for your call Heather - let's move on to Stephen from Reading. Stephen your question?

STEPHEN: Hello. Yes, I've got a question about Affinity credit cards. There's a lot of adverts for them these days on the basis that when you open the card account a certain amount is paid to a charity and then a small percentage for every purchase made with the card. My question is what sort of controls are there on the card issuers to make sure that they're actually transferring these funds to the charities?

LEWIS: Let me ask Vicky Pullman from Charities Aid Foundation?

PULLMAN: By law now through the Charities Act, anybody who's passing money on to a charity has to state exactly which charities are going to be benefiting and by how much and obviously that's all legally binding so there does need to be a trail and they have to be very open about it, so whenever you're taking out a card like this you'll know exactly where your money is going.

LEWIS: And it must say what percentage it is?

PULLMAN: Absolutely yes.

LEWIS: I must say from a sort of Money Box point of view - I'd be happier for people to use a cheap credit card and then give money through Gift Aid and get the tax relief. It's a more straightforward way to me and there's always that fear isn't there that you think oh I'll spend a bit more because some of it's going to charity, but in fact it's very little Peter?

GILHEANEY: Well I think - I mean it's part of the marketing of the card and I think any - any donation that's going through to the charity is great and any awareness raising also for the cause is great, but I think it's a bit like the club cards that you get with supermarkets - I think the amount given is going to be marginal, but what it should lead to is that you'll know more about that particular charity you then may want to contribute tax effectively in the future.

LEWIS: Indeed. Okay well thanks for your call Stephen. Check the small print as we always say and Gordon is calling us from Haslemere - Gordon?

GORDON: Hi. My daughter went to South America with Rally International last year and used the new charities act to - she has got a donations from third parties and the new charities act worked to her to Rally International and has benefit. My other daughter goes to a private school and they do trips abroad - can we use this legislation to defray some of the costs of paying for the trips abroad?

LEWIS: Right, well that's - a private school is not normally a charity - well some of them are I suppose, not all of them. Shirley Scott briefly, can you answer this?

SCOTT: If the - it's unusual that the private school would enable the individual pupil to benefit from the Gift Aid scheme which is what you're actually implying.

LEWIS: Yes cos it has to be given to a charity or an organisation with some kind of charitable objectives which private schools don't all have. That's all we have time for today sadly and my thanks to Peter Gilheaney from the Giving Campaign - Vicky Pullman from Charities Aid Foundation, and Shirley Scott who you just heard from the Charity Finance Director's Group. Thanks to all of you for your calls - there's more details of the things raised in the programme on our action line: 0800 044 044 Calls are free to 0800 044 044 You can visit our website: www.bbc.co.uk/moneybox. Our e-mail address is [email protected]. I'm back at noon on Saturday with MONEY BOX and back here for MONEY BOX LIVE three o'clock next Monday afternoon.

BACK ANNO: That was Paul Lewis and the producer was Penny Haslam.