THIS TRANSCRIPT IS ISSUED ON THE UNDERSTANDING THAT IT IS TAKEN FROM A LIVE PROGRAMME AS IT WAS BROADCAST. THE NATURE OF LIVE BROADCASTING MEANS THAT NEITHER THE BBC NOR THE PARTICIPANTS IN THE PROGRAMME CAN GUARANTEE THE ACCURACY OF THE INFORMATION PRINTED HERE. Tape Transcript by JANE TEMPLE MONEY BOX LIVE Presenter: Paul Lewis Guests: David McGrath Bill Petrie TRANSMISSION 14th OCT 2002 1500 - 1530 RADIO 4 ___________________________________________________________ ANNOUNCER : Now at two minutes past three, MONEY BOX LIVE with Paul Lewis: LEWIS: Hello. And today we answer your questions on releasing money from your home. The huge rise in the value of property in Britain means that more and more people are sitting in a fortune - especially older people who’ve paid off their mortgage and now live in a property worth on average around £115,000. And as company pensions disappear, annuity income falls, and money invested in shares is worth less and less turning your home into an income or a cash lump sum is more and more attractive. It’s called equity release, and it’s a market that’s growing even more rapidly than house prices. In 2001 more than half a billion pounds worth of business was done and this year sales are up by a third. As the market grows the choice gets broader but not necessarily better. While a mortgage can cost as little as 3 or 4%, equity release products lend you money at more than 7%. Financial companies and their sales people are rubbing their hands in glee anticipating juicy commissions from this growing market which at the moment is largely unregulated, so what is the danger of more mis-selling? In the past some home income schemes have left people with little money and huge debts. So how can you avoid the pitfalls? What are the different schemes? Which are good value? And just how much money can you safely release from the value of your home? Whatever your question call Money Box Live 08700 100 444 With me today to answer your questions on turning home sweet home into loan sweet loan are David McGrath from independent financial advisors Hinton and Wild and Bill Petrie who is equity release manger with another independent financial advisor Towry Law Mortgage Services. And the first question is from Elizabeth. Elizabeth, your question for the panel? ELIZABETH: Yeah who would be - I mean I actually own the house that we live in. I have a completely disabled husband and I need because we were self employed and I still am, I need to know how I can actually release the equity on the house to give me the added income that I actually need. LEWIS: Okay, well let’s put that to the experts - I’m sure there’s a couple of questions they’d like to ask you and we need to know some personal details and perhaps they could explain as well the different ways you can do this. So David McGrath - let’s start with you? McGRATH: Good afternoon Elizabeth ELIZABETH: Good afternoon Mr. McGrath McGRATH: So obviously you’re starting a journey in terms of looking at the types of schemes available? ELIZABETH: Yes McGRATH: What we’d perhaps suggest is do take your time and look at lots of different angles - perhaps - do you have your own independent financial advisor for example? ELIZABETH: I do. McGRATH: You do. So perhaps have a chat with him - he may have some specialist knowledge in the area, maybe talk with Age Concern, they have a very useful factsheet on the subject. Indeed there is an organisation to protect and promote safe plans known as Safe Home Income Plans. And I’m sure at the end of the programme Paul can give some details on that as well. But that’s a good starting point. LEWIS: Yeah and just go through this David, the two basic schemes that apply now for people who want to release money from their home? McGRATH: The two basic schemes are a - first of all a reversion whereby what you do is you give up part or all of the ownership of your property in exchange for cash or income, and the alternative is a mortgage type of arrangement where this time you retain the ownership of the property and receive some benefits in return. ELIZABETH: Yeah can I just come in on that one? McGRATH: Please do ELIZABETH: I mean with - with the mortgage what I don’t want to do is to actually have the sort of - have a monthly or whatever payment out. I mean the way I’ve been understanding it is that - if I put the building - I would then be able to have perhaps a monthly payment on the building and then if I or my husband actually pop our clogs - you know then the whole thing will be paid off. LEWIS: Okay, Bill Petrie let’s put that to you - I mean just clarify this position - if you take out one of these schemes you don’t have to pay anything now do you? PETRIE: No, the schemes that are on the market now Elizabeth are such that as Dave was saying you either have the reversion type scheme where you give up all or part of ownership of the property or the cash release schemes. Now which either of those two options you decide to choose on neither of them do you make a monthly payment back to the lender. ELIZABETH: Okay, now where would be the best places to go to find this? LEWIS: Can I just ask you first Elizabeth - how much is your house worth do you think? ELIZABETH: About 65 LEWIS: £65,000 - okay. Let me ask them, what sort of income or lump sum could Elizabeth and her husband expect from that sort of property? PETRIE: Can I ask you how old you are Elizabeth? ELIZABETH: Well I’m 64 and Ian is 65. PETRIE: Okay, now the equity release schemes that are on the market are always worked on the age of the youngest person so it would be worked on your age so if we look at somebody like the Northern Rock for example you’d be able to borrow 20% of the value of the property as a cash lump sum which would give you £13,000. And then from that £13,000 you could either invest it and just draw as and when you needed or purchase an annuity or something like that which would give you a regular monthly income. LEWIS: David McGrath that doesn’t sound very much giving up the whole value of the house worth £65,000 you get a cash lump sum of what £13,000? McGRATH: That’s right, I think we’re drawing an interesting point here as well in that - did you say you were 64? ELIZABETH: Yes she’s 64 and her husband’s 65. McGRATH: Quite simply the mortgage option’s the only one available to you because of age Elizabeth so you won’t be giving up your ownership rights. LEWIS: Okay, so let’s move on to another caller - Jeannie who’s calling us from Essex and she also has a house worth slightly more. Jeannie, your question? JEANNIE: Oh hello. I sound as though I’m being rather improvident but circumstances mean that I - I won’t have any sort of pension, probably not even a miniscule State pension. I have a little capital which brings me in an income of £5,000 a year and I’m dipping slightly into the capital. I’m 56 I should say. I do have a house worth £250,000 and I was tending to think that since I have absolutely no-one I wish to leave it to - well I don’t have any relatives or any family, I’m wondering how this can be best put to provide some sort of pension yes? LEWIS: I think two key questions Jeannie - how old are you and JEANNIE: 56 LEWIS: And are you living alone? JEANNIE: Yes LEWIS: Right, okay, so let’s ask David McGrath - what can Jeannie expect? McGRATH: And third key question Jeannie - the property value would you say approximately? JEANNIE: £250,000 - at the moment. McGRATH: About 250 - there’s only actually one provider available at the moment that could help - Norwich Union have a special scheme available to the over 55s and they could provide you something like about 19% of property value. LEWIS: So they would - they would give Jeannie a lump sum - cash lump sum of 19% and what would she give up for that? McGRATH: 19% of the property value and in exchange for that Norwich Union would make an interest charge but as with the previous caller there’s no payment at all during your lifetime - so that would be added to the loan each year. LEWIS: So that will roll up and of course the debt gets bigger every year - the interest charge gets bigger every year. Is there any danger that eventually that will out strip the value of the property? McGRATH: Absolute guarantee on that point that it won’t out strip the property value - Norwich Union are one of the SHIP member companies and that’s one of their guarantees, so you rest assured on that point, but you do need to look at it very, very carefully and that loan will accelerate quickly so weigh up the value to you now versus the roll up and interest. LEWIS: And Bill Petrie, this again, this doesn’t sound a brilliant idea. I mean Jeannie’s 57 - on current age expectation she’s probably got another 30 or 40 years of life ahead of her so it could well be that - that the money she gets now - what about 20% of £250,000 is all she’ll ever get and when she eventually dies the property will disappear to the - to the lender? PETRIE: Yes I mean it - it - they do seem like that but the point about equity release is that they’re not products where you can’t go back to the lenders again to borrow more money as the property goes up in value. Dependant on what you did with the money Jeannie, you’ve got £50,000 very approximately - you know my maths isn’t very good LEWIS: She would get 50 - almost £50,000 PETRIE: Cash - and then you could invest it - and the various options that you’ve got you could do -purchase an annuity which would pay you an income for life. You could put it in an investment bond which you can get 5% per annum out - something like that. LEWIS: You’re not going to get much from an annuity though are you at 57? PETRIE: Not at 57 no. No - you’re not. But then what it is doing is giving you a foundation to start from. I mean equity release is one of those kind of products where as I said you can go back to them at a later date. LEWIS: Is it reasonable to say to somebody who is 57, try and live on what you’ve got for now because every year that passes the deal you will get will actually be that much better, so if Jeannie could manage for another 13 years till she’s 70 she would get a much, much better deal on this wouldn’t she? PETRIE: Well yes, I mean the other - the other thing that she should look at of course is that equity release is not something that you dive into to start off with. You have to look at all the other options that are available. One of the biggest ones of course is that you’ve got £250,000 worth or equity - could you release the capital by moving down market? In that case that would avoid having to do equity release in the first place. LEWIS: So buying somewhere you’d be happy to live at maybe half the price in a different area and using that £125,000 as an investment. A few things to think about Jeannie. I’m afraid there is no easy answer even though houses do seem very valuable - turning them into an income can be quite expensive. And the next call is from Peter - I don’t have a note of where you’re from Peter, but anyway your question? PETER: Oh hi yes it’s Peter calling from Salisbury yes LEWIS: From Salisbury right - Peter tell us your question? PETER: Good afternoon. Yeah basically the idea of being able to release capital from your house seems a very good one so I’ve looked into some of these schemes and it seems to me that the biggest beneficiary of them is the actual insurance company or bank that’s lending you the money. LEWIS: It’s always like that PETER: Yeah I’ve been looking at the Norwich Union scheme cos that applies to younger clients and my wife’s only 58 and I’m 64. And for instance if I was to borrow £50,000 on my house which is worth about £300,000 I’d pay a total of £1,500 in fees up front and then an interest rate of 7.55% which is you know twice the current base rate and you know does the panel think is good value for money? LEWIS: Well that’s an interesting question. And David McGrath, are these good value for money? - those figures £1,500 charges, interest rate of 7.55%? McGRATH: Peter good afternoon. PETER: Oh good afternoon. McGRATH: Our view would be that the value for money is very much based on your needs right now and how important your needs are going to be met by the plan. If you can as I think Paul alluded to earlier on, if you can wait, if you can wait for a few years so that perhaps you get better value for money then do so, but if this is your - your option that you’re left with and your need can be met by this, perhaps for something very important to you in life then that’s where the value for money needs to be weighed up but it will cost you around about £1,500 to set up in total. LEWIS: And Bill Petrie, why are the interest rates on these so much higher than - well indeed as Peter said than base rate, but also the mortgage deals you can get, if I went out for a mortgage I could get 3,4, 5%? PETRIE: I know, I wish they were. Peter’s quite right on the fact of the costs. The only thing I would say is that the product that he’s looking at which is the Norwich Union scheme, the rate on that is not 7.55 - it’s probably nearer 7% at the moment because that product is - a base rate of about 4.89 plus the average rate of inflation which is currently running about 2% - but the problem that you have in the market is that there is not enough competition out there. In the ordinary housing market where we're looking at purchase mortgages and remortgages there’s so many lenders out there trying to get the business. LEWIS: And that’s because we can swap isn’t it? - they’re fighting for our -for old business as well as new business? PETRIE: Well that’s right LEWIS: So David McGrath, once you’ve taken one of these deals are you stuck with it for life? - you can’t then see a better deal and go for that? McGRATH: You’re not necessarily stuck with it for life but certainly the plans are provided as lifetime arrangements - in fact with the Norwich Union they neither recommend nor expect any form of early repayment whatsoever so it is deemed to be lifetime contracts. LEWIS: Mmm - so - so you are really stuck with it and do you think - I mean I know that you believe these schemes will grow over the next few years, the market is there to be exploited if that’s the right word, does that mean we will see deals getting better - we’ll see interest rates coming down and maybe even some of these up front fees coming down? McGRATH: I think we will -we’ve already seen it this year with Legal & General bringing in a new plan to the market place which has shaved a percentage point - percentage fraction off one of these rates and also some lower completion fees so it’s already beginning to happen so yes. LEWIS: And just briefly either of you really - Peter has obviously looked at this deal from Norwich Union - is there a better one out there for him do you think? PETRIE: Not at his age. LEWIS: Not at his age - so that is the problem of course the older you are the better it is. Cos we all expect to live so much longer. Well Peter a lot to think about. I’m sorry we can’t give you an easy answer. I don’t think we’re going to do much of that this afternoon from the sound of things. Let’s talk to Margaret now who’s calling us from Stevenage. Margaret your question? MARGARET: Yes, my question is which is preferable - if I wanted a lump sum of say about £50,000 to do some improvements to the house - is it preferable to remortgage the house with an interest only mortgage or to do equity release? LEWIS: Okay well I think it’s personal confession time this afternoon cos everybody has to be asked their age and how much their house is worth…..how old are you? MARGARET: 75 LEWIS: You’re 75 and your house is worth what approximately? MARGARET: About £350,000 LEWIS: And is it just you or do you have a husband? MARGARET: Just me LEWIS: Just you - okay. I think those are the three things we need to know. David McGrath what’s the best advice for Margaret? McGRATH: Margaret would you have the income to actually make - arrange an interest only mortgage for yourself to pay the interest each month? MARGARET: Er - I think so. I’m just a little bit nervous about it because the share - the share market is poor and if you know if shares plummeted then I might not be able to that’s what worries me. LEWIS: And would you get a mortgage though - an ordinary mortgage at Margaret’s age? - she’s 75 - can you actually get a sort of three year mortgage on a property if you’re going to be able to meet the payments each month and pay it off? PETRIE: Yes - hello Margaret how are you? What I would like to say on that point is that there are lenders out in the market place who will do these mortgages on an interest only basis. Nationwide for example will do these without any problems at all.. The main thing that you have to consider is the big difference between an ordinary mortgage and an equity release type loan is that you do have monthly repayments to maintain on a remortgage. LEWIS: Yeah on the other hand though you are going to get much lower interest rates. PETRIE: You are indeed. LEWIS: I mean if she could get 4% fixed for a few years that would cost her £2000 a year which would maybe well within her means we don’t know - I think McGRATH: Purely on the finances the interest only would be a better option. LEWIS: Yeah so interest only is a better option but if you must go for equity release that option is there but as you said earlier David, you’ve got to weigh up the - the benefits to you and whether the cost is worth it. Let’s move on now to Yasmin who’s calling us from Twickenham - Jasmin your question? JASMIN: Hi I’m calling on behalf of my mum. She’s in her mid 70s - she owns her own home, but I wanted to know what’s the position with equity release with regard to income support which she’s on? LEWIS: Right, so she gets income support. She has her own house and she lives in it by herself? JASMIN: Yes LEWIS: And she’s sorry what age? JASMIN: Nearly 73. LEWIS: Nearly 73 - and do you know what the house is worth Jasmin? JASMIN: Probably around £250,000 LEWIS: £250,000 okay - seems like a lot of money to have in a house when you’re living on State benefits doesn’t it? JASMIN: Exactly - it’s a sort of really a Catch 22 situation. LEWIS: Yes but there are problems Bill Petrie aren’t there when you do go on to income support because if you are on income support because this money can actually take you off the benefit? PETRIE: It can. And it’s very important that you do all the analysis to make sure that this is not going to happen before you do an equity release type loan. Lots of people could finish up in a situation that they are in fact worse off after doing equity release than they are before they started. LEWIS: Yes I mean I’ve just got some figures here - if you’re on income support or minimum income guarantee as the government likes to call it - if you’re single and your income goes above £98.15 then you won’t get any benefit from the State at all -you can have savings up to £6,000 without it affecting it but once you go above £12,000 at the moment then you will again get no benefit at all - so with even a modest boost to income David McGrath or a modest amount of capital Jasmin’s mum could find she lost all her State benefits and she’s gained nothing? McGRATH: Exactly and I think it’s back to one of the earlier callers - it’s the value to Jasmin today from that extra capital or income. LEWIS: Yes I suppose one alternative would be to move out of the house or not move out but buy somewhere cheaper somewhere else, release a very significant chunk of capital and live off that and say well blow the government and income support - I’ll live off that. But that’s quite a drastic step to take when you’re nearly 73. McGRATH: That’s right and again rather like not wanting to make interest payments each month these plans are designed for those people who want to stay in their home. LEWIS: Yes indeed. So again Jasmin no easy answers - a lot to think about for you and your mother, but it does seem odd doesn’t it people living in a quarter million pound house and living on a very low income from the State. The next caller is Catherine who’s calling us from Bournemouth - Catherine your call? CATHERINE: Catherine hello. Yes, I was thinking seriously of doing this but a couple of friends of mine have done it - but I’m 63 and they’re in their 70s - early 70s, but I’m extremely nervous about it. I did have the Norwich Union round last year. My bungalow’s worth £145,000 - it was then. And I could have £23,500 but I quickly worked it out that over 20 years it’s going to cost me 100 grand - you know to release that sort of money. LEWIS: Yes and indeed at your age nowadays you’d certainly expect another 20 years of life. Well no you absolutely would I think - I think the figures would show that. I think 20 years of life for a woman at 63 is very, very common now. Well we come back to this same question David don’t we? Is it value for money? McGRATH: I think as well one of the things I’m quite pleased about and there is - you have worked out and realised what’s involved because one of the key things that Norwich Union are responsible for is a fair presentation of the plan in accordance with the SHIP rules and requirements. LEWIS: And that means that they both said to her what she can have and what it would cost her over that period of time? McGRATH: Absolutely and with these plans you’d expect any good advisor to point out not only the advantages but the disadvantages of the contracts. The one figure that perhaps - perhaps you haven’t done there is maybe worked out the value of your house at £145,000 over 20 years if that grew. LEWIS: And Bill Petrie - if we look at somebody in the position of Catherine - she’s thinking of taking out one of these roll up mortgages. She borrows £23,500, the interest rolls up and of course by the end of her life it has cost her a great deal of money. The alternative is as you said giving up a share of the value of the property so that a home reversion scheme would actually own part of her house. How would that be -how different would that be for her? PETRIE: I think the first problem that she would - would run into that most of the reversion companies wouldn’t do it I don’t think at her age of 63. So it does really limit her to the fact that we’re looking at one of these cash schemes. LEWIS: So they apply younger. How old do you have to be for a reversion scheme? PETRIE: Normally over 70. LEWIS: Right PETRIE: The cash release schemes come in at aged 55 which is the youngest one which is the Norwich Union scheme. Most of the others that are on the market start about at aged 60 but the other thing that you have to take into consideration -I mean the statistics that are coming through at the moment are that property prices look as though they’re going to rise about 6 - 6.25% per annum over the next 20 years. LEWIS: Confident man predicting that. PETRIE I take my ….it’s the centre of economic forecast LEWIS: We’ll have you back in 20 years to see if you’re right. PETRIE: Yeah I might be doing one of these myself in 20 years time. So from that point of view yes - as David quite rightly said agreed the loan is going up on one side of the equation but you do have to take into consideration that on statistical average the house is going up at the same time. LEWIS: So as you get older - in Catherine case in say 10 years time, the property’s worth a lot more, she is 10 years older, she could go back for more if she was finding that the amount she borrowed didn’t do what she wanted? Okay, well again Catherine, I say to everyone today Catherine, a lot to think about. A lot of complexity, but anyway let’s move on now to Lynne who’s calling us from Essex. Lynne? LYNNE: Hello. I’m 55 and I live in a house I inherited in l999. I do two part time jobs but because of my circumstances I can’t get any credit and I need to do things in the house - small renovations but all that you can borrow if you go to banks is sort of vast amounts of money whereas I need kind of hundreds at a time that I want to pay off. LEWIS: Oh right, so how much is the property worth? LYNNE: I would say £100,000. I’m not sort of au fait with it really but that’s the prices have gone up so much I would think it’s about £100,000 now. LEWIS: Right, and you want to buy as you say relatively small amounts, less than £1000 a time perhaps to do basic - but important improvements to your home? LYNNE: Yeah just sort of roof repairs and things like that you know that LEWIS: Yeah well important things for the future to keep the house in good condition. David McGrath? McGRATH: Hello there Lynne. I think this is going to be quite a difficult one - the types of equity release scheme available on this certainly come in at a minimum property value of just under £140,000 and when you’re talking also in terms of hundreds we’re back to that value for money position rather than tens of thousands. Perhaps you may be looking at a conversation with your local authority or Citizen’s Advice Bureau I think I feel. LEWIS: Mmm and Bill Petrie, is it possible for someone in Lynne’s position with what she says a low income to actually borrow money in a more ordinary way from a bank - take out a second mortgage that she’s going to pay off? PETRIE: Yes I would have thought so - good afternoon Lynne. First the equity release is not for you - for what you’re actually trying to do does not fit into what we would consider to be a suitable customer for this kind of product. In your situation there are lots of specialist lenders out there who will look at the amount that you’re trying to raise - base it on your income and the fact that if you’re going to borrow a few thousand at a time you’ve got a lot of equity in the property to stack up that borrowing. I would look into that market. LEWIS: So where should she go for that? PETRIE: Any - any mortgage registered with the MCCB would be able to assist on that. LEWIS: So a mortgage broker - you see adverts, you see them locally, a mortgage broker who’s qualified although they’re not regulated at the moment generally, but they’re qualified, they can do that kind of job - seek their advice for these relatively small sums of money. PETRIE: I would have thought so yes. LEWIS: Okay well thanks for that - thanks for your call Lynne - let’s move on now to Neil who’s calling us from North Devon - Neil, your question? NEIL: I think you’ve already answered my question but my question was that I’m 64 and my wife is 51 and I’d sort of looked at this equity release system and it didn’t seem that we were old enough to be able to do it - is that correct? LEWIS: I think there’s a few nods around the table - David McGrath - that is correct is it? - this is because they are married - they want a joint arrangement and Neil’s wife is only 51? McGRATH: That’s right - any provider will require a joint ownership on the property - plans taken out jointly. LEWIS: So and how old would his wife have to be? - how old would a wife have to be? McGRATH: 55 LEWIS: So the youngest you can possibly do any of these - one or both of you have to be at least 55 and as we said earlier the older the better. So you’re going to have to hang in there for a few years Neil. And is there any other suggestion you might make Bill I mean I don’t know exactly what Neil wants this money for? PETRIE: No how much are you trying to raise Neil? NEIL: About £50,000 PETRIE: And the value of your property? NEIL: Over £300,000 PETRIE: And are you earning at the moment or pension? NEIL: I’m pension PETRIE: And does your wife work at all? NEIL: Yes she does PETRIE: I would have thought straightforward mortgage for just now. One of the things you could consider is to do it as a mortgage, a remortgage on the property on perhaps interest only basis for a few years - wait till your wife’s 55 - you would then have the option of perhaps doing an equity release to clear the mortgage out the way. LEWIS: So that’s a sort of acceptable double deal is it? - that you borrow it - and of course as we said earlier the advantages that he’s going to be paying 4 or 5% interest instead of 7 or 8 to some of these deals. PETRIE: Neil can go back to his wife and say she’s too young. LEWIS: Okay Neil I think yes some temporary arrangement while - while you both - the passage of time brings you both into the equity release net. But thanks very much for your call - an interesting point. Let’s move on to Gordon now who’s calling us from Rochester in Kent - Gordon, your question? GORDON: Yes, I - I’ve been thinking of going for the maximum equity release on my property. But my situation is that my property is rather run down and neglected and the reason I wanted the money was to renovate the property. Now I was wondering as the renovation would make my property worth a lot more money, would it be possible later to go back and- and get more? LEWIS: Mmm - well I think the answer’s possibly yes Gordon. May I ask you your age? GORDON: Yes 61 LEWIS: 61 and your property’s worth about how much at the moment in its present state? GORDON: I would say around the £200,000 LEWIS: Okay so David McGrath what can Gordon do? McGRATH: Hello there Gordon. Yes I think that’s an important point about - in its present state - so in its present state you would say about 200 and you would say it’s still a sort of a mortgageable property ? GORDON: Oh yes McGRATH: Yes so it’s not completely dilapidated? GORDON: Oh no, not that bad. It’s just I’ve been in business for years and I’ve devoted all my time to my business and neglected my property. LEWIS: Other priorities yes. McGRATH: So yes I mean at 61 you would qualify for a scheme and certainly the answer is you can come back for more in the future. As you get older higher percentages are available for a further advance. LEWIS: And we talked about property prices rising in general - but of course if Gordon does the house up and it is worth more that will immediately put it into -into a higher bracket and he could get more Bill? PETRIE: That’s right yes. How much do you think the house would be worth once the work’s done Gordon? GORDON: I would imagine - I said around 200 now - I would imagine 250 to 300. I’m actually very close to where the new airport is proposed and LEWIS: Not too close I hope. GORDON: Not too close no - but within that range you know so LEWIS: And what sort of amount could - could Gordon expect Bill? PETRIE: Well at the moment based on his age he could be borrowing up to 24% - so a quarter of the value - so he could be borrowing up to £50,000 odd at the moment. LEWIS: And that would certainly do quite a lot of work. Let’s move on Gordon - thanks very much for your call but let’s move on to Sandra - we’ll just squeeze one more in quickly - Sandra your question? SANDRA: Yes. Is leasehold property less eligible for equity release and do all the schemes carry heavy penalties for repayment of advances? LEWIS: Right well two questions Bill? PETRIE: Sandra good afternoon. Can I ask how old you are? SANDRA: 62 PETRIE: And the lease that’s left on the property? SANDRA: About 85 years and it’s a flat I own outright. PETRIE: First of all the fact that you’ve got 85 years left on the lease is not a problem and early repayment penalties - with some of the lenders do go on quite a long time, but the - the Northern Rock scheme has an early repayment penalty which expires at the end of the fifth year. LEWIS: Okay one to consider, thanks very much for your call Sandra. And thanks to Bill - that’s all we have time for. My thanks to Bill Petrie of Towry Law Mortgage Services and also to David McGrath from Hinton and Wild. Thanks of course to all of you for your calls - sorry you couldn’t on air. There’s information and links about equity release on our website where you can contact us, listen us again to the programme and indeed in a day or two read a transcript - all on bbc.co.uk/moneybox. And if you don’t have access to the Internet all that is also available from the BBC Action Line - 0800 044 044 Calls are free 0800 044 044 I’m back at noon on Saturday with MONEY BOX and I’ll be taking more of your calls on MONEY BOX LIVE at three o’clock next Monday afternoon. BACK ANNO: That was Paul Lewis and the producer was Diane Richardson.