Gerry, Sevenoaks
One step forward, two steps back: the ‘Reply to This Message’ buttons have disappeared again, so I can't post on the new site. Like Pammy from Marden, I can only see at the top, there is still no link for 'Last'. Surely someone in the BBC can find a good web designer to sort this out?
Please note that you must be logged in to the message boards to be able to see the Reply To buttons. This is because you can only interact with the discussions or start new ones if you are a member. If you are not logged in, you can only read the boards. I hope this clears up any confusion about disappearing buttons. Ed
Mon Nov 7 02:11:45 2005
Gerry_Sevenoaks
Something seems technically very wrong with your new message board site: I can't see any 'Reply to Message' or 'Start New Discussion' buttons. Judging by the very noticeable lack of new posts, it looks like I'm not alone ! Please fix whatever's gone wrong - I've tried four browsers but without success.
From the editor
Hi Gerry, sorry to hear you are having problems with the new boards. If you navigate to the Commuter message board, either by going straight to the message boards or by using this link
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/england/F2770282?
thread=1335358&phrase=commuting there is an option to "reply to this message" below each comment. Click on this is you would like to reply or participate in the discussion. I hope this helps.
Thu Nov 3 00:16:06 2005
Gerry Sevenoaks
Your new Message Board is a DISASTER ! Improvement means WORSE. There are no benefits at all, it's much more difficult to read (the DDA police will get you !) and logging in and all the legal stuff is one big and unnecessary pain. It seems to have deterred almost everyone from posting. It must be the brainchild of the team that ruined the BBC TV Weather Forecasts ! Please scrap this '376' of a message board and restore the 'Slam Door' version that worked perfectly: IF IT AIN'T BROKE, DON'T FIX IT !
Tue Nov 1 23:13:07 2005
Jonny (to greenhithe?)
Hi Lucy - Thanks for your reply. 50-55mins you say? Oh dear - i looked at the timetable and it says 40mins for some of the trains. Is there a distinction between fast and semi-fast? (or rather embarassingly slow and painfully slow, haha) One bit of good news i heard is that getting on at greenhithe and charing cross should at least mean my wife could get a seat (as opposed to dartford & london bridge resp.).
Mon Oct 31 17:14:20 2005
Lucy, Dartford
Brian of Meopham - in the sterotypical world that we live in, technically chavs don't work so they don't commute, so get your facts right before making nasty comments, this is a chat room for commuters to exchange information not for snobs to gloat about where they live! Johnny from London - I commute in from Dartford to Charing x and find the actual journey time is between 50 and 55 minutes. I would say it is reliable about 90% of the time. Moving further out towards Sevenoaks wouldn't make much difference to the time of your journey but would cost a hell of a lot more to get to work.
Mon Oct 31 16:00:07 2005
Jane, Rainham
What's going on South Eastern Trains? This morning's final train into Cannon Street was actually early into London Bridge. I've used this service about 3 days a week for the last year or so and it must be about the first time. Usually it's 5 to 10 minutes late. If this service is maintained what will the board's posters have to moan about? I trust normal service will be resumed tomorrow?
Mon Oct 31 12:54:39 2005
Gary, Tunbridge Wells
This has to be one of the worst public transport services in Europe. The trains are constantly late, normally citing the reason as congestion at London Bridge. Having had the same old argument with ticket staff at renewal time year after year, they constantly tell me that I am not entitled to a refund as the trains are on time 85% of the time. Having argued that this cannot be the case as I the trains that I travel on regularly arrive late at least 5 times a week, I have subsequently found out that they take the weekend timetable into account when conjouring up these figures.Any idiot could get a train to arrive on time at the weekend when there is nowhere near the volume of traffic as there is during the week.
Mon Oct 31 10:38:36 2005
Andrew, Sittingbourne
For you more aged commuters/rail users out there..... how badly, if at all, were the railways affected by rain/leaves/snow etc 20, 30 or 40 years ago? I bet nowhere near as bad as they make out these days....
Mon Oct 31 09:11:27 2005
O.V.S. Bullied
Anon2, Sir, I met up with my friend Stanier yesterday evening (he keeps a watching brief on the old LMS) and he told me a story that really worries me with regard to computers taking over the anti-slip when drivers are trying to brake their trains. It would seem that, in 1979, after delivery of the 508 units to the Southern and before they were sent to Liverpool there was much worry about this very topic. Set 508002 was fitted with a driver's wheelslip protection override button. If that was the case then why should it be different now my friend?
Sun Oct 30 15:50:06 2005
Anon2
Paul, Chatham: Light rain will mess up the service no end. It mixes with the leaves/grease/oil/pollution and makes a goo that is not only slippery, but doesn't conduct electricity, which can cause problems with the signalling (track circuit issues) and will affect the return path of the traction current. A heavy downpour will wash away most of this mess and actually clean the rails. Bob, Barham: "Poor railhead conditions" is actually a genuine reason (see above). There are other factors as well. In the days of steam, foliage was cut back due to the fire risk. Until recently, it has been allowed to grow right up to the lineside and when the leaves fell, they are crushed by the train and the sap & leaf mush that is left on the railhead, causing the problems detailed above. This year a mix of cutting back trees and more effective sandite train ops by NR has significantly helped, but this is still an ongoing problem. Another factor is the weight of trains. A steam engine weighed in excess of 100 tons, which is the same weight as approximately 3 modern coaches. With a typical modern motor coach only weighing approx. 40 tons, this lower weight means there is less downwards/gravitational force (1/3 less) pressing the wheels onto the rails, so they are more likely to slip and slide. On the positive side, the new lightweight design allows for greater efficiency, reduced fuel costs, etc.
Sat Oct 29 12:48:17 2005
Harry Ivatt, Broadstairs.
O.V.S.Bulleid. Oliver, yesterday's "scrapper" was the last movement of slamdoor stock on SET. It is possible that there is the odd carriage hanging around, but not having been past Chart Leacon in the last six weeks, I certainly cannot gainsay your posting. I had the pleasure of seeing of seeing 21C123 & 35005 on the Bluebell last week. Magnificent - they do you credit. Harry.
Fri Oct 28 18:10:21 2005
Brian Reynolds Meopham
Soon to be Johnny at Greenhithe? Forget commuting from Gravesend, Greenhithe or Dartford absolute rubbish!. I commute from Meopham which is 26 miles from Victoria and even for a mainline service this is bad with a door to door journey for me of 1 hour 40 minutes in the morning. If you want to move into Kent, move to somewhere such as Headcorn or Staplehurst. You can be in London in 1 hour 30 minutes, live in proper Kent and not concrete Kent and travel up with respectable folk and not the North Kent chavs that so frequently get on the North Kent lines. Good Luck!
Fri Oct 28 16:25:15 2005
Chris Fribbins (Medway)
PR, the 5% penalty for poor reliability on Kent Coast services finished in December 2004 as the service over the preceeding year had exceeded the trigger level - this has continued above the trigger level, so no discount. The Kent Metro services, however have not exceeded the trigger level (over the preceeding 12 months) so the 5% discount still applies to those tickets - it has exceeded the trigger level on recent months so it is only a few more months before that goes as well. Fares on Kent Coast increased by c.3% last year, the loss of the 5% made it 8% in practice. Kent Metro seasons went up by nearer 9% last year, if this happens again in January and the discount goes, it will mean 14% increases!.
Fri Oct 28 14:26:07 2005
Dave, Sheerness
I do not understand why any time is factored in to allow for low rail adhesion. One station could be ok, the next not. One day ok, the next not. It is unpredictable. All factoring a loss of time in to the timetable will do is delay the trains which were running on time. I believe the best action would be to NOT allow extra time for bad conditions. OK, so on damp drizzly mornings in the leaffall season (which thankfully is almost behind us again), no trains will be on time - and i accept that, because like other posters i would rather be delayed at each station accelerating and braking than be on a train affected by another train spadding or going through a station. But in better conditions the trains would not only run to time but give a faster journey. And by the way - the wrong kind of rain is the drizzly type, a good heavy rain actually helps matters as it cleans the railhead.
Fri Oct 28 13:49:46 2005
Becky, Gravesend
Johnny - I have spent the last three years commuting from Gravesend. Yes there are days when it all goes to pot but generally the service is ok. I think reliability is not as bad as when under Connex. The trains usually run on time and you can always get a seat at Greenhithe (except on the days when things goes really wrong). Also in Winter they seem to run ok... the trains (unlike the tubes) seem to be able to cope with a sprinkling of snow. I wouldn't worry about the commute but then I have never known different!!!
Fri Oct 28 12:46:59 2005
Bob, Barham
Hi Charlie, Tonbridge - I'm sorry, I was in Paris yesterday, returning on a Eurostar that was 4 minutes early at Calais and 13 minutes late at Ashford due to poor regulation by Eurotunnel. I think you misunderstand my note - I have not suggested that drivers are to blame, I am on their side, but the continued excuses put out by SET. The timetable has been extended by 3 minutes to account for leaffall so that cannot be used as an excuse in itself. I think that there is general agreement here (by SET drivers?) that a normal schedule will allow an 8% recovery allowance - or 8.8 minutes between Ramsgate and London (thats 11 minutes). Then we have the additional padding - the 07.02 from Chatham to Victoria being allowed 52 minutes instead of the normal 375 capability of 39 minutes (thats a total of 24 minutes of spare time) - more than enough recovery from "poor rail conditions" without an extra 10 - 15 minutes being required. "Poor Rail Conditions" is a relatively new excuse unknown over 10 years ago when the rolling stock would operate quite happily providing the normal sandite/deicer and ghost trains were operated (and no additional time was allowed). It comes down to SET not managing their business planning as they should and not the fault of operations staff. So drivers do not and should not behave like boy racers as they should have more than enough spare time in their schedule to run on time - if SET HQ would put the other elements of a good service in place rather than simply looking at their reportable statistics which do not (unlike hospitals and schools) measure the "passenger experience" of their operation.
Fri Oct 28 11:30:21 2005
Paul, Chatham
Pete, Faversham - less of "gloomy Medway" - it's my home and I lurve it!! Thank you for interesting note about penultimate "fast" to Cannon St. Actually the last "fast" was the nearest to advertised arrival time in London that it has been for several days. Actually the guard on the service did explain what had happened earlier in some detail. Mind you, we were a couple of coaches missing. Amusingly on the SETrains report on Radio Kent it was suggested that this morning's "traction problems" were exacerbated by the light rain that had been falling - the wrong type of rain?!!
Fri Oct 28 11:08:34 2005
Gerry Chatham
Jonny London (soon to be greenhithe) Jonny- stay where you are mate. Wish I had stayed in London(moved to kent 2.5 years ago). At least when London Underground is up the duff you have various other options to get to work. SE Trains.........Train announcments are rare. Customer services are a joke. Trains always packed - lucky to get a seat on some of the newer trains and if you do - you're at risk of catching DVT because of lack of leg room. 3 out of my 5 morning trains this week were either delayed or cancelled. Some (not all) staff are rude/unhelpful. Lack of staff at train staions. Inability to purchase a ticket on a Monday morning as ticket offices are now like ghost towns. No visible security pressence at staions late at night. Dirty stations. Expensive fares. Ticket barrier staff who think they have the powers of highly educated QC's. If we get a bad winter this year you can forget any type of service from SE Trains. And when you are unable to purchase a ticket at your starting staion because the ticket machines are broke/no staff etc you are made to feel like a villian by the revenue control inspectors at london terminal stations.
IT sounds like I am being very negative- I have good reason. Kent IS a lovely place to live. It would be excellent if WE,THE CUSTOMERS, were offered value for money, clean trains that run on time and overall, a Train company that puts the customers first in their list of priorities. Just look at the comments left by everyone else on here then make up your own mind.
Fri Oct 28 11:07:36 2005
Chris Fribbins, Medway
Jonny (London), The building of Bluewater (and then additional housing)has given Greenhithe a pretty good service - both stoppers and semi-fast trains to London (and the stoppers only have one extra stop on the way to Dartford), but did slow journey times down for us in Gravesend/Higham/Strood - beware that a very small number of trains in the peak hours do not stop at Greenhithe. Being the country side of Dartford, it would be unusual not to find a seat going up to London or back - problems normally start at London Bridge on the return journeys. I have to be careful here, but services on this line continued to run even when the Kent Coast service had problems in the last winter or two.
Fri Oct 28 09:50:57 2005
D, Faversham
Andrew, Sittingbourne. The last train from Victoira is not scheduled to stop at Bromley South in normal circumstances. The reason for your delay is that part of the line between Bromley and Rochester was closed for planned engineering works. Presumably they decided to stop at Rochester as the last stopping service via Longfield had been replaced partly by bus services. I emailed SET a few weeks ago about how badly advertised their Engineering Works were - particularly those in midweek - they said they would try and improve it. As for the announcements, I agree, that was pretty bad form.
Fri Oct 28 09:45:25 2005
Peter, Faversham
To all you Medway and Sittingbourne moaners. Just like to let you know about the 7:40 from Faversham to Cannon Street [the penultimate fast Cannon Street service] this morning. You'll have seen us whizzing through your stations on what will have been described as a 'cancelled' train to you. Anyway the train left Faversham 15 minutes late and ran 'fast' to London Bride then Cannon Street, arriving about 15 minutes late - how late would it have been if it made all the booked stops? Anyway, the moral of this story is this: you people in dark and gloomy Medway would be well advised to move to beautiful Faversham (The Market Town of Kings) - it's a bit further up the line but the train service is far more resiliant.
Fri Oct 28 09:36:20 2005
John, Sevenoaks
I've had a further reply from SET saying that Sarah Furlong acted correctly by refusing to accept my season ticket application on the grounds that I am not the householder. If the office at Cannon Street really did not have access to season ticket records from the old season ticket office at Tonbridge, that is clearly SET's problem and not the customer's, so I should not have been penalised. Also they mention that a £3.85 surcharge is correct in the circumstances, but Plymouth actually charged £5.20. Not a big difference but the discrepancy does indicate a certain amount of incompetence at SET.
Fri Oct 28 09:09:22 2005
Steve, Rainham
Andrew in Sittingbourne: Let that be a lesson to you to support your local team. ;-)
Fri Oct 28 08:01:14 2005
O.V.S. Bullied
Harry Ivatt, Broadstairs - there is/was one at Chart Leacon as well - sitting behind a 4Vep.
Thu Oct 27 21:47:23 2005
Gravesend
JonnyI commute on the trains on a daily basis. I am not sure on the relability on that train on the morning as I travel up much earlier. The service comeing home is pretty reliable ablthough it does get very busy. If it is the older trains then there are always seats at Charing Cross for everyone but if it's a new train then you can guarantee that your wife will stand up about 85% of the way.
Thu Oct 27 21:32:15 2005
JLBP, Sittingbourne
What is it with people at Bromley South - are there special rules for them? Without fail, when I sit in the first class section at the front of the train on the service via Chatham to London, there is reasonable takeup of seats to Chatham, where it is about 'half-full' (in terms of actual seats taken. This provides the first class passanger with the extra room they've paid for. Get to Bromley South and (during the up to 10 minutes wait there - who said there was no 'padding') people pile on and will insist on getting in the first class area - mostly without tickets (as you can often tell from their conversations). What can you do? Oh, well they could check tickets between Bromley and Victoria, but that would be too clever wouldn't it!
Thu Oct 27 18:04:34 2005
Harry Ivatt, Broadstairs.
ATTENTION SLAMDOOR FANS! Today's "Scrapper" for Shoeburyness left Ramsgate @ 09.11, 3 minutes early. It comprised GBRf liveried 66713 "Forest City" hauling 4Veps 3565, 3545 & 3568. This is the last scrap move to take place from Ramsgate. There are no more "slammers" on SET. 1951 - 2005. R.I.P. Your last chance to ride these fine units will be "The Southern Slammer" railtour on 19 November, jointly organised by Southern & Southern Elelctric Group.
Thu Oct 27 17:39:50 2005
Charlie, Tonbridge
Bob at Barham, what point are you trying to make with your "No, you have already added 3 minutes... etc"? That there were no delays yesterday morning? Or that there shouldn't have been delays? Surely the whole point of the travel news broadcast is to report what IS happening, not a Stalinist rewrite of history. I can assure you that there was a lot of early morning dew and mist yesterday morning and this morning, which seems to cause the "slipping" delays. I for one would prefer the driver of my train to err on the side of caution if all is not well, rather than go tearing around like some boy racer, overshoot a signal and possibly hit the train in front. Perhaps I could ask, do you drive a car? If so do you drive differently on a hot summer day to when it is raining hard? If not you are a fool.
Thu Oct 27 17:25:06 2005
Christopher Betterton, Rocheser
Re Adam of Gillingham's point that no commuter likes to arrive late every day - to be honest I would rather arrive late every day but receive a refund on my ticket than arrive at the same time (but miraculously now "on time") and be forced to pay an 8%+ rise in the cost of my season ticket.
Thu Oct 27 17:04:25 2005
Harry Ivatt, Broadstairs.
Anon2. Thanks for the Sandtite update. There was one in the siding at Deal this morning. Thanks also for not pointing out my clanger - the 2Hap-based Sandtites were in RAILTRACK blue/green livery, not Notwork Rail. Travelling yesterday, I was at the back of a 375 on top of the rear bogie set, and the flatspot was so bad that the guard phoned through to the CMEE Dep't to request that the unit be stopped. Whether this was acted on or not, I don't know, but I haven't seen or heard anything to indicate if the unit was stopped on the way to CX.
Thu Oct 27 17:01:14 2005
Simon, Gravesend:
People are as unhappy as they were under Connex.
Trains are cramped, uncomfortable and still delayed. Prices are ridiculously high for the value they bring. Customers are told that changes are made in 'consultation' but rarely are their views actually represented in the final product, if they have been asked at all in reality.
GOne are the days when people had a genuine respect for the railways and would go for a ride on the train out of pure pleasure. You have to go on a luxury tour train for that now.
I've said my peice.
Thanks,
SImon
Thu Oct 27 16:13:54 2005
PR
Hello Just wanted to confirm... I normally by my season ticket from Rainham To Basingstoke and normally get the 5% discount due the the service not being as it should. I am told this year that the discount is not applicable and it is the full fare. Is this correct? if so its the first time in I cannot remember how many years that this has been the case! PR
Thu Oct 27 15:36:33 2005
Adam Gillingham
In reply to chris's posting on the timetale. Whilst your concerns over mixtures of stock with different maximum running speeds are warrented thier are simple timetabling ways round this. We currently have fast trains and slows down the chatham mains with stoppers to faversham and fasts to the coast. With some clever timetabling and a greater use of the four tracks at rochester to pass slow and fast trains to and from the sole street bank, and using the passenger loops at newington for a similar operation, faster "fasts" can be fitted amongst the "slows". All it takes is someone at SET to take the idea forward.
Thu Oct 27 14:56:59 2005
Jonny, London (soon to be greenhithe?)
Dear All,
I'm thinking of moving to the greenhithe area. My wife will have to catch the commuter train every day from Greenhithe up to CX. I've looked at the timetable and 45mins seems to be the time for the 7.27am service. Can message boarders please comment on the actual reliability of this service, the state of crowding on rush-hour trains and , finally, if you reckon this journey is too painful too bear and that we should stay in SE London. I've heard some rumours of v cold weather this winter: is this likely to just shut the service down for days at a time? And helpful responses would be much appreciated. Thanks.
Thu Oct 27 14:20:14 2005
Andrew, Sittingbourne
Fun getting home last night, after watching my team knock Chelsea out of the cup!
Got the last train from Victoria, which strangely wasnt advertised as stopping at Bromley South. No further information than it just missing from the list of stops. Train departs on time, again with no information from the driver. Train is due to be fast to Chatham, 'fast' not being a word I'd use as we slowly trundled down to Peckham Rye. Next thing I notice is we're going through Lewisham. Eh? That's not the usual route. Again no info from the driver. Next we go through Charlton, Woolwich and Dartford. By this point, a lot of people have already arranged to be picked up from Chatham, Gillingham etc. Through the Higham tunnel we go..... and then stop at Rochester. Rochester? Since when was that listed as a stop for this train? Even the overheads said next stop Chatham. Cue mad rush for people that want to get off at Rochester.... some didnt make it before the doors closed. Flipping useless. Why didnt the driver make an announcement about any of the above? And we were on the train from the time the doors opened so there's no way we missed any annoucements. Oh, and she made a couple annoucements at Victoria saying we wouldnt be stopping at Orpington (????), so the speakers and mic were clearly working ok...... crap service.
Thu Oct 27 12:32:11 2005
Anon2
Harry: The converted Mk1 Sanditers I believe are now obsolete in general (although I don't know what Hastings Diesels still has in stock). Instead, we now have the new Network Rail owned and operated MPV trains, which are custom made for the job. You can recognise them as they are essentially several diesel powered flatbed trailers with a large round water tank one end and several large metal cabinets on the other. There are plenty of them around, I believe they are based near Gatwick. Visit Google and search for: MPV sandite. (If acceptable by message board admin, a good link to a picture is of one is here: http://www.joehooker.co.uk/network_rail_windhoff_mpv_l.jpg). OVS: Straight from the horses mouth following a conversation earlier today, I am able to offer an answer to your question regarding WSP and rheo braking. As soon as WSP activity is detected, rheo braking is disabled until the driver takes power again. So when your medium observed the WSP action several days ago, the train would have been stopped by friction brakes alone on the run into Hildenborough. As with any modern train, when it detects an axle slipping or sliding (WSP), the 'computer' will always take over and the brakes will act similar to ABS on a car to stop the train in the shortest possible distance - a little grip is better than no grip and then just sliding for miles with locked wheels, therefore resulting in the inevitable "flats". I am guessing that your medium friend simply observed a mix of good and bad railhead conditions on the approach to Hildenborough - nothing to worry about.
Thu Oct 27 12:03:19 2005
Victor, Gillingham
Sue, Higham - you are wrong. The reason my train was diverted on Monday was not due to the line being closed between Strood and Gravesend. My Cannon Street trains do not travel up that line. They follow the Victoria line up until St Mary Cray before passing through Chiselhurst and heading up via Hither Green and New Cross. The reason for the diversion was points / signal problems (can't remember which) at London Bridge. Thank you.
Thu Oct 27 10:09:54 2005
Chris Fribbins, Medway
Now the slam-door stock has been removed we have a 'stable' environment for a while (until 2009/2010). As I understand it the Networker 465/466 combinations (also 376 Suburban Electrostar) have a top speed of 75mph (it was not increased as part of the 'refresh'). The former Networker Express (365s?) had a higher top speed but these were taken off of Connex and re-located elsewhere. The 375s have a top speed of about 100mph, but line speeds rarely above 90mph. The power upgrade to support the higher requirements of the 375s does not allow full acceleration/braking in all cases as software modifications were made to reduce the power draw - although there was a power upgrade previoiusly on Networker routes. Now we have shared 75mph and 90/100mph stock on the same tracks, the timetable has to allow for that (another concern of the former RPC when we were told that the Networkers would be cascaded to longer routes). Because of this I do not see any significant changes to the timetable coming up, although this was one of the major benefits that the new trains were supposed to bring. There are often 3-5 minute waits on services from Cannon Street and Victoria at Chatham station each evening. Bottom line - this is it for the next 4-5 years!.
Thu Oct 27 08:32:16 2005
Steve, Folkestone
Not content with timetable padding and late trains ( I have not had one on-time journey in or out of London so far this week) SET have figured out another way of creating problems for the commuter. For the second time this month Folkestone Central station was not unlocked in time for commuters to catch the first train through to London. Last time I wrote to SET and received a polite but superficial reply. Once, I can just about accept, twice is downright poor management. Do any of our SET employees who read this Board have any comments ?
Thu Oct 27 07:40:48 2005
Anon2
Adam, Gillingham: Just a minor correction, Networkers (465/466) only have a maximum speed of 75mph (as do 376 and 508 stock). The only "Networker" that could operate above this speed was the 365, which were relocated to the Anglian region last year (max speed 100mph). Slamdoor trains had a max. speed of 90mph, and the current 375 mainliners have a max speed of 100mph (of which there is very little suitable track). Strangely, I've been told there is typically 10,000A available from the live rail, but perhaps that is on the parts upgraded for Eurostar? Some very interesting information though - it must be good to have access to that type of information! Totally agreed that it's actually in the drivers interests to always keep to time, even if only to reduce paperwork! ***Bob, Barham: The only equipment available to improve railhead conditions are the Sandite /waterjet trains operated by Network Rail (not SET). If you are the train immediately behind the Sanditer, it is generally MORE slippery than the leaves alone! It is only subsequent trains after that which benefit. ***Andrew, Sittingbourne: With respect, comparing top speeds of the TGV with a typical British EMU is like comparing chalk with cheese. One is designed for high speed intercity journeys on dedicated high speed lines with very few station stops over a substantial distance, whilst the other is designed for high density commuter routes with many stations in a much shorter distance. Incidentally, TGVs actually accelerate slower than our trains due to their high speed gearing. My point was that the French HEAVILY pad their timetables; even on my busy TGV, everyone had disembarked at Lille within several minutes, yet the train remained in the platform for at least *10 mins* after that (certainly, after we'd left the building after accidentally taking a wrong turn!). In the UK I believe we are only talking about 2-3 minutes tops.
Wed Oct 26 21:44:53 2005
Dave, Sheerness
Adam, Gillingham - a silly point really especially as i agree with your post but networkers are limited to a maximum of 75 mph.
Wed Oct 26 21:36:53 2005
Harry Ivatt, Broadstairs
Anon2. Have you still got any Sandtites left? I've seen photos on someone's Photopic site of three units in the old blue & green Network Rail livery, in the Medway area being taken for scrap, and I was under the impression that was the lot. I think there may still be one at Hastings, but wouldn't swear to it. As regards 4Cep 1698, she went off-hire once she returned to Ramsgate from London Bridge after the final leg of the "Southern Belle" railtour on 17 September. She went to Immingham the following Tuesday ( 20 Sept. ), hauled by 67005 "Queen's Messenger". She is still there with sister units 1697 & 1699. Any update will naturally be posted.
Wed Oct 26 18:22:05 2005
Sue, Higham
Victor, Gillingham - The reason your train was diverted to Victoria on Monday was because the line was closed between Strood and Gravesend and a replacement bus service was in operation. I know it can be a problem not going to the correct station but diverting the train was obviously easier than getting one train then a bus and then another train. In fact friends of mind who travel from Higham went to Rochester and caught the train to Victoria and were quicker than my journey from Gravesend to London even taking into account that we had to travel on the tube aswell.
Wed Oct 26 17:52:34 2005
Anon2
Hello All. Just to clarify a few things. I'm NOT fighting SET's cause, just giving an unbiased opinion based on my own experiences. Whilst I can't comment on the Faversham line as I've never been that way (well, once MANY years ago), my own local mainline had a mix of slamdoor and modern units. The time from my station to London has always been 'xx' minutes, the timetable hasn't changed in many years. Yet I have noticed that usually 375s DO sit in most stations for 1-2 minutes whilst most trips on slamdoors have been pretty much "stop & go", hence my comments/beliefs in said previous posting. Also, I was not mixing Bob's excellently researched statistics with the current timetable, but commenting purely on my recent experiences with extended station dwell times with certain types of stock. I'd be interested to know which routes people have noticed this 'padding', and which types of stock (slamdoor/375/376/465/508, etc.) are used. Would also be interested to know if it's mainline or suburban/metro services that are affected. I feel to get a truer picture of what is really happening, we will have to wait 6 weeks for the new timetable, and however long it takes for the weather to clear up... OVS: If you wish I can give you a general overview on how WSP works in general, but as I don't sign 375s I really couldn't say whether or not the rheo braking is disabled under such conditions. What I do know about them is there is definately no manual over-ride, the brake is purely a 4-step "Westcode" so far as the driver is concerned. I do know some 375 drivers, so next time I'm chatting I'll ask the question...
Wed Oct 26 17:20:36 2005
Adam Gillingham
regarding the postings on train times acceleration profiles of new stock. some interesting points people might need to be aware of. Firstly a point about the acceleration profile of the new 375 trains. The new faster acceleration profile is available but is only usable on 4 car formations. This is due to the amount of current that is drawn from the third rail. the units work best drawing 2,200amps however due to budgetry cutbacks the third rail can (and will for the foreseeable future) only muster 4000amps. thus when 12 car formations arrive they effectively have 4 carriages unpowered, thus slowing the trains down. Due to the power to weight ratios being similar for 375 and 365/465/466, 375s are currently being timed as networkers. Even taking into account the reduced current available on longer trains, conversations with knowledgable people, and data from other sources suggest that the 375 should operate faster and NOT slower than the current networker timings. Also it appears that many trains are being timed with a maximum speed of 75mph. both networkers and 375s can exceed this, and when linespeed is considered, over some longer sectiosn of the route to be up to 90mph, we can see that Journey times will be slower. Whilst some increase in overall journey times (the 8% that mr Bullied refered too is considered accpetable,) from a reliability and robustness point of view, is desirable (as no commuter like sto be constantly late) the increases seen (excluding allowances for leaf fall) of around 20% (or 10 minutes, gillingham london victoria) is clearly unacceptable. Oh and don't blame the drivers please, they are required to ensure that the timetable is met and can recieve repremands if they are too early or late!.
So SET Please tell us why you time new trains so much slower than you actually need to or will your slience confirm what we all know or suspect, that it is purely to do with performance targets set down by the government?. What are peoples thoughts. . .
Wed Oct 26 16:18:48 2005
Bob, Barham
Did anyone hear the Radio Kent "SET" travel information this morning? Delays of 10 - 15 minutes due to "Poor Rail Conditions". No, you have already added 3mins time to the schedules and have spent money on equipment to alieviate the effects of poor rail conditions.
Wed Oct 26 13:30:43 2005
Andrew, Sittingbourne
Yeah and the Franch TGV reaches what speeds once it's moving?! It puts ours to shame.
Wed Oct 26 11:24:20 2005
HK, Faversham
Anon2, regarding the timetable padding, the journey between Faversham and Cannon Street takes between 4 to 10 minutes longer compared to when I started using the service 8 years ago when most if not all trains were the slammers. So, your explanation of its being result of mixing newer/older stocks sounds like ill-thought excuse. If the time a train wait at station had become simply noticeable with the same scheduled journey time as before and with newer stocks only, you could have got away with it. Or if we saw the journey time cut shorter than pre-timetable padding days ,that now there's only newer trains, I'd believe it.
Wed Oct 26 10:13:50 2005
D, Faversham
Anon2 - You obviously wish to fight SET's case, but surely your argument that the reason the timetable is 'padded' is that we've still got some 'old' trains on the route. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but didn't those same slam-door trains run about 10 minutes faster from Faversham to Victoria not so long ago? Sadly, I tend to agree with the conspiricy theorists that the timetabled journey times have been increased to help with the statistics and (particularly) getting rid of the 5% discount.
Tue Oct 25 22:50:41 2005
O.V.S. Bullied
Anon2 - My friend, I fear that you are incorrect in your posting. May I elucidate - on the subject of timetable padding. Your eloquent explanation does not make sense in that, as we have learned in previous postings, journey times are slower now than in the past - which was when only the older trains were operating - and indeed my designs for the 4Sub units in 1938 (delivered between 1941 and 1945) were for schedules faster than today. The 375s were said to have quicker acceleration and higher running speed by your own company - so times should be shorter than before not longer. Now you are also incorrect about older stock having to travel "flat out" just to keep time. I can tell you that the point-to-point times for timetables used to include an 8% built in recovery allowance to assist drivers recover odd minutes of lost time - and I will repeat that journey times were faster then. (Perhaps I should also point to the 4Cep tour earlier in the year when Dover to Victoria was completed non stop in 69 minutes). Secondly about leaffall, I have had a quiet worried medium contacting me on the very subject of anti-lock braking on the 375 units. He had been travelling down Hildenborough Bank at speed and the driver of the train obviously had difficulties in braking because as the train braked hand failed to grip, the anti-lock cut in and seem to over-ride the brakes for a second before the brakes cut in again and so on. I was able to assure him that such events would have been a figment of his imagination and that, as with the older slam door units, where a driver could over-ride the EP brake and go straight to Westinghouse, so I would expect the same facility to have been built into the new units to over-ride the rheostatic brakes to a more positive disk braking process. He seemed unconvinced so perhaps you would kindy put his mind at rest kind sir.
Tue Oct 25 20:24:01 2005
Victor, Gillingham
The article on customer complaints in the new Get Set magazine handily gives us contact details for airing our views. 0845 and 0800 phone and fax numbers and a postal address. What is missing though is communication via the method most people find easiest and convenient to use. So, can we have an email address printed next time or are you trying to make it that bit more difficult for us to provide our comments?
Tue Oct 25 19:05:35 2005
Anon2
Harry: Thank you for the support. It's possible that current stock will be used, as has been done in the past. Failing that, we will have to rely on the sandite trains, and we know how much "fun" that is following one of them! Regarding slammers, do you know if there is any truth or further news to the rumour that Shepherd Neame were going to buy unit 1698? A
Tue Oct 25 18:51:23 2005
Victor, Gillingham
According to the latest 'Get Set' magazine, SET's focus is now on getting passengers from A to B. So how come yesterday morning my intended journey from A (Gillingham) to B (London Bridge) saw me unceremoniously dumped at Victoria (which we shall call C)? Diverting Cannon St trains to Victoria is a pain and benefits no-one (if we wanted Victoria we'd get Victoria trains). Passengers on the 07.20 from Gillingham asked if we could stop at Bromley South so they could get a connection to Blackfriars. This was apparently not possible as the controllers wanted to get the trains to London termini as soon as possible. Of course they do as we then cease to be their concern. As usual in such situations Victoria tube was then shut for ten minutes as it was overcrowded. Was there any need for a diversion anyway as, according to the SET website, the delays to services were only 15 minutes anyway? Or were they perhaps lying?
Tue Oct 25 18:48:06 2005
Anon2
Tony, Hythe: You may not be awaret the old slam-door rolling stock has only just finished in service. They accelerate and , bubrake slower than modern stock, which results in a longer journey time. They also don't enjoy the wheel slip/slide protection that the newer trains have. Timeables obviously have to be written to take account of the mixed service of *slower* & *older* stock. As there are fewer of the older trains and more of the newer trains (>90%), people are noticing the extra 1-2 mins waiting in stations that didn't occur with the old ones (which were running flat out just to keep on schedule). The timetabled times on my route into London certainly haven't been extended. IMHO it's simply a case of better performing newer stock! The current timetable ends on 10th December. Unless anyone with any inside information can suggest otherwise, I suspect the mystery "padding" will disappear then... If you want to experience true timetable padding, may I suggest a trip on a French TGV - I don't instantly have my timetables to hand to verify exact times, but on a recent trip to Lille we were off the train and well down the road before it continued to Paris (and it took about 10 mins to get out of the station). Regarding leaffall, it is something that all of us will have to endure for the next month-or-so.
Tue Oct 25 16:51:01 2005
Harry Ivatt, Broadstairs.
ATTENTION SLAMDOOR FANS. The penultimate "Scrapper", 6Z77, left Ramsgate for Caerwent @ 09.14 this morning. GBRf liveried 66702 ( Blue Lightning ) hauling 3547, 3471 & 3450. Ramsgate's final 3 sets of 4Vep will go to Shoeburyness on Thursday. Details to follow on Thursday. Anon2 - I agree with your comments, particularly in respect of leaf fall. What will happen when the weather gets really bad, and there are no "ghost trains2 to keep the way clear?
Tue Oct 25 15:42:23 2005
Tony,Hythe
Anon 2.What aload of rubbish, so because there might be a problem now we have padding for the rest of the year.I presume you work for a public sevice which I as a taxpayer pay for?
Tue Oct 25 14:49:01 2005
Anon2
Simon - Gravesend: There are 2 up platforms (D & B) and 2 down platforms (C & A) at Waterloo East which are all signalled in their respective direction only. In fact, it would be a disaster to make those lines reversible due to the frequency of the traffic in both directions on that section of line, which would result in complete gridlock, especially in the rush hour. If you were on the up fast (plat D), there is one place to cross over before W'loo East, just after Met Jn. If however you were on the up slow (Plat B), then the only place to cross over is after Waterloo East. Trains are usually crossed over to their respective up line at Met Jn with respect to which platform they are destined for at CHX (slow = P1-P3, fast = P4-P6). There is nothing wrong with the signalling system - it works quite well for a system of it's age. Don't forget there is a very strong blame culture on the railway, so perhaps the signaller was reluctant to use a little common sense incase anything went wrong, in which case it would automatically be his fault for trying to help out (such is the state of play). Sadly, most people now do it "by the book" and common sense goes out the window due to the fear of punishment, no matter how trivial the incident. This is the price we all have to pay for political correctness, H&S mania, backstabbing & buckpassing - this list is fairly endless.
Tue Oct 25 12:12:36 2005
Simon, Gravesend:
Wonderful. Once again delayed by 10 minutes into Charing X this morning. I seriously beleive that the signalling is at fault between London Bridge and Charing X as there were 3 empty platforms as we pulled into Waterloo East, 2 could have been used for the service I was on. I suspect either they are being overcautius with their gapping or are unable to cope with the number of trains going into and out of Charing X.
On another note, I see where SET want to move all their ticket office staff to....revenue protection. 3 on a late service from Charing Cross. How about improving service before enforcing payment? Myabe people will be more inclined to pay if they can buy a ticket from a human being?
Tue Oct 25 11:12:07 2005
Anon2
OVS. Regarding 465 / 375 / 376 stock. Although not quite what you asked, the 376 is essentially a 375, and hence is cleared to cover most 375 routes - including down to Dover, etc. There are many govt. documents on the web should you visit google that will publically give route clearences for most trains. I did post approx 1 week ago amongst other things regarding how the govt. have plans to make the Networkers remain in service until ~2030 (I even included 2 links) but the messageboard forum staff presumably deleted it due to this link (and several other of my posts). Does anyone actually know what the forum "rules" are on here, or is it whatever the forum staff feel like letting on each day?! I'm at the stage now where I almost can't be bothered to post as so little actually finds its way on here. Regarding the numerous posts about timetable "padding". Leaffall season is now upon us. I would almost be so daring as to wager money that those who are currently posting about the alleged "padding" will be writing about "delays" by the end of the week when the trains are slipping and sliding everywhere.
Mon Oct 24 22:18:21 2005
steve
Kate Rochester: points problem at London Bridge trains diverted into victoria to ease congestion
Mon Oct 24 18:11:53 2005
Ollie Bull-Eade, Westgate-on-Sea
Mark, S.E.London. I believe you've missed the point. Why should I be denied a service on Boxing Day, merely because of where I live?
Mon Oct 24 17:29:41 2005
Kate, Rochester
Yes Paul (Chatham) it was great to be forcibly taken to Victoria this morning. Then crushed in a scrum to get on a tube (which I have to say I no longer relish the propspect of post 7/7) To turn up at work 2 and half hours from when I left my house. There wasnt even an option of the slow Dartford service this morning as there were horses on the line and buses will replace the trains for the "forceable future." WHY OH WHY !
Mon Oct 24 14:09:53 2005
Paul, Chatham
Yet more difficulties at London Bridge this morning (lovely to be diverted to Victoria instead of Cannon St on a miserable Monday morning). Is there ever going to be a desperately needed overhaul of the Charing X/London Bridge/Cannon St tracks & signalling? Probably not.
Mon Oct 24 11:33:48 2005
Steve, Dover
TO Chris, Rochester - Believe me, I did! and
with all the various other senior managers present - not a chance i was likely to pass up - the service from Dover is pitched to make it as difficult as possible to commute into the City...
Mon Oct 24 10:58:26 2005
Chris Fribbins, Medway
Simon (Gravesend, If you check the timetable thoroughly, I think you will still find one train each day through Gravesend, Strood down to Dover and it was a 375 Electrostar the last time my son used it a while ago. But you will have to be up early in the morning - app. 5am.
Mon Oct 24 10:41:25 2005
Gravesend
Is anybody able tell explain why the 07:39 Gravesend to Cannon St. has been terminating at London Bridge? The last 3 days (Thurs. Fri. and today) I have been in a carriage where the intercom service is not working... Does anybody know? Or is this another clever idea from SET, like when they terminate trains at Dartford because they run so far behind schedule..
From an angry SET passenger
Mon Oct 24 10:29:57 2005
Christopher Betterton, Rochester
I find Bob from Barham's comments fascinating about the trains and their journey times and frequency in the past. Last time I complained to SET about the additional 10 minutes on the journey time from Chatham in the last two years (and the resulting loss of the discount) I got a reply that the extended journeys were necessary because there were far more trains running now than there were 10 years ago. It would appear that once again SET's customer service department (in Plymouth) spout a load of rot. And no one is saying that Michael Holden isn't a decent guy - for all I know he probably is - the trouble is he has turned out to be useless at running a rail franchise (useless from a passenger viewpoint at least). And if I ever meet him on a train I shall be happy to tell him that to his face.
Sun Oct 23 21:26:34 2005
O.V.S. Bullied
Mike Gibson, Sir, I am most pleased that you have acknowledged that you do monitor this message board and have made this known. I do understand your reluctance to become involved in dialogue, some of which might have the potential to turn abusive, which I am sure the more serious people would not wish to happen. May I suggest that it would not be unreasonable, sir, for you to answer direct questions from myself where this is specific and to which there is a specific answer? May I start with this specific question which has formed the basis of many recent postings - Can you state SET's policy on the allocation of 465/9 and 375/9 rolling stock to groups of services and journey lengths please? I believe that this is a straight question and one that would give you the opportunity to give a specific answer which also forms your exit strategy for not having to respond subsequently and you may leave this to other observers to discuss and probably give you feedback to which you need only note and not get further involved – your moving to the next clarification.
Sat Oct 22 11:17:18 2005
Simon, gravesend
Chris Fibbins, thanks for clearing that one up. Interesting conversation I had with my mother yesterday, she was surprised to hear that there are no longer fast services to London, and also pointed out that there are no longer any direct Kent Coast services from Gravesend. As a child I used to go to Margate directly from Gravesend, however, now, the furthest any train from Gravesend can get is Gillingham. I suspect these two services were one and the same and some bright spark thought it'd be a great idea to make Gravesend a termination point for a huge number of trains too. As there are no sidings this side of Dartford for some way, it means they all have to reverse back up to London as a new service - effectively meaning 2 trains leave in the same direction up much of the same line within a few minutes of each other.
Witness the 2 cannon street services that leave less an 10 minutes from each other after 5pm weekdays! Why is this even necessary? They go via the same loop!!!
Someone has spent a long time padding out the kent coast route that they ended up screwing up the Gravesend route!
Sat Oct 22 00:19:38 2005
Brian Reynolds Meopham
I would take everything Mike Gibson says with a pinch of salt. For the last two years I have lobbied SET and CPS for information about the car parks, investment, monthly maintenance etc. Nothing. I logged a letter under the Freedom of Information Act. SET did not respond within 20 days and took nearly three months but they never sent me an original letter but an email copy via Mike Gibson which has been evasively written and passes contentious questions back to CPS to answer. To this day CPS and SET have not managed to give me a decent, above board reply to my concerns which just goes to show how they are treating Kent commuters with car parking charges. There seems to be a real problem with SET and CPS providing normal basic information concerning a service paid for by the daily commuter.
Fri Oct 21 19:07:04 2005
Mark SELondon
Why should trains run on Boxing Day staff have every right to have xmas off as well and
Most of the Buses in London don't run on Boxing Day.
Fri Oct 21 18:40:34 2005
Commuter
Mike Gibson, you are a sport. Many thanks for your reply. Should we form a group via this message board, arrange a meeting and ask SET to deliver a manager?
Fri Oct 21 16:21:55 2005
Mike Gibson, Blackfriars Road
In response to the message from "Commuter", the SET Ambassadors are managers from a variety of disciplines who represent the company at local authority, rail user and amenity group meetings during the evenings. This is a volunatry acivity carried out in addition to their regular duties. If contributors to this message board belong to such a group and would like an SET representative at their meetings, please contact me via our website. The proper arena for dealing with passenger complaints is our Customer Services department. This way the complaints can be logged, referred to the appropriate manager for action and used to identify areas of weakness and where improvements are needed. It would not be a proper use of a manager's time to visit this, or any other message board in working hours. Mike Gibson, Public Affairs Manager, South Eastern Trains
Fri Oct 21 15:55:18 2005
Andrew, Sittingbourne
They havent run boxing day trains to Sittingbourne for the last few years..... very annoying when you want to get to football and have a few beers after all that turkey!
Fri Oct 21 12:46:04 2005
Steve, Dover
I met Michael Holden on a train recently - and he does read this board. Hes a nice bloke actually - but sorry Michael - the Dover service is still getting worse! Thanks for the refund by the way - funny that customer services found all my paperwork after you rang them directly in front of me! So - if you're gonna complain guys - go to the TOP and dont take no excuses or fob offs!
Fri Oct 21 12:03:22 2005
Anon 3
Gerry - I imagine that the reason that it took 7 days to respond to your email is that staff complaints are dealt with by senior members of staff where as other complaints are dealt with another customer service office - the senior staff have a 10 day backlog the other office doesn't. Shoudl you want to test that fill in a web comment about the delays at London Bridge today and see how quick you get a response - within 3 hours today. Im sorry I got confused when you said you sent an email - you didn't you filled in a web form. As far as Im aware people from SET (except senior management) dont look on this site during work time
Thu Oct 20 20:14:50 2005
Ollie Bull-Eade, Westgate-onSea
Commuter. Hear hear! Then perhaps they could explain why, yet again, they will not run trains further east than Gillingham or Ashford International on Boxing Day. Another example of SET running trains for their benefit, not that of commuters who line their pockets. It beggars belief!
Thu Oct 20 17:03:48 2005
Steve, Rainham
Commuter: Although it's a nice thought, I doubt whether SET would even consider using this forum as a platform for discussion. They supposedly encourage customers to contact them via their website but of course this means we as passengers cannot band together and apply pressure to them. One on one they're full of apologies and promises and we are easy to handle. If they came on here, they'd be swamped with complaints, abused and harried until they'd refuse to come on here again. All the time they make noises about addressing our problems, they have no desire to enter into public debate with people, some of whom are less than gracious it has to be said. I don't doubt they monitor the board, but I doubt they'd ever post anything. It would be can of worms time. But in case they're reading this - please leave the heating off until it's actually cold please, and let's have the 375s back on all the north Kent routes - these 376s are killing my spine.
Thu Oct 20 15:56:17 2005
Commuter
The SET website says - "South Eastern Trains has a team of ambassadors who are pleased to attend commuter, residents and amenity group meetings to brief you about the company and its proposals to improve services and answer any questions you may have." Wouldn't it be useful for them to answer questions placed on this message board?
Thu Oct 20 12:45:40 2005
Chris Fribbins, Medway
Simon (Gravesend), Like me, on occasions, I think you have got your trains mixed up. The 465 and two coach 466 are the Networkers that extend to Gillingham and Sevenoaks. The refurbished 465/9 + 466 are the Networkers that extend to Faversham/Ashford, but often detected on coast journeys as well. The new 376 Suburban Electrostar is the one with reduced seating that should be limited to journeys, ideally
Thu Oct 20 10:00:00 2005
Dave, Rainham
Simon: They're running them all the way to Dover and Ramsgate too you know. The 16.48 from Victoria is always a ropey old Notworker these days. I wrote to SET about it too and although they say "there are no plans to significantly redistribute our
375 class fleet" they don't exactly say why people who are travelling for an hour and more are subjected to these boneshaking torture instruments. They may have new upholstery and unscratched glass (at the moment) but they're still trains intended for short journeys, not the long haul to the coast. Give up any thoughts you may have about a return to semi-comfortable travel. I fear these are here to stay. Perhaps one of the Anon's could confirm?
Thu Oct 20 07:53:06 2005
gerry chatham
Anon3.
There must be a back log because the response i recieved via e-mail gives an apology for the delay in handling my complaint. (some 7 days later!!!) I can send you a copy of the e-mail if you dont believe me?
Oh, and as for suggesting that i may be sending the complaint to the wrong address- I used the SE TRAINS WEBSITE MATE! Try it yourself.....there is a link to your ever so wonderful customer services department. So any problems arising are not my incompetence- its ALL down to your company, your companies website and your companies HIGHLY TRAINED(?) staff. lol lol lol lol
BTW, as for quality, the person who looked into my complaint didnt actually read my e-mail properly and dealt with the wrong person. Maybe if staff stop spending sooooooo much time on this site , they might be able to read and investigate complaints PROPERLY and PROMPTLY!
Answers on a postcard to...........
Thu Oct 20 07:51:25 2005
Tom, Kent
I think what Anon 3 was getting at Gerry was that alot of call centres are in India now adays and maybe he thought that was what you are hinting at, National Rail Enquiries is in India though but SET hads no plans to move ...
Wed Oct 19 22:26:10 2005
Brian Reynolds Meopham
I totally agree with the comment concerning providing rolling stock in the peak periods at full length ie 10 and 12 coaches. What privatisation has given us, is a service whereby all coaches were reduced overnight when Connex took over and as has carried forward under SET. I have letters from SET stating that certain services will be overcrowded because of their popularity. What rubbish! If all peak trains were run for passengers with total lengths in mind as under the BR days, overcrowding would be substantially reduced and yes longer distance services and short distance services could be spaced accordingly. There's a total lack of future planning and innovation in the privatised railway and it will only get worse under the future franchise.
Wed Oct 19 16:55:10 2005
Don, Ashford
Steve PW, I agree, They should not be on the Ashford line. When I travelled on these trains on the Bexleyheath line we asked for air con but were told that the trains made to many stops for it to work properly as they were designed to work the inner suburban routes only which are short journey times. Now it suites them, they are running them on the Ashford line which I now travel on. They still do not have air con and half windows still do not open. Has anyone notice how many more cancelled trains we get on the Ashford line now we have the re-furbished trains ?
Wed Oct 19 14:34:18 2005
Gerry Chatham
anon 3
Also, i stated that the customer service centre is based in the third world.
You was the one that stated/specified India!!!!!!!!!
May be you know something we customers dont?
Wed Oct 19 13:05:51 2005
robbie, Lydd
Interesting information about trains in 1976 from Bob at barham. I wonder if the difficulties SET have with running a reduced service now is anything to do with the signalling. i imagine things are more automated now and there are less local signal staff, the loss of the latter would certainly weaken the processing power of the network. I know from my own area of work that when an all singing and dancing computer system was introduced a few years ago that our flexibility and customer service actually fell because all our proceedures had to be changed, we ended up feeding the computer rather than deliver the service. I am no luddite but managements seem to believe IT will solve all their problems, even if its use is inappropriate.
Wed Oct 19 11:19:51 2005
Simon, Gravesend
Yesterday I wrote to SET to complain about the poor quality of service through Gravesend. Particularly at the quality of stock being used, namely the 465s. According to SET, they do not use these trains on routes that exceed 45 minutes. So why are they using them to gravesend? Every single service is scheduled from between 50 mins to 1 hour? Typically the 50 minute services carry on to Gilingham, that would exceed 1 hour 20 minutes! So they are actually using the wrong stock to run a route that exceeds by 35 minutes maximum service!
I have replied suggesting they run more 365s down that route, particularly for the Gilingham service. Once again today, delays. This time, 2 signal failures. I got in 20 minutes late despite setting out at half 7.
Thanks National Rail or whatever you are these days!
Wed Oct 19 09:33:17 2005
Bob, Barham
Anon2 - Thanks for your kind words, of course I can give you some journey time comparisons. Ashford now has the fastest ever off-peak service so 56 minutes from Waterloo would be reasonable during the peak as well. Canterbury's fastest was 76 mins from Cannon St in 1962. Chatham was 39 mins from Cannon St for many years. Dartford was 25 mins from London Bdge for many years. Dover was 87 mins from Waterloo in 1976. Faversham was 59 mins from Cannon St for many years Folkestone was 75 mins from Waterloo in 1976. Gravesend was 35 mins from London Bdge for many years. Margate was 86 mins from Cannon St via Chatham in 1962 and Ramsgate was 89 mins from Cannon St via Ashford. Other main stations are about the same as the years mentioned above. In 1976 there were 5 trains for the Kent Coast via Chatham instead of 3 now and the metro area had 7 trains via the Catford Loop in the peak hour, 11 metro services via Herne Hill - 6 Victoria and 5 Blackfriars, 11 trains via the Dartford Loop (or Sidcup as it is now called) and there were through trains from London to Bromley North.
Tue Oct 18 21:52:00 2005
