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| TX: 15.04.09 - Train Access PRESENTER: JULIAN WORRICKER |
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| Downloaded from www.bbc.co.uk/radio4 THE ATTACHED TRANSCRIPT WAS TYPED FROM A RECORDING AND NOT COPIED FROM AN ORIGINAL SCRIPT. BECAUSE OF THE RISK OF MISHEARING AND THE DIFFICULTY IN SOME CASES OF IDENTIFYING INDIVIDUAL SPEAKERS, THE BBC CANNOT VOUCH FOR ITS COMPLETE ACCURACY. WORRICKER Steep flights of steps to the platform, inaccessible ticket machines, we've even heard examples of wheelchair users having to travel beyond their chosen station so they can cross to an adjoining platform and go back to where they wanted to be in the first place. Now this isn't a universal picture, if you're disabled and travelling by rail to and from mainline stations you probably won't have problems, in fact the Association of Train Operating Companies says half of all stations across the UK have full access for disabled users. But in some parts of the country the picture still isn't good. Mark Greenwood recently travelled from Weymouth to Waterloo, he spoke to Louise Champ about his journey. GREENWOOD What's happened is that the major investment's gone into the large hub stations, I mean not surprisingly because that handles more passengers, therefore the likelihood is they'll see more people with disabilities. But once you get out into the provinces and out into the smaller stations where people actually live you're going to find problems like my home station where it's impossible to travel south because there is no access to that side of the station. And a declared plan not to give any access. So you have to build 45 minutes to an hour into your journey to travel north to a station where you can get across the platforms which frankly seems a bit daft. CHAMP So Mark, just explain for us, what's the worst journey you've had to make of late? GREENWOOD Without comparison that would be the trip from home to Brockenhurst. Once they know you're - have any kind of disability they'll refer you to the train company because they don't have the information on accessibility, which is wrong really, they should be able to confidently tell you how to make the journey. So you're forced to ring the train company and in fact the first number I was given to ring the train company was disconnected. So we found the number on the web and then we had to wait something like altogether 40 minutes while they went off to look at how I could do a particular journey. And in fact in the end asked if they could call back, which they did three times to tell me that they were still looking at it. And the journey ended with a taxi from a station home, which on the clock on the taxi had got to over £30. So whether or not they'd be prepared to do that if I made that journey multiple times a week I'm not sure. But it doesn't really add up to a first class service. CHAMP ATOC and the Department of Transport would argue that they are putting a lot of money in and that they are improving accessibility to stations, do you feel this is not happening quick enough or actually that this is not happening at all? GREENWOOD My feeling is that it would be better if there was a very open plan about which stations they really are going to convert, which ones they don't intend to convert and then some kind of a review with the public about, you know, is that acceptable or should more be done to make the whole network accessible. And they don't seem to have the data cleaned up about what's accessible and what's not. For example, from my home station I did manage to travel north to get on to a different platform to travel south but when I spoke to Southwest Trains they were very clear that there was no access from my home station and they were not encouraged to say that there was. So there's a mix there of the data that you have and the data that you're given as a customer. What we really crave is independence, to turn up and go like anybody else, not just to have access. It makes you feel like a sort of second class person before you even get on the train. And there are pockets where there is no access but really these days there's not much excuse, they need to work through the infrastructure because, if nothing else, there's a great number of people with disabilities who would then be added as customers and would use the train network. WORRICKER Mark Greenwood talking to Louise Champ. Listening to that, here in the studio, is David Sindall from the Association of Train Operating Companies and Ann Bates from the Disabled Person's Transport Advisory Committee. How typical, Ann Bates, is the story we've just heard? BATES I think there's a mix of perceptions. I'm with Mark every step of the way and my aspiration is that every station should be accessible. But we live in the real world and to me success in travelling is more important than my right to turn up and go. So I'm a great advocate of pre-booking, I think pre-booking should be made a lot easier by the train companies but I like the assurance, I think it's confidence I need - the confidence to know that when I book my ramp will turn up, that I won't be dumped at an inaccessible station, that I won't - that I can talk over my plans with other people. WORRICKER And that, David Sindall, is about the information which, according certainly to Mark Greenwood, is sometimes lacking, do you acknowledge that? SINDALL We do and we're doing something about it too. Later this year we'll launch a new facility on the National Rail Enquiries website - Stations Made Easy. That will enable people to look at the actual access at stations, it will give you pictures - so it will give you representations of what a station looks like and then maybe you'd find a route through your station, so it makes it easier. WORRICKER But why, apparently, is the picture still so patchy? SINDALL Largely because we've got a rail network that was developed by the Victorians, we have a network that's fragmented, you have different train operators running different franchises that have different lengths of operation and there needs to be better coordination at the centre. You have to remember that train operators are the tenants at stations, we don't own the stations, they're owned by Network Rail and they're also owned - Network Rail and the Department for Transport are responsible for improvements. WORRICKER You mention the Department of Transport, I mean we've just heard from them who say among other reasons for delays in some places, it says, efforts to satisfy the demands of train operating companies who have asked for postponements in some cases. So the picture is a complicated one, do you acknowledge that? SINDALL It is complicated - I agree with you. WORRICKER And are you playing your full part in improving it do you think? SINDALL Absolutely and in fact the main government programme - Railway for All - has two components to it. The small schemes fund and major projects. Where train operators have been delivering the small schemes we're deliver it on time and on budget. The major programme is slipping a little bit and both Ann and I are involved in the industry's steering group and we know that we're frustrated with the progress. WORRICKER Ann Bates, do you acknowledge the efforts that ATOC are making here? BATES Oh yes, I think we're working very well together. I think we have what I suppose a critical friend relationship in that I don't agree with everything that ATOC says and I'm sure they don't agree with everything I say but I think we need to work together. And my thing from the Railways for All is the prioritisation. I realise that your caller is a wheelchair user but a dictate we represent people with a wide range of disabilities and sometimes it's not a case of a huge amount of money for a lift, it's something as simple as an automatic door that can bring access. WORRICKER And a brief word David Sindall, if you would, on staffing at stations because there are fears that as staffing numbers come down manning is less, that that will inevitably not help disabled users. SINDALL Well I think that's all to do with what's in the train operator's franchise commitments and what goes into franchising documents which is the way forward. We're committed to maintaining the highest quality service possible to disabled passengers. And we hope more disabled people will use rail. WORRICKER Okay, we must leave it there but thank you both very much indeed, David Sindall and Ann Bates. Back to the You and Yours homepage The BBC is not responsible for external websites |
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