|  | Add your comment The Fire Brigades' Union is calling for a 40% pay rise and have rejected the 4% they have been offered. As the army and their Green Goddesses are mobilised, fears are growing in Beds, Herts and Bucks that emergency cover may not be sufficient. Should this action be allowed? Do they deserve 40 per cent? What's the answer? Have your say here. Read more about this story
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| che, stevenage | Monday 23
December, 2002 | | | Nigel its all very well you talking about london and shuffling pumps about the city but what about Herts or Beds i would assume you advocate an INCREASE in appliances and firefighters at night as you quite rightly state the people move out from the city to counties like this, the place where you and i live. Problem is Bain doesnt advocate this - his terms of reference are to cut the cost of the fire service and the only way to do this is to cut its most valuble asset - its staff - then reduce the cost of its staff so the much flaunted pension will go (He states this), training will be reduced (too expensive) eventually skills will be reduced (he advocates this as well). Over time this will equate to more deaths and injuries you dont need to be a professor to work it out. Currently EVERY firefighter is capable of doing EVERY job needed this saves valuble time at incidents and is, funnily enough, cost effective - no need to call on extra appliances so the kit can be operated. The fire service hasnt stood still for 25 years it has moved on and evolved systems of work that are safe and effective. I dont personally like handling and dealing with dead people however this will be the result of cost cutting, paying firefighters ?30 000 per year for the professional skills they have and the professional job they do will kill no one and will certainly not affect the economy. i think i would be right in saying Mr Blairs next adventure abroad will do both. I am not a bad person dont make me out to be one because i recognise the value of my own worth. |
| Barbara Cooke, Hemel Hempstead Herts | Monday 23
December, 2002 | | | Nigel you ARE very much against firefighters you have to argue in your petty way on everthing and to say you have not met anyone who is not on the firefighters side is either a LIE or you only talk to people like I said I have spoken to who are against the dispute,or for it. one thing for certain I have not said everybody is for the dispute if you read my letter properly! Yes I am married to a fireman and yes you could say I am bias to him wanting a wage rise but lets get facts straight if your wife (if you have one) did not stand by you, your marriage is not worth it . What I dont like is YOU who I think is very small minded relying on the Bain report and nothing else to quote your small minded facts every time you reply I think you are Tony Blair who goes under the name of Nigel. Again you have not got your facts right when you said about the 10,000 firefighters they will! be RETIRING from a job THEY (not you) Love They are the 10,000 dedicated people who have to leave a job in what you would call modernisation with a attitude like yours are you going to be kind hearted and offer them jobs ? I think not you are inclined to think they are all going to be well off money grabbers, who can have a monoply on holding the country to ransom what a very sad way you have at looking at things. I doubt you have any firefighter freinds who would even begin to listen to you pull the job they do apart, because someone like you would not like them to do the same to you in the job you do so well ? |
| MIke, Bedford | Monday 23
December, 2002 | | | Is it not strange that we no longer here about the talks going on at ACAS??? and no new strikes untill after the New Year????( only two days) could it because that once the war starts in Iraq we will need the 16.000. troops on fire cover to go to war and who will cover the fire strike !!!! Is this a way for the fire service to get the money they clam for.or will the Govenment use this as its new spin as not to pay any extra pay to any one as we will have to pay for the war....? |
| Diana, Abbots Langley | Monday 23
December, 2002 | | | I would simply like to say, give the fireman a decent wage for a job which calls for dedication, skill and bravery. £21,500 is a joke in this day and age for a skilled and often dangerous occupation. It's all very well telling firemen to get another job if they are not happy with the pay, but what happens when we have a shortage of fireman, because no-one wishes to join the service due to poor pay? Yes, it is difficult to accept them striking, because we all know that there is a high risk of a disaster when they are on strike, but it is the government that are holding them to ransom knowing full well that an awful lot of the public will not support striking fire fighters. So, yell and scream at the government and not our long suffering fire fighters. HAPPY XMAS TO ALL FIREMAN AND GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR FIGHT!!!! |
| Steve, Luton | Monday 23 December, 2002 | | | Well said John - I'm sick of Nigel's ramblings too.... Happy Christmas to all |
| John Smythe, UK | Monday 23 December, 2002 | | | Perhaps this have your say should be re-named the Nigel message board. He really is a very bitter person. The Fire Services job is to save life and to protect propery. Peoples lives fist and then their livelyhood. What he dosn't seen to realise is that an awfull lot of companies badly affected by fire do not re-open, or downsize considerably. This so called exorbitant pay claim is for an increase of £3.91 per hour before stoppages for a qualified firefighter with 5 years service. 40% of peanuts is peanuts. The Pathfinder review is an eye opener,it will be out for all to see soon, The 8 million pound government review into fire coverIt will more than likely be leaked because the government do not want to publish it as it is the complete opposite of the Bain review. |
| Peter, Hemel Hempstead | Monday 23 December, 2002 | | | Kelv Your Council Tax and mine will rise cosiderably with or without the Firefighters payrise, and just in case you are BLIND and DEAF the Firefighters have dropped our claim to as low as 16%, you didn`t see the Government drop their 40% or have they come to talks with the FBU they are sticking to the BLAIR REVIEW. NIGEL The reason for the shortage of appliances and Firestations in the Suburbs is they were the cuts last time round to save money, Because the Government have continually cut the budget to the National Fire Service.Now what about this Government review that has suddenly appeared (not the Bain report) stating that the National Fire Service should be increased and that the Retained and Volunteer Firefighters should be FULL TIME, the report also states that in the long term it would be cost effective and save more lives and property. 2 reports 2 conclusions and 5 persons that know EVERYTHING about the Fire Service, Blair,Prescott,Brown,Reynsford,Bain. After all look how much Fire Ground experience and expertise they have ABSOLUTE ZIP,their only interest is MONEY not LIVES or FAMILIES |
| Kelv, Stevenage | Saturday 21 December, 2002 | | | 40%? That is vastly unrealistic in this century with inflation running well below 4% for years & everybody else having to settle for modest or no pay rise. As for risking their lives, well Im sure they do once or twice (most fire tackling is done with a set procedure & safety being paramount, lives are rarely put at risk). The fire fighters should accept a 5% rise & be grateful & the blind support I guess comes chiefly from those women who coo every time they pass the offices & factories, though Im at odds as to why they should fancy someone dressed up like Paddington bear. However before you next toot & support your firefighters' laughable pay claim remember that should a 40% pay claim be granted your council tax for next financial year will rise dramatically (possibly around 16-20% !!!)...Yes you hadnt thought of that had you? |
| Nigel, Luton | Saturday 21 December, 2002 | | | From the Firefighter Official Bulletin 23: "PUBLIC NEEDS TO WAKE UP Providing the local public the opportunity to find out the facts behind the government spin machine is now the objective of Lewes fire station in East Sussex, which earlier this week launched what will be a series of open evenings. Only one person turned up." Is this an indication of the level of support? |
| Nigel, Luton | Saturday 21 December, 2002 | | | Emma: Perhaps you've not considered that the police don't go to bed during their night shifts? |
| Nigel, Luton | Saturday 21 December, 2002 | | | Barb, Hemel: I don't dislike firefighters. I dispute the arguments given for their exorbitant pay claim. I also do not like being held to ransom. If other occupations went on strike, the customers of the companies involved would go to other suppliers, therefore strike action would be between the workers and their employers. The firefighters have a monopoly on their service, therefore their actions affect the innocent. You say that you have met more people on the side of the firefighters than not. Other than on these pages, I have met NOBODY who sides with the firefighters. Unless I am confusing you with somebody else who sent in a previous e-mail, you are a firefighter's wife. As such, your circle of friends probably is more biased towards the firefighters. Also, your views are biased as you will be a beneficiary of any pay rise. I'm not trying to have a dig at you, but justification for a massive pay increase needs to be based on more than "I think they should have one." Just as the next strike by public service workers will almost certainly have the argument "They had a big pay rise so why can't we?" With regard to night shift staffing in the City of London, most of the buildings there will be empty at night except for security staff who will either be at the front desk (i.e. next to the big doors at the front) or in the security office (almost invariably situated next to the fire doors at the back). There is therefore minimal risk to life in the event of a fire. Add to this the fact that virtually all of these offices have automatic sprinklers and fire alarm systems, therefore escape times are increased. They have dedicated fire escape routes which provide one hour protection. Response times by the Fire Brigade are faster because they don't have to contend with the same volume of traffic as during the day. Structural components also have fire protection which provides between half an hour and two hours protection, so! f! ire damage is likely to be restricted to the seat of the fire and smoke damage to the floor level of the fire. The smoke damage, most of which will probably occur before the Fire Brigade leaves the Station is likely to be the major component of insurance claims - while you can clean a window, you can't clean the inside of a computer. The internal finishes of the offices need stripping out, structural components need specialist cleaning and new internal finishes need to be installed. Typically, this will close down a building for several months, yet few people lose their jobs because they will set up office elsewhere within a few weeks. The same cannot be said of HOUSES - how long did it take to process your last domestic insurance claim?. I have said that I am not in disagreement with the section of the Bain Review which advocates moving SOME of the firefighters to suburb areas at night. This way the response times to the places where PEOPLE live (and are more likely to! b! e involved in RTAs) will be reduced. Am I wrong in favouring saving lives over preventing computers burning, particularly when they will be discarded anyway because they smell or have been soaked by water? If you look at the Bain Review, you will find a map showing the distribution of appliances around London. To me, the suburbs don't seem particularly well served and I would prefer so see an increase in these areas. Local Authorities don't have a bottomless pit of finances, so it's unlikely that the number of Fire Stations will increase. If the firefighters get their 40% rise, I wouldn't be surprised if some of these Stations close in order to finance the wage bill. So when you talk about 10,000 firefighters not being replaced over the next 2 years, bear in mind the cause for it. The Bain Review also advocates that decisions on staffing and shifts are decided at local level, rather than by a remote central authority which has no feel for the needs of particular areas.! ! The FBU seems to have dismissed the Bain Review out of hand because it has only one agenda, "Gimme, gimme, gimme." I know a few firefighters and, prior to the pay dispute, they would extol the virtues of being in the Service - time off, second jobs, social life, retirement at 50 while receiving a pension higher than many people's wages etc. The firefighters current wage is not low by any standards, particularly in respect of the younger ones, and certainly they have better benefits than vitually anybody else. |
| Emma Davies, Bradford | Fri 20 December, 2002 | | | i feel that the firefighters have a birth right to get a wage increase because as said before they are putting there OWN lives at rosk to save others, just as the police do and yet the police get paid more? What's going on there then! To those people who think the firefighter's are putting more peoples lives at risk through striking i ask them, if you had a cause would you be fighting for it? |
| Barb, Hemel | Fri 20 December, 2002 | | | Nigel you seem to have a hell of a lot to say for yourself! What is your problem ? The way you go on it seems like you have been rejected all your life by not being able to make a fireman as you once said you thought about. Well I can tell you with a attitude like yours towards ALL firefighters you would never have made the grade. You have tried to bring every kind of argumant you could have thought about into this dispute. O.K Lots of people will have their say against the firefighters and believe me I have met more who are on their side than not but I have never met anyone like you who has to condemn and argue in the attitude that you have. You need to look at your own life before you keep going on and on about what the firefighters need to do to please the likes of you (which I am glad to hear you are on your own).Oh And I finaly understand Nigel of Luton realy does hate! firefighters! Because one sentence he goes on about less firefighters at night and in his next statement he says no one will be made redundent he obviously does not know it all when NO there wont be redundancies they Just wont replace the 10,000 firefighters that are due to retire in the next 2 years that is a fact! so how will these empty offices at night cope if they started to burn I dont think your that stupid do you Nigel? So maybe when even more people are out of work due to their offices going up in smoke and insurances going up at a fast rate you can have even more to blame the firefighters and FBU for. |
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