Interview with Bill Williams part 1

MEMORY OF WILLIAM (BILL) WILLIAMS

I’m sitting here with Bill in his nice warm bungalow about to do the recording.

Now what is your full name Bill?
William Williams. Now ask me why my mother called me William?

I’ll ask you why you’re mother called you William?
I was named after her brother who was killed on the Somme in 1917.
And there is no known grave. So that’s got that out of the way.

And what was your date of birth?
4/5/24.

So at the outbreak of war that would make you?
I was 15

And where were you born?
Just down from Pendleton House, 12a Broughton Road, Pendleton.
Why we’ve got the a, it was actually the living accommodation to Hancock’s Jewellers which was on Whit Lane. But it were blocked off and let off as rented accommodation.

Were you born there?
Yes.

And did you live there for some time or did you move to some other accommodation?
I lived there until I was 7 or 8. My father was a railway carter. So we moved from one railway house to another railway house.

Did he work locally?
He worked at Salford Goods Station.

And did your mother work at all?
No. Not after I was born.

And were there any other children in your family?
No.

Where did you go to school then?
I started off at St George’s Primary School Charlestown and then various schools, Regent Road, Regent Street with moving to different houses and I finished up at St Thomas’.

Was that in Pendleton?
That’s behind St Thomas’ church. It was a church school.

Right o.k. You were 15 then. How aware were you that war was about to start?
I wasn’t really aware at 15, no.
You were just doing boys things at 15?
Yes. 15 years old you were enjoying yourself weren’t you.

Were you working at this time?
Oh yes I was working at Elkaneh Armitages.

And what was that?
A mill.

And what did they produce there?
Cotton. There was three mills in one. Bottom mill, middle mill, top mill. Bottom mill did all the coarse weaving, middle mill was all the doubling and spinning and top mill all the fine, guiding.

Do you remember the day war was declared?
Well I do actually because it was Sunday morning and I went for a ride on the bike and I was up Irlam and passing this sweet shop and I called in to get an aero, and it was one of these shops with a door and with living accommodation at the back and the door was open and the radio was on and as he was giving me this six minute aero I heard Chamberlain say his speech, you know “we are now at war with Germany”

Did it mean anything to you then?
I high tailed it back. Yes. I thought great.

So you were quite
Chuffed

I’ve met this with quite a few people that I have interviewed they were quite elated that this was going to happen really.
It was the wrong view, but you were kids weren’t you?

Yes. So were you evacuated at all?
No.

You continued to work in the mill?
Yes

Did you then volunteer?
No. With working in the cotton mill it was what you called exempt from service, you see. But when I was about 17 I said to my father, who was in the first world war, with my grandfather and all my uncles “I think I’ll volunteer” and he said “You do and I’ll strip the hide off you”. You see. So I joined the home guard instead.

And where was that?
Oulton Bank.

Did it have a number at all?
We were attached to Cross Lane Barracks. 8th Lancashire Fusiliers, Cross Lane Barracks, but we did it at Oulton Bank.

And what kind of routine was there in the home guard itself?
Well you went out on schemes. What the army called manoeuvres. Sunday morning, creeping along garden hedgerows and what not.

Was this all within Pendleton itself?
Yes.

I’ll tell you an amusing thing. Well I was what you called a call out man. The Captain would let me know that early Sunday morning there was going to be a call out. So he’d come and knock me up and then I had to go all round Pendleton and part of Salford knocking people up so that they had so many people in their area to knock up and tell them to report to Oulton Bank immediately. Now the first time, a lot of them were colliers, you see, and they had been out on the beer Saturday night and I’m knocking them up at 2 o’clock in the morning and I shouted up at the bedroom window ‘report to Oulton Bank’ and he says ‘just a minute’ and throws the contents of a gusunder at me. And I only fell for that once. It was knock and back off.

Out of range?
Yes. It’s true that.

And did you have any rank? or pay?
No a private, no.

It was just voluntary?
How did you actually come to join the army?
When you were 18 you automatically got papers to join. So I went in work and I said to the manager “I’ve got my papers, I’m going on the 5th of November to join the army”. He said, “Oh you’re exempt” and I said “I know I’m exempt but I’m going”. He said, “you could be a manager by the end of the war” I said, “I’m sorry Mr Bagshaw but I’m going” and that was that. I joined the army on 5th of November.

And where did you join?
Formby Barracks, Liverpool.

Where did you have your medical?
That was done on the Crescent wasn’t it.

When you reported to Formby were you still with the Lancashire Fusiliers?
No. It was the Kings Liverpool for six weeks basic training.

And after your basic training where did you go?
I was posted to Oldham Battalion at Kirk Burton five miles out of Huddersfield.

And how long were you there?
Only a short while. I thought I’ll be over the Pennines for Christmas. Christmas Eve I was getting off the boat in Belfast, Northern Ireland.

But why were you posted over there?
While you were at the six weeks primary training you went in front of a personnel selection officer, you see. You would walk in this room and he would be sat at this six foot table and in my case there was a bicycle pump stripped down and he said assemble that. And that was an aptitude test. Now anybody who had a bike, which most of us did in some shape or form or other had a bike, and knew how to strip a pump down and put it back together. To cut a long story short on the basis of that, I was posted to the Royal Core of Signals and I went to 6 Command Signals in Lisbon Northern Ireland. That was my posting.

And what were you doing was it to do with signals was concerned was it shipping?
No it was army communications.

And could it be coming in from anywhere?
Well basically, there, I did training as a wireless operator you see and then I was posted from there with a section as an attached signal section to a 14 Medium Regiment Royal Artillery. I was CO’s operator.

And where were they based then?
Well we went all over Northern Ireland training the Royal Artillery men. Well actually they were 14th Regiment Bedfordshire and Hertfordshire Infantry and they had gone into Woolwich which was called Woolwich Arsenal and when they came out they were no longer infantry they were Royal Artillery. They had been trained as gunners so this was all training for their benefit.

So how long did that last there?
About 18 months in Northern Ireland.

Did you enjoy your time over there?
Oh yes, very hospitable people. We got a new set a 21 set and they said right we want you to take it up to this map reference and we want to see how far the range that it would work at. It was a new wireless set, you could have it fixed in a wireless buggy or it was made as a man pack as well. You know an accordion, well it was the size of that and you used to strap it on and buckle it on but I never got that far to be honest, I had a static one. We went up there to see how far it would work . We were a couple of mile from Bushmills which was a distillery and still is for Irish Whiskey, but we never got in there and then we came back to Lincolnshire and we were billeted in Grantham Castle.

And how long were you in there?
It wasn’t a very long period. Then I got posted to Y Group. You know that enigma machine, well when they cracked it, it was farmed out to all the Y Groups and that was listening in to all the German operators.

Did you ever go to Bletchley?
No. They were stationed all over the country, different places. I’ll tell you what, we had a marvellous intelligence system. Because you could know that at such and such a time, we always worked on their time you know switch over to such and such a frequency and it would always be the right position and you knew what we going to happen. A marvellous intelligence service. I suppose it was SOE in France and what not.

After that I volunteered, three of us tried to volunteer for 21st Army Group but they said no it will cost too much to train you so that was that. There was a notice came up for anyone wishing to volunteer for overseas service should the occasion arise, so I put my name down and within 24 hours I was out of that unit and in a holding battalion again but that was Holme Firth and then I went abroad from Holme Firth

Who were you with then?
Still with Royal Signals but you would be posted to a unit from that. Then I got sent on embarkation leave and coming back I caught the 5:15 from Exchange and I got into Huddersfield too late to catch the last bus so I went to the RTO.

What’s the RTO?
Regimental Transport Office — they sort out any problems. So he said to me, ‘give me your pass’ and so he stamped it on the back and says ‘right that proves you were here before midnight’ because you had to be in before 23:59 you see. He said ‘Go down to those buildings, go out, turn right, turn right again and they will give you a bed and a blanket, be on the first bus up, ready for first parade’ — “yes O.K.” I did that, walked in to the guard room. I’ve been waiting for you”. I’m in the clink. He said “you have had a telegram”, “Oh no” I said “Oh yes you have”. I should have been there a day before I was due, so I was two days adrift. A court marshal offence, so I’m in the slammer and this CSM comes down and clip board and the forms and says “you are a silly boy you were warned” I said “I didn’t get a telegram, it’s as simple as that. Anyway they had sent it to the wrong Williams. So they let me out of the clink and that night at 9 o’clock we were on the lorries down to the train and up to Greenwich and on the boat. But I still didn’t know where I was going. Finished up in Bombay.

Can you remember the name of the boat at all?
Yes P & O Chitral

And was it a liner?
No it was one of them freight and mail boats you know.

It had been converted for carrying troops?
Yes.

So how long did the journey take to Bombay?
A month.

Did you have any problems at sea at all?
Yes. We were on the starboard side on the convoy. But there were two ships sunk on the portside one night anyway we got there without any further mishap. I spent a night in Calliann transit camp at Bombay and got on the lorries again and went to the station and finished up at Mhow in central India which was a big Royal Core of Signals training base in India. Spent a week there. And then back on the lorries. Then I think it was a gunboat down the river to Camilla. There was about 10 of us. Went over to the airstrip where this plane was supposed to be waiting for us. The plane was there but the pilot wasn’t so we slept on the tarmac under the wings that night until he finally arrived the following morning. We got on the plane and over the Himalayas, the hump as it was known and landed at an airstrip called Mingladon. Got off, the sergeant said “who are you”, “Williams 328”, down the track and that was it, 33 India Unit. And then from there it was down to Rangoon. Rangoon, war had finished. We got sent to Singapore. We were supposed to pick nine men up at Pongy Street Jetty. When I got to Singapore I was instructed with a letter to give it to the first Signals Officer that I saw, which I did and I finished up at Z L of C, line of communication. I found out later the war had ended and we were supposed to go to Jarva and Dr Sukarno was trying to kick the Dutch out of the Dutch East Indies which is now Indonesia, but before we were sent there we had a peace keeping mission between the Dutch and Sukarno’s mob but it got shot up by Sukarno’s mob so I never got there. So I just finished my time out and came home in 1946.

What were the living conditions like in India?
Oh India was alright because it was peace time barracks.

Was the food o.k.?
Yes

Did you get time off?
I was only there a week, when I got there. You could go out at night down to the village but I didn’t get any leave or anything.

So you ended your time then?
Yes, I came home in 1946 on B release because I had worked in a mill previously to my service they wanted them back so I was on B release. I was put on reserve W/TTA reserve indefinitely.

Do you recall what W/TTA meant?
Wireless telegraphy.

So you were on the reserve indefinitely?
Yes. I’m still on it according to that piece of paper.

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