................................................................................ ON THE RECORD NICK BROWN INTERVIEW RECORDED FROM TRANSMISSION: BBC ONE DATE: 22.11.98
................................................................................ JOHN HUMPHRYS: The European Agriculture Ministers are meeting tomorrow and everyone seems to think they will vote to lift the ban on British farmers exporting their beef to the rest of the world. There have been false dawns before of course so will it really happen this time? Our Agriculture Minister is Nick Brown and he is with me. Good afternoon Mr Brown. Not really is it going to happen because I know you are persuaded that it is going to happen, you are going to get the votes that you need. So perhaps the question should be when are we going to be able to start exporting our beef. I read this morning it will be many months yet. NICK BROWN: Well what I hope will happen is this, that the commission proposal will be put to the ministers on Monday, I hope it will be early up the agenda, that we will have a discussion about the commission's proposal. It will then be agreed, and I'm confident that I have got the support of the majority of the other agricultural ministers, once it is agreed we have to set up the date-based export scheme here, I can't set it up before I've got agreement. If we have that agreement on Monday, and I confidently hope we will, we are going to work very hard to get this scheme up and running. I think it will be by early spring that we have the thing operational, we will then have to have a final inspection by the commission, to make sure we've done what we've promised to do and then we should be exporting de-boned beef from Britain, world-wide, again. Now- HUMPHRYS: By? - on that basis if all goes according to plan. BROWN: February/March next year. HUMPHRYS: February/March, right. BROWN: That's my target. HUMPHRYS: And you believe that's realistic. BROWN: Well I've been saying for months now that my target for getting the ban lifted was November. This is the November meeting and it looks like I've achieved that, so I think it is realistic to say February/March to have the date-based export scheme in place and up and running. It will have to be a partnership between the government, the producers and the suppliers, but I am confident that I can get everyone together and we will work very hard at it. HUMPHRYS: It is going to take though a long time isn't it, for beef exports to get back to anything like the level - if ever - the levels that they were before the ban, I mean only animals of a certain age can be sold abroad and so on. How long do you think before we will get back to a reasonable level and what would you regard as a reasonable level? BROWN: I don't want to make any market forecasts, as you know at the minute there is a surplus in the European Union of beef, so it is not a very easy time for us to try to get markets back. HUMPHRYS: And people will find new places to source their beef from. BROWN: We've been out of the market for three years now and in which time other people have come and taken those markets over. HUMPHRYS: So it's going to take a long time isn't it. BROWN: The terms of trade are not easy for us at the minute either so it is going to be difficult to fight and get those markets back. There may be some consumer resistance as well because of perceptions that you know Britain is the country that had BSE, is the beef safe now. We've spent so much money and put so much effort in to ensure that British beef is amongst the safest in the world. That's an important message for us to get over. HUMPHRYS: But you've got to persuade people that. BROWN: It's true but we've got to persuade people of it of course. It is not going to be easy but we are going to work very hard at it and it's important that we make a start. Remember the ban is a world-wide ban on exports from the United Kingdom. To get that lifted is a huge achievement for the British Government, it proves that the institutions of the European Union have worked well for us but of course there is still the normal
trading obstacles to be overcome and that is not going to be easy. HUMPHRYS: So it will take a long time. BROWN: I think it's going to be a long haul but if we don't make a start we will never get there. HUMPHRYS: So during that long haul when beef farmers' incomes will still be down for all the reasons that we know, are you going to give them any more help, you announced last week that you are going to put a hundred and whatever million pounds into it, into them, are you going to add to that, are you going to offer them more help? BROWN: At the comprehensive spending review means that my budget, budget for the Department of Agriculture is now determined for the next three years and within that strict budget settlement there is no leeway for extra support packages for the farm industry. The package I announced last Monday was intended to provide short-term assistance to an industry that I freely acknowledge is going through difficulties. Of course I am examining other things I can do to help the industry that do not cost money but within the CAP negotiations the thrust of the negotiations is to look at the beef sector with a view to reducing the structural surplus that there currently is within the European Union. Now that means, in money terms, less rather than more. So our industry, like the rest of the European Union's industry will have to go through a period of adjustment. HUMPHRYS: So they will continue to struggle in other words. BROWN: I think that times will be difficult because of the structural surplus and because of the world-wide ban on British products. But I think the British industry will have a new and unique opportunity to get back into international markets which we have been out of for three years. HUMPHRYS: Yes, but as you say it's going to take a very long time for them to do that. BROWN: There are..you know there are difficulties to be overcome and I freely acknowledge that, but I think we can do it and I certainly think that we should try. HUMPHRYS: But we will probably see in that case more farmers go to the wall, won't we.. BROWN: But that doesn't necessarily follow. HUMPHRYS: Probably BROWN: It all depends on the size of the farm and the ...... HUMPHRYS: It's the smaller farmers I'm thinking of BROWN: .... and the particular pattern of farming. I acknowledge that things are particularly difficult for the smaller farmers and there are a range of ways forwards. Doing nothing is not an answer. It may be that diversification has its part to play..... HUMPHRYS: ...for the farmers you mean?.... This is what they've got to do? BROWN: Well I'm not telling anyone how to run their business. What I want to do is to give as much certainty as I can to the state support that is in the market place and the terms and conditions of trade and then let people make their own judgements for their own businesses. I'm going down to the South West of the country in January partly to address the regional meeting of the National Farmers Union but also to specifically talk to representitives of small farmers to try to devise a way forward for them. But I say again, doing nothing is not an option. HUMPHRYS: Doing nothing from their point of view is not an option? That's what you're saying? BROWN: That's my view. HUMPHRYS: They have to change the way they go about things. They won't like that message. BROWN: I'm not telling people how to run their business but it seems to me that the conventional small farm operation is going to struggle in the market place which, whether we like it or not, is going to become increasingly liberalised. HUMPHRYS: A quick thought about beef on the bone. Why shouldn't we be able to be eating beef on the bone here again by Christmas? You've said that there's no reason to keep it going for very much longer but why wait? BROWN: Well I'm waiting for a report from SEAC which is my advisory committee and as soon as they say that it would be reasonable for me to lift the ban on eating beef on the bone I will do so. HUMPHRYS: Can't you hassle them a bit? Bring it forward a bit? BROWN: No. I'm not going to tell the scientists what advice to give me. Their advice...... HUMPHRYS: No No. I mean get the report in quickly. BROWN: I'd rather it was right. I want the advice to be given independently and when they believe it is right to do so. Now there are some indications that that advice will be coming towards me soon and I hope to be able to lift the domestic ban on beef on the bone as soon as it is reasonable for me to do so. HUMPHRYS: Not by Christmas? BROWN: Well I'm not..... I'm not going to make any announcements today. But I want to do so and I think it is, if it is possible for me to do so, we will explain to the public clearly what the risks are and let people make their own choices. HUMPHRYS: Right. Which some said perhaps you should have done right at the very beginning. BROWN: I've only been a minster since July and I've been trying to sort this...... HUMPHRYS: Indeed you have. Indeed you have. Final quick thought about one of your colleagues in the Treasury, Geoffrey Robinson. More allegations this morning about his alleged behaviour when he was in business. A lot of calls this morning for him to resign. He is an embarrassment to the government now isn't he? BROWN: Well I don't see it that way at all. I saw the piece in one of the Sunday papers and it looked to me like a Conservative member of Parliament who'd got a standard letter from the Department of Trade and Industry and was waving it around as if it was saying new evidence. HUMPHRYS: A standard letter saying there are going to be investigations into many of his actions. BROWN: No it doesn't say that. The Department of Trade and Industry as I understand it, it's not my department, don't confirm or deny whether they're looking at an individual's affairs. These matters are dealt with by officials not by politicians. HUMPHRYS: If they are should he resign? BROWN: And in any event, I am not the politician you should be asking about these matters. HUMPHRYS: No I understand that but you're a member of the government (both speaking at once) but you're in the Cabinet and if these allegations are held up, if there are these investigations taking place as the Sunday Times reports this morning, shouldn't he have to go? BROWN: I'm not even sure that there are such allegations. Geoffrey Robinson is a very good minister and he's making a good contribution to the government. HUMPHRYS: Mr Brown, thank you very much indeed. BROWN: You're very welcome. ...oooOooo...