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| TX: 17.08.05 - Mental Health Complaints PRESENTER: WINIFRED ROBINSON |
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| Downloaded from www.bbc.co.uk/radio4 THE ATTACHED TRANSCRIPT WAS TYPED FROM A RECORDING AND NOT COPIED FROM AN ORIGINAL SCRIPT. BECAUSE OF THE RISK OF MISHEARING AND THE DIFFICULTY IN SOME CASES OF IDENTIFYING INDIVIDUAL SPEAKERS, THE BBC CANNOT VOUCH FOR ITS COMPLETE ACCURACY. ROBINSON An independent inquiry into the biggest single case of sexual abuse by doctors in the NHS has called for extra support for mental health patients who want to make complaints. The inquiry investigated how two consultant psychiatrists working at the Clifton Hospital in York sexually assaulted at least 77 of their women patients over a 20 year period, up until the late 1980s. The inquiry described an institutional moral failing, which allowed complaints to be ignored. It also asked for a special process for dealing with complaints by psychiatric patients, including access to independent sources of support and the Department of Health has promised to revise its procedures. Kathy Hack who was raped by William Kerr when she was suffering from depression as a student nurse and was referred to him for treatment, still works as a nurse in the NHS. She kept quiet about the abuse until another case emerged and then she led the campaign for an independent inquiry. She explained to us what happened to her. HACK I had treatment up in the North East with a psychiatrist and he'd decided I was better to leave home because a lot of my problems were home problems. I actually went down to Harrogate and started to work down there, I was alone down there, so within a few weeks obviously I became depressed again. My GP referred me to see a Dr Bromham, who turned out to be Dr Kerr's wife, and she referred me on to him. And on that very first visit to see him he exposed himself and basically each time I went to see him sexual intercourse took place and he was saying it was part of my treatment. ROBINSON If you think back to your mental state at the time, what did you think about what was going on? HACK I know that my previous psychiatrist, who'd treated me in the North East, in Durham, I kind of put my whole trust in him, this was the man who'd helped me get better. And I think I felt that Dr Kerr or Kerr as I prefer to call him, was the person who was going to help me get better. ROBINSON So how long then did it take you to complain about what he had done? HACK I didn't actually complain. I was admitted to hospital and then when I came out of hospital I was by then living in the nurses home in Harrogate Hospital and one of the porters came to me and mentioned about Dr Kerr, asked if he was treating me, and I said yes. He then told me that he'd propositioned a female friend of his. I mean I immediately denied anything happening to me, I think I realised then that what was happening wasn't right, I was so ashamed I never went back to see Kerr anymore but I never told anyone either. ROBINSON You campaigned with other victims for an inquiry, which has since been held in private because of the nature of the allegations, it concluded that at the time all this was happening there was a culture where the consultant was never questioned. You're still working in the NHS, surely a great deal has changed though since then? HACK Yes, in those days when this happened in the '60s, '70s and '80s consultants were god and they weren't questioned. Now the management system is different, the doctors no longer run the health service. I think even if inquiries concluded this could possibly still happen. I know one psychiatrist within the inquiry actually said that if a doctor was intelligent enough and determined enough he could do the same thing all over again. ROBINSON Now the inquiry's called for special procedures to be put into place to make sure that the voices of mental health patients are heard, tell me why you think that's necessary. HACK I think especially mental health patients probably are less likely to speak out because they are scared, they fear the loss of their treatment if they speak out, they fear they may not be believed. ROBINSON I understand that in some cases these psychiatrists threatened women that they had abused, that they would even have them sectioned under the Mental Health Act, held against their will and that their children would be taken from them. HACK Yes there's one lady who, in particular, who he threatened this to and threatened he would take her children away. And 25 years later she still thinks he's coming to take her children. And this is the long term effect of what happened. ROBINSON And the reason why I suppose you would argue that mental health patients do need even more than the structures for whistle blowing that are already in place? HACK Yes, I think mental health patients need a lot more support. I personally believe that we should have an independent organisation to go to, to support mental health patients who have complaints, especially of sexualised activity, to have them take those complaints forward. I think even now it would be difficult, I think a lot of nurses would think twice because you're not sure what will happen to you. ROBINSON It's difficult to know though isn't it how far we ought to go with setting up checks and balances because there is a danger, isn't there surely, in regulating all of the NHS because of the actions of a couple of doctors? HACK Oh yes, I mean having worked for almost 40 years in the NHS I have never come across a doctor who's behaved in this way and I do feel sorry for the decent doctors and I must say I was very much supported by the doctors who I worked with when this whole thing came out and I started to fight for the inquiry. But these particular doctors affected an awful lot of people's lives and I think when you've listened to the ladies, as I have, the other ladies in the group, and the long term effects that they've had, I think we have to try to make sure that nothing like this can happen. ROBINSON And what about your own recovery, how are you these days? HACK I'm fine, I mean I think really when this all came out in '97 I initially kept myself on the outside of it and threw myself into work. At the time I was an ICU nurse and we were short staffed, so there was always extra work to do. ROBINSON An intensive care nurse. HACK Yeah, sorry it's intensive care yeah. When Kerr was found unfit to plead, that was when I sort of broke down and I did have a nervous breakdown again and I did - I was retired on medical grounds, although I have gone back to work. But I found bringing the other ladies together, because I actually sent a letter out via the police to say that we have to call for an inquiry and fight for an inquiry, kind of supporting them I think was the thing that helped me. I always say to people during the last four years I've been very angry while I've been fighting for this inquiry, people's lives have literally been ruined. ROBINSON I mean why is it so damaging? HACK I think because with a lot of ladies they did actually complain and weren't believed. I mean I know of cases where some of the ladies had already been sexually abused as children, or raped as teenagers, and then for this - these men to continue and do this to them has just left them with such a low self-esteem, wondering if it was something that they've done themselves. I think a lot of them lost their trust in the medical profession completely. I mean I've found myself counselling them, although I'm not actually a trained counsellor, perhaps because I was the nurse they turned to me and I found that I had to counsel them. ROBINSON Kathy Hack. Back to the You and Yours homepage The BBC is not responsible for external websites |
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