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| TX: 04.06.09 - Disability Minister PRESENTER: WINIFRED ROBINSON |
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| Downloaded from www.bbc.co.uk/radio4 THE ATTACHED TRANSCRIPT WAS TYPED FROM A RECORDING AND NOT COPIED FROM AN ORIGINAL SCRIPT. BECAUSE OF THE RISK OF MISHEARING AND THE DIFFICULTY IN SOME CASES OF IDENTIFYING INDIVIDUAL SPEAKERS, THE BBC CANNOT VOUCH FOR ITS COMPLETE ACCURACY. ROBINSON On Monday the UK will become the 58th country to ratify the UN Convention on Human Rights for Disabled People. It's a highly controversial document, seeking to give people with disabilities exactly the same rights in employment, in education and in immigration as able bodied people. The person overseeing the ratification here is Jonathan Shaw, who's the minister for disabled people, and his first job when he was not in politics was as a fruit picker. He's since worked as a care assistant and as a social worker in child protection, adoption and fostering. He's been MP for Chatham and Aylesford since 1997. Peter White spoke to Jonathan Shaw about his own experiences of disability but firstly about that UN convention. SHAW It underpins the work that we've done to date. I mean it's essential that we ratify the UN Convention, I think it sends out a very strong message to wider society that we take the rights of disabled people very, very importantly and it's a high priority for the government. WHITE So is the Convention being ratified in full? SHAW We have got some reservations in terms of the armed forces, in terms of immigration and also inclusive education - we say that specialist schools are part of an inclusive education agenda. WHITE So how does that work? You've signed it, you've ratified it, but there are things which you will not promise to do. SHAW I mean for example because people in the forces are in service the government's view is that it is for the military to make the decisions in terms of their personnel. That doesn't mean to say that they don't employ disabled people - they do - but it is for them to determine the resources and the capability needed, particularly at this time and not for the courts in the normal way that employers will be subject to. WHITE And on the issue of special schools you're saying that you're not prepared - the government is not prepared to say - that special schools are not a legitimate part of an integrated system, an inclusive system? SHAW Well we say that they are and it's for local authorities to provide a provision that they see fits for their local community. But outside of the maintained sector we also have a number of specialist schools for children, perhaps often run by charities or foundations that parents choose to send their children to that might be funded by the local authority. Now we say that the inclusivity is about choice as well and we don't have any wish to change that. WHITE Will it make a difference to people in the UK? SHAW It absolutely will make a difference to the people in the UK and it isn't a case of now we've ratified, that's it. Now we move on to the monitoring, in addition to which we're going to ratify the optional protocol which will allow people to take the government to the UN Committee if they feel that we're not adhering to the articles. But in terms of building upon our work we've got the life chances ministerial group, which are responsible for implementing the independent living strategy, so we get equality for disabled people by 2025. All of this drives us to this gulf. WHITE You're meeting a lot of disabled people in your job, what are the things that they are telling you they want that are really sticking in your mind? SHAW It depends on which particular group of disabled people that I'm talking to on which particular day. Let me give you some examples. When I was meeting visually impaired people, when I first came into office, they were talking to me about DLA and why they needed the higher rate. WHITE That's Disability Living Allowance. SHAW And when I'm meeting people with learning disabilities they're talking to me about hate crime and we've seen some very well publicised hideous crimes against people with learning disabilities. Also importantly they're talking to me about work as are people with mental health issues. WHITE What are your own direct experiences of disability? SHAW One of my first jobs was as a care worker and I remember in the 1980s working with people with learning disabilities, helping people move from the long stay hospitals into the community and I used to do night work, as well as day work, and I think that there was a - there was quite a comfortable consensus around that time in the 1980s that it was the right thing to do - to close down institutions and that people should live in the community and I think that's right. But I think the consensus there was a bit too cosy because what hadn't really been properly thought about was what people were going to do when they got into the community and actually being occupied and having a day's work. That was a frustration. So we had to devise things for people to do. So I think that things have changed a lot for the better since my time. WHITE When I asked you about your personal associations with disability you mentioned a work one but do you have contacts with disability from a more personal point of view? SHAW Well over the years I have had a number of friends who are disabled. A whole hairline ago I used to do some Morris dancing and our musician was a blind man. I've got disabled friends with a range of different disabilities. So it's something certainly that I've experienced and continue to experience and I hope that that helps me with my job, to understand the practical day-to-day needs and aspirations of disabled people as we take forward our independent living strategy, which I chair the ministerial committee for that brings together ministers from all of the different government departments. That is my working document, that's my priority. Back to the You and Yours homepage The BBC is not responsible for external websites |
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