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Newest messages appear at the top>>PBF Appointees
Michael, if you go to the web site (PBF Monitor)dealing with PBF matters and sign onto the bulletin board you will find a lot of views about the operations of the PBF in UK. With regard to who appoints the trustees, it's the Rector of the Polish Catholic Church who resides in London. As such you might come to a view that one person cannot have a free and independent view of who such be a trustee and come come to the conclusion that it is a closed shop.
wiesniak
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PBF proposed changes to Trust Deed of 1952
I came across your site by chance - I was not aware of the proposal to change the PBF Scheme.
Like your correspondent "Wiesniak" I feel that the advertising has been inadequate. The proposed amendment does appear under reference "Schemes on the Internet" Registered Number : 213673, Charity Name : THE POLISH BENEVOLENT FUND. Area : NATIONAL, Publication Dates : 09/07/2004 to 08/08/2004, ... www.charity-commission.gov.uk/supportingcharities/ schemes/sch000003.asp?PDFName=38400609/07/2004 to 08/08/2004"
I have, therefore, written a letter to the Charity Commissioners with, I hope, some constructive comments which reads as follows ...
"There is no actual Statement by what date the representation as to be made. Why not? A statement that representation should be made by the date stated in the Scheme is hardly adequate when no final date appears therein? Does it? In these days of 'plain English' the whole matter should have been handled far better.
Subject to your comments I do not consider that this is adequate consultation. I also feel that in view of the fact that the Polish Parish Communities in the UK have made considerable contributions to the PBF you should have insisted that each Parish which uses PBF premises should hold a meeting by a given date, if they, wish and send you their comments.
I think, that I am right in saying that many Parishes had no idea that the Scheme was being amended. Nobody objects to the Trustees having an indemnity cover in today's world but amending the Trust Deed by (how many?) Trustees is another matter.
I am not aware when the Trustee meetings are held and where, what is the Agenda for each meeting. I have never heard of the Minutes or Resolutions being published in the Polish press.
Bearing in mind your current consultations about the effectiveness of Trustees these matters are of considerable importance I await your considered reply. Your consultation facility should be designed in such a way that a copy of my submission to you should also go to my e-mail address so that I can have a copy for future reference of my comments."...
I do not envy the job of the Trustees but their identity is not known to the majority of Poles in the UK. One does not know how they are appointed. Is it a closed shop?If so, it should not be bearing in mind that the monies belong to the community who generously contributed the funds.
Michael Myers
Leicester
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Polish Benevolent Fund
the PBF trustees have decided to alter the trust but I am not aware of where the notice was placed, as far as i know the trustees have kept this very quiet, why have they not written to each Polish centre to inform them of their move?
Surely if they care for the beneficiaries, they should let them know of their moves.
By chance some people found the information on the internet. I can't remember the web site address, but go into Google, then write in words 'Polish Benevolent Fund charity scheme' and this will put you in the right direction. Then read about it, and if you are a beneficiary respond to the scheme. All beneficiaries should make an effort to write in.
a beneficiary of the PBF
Nottingham
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PBF looking to Change the Trust Deeds
It was advertised in Gazeta Niedzelna which has a circulation of 2,500. The number of beneficiaries in UK totals around 250,000!!!
wiesniak
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Polish Benevolent Fund
the PBF trustees have decided to alter the trust but I am not aware of where the notice was placed, as far as i know the trustees have kept this very quiet, why have they not written to each Polish centre to inform them of their move? Surely if they care for the beneficiaries, they should let them know of their moves. By chance some people found the information on the internet. I can't remember the web site address, but go into Google, then write in words 'Polish Benevolent Fund charity scheme' and this will put you in the right direction. Then read about it, and if you are a beneficiary respond to the scheme. All beneficiaries should make an effort to write in.
a beneficiary of the PBF
Nottingham
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PBF Charter
If you read the PBF Charity Charter of 1952 , you will find that the initial ideals were in favour of the UK Polish Communities, but over time the trustees have ignored them for their own needs. And if you quote the initial charter to anyone from the PBF they will say it has no meaning today. In fact, I wouldnt be surpised if the Charter is in the process of being re-written.
Cezary
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loss to parish
the reasons for much confusion and dissaray in notingham is precisely this kind of ludicrous statement - wojtek the writer claims that the parish ahd an income from its hall hire of £18k per annum , this is at the top end of the scale but does not mention that £9260 of this income came in from room rental in orchard house ( an adjacent building ) and that stays unaffected by the new arrangement.
as to the £6k from the alternative proposal this is very dubious as to date the club had paid no rent and was barely able to keep its head above water so where the extra revenue is to come from is a real mystery og god .
The parishioners have had to endure this pathetic campaign and even now the license has been granted the troublmakers are threatening to launch an appeal ,
the effect of this can only be to delay matters , there can be no grounds for a successful appeal as the licensing criteria have been met ,
the end result : the bar remains closed for a further 3 or 4 months , the costs of the appeal to be borne by innocent people duped into giving money to a lost cause and the parish recievning no renatl income in the interim .
It is now very clear to most people that this is not a campaign for waht is good for the parish but a campaign that originated on the spur of the moment which has now gone horribly wrong
a kowalczyk
nottingham
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One more Polish community sold out by .PBF
Regretibly I have to announce that on 22 JULY the gentleman who PBF have decided to grant a licence to operate a proprietry club in the Polish Community Centre in Nottingham has been granted a pub licence and a section 77 which in effect will now also presumably allow him to operate a nightclub.
He now has full controlof the Parish hall,the community kitchen, and two bars. By PBF allowing a proprietry club to operate, as opposed to a private members club which had operated for over fifty years, all income generated from the hire of the hall will go away from members.
Previously because the hall was under the total control of the Parish this had generated £18,000, this is now lost which means less money for the parish to be able to sustain itself. Additionally even if the private members club had only generated a further £6000 these profits would have also gone back to the Parish.Therefore if one considers the monetary loss to the Parish it will now be at the very least £12,000 worse off.
The community loss is even greater,the community kitchen will be off limits, as this business will take precidence over community needs.Any fund raising events if they have not taken place in previous years will only be allowed if there is a booking and payment. Any youth organisations will not be able to use the hall ad hoc because of the proprietry club now be taking precidence over its use.
Have PBF sold out the beneficiaries of Nottingham? A resounding YES. At no point have the beneficiaries ever been consulted over any possible changes. Decisions have been taken without due thought and consideration of the whole community's needs from the very young to the old. WHAT A SELLOUT!
Wojtek
Nottingham
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and more on the subject of PBF
I agree entirely with Rafal's comments.
Whilst on this subject, who monitors the Polish priests in the various parishes? I work full-time, but I don't get 5 - 7 weeks paid holiday during the year. I see Polish priests having 2 weeks in Poland in May, then another 5 weeks in July/August. Must be a very good life - who do they answer to in the end? Who are they accountable to?
Those in small parishes should be given additional duties, not just in the one parish - or is it too much for them to travel to other towns? Our parents arrived in the UK with absolutely nothing, except the clothes they had on their backs.
They worked very hard to achi! eve something for their families and their local Polish community. We now have "playboy" type priests who are only interested in flash cars, mobile 'phones and laptops (not necessarily in that order). One thing for sure, now that I have seen how they behave, how they treat our parents and grandparents (only interested in the "new" generation of Poles flooding our centres, they will not receive any more money in the collection plates from me.
A member of a Polish community
UK
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PBF
Maybe it would be in everybody's best interest if the PBF lost its charitable status even if it be for a short time. They have proven that they treat beneficiaries with contempt. They are only of use to them to fill the collection plates so that our friendly priests can enjoy a certain lifestyle.
A top to bottom review of the structure and organisation would be needed as well as the removal of dictatorial powers from those who are unelected and unaccountable and can often only hide behind Canon Law, which as we all know carries no weight whatsoever in the real world.
Rafal
London
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Internal auditors
What is PBF's view on internal auditors for parishes? Do they view them as a necessary 'evil' or as an insignificant doddery group of people who can be dispensed with? Or is it down to every priest whether he wants them or not?
Surely they play an important part and they understand the system of the Polish communities which the prof. auditors do not fully see or fully understand. Both groups (voluntary and paid) should be there working together to complement the organisation. If the internal auditors are dispensed with, something is more than not quite right.
Grazyna
Grantham
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Role of the PBF
Mr Szparka and others.....
Having lived in the UK since the 1950's and attended Polska Szkola and Polish Churches, I find it incredible that some messages on the board fear a PBF takeover or see the PBF as the enemy!
For 40 years the PBF worked in the background not interferring in parish affairs - so now they are criticised for doing nothing. When the Polish parishes can no longer support themselves, the PBF is called in to sort the mess out - when they do say something, they are criticised for interferring.
Listen, the PBF can only act for the benefit of the people - Within Polish parishes, some people are for and others against, whatever the issue is. It has always been that way and some are grateful for the democracy our forefathers fought and died for, that allowed all the views to be aired. But, please don't invent bogeymen that don't exist.
Polish parishoner
London
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Stoke Polish Catholic Centre to be closed
It is with great regret that I must announce that the PBF have finally decided to close the Polish Catholic Centre in Stoke.
This is no great surprise and I certainly do not intend to condemn the PBF for taking this action, it has been on the cards for a good while now.
However the PBF will now find themselves with a prime piece of real estate on their hands so I would like to find out exactly what will happen to the proceeds of the sale, assuming they do intend to sell the building. The Centre was built up over many years using loans from the PBF, which were all paid back in full and with interest. Therefore it seems only right and proper that the proceeds from the sale of the building should return to the Polish community in Stoke on Trent.
Unfortunatly the Polish community in Stoke is largely made up of the old folks who use the daycare centre which started off this whole debate. As this daycare centre is running very low on funds at the moment, to the point where it can only meet once a week, surely it would be only right and proper for the PBF to use the money to help the very people who built the club and left the PBF with such a fine building. After all, we pay our mortgages in order to help in some small way towards our retirements and I know of no reputable lender who would demand the proceeds from the sale of our homes once the debt has been fully re-paid.
I would be very interested to hear Mr Sikora-Sikorski's opinion on the matter including full clarification of any plans involving the sale of the building and the distribution of the proceeds.
Jurek Biegus jnr
Burslem
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Nottingham Polish Club
BOTH SIDES CALL A TRUCE! Settle this as adults.
I am opposed to the club going into private hands, and nothing will change this. However, my view is also that people will oppose my views, so let the Nottingham Parafia decide. THIS IS DEMOCRACY
The whole issue of the commercial tender was certainly not thought out properly and many issues and discussions, ie club assets and recompense for loss of income is certainly a matter for discussion. You see this is where the difference between the private tender and club tender is non-sensicle for the parish.
A quick reply of "give the lease to knapczyk for a year" is clearly not a well thought out solution. Nobody would accept this. Clearly it is not going to be acceptable, with the grievances aired to date.
My Solution
Please note these views are not the views of any "sides". Quite clearly the club still has a license, get at least an interim contract signed with the Polish club. The rental will give the Polish Parafia some much needed cash. Get back the missing stock. A ballot of all parishoners is possible.
EGMs are only a basis for debate, using them as a ballot mechanism does not work because it will probably always get cancelled at the last minute until a quorum in favour of a PBF view is attained. This is fair, registered and represents the views of the Polish community.
If the Polish community want the club to be private, in the long term future, there will be a final yeh or neh. The priest cannot use a veto. If the parishoners want a private club, let it be.
Both sides need to swallow that bitter pill, but if the cause is the Polish community as is described on both sides, then surely it is worth it.
Are we adults? lets behave as such. Everbody has to stand by the decision of the Parishoners, whether you're opposed to it or not. This is democracy. Not only that but it is the polish parafia who decides (the beneficiaries) and the whole thing is clear and nobody can argue with the result.
akowalczyk I believe, you admit that this was not the case in this tender.If this bitter pill, is not swallowed, this has the potential to bring the PBF so much bad PR.
"Longton" and Devonia are keeping silent, but how long can this attitude continue? The Land act does categorically state if there are any significant changes to buildings held in trust, beneficiaries must be consulted. This as I understand has not been done to date and this is reason why people I think have gueniune grievances.
In the meantime, I believe that no applications for licenses should be made, legal proceedings dropped and BOTH wiadomosci as tool to get people more involved and not as a tool for picking fights. I think both sides agree the proboszcz's position cannot be saved. This is probably the most amicable solution one can get at this stage.
In the meantime, I do not want to get involved in politics but just get a solution. Any opinions to this should be aired on this message board, I do not want to get involved in any personal discussions at this time on this subject.
Remember, debate and resolution are the weapons of the intelligent, legal proceedings and fighting are for the weak and those who don't want to succeed.
Glupi Polak
Krakow, Polska
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polish club
to mr poniatowski: this is exactly where the problem is , an egm was called for september 14th 2003 which on its agenda had a speech which would have explained the need to a: close the club in its current format , how and why and b: how to make it a commercial venture for the benefit of the parish ... as is typical of all poles in this parish there are too many "znawce" and not enough workers .
Most appear to have some sort of letters after thier names or better still dubious specialist qualfications.
Where were all the community concerned members all year round with thier support for the club or even worse when it came to agm time to take on a non-fee paying job ? its all well and good criticising others but you people have had 50 years of running the place and over the last few years the opening hours have been greatly reduced and the wages bill was taking well over its share of gross profit .
If you are saying that the club could have survived the answer is that yes if it was purely to be an employer of 1 or 2 people and a vehicle for collecting vat so that parish purchases could benefit from this then yes its utopia .
However in reality the place not only needs investment and thats of a serious nature but also professional management to even attempt to make it work . There is a lot of people who dont understand the real reasons for the crusade anti anything positive and this is why we have the current split and situation with over 90% of the membership not knowing wha! ts really happenning .
I Congratulate the orchestraters of these actions as they have succeeded in causing disruption but in the long term the parish will suffer as the legal bill for creating and doing what is right shall be footed by it concerned of nottingham
a kowalczyk
nottingham
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Polish Catholic Club in Nottingham
To the previous "worried person". I think that you have slightly confused your terms.
The Polish Club is/was the bar and the membership. The club is currently closed. The Club has never been or owned any building. I presume that you are referring to the Polish Catholic Centre.
All Clubs operating from PBF premises needed to separate from the charity (ie. the parish) to fulfill the legal requirements. This included the need to pay rent to the parish.
In Nottingham the situation was different in the fact that there was a drive to 'privatise' the club without going through the proper procedures. In the first instance an extraordinary general meeting of all parishioners should have been called in order to explain the situation and problems along with possible solutions.
A second important aspect is the misconception that the whole polish catholic centre belongs to 'the church'. Please read the 1952 trust deed and you will see that religion is only one aspect of the PBF's role. (It is understandable why the clergy want to be seen as playing the first fiddle. We are not in Poland however!)
Nobody opposes the requirements of the Charity Commission for the need to separate.
The opposition is to privatisation and in particular the methods that have been used. Many believe that a viable club can still be run by the community for the community. The licence application on the 16th was not for an extended licence but for a new licence for the new proprietor. I am sure that the judge was not confused.
It is only proper that no license is issued for as long as there is significant opposition within the polish community.
I would suggest that you read financial statements of the club for the last few years and then make up your own mind.
Jacek T.Poniatowski
Nottingham
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The Polish CATHOLIC Club, Nottingham
I would like to start off this message by saying that the Polish CATHOLIC Club in Nottingham is not shut.
The priest has shut the BAR due to there being defecit in last year and the fact that the Parish was subsudising the bar.
The Club, is still very much OPEN.
The Polish Supplementary School is open as usual every Saturday morning. The Polish Scouting Group have their meetings on a Friday evening and a Saturday morning, and there are also functions in the club for example: the Polish Scouts are having their fundraising disco on May 8th.
Above all the Church is open as usual.
As far as I can see, noone has done anything wrong in Nottingham. He is a "soldier on the front line." This basically means, he does what he is told to do.
Imagine for a minute that you are the owner of a business, and you tell a worker of yours to do something on your behalf. If they don't do it, they would get a warning or even get fired. This is exactly what happened in October '03.
The Rector told the Priest to shut the bar, and people refused to leave so he had to call the Police to remove these people.
On the subject of opening the Bar. The EXTENDED liscense was taken to the court on the 16th of April '04 (as far as I remember). This means that by the 25th the Bar could have been "stocked up" and re-opened.
However there is a group called "KOK" or "Comittee to Save the Club" (a rough English translation) that went to court on that day in protest and confusing the Judge so much, that the court has been adjourned until the 20th/21st of July!!
"kok" is the same group that called the meeting in the Stage Hotel and that ran the "AGM" last week. This group seems to be the problem, and fighting would be an uphill struggle, but I say all the Polish people that want the bar opening soon, should perhaps think properly over the whole situation, checking that it still makes sense to them, because it sure doesn't make sense to me!!
A worried person in the Polish community, that wants the bar open!
Nottingham
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The Polish Benevolent Fund
A great masterstroke was played by the previous Rector of the PCM in the early 1990's, when uniform constitutions were UNILATERALLY IMPOSED on all Polish communities.
Some had the wisdom and foresight to reject these outright and have stuck to their guns. (A part of this "reform" was to ORDER all parishes to transfer their funds to a branch of a bank in Islington (albeit retaining seperate accounts for each parish))
Inevitably these new rules gave a virtually blank cheque for all clergy to do as they like including control over finances.
This was all based on the misconception that all property etc of the communities belonged to "THE CHURCH". If you take time to read the trust deed, you will find that this is not the case. The PBF has aims other than religion as well. (Here we do differ to the English diocese)
I undestand the critical sentiments of previous contributors to these pages criticising the Polish clergy. This is difficult to argue against. Please give some credit however to those priests who have managed to integrate into the communities and culture and are doing a grand job. (The mission should insist for example that all priests are able to communicate in English. This is not an option, but a job requirement.)
The Rector and Mr J SS would be wise to listen and take notice of people whose views are different to theirs otherwise they might find that disgruntled Polish communities might repossess what is still rightfully theirs and then they (PBF/PCM) become an irrelevance. Remember that the church is not the hierarchy but the people! The clergy are there not to rule but to serve!
Marek
Wimbledon
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Closure of club in Nottingham
Seeing as you are from Coventry you should know that the trouble actually stems from there. We were blessed with the transfer of your president, who together with the PBF closed the club down so that since October and in the near future it appears that the club will be closed.
Ex happy polak in Nottingham
Nottingham
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PBF/Polish Catholic Mission
The polish catholic mission in England and Wales has badly failed the polish communities when it comes to the provision of suitable 'shepherds'. We all know that a priest has an unenviable job not made easier by some grossly outdated 'job requirements'. We must remember that they are just ordinary human beings with strengths and weeknesses.
The role of the mission and in particular that of the rector is to monitor the situation and to react appropriately to reports of problems. Sometimes it may be necessary to move a priest on for his own good and the good of the parish.
The attitude of the mission is to keep those priests in post regardless and to help them to "assert their authority".
Romek Kowalczyk
Birmingham
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PBF Action
Does anyone monitor the PBF? I'm thinking of organisations which would look carefully at what in theory PBF are meant to be doing and whether in reality this is being done.
I have read some very interesting comments on this notice board. Why is there such limited contact between the Trustees and the Beneficiaries?
Maybe there should be a QUESTION AND ANSWER facility available whereby the beneficiaries ask the questions and the PBF trustees answer them and then someone can mark the Trustees answers and give a percentage of correct answers. A bit like what happens in schools and colleges, or even in The Parable of Sheep and Goats, when people are judged at the end of the world.
Trustees and Polish clergy should remember these words "Whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me" [MATTHEW 25:40] Maybe that should be the motto for the PBF, after all, it somehow fits in with the objects of the 1952 Trust Deed, and would! be applicable to Polish communities in such places as Stoke? (and Liverpool and Nottingham)
A concerned beneficiary
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Polish Priests etc
In my comments I agree with you and say that I wasnt getting at the Catholic Religion per se, but at the Polish Priests in general. What can a young priest have to say in the pulpit about life to those parishioners who are still living who have survived concentration and slave labour camps.
My writing here about them has more or less endorsed what people in other parts of the country think about them. That is to say that not all of them are the same. They are some genuine ones. But most of them think that the parish is there to serve them in every way possible...mainly pecuniary.
When I look at the 'end of year' parish Income/Expenses statement, 99% of the expense is in the priest's personal pocket or disguised as some 'Special Collection'.
Despite all the rhetoric about the PBF, they still ingratiate themselves on those people who pay 'covenants' or 'Gift Aid'.
The 8.5% administration fee of this voluntary fund goes to the PBF whether you like it or n! ot! . Is this justifiable????
Liverpoolski Chlop
Liverpool
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Closure of club in Nottingham
Seeing as you are from Coventry you should know that the trouble actually stems from there. We were blessed with the transfer of your president, the holy father who together with the PBF closed the club down so that since October and in the near future it appears that the club will be closed.
Ex happy polak in Nottingham
Nottingham
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PBF action
I would quickly like to point this out in the case of the Nottingham Polish club. Could somebody explain if this has been done?
Section 26(3) of the Law of Property Act 1925. The trustees must consult with the beneficiaries "in the exercise of any function relating to the land subject to the trust".
This presumably means, for example, that the trustees must consult the beneficiaries concerned before taking any decision whatsoever relating to the land.
A Polish beneficiary in Nottingham
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re. PBF and the black mafia
The PBF is not just there to serve the church, and is even stated so in its trust deeds.
However, it has been quoted by members of the clergy that the Polish clubs are the property of the church. They believe that the PBF is the church.
I do not particularly think its a matter of bleeding parafia, but rather something more sinister such as the land grab of the buildings. They'll bleed you dry, but what happens after all the funds have gone. Is there a property left?
If you try to stop it, you're a trouble maker, further more if the moral fight is lost, you will try dirty tactics. How very christian!!!!
Please do not confuse the catholic religion with the Polish Catholic Church. Their actions speak for themselves. Long have gone the times, where I have listened to the "diably" behind a polonia catholic church pulpit. Long has gone the time where the Polish priests in the UK have respect.
Our forefathers would have a fit if they realised what is happening to the hard work they have put in is being used as a pension fund for retired priests, taking a few for example, who sleep with women, are drunkards, pick fights with their flock.
So before you believe you Polish club or community is safe, think of whether or not the buildings were given in trust to the PBF.
If so, don't believe your parish is safe.
Jan Kowalski
Krakow, Polska
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Polish community centre, Nottingham
I would just like to enlighten everyone on the dismal situation here in Nottingham.
As a Polish football team member, I now have no Polish place to go for a quick drink after my weekly sporting Polish football activities. Why is it closed and how is this going to benefit the young members of the community???
How are other Polish centres coping or are your clubs still open? We want an inter Polish football operation so as to develop our talent to its full potential. Removing the facility will do nothing else other than move the young Polish people away from their grass roots.
A keen footballer
Nottingham
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PBF & 'The Black Mafia'
I agree with you. Post PBF any priests who have landed in Liverpool were sadly lacking in their duties of 'shepherd'. The are more interested in bleeding the 'parafia' of the remaining funds they have collected over the years. I mean it's their responsibility as priests to bring the flock together. The present one advocates that Polish people go to English Churches. So, what is he there for???
Have you ever seen a hungry and poor priest.
Disillusioned
Liverpool
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Re: Polish Benevolent Fund
Would it be possible to find out which Polish clubs are held in trust by the PBF?
I have a feeling that some larger Polish community club buildings such as Machester,Birmingham, Leicester and Bradford would at the very least be under threat.
Secondly, I understand that the PBF holds these buildings in trust. Correct me if I am wrong, this does not mean that they own them. As a result, can't local Polish communities simply demand their buildings back?
Thirdly, where does the £2.05m of income they spend go to, and approximately why is £170k spent on admin a year (source: charities direct.com, based on 8.3% of income of 2.05m?)
If Mr Sikora Sikorski still thinks that the PBF cannot service the most meagre demands of the local polish communities, I smell something...
Robert Kozlowski
Manchester
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reply to Jacek
We all want to know what is happening to the Polish Catholic Centre. The RC priest came from Coventry, so maybe you know him. We always regarded Nottingham as a thriving Polish community, but the situation is more like a nightmare every week that passes. One of the worst nightmares I had was when police cars arrived at the centre in October '03, after a phone call to them by the priest and the policemen were expecting a riot, but instead found a social gathering of Poles of all ages who on request quietly left their premises.
It seems that no one wants to take responsibility for this action, neither the priest nor the chairman of PBF. But who suffers? The weakest in society, as is often the case.
a devastated Polka
Nottingham
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reply to Joe from Liverpool
Interesting news from Liverpool, thank you.
The words 'toil and sweat' are spot on, the people post 2nd world war know exactly what you mean, it is a pity that for some of the RC priests, those words are alien to them.
They arrived on the doorsteps of the Polish centres, everything was handed to them 'on a plate', yet very few understand their 'flock' and the true meaning of their role as 'shepherd'.
Maybe the Polish Catholic Mission should enlighten them and themselves, they are all there to serve others and not to be served, whilst the PBF Trustees should read the 1952 Trust Deed and the Charity Commission guidelines. Happy reading!
One of many beneficiaries still 'alive and kicking'
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Polish Catholic Centre in Nottingham
I am confused, the Sherwood Rise Conservation Group held its annual meeting at the centre in January, yet the Polish people had to have their meeting at a nearby hotel as they were locked out; it would be good news if the RC priest helped his people out, was he away on some mission work abroad?
Because I read that his spokesman did all the talking to the Post.
a Nottingham Evening Post reader
Notts
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Polish Benevolent Fund
Just to add a few points about what has happened in Liverpool.
Yes we had a Polish Club built by the toil and sweat by those who came over here since WW2. But since the PBF got involved with the Polish Community affairs, they basically took over our centre and turned it into a residential home for everyone (Pole & non-Pole) - and for what?
This happened over 20 years ago and since then their hasnt been a Polish Club in Liverpool.
The PBF has a lot to answer for in my opinion. They destroyed a whole community which had taken 30 years to build up. I have no sympathy for them and those that are associated with them (what I call the Black Mafia). In the eyes of the remaining desimated community the priests have a lot to answer for as well.
Dont let the PBF get their hands on your Polish Club/Community Centre.
I believe there will be a resurgence of interest for the Polish Clubs once Poland enters the European Community on 1st May.
Joe Bielawski
Liverpool
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Re: Polish Catholic Centre in Nottingham
Can somebody tell me what's happening to the Polish Catholic Centre in Nottingham. I went there for a drink on Saturday and it was shut down. I always thought Nottingham was a thriving Polish community, so why is there no club?
Jacek Malewicz
coventry
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re:anonymous polka message
Anonymous polka, I would read the message again. Obviously you just don't get the point. I totally whole heartly agree with the strategy the PBF is taking.
Why should the PBF be burdened with the cost of charitable acts to polish community in the uk and Polish cultural preservation?
What have these old people ever done for us apart from give PBF the buildings, the funds to build or buy the churches, fought in the second world war?
They should note that charity is one of the holy virtues and live in the knowledge that the church is truly provided for. As the church would say, Serdecznie Bog Zaplac
Glupi Polak
Krakow, Polska
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re:anonymous polka message
I think Glupi polak, was bringing out the irony of the PBF's move.
Glupi Polak's friend
Krakow, Polska
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The polish community
I agree entirely with the message. It makes me feel angry that there are people, who want to turn the Polish Club into a business enterprise.
The Polish Club was originally created by the Polish people as their regular meeting point. The Clubs were intended to be a social service and certainly NOT a money spinning idea for some "get rich quick" businessman.
anonymous angry polka
somewhere in England
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Polish Benevolent Fund
I was interested to read the comments on this page, given the context of the objects clause of the Polish Benevolent Funds Trust Deed - paragraph 3.
There is no explicit object stating that the PBF must or even should look after the Polish elderly, so I suppose Pan Prez Sikora is technically right in denying this part of the Polish community any even in-kind, Benefit.
However, the question should be asked, whose money is he saving, and for whom is this saved money destined? The answer is actually for all to see in the accounts of PBF, when they eventually get round to filing them. They are available for public inspection.
I leave it up to each interested member of the Polish community to inspect those accounts and see where the PBF spends its annual ca 2million income.
GabrielczykJJ
Warsaw
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Re: Glupi Polak message
I am totally disappointed with your attitude towards the Polish Clubs in the UK.
The Polish people fought for YOU in the 2nd World War. The older Polish generation were forced to leave their homes in Poland. It is this generation that set up the PBF so your argument does not hold any water. The "old people" have sacrificed a great deal in their lives and YOU are simply ungrateful!
anonymous polka
somewhere in England
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polish community
''So many Polish people have worked solidly and voluntarily for years since late 1940's to build and support Polish communities and now we appear to be getting the UNKNOWN gremlins who have made insignificant contributions to the Polish communities and organizations yet support those who do not have the people's interests at heart. What are their real interests?
Is it just money and other ulterior motives?
Maybe they should read ''The Emperor's new clothes'' again and again to see the light, before it is too late!
We will always remember those good people who made sacrifices for future generations and who sadly are no longer with us.
polka
somewhere in England
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PBF payments
Is it true the PBF recently paid approximatley £68,000 to the catholic church in Poland? How many day care workers could that have employed?
Disgruntled Polish War Veteran
Stoke-on-Trent
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Polish style "Hooters" on the Horizon???
I don't know if this is true or not, but I heard there are plans in the air to turn all polish clubs in the UK held by the PBF into a chain of "Hooters" style restaurants? Can Mr Sikora-Sikorski confirm this.
If so this is another genius masterstroke played by the PBF. The mouth watering prospect of an influx of beautiful girls from Poland (renouned as some of the most beautiful in the world of which there is going to be an abudance of after May 1) wearing nothing but thong bikinis while serving families with the traditional barszcz and pierogi, and Wyborowa is just fantastic.
Mr Sikora-Sikorski, if this is true, could you also make as a prerequisite to these new clubs, a lap dancing/table dancing facility (instead of a traditional striptease). This would make the theme of these new clubs (backed by the PBF), a modern Polish cabaret.
Jan Kowalski
London
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Charitable actions of the PBF
I totally whole heartly agree with the strategy the PBF is taking. Why should the PBF be burdened with the cost of charitable acts to polish community in the uk and Polish cultural preservation?
What have these old people ever done for us apart from give PBF the buildings, the funds to build or buy the churches, fought in the second world war?
They should note that charity is one of the holy virtues and live in the knowledge that the church is truly provided for.
As the church would say, Serdecznie Bog Zaplac
Glupi Polak
Krakow, Polska
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Polish Catholic Centre in Nottingham
Read the article in nottingham evening post(21st feb 2004); I am 18 and i want my club back please.
Lucia Price
nottingham
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Polish Parish Centre - a public statement by the Trustees
The Polish Parish Centre in Longton was built up by the collective efforts of generations of Poles over a long period of time and its ownership is held on trust by the Polish Benevolent Fund Charitable Trust which represents the Polish Catholic Mission in England and Wales. The Polish Parish Centre as represented by the Parish Priest and Parish committee, was first to provide day care facilities to Poles several years ago in Longton. This it did for a period of 3 years after it had received a grant. When this grant finished, a separate group of Polish individuals - independent of the Polish Parish, came to an agreement with the Parish to continue the day care centre. This group the NSPDCC, obtained funding and the Parish was happy to be able to support fellow Poles through the continued provision of day care centre facilities working with the NSPDCC. In the normal process of renewing agreements the Parish wanted the NSPDCC to continue their work within the Parish , nonetheless we were unable to agree the most modest of terms with them - this ,whilst having concerns as to their budget. In particular the high level of salaries they were paying to amongst others themselves. The NSPDCC have walked away from the Parish`s proposals. Should they wish to reinstate talks about coming to an agreement with the Parish then the Parish would be only too willing to participate. The Polish Catholic Mission in England and Wales is proud of its continuing pastoral and charitable work amongst Poles and in particular serving its ageing community through many individual initiatives including local charitable action groups.
Janusz Sikora-Sikorski
Chairman of the Board of Trustees, Polish Benevolent Fund Charitable Trust
See BBC News story about the day-care controversy |
Reply to Zbigniew Paziou
There is this place in Stoke: Polish Catholic Centre 1 Battison Crescent, Trentham Rd, Longton, Stoke-On-Trent, Staffordshire ST3 4DS. Tel: 01782 312864
Unfortunatly this place is on its last legs and is unlikely to be around for much longer. There did used to be a daycare centre there for the old folks but the Polish Benevolent Fund, who own the building, have had to charge for the use of the building. If there are any Poles in Stoke on Trent who would like to meet me there for a beer and maybe annoy the PBF by keeping the place going a little longer, then please leave a message.
Jurek Biegus
Stoke on Trent
See BBC News story about the day-care controversy |
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