| | |
| | |
 | You and Yours - Transcript BBC Radio 4 |
| |
| Print This Page |
| |
| |
| TX: 01.08.05 - Debenhams and Disabled Access PRESENTER: PETER WHITE |
| |
| Downloaded from www.bbc.co.uk/radio4 THE ATTACHED TRANSCRIPT WAS TYPED FROM A RECORDING AND NOT COPIED FROM AN ORIGINAL SCRIPT. BECAUSE OF THE RISK OF MISHEARING AND THE DIFFICULTY IN SOME CASES OF IDENTIFYING INDIVIDUAL SPEAKERS, THE BBC CANNOT VOUCH FOR ITS COMPLETE ACCURACY. WHITE Now Debenhams has just become the first retailer to be prosecuted under the access provisions of the Disability Discrimination Act. Since last October the DDA placed specific duties on shops and businesses to provide reasonable access to all customers, including disabled people. So things such as flights of steps and narrow aisles should, where reasonable, be replaced by ramps and by better use of space. Greg Jackson is a wheelchair user and he told Marie Devine how last November he visited a Debenhams store in Derby to buy a new outfit. JACKSON There's a certain section within the menswear department that I couldn't access, on a raised level three or four steps high with no lift or no ramp and no way for anybody in a wheelchair to get up to there. I asked for the manager and asked her for an explanation as to why I couldn't and she could only say that well the staff would be happy to bring things to me. I said that I found that unacceptable. It's embarrassing to be dealt with like that because it draws attention to the fact that I am disabled. Not only that but it doesn't allow me to browse properly on my own, like anybody else can, and therefore you sort of feel under more pressure to buy something if somebody's sort of taken all the sort of so-called trouble to carry things to you and you only really wanted to have a look. DEVINE Are you very disappointed in Debenhams? JACKSON I've been extremely disappointed, I feel like they've fobbed me off, I feel like they've dismissed me and not taken the complaint seriously. I asked to speak to the manager, she categorically said that it would be too much money and there wouldn't be any space to put a ramp in. I did ask her to put that in writing because that annoyed me, you know I wanted to make a complaint about that and she abruptly and categorically she said no. Debenhams have not done anything about it since I made the complaint last November and it's left me no alternative other to go down to London and issue them with court papers. It was as much the attitude and the way I was dealt with by Debenhams as the actual steps themselves. WHITE Greg Jackson. Well Sarfraz Khan from the Disability Rights Commission is part of Greg Jackson legal advice team and he joins us. Sarfraz Khan, almost a year on and yet this is the first prosecution of its type - why? KHAN It's the first case that the DRC has supported, there might well be others within the county court system that have been commenced by individual disabled people without assistance from the DRC. But there have been a lot of complaints, a lot of which have been resolved successfully and secondly there's a lot of service providers may well have decided that the planning and preparation required should be carried out and they've made the adjustments prior to these duties coming into force. WHITE But I gather this is really quite a prolonged process, I mean for Greg Jackson it's taken him since November to actually bring him to the point where he's been able to present his papers. KHAN Yes, I mean it does take some time and effort in terms of getting the evidence together, preparing the case, getting the proceedings issued and serving those proceedings on the defendant, it does unfortunately take some time. WHITE Which is presumably putting quite a lot of people off. I mean when we talked about the Part 3 of the DDA last time we heard about people who had had this kind of experience but actually given up on the way and it sounds as if that could still happen. KHAN Well the problem with Part 3 of the DDA is that it's enforced through the county court system and the county court system is costly and inaccessible for large parts of disabled people acting in their own cases. And I think it's a problem with the system in Part 3 cases rather than the rights that people have in the DDA. WHITE But it sounds as if there are still quite a lot of people who are very unhappy with the level of access that they're being given. KHAN Yes we receive complaints about various service providers up and down the country and in the majority of instances, the overwhelming majority of instances, these cases have been resolved as soon as the DRC's pointed out the problem. WHITE In this particular case we've heard from Debenhams and a spokesman said to us - We're looking again at the issues raised in this case and will continue to work with the Disability Rights Commission to resolve this satisfactorily. What's your reaction to that? KHAN Well we've offered Debenhams the opportunity to conciliate in this case through our independent conciliation service and that wasn't taken up. We've gathered further evidence and saw fit to issue proceedings because our offer of conciliation was not accepted. So if they're prepared to engage in negotiations to try and settle this, not just this matter but presumably to consider the same issues or similar issues that might arise across their stores, then we're prepared to consider that. WHITE But they haven't done so far? KHAN They haven't. WHITE If he - if Greg should win this, what's the implication of this, I mean does this create an obligation on all of the Debenhams stores to take action on this, rather than just the one in Derby? KHAN Well I'd suggest that at a very minimum Debenhams would need to consider taking action in all their stores and they would have to take a considered approach across their whole premises. It's not simply doing this on an ad hoc basis, one store by one, that's good enough and that the DDA thinks service providers like Debenhams need to do that on a consolidated basis and if they don't then there are problems. WHITE Sarfraz Khan, thank you very much indeed. Back to the You and Yours homepage The BBC is not responsible for external websites |
| About the BBC | Help | Terms of Use | Privacy & Cookies Policy |
