By Ollie Stone-Lee BBC News Online political staff

Brendan Barber decries talk of "beer and sandwiches"

The new forum for union leaders and ministers to discuss reforms in Britain's public services will not be just a worthless talking shop, the TUC general secretary has insisted.

The forum was set up at talks between Tony Blair and union leaders on Monday to try to produce a more regular dialogue after months of tense relations.

Brendan Barber rejected any suggestion the move was a "political fix" to give ministers a more comfortable ride at next week's TUC Congress and at Labour's annual conference, where unions have tabled a series of fiercely critical motions.

But in an interview with BBC News Online, Mr Barber said healing the running sore between unions and government over issues like foundation hospitals and university tuition fees was not the key test for the new public services forum.

The forum would look at major public reform plans but would be principally concerned with issues about managing change which cut across government, he said.

'Tired cliches'

Cabinet Office Minister Douglas Alexander, who is to chair the new forum, has said government policy will not automatically change if the forum objects to it.

GMB leader Kevin Curran said watching Mr Alexander interviewed about the issue had turned him from an optimist to a pessimist about the forum's prospects.

Unison leader Dave Prentis has warned of increasing friction if the government fails to listen to union concerns and said the forum must not become a "talking shop".

Mr Barber baulked at newspaper coverage of the forum's announcement for being "dismally unimaginative" in reaching for "tired old cliches" about beer and sandwiches at Number 10.

Blair needs to show a positive vision for unions, says Barber

He said he was not concerned by Mr Alexander's public pronouncements after privately helping to seal the forum deal.

"There's never been any suggestion that the government should cede some right of veto to unions through this mechanism," he said.

Instead, it was about finding a more systematic way of harnessing and building support for changes from public sector workers and managing practical issues.

Mr Barber said: "I react against the term talking shop because the implication is that it's worthless talking...

"What kind meeting do you have where people do not talk. Is this meant to be a Quaker meeting where one just sits silently and reflect together?"

Unease

Some of the issues examined in the talks which led the forum announcement covered issues like training and skills, recruitment and retention of public sector staff and pay.

Those, as well as the headline issues, have been sparking the sense of "unease" among unions.

So, will the forum have failed if has not resolved the issue of foundation hospitals? "No, that would be a ludicrous test," said Mr Barber.

This is not a mechanism cooked up to try and produce a political fix for the next two weeks Brendan Barber

The TUC leader, who prides himself as a strong advocate of partnership industrial relations, said one of his aims since becoming TUC leader last December had been to get a better understanding with government.

He argued ministers now genuinely believed there were benefits to be won by seeking more common ground with the unions.

But he said: "I've not conceded anything. Unions' concerns about foundation hospitals ... will be reflected in our debates at Congress and at the Labour Party conference.

"The government stance at the moment is that they're not persuaded to backtrack."

'No euro momentum'

Union motions attacking the government at the upcoming conferences range from public services to Iraq, from pensions policy to the right to secondary strike action.

In a message to sceptics, Mr Barber said: "This is not a mechanism cooked up to try and produce a political fix for the next two weeks."

He pointed to unions' real frustration at the "lack of a coherent programme in the government's second term in issues of key concern to working people".

Mr Barber was disappointed too at the way progress towards the British membership of the euro had slowed since Chancellor Gordon Brown's June statement about the five economic tests for joining.

Like other pro-euro campaigners, Mr Barber had hoped there would be "real sense of momentum", despite the announcement that the tests had not been met.

He added: "All of that attention seems to have been pulled in other directions. There's not been that sense of real common purpose evident in the government since that statement."

Mr Barber also wants next week's Congress to "shine a spotlight" on progress made through agreement with the government in areas like workers' consultation rights and ending the two-tier workforce in local government.

In return for giving government credit for such moves, he urged Tony Blair "to articulate a positive vision for unions".

His conciliatory tone contrasts with some of the vocal opposition seen from some of so-called "awkward squad" of new union leaders.