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 Tuesday, 7 January, 2003, 10:21 GMT
Should Six Nations be seeded?
Should the Six Nations be seeded?
All Blacks legend Zinzan Brooke says a seeding system in the Six Nations would maintain the excitement "from start to finish".

Do you think the Six Nations should be revamped?


Brooke told BBC Sport Online this season's tournament will be over after the first game between France and England at Twickenham.

"Whoever wins, has wrapped up the championship - a seeding system would keep the excitement running until the last game." Brooke said.

Can the championship take further changes and would seeding make the tournament predictable?

Does the Six Nations need an overhaul?


This debate is now closed. A selection of your e-mails appears below.


There is no need to fix something that isn't broken. Every rugby fan looks forward to the Six Nations, even if there is a clear favourite. If there is, that just ups the ante for the other nations to overcome them.

Even towards the end of the series when more often than not, the league has been decided; we still see fans turn out in droves at the stadiums and the pubs to watch games. What does that say about the format of the tournament? It says it works.
Dicky, London UK

I've never ever sat down to a Six Nations game and thought the outcome is decided. We've seen too many upsets where supposed Grand Slam winners have been defeated (Zinzan, read your Six Nations history), that's why the tournament is so exciting and we all love it.
Simon, England

Brooke's idea of seeding is fantastic

Stuart Sankey, England

We are starting to follow the USA where everything must be exciting and reach a climatic conclusion so the rules are changed to ensure it. What next? Staggered starts in athletics to ensure that everybody crosses the line together? Tie Arsenal's laces together to that Farnborough have a better chance? Actually, I quite like that idea.
David Priddy, UK

As a rugby fan I'm fascinated as to how England and France will start this year's championship. With France putting out 'B' teams against Scotland, Wales and ourselves, the big one may well be at Landsdowne, but who knows?

With too many eyes on the World Cup, wheels could easily come off wagons. Maybe Zinzan should put more effort into making sure the All Blacks don't send 'B' teams up here on tour.

Seems a lot of southern hem players can't understand or adjust to Ireland beating the Ozzies and England cleaning up this year, maybe the 'small' three should be seeded and have a play-off to see who can play us lot!!!
Monty, Ireland

Brooke's idea of seeding is fantastic. I don't understand why it hasn't been adopted yet. Rugby is a game where the less able teams very rarely cause upsets, unlike football, and so more excitement needs to be created.
Stuart Sankey, England

There has been too much messing about with the tournament already - silly kick-off times, Sunday matches, etc, which all undermine a great tradition which is savoured by all true rugby fans. The game is more important than blinkered financial expediency.
John Evans, Wales

It would be a shame to change a great tradition

Andrew, Aussie in London

I agree with Zinzan's suggestion. The biggest likely clash is scheduled to be the first game. It should be the last. In '98 I saw Ireland play England at Twickenham in the last game when it was a foregone conclusion. England won and the game felt like an anti-climax to the championship.
Mark Nicholson, UK

Sometimes you just have to stop modernising and reforming for the sake of it. Personally, I don't think the Six Nations needs to adapt because the 'formula' already provides excitement. Comments about the cyclical nature of the tournament hold true and the previous three seasons have shown that the last weekend is always exciting.
James Gurd, England

Why the need for seedings? There is enough history and passion in the tournament to ensure that matches remain compulsive viewing no matter what sort of prize is on offer.

Perhaps Zinzan is just frustrated at the amount of meaningless matches played in the Southern Hemisphere, where passion has already been sacrificed for television's dollar.
Will, England

It would be a shame to change a great tradition. We antipodeans have been brought up on finals series and Grand Finals so we see them as being the ultimate goal. Over here being the team at the top of the league has always been the goal and it's only recently that the concept of 'finals' has been introduced by administrators who want to squeeze every last drop of money out of the game.

I imagine there will be just as many people watching to see if Ireland stuff up England's Grand Slam as there would be if England played France on the last weekend. Zinzan's idea has merit but some traditions should be kept alive.
Andrew, Aussie in London

The unpredictability of the present format is one of its strengths

Mike, England

It pains me to agree with a New Zealander, but I agree that it is time to abandon the 'friendly fixture syndrome' from international rugby. Perhaps we should consider setting handicaps to make the games more competitive?
Brian Dodd, England

Seems like a good idea on the face of it, but let us not forget, that that on numerous occasions during the last 15 years, the result has been decided on the last day, often a Celtic side beating England!!! This makes the Six Nations special.

Assuming England beat France, then that still gives the Celts three chances to stop England though they never seem so keen to stop France! Obviously if England loose ... then Vie La France!
Martin M, Bournemouth, England

As a few other contributors have already mentioned the unpredictability of the present format is one of its strengths. There is no real need for a seeding system as past results have shown, particularly England's failure to land the Grand Slam thanks to Wales, Scotland, Ireland and France in recent years.

If you try to distil it to an England v France finale every year my opinion is much of the magic will disappear and the shocks we often get may diminish. If it aint broke, don't fix it. Poor old Zinzan is just trying to get some publicity, does he want a TV job or has he got a book coming out!
Mike, England

Nothing wrong with it as it is. But there is a real need to increase the involvement of emerging nations somehow. How can Georgia, Russia, Spain, and Holland, etc, develop if no one ever watches them play?
Mickeyboy, England

Zinzan Brooke has become the David Campese of NZ rugby

Greg, Australia

Zinzan has obviously not noticed that the last game of the Six Nations could actually be the crunch match - England vs Ireland in Dublin. I would expect England to beat France at Twickenham, but Lansdowne Road is a different matter.

Don't meddle with something that works. Otherwise you'll end up with a cheap plastic commercialised bauble, where before you have a shining gem of the rugby calendar.
Puja, England

Zinzan Brooke has become the David Campese of NZ rugby. I doubt that there is any chance of a change to the Six Nations in the foreseeable future. Brooke is just stirring the pot.
Greg, Australia

With regard to the emerging nations the idea of introducing them to the Six Nations is not without merit. However to suggest that they supplant the lowest placed team would be self defeating as this could easily be any of the current teams.

If it was England or Scotland what then? No Calcutta Cup? It would be better to allow the winner to join for a season until they can show they are of sufficiant calibre to justify a permenant place.
Jeremy, England

These ideas are always suggested when a team happen to be enjoying a good spell in form. It's wonderful that France and England have had success over the last decade or so but I suggest you all calm down and enjoy your just rewards.

Meanwhile, prepare for a change in fortune which will inevitably come and leave the tournament alone. It's been going fine since the 1880's so just leave it be.
Mark Fitzsimmons, Dubai, UAE

Zinzan Brooke - a living legend but not English, Scottish, Welsh, Irish, French or Italian so how can he feel the passion like we do about our annual tournament.

I think that most of the detractors have not actually read Brooke's plan

Stephen Geraghty, England

Zinzan, worry about what is happening there and leave us alone. We are doing ok here at the moment and do not need your help.
The Flounder, England

A seeded Six Nations would be better. It's depressing to think that the tournament can be decided in the first few games. Seeded games would guarantee crowds throughout the tournament.
Matthew Dillingham, Scotland

I'm not sure about the seeding of the tournament, but why not introduce a second division containing the likes of Romania, Russia, Georgia, Spain and Portugal, with promotion and relegation between the two divisions.
Rob, England

I think that most of the detractors have not actually read Brooke's plan. It is quite plain that the seeding is nothing more than a set way of generating the fixture list, i.e. on the first weekend whichever team finished top will play whichever team finished bottom, second place will play fifth and so on.

This seems to be a sensible suggestion, how the fixtures are worked out now are a total mystery to most people.
Stephen Geraghty, England

A subtle change like this is needed to keep the Six Nations at the forefront of the rugby calendar

Gareth Roberts, England

If you have the proposed seeding and matches go as expected, then only one match on the last day has any relevance.

If, the schedule is random then it is more likely that at least two of the last three matches will have some relevance, will draw bigger television audiences and give the other teams something to play for, even if it is only the respect gained from being the team that stopped 'x' from winning the championship.

Leave the Six Nations alone.
Keith L, UK

Without seeding this year, assuming England beat France and Ireland beat Scotland on the opening day, a massive climax in Dublin could occur. England in search of another, probably elusive, grand slam. It could be a Grand Slam winner takes all game.
David FitzGerald, UK

The plan put forward by Zinzan Brooke seems to be a good one, in the sense that it will maintain interest over the entire duration of the tournament. A subtle change like this is needed to keep the Six Nations at the forefront of the rugby calendar.
Gareth Roberts, England

The so-called best side in the world have had their chances of a Grand Slam thwarted in the last four seasons. All the Celtic nations have contributed to this. The predictability of the Five, now Six Nations, is its unpredictability.
Chris, Wales

It is such a short term view, ignoring the cyclical nature of teams fortunes.

William Syms, England

An extremely sensible idea that would take nothing to implement and would keep the excitement alive to the last game of the season. This does not belittle any of the other nations as the opportunity to turn over the top two sides will always be there.
Steve Perry, UK

I think the tournament should not change. The championship may be settled early, but as the awesome Grand Slam matches at Cardiff, Murrayfield and Lansdowne Road have shown, the tournament has plenty to offer. Zinzan has forgotten the home advantage passion and looked at these fixtures from too clinical a view.
Julian, USA

Don't mess with the format anymore. It is the best annual rugby championship in the world. I think that if Zinzan had ever played in such a tournament with such a colourful history (And future) then he would want it left alone.

England and France are on top at the moment, but that can all change. France were shocking two seasons ago, and England still can't win that Grand Slam. Wales will come back, Ireland have come back and Scotland are always capable of a brilliant performance.
George, Wales

It is such a short term view, ignoring the cyclical nature of teams fortunes.
William Syms, England

It is a league system, not a knock out tournament.

Jonathan Michaud
At the moment the Grand Slam is the only true goal for the teams. With a seeding system the probability of the final match deciding who wins it is greatly increased. I see few cons to outweigh all the pros.
Ned, UK

Clear off Brooke! The tournament has already been degraded by changing kick-off times and days and the creation of a meaningless championship table!

The Triple Crown and Grand Slam are what's important!
Mike Houghton, Wales

I don't agree with seeding the Six Nations. It is a league system, not a knock out tournament. There is always an upset during the championship that messes up England or France.
Jonathan Michaud

Seems like a small change for a good benefit. Why not give it a go?

Nick Simons, UK

The only reason we are discussing this is because England play France in the first week and TV bosses are worried about figures tailing off.
Paul , England

Zinzan Brooke is dead right. With the format already spread across so many weeks it lacks the intensity of other major sporting events. With seeding you get a real feel of increasing pressure and tension until the men are sorted out from the boys.
Simon James, UK

Seems like a small change for a good benefit. Why not give it a go?
Nick Simons, UK

I would take this a step further, let Georgia, Romania, Spain and Russia have their own championship with the winner playing the bottom seed from the Six Nations for their place. I can't see why Italy should be given a regular place over other emerging European nations, at the moment it's a closed shop and stifles development.
Ham, England

This seems a great idea. I completely agree that the final weekend must be the climax to the competition so as to avoid the situation we had in Dublin a couple of years ago, when England lost the match but collected the Six Nations Cup in a very muted prize giving.
Roland Cherry, England

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See also:

07 Jan 03 | International
31 Dec 02 | International
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