|  | Add your comment The Fire Brigades' Union is calling for a 40% pay rise and have rejected the 4% they have been offered. As the army and their Green Goddesses are mobilised, fears are growing in Beds, Herts and Bucks that emergency cover may not be sufficient. Should this action be allowed? Do they deserve 40 per cent? What's the answer? Have your say here. Read more about this story
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| Gareth Auckland, Milton Keynes | Tuesday 28
January, 2003 | | | i feel that the suggestion that the Fire Brigade is selfish for not accepting a 4% pay raise when Perliment votes them selves a 40% pay rise earlier on this year is ludicres. The fire brigade is one of the few services that involves people putting their lives on the line for others when there are careers that pay 3 or 4 times what these men and women are getting and dont have half the risk of death or injury. Maybe during conflict the Fire brigade shoudl not stirke...but may i add we are not yet at war so i say let them strike and when the government reallises they are expendable maybe then tjhey will come to there sense's and start to pay a realistic salary to these people. |
| Eileen Barnett, Reading | Tuesday 28
January, 2003 | | | No I don't think they are right to strike. If you look at the training and eventual salaries of similar jobs, i.e. armed forces, then the firemen are paid much more. The armed forces face real life-threatening dangers every day. Firemen don't. They're skills are needed WHEN they are needed, but this is NOT 24hrs a day. Most firemen have two jobs and are quite nicely off. They work 2 days and 2 nights which isn't that much. They should change with the times. The soldiers etc. are now on stand-by for war with Iraq which is much more life threatening than staying in the firestation watching the tv. They should join the rest of us living in the real world in the world of the 21st century where no job is safe and the economic outlook is bad. Eileen Barnett |
| Peter, Hemel Hempstead | Tuesday 28
January, 2003 | | | Suprise Suprise at last the Communist Dictatorship of new labour has shown itself for what it really is, DO AS YOU ARE TOLD NOT AS WE DO. Only us and big business can have 40%. You cant. BABY Prescott has stamped his feet in a tantrum because he cant get his own way by beating the Firefighters. He is now bringing up Legislation from the 1940`s( Modern aint it ) to brow beat the Firefighters back to work and set the pay as per Bain. Up till now the FBU have been at all the talks the Employers aint, Prescotts only statements have been Bain Bain Bain, how many times must I emphasise it and Talk dont walk. Prescott has blamed the Firefighters for costing millions to cover the strikes, so although we have not been paid this didn`t cover the cost, that proves that we are cost effective and can do the job with 3 times the amount of calls and more staff for lees than the Military! . Got their sums wrong again. Whilst the Firefighters are on duty you get a highly motivated and proffesional and efficient service. If prescott gets his way and instigates his policy you will get an Underfunded, Shortchanged, Inefficient and demoralised Service. Blame will be firmly put on Blairs doorstep. As for making an Underfunded Service work, not any more. the Government will get their way as Firefighters will leave taking their skills and knowledge with them, and that includes me. As for using the skills at the end of operational time, ie:- Training. Fire Prevention. This is now run as a Business, for my skills 40k will do to start negotiating, the price goes up not down. David Wrigley, what do you do for a living? then I can analyse your job. As for the pay it has gone past that now we are fighting to preserve your Emergency Service. Paramedic read an earlier statement as to how long it takes to train, and you would know the reasons. Point..If we attended a Heart Attack Victim we would need to call for an Ambulance to take them to Hospital Attendance time could take 40mins, 2 Emergency Vehicles instead of 1 no Fire Cover Never mind the Government dont care why should we!!!. John NEW YORK $33,000 at half the cost of living not bad eh!! Go ahead sack them all, who will train them?? who will give them the skills?? What do you do for a living except Whinge, think of all the incidents that happened on 9/11 across America. Sorry you aren`t you are from Kent. So why are you over there? earning more there than here for the same job no doubt. |
| John (Man of Kent) New Rochelle, New York, USA. | Tuesday 28
January, 2003 | | | So the UK firefighters are up to their gun to head antics again are they? They want more money, yet I believe that their basic salary is twenty two thousand pounds per annum, and that converts to about $33,000.00 per annum, which is a pretty nice salary on either side of the Atlantic. Of course, we must not forget that they also spend a good deal of their time lounging around firehouses waiting for a call to action. I wonder how many of you are paid to lounge around, plus all the other "perks" that they enjoy. Their actions to date are a disgrace, and there is an old saying over here that applies to these greedy individuals and it is: "Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on YOU". I think that they have spat on the British public enough times now, so FIRE THEM ALL. It will be quite easy to replace them. |
| David Wrigley | Tuesday 28 January, 2003 | | | Do firefighters have to do a full weeks work - as most of us do? do they work none stop while on shift - as most of us do? how many times in a shift are they called to a dangerous situation? why not offer extra payment only when called to a dangerouse situation, surely this would be better? why are they opposed to gaining better knowledge of saving life - if i was given the opportunity to be trained as a paramedic i would welcome this, not turn it down as the firefighters are doing.In most cases they are first on the scene, so it there were a trained paramedic amongst them surely this would be a bonus. also having more experience would mean higher pay? this is what its all about - isnt it? |
| Che, Stevenage | Tuesday 28 January, 2003 | | | Melanie and Hayley, What started out as firefighters asking to negotiate a pay increase is now a fight to stop cuts to the uk fire service. You may seem to think cutting 1/3 of the uk fire service is ok and wont really affect people as its always someone else that needs to call them - i know this because people have said it to me - after their home has been involved in a fire. By cutting fire engines, fire stations and firefighters you are asking fewer and fewer resources to go to more and more incidents further and further away which means we arrive later and later which ultimately means more and more people will die or be injured and more and more property will be damaged which will mean me and you pay more and more to insurance companies, who incidently saw a massive rise in insurance payouts and costs when we were on our 8 day strike. Sounds all very reasonable, so if we were to accept the bain deal we would effectively being paid more for allowing a worse fire service to the tax payers - that is what Mr Blair and Co call Best Value! |
| Che, Stevenage | Tuesday 28 January, 2003 | | | Sarah, Birmingham dont you think it is stupid and immature that our employers did not negotiate with us for over four months? They acknowleded themselves a need to increase our salaries yet could not bring themselves to actually name it or negotiate it. They only started negotiating the week before the 1st strike and only under pressure from government. We did eventually manage to come up with a deal that the employers were happy with and we were happy with unfortunately this deal did not allow for the wholesale cuts to the uk fire service the government wished for and so was blocked by government with one hour to go. The cost to the government of this deal 100 million pounds. the cost of the strike so far to the government 70 million pounds. Its funny that two firefighters have died trying to save life in the past 3 months yet neither had Tony Blair praise their actions and neither had Tony Blair go to their funerals yet they paid the unltimate price for doing thei! r job. Something the unfortunate Detective in the midlands had the honour of. I seem to remember mr blair praising the skills and abilities of myself and my collegues when we went to the hatfield and potters bar rail crashes yet when we want recognition of those skills we are then labelled greedy, selfish, scum. Well come on Mr Blair what are we? you obviously say whatever suits your agenda and makes you look good to the public. |
| Peter, Hemel | Tuesday 28 January, 2003 | | | Melanie And Hayley. It appears that you dont mind if Firefighters get hurt or killed as long you dont. When I am on strike even my own family are at the same risk as you are. Sarah Anyone would think that we were exempt from the risk of no Emergency Services, we are the same as you. Blame Blair and his cronies, they have not bothered to talk to acas, all they do is send a message. |
| Sarah, Birmingham | Tuesday 28 January, 2003 | | | I am strongly against the firefighter strike because they are putting other peoples lives at risk. they are moaning because they say they don't get enough money for what they do but they chose to do that job knowing exactly how much they were getting payed. Overall i think it is irresponsible and immature. |
| Melanie and Hayley, Birmingham | Tuesday 28 January, 2003 | | | We are against this because even though they risk their lives we could die for it. i dont suppose they would like it if they were trapped in a blaze. we are strongly against it and they get paid more than the average person. They are luckier than some people !!! |
| Peter, Hemel Hempstead | Tuesday 28 January, 2003 | | | AB Luton Why should people put up with low wages and high bills just to suit the Labour howlers and mismanagement. SO SHUT UP AND LIVE WITH IT |
| Marantha, Devizes | Tuesday 28 January, 2003 | | | They do a good job they should get paid more. support them i am. They do lots for our country they save lives for people but they arnt getting payed enough for wot they do. |
| Bill Stevenson, Stevenage | Monday 27 January, 2003 | | | Blair, Prescott and Bain can manipulate the figures how ever they want, but when push comes to shove, I personaly would rather two fire appliances turn up when only one is needed, rather than one turn up and have to wait for the second to travel 20 miles because of modernistaion. One night last year my sister, who lives in Stevenage Town centre opposite the Fire/Ambulance station, had to wait 45 minutes for an ambulance to be dispatched from Letchworth. What annoys me is that across the road from her we could see Ambulances unmanned and sitting idle. Do we want the same of our Fire service. |
| AB, Luton | Monday 27 January, 2003 | | | Firefighters get alot more money than most people. Have any of them bothered to look up the typical wages the rest of us have to live on. My husband and I earn just over the amount a single firefighter gets between the two of us. We manage to pay the bills. All I have to say to the firefighters is do what everyone else does - SHUT UP! AND LIVE WITH IT! |
| Peter, Hemel Hempstead | Monday 27 January, 2003 | | | Where do you start with this lot, well here goes. ROB in Saudi, I wish you and your colleagues good luck and hope you stay safe, you are doing a difficult job. The Military personnel have thrown into the Firefighters dispute due to the Government not classing the Fire Service as essential, this also goes for the Ambulance Service as they can both be covered by yourselves. Michael Aylesbury Answer I WILL WHEN I AM PAID..Adam Stevanage,several questions.. Do you support the war?? Why is the Military thin on the ground?? Why are they calling up the reserves??. As for coping with the Strike yes they have JUST with only a third of the total normal calls received NATIONALLY, most of which have become rough carparks and Insurance write offs. Nigel The radios COST MONEY with the Bain review OOPS CUTS who pays??. Pathfinder covers a single scenario so does Bain CUT CUT AND CUT. the Pathfinder has 19 d notices because it contradicts Bain so both are government which is TRUE You answered it. Due to the increase of population and increase in calls the numbers of personnel and appliances needs to increase, cutting is not a logical development , ENOUGH SAID BYE BYE BAIN. What about the Military at Barracks Just guard duty the rest sleep waiting for something to happen. Yes those on guard would get taken to task for sleeping. Going into Fire Safety at 50-55yrs old. Private Companies pay 35k upwards YES PLEASE thats more than I earn NOW |
| Che, Stevenage | Monday 27 January, 2003 | | | Adam, When i joined Herts Fire and rescue i lived at home with my mum, i paid next to nothing in terms of bills etc, and yes i was rather well off because the £15600 pound wage i started on was basically spending money. Then, rather selfishly, i got married and had a son. Trouble was i didnt think i would ever get married etc so when i joined i didnt think of the consequences of life and the wages i earned. I dont think i am unique in this lack of judgement - however when it came to moving out of my one bed council flat and buying a home( minimum of 6 years for council house) in stevenage i and my wife who also worked full time could not afford a mortgage together. Adam yes i did join to save lives and actually make a real difference to someones life whilst at work, is it then wrong to expect to be paid an equivalent salary that reflects my skills? You go on to mention the armed services (its not just the army) well you are right they do an adequate job at incidents when peoples lives are not involved. I went to an incident from my picket line and rescued a man trapped in his van. he would surely of died if we had not because the RAF rescue van had neither the equipment or the Firefighters had the training to of accoumplished the extrification. this has been repeated throughout the country. The Green Goddess crew that attended had had a grand total of...... 1 and a half hours total fire training each oh and the Green Goddess broke down at the incident as well. I assume that you are a teacher as you make the reference to teachers, do you not think you are wrong comparing professions that are uncomparable. Teachers do a fantastic job under difficult circumstances but their desicions do not have life and death consequences their tools are those of learning ours are of saving life in any circumstance. It seems to me that not just yourself but many people just do not understand the real role of a firefighter, Londons Burning is not at all a true reflection of our job as The Bill is not that of a Police Officer and Grange Hill is not reflective of Teachers! I will keep striking until my employers who have ignored us for a few moths short of a year actually sit down and start negotiating unfortunately at the moment they want us to sit down and negotiate 'a non negotiable deal'. the dispute will be ended by meeting in the middle somewhere so the ball is in the employers court. |
| David, Biggleswade | Sunday, 26 January, 2003 | | | In my opinion the emergency services especially fire fighters do one of the hardest jobs you can do so why do they get paid under 30000 a year when some guy who kicks a ball around a field gets millions. there is enough money in our economy to pay everyone a decent set wage enough to live off |
| Bill, Stevenage | Saturday 25 January, 2003 | | | I have read most of the Bain review and there are some good points made. But let's be realistic, the Government will only implement the ones that save money. Read between the lines and you will see that the Government agenda is to eventually privatise the Fire Service. |
| Adam, Stevenage | Saturday 25 January, 2003 | | | No matter what job you do you will always believe it to be underpaid. The prime reason people chose to become a firefighter is I expect to: save lives, be a member of a team etc etc. Before joining the rate of pay is known and an informed decision to become a figherfighter is made with 100% knowlegde of pay and benefits. I do not doubt that the service provided is very good, but the army have proved that an adequate job can be done with far less sophisticated equipoment and 1/3 of the man power. Firefighters only work 4 days a week and many have second jobs which make up their salary. Many experienced teachers do not have a salary of £30k and I believe they have a more demanding job carrying far more responsibility than the average firefighter. I believe the government is right in not giving into firefighters excessive demands. I also believe the fire brigade union should not be holding the government and the country to ransom by striking and stretching the armed services resources in a time when national security is threatened. That is irresonsible and not at all professional. A firefighter is not worth £30k a year - get real. |
| Nigel, Luton | Saturday, 25 January, 2003 | | | Peter, Hemel: With regard to your comment about the Army sleeping at night, sleeping on duty is a severe offence and receives appropriately severe punishments. A large proportion of the Army would have been awake during the nights before the Iraq issue because they are stretched so thinly on the ground in most of the world's trouble spots. |
| Nigel, Luton | Saturday, 25 January, 2003 | | | In response to your questions: 1. How much should a qualified firefighter earn? - Difficult, as I believe the whole system of pay should change. Under the current structure, I think a 5% rise to cover cost of living increases would be fair. I would, however, prefer trainees to start on a lower wage, say £14k, rising in monthly increments to a maximum of £17k. On qualification, a jump to £20k, thereafter equal annual increments leading to £32k at age 65. Between ages 50 and 55, depending on fitness and preference, the firefighter would leave the operational role and undertake less physically demanding work such as promoting fire safety, routine checks etc. By continuing to work at this age, there would be no need to build up such a large pension so that take-home pay would be effectively increased by about 6% in comparison to current values, paying 5% into a pension fund, rather than 11%. The employer would be paying 10% into the pension fund instead of 22%, this saving being used to fund the additio! nal length of employment. The numbers have just been pulled out of the air but are based on what I think is reasonable for people at the start and end of a life-long employment. 2. Do I believe cutting the number of firefighters......? Not again, I've been through this with Che and John. Simple answer - NO! though I do believe that shuffling them about has a lot of merit. Firefighters, have some ammunition donated by Nigel - the population of Britain is increasing, therefore the numbers of fires and other emergencies will also increase. While some of this can be absorbed by firefighters being busier, in the already-busy areas, the numbers of personnel and appliances need to increase. Cutting is not a logical development. |
| Nigel, Luton | Saturday 25 January, 2003 | | | Bill, Stevenage: Under the Pathfinder report, you could find more vacancies for higher echelon positions advertised. It suggests that applicants from a non-Brigade background are enrolled for the managerial positions (Sub-Officer upwards) because firefighters don't generally have the intellect for office work. (Not my words, before people jump on my back). This obviously severely restricts the promotion prospects for the people who "do the job" and will end up producing the same situation that we have with the Health Service - people who don't appreciate the consequences of their actions creaming the bulk of the finances. The particular post you quote would seem to be a follow-up from the Bain Review which described the Fire Service as institutionally racist. I wouldn't worry about the description as I suspect it was a condition of the Government funding of the report that it had to be included somewhere. The post has obviously been created to appease the Politically Correct Brigade and will require the holder to send annual questionnaires asking your ethnic origin and to put the little bit about "ethnic minorities/women are currently under-represented in this area" in job adverts. How come we never see that bit in adverts for road sweepers or encouraging ethnic english doctors? |
| Nigel, Luton | Saturday 25 January, 2003 | | | Peter, Hemel: The Pathfinder report starts by making it clear that it has only considered a single scenario and that many others need to be considered before any decisions are taken. Hence it is, at best, incomplete. My view is that it has been a lengthy and costly exercise which, without the other scenarios, wasn't worth bothering with. I don't know what censorship has been applied to it (obviously, as you inform that it has been censored) but would not be surprised if at least some of the censorship is because the Government would then be called to account for wasting so much public money (again). I would love to see the Ove Arup criticisms of the draft which were glossed over (not even cleverly) without description in the final version. |
| Nigel, Luton | Saturday 25 January, 2003 | | | Che: Yes, Bain IS raking up ideas that currently exist, but the main point of his proposal is that the LOCAL Chief Officers can decide whether or not they are appropriate in their area, rather than have some Central Government office-wallah dictate what ALL Brigades have to do. The Bain Review doesn't state what HAS to be done, therefore it doesn't contradict itself when two opposing ideas are put forward. As an example, I quote (approximately) two statements made by one of your colleagues on these pages - 1. Most fire-related deaths occur before the Fire Brigade is called. 2. The Fire Brigade responds within 5 minutes. Both statements are true but taken out of context tend to suggest that one of the appliances attending could be replaced by a hearse. With regard to your out of date radios, has nobody thought of changing to mobile phones? |
| Michael, Aylesbury | Saturday 25 January, 2003 | | | One word to the fireman : get real and get back to work. Get on with your job and let the Armed Forces get on with theirs for the greater national and international good. |
| Rob, Saudi | Friday 24
January, 2003 | | | John Luton, I am actually here to patrol the no-fly zone over Southern Iraq in order to stop Saddam Hussain bombing the Kurds. It is incidental that my squadron will be used in any conflict with Iraq. Who do you think protects British Airspace against hostile A/C, whether military or hijacked airliners? And before you suggest that it is only because of the twin towers, we have had Quick Reaction Alert 24 hours a day, 365 days a year ever since the end of the cold war. Oh and who provides search & rescue cover for coastal and mountain areas? |
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