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Wednesday, 31 October, 2001, 18:58 GMT
Are league converts ready for the big time?
Do Harris and Paul really have what it takes to be stars in union?
Henry Paul is called up to the England squad four days after his Gloucester debut, while Iestyn Harris gets the call from Wales following his brilliant Heineken Cup bow for Cardiff.

But are they ready after just one game?

HAVE YOUR SAY

Both players were expected to take some time to adapt to union after moving south from rugby league.

However, Harris racked up 31 points against Glasgow, while Paul weighed in with 28 in his side's 98-14 demolition of Caerphilly.

Although both men played down their performances, Wales coach Graham Henry has wasted no time in calling up Harris for the November Test matches.

England coach Clive Woodward has now followed suit and Paul, capped 24 times by New Zealand at league, will be in the squad to face Australia next month.

But are Harris and Paul ready for the big time?

HAVE YOUR SAY


Why not accept that the two codes are similar (but different) games? I prefer union but accept that some people prefer the 13 a side code. What does intrigue me is why RL fans seem to have such enormous chips on their shoulders.

Always quite happy to make snide remarks about supposed lesser skill levels in union, but would no doubt jump at my throat if I were to ask why they bother to have a scrum? It's only a game...
Mark, UK

The performances of ex-rugby league players such as Robinson, Harris, Paul and Booth have shown that the level of skills required to play Rugby Union must be very low indeed. There may be more money in the game at the top but surely any player wanting a challenge must play the much more demanding game of rugby league.
Nick Evans, UK


Paul should not be playing for England in any code
Brian, Australia

What's with everyone throwing all the insults? League maybe harder than union, but I doubt it. What's significant is that high-profile league players have come over because union at international level outshines league. Union is more popular and holds greater prizes like the Six Nations trophy and World Cup. What does league really have? The Silk Cup and the Grand Final at club level. The World Cup was a joke.
Tom, Bradford

Both Iestyn and Henry are quality Rugby players. As both have proved themselves consistently at the top of the Rugby Super League, then of course they can move into the less demanding arena of international Union. It's a bit like wondering whether David Beckham could make the transition from Manchester Utd and England to the Rose & Crown Sunday morning team.
Jack Frost, England

Harris the finest stand-off in the Northern Hemisphere? Don't think so! Henry Paul will be missed, he IS the finest stand-off in the Northern Hemisphere, Iestyn was never more than slightly above average. The Welsh love-affair with him will soon end when they see him moaning at the ref every five minutes.
Rob, England

Paul should not be playing for England in any code. Eligibilty rules in just about any sport heavily favour the countries of the UK and need to be addressed. Aren't you guys embarrassed in having to call up overseas nationals to bolster you very average local sporting talent.
Brian, Australia


Paul and Harris show just how superior the league player still is
Simon , Bradford
The supposedly superior code has chosen converts for their national teams within days of their first games. Would this occur so quickly if a Union player had converted to League? The answer would be a clear No.
Patrick McNeela, England

After all the hype of Union being the better game and having more money, more technicalities, last weekend shows what a load of tosh that is. Not only did Paul and Harris show just how superior the league player still is, a has been like Sullivan blitzes the shambolic opposition and gets an International callup too.
Simon , Bradford

Having watched Henry Paul at Bradford for the last three years, I want to wish him well for his future in rugby union. He has many natural talents to make him a success at both codes. Having said that, Bradford Bulls were by no means a one man team, and I believe that next year the Bulls will be even stronger without Henry.

In a similar way, Wigan didn't really miss Jason Robinson, they improved after he left last year. The story at Leeds Rhinos is different, as they were more dependent on Iestyn Harris.
Henry, Yorkshire


Neither player is ready for international union just yet, but it will not be long
Alan, England

Who cares. Iestyn was God for Cardiff last week and I am pretty sure he will be the Devil at some point in the future. All players, no matter how talented, have good days and bad, and whether they play league or union doesn't matter. They are both quite different games that require different skills in certain positions.

Some players find both easy to master, some will find it impossible. I am just glad that we have managed to nab someone from Leeds to play for Cardiff who fits into the first category! May the good times roll on, and may we win the European Cup (I can dream can't I!).
Jules, Wales

Edd cannot seem to think of a league forward who could make it into the England union team. How about the best ball handling "big man" in rugby (both codes), Andy Farrell. And to boot, he is adept and adaptable enough to play practically any position.
Duncan, England

I would just like to respond to John's sly dig at my arguement about good players excelling in both codes. This should not be an arguement over which game is better, so stop slinging insults. I'd love to stay and argue but I im off to Paris, Milan and Madrid. And you, well you get to drive along the M62 again! Ooh, lucky you!
Jonathan R, England

Wales are desperate for someone to inject some life at number 10 and should throw Harris in. However, with England having more strength in depth I expect that Paul will be brought into the England set-up gradually, in the same way as Jason Robinson was brought in last year.
Ed, England


Neither player is ready for international union just yet, but it will not be long
Alan, England

Some of these comments seem to be very blinkered. Both players are natural athletes who have a very special quality. Neither player is ready for international union just yet, but it will not be long. They were hardly tested this weekend, but time will provide these tests and both players may well prosper.
Alan, England

Henry Paul and Iestyn Harris are being talked about at present as if they have already conquered rugby union and have achieved a high degree of success. Sorry to disappoint, but they have a hell of a lot to do yet. And these guys freely admit that, but a lot of the people writing in to this column have simply ignored it.

They haven't played for their national teams yet, thus haven't had a chance to play against the likes of New Zealand, Australia, or South Africa. Now I'm not saying they wouldn't do well, but until they do something of note, the jury has to remain out. Simple as that. Robinson is doing well, but he is still no better than Luger, Hickie, Lomu, Roff, Umaga (when he was playing on the wing), Tune, to name but a few.
Enda Craddock, Ireland


Why not pick Kris Radlinski for the Six Nations?
John, England

Why do league fans feel the need to criticise union so much? If you can't accept that Paul, Robinson and co are flourishing because they are just talented, rather than because of league's superiority, then you are rather narrow minded.

Top athletes have the physical and mental skills to perform in sports very similar to their own. To deny that top union players such as Balshaw, Healey, Dalaglio, Back, Roff, Lomu and others could flourish in league as well is foolish in the extreme.
Jon, UK

Steve from England misses my point: that several union players have converted to league, but in each case it took several years and not half a match. Many did play internationals eventually, but none had their wages paid by an international RL body from before they started training.

What may be inflammatory is that the truth be told about union: that it is far less complex and difficult than its supporters preach. It is much less demanding than league, which is why these two find it embarrassingly easy.

So why not pick Kris Radlinski for the Six Nations? He doesn't need to play union to be better than Balshaw or Perry.
John, England

Surely any patriotic person would want to see the best players to represent their country. Forget all the politics.
Malik, England


Harris and Paul are undoubtably the cream of talent, and would fit into any team
Steve, England

How many rugby union players would make a debut in a Super League team and break the points scoring record? There's not a single union player good enought to play for a top 10 Super League team.

What people seem to forget is that Henry and Iestyn aren't the best league players. There are many youngsters waiting in the wings that have the potential to be better. This is the reason we don't need big name union players, the talent coming through is immense. I don't want to slag off union, but it isn't as hard a game to play. It's very watchable but I'm just sick of hearing that it is hard to master, is complex and too tactical compared to league. For complex, read restrictive and obscure. For tactical, read kicking for territory. Real tactics are the ability to unlock defences using guile and ingenuity. The very atributes that are not stifled by league laws.
Nick Cartwright, England

John from England seems to have conveniently forgotten the number of ball-handling football players that league used to buy from union teams, who then went on to represent their country. Back in the late 80s early 90s, there was an entire ex-Welsh rugby union team brought into league. And let's not forget the likes of Offiah and Tait - and even Will Carling had offers to 'go north'.

I have no doubt that most league teams would welcome players like Dallaglio, Healey, Richard Hill, Howley, Dafydd James, Gareth Thomas, etc. with open arms. Robinson, Harris and Paul are undoubtably the cream of talent, and would fit into any team, in any form of rugby, so why make inflammatory comments when there's really no need?
Steve, England


They've just left the big time to play rugby union!
Steve May, UK

Bickering is the word! To say one is 'better' than the other is ridiculous. Players of the quality of Harris and Paul will thrive because they're class. This transition has worked in both directions and long may it continue. It adds to the interest of both sports. Vive la rugby, full stop.
David Evans, England

Are Wales' big name converts ready for the big time? They've just left the big time to play rugby union! I think these converts are showing that, in terms of on-field play, there is only one code that counts.

By the way, anyone know who scored all the "other" points for Cardiff this weekend? That would be Anthony Sullivan - another RL man. I never knew rugby union was a two-a-side game!
Steve May, UK

While I acknowledge that league players have things to offer union, it should be remembered that Robinson, Harris and Paul are the best that league has. Other players have not made the transition so well (Gary Connelly, Andy Northey). If the rules of union continue to change, with no rucks and mauls, then league players will make an impact.

Union players have gone to league in the past and made a success, John Devereux, Jonathan Davies, Scott Gibbs, Jim Fallon. Good ball players will always be good, whether league or Union. I have yet to see a league star born and bred that would play for England in the forwards.
Edd Barham, London


Paul and Harris look over-qualifed for their new jobs
John, England

Goodness: A petty, frightened, predictable, one-eyed, childish bigot! And all that just for pointing out that while the immensely talented Jonathan Davies took three years to learn league, Paul and Harris took 40 minutes between them to learn union. These two are desperately needed by their respective nations.

Playing rugby league made them what they are, and rugby union produced the players who will be discarded to accommodate them. That is the judgment of the RFU and WRU. No wonder they so urgently want other league players. If some of the contributors to this debate are not assessing the relative abilities needed to play these codes, then this is indeed sports talk without sports thought.

To assert that "backs are backs" or that Johnny Wilkinson would be ready to play international league after half a match is patently absurd. In contrast, Paul and Harris look over-qualifed for their new jobs.
John, England

Union does not need league and league does not need union. There are a few positions, mostly in the backs, that are similar in both codes. But could you imagine a burly rugby union prop being effective at league? and in reverse could you imagine a rugby league second row being adept in the art of the line out? I think not. Natural talent will always shine through and therefore Harris and Paul will prove themselves in union just as they have in league.
Stuart, England

Feel free to call me stupid if I'm wrong, but playing as a back in Union or in League must require virtually the same skills. Therefore if you're fast, strong, can tackle, pass and beat people then surely you would excel in both sports! Paul and Harris are the cream of the league crop, blessed with all the above skills so why shouldn't they excel? Johnny Wilkinson, Brian O'Driscoll and Jonah Lomu would walk into their country's league teams!
Jonathan R, England


The games are different, but a truly great rugby player will shine regardless
James, Yorkshire

Can we please have an end to this petty squabbling over whether union or league is the 'better' game. Both games share a common ancestry and, as a result, both have a number of common elements. Because of this, truly gifted play makers like Iestyn Harris (or Jonathan Davies) can shine in both codes.
Tom, England

A predictable response from the one-eyed bigots. Let's put it in perspective, Paul and Harris are natural sportsmen who would be phenomenal whether they were playing rugby or any other sport. Let's not assume that they've mastered union in 80 minutes.

I watched Henry Paul yesterday, he's got great talent, speed of both foot and hand, and can slot kicks over from anywhere, just like when he was at Bradford ! Judge him away at somewhere like Leicester in a few months time, not against a Caerphilly side who were the most shambolic team I've ever seen at Kingsholm.
Andy, Gloucester

I quite agree with Nathan Hamer that this column is turning into a childish name-calling "debate". The simple fact of the matter is that both codes will continue to produce brilliant players. The games are different, but a truly great rugby player will shine regardless. Both sides of the argument are perfectly understandable. It's only natural to feel threatened if you consider your favourite sport to be under attack from its cousin. It's only natural to want the best players to represent you internationally. So let's stop the hair pulling and enjoy both games, that's what I will be doing.
James, Yorkshire


A talented rugby player will be a success at either code, as has been seen many times with players crossing from union to league
John Hitchmough, England

In response to Nathan from Wales:

So union is currently so hugely blessed with talent even the "world champions" have to buy league players?

And so difficult, that a decent league player can become a Union International after one match? That was neglected in the list of union to league players below. Imagine the likes of Mike Catt playing twenty minutes league and lining up against the Kangaroos!!

Hypocrisy and arrogance: not even the decency to admit that it was playing league that created Harris and Paul, and much improved Davies, Bateman and the others. Meanwhile the RFU can only put out the hopeless incompetents who played in Dublin.
John, England

As one of the few people who appreciate both codes of rugby, I find it hard to believe the childishness of the people who write in. A talented rugby player will be a success at either code, as has been seen many times with players crossing from union to league. Very few have failed to impress. These players will succeed because of their immense skill and professionalism. Stop whining and learn to appreciate the skills that both games offer.
John Hitchmough, England

I don't mean to continue the petty, childish rivalry seemingly held between league and union within these pages, but I must respond to John from England who clearly does not pay attention to the sport, which he feels compelled to comment upon.

Union cannot produce "ball-handling, football players of its own" apparently. Well, let's see. Over the years, league was blessed with Jonathan Davies, John Deverux, Alan Tait, Scott Gibbs and Scott Quinnell, who all slip into that category quite nicely in my opinion. There are countless others, of course.

There are also many league players who have made an indelible mark on Union. Tuigamala is an obvious example, though I forget which code he actually started with. Jason Robinson has been a revelation. Any union team would kill for an Andy Farrell, for instance. Stop the bickering, people.
Nathan Hamer, Wales


Union desperately needs League players, because it cannot produce ball-handling footballing players of its own
John, England

It will be a crying shame if English Rugby League dies at the hands of Union. The odds are currently stacked against the short-sighted RFL, so we may see more and more players making the switch. For now it seems to be one way traffic, but it will only be a matter of time before the opposite effects are felt.

Once union holds all the cards, the RFL will pull their fingers out and we will see some big players making the opposite switch. The only thing that is for certain, however, is that the fat cats of English Rugby League are very uneasy about what the future holds.

And let's get a perspective on the quality of the players in the media - Harris is the finest standoff in the Northern hemisphere and Paul is one of the best antipodeans. I bet Jonny Wilkinson is glad lestyn considers himself to be Welsh!
James, Yorkshire

Not sure what John (below) is so threatened about. Perhaps it's the fact that union is clearly the most dominant and popular game!
Steve, UK

So Union is a strategically varied and enormously complex game, is it? That's another myth blown, as two League players learn it in half a match. Wait till the much-lauded England RU have to cope with Wendell Sailor and Mat Rogers.

Union desperately needs League players, because it cannot produce ball-handling footballing players of its own.
John, England

See also:

31 Oct 01 |  Rugby Union
England call up Kiwi star Paul
30 Oct 01 |  Rugby Union
Harris named in Wales squad
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