'New kid on the block'

Will we see Cameron emerge from a plane saying "crisis what crisis". He may have to face one soon. There again is history to repeat itself but this time no Norman Lamont to accompany him!

So paraphrasing....

We used to have a leader who was a muppet.

Now we have a leader who is a muppet, but at least he realises and is going to keep his gob shut. Like a school boy at a meeting of his elders and betters.

Fundamentally the much vaunted 'change' is no real change.

Brown will be judged by History to have dragged this country to the edge of a financial cliff

Cameron will be judge, along with Osborne as Chancellor, as the two men who saved us from going over that cliff

If we could only find Gordon Brown, we could ask him why he got so much wrong, if he was so clever?

Maybe the answer is obvious......

Who cares what Gordon Brown is thinking?

Too mush thinking gave us a global banking crisis, a duff regulator, a credit boom and a bloated public sector.

Socialists are too clever by half.. and look where it landed us.

It's a great time to be a tory...

At least DC realises himslef that he alone and his ideas along cannot save the world. Unlike the previous super hero at N10 Glaticus "the destroyer of worlds, just maybe DC is the silver surfer then.

Kevinb @ 3.

Yawn,yawn, yawn...

.........................
Nick
Don't really know what point this is making....apart from Cameron likes the sound of his own voice more than Brown.

Lets see how he does. "Events dear boy..." and all that.

3. kelvinb
Brown will be judged by History to have dragged this country to the edge of a financial cliff
Cameron will be judge, along with Osborne as Chancellor, as the two men who saved us from going over that cliff
------------------
yes, i read that paragraph aswell. conservative 2010 manual. chapter 4, page 415. under the heading. how to talk complete rubbish and guise right wing policies under a smokescreen of labour failure.

yawn of all yawns.....

So we should be pleased we've got a lightwieght PR expert with "limited aims" running things now?

Look forward to seeing you congratulate the new kid on the block for his amazing success at "arriving rested" and "getting to know world leaders". Dare we dream?

Seems that this tells us as much about how the lobby works as it does about the leaders taking part in these talking shops, doesnt it, Nick?

"On the plane to a summit Brown would insist that world leaders had to do better and would soon be surrounded by a pile of briefing papers covered in his barely legible scrawl in black felt tip."

"Officials would spend the entire journey working on Gordon's latest plan to save the world. He would then come to the back of the plane to tell journalists of the pressing need to reform of the UN, IMF, G8 and G20 and any other global institutions he could think of."

The hacks would listen, engage a little before realising that this would be of almost no interest to their news desks or that they'd written this before and reform had proved a tad elusive."

Ho hum.

And as for: "Thus, the self proclaimed "new kid on the block" has come with the limited aim of arriving at a summit rested; getting to know his fellow leaders and urging them to take practical steps rather indulging in windy rhetoric."

I dont see anything wrong with that, but it doesnt half read negatively.

Particularly when you add: "As I write this I can hear Gordon Brown telling the story of a London summit in the 30s which failed to avert the Great Depression. Thousands of miles away I can sense his brooding frustration with the failure of world leaders to do enough to avert another crisis. History will be the judge of who was right."

I've often wondered what you hear in your head when you write. Chances are, I'd venture, it may be a verse or two of The Red Flag. Brown is yesterdays man. Why would you be thinking of a historian who never learned history's lessons?

History - which is always written by the victors - will indeed record who appeared to be right. Not the lobby pack indulging in reminiscence.

I see. So sounds like Cameron (our Prime Minister) is just having a laugh. Terrific.

Thanks, NR, for the insight. Interesting.

Not sure about the last sentence. How much are you paid? Perhaps it was written in a rush during some turbulence.

CameraOn's chance to roar. At least that smug Negative Nick (Clegg) is not by his side.

Interesting to see how the pro-US CameraOn has in the last few weeks been battling with Obama.

For once I agree with CameraOn; enough of the pointless meetings, start doing some actual work!

I think he is doing thinigs the right way as he is the new kid on the block and should take stock of what happens at these meetings before sounding like he is going to save the world(no my mistake gordon has done that).He has to ensure that our polices tie in with the rest of Europe and not pay to to much attention to Obama who is hell bent on hiking up everyones debt knowing he has the luxuary of hold in the $ which is the world default currency which the us will just print more if they need

"Thus, the self-proclaimed "new kid on the block" has come with the limited aim of arriving at a summit rested, getting to know his fellow leaders and urging them to take practical steps rather indulging in windy rhetoric."

Well Nick, that may be a nice starting point.

"Practical steps" rather than windy rhetoric...
And I bet he won't claim that he "saved the world"...

Forgive me 'ole bean' but are you inferring GB was 'a blunder buss' of the highest order........didnt he pay you to write what he said or thought he said.....................

However we might feel about them, Britain's representation at these summits is important to our economic relations with the rest of the world.

Cameron's predecessor was noted for frequently arriving late, leaving early and failing to engage with his peers. As you indicate Nick, he was dismissive over anything other than his pet agendas and many came to interpret his gruff behaviour as rudeness.

Brown may be brooding still, but over past slights, grudges and dashed hopes; he casts no shadow now where there is illumination.

7. At 12:57pm on 25 Jun 2010, lefty10 wrote:
3. kelvinb
Brown will be judged by History to have dragged this country to the edge of a financial cliff
Cameron will be judge, along with Osborne as Chancellor, as the two men who saved us from going over that cliff
------------------
yes, i read that paragraph aswell. conservative 2010 manual. chapter 4, page 415. under the heading. how to talk complete rubbish and guise right wing policies under a smokescreen of labour failure.

yawn of all yawns.....


Could you share with us where the Labour cuts would have been?

Cameron can at least say with some conviction that 'We are all in this together'.
We should listen to what others have to say, particularly those who have addressed similar situations - Canada. The lesson is 'If your public finances are in a hole, stop digging'.

I thought Gordon was usually more interested in the photo-opportunity.

Surely you remember him chasing Obama into the kitchens wailing 'Mr President' after the White House had rejected five separate requests for a bilateral meeting during the four days he was in Pittsburgh for the G20 summit.

6&7

No need to feel guilty for causing this deficit, by voting for the irresponsible government that got us into this mess....

Try thinking about that for a while, before attacking the two parties getting us out of this Labour hole

YouGov’s post-budget poll for the Sun shows a broadly positive reception. Overall 57% think Osborne made the right decisions for the country as a whole, with 23% thinking he made the wrong decisions. 42% think he made the right decisions for them, 33% the wrong ones. Overall government approval is up since before the budget, from 41% at the start of the week to 46% now. Headline voting intention stands at CON 42%, LAB 34%, LDEM 17%.
In YouGov’s pre-budget poll the two obvious concerns for the government were that the public were evenly split on whether the cuts would be fair or unfair (34% thought it would be fair, 35% unfair), and whether they would push the country back into recession or not (40% thought it might). Osborne seems to have made progress with swinging public opinion behind him on both counts. The proportion of people thinking that the deficit will be reduced in a fair way has risen 11 points to 45%, the proportion of people who think cutting the deficit now might put the country back into recession is down to 33%. Overall 50% thought that the budget was fair, compared to 27% who thought it was unfair.
Asking about the specific measures, all but one measure met with the support of a plurality of respondents, with the most popular measures being the rise in personal allowance on income tax and the tax on the banks. Reducing tax credits for families earning over £40k, limiting housing benefit, increasing capital gains tax, restoring the earnings link and helping councils freeze council tax all met with overwhelming support. Support for increasing the pension age to 66, reducing corporation tax and (slightly surprisingly) scrapping the planned increase in tax on cider all met with lukewarm support. The only measure that was opposed by a majority of respondents was the VAT increase – this was supported by 34%, and opposed by 54%.

Nick, please,
Enough about Brown he's gone now...get over it already- give us substance about what Cameron hopes to achieve at the G8 summit

'History will be the judge of who was right.'

History has already judged Gordon Brown and found him guilty of the greatest act of economic mismanagement ever inflicted on this country.

Nothing that happens from now on will change that.

"Thus, the self-proclaimed "new kid on the block" has come with the limited aim of arriving at a summit rested, getting to know his fellow leaders and urging them to take practical steps rather indulging in windy rhetoric". What? Like....
""Let me tell you what I can see.
"I see a country where more children grow up with security and love.
"I see a country with entrepreneurs everywhere, bringing their ideas to life.
"I see a country where you're not afraid to walk home alone.
"I see a country where the poorest children go to the best schools, not the worst."...and I see a former TV PR man of obvious limitations.

#7 Lefty10 said: 'how to talk complete rubbish and guise right wing policies under a smokescreen of labour failure.'

Straight from the Labour MO,smokescreens and failure.

After 13 years of smokescreens and failure it is refreshing that we at last have a leader that responds to questions directly and doesn't use the Labour handbook of spin, lies and manipulation - Chapter 1 to 56 all paragraphs.

It demonstrates the totally unbelievable gall of Brown to assume that he and he alone can change the world through his pomposity and self aggrandisement.

Good to have a realist at the helm at last.

I think this is a fair (indeed, very fair) comment on Gordon's strengths and weaknesses in the realm of international leadership politics. As you say, time and events will tell which approach has been more effective.

KevinB #3 said:

'Cameron will be judge, along with Osborne as Chancellor, as the two men who saved us from going over that cliff'

Truly amazing! Your ability to see into the future is 'mighty impressive'. Any chance you could let me know Saturdays lottery numbers? Cheers Omnipotent (not to be confused with impotent or indeed Imhotep!) one.

Nick said: "On the plane to a summit Brown would insist that world leaders had to do better and would soon be surrounded by a pile of briefing papers covered in his barely legible scrawl in black felt tip."

"Officials would spend the entire journey working on Gordon's latest plan to save the world. He would then come to the back of the plane to tell journalists of the pressing need to reform of the UN, IMF, G8 and G20 and any other global institutions he could think of."

So basically in his head he had saved the world, and then went back to brag about his plan, which clearly didn't or couldn't work. Especially as he had made it all up before even discussing it with anyone else.

The monumental arrogance of the man is still staggering.

Fubar (9), this piece of Nick's is clearly pro Cameron and anti Brown. I don't mind that (get the impression Gordon could be overly intense, thus probably fair comment) but what really surprises me is you don't see it; that you don't detect that the piece is pro Cameron and anti Brown.

#10 Sagamix

Yeah, yeah, yeah - Cameron's just going for a laugh. Yawn,yawn, yawn...
Yawn of all yawns....

That's has got to be the worse and possibly the most childish anti-Cameron put downs I have ever read!

I at least expected 'a shameless display of self PR!'..... or 'maybe he's trying to encourage the world leaders to go on a fox hunt!'.... or 'at least he has got the airfare for the trip now that he's bled the homeless dry...'

Anything but - 'He's going for a laugh'

Have you lost your mojo?

Interesting Newslog.

Yes, it all comes back to Gordon Brown doesn't it.

The man is off the radar and has been since the election but the fact is there is now no one left to fill
the vacuum left by a genuine heavyweight politician. Cameron and Clegg look the same with their Oxbridge airs and they also look like children lost in a grown up world. They have no ideas, no direction, no answers and inevitably we are on our way towards a double dip recession. This is still no time for a novice.

"Socialists are too clever by half" @ 4

Robin, I do hope you're not one of those simple "rugged" types who sneer at brainboxes. Had that all my life - come on here to escape it.

They can both be right. It could be that we need to do more to avert a crises and that we have to cut because there is no money left.

Of course they could both be right but one is to blame. All very well speaking of Keynes after increasing borrowing throughout the upturn.

Gordon Brown p!**ed away any leeway we may have had.

'4. At 12:36pm on 25 Jun 2010, rockRobin7 wrote:
Who cares what Gordon Brown is thinking?

Too mush thinking gave us a global banking crisis, a duff regulator, a credit boom and a bloated public sector.

Socialists are too clever by half.. and look where it landed us.

It's a great time to be a tory...'

Despite your usual blinkered statement, people do care what Gordon Brown is thinking and not just in this country.

A great time to be Tory? Don't you mean, it's a great time to be heartless?

Call an election.

7. At 12:57pm on 25 Jun 2010, lefty10 wrote:
3. kelvinb
Brown will be judged by History to have dragged this country to the edge of a financial cliff
Cameron will be judge, along with Osborne as Chancellor, as the two men who saved us from going over that cliff
------------------
yes, i read that paragraph aswell. conservative 2010 manual. chapter 4, page 415. under the heading. how to talk complete rubbish and guise right wing policies under a smokescreen of labour failure.

yawn of all yawns.....


-------------------

Is that from the Labour manual (only 1 page), "how to screw up the country and deny any responsibility". You people make me sick

I guess if the limit of your ambition is to win power, then everything that follows must be a bit of an anti-climax. No wonder he'd rather just have a nap. Brown sounds much more like the kind of PM we need in these difficult times: innovative, impatient, irascible. Could prove to have been a big mistake, swapping horses mid-stream when we're already half way up the creek.

As usual I have no idea whether Nick is making a point in his blog and, if he is, what that point is. Given that I have no idea why I continue to read his blog and then worry that I have missed his point if he was making one. I might not bother anymore although it might be a cheaper option for all concerned if Nick didn't bother anymore?

I love the idea of the communiques to be released at the end of the weekend having already been written! Just shows how pointless the meetings and the participants actually are :)

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

#17 labour have been cutting for the last 13 years the private sector

I suspect that most of the country couldn't care less about this meeting in Canada. More interesting is the World Cup game against Germany nd of course Wimbledom. G8 and G20 just attempt to show how important these world "leaders" are. In reality, who cares?

#10 if he start to sound like Brown then we will be straight into the abyss, thankfully he is NOT and trying to stop us falling into free fall into the mess that labour has created

7. At 12:57pm on 25 Jun 2010, lefty10 wrote:
3. kelvinb
Brown will be judged by History to have dragged this country to the edge of a financial cliff
Cameron will be judge, along with Osborne as Chancellor, as the two men who saved us from going over that cliff
------------------
yes, i read that paragraph aswell. conservative 2010 manual. chapter 4, page 415. under the heading. how to talk complete rubbish and guise right wing policies under a smokescreen of labour failure.

yawn of all yawns.....


Lefty10,

A "smokesceen of labour failure"...?

Where's the money, Lofty?

All that money borrowed from our children to "invest in our future"?

Apart from a lot of PFI/PPP stuff that our children will pay for?

I watched a lot of black and white films on TV. Where naval vessels laid down smokescreens, but something solid came out the other side.

Blair/Brown/Mandelson laid down a smokescreen and what exactly came out of the smoke?

Not like that lovely moment in the Railway Children when the beautiful Jenny Aggiter found "Daddy... My Daddy..."

"Gordon... My Gordon..." just could never cut it. When the smoke cleared there was just a massed of burnt economic acreage.

Kevinb @ 20.

Letting your eyes pass over a copy of The Sun is not reading a newspaper.

Yawn,yawn, yawn...

Sorry i know this isn't really this thread, but I have a general question to all (Labour) (Saga i would particulary like your response)..

Do people believe that the current round of spending reductions is based on some quasi-religous belief by the Tories that the state shouldn't support those in need, instead of being a response to us simply spending more money than we earn?

Bty what is the issue with someone deciding the lay of the land and asking for acutal results rather than blabbing to the press about re-forming the world and achiving nothing? At least it should be viewed as honest evening if it isn't the result we all would like to see.

sircomespect,

"Have you lost your mojo?"

Perhaps not one of my better efforts (okay, no "perhaps" about it) but am still clutching at mojo. Will return shortly with an absolute killer, just see if I don't.

4. At 12:36pm on 25 Jun 2010, rockRobin7 wrote:

"Socialists are too clever by half.."

Erm! There's nothing like blowing ones own instrument.

You wre blowing there wern't you Robin?

An interesting insight into leadership style, but misses the point, along with all the various insults sent their way in these comments. The problems are systemic and structural, laid down over the geologic time of multiple governments on a genuinely global scale. I'm yet to read a satisfactory holistic account of them, let alone hear any leader either willing or indeed able to do anything about them. Such tectonic forces are irresistibly gradual, yet capable of overpowering destruction. I'm no Marxist, but I'm struggling for more apt models right now. Leadership can only achieve so much without a compelling solution. Our leaders - all of them - appear to be dabbling with epochal changes way beyond their understanding or control.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

I am somewhat disappointed in the Beebs coverage of this subject, it is parochial, marred by petty political party inuendo. Channel 4 news has a much more wholesome coverage, they even mention other countries and their approach and answer to the financial problems, not just the punch and judy show of labour and tory in this country, very disapointed in Nick's article! By the way David Cameron is not the only new kid on the block.

As to history, I am amazed that many contributions here have seen into the future and can tell us how it all ends, surely history is being able to look back and see what has happened good or bad! It will be quite some time before any can tell if the present government were correct, notice the tense past! or the past government may have been correct. To tell us now who is right is just banal plain political bias in either direction.

Do I take it that Little Cleggy's been put in his box 'til Cameron gets back.

Gootle of geer !

sagamix 31

'Had that all my life - come on here to escape it.'

If you come on here to escape being sneered at Saga I shudder to think how bad it must be for you when you're not blogging.

People have forgotten the other PIIGS. The other shoes have yet to drop. The US is concerned about mid-term elections and somehow pretending that the robber banks are now everyones friend while expending large amounts protecting Arab oil. This is a temporary lull before the next storm and the world leaders are sitting around waiting for something to happen. As they decided to assist the wealthy in the crisis and not the people the economies are stalled. The current approaches are about power and wealth and not economics or recovery. It may all have to fall apart before things get better because the political systems are both weak and corrupt. Capitalism always undermines democracy because it prefers control to limit its competitors and policies that protect them when they abuse the people.

23. At 1:54pm on 25 Jun 2010, schwitters wrote:
"Thus, the self-proclaimed "new kid on the block" has come with the limited aim of arriving at a summit rested, getting to know his fellow leaders and urging them to take practical steps rather indulging in windy rhetoric". What? Like....
""Let me tell you what I can see.
"I see a country where more children grow up with security and love.
"I see a country with entrepreneurs everywhere, bringing their ideas to life.
"I see a country where you're not afraid to walk home alone.
"I see a country where the poorest children go to the best schools, not the worst."...and I see a former TV PR man of obvious limitations.

Schwitters,

But which of the items on YOUR list do you NOT agree with as aspirations?

Martin Luther King had many personal faults, but he had "A Dream".

If you are saying that it just doesn't matter what politicians say - but rather about what they DELIVER - we can agree. But I think we are a little bit early in the cycle (just a few weeks) to make judgements about what may happen.

I'm all in favour of the quiet, economically sound and effective delivery rather than the noisy flim-flam stuff.

So, in my world, people like Alistair Campbell and Lord Mandelson of all over the place would never have made an impact. The sort of second-tier folk you find in public companies doing stuff behind the scenes but never really willing to drag out in front of a potential customer... Because they would drag in spin at a level you couldn't substantiate in the "real world".

So I hope this Coalition will focus on DOING things, rather than the New Labour PR style "projection of what may happen"...

I liked quite a lot of New Labour PR but still can't find a heck of a lot of truly paid for (not borrowed) and DELIVERED outcomes/benefits.

With so much of a year-on-year deficit to reduce, I always felt that whichever party assumed power, life would be tough.

But I rather hoped that Brown and his (really, really clever) mates like Balls and Cooper would have worked out that a credit-based boom none of them bothered about wasn't really and still can't be actually described as "growth".

Goodness knows, saga would still like Harriet H as a Leader. All the rest went to Oxbridge. Where is there somebody with the charisma and working background to represent a "Labour" party?

Give it a few years. The UK may survive. Hope so. Then focus government actions on what needs to be done. De-tune all that Westminster village stuff that contributes so little to life at large.

Let people get on with their lives.

43. At 3:07pm on 25 Jun 2010, craigmarlpool wrote:
Kevinb @ 20.

Letting your eyes pass over a copy of The Sun is not reading a newspaper.

Yawn,yawn, yawn...

The poll was commissioned by the Sun......

I simply post the outcome of the Poll, to educate those who think the majority are against the budget and against the cuts

You would appear to need educating

By the way, I am no big fan of the Sun, and do not read it

So, all in all, you didn't do very well, really

Brown was voluble in his criticisms and suggestions, but seldom did anything positive (except spend other people's money as all good socialists do).

In just 8 weeks, Cameron has a track record of positively addressing the core problem of national debt that afflicts ALL western nations to a geater or lesser extent.

You may not like the medicine, but at least it has been prescribed.

"Practical steps" rather than windy rhetoric...
And I bet he won't claim that he "saved the world"...


Whey Hey Yogi! i bet he can't give Obama an answer why he favoured austerity rather than practical steps.

Since the liberals have abandoned their John maynard Keynes approach to become Yogi's little Boo Boo! it just could be a sleepy meeting.

Kevinb @ 54.

Oh dear, thats me told good and proper...

I don't need educating,but thanks for your concern.

When you say you simply post you weren't kidding...

from previous blogg 425. mrnaughty2.
mmm. to be honest...when i read your post i just shrugged my shoulders. you see....ive been posting on here for quite a while now. i have learnt a few things. i have enjoyed lots of polite debate...and also i have had no problem with calling a moron a moron. at the moment i am just flabergasted about this govt. and it makes me really angry. hence todays posts. now, i know you are probably not interested but i just want to let you know, i am the most unagressive person you coud meet. except of course when it comes to politics and the continual mugging of the working class ie. most of us. especially some of the extreme right wing on here who appease, condone and praise this imoral govt.
now i do like sagas style. but sometimes (like at the moment) i just feel its time for a bit of right wing slapping. free country sill...isnt it.

#33, call an election? Are you serious? What a great way to spend limited public money that would be, coming less than two months since the last election.

We could call an election EVERY couple of months and become a proper tinpot regime if you like. Or did you only want to keep calling elections until your preferred party gets power back, then return to letting them wreck everything for another five years?

#17, kevinb wondering where the Labour cuts would have been....

Silly man, Labour never make cuts. If you need more money you just raise taxes. It's easy. Until of course taxpayers decide they've had enough and either leave the country or give up working for a time and the revenue stream stops. Or the low paid decide they've had enough because it's easier to claim benefits than to work all day for the same money.

Then if you need more money you borrow it. Until you find nobody wants to lend it because you can't repay it.

By then you've sat in the job long enough to get a nice cushy pension so you can spent your retirement gloating.

#42, "I watched a lot of black and white films on TV. Where naval vessels laid down smokescreens, but something solid came out the other side.

Blair/Brown/Mandelson laid down a smokescreen and what exactly came out of the smoke?"

Well something solid certainly came out of the smoke. It's not something I'd want to handle though.

Clue: When my dog grunts a lot something solid usually comes out too.

54 Kev

" The poll was commissioned by the Sun......"

Blimey little Blighty the sun alias the daily litigate...LoL

"You would appear to need educating"

Tell it to Rita Kev.


"By the way, I am no big fan of the Sun, and do not read it"

Jeez! talk it up all day long then "Razzle" rip it up! you could be Vince
Naaa! Mince.

34. I_Despise_Labour
Is that from the Labour manual (only 1 page), "how to screw up the country and deny any responsibility". You people make me sick
--------------------
well im glad about that. and you havent seen anything yet. wait till the union kraken awakes. its stirring now.
of course as i have said many many times....labour have made many mistakes. but there is no admission from the right wing about their imoral policies.
do you believe that gordon brown caused the recession in all the other western countries? do you belive that the tories didnt try to block the minimum wage?. do you belive that cameron had no plans to raise vat?. are you aware of the independant ifs report that sais the latest budget was regressive and would hit the poorest hardest?. i could go on and on but perhaps as long as everything is ok in the ivory tower...you couldnt care less. and that nicely explains tory policy.

20: YouGov’s post-budget poll for the Sun shows a broadly positive reception. Overall 57% think Osborne made the right decisions for the country as a whole, with 23% thinking he made the wrong decisions.

Great doing an opinion poll immediately after countless repetition by the ConDems of words such as 'fair', 'balanced' etc. Unfortunately, it is only a day or so after the event that the facts emerge and we discover a budget that is the opposite of fair and of unbalanced, as demonstrated by the hardly left wing Institute for Fiscal Studies. We can now see that unlike Labour's last budget, which impacted most, financially, on the best off, this one is a complete mirror image, impacted most upon the least well off - Osborne forgot to mention that on Tuesday! Would be curious to see the results of another such poll a week after the event.

58. At 4:24pm on 25 Jun 2010, lefty10 wrote:
from previous blogg 425. mrnaughty2.
mmm. to be honest...when i read your post i just shrugged my shoulders. you see....ive been posting on here for quite a while now. i have learnt a few things. i have enjoyed lots of polite debate...and also i have had no problem with calling a moron a moron. at the moment i am just flabergasted about this govt. and it makes me really angry. hence todays posts. now, i know you are probably not interested but i just want to let you know, i am the most unagressive person you coud meet. except of course when it comes to politics and the continual mugging of the working class ie. most of us. especially some of the extreme right wing on here who appease, condone and praise this imoral govt.
now i do like sagas style. but sometimes (like at the moment) i just feel its time for a bit of right wing slapping. free country sill...isnt it.

Like I said, you voted for Labour, who caused this mess, you re therefore responsible for the action that is taking place now, so slap yourself, ...frequently!

58 lefty

No problem with Right Wing slapping or when necessary Left Wing slapping. Done both myself.

If you feel like giving someone a slap, certainly won't find me refering you to the Mods. Never done Never will - so go out ther and fight your corner - Life would be boring without a few of your ding dongs especially with GM.

9. At 4:24pm on 25 Jun 2010, ThoughtCrime wrote:
#33, call an election? Are you serious? What a great way to spend limited public money that would be, coming less than two months since the last election.

We could call an election EVERY couple of months and become a proper tinpot regime if you like. Or did you only want to keep calling elections until your preferred party gets power back, then return to letting them wreck everything for another five years?

Latest yougov poll, after the budget sees..

Headline voting intention stands at CON 42%, LAB 34%, LDEM 17%.

57. At 4:08pm on 25 Jun 2010, craigmarlpool wrote:
Kevinb @ 54.

Oh dear, thats me told good and proper...

I don't need educating,but thanks for your concern.

When you say you simply post you weren't kidding...


YOu accused me of reading the Sun, pretty low blow in my book.....

my god if he,s of to europe he,s going to come back telling us its much worse than he first thought , sorry more cuts .the only good thing is he cant change the weather

The CEO of a NHS trust as been given her commpensation as the Judge state she was sacked for politcial reasons by Alan Johnson.

Is it time that Alan Johnson and many other labour Cabinet minister and PM's where brought to justice for wasting public funds for political reasons and also the real reasons behind the problems exposed such a ministerial incompetance to start and upto and including Treason for Mr Brown trashing the UK economy

52

Bond yields on Greek and Portuguese Bonds are starting to look horrible, and the Spanish Banks are relying on the ECB as the markets have shut the door at the moment....

It sure is going to be a bad summer for those three

62. At 4:33pm on 25 Jun 2010, kered wrote:
54 Kev

" The poll was commissioned by the Sun......"

Blimey little Blighty the sun alias the daily litigate...LoL

"You would appear to need educating"

Tell it to Rita Kev.


"By the way, I am no big fan of the Sun, and do not read it"

Jeez! talk it up all day long then "Razzle" rip it up! you could be Vince
Naaa! Mince.


I thought you had to post in English on here?

#67, looks like if we did call an election now we'd only have to call another one in two months. And then every two months until it returned the right answer.

No Illusions,

"(Saga i would particularly like your response)... Do people believe that the current round of spending reductions is based on some quasi-religous belief by the Tories that the state shouldn't support those in need, instead of being a response to us simply spending more money than we earn?"

Interesting question. In my opinion it’s neither of those things. Both the main parties accept the need for some serious spending cuts and tax rises over the next few years in order to repair the public finances ... to “live within our means”, if you like. As to anti state ideology, I don’t think the tories can get away with too much of that stuff when they’re in coalition with the lib dems; don’t actually think Cameron is that sort of tory anyhow (although plenty in the party are, and I’m not so sure about Osborne) – but Cameron, I don’t think so. That’s why the likes of Robin didn’t like him pre election, and are only pretending to like him now. The two big factors I see in play right now are as follows - they are both very understandable and deeply cynical.

(1) Osborne’s desire to make a name for himself: to do this, it’s imperative to NOT follow Labour’s (IMO, very sensible) timetable for deficit reduction – he has to be different. And being different (given he is a tory) means cutting harder and quicker.

(2) Political calculation: it’s important for the government that if the economy is going to take a dive, that it does so in the near term; this way they can blame it on Labour (make out it would have happened anyway) and be well placed to benefit from an upturn down the line ... nicely timed for the next election.

#63 lefty10

...you havent seen anything yet. wait till the union kraken awakes. its stirring now....

union kraken - is that John Prescott?

It increasingly appears that the problem with Gordon Brown was not what he proposed doing, but his total inability to interact with other people to achieve what he wanted.

64. At 4:40pm on 25 Jun 2010, Cocteau8 wrote:
20: YouGov’s post-budget poll for the Sun shows a broadly positive reception. Overall 57% think Osborne made the right decisions for the country as a whole, with 23% thinking he made the wrong decisions.

Great doing an opinion poll immediately after countless repetition by the ConDems of words such as 'fair', 'balanced' etc. Unfortunately, it is only a day or so after the event that the facts emerge and we discover a budget that is the opposite of fair and of unbalanced, as demonstrated by the hardly left wing Institute for Fiscal Studies. We can now see that unlike Labour's last budget, which impacted most, financially, on the best off, this one is a complete mirror image, impacted most upon the least well off - Osborne forgot to mention that on Tuesday! Would be curious to see the results of another such poll a week after the event.






The poll was conducted between Tuesday evening and Wednesday afternoon, so not quite as rapid as some of the instant reaction polls we’ve seen after budgets in the past. All the same, at past budgets we have sometimes seen bad news from the budget emerge in the days that follow, which could alter the public’s reaction. The initial response, however, seems to be that people see the budget as pointing to hard times ahead, but are broadly supportive of it.

Yougov

Hopefully Cameron will be able to spot the difference between a cupboard and a conference room.

jobs @ 51

Quite. It's a tough calling, mine. I do get upset sometimes - a bit teary - but when that happens I take a look at who's doing the sneering and the leering, and it cheers me up no end. Recommend the technique to you (if you don't already use it).

Hey - rather nailed the truth of the matter (re the budget) at 74, have I not? Mmm, I know. Still that's politics these days, isn't it? Really gone downhill since May 6th.

72 Kev

" I thought you had to post in English on here?"

Ah, not only a fool but a racist into the bargain. Shame on you Kevoff!

63. At 4:36pm on 25 Jun 2010, lefty10 wrote:
34. I_Despise_Labour
Is that from the Labour manual (only 1 page), "how to screw up the country and deny any responsibility". You people make me sick
--------------------
well im glad about that. and you havent seen anything yet. wait till the union kraken awakes. its stirring now.
of course as i have said many many times....labour have made many mistakes. but there is no admission from the right wing about their imoral policies.
do you believe that gordon brown caused the recession in all the other western countries? do you belive that the tories didnt try to block the minimum wage?. do you belive that cameron had no plans to raise vat?. are you aware of the independant ifs report that sais the latest budget was regressive and would hit the poorest hardest?. i could go on and on but perhaps as long as everything is ok in the ivory tower...you couldnt care less. and that nicely explains tory policy.

You are just wrong, and sadly even if you live to be 199 years old, you will not see it

The IFS study is flawed, because it fails to take account of the fact that much that the least well off need, is provided FREE

ALso, you think there are 13 Million living in poverty in the UK, which is ideological bilge

That is 21% of the population, which is just your left wing goggles taking over

Unlike you I GENUINELY care about the least well off, which is why we need to weed out the fraudulent claimants, and help the vulnerable

Can you explain how you can help the vulnerable with a £156bn deficit, and £903bn National Debt, to which we add £100,000,000 EVERY SIX HOURS thanks to Gordon Brown, your hero

You voted Labour, so you and the others that did are totally to blame for the mess we are in

Thanks a million...which we add to the national debt every 3 minutes

Cocteau8

'unlike Labour's last budget, which impacted most, financially, on the best off'

Labour made damn sure they taxed the better off until saturation point precisely in order to leave the new Government (who they assumed would just be Tories) no room to extract substantially more.

Shame there's so many dim wits out there that fall for that sort of stuff.

74

You are utterly wrong about Osborne, he is equally Liberal Conservative, if not more so than Cameron

L10 @ 58

"i just feel it's time for a bit of right wing slapping."

Always and forever, Lefty - there may have been a time when it wasn't (time for a right wing slapping), but I can't remember one.

Be interesting how things play out with the lib dems over the next year or so. You voted for them, didn't you? ... (sorry, unkind of me!).

"pdavies65 wrote:
I guess if the limit of your ambition is to win power, then everything that follows must be a bit of an anti-climax. No wonder he'd rather just have a nap. Brown sounds much more like the kind of PM we need in these difficult times: innovative, impatient, irascible. Could prove to have been a big mistake, swapping horses mid-stream when we're already half way up the creek."

Oddly I got the opposite impression, the description of Cameron is of someone who has prepared for the meeting and discussed the approach he will take before taking a rest (and being well rested and mentally alert is an important part of being prepared IMO).

While Brown sounds like someone who goes into a meeting ready to try and force his will on others, has been up all night and enters into a meeting frustrated, uptight and unwilling to listen to anyone but himself.

I have dealt professionally with both types of people and those who are relaxed, refreshed and willing to listen to all viewpoints are much easier to work with. Many of the failed projects I have seen have been led by a Brown type - someone who seems unwilling to listen to other's views even if their views are valid and could improve things.

IF the Unions strike, then they will turn the public very much against them

So, let's hope that they are stupid enough to do so

sagamix 74

'Osborne’s desire to make a name for himself: to do this, it’s imperative to NOT follow Labour’s (IMO, very sensible) timetable for deficit reduction – he has to be different'

and perhaps you'd like to explain why the Canadians adopted pretty much the same approach the coalition are adopting now (if not even more harsh) when faced with a similar crisis. Was this for the same cynical reasons.

Perhaps you could also explain why France, Germany, Italy, Spain are all adopting equally tough meaures even though they all have lower deficits than our own. Are they all equally cynical.

Or perhaps their actions could simply be explained by a desire to do what's right for their country.

I appreciate for someone who supports Labour that's a pretty hard concept to get your head around.

Andy 431 previous

Problems is Andy needs a bit of control. Wouldn't want you complaining about lack of regulation after the event would we.

Don't want you think that someone was getting a bit more of what you thought their entitlement would be.

Most on here like the idea of the NHS system but some don't like the idea of "outsiders" not contributing towards it. So just like the NHS any Government plan would have to be compulsory.

Wouldn't want to be thought as a "scrounger" would we Andy... but hey just like the NHS look at the benefits when you need it most.

You're probably right though I scheme that is fair to all just wouldn't happen not within the next five years - but makes me wonder why this is.

66. mrnaughty2
ive never understood why someone would refer a post to the mods. i mean if you disagree with a post or are offended by it, either put your point across or ignore it. the only person who i knew who regularly referred posts and admitted it, was the delightful s croft. sagas favourite lady :-)

Nick Robinson has met and engaged with Cameron and Brown and so has a huge advantage over us bloggers as to their styles and thinking/thunking.

I think that for England, Brown and his tenure will will come to be seen as a total aberration, especially as we struggle to pay down the £400Bn debt that he and Ed Balls have bequeathed us during the 2002/7 splurge.

I have met a few old Etonians and the outstanding attribute these fellows have is a extraordinary politeness, which never fails to impress and so becomes a useful weapon in the Old Etonian politicians armoury because they are also taught the ways of the so-called 'real-world' i.e. that it is sometimes necessary to deploy the 'black arts' as a means of furthering ones ends.

I believe that Westminster School also teaches same - no wonder Cameron and Clegg can finish each others sentences!

These posh boys are lifes grinners and winners - that is just how it is.