Who says the election's boring?

Nick,
We should all now be prepared for promises that no government can afford to make.
We have months ahead of us of politicians grabbing every moment they can to tell us that they are the party that will make everyone's life 'rosey'. However we know that the country is in a financial mess.
I would vote for the first party that admitted that there will be savage cuts in the public sector; that the country is still in recession; and that 2010 is likely to be as bad for the British people as 2009.
Isn't it time for some honesty from the leading politicians?

Do you get your government lobby feed from this man Nick?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/6934672/White-House-accuses-Downing-Street-of-making-a-mistake-over-intelligence-claim.html

Seems like he could be an embarrassment that Brown doesn't quite need during his period of saving the world

I am glad to see the election campaign start early. This gives the media the chance to go into detail about what direction each party wants to take us in in the next five years. To all those complaining about it starting so soon.... we have been moaning for months about Labour not telling us how they are going to reduce the deficit or what public spending is going to be cut, we have a few minor policies from the tories showing us their direction of travel, and well nothing so far from the lib dems. We need these next four months to draw out policies from the parties so we the people can make a truly educated decision on who to vote for. We cannot have an election based on sound bites... look at the mess that has got us into over the last 12 years. This will not be a Twitter election! Thank goodness. Bring on the debate.

The points you make about the inevitability of tax increases and/or spending cuts, whichever party wins the election, are well understood by people. This is not an extended election campaign but rather an extended campaign to insult our intelligence. Caledonian Comment

If truth be known Nick, the Country's finances cannot afford anything at the moment. It won't stop the Party spokesmen from trying to sell us a glowing picture of a rosy future for all though.
What we want to hear from the politicians is the plain, hard, probably unpalatable truth.
It won't happen though. Honesty has long been anathema to the political classes. Elections are about getting elected, not about truth.
Spin, chicanery, even outright lying is the name of the game.
It is boring and will get worse. We, the public, are not fools. We are aware that what we hear over the coming months is not to be believed. We are going to hear nothing that will reflect the reality of life after the election.

It's laughable.

Quite frankly the Tories have got it right. No real manifesto, because we are not sure what we can or can't do!

Labour should produce a clear audited statement of the state of our economy, or else how can we choose what is going to be best?

I suspect there is a lot more hidden in the woodpile and that's why Darling is stoking the fires.

Watch out teachers, nurses, doctors, policemen and other public service employees there is a p45 coming to you soon.

Welcome to the recession.

"The Tories cannot afford to introduce a transferrable tax allowance for married couples"

Nick: It is not the Conservatives who cannot afford to introduce a transferrable tax allowance", it is the country. And the blame for that rests fairly and squarely with Gordon Brown and his mad spending spree that has left us with a structural deficit approaching £200bn. That is the difference between what he has been spending and what he has been taking in taxes. On top of that there is also the cost of the bail-out for the banking system. Brown is not without blame for that fiasco either. He was quite happy to turn a blind eye to the worst excesses of the banking industry provided it generated the taxes to pay for the worst excesses of his socialism.

And yet he still will not acknowledge the damage he has done. He has gone beyond "denial" and appears to be in zombie mode chanting the same old mantra over and over again. Unfortunately, it seems there is no mechanism to rid us of this man who has done so much damage to the country so we have another 5 months of his idiocy.

What Cameron effectively said yesterday was "I would like to recognise marriage in the tax system but at the minute we can't afford to," I suspect that many thousands of people across Britain are in that same position of having to put off a holiday or a new car because their finances are too stretched and they may sympathize with him. This wasn't the monumental gaffe you portrayed it to be on the Six O'Cock News last night Nick, your report might as well have been written by Ed Balls!

Whoever wins the election is going to have a fire fighting job to try and get the national finances under control. That may take many years and it is only when they can do that that they will be able to go to the "blue skies policies."

Since Labour went to court to prove that a manifesto promise is an aim and not a legally binding contract with the electorate, what's the point in listening to any of it?

They have a legal document that specifically says they are allowed to misslead and con us all, so why would anyone belive a word any of them says now?

I think posters 7 and 8 have said it all. You guys are spot on. I read these posts regularly and every now and then someone sums the issue up in just a few short unbiased sentences. BBC reporters take note!!

It will take all my willpower in the next 5 months to stop me throwing a brick at the TV especially when Brown appears and some apologist reporter gives him a way too easy ride. This man has cost me money, in any other walk of life he could be charged with fraud.

The bias that is shown towards labour politicians is not just confined to Nick's reporting. Peter Allen on 5Live gave the tory shadow treasury minister so much more of a grilling than the Treasury spokesman last night. It was painfully obvious what was going on!

Come on BBC, show some fairness. I am sick of hearing radio shows and watching sunday morning politics shows where Tory and LD members get talked over only to let Labour have their uninterrupted say.

It is reassuring to see the great and good dragged kicking and screaming into the harsh reality where the electorate lives. Such is the power of democracy: we would do well to have more of it more often.

The cruel truth is known to the general public: in the UK the government is broke. This election campaign is all about that truth dawning on the political class. The electorate are way out in front so our leaders have no choice but to follow if they want to participate in our future.

In due course we will get some policies which address the real issues: a split between retail banking and the funny stuff, an audit of the septic debts so we can see the size of the debt-hole and do something about it, more investment in manufacturing, more growing of our own food, a police force that catches criminals rather than the innocent and the list goes on and on and on.

There's no election date set, but are we going to have to endure on a daily basis the kind of politican-speak tripe of claim and counter-claim for the next 5 months?
Just seen a bit of the daily politics on beeb 2 (was looking for bargain hunt actually). Here are two blokes one red one blue neither answering any question at all just blaming the other for whatever the question was about in the first place, not that anyone could remember after minutes of waffle.
They just revert to type, can't answer a question, no idea the public at large are rapidly developing nothing but contempt for them after expenses, illegal wars, never listening to the people of the country.
Saw muppet christmas carol over christmas, we'd be better off with them in charge.

Why is the BBC not covering this story about Downing St lying regarding the passing of intelligence on the Detroit bomber to the yanks?


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/6934672/White-House-accuses-Downing-Street-of-making-a-mistake-over-intelligence-claim.html

This is about Downing St *lying*. Is that not a story, Nick? Seems like a story to rest of the media - why doesn't the BBC reckon it is?

#7, #8, #10

And yet, they somehow *can* still afford to reduce inheritance tax for themselves and their Eton chums ...

And until people started asking them some detailed questions yesterday, they were prepared to let the electorate continue to believe that the transferrable allowances for married couples was one of their policies.

I say it's boring.

Why are journalists not asking politicians some of the tough questions that we'd like them to ask. Like why is none of them being honest with us about exactly how big a financial hole this country is in?

Until then, we are just being fed meaningless spin and drivel, which is, frankly, boring.

NR ''They still have to decide what to do instead.'' - Would DCs performance yesterday count as a dither ?

It would be a little more balanced if Nick was able to force himself to reflect negative criticism of the Tories...........occasionaly.

Perhaps I missed the earlier dither report on DCs Grand ole Duke of York march up the hill on the EU referendum et al.

I'm less worried about Nick's behaviour than the general approach of the BBC. I was interested this morning to hear a segment on Today by Tom Feilden. As a "warm-up" for Hilary Benn's set-piece at 8:10, he did a cosy little piece on UK agriculture policy. It could have been scripted by the minister. All is needed was Whispering Tom's voice-over.

The BBC is complicit in the misuse by the government of the free party political broadcasting that all of this represents. Ministers are using their ministries as free PR teams.

Frankly, I don't want to hear any more from any of them - no interviews, no debates, no PPBs. I want a copy of each manifesto, in Acrobat format, then three weeks of silence to read them.

First, I want the election announced now. We know it is happening, so why are we waiting. Of course, I know the answer: Labour needs a month or two of this free campaigning before they have to pay for anything. They don't have a war chest, so we are paying for it.

Nick, I have a challenge for you:

Between now and election day, how about keeping a running count of the number of pages you write critical of the tories, and the number you write critical of labour. If they don't balance then you should hang your head in shame as you are not doing the job you are paid for.

Obviously you'll have to pass the idea by mandy for approval first.

re #15

So anyone who is remotely interested in voting conservative is a toff, they all went to public school and own most of everything?

Grow up.

I don't have any allegiance, I live in Derbyshire - you know coal mines and all that, and I never went to public school yet I have voted conservative in the past based on them being the best candidate, no other reason. I'm also against the use of Gordon Clown, tony bliar etc by the way

This is just the beginning of a big, pointless game of chinese whispers. What's said today will not resemble what will be in their manifestos and what is in their manifestos will not be worth the paper it's printed on... even if you use those manifestos as toilet roll.

15

"And yet, they somehow *can* still afford to reduce inheritance tax for themselves and their Eton chums ..."

Who is this 'they'? I can only assume you mean Labour, as they have introduced a transferable nil rate band that could save their Eton chums up to £130,000 in IHT.

15 "And until people started asking them some detailed questions yesterday, they were prepared to let the electorate continue to believe that the transferrable allowances for married couples was one of their policies."

And Brown continues to claim that spending will increase by 0.8% AND that the budget deficeit will be halved in 4 years.

I feel posters 6,7,8 & 9 have summarised everything nicely.

The Conservatives have less knowledge of the details compared to their Cabinet counterparts and are clearly in a position where they can't know with 100% certainty what they can or can't do should they inherit the wonderous deficit New Labour have given us. It should be down to Labour to give us the full details and truth of the country's circumstances and not hide behind their campaign just for the sake of being elected again. We've had far too many years of Gordon Brown and New labour now, do we really want more of the same? It took them 12 years to destroy this country, what else can they provide in another 4 or 5?

As for the BBC reporting, whether it's intentional or not, there does always appear to be some level of bias in supposedly objective independent journalism.

The biggest factor is the manifesto, which has already been stated to be nothing more than a statement of "What we'd like you to think that we are going to achieve" statements rather than being a binding legal agreement with the electorate.

I think it's nice and refreshing to see the campaign starting early. What isn't nice and refreshing is the same constant lines we hear all the time from these people. How about some truth, honesty and integrity from our leaders.

We, the electorate, realise more than the politicians think we do. We want the truth, we want policies that reflect the truth and not pointless electioneering that's all about media, spin and appearance to the public.

Bring on the policies and debates so that we, the public, can make informed decisions about the state of our country and who, we feel, is in the best place to take our country forward in to the future.

The only certainty we know is that we haven't had David Cameron as PM but we have had Gordon Brown along with New Labour for more than a decade. I have no idea what sort of leader David Cameron or Nick Clegg would be but my own opinion is that I want to see the back of Gordon Brown and all the members of his cabinet. New Labour need to slay the infection that is rotting at the core of their party before they can heal and improve to become a party that I would be prepared to vote for.

uhm heard on the today programme that some org was going to sell more Guilts/bonds HMG ones than it would buy and the question was put is thsi the point when QE unravels and the answer was it could be.

This would then lead to some very serious issues very very quickly about governemt debt financing before the election thus creating a state of emergency therefore no time for an election

a post on the polictial implications of QE unwinding be the GE would be good , how about it Nick.

#15 No they are not.

The Tories are proposing to raise the IHT threshold to £1 million mweaning it will only be the rich who pay it!

Who is going to be brave and say that until the country's finances are in good shape we are going to put the brakes on immigration apart from exceptional cases and have a complete overhaul of the benefits system and only those most deserving will receive payments, ie those who have been in long term employment and have lost their job through no fault of their own or have had to retire early due to ill health and those who genuinely deserve disability benefit and anyone who wants to have endless children will have to go to work to support them and not expect the decent hardworking tax payers to.
Whoever declares this will have my vote and I suspect most of the country's votes as well (apart from those whose comfortable non working tax free benefit receiving lives will be well and truly disrupted)

For me, nothing that the Labour Government says now will change my vote. Everything it has done in the last 10 years has been strikes against the Labour name and no amount of frivolous hot air will change that.

Labour governing this country after the next election will be like being burgled by a police officer and then the police officer attempting to arrest themself; unfortunately, "you got us into this mess, so you can get us out," does not apply any more.

discussion about policies for long term economy recovery? - its the election stupid!

I was enjoying reading this mornings blog at around 07:00 onwards as I chugged through the snow on a train, then some wazzack brought up fox hunting and the next zillion blogs were filled with that cul-de-sac matter instead of the real issues. What struck me, as a country lad, was how little the bloggers knew about the subject and the life and times of Reynard. But hey ho, never let facts get in the way of a New Labourite!

Suggestion to Moderator - put in a filter that excludes any mention of fox hunting and stop the waste of air space that was evident earlier today.

Reading about the great Gordon (he's a big green engine isn't he?) reminded me of a couple of years ago when working in Euston, and the great debate was on about the value of foreign workers to this Country and how the great G was extolling their benefits. I used to pass the British Library each day and there were always two female Big Issue sellers there, by the way they were dressed both were Romanian Gypsies, and it struck me there and then that the great G was right again, as a country we couldn't even provide our own Big Issues sellers, never mind plumbers, health workers,etc.......what a visionary!

BREAKING NEWS! - MELTDOWN IN ICELAND REVEALS SPANNER

‘Iceland plans referundum vote on bank payout’
https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8441312.stm

This isn't how democracy is supposed to work!
The UK Govt should send somebody over there to tell them that they're gonna spoil it for the rest of us if they're not careful.
They just can't start dishhing out referdums like that!!!

Gordon; send Tony over there...he'll sort 'em out...good an poppa!

Isn't it about time politicians put the country first and the PM called a General Election?

Is the country really best served by a 5 month pre-election campaign or should we be offered the chance now to decide who is going to run the country for the next 4 or 5 years. The longer the election is put off the greater the charge that GoBro is putting himself and his party ahead of the country will stick in the minds of the voters.

He did after all did write 3 books about Courage yet seems remarkably intent on indicating that it doesn't form part of his own belief.

And there was me thinking that nu labour had already done away with mixed sex wards with the pledges in 1997 and 2001, still we all know what pledges are ............. worthless.

25#

Particularly when the European Operation for this company which is about to dump UK and US gilts is run by...... none other than the brother of Ed Balls.

How deliciously ironic.

Well I'll make a confident prediction; newlabour's non campaign will fall flat on its face within the next four weeks as repeated attempts to deny that there will be savage spending cuts by whomsoever wins the next election becomes completely untenable as an argument.

here is a reason why:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/6933232/Pimco-move-to-sell-gilts-raises-spectre-of-a-UK-sovereign-debt-crisis.html

The debt strikes are already begimnning and worse, the biggest private buyer of government debt in the world is selling UK government debt.

The price of servicing newlabour's debt gamble has already increased 20% in the last three months as the gilt market has sold off; the desire to finance a profligate bunch of wastrels incapable of rationalising public sector services is disappearing.

Newlabour have made their own bed, no matter who is doing the sweet talking on the airwaves, and the international bond investors are choosing to leave them to lie in it, at ever increasing cost.

Ed Balls and his master are intellectual dwarves for supposing that 'the debt doesn't matter' Someone has to buy it. Once the debt markets turn against you your political career is finished. Newlabour's turn has been, been a disaster and is now on its way out by its own actions.

There is no longer a choice for a UK government between raising taxes (a la sagamix) and cutting spending. They could raise income tax to 100% and it would sort out the debt problem.

Events, dear boy, events.

Doubtless sagamix and his newlabour apologists will come up with soem other scheme to steal our money to avoid the most pressing economic issue of our times. Expect to hear a proposal for a one off wealth tax; let's just call on everyone to register their total wealth and tax it at 50%.. why not? Could raise a few quid. Never have I witnessed a more flailing and failing government so desperate to save its own bacon by stealing from anyone who has earned a few bob. Totally pathetic. And it's written all over Alistair Darling's face - he knows he's stealing and there is nothing he can do about it.

Call an election.

REMEMBER!...it's not just the national debt...it's the bank's debt that they have been allowed to place on the nation's books...all
because of Gordon's total incompetance when setting up the tripartite financial regulation system.

How do we know that Gordon isn't an 'ALCHY-ADA' (whoever she is) plant???

Almost all of the comments on the forthcoming election are based on the premise that it will be necessary to cut the public sector deficit drastically soon after the election. This premise is untrue. The deficit will only need to be cut when the economy recovers to the extent that there is a danger of overheating, and cutting it too early would inhibit recovery. There is plenty of slack in almost all UK industries, so overheating is unlikely during the next 5 years, providing exchange rates are kept at a level which allows the slack to be used.

Why people should still be prepared to believe right wing monetarist economists, who got it so wrong before 2008, I do not know. Their understanding of how the real macro economy works was so poor, that they persuaded politicians, in the US and the UK particularly, that it was safe and desirable to rely on competition to regulate bank lending.

Dear oh dear.

What would I give for straight unbiased reporting from the BBC.

No mention of Balls and Brown promising INCREASES in spending when Darling is talking of cuts.

No mention of the fact that Brown cannot say the word cuts, even though it is his profligacy that has lead us to our mountain of debt and the fact that we are the last of the G20 to still be in recession.

No mention of the fact that Darling and Brown used Civil Servants to produce the dossier about Conservative plans for party political purpopses. Aren't there rules about this?

Please could the BBC consider hiring someone better suited to reporting political issues fairly and responsibly in the run up to the most crucial election for a generation.

The phoney election thus far is not boring, it is infuriating and boring for it's stupidity.

We have a whole day of fake debate about nothing where shock horror:

The Conservatives still have not decided what their actual policy is on anything (lest they offend anyone) but they have lots of fluffy warming aspirations - i.e. no better position than the whole of the last 2 years excepting perhaps that they are prepared to say they aren't sure if they can afford them which is hardly shocking given we know the country is a bit broke just now. More 'policies' seem to be turning into aspirations than ever it seems.

Labour have continued making a mess of the mathematics showing they still cannot add up which has been no surprise for a few years and still are having a problem with the word cuts despite the fact we know they are coming.

I look forward to more pointless manufactured spats about things which fundamentally both parties know we cannot afford but voters would like to have especially if they are free, or more, exactly paid for by someone else.

It all reeks phoney gamesmanship trying to weedle out positions from the opponents with false aspirations, trying to lay soundbite traps for the others rather than addressing any issues.
They are all still focussing on the obtaining of power and not what they would do with it nor what benefit their being given it would be to the country as a whole.

This is probably the most important election in a generation and it a pretty poor showing.

Best they go away and reflect then come back in a few weeks when they are prepared to discuss the real situation of the country and real choices we have to face.

David Cameron tells us he wants honesty in politics. So why in his speech on "the NHS" does he not make it clear that he is talking only about the English NHS? He mentions Britain but not England. Scotland's NHS is the responsibility of Alex Salmond's Scottish Government but if you didn't know that you would be none the wiser listening to DC.
I won't vote Tory until they recognise England!
A "fringe" party this time me thinks.

Just listening to Mr Benn on News24 and his plan to grow more food for UK consumption.

Two questions:

a) By the time the Country is covered in wind farms, eco towns and expanded airports, will there be any land left land to grow it on?

b) Has he now given up plans to grow crops for bio fuels?

Or is it, as usual, guff and waffle.

Ok well I've got the idea that the government borrowed money to fund public spending and later raises taxes to pay back the debt only the problem they are all faced with is that it is very difficult to win an election on the face of tax hikes.

So are we the kind of people to pay back our debts or are we the kind of people to default on them and if we owe so many millions of pounds how are we going to pay it all back when peanuts are for monkeys?

Breakfast Maker @ 10: Thanks for the compliment about my post @ 8. However, I'm not a guy. I'm a gal! I do have a sense of humour though, unlike some of the people who make so much noise on here.

Andy of Ilkeston @ 20: Well said. the Labour spin machine is so boring not to mention old-fashioned about this. Anyone would think they didn't have the likes of Woodward, Sainsbury and Byrne [who worked for Rothschilds] in government not to mention Mandelson and his rich Russian friends. Then there is Blair. I think we should have a one-off ill-gotten gains tax aimed specifically at him.

Susan @ 27. Spot on. For starters, can anyone explain the immigration status of Katie Ivanova, Ronnie Wood's ex mistress? She isn't an EU citizen and her skills base hardly fits her into the "high qualified" category.

And Nick: Can we please have some discussion on the way in which the head of the senior civil service union lambasted Labour for using the Treasury to illicit information, which they then used for political purposes, on the options the Conservatives are evaluating?

And whilst you are about it how about something on the Institute of Fiscal Studies calculations that there were cuts of 19.5% implicit in Darling's Pre Budget Report? Included in that should be Brown's denial that those cuts figure in Labour's plans. Either Darling or Brown have it wrong. Which is it?

Is the election boring? Most definitely yes.

This Parliament has run its course. It is no more. It has fallen off its perch. It is an ex -Government.

Please Beeb and all other media for that matter, stop giving any politican air-time until the election is actually called.

Why waste a further five months during which nothing positive can be done to deal with the real and urgent problems this Country now faces.

Nothing useful can come of delaying the ballot. Just long, tedious hours of saying absolutely nothing worth hearing.

Re-run the entire series of 'Yes Minister' and 'Yes Prime Minister' to fill the political slots. At least we would get a smile out of it.

Once the election is underway for real, politicians should be restricted to telling us only what their respective Party intends to do, with a ban on them saying anything about the other parties.

Call an Election Now! (With apaologies to RockRobin)

#41 Zydeco -

Definitely guff and waffle.

The thing that makes you laugh is that he has plans to grow more food, but fails to suggest doing something about the upcoming 10M population increase.

If proportionate increases were made in the production of food to counter the 20% population increase since Labour took power, then it will take about 10 years to meet that demand.

Therefore, it is doubtful they could ever keep ahead of the rising population figures, nor find the land necessary, nor create enough food to feed even 50% of this country.

So almost certainly guff, waffle, denial, short sightedness, stable door, horse bolting and erm potential untruths by using slightly adjusted figure work.

Bit like the treasury.

Bored bored bored. Phoney war. No-one is really listening to any of these idiots anymore.

They haven't the guts to speak to the nation honestly and openly. Nor can any of them add up, nor speak in normal English it appears.

We ALREADY know any government will have to cut departmental budgets by 10%+ and probably put up taxes overall by 2% or so; we ALREADY know DC & co couldn't run a welk stall without a 6 month consultation period, a phalanx of image advisors, and endless focus groups; GB & co have lost the trust of the nation; NC wouldn't recognize an radical thought if it hit in the face.

So, we are left with Hobson's choice: a bankrupt party and government, a flimsy, visionless, spineless and confused opposition, and a 3rd party with nothing exciting to say except "we're not like them". No wonder no-one is listening to them except political obsessives.

The nation isn't apathetic about politics but we're fed up with their sophistry and inability to stand up for their ideas. But alas they don't seem to have either the gumption or guts. Both parties are behaving like they REALLY believe we actually care about what they say. They know it's all B-S, and we know it's all B-S. For example Liam Byrne n his Tory opposite partook in THE most appalling so-called "debate" on Newsnight last night which left them both looking like children squabbling in the playschool sandpit. JP just sat agog at the inanity of it all.

So, Nick, what have we REALLY learned of any REAL import? Nothing.

If you think yesterday's "you're more untruthful than we are" briefings and subsequent argy-bargy was "not bad" you should really get out more, Nick. Arguing about what colour the square wheel should be.

Get out of the Westminster village, Nick, and visit some real parts of the country outside WC1 (once the snow melts!) and see how this country needs real political leadership and vision to set us on some kind of new economic and cultural path. We're country with no sense of who or what we are, where we are going, or why. So, we just get drunk, or stoned instead. Blair flattered to deceive. We need a politics of vision AND substance with more than the mere managerialism, (in)competance and media manipulation*.

Where is the new political thinking, either right, left, or independently radical? We are facing a massive challenge over the next few years and the paucity of heavyweight political thinking is breathtaking. If only the Tories had a great leader as a credible centre-right alternative, or indeed the Labour party cohort of radical intellectuals fizzing with ideas free of the dead hand of the near brain-dead Supreme Leader, or a Lib-Dem party of visionary young Turks led by someone with a bit more charisma than a dead halibut. But alas we have an image consultant, a tribal misanthrope, and an ex-EU bureaucrat. Help.

Wake me up on 6th May so I can place my X on my ballot paper.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.............

"Campaigning's barely begun and we've learnt a great deal already......"
and one of the things we are learning is just how desperately Nick Clegg yearns to be taken seriously - "I am not a king-maker"....interesting, isn't it, that he is the only one who has been talking of a possibility of the Lib-Dems being invited to make up the numbers if the voting gets too close. Grow up Nicholas - or just run along and let the big boys play....
Zydeco(44):
"Once the election is underway for real, politicians should be restricted to telling us only what their respective Party intends to do, with a ban on them saying anything about the other parties."
Spot on.

If we can't carry on like this how can we carry on when everyone is so accustomed to the viciousness of city politics? Because if it's not one lot starting up it's the other and all of it involves injury to someone else.

Hum. Maybe somebody is going to get hurt.

I agree with others.The unpalatle truth needs to be told.
The Uk's finances are in such a mess,radical changes are necessary.
I personally would like the Tories to go the country with proposals like:
- freezing public sector pay across the board and changing the pension
terms and conditions to reflect parity between the public sector and
private sectors.
- All budgets across Government slashed by 10-15% AND include the Social
Security budget-currently sitting at £billions.
- Scrap all quangos and only re-introduce them if supported at Minister
level
- All contractors currently working within the Civil Service or
Ministeries to be re-employed on a staff basis.
- Remove all the radicals preachers etc.and their families from this
country and when the EU compains about their human rights -tell them
to get stuffed.
Now if the Tories are not voted in on a manifesto like this then they will know everybody is happy as Larry with Gordon Brown and they can then return to the back benches,spend part-time in parliament and find something else to do other than oppose Gordon from the front bench.

Who says the election's boring?

99.999999% percent of people who live outside the the Westmisnter bubble/village!

Although I get a bit downhearted at times about the political apathy of my fellow Englishfolk, sometimes through the gloom comes a shaft of light.

In this case, I refer to Home Rule For England @ 40.

Which indicates that at last some English people are waking up to the fact that political Britain is practically dead-on-its-feet.

We just need the native Scots to deliver the coup-de-grace in their independence referendum next November.

44 Zydeco..

no need to apologise to me Zydeco. I've spent two years being bludgeoned by newlabour attack dogs and feel positively enlived by the experience.

Now the fun begins:

https://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23791309-mandelson-labour-will-lose-election-if-it-pins-hopes-on-core-vote.do

And the real fall out between the warring tribes of newlabour makes its public appearance. You cant; go inot an election with half the party facing the problem and half ignoring it. There will be a crushing defeat.

This battle is set to getinteresting.

Call an election.

Judges - don't you just love them?

Well, no I don't actually, noting that this notorious vested interest group fixed it for themsleves that they (alongside MP's of course) would not be bothered by any pesky pension restrictions that the rest of us have to follow.

But, as a poster here pointed out, a judge did tell us, in the Wheeler EU Referendum court case, that political party manifesto promises were merely 'aspirations' and no sort of guarantee whatsoever.


Furthermore, another judge, in a postal ballot riging case, castigated the Government for allowing fraud that would shame a banana republic, so they have tightened up the rules such that (the media will hate this) the General Election result will follow maybe some days after the actual ballot, whilst postal votes are carefully checked.

You will be judged.

trikidiki @ 46

Bored with our political leaders?

We have Gordon Browns lower jaw which just loves to go walk-about - fascinating!

Then we have Nick Clegg-over, who by defination must have some charisma with the females.

Finally we have 'Dave' who swears blind that he never, never, never said that he was 'heir-to-Blair' - no Sir!

These senior politicians are all great entertainment - but maybe we should look a bit closer at the people who really run the country, those shadowy First Division Civil Servants - those are the true forces of conservatism who will block anything they do not like the look of.

Well, the Conservative Tax plans seem to have holes all over the place. Pledges are being dropped, and plans re-written.

Labour have ring fenced priority services, and are unwilling to state what they would cut, looking at growth / possible tax rises to fill the gap.

re: 'the country is broke': no it isn't. We still have AAA credit rating, and haven't gone to the IMF. The international banking crisis caused massive amounts of chaos world wide, and you could have had single, double, or quadruple regulation and it would still have happened. No one noticed it coming, least of all the Conservative Party. Yes Gordon Brown made mistakes, (I'll resist digging up gold selling), but these were minor compared to the hurricane which blew over world economics. Giving the man credit, he helped steady the crisis on the world forum, when the Tories seemed to be floundering as to what to do. Nationalise Noprthern Rock? Bail out the banks? They were pretty silent, and waited until it all blew over then hammered on about the huge figures for ad infinitum.

If parties actually get to grips with what is happening, lay out their policies, and look the electorate in the face, I'll be very impressed. But they won't. Cameron et all will continue to blame Brown, and shout they 'don't have full access to the figures' as a fig leaf for not costing cuts; will your small school close? Will they amalgamate services - e.g police into one uber state? (Labour centralisation comes Tory cost cutting?); Brown will state he's protecting the main services, but not say how he's going to cut the deficit. It's quite depressing.

Oh, I really wish the posters here would not keep digging up zombie totem of BBC bias.

Look ... there it goes! Lets privatise it / clip its wings / sell it to Murdoch ... sigh.

Its five days into the election year and already I have election fatigue...........My vote will go to the party who shuts up till the lection is called and runs a timely election campaign. All the parties risk alienating the voters by their constant sniping, half truths, mis-information and media flooding. Switch it off guys till the due date!

"We cannot go on like this" and I thought - catchy. I also thought NOW they tell me. And then I thought "it doesn't (or did NOT) have to be like this".
It was Stephen Hawkings distinctive voice - the Narrator - from a popular song I was remembering in that latter phrase.
And the possible solution from "going on like this" or changing "how it is" - from that particular song's writer(s) was the suggestion we all (humans) had to just "keep TALKING". To seek resolutions.
Unfortunately may I suggest we all have followed that keep talking instruction too assiduously, Nicholas. They are ALL - We ALL are talking but nobody perhaps is listening and no one has kept listening to what others say. Again I stand guilty of that on many occasion but in my opinion - I have seen worse examples recently of the alleged fault. And that was on the Parliament Channel just this afternoon.
Like the Blyton's Noddy's side kick - I am all ears. What did you say?

RR7 @ *52*

Good link that. Thanks.

It does go to show what a torrid time we're in for until May.

The possibility of a Labour leadership challenge, with Gordon chucking his toys out of his pram if it happens, I quite like.
I suspect GB's reaction to such a move would be to call a snap election, so it might be a good idea.

Meanwhile the Country disintegrates. Ho Hum!

And if politicians were candid enough to admit the scale of the cuts in public spending at this stage they would worry they will lose 6mm public sector worker votes. Hence all the fencing and coyness until the next Government is elected...

Here's another reason for an alternative vote...

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/mps-invoke-1689-bill-to-avoid-prosecution-1856887.html

Expenses will still play a part in the elections if the guilty continue to hide behind parliamentary privilege.

For me one of the most interesting features of the early skirmishes was Gordon Brown's repeated reference on Marr that the election shouldn't be a referendum on Labour.

Apparently he wants us to concentrate on their aspirational plans for the future in the changed world, rather than inspirational record in government in the existing one.

And for the man himself, we should judge him on his self appointed role as saviour/leader of the world on all things global and not on petty, parochial matters like his record on UK economic and domestic matters.

Who could possibly object to such a resonable approach?

I'd take any manifesto "promise" with a pinch of salt from either side.

Labour simply lie about everything, and they don't understand the basics of how the economy works (or even basic maths), so I'd never believe them anyway.

The tories can't really promise anything much at the moment because of labour's scorched earth policy on the economy; they've got no idea if we'll have a trillion, or 3 trillion debt by the time they take over.

Realistically, the only way to work out who to vote for is to ignore all their manifesto "promises" completely, and just take a general judgement of "who do I think will bankrupt the economy into an even worse state than it's in now?" and then vote for anyone else apart from them.

Whoever you think won't make the overall economic situation worse is who you should vote for, because with a worsening economy everything else becomes irrelevant as there'd be no money available for the public sector.

Labour can promise as much as they want, but if they don't even have any plans for paying off the structural deficit (which they don't) then we'd be heading for economic annihilation with them in charge, and at that point we all go back to the stone age. Labour's promises are completely irrelevant; they've broken the economy and have no understanding of how to fix it, it can only get worse with them in charge.

Labour's approach is like "vote for me and I'll give you a 50% wage increase via taxes" but a 50% wage increase is no good if you don't have a job. And being on the dole won't give you any money if there's no private sector left to pay for the dole money.

Remember, a 50% increase of nothing is still nothing. Labour don't understand that, and never will.

I'd rather have a 5% increase of a tenner in my pocket than a 90% increase of an empty pocket.

stanblogger @ 37: Your comments are nonsense. We have to cut the public sector deficit because the people who buy the bonds funding that borrowing are getting to the point where they are doubting whether we are credit worthy. In other words, they are worried that we may not be able to pay our debts.

Their anxiety has been fuelled by the extent of the borrowing and by the lack of any coherent plan from the Labour shower on how they plan to cut the deficit. The credit rating agencies, which make the decisions that affect our ability to borrow, are also concerned and if they decide to downgrade the UK's rating we'll be in real trouble. Those borrowings will cost more, interest rates will have to increase and the economy will go into another nose dive.

In other words, the mess that Brown has created is so great that the decision to make cuts is no longer in our own hands. If those cuts are not made the decision will be made for us.

I beg to differ, the election coverage is already trivial and boring. Not your fault personally but the problem lies in:-

1.The way 'you' are covering it. The simplistic driver of 24 hour news appears to be that 'you' feel you have to repeat the latest political comment regardless of its worth. The result is a destruction of content as the party manipulators bring out their instant rebuttal machines to bad mouth and deny whatever the other lot has just said. The result is a noise wall devoid of content. Editors should edit, not echo.

2.In a desperate attempt to appear on the ball and get on screen, TV journos try to squeeze stories out of nothing, resulting in a huge chase down blind alleys after stories which are as empty as they are trivial.

3.A lot of journalists are so lazy they haven't done their homework so their shallow questions are easily rebuffed and they rapidly pass on to the next question on their list. Worse, they allow the politician to change the question and get away with it. Pathetic interviewing. Personally, I'd prefer one answer to one question than no answers to ten questions. Do your jobs, dammit!

4.Politicians use 1,2 & 3 to manipulate the news and 'you' have no defence because ...

5.'You' are so desperate to get them to talk to you that 'you'll' let them get away with anything as long as 'you' get them on air. This is spineless. During an election campaign the journos have the upper hand and the Beeb can simply say, sorry PM, no easy puffing on the Marr show, if you want to get on air Mr Andrew Neil or his number two, Mr Nick Robinson, is ready for you...

If 'you' don't understand how to do your jobs, ask PD James for a few tips.

Trouble is believing, how can we trust or believe a Prudent Chancellor now a Prime Minister that has allowed us to get into this state?

We do have to get out of this mess and Labour haven't said how, and the Conservatives needs to explain their 'grey areas' convincingly.

But we do know one thing the Tories left us with a pension fund and healthy economy when they go booted out only for this lot to fritter it away and sell our Gold at 'Dell Boy' prices.

We can expect to hear mud slinging, insults and one liners but nothing on how to get the hell out of this mess, they all fear having their pants shook at the seams in fear of losing votes so we aren't going to hear the truth....

... but what can you expect when Labour won't release the proper figures - this should be treated as treason, crime against the state because it's our money not theirs!

After the election 'bring on the novices' for there will be less so-called 'honorable gentlemen.

Have others found that if any comment questions the Labour government it is more than likely not published. I questioned if the moderators are government moderators and not BBC, again not published.
Like others I would like Nick to question Labour's on their spending plans/cuts and if they intend to have a budget before the election. This is more important than some of the blogs which quite frankly are trivial in nature. We need to know the financial status of the country and not drivel as spouted by Laim Byrne.

#52 RockRobin - good link. I picked up on the following statement by Brown:

Mr Brown said: “Nothing that the Conservatives say adds up, and that's what the election is going to be about.”

Simply amazing. Labour have brought the country to meltdown, and all they can do is base an election campaign on harping at the Conservatives? And since when has ANYTHING Labour have said/done added up? Perhaps if they could add up, we wouldn't be in such a mess.

Depressing that Brown can only say nothing other than criticize the Tories, and that is what this election is about - his words. The country would be in far better shape if he concentrated on what he was going to do, rather than waht the Conservatives might do.

It's going to be a long five months.....

The possible Bond strike issue is a key to the next couple of years. The Pre Budget report borrowing figures were based on interest rates that the Government will not reveal. In other words if the yield on bonds go up the forecasts for a reducing deficit goes out the window.

The "Ghost of GoBro" will hang over any UK government for the next 20 years. It is looking more like Zimbabwe every day.

#19 Actually I kept a running list of Nick's references during the conference season.

Without exception it was negative to the Tories

66

Andrew Marr asked these to the PM on Sunday on his programme, predictably the answer was non-commital since a positive answer one way or the other could be taken as confirmation of the election timing or give ammunition to opponents. They are easily avoided by professional politicians and contribute nothing, they are asked becuase people expect them but the journos do not expect an answer any more.

A more telling question has been pursued by other BBC political journos about the document circulating the treasury detailling very big cuts in non-ringfenced areas - none of those who would know have flattly denied it's existence. This is where new and valuable info comes from not from endlessly repeating simply avoided questions.

Just for all those who claim that Nick is biased against the Tories - here is a list of his blogs in October and you can see no bias whatsoever.

30 October : Over to you Foreign Secretary : "until Mr Kaminski expresses full and unreserved regret over what he said and did in relation to the Jedwabne massacres I will continue to criticise the Tory alliance with him."
29 October : Changing Britain's Relationship with EU : "The chancellor of Germany and the president of France are infuriated by the behaviour of the man who their diplomats tell them looks set to be Britain's next prime minister."
27 October : El Presidente : "What he wouldn't do was repeat William Hague's alleged warning that a future Conservative government would regard the selection of Tony Blair as president of the European Council as "a hostile act"."
23 October : Nick Griffin on Question Time : Nothing anti-tory
22 October : Cameron The Heathite : - article devoted to how tories failed to confront the Postal Officers Union
21 October : Is all publicity good punlicity? : Nothing Anti Tory
20 October : BNP 'Hang Generals' just humour : quotes at length an anti-torystance by the BNP
20 October : Postitive Action not Positive discrimination : article about all-women shotlists in Tory Party
20 October : SO near and yet so far : neutral article
15 October : david Willshire - Tory MP to stand down
15 October : going going - david Willshire standing down
15 October : Was 2000 a myth? :Attack on General Dannatt (Tory spokesman to be on defence)
14 October : Rising Slowly : increase in unemployment portrayed as 'good news'
13 October : has he a Lgg to stand on : neutral
08 October : Cameron's personal plea : dismissive of speech : "No wonder he looked and sounded nervous - his voice struggling to meet the scale of the occasion."
08 October : Conferences not what they used to be : Tory conferences were always the most stage-managed
07 October : Another Gaffe : Repeating Chris Graylings Gaffe
07 October : General Gimmick - Chris Grayllings Gaffe
07 October : Cameron talks with Dannatt
06 October : A massive electoral gamble : The Tories today took a massive electoral gamble.
06 October : Pensions an urgent clarification :"Frantic breakfast consultations for Team Cameron this morning when they realised that the hasty unveiling of their pension plans could lead to headlines that if you were a 50-year-old woman you might have to work for up to three years longer before getting your state pension. "
05 October : Benefits cuts concensus : "Labour are not condemning Tory proposals to take £25 a week off people on incapacity benefit who are deemed "fit for work".
04 October : Cameron keepsschtum on Lisbon : "So what does the self-proclaimed "straight talking" guy say about one of the biggest foreign policy dilemma he's likely to face if he becomes prime minister?

Nothing. Nowt. Nix. Zippo. Zilch.

03 October : Brown Agrees to debate :"David Cameron is sure to be cautious about this "

So there is EVERY single Blog done by Nick in October

Boring? Hardly. Anything but. We're about to see the most vicious, bloody UK General Election in modern political history. The Incumbent truly despises the Pretender and will stop at nothing to prevent him winning on June 3rd. We're going to see spin and dirty tricks like we've never seen before. We'll get some Class War too, something which has been sadly missing from mainstream politics for decades. The Clowns are going to get a going over and will have to dig deep if they want to come through it with a 36 seat overall majority. I wonder.

This is what the minister had to say:

"Why borrowing more is not the answer.

Some have argued we should continue to borrow and wait for the economy to grow again before tackling the budget deficit. There are three reasons why this is not a viable proposition.

First, we know from the 1980s how large deficits, left unchecked, can lead to a dangerous spiral of mounting debt and ever increasing interest payments. Never again should we return to a position where all of our income taxes go to pay interest on the national debt.

Second, international debt markets have become more crowded and more fragile. If lenders were to lose faith in our ability to restore order to the public finances, the consequences for our economic wellbeing would be profound.

Third, only decisive action will restore confidence. Consumers will only start to spend and business owners will only invest and create jobs if they believe we are tackling our deficit problem now.

In our everyday lives we do not borrow to pay for our household bills. We cut back and seek to live within our means.

The same strictures apply at national level. Borrowing hundreds of millions a week to pay for day to day spending is just not on. Stabilising the deficit is the next key milestone in our plan to deliver economic recovery for this country."

- Mr Brian Lenihan, Minster for Finance, Irish Government.

Somehow I reckon the message needs to be got through on this island too.

For some reason I have in my head the figure of 680 billion a year in public spending. That works out to about 1.3 million a minute of every hour of every day. Is it truly conceivable that this is being spent productively?

72 sagamix

"The Incumbent truly despises the Pretender and will stop at nothing to prevent him winning on June 3rd."

===============================

Who do you think "the incumbent" will be ???

no money? what about Trident? Why do we need that? what about tax avoidance? what about ID cards? what about the fact that the bonus culture in the city is going to produce much higher revenues than we thought? what about the super rich who pay no tax? there is unlimited money for war but not for health and education-Capitalism is a nice idea in theory but dosnt work in practice....:)

A FEW DAYS IN AND THEY'RE ALL MAKING PROMISES THAT WE KNOW IN OUR HEART OF HEARTS ARE SPURIOUS. THE REALITY IS THAT WHOEVER IS ELECTED WE WILL HAVE A TIME OF AUSTERITY AND CUTS. THE ONLY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN lABOUR AND CON WILL BE THE PART OF THE ELECTORATE THAT FACES THE LEAST PAIN. uNDER 'CALL ME DAVE' THE BETTER OFF WILL GET BETTER OFF AS HE REDUCES INHERITANCE TAX. UNDER LABOUR THE WINNERS SHOULD BE THE POORER. THAT'S WHY I'LL VOTE FOR LABOUR EVEN THOUGH I THINK GORDON BROWN IS NOT A GREAT PM. ONCE THE ELECTION IS OVER AND WE HAVE A HUNG PARLIAMENT OR A SMALL CON. MAJORITY (WHICH SEEM THE MORE LIKELY) WE CAN LOOK FORWARD TO A VERY TOUGH TIME. hAPPY NEW YEAR TO YOU ALL!!!!!

72 sagamix

"Boring? Hardly. Anything but. We're about to see the most vicious, bloody UK General Election in modern political history. "

========================

I think your probably right there, though I hope it gets more positive.

I watched the interview with the emollient treasury secretary Liam Byrne, who absolutely oozed insincerity. He kept talking about a tory £34 billion credibilty gap - or two months worth of deficit borrowing for the New Labour government - and seemed to be unaware that his party are actually in government now. He had nothing positive whatsoever to say at all, even about his own departments spending plans for the next 5 months. This is surprising given his detailed organisation for his cappucino and soup rota.

I hope it gets better than this, and hopefully Liam Byrne will be free to enjoy his soup at 1.30pm unhindered by any parliamentary activities fairly soon.

pickled @ 74

The Incumbent as at 3rd June? ... I'd be very surprised indeed (to put it mildly) if it isn't a certain Mr Gordon Brown. Can't see any way for a change of Labour Leader at this point. Barring accidents, of course. A pity because I don't think that Harriet will get another chance at the Top Job. Shame for her, even bigger shame for us.

Nick you may not think its boring, but the comments to date from the "big 2" parties have left me wishing for a "none of the above" option come the election day.

If yesterday set the tone for what the parties have in store and how you guys are going to report it I'll tell you know that in 5 months time you'll be talking to yourselves.

72. At 6:02pm on 05 Jan 2010, sagamix wrote:
Boring? Hardly. Anything but. We're about to see the most vicious, bloody UK General Election in modern political history. The Incumbent truly despises the Pretender and will stop at nothing to prevent him winning on June 3rd......

*******************************

By June 3rd Gordon will be safely cocooned in one of the concrete money trees in Canary Wharf, reaping his ill-deserved reward from the bankers for all the favours he has done them.

I actually don't think he'll last long enough to see a budget let alone an election.
Labour are now fully aware - however much they deny it - that they cannot win an election with Gordon at the helm. To replace him, without then calling an election would be more than the public could take.

AND there is still the matter of a by-election to be resolved. Or does Labour intend to ignore all convention and refuse to call one?

78 sagamix

Do not be downhearted, I am asure that Harriet at some stage in the future will be able to frame one of her equality laws along the lines of that you must be;

a - a woman
b - went to public school
c - can use a mobile while driving
d - ex Dep PM

To be Prime Minister of the UK.

Bearing in mind that election manifestos have no standing in law, do not have to contain one word of truth and anything in them need never be referred to again, I can see the Labour Party sheet reading somewhat like: -

We will call a budget within one week of being re-elected in which we will:

a) Reduce income tax to 5p for all earning less than £30K and no more than 15p for all others.

b) Increase all benefit payments to a minimum of at least two thirds of the average wage. Rising to 100% if unemployed for more than one week.

c) All family units of more than one person will recieve immediate housing to at least 3 bedroom standard in an area of their choice. This will be fully furnished with a 2 year Sky subscription paid in advance.

d) VAT on fuel to be done away with and fuel duty limited only to the cost of collecting it.

e) Persons on benefits will recieve free fuel for the equivalent of 10,000 miles per annum.

f) Foreign holidays for all will be compulsory. Grants will be available for those who need them.

g) Pensions will rise to the equivalent of the national average wage plus 10%.

That should get them a few votes!!

Re The cameron poster, "I will cut the debt not the NHS", is there any small print that says unless you live in Scotland and Wales because the NHS in those countries is devolved and even if I win the Labour Health Minister in the Welsh Assembly Government, will cut it if she wants to?

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

There is the hysteria, politicians and the commentariat, all of whom seem to want to paint it black.

Then there is Bill Emmott, a tiny voice of economic sanity who writing in The Times, tells us (https://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/article6974637.ece%29 that we have had 15 years of pretty good growth, now we have a recession but that there's no need to panic because all thats really required is a plan to pay down the national debt over a reasonable timescale, which Bill suggests is five years, and not the shock therapy route.

However in these febrile political times, Bill's message is likely to be ignored.

At the risk of sounding like our former fellow blogger Zen Buddhist Chuckie, you could simply chillax (I like new words) about it all.

Hi Nick,

Re: Yet another Labour "Stealth TAX"

I might be wrong but I am sure you are far better placed to find out...

When VAT reduced to 15% the duty on tobacco, alcohol and petrol were all increased to mitigate the reduction - was the duty reduced on these items when VAT returned to 17.5% or have we been had ?

Could Labour steal the election, there is talk of plots afoot. Any truth in this Nick?.

https://waugh.standard.co.uk/2010/01/happy-new-plot.html

If true it may boost Labour core vote!

It is laughable that the only topic that Labour can use to kick off their election strategy is a gap in the Tories plans. From a government that has failed to balance a budget for nearly a decade and has a £175bn per year gap in their plans this is hilarious. The tories have only got access to a minimal amount of information on the finances, so of course there could be some tweaking here and there if and when they get into no 10.

John Constable @ 85: Well, Bill Emmott is wrong. Recently released official figures from the Office of National Statistics revealed that growth under Labour during the decade 2000-2009 was 1.7% when adjusted for inflation. That means that period was Britain's weakest period for economic expansion since the 1940s when we were at war.

By contrast, in the period from 1990-1997 under John Major's Conservatives the growth figure was 2.2%. In that period manufacturing grew by 1%. Under the Blair/Brown Labour regime in the period from 2000-2009 it shrank by minus 1.2%.

John Constable @ 85: Well, Bill Emmott is wrong. Recently released official figures from the Office of National Statistics revealed that during the decade from 2000-2009 the UK economy grew on average at a mere 1.7% adjusted for inflation. That figure is the weakest since the 1940s when we were at war.

By contrast, in the period from 1990-1997 when the Conservatives were in power under John Major the average growth figure was 2.2%. During the latter period manufacturing grew by an annual 1%. Under the Blair/Brown Labour government from 2000-2009 in shrank by an annual 1.2%.

So much for Brown's prudent management of the economy.

This is what it is going to be like for the next 5 months, Nick.

Any hint of scrutiny of what seems to be a threadbare Tory manifesto and your blog will drowned out by the howls of rage from Tory voters rushing in to cut it off.

Some of the paranoia from such contributors is alarming. Why should the British people vote for a Party whose supporters seem to have so little grasp of reality?

There are reams of examples above of Tory voters talking the country down in order to satisfy their desperate need to focus on debt and the deficit rather than British voters' real life experience.

And Labour needs to make more of the fact that they ran the economy in the way that was bequeathed to them by the Tories. Even up to 2008 the deregulation czar (does he still hold that title?!) John Redwood was still singing from that discredited neo-liberal-deregulate-everything economics hymn book. If the Tories had been in power through September 2008 there is little doubt the country would be in a FAR WORSE state than it currently is.

At least this government is pulling out all the stops to ensure unemployment DOESN'T reach 3 million!

Make no mistake, Tories like shouting more than they like discussing their backward policies. So long as you do your job like this Nick, you can expect more outraged screeching like that above.

Nick Robinson:

I never remarked that the election's in the United Kingdom going to be
boring when the big event takes place.....

NB: I am not a political operative in the United Kingdom...

-Dennis Junior

"There are reams of examples above of Tory voters talking the country down in order to satisfy their desperate need to focus on debt and the deficit rather than British voters' real life experience."

It's called realism smurf75 - something your paymasters in Downing St just can't abide. The deficit IS the election issue. Your clown Brown cannot even bring himself to talk about it, let alone detail plans t deal with it. Brown's arrogant idiocy is a shameful insult to the entire country; Labour's bizarre coronation of this wretched, dishonest, poisonous man stil remains the greatest mystery of our age... One day I reckon we'll find out how Gordon got to where he is - it is not going to be a pretty story.

Hello fellow posters,
I have a couple of comments here,
The Torys were in power for 17 years before we were all saved by that nice Tony Blair. No reason to believe that Labour will not be re-elected for another 5 years!
If the Torys do not get themselves a majority, it will be their own fault since they have provided no CREDIBLE opposition for 12 years. "Researchers from the University of Nottingham found that the Conservatives opposed only 36 per cent of government Bills in 1997-98. In the last session, they objected to only 4 out of 27 Bills (15%)."
So no real difference in government by either main party.
I will remember Gordon Brown as the man who banned my perfectly useful and efficient light bulbs and who spent so much on wind turbines that are not turning during this cold snap (political madness).

91.

"There are reams of examples above of Tory voters talking the country down in order to satisfy their desperate need to focus on debt and the deficit rather than British voters' real life experience."

---

I dont know whether i class as a tory voter... i didnt vote for them last time around (i probably will this time)...

What i do know is this, our deficit is a MAJOR issue. The trouble is that the figures are so large that they arent easy to comprehend. You talk about 3 million unemployed, thats a pretty big figure.

Coincidently 3 million is the number of pounds our debt increases by every 10 minutes!!!! (assuming that the governments figures are actually correct)

Whats worse is the fact that this government has NO PLAN to pay off even a penny of that debt...

For all of the smug Labour spinners
I would like to see Lieam Byrne do his manic panic laugh and spin this away
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/6933232/Pimco-move-to-sell-gilts-raises-spectre-of-a-UK-sovereign-debt-crisis.html

Labour says that cutting spending will lengthen the recession.
Small beer, this is the real asteroid that is on its way.

If the bond sales fail then its Armageddon.

Someone did see it coming Cameron & Osbourne have been warning on this one and Brown just keeps on spending.

susan harris @ 27

"Who is going to be brave and say that until the country's finances are in good shape we are going to put the brakes on immigration?"

Well you've answered your own question, haven't you? - and a thought provoking idea it is too. But what's "brave" about it, please?

Interesting discussion on Newsnight now - Will Hutton doing his usual vague murmuring of well-used and facile platitudes (why this man is considered a guru is beyond me) and Gillian Tett calmly and persuasively explaining why the UK is going to be torn apart by the debt crisis. Tett being one of the few who flagged up the bad banks problem, of course.

We're doomed.

re 91 smurfs75
"At least this government is pulling out all the stops to ensure unemployment DOESN'T reach 3 million"!

Yes Labour are pulling out all the stops - its called massaging statistics!

The tories may have run up 3m unemployed during their last term in office (some of their tactics that resulted in this were pretty awful I admit) but at least we knew that there were genuinely 3m unemployed.

Labour claim that there are only 2.5m unemployed at the moment, but one look at the 6m people claiming some sort of "out of work" benefits gives a much better indication of reality!

91 Smurf:

What makes you think that the real level of unemployment isn't actually more than 3 million? Given the exceptions to who is included in the count do you honestly believe this statistic? In fact I find it incredible that anyone can believe anything these days.

As any lawyer will know, there's innocent misrepresentation (not knowning something to be untrue), negligent misrepresentation (not caring whether something is true or not) and fraudulent misrepresentation (knowning something to be untrue). With each Government statement I try to work out which one applies, since honesty never really comes into the equation.

#94 makes a point I agree with; in fact I have often find it embarrassing watching Opposition spokespeople on political programmes and have to switch channels - it's too cringing to watch. On the odd occasion they are on the telly they are more often than not (ie with few exceptions) devoid of a knowledge of economic and political history; are generally ignorant of hard facts, their significance and historical comparison; are incapable of working out what is a right and wrong statistic or when Government spokespeople are being untruthful or misleading; come up with meaningless expressions (such as "stealth taxes")(so what if they are stealthy, what's the problem - if they mean they are rendered dishonestly and wastefully or whatever, then say so); cannot debate with any passion or effectiveness and basically are incapable of offering an explanation for anything, even their own policies.

The Government has been allowed to use propaganda techniques exposed in past times which make people beleive ceetain things to be true when they're not. On Sunday, Gordon looked horribly shifty. His answer to Andrew Marr on whether there was going to be a budget was an example of this. He threw out information with abandon - but with little credibility.

Having dished out the criticism, I am bound to say that in recent days the Tories have sharpened up their act a little, and about time.

The rather ironic thing is though, that in spite of the authoritarian nature of this Government, its political posturing and policies that seems to betray the student politics of some of its members and the deceitful nature of many of its pronoucements, it's very easy to believe what they say (ie until the facts emerge at a later date) and even if what they say is wrong what's the alternative?! I guess that's how the late Uncle Joe used to operate, plus others, of course.

By the way, ahead of the 1997 election John Prescott used to complain on the tv - along with the public sector unions - about the politicisation of the civil service. Now we have a highly politicised civil service; probably have doen for the past 10 years. I wonder what the Tory position is on this?