Three extraordinary personal decisions

Sorry - but I find most of these ministers and mp's two faced and hypocritical and as such they ahve shown they are simply untrustworthy.

Purnell, for as much as I loathe him stood up to be counted, at the very least he has some principals - much like the late Robin Cook. Principals in MP's these last few years is sadly lacking and it is this reason politics are so bad.

No backbone in any of them, no morals, no principals and therefore simply do not represent the constituents who vote for them.

One big clear out is needed - starting with a General Election...NOW!

Many Labour backbenchers who were ready to call for a change of leader will now be asking themselves: "If they're not willing to act to end this, why should I?"

Perhaps they remember the difficult and thankless time William Hague had leading a party when the public was disenchanted?

Never kick a man when he is down on the ground .

IF BROWN DOESNT GO DONT BE SURPRISED IF THERE ARE RIOTS.

Comment by James Purnell - "Doh!"

Is anyone actually running the UK at the moment - it just seems they are just infighting and plotting against each other

Election needed so the country can start to be governed again

Thank God it is members of democratic organizations that choose their leaders and not third rate journalist bag carriers for slimey international press barons. Most people understand that there is only one profession held in lower public esteem than politicians, and they can be located throughout London, particularly Wapping.

it is fairly obvious that milliband and johnson are playing the long game...they know GB is toast but do not want to upset the PLP by assisting in his demise...this way they look 'loyal' whilst still in position for the leaders job... Purnell on the other hand took a different course, playing the "party is bigger than both of us" card ..time will tell who has the best strategy....As to Hutton well i think there is more behind this than "family reasons" why announce that he will leave at the next election...if his family is that important then resign now surely, and why announce today?

Nick, I agree with you on this occassion.

I also think that the current environment would be disastrous timing for a general election. I realise there is no such thing as a perfect time - but now I feel would suit nobody.

Everything seems so fragile, the attitude of many in the "public" (all of us) - the economy and the worldwide shivers going on.

I know it is easy to blame them - but I hope the media start acting responsibly. Recent coverage - and I include many in the BBC as well - has been abysmal and almost tittle-tattle.

In one day I heard report of 3 different email accounts - hotmail and googlemail - where people should "sign up" to oust Brown and I honestly think there were questions to be asked about who really set them up. Honey-pots?

The media has seemed to want to be the news and not report the news. And as any spin-doctor will tell you - that is bad news.

Many backbenchers will be seeing a cabinet that has no bottle and will want to be seen by their constituents as understanding the disaster that is this government, and therefore may do the honourable thing and sign the email.

Whatever happens, sooner or later, Labour is gone. I just pray that we can get on with this sooner because the daily grind and lack of direction is destroying this country - just look at the currency markets. We are an international joke!

Can't help thinking that Labour has given up on retaining power and positively looking forward to the freedoms of opposition even if this means few of them are even MP's. Gordon Brown - Leader of The Last Labour Government.

This "reshuffle" is a non-event. Only ministers who have already gone are being replaced. Steady as she goes Captain Smith (sorry, Brown - Smith was on the Titanic - oh wait).

Poweromics* at work again - by GB, and by them. Backbenchers and voters don't matter ... just them, their egos, their pensions, their peerages and their jobs ... what were those "Seven Principles of Public Life" again?

Oh yes ... Selflessness, Integrity, Leadership, Honesty, Openness, Objectivity, Accountability ...

Oh dear, and when are we going to have 'codes' instead of 'principles"' ... after their long holiday (perhaps) ... oh dear ?!?!

A 'joke' maybe - except it's not a laughing matter ... Let's see some of them now - so the public can see which, if any, MP's are capable of applying them ...


David Clift, a Future 500 Leader

* Poweromics = People using position and power for their own personal gain, based on poor moral values, self interest and greed. Take a look at https://poweromics.blogspot.com for more information.

If Brown is breathing a sigh of relief he should consider that those MPs who have been exposed as having had their hands in the taxpayer's pocket have learned what it is to suffer personal vilification from their constituents. However the issue of expenses is now being superseded by the earnest desire of a majority of people for a general election sooner rather than later.

This will gather momentum and as it does those Labour MPs who will act in such a way from now on to deny us this election will also begin to suffer vilification from their constituents.

What most of them don't yet seem to realise is that politics have fundamentally changed - For the better.

To be honest I would like to see Brown go down. He doesn't seem to be aware of his unpopularity. He seems to fallen into the pit of blind ambition, that the last three primeministers have fallen into before they are ungracefully turfed out and sit on pavement outside parliment in shock wondering what happened. I am being unchristian. I critcising his ablility to do the job, rather than him personally.

However, I wouldn't like to see people vote him out for the sake of voting him out, but only if there was a crystal clear guarantee that the system was going to change. At the moment are saying back Gordon as your leader, and trust him. If feels like the original big brother, an enforced dictatorship and mps are lemmings. Scared probably of losing more of the personal interests they have tied up in parlimentary role.

Courage to and well done to those who resigned. It is an indication of some sense of honour even if I am unsure about their motives. Brown have some honour and pride, step down and allow another appropriate, interested and honest member to have a crack at the job.

This isn't just about Mps expenses, it is about everything! The voting citizen has felt policitally powerless for so long, I believe that we are finally see this rage expressed as mercilessly as they have strung us up with bureaucracy and draconian ideas.

My wish that is that this bloodless revolution that sweeps through the system at all levels, allowing those in the wings with some integrity and common interest in what's best for the best in our society and community to emerge. There are painful sacrifices to be made, it is little in comparison to the series of maladministration, policies and economic cock ups that affect our lives for years.

All mp's past achievements mean nothing in this truly glorious moment in history, take advantage and lets make things work better for everyone at every level.

If Labour want to stand a chance, elect a new leader who embraces radical change in everyone's interest's.

Best wishes...

The Media Hustler

So, alongside the usual adjectives used to describe members of this government (useless, venal, grasping, greedy, shameless to name but a few) we can now add spineless.

Twelve more months of drift, appalling waste and utter incompetence will now follow.

God help us.

There is no honour amongst thieves!

Brown is fighting for his survival on two fronts of course; he can manipulate his allies all he wants to save his leadership, but the country - the voters are saying that nothing less than a swift general election will do. He really is between a rock and a hard place, a change of leader may buy this government some time but his only choice is to either stand down as leader or call a general election. If he does neither I fear that people will soon be on the streets in protest . . .

I thought David Milliband's words were cleverly ambiguous when he talked of the need for a strong leadership etc. but avoided mentioning Brown. How can anyone still be convinced by a show of loyalty to Gordon Brown. Any politician who genuinely supports him is totally out of touch with public opinion.

Milliband and Johnson are clearly stute political operators who do not wish to be associated with leading Labour to a train smash General Election. Hutton, looking to future prospects will do as they wish. Blears and Purnell are little more the posturers with large egos, so that leaves us with GB for another year, which will probably suit Cameron and Clegg just fine. They must be seen to be calling for an election appearing eager to lead and help, but knowing full well next year would be better for them. As for Balls/Cooper, that injunction hides something, no way they can be promoted.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

Surely the time honoured tradition is to wind up a colleague to destabilise, while appearing loyal yourself. Then when a leadership election is called, you have no blood on your hands.
Hazel Blears had to resign because of damaging allegations about to come out (and ignored when they did by the BBC) and her timing was not to destabilise, but to cover her own indiscretions. Purnell, however, had no skeletons in his closet (that we know of, anyway). Perhaps Purnell is David Miliband's first move.

I Dont think he will go... and why should he? Look at the factors that have contributed to his supposed downfall. If we wernt in a econmic crisis Whats the likeyhood that half of these things comming to light? esp. with regards to minster scandles. Were all to Blame, We just turned a Blind eye.
Were all in difficult times, let him help in the best way he can.

TODAY WHEN WE LOOK AT LYNCHING PHOTOGRAPHS, WE TRY NOT TO SEE THEM. Looking and seeing become seeming forms of aggression that implicate the viewer, however distressed and sympathetic, in the acts that...
[Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]

Okay, those three had their chance. Now I see they really are after keeping in power until the last minute. There are no more chances and the sooner they go, the better - and the longer they leave it, the worse it will be for them. It will probably be more than two elections before there is another chance, and none of them are likely to be back.

I am utterly fed up with hearing Labour Ministers and MP's defending Gordon Brown as the best man to see us through the current troubles. Are they not listening to the electorate? I wish the likes of Nick Robinson & Co would mention this very point to them when they are interviewing them and point out that we vote for MP's to enter Parliament to look after our views. They are NOT doing this. They are looking after their own jobs. We WANT GB to stand down and have a General Election. Will our respective MP's kindly pass this message on to GB and get shot of him

The sense of being in a rudderless ship only actually applies to England.

The Scots and the Welsh take great comfort in knowing that political structures, respectively a Parliament and an Assembly, are in place in their countries, with politicians working exclusively for them.

More fool my English compatriots for allowing ourselves to drift into this situation.

It is pretty nonsensical for us English to continue outsourcing our politics to senior professional politicians from these other countries.

English people have to stop being so apathetic about politics, a 'monitoring' democracy is not enough.

4. At 11:09am on 05 Jun 2009, alexander-curzon wrote:

"IF BROWN DOESNT GO DONT BE SURPRISED IF THERE ARE RIOTS."

The way this seems to be currently panning out - that would be riots some time between now and next May then!

At the moment, it looks like he might just be getting away with it all.

Of course, there are the English Local Elections results, the European Election results, the PArliamentarly Labour Party meeting on Monday and the vote for disolution of parliament next Wednesday still to go.....

John Hutton had been fighting his corner for more troops and cash for Afghanistan against strong opposition in No 10. he loved his job. Would he have gone if he was making progress?
It looks like the Chiefs of Staff and our lads in Helmand have suffered another slap in the face by this travesty of a Prime Minister.

What a despicable and craven spectacle this government presents. How depressing it is that of hundreds of available MPs and all the Civil Service, Brown cannot find a single person better than Sir Alan Sugar, the used-up computer salesman, to advise on business. How frightening it must be to be Alan Johnson getting out of bed in the morning if he truly believes that he cannot do a better job than Gordon Brown. How difficult it must be for David Miliband to arrange himself in his office chair without the support of a spine and how dreadful it must be to be Alistair Darling's mirror as it stares back at the Cabinet's sadly still-reigning champion expenses cheat.

To 'shore up' something suggests a prop of a short term nature.

Looks like it will be a case of 'last man standing' to challenge Brown

The labour party, the government and the country is crying out for a stong leader. One who can lead us all in these difficult times and take us to the promised land. Gordon Brown is not the man. Unfortunately, those who think they could be king aren't up to the job either. There is nobody left in the labour party capable of doing the job. Is there anybody in the other parties up to it? Well we all remember what happened when we found out that Mr Blair was not the messiah. Will the same be said of Cameron?

Brown is now the biggest asset the Tories have and Purnell is right, he will help to lose Labour the next election. But how the Cabinet can think shoring up Brown looks like anything other than a pathetic attempt to get another 12 months of pay and expenses, is beyond me. When will a Politician answer a direct question, the constsnt trotting out of labour ministers to state that Brown is the best man for the job is hypocritical in the least, and at worst downright insulting to the electorate.

Seems obvious to me - Brown or No Brown, they are going to lose the next election and who'd want to be LAbour's William Hague?

The reshuffle isn't close to being a reshuffle - its just replacing a few rats that have jumped ship.

Rather than leading Brown is yet again reacting to events not shaping them which has been his problem ever since calling off that election.

When is a reshuffle not a reshuffle?....when they're all still sitting in the same chairs!

Brown couldn't reshuffle a pack of cards...or is it house of cards.

But Nick, didn't we all see similar signs of 'support' in the closing few of months of Thatchers time as PM, Brown is heading the same way, whilst a (re)appointed cabinet minister would have a hard time if they do choose to resign at a later date they could, actually, find themselves in a 'Heseltine' type of role. Like him or loath him he did help Major reconcile both factions of the Tory party in the early '90s - enough to allow them to win the '92 election, snapped from certain defeat (yes I know that Labour scored an own goal on the eve of polling day, but that alone didn't loose them the election) - if anything, if a 'Geoffrey Howe' style resignation did occur, it would be doubly damaging, a previously supportive member of the cabinet, whose support was offered only weeks or months ago now feels that there is nothing left to loose...

As for a closed ballot amongst Labour MPs, as has been suggested, to prove that Brown has (at least) the support of a majority of Labour PLP would go a long way to securing Browns future as leader - the fact that Brown has not done (and shows no signs in doing) a Major style "Back me or sack me" moment is very telling.

The fundamental problem for the English people is the political incoherence of the current system of Government.

Once we English have our own Parliament and 'political UK' is consigned to dustbin of history then all will become clear.

Political England will be far more focussed when English people are running our own country.

Nick I am sick and tired of listening to you and the BBC, when will you all start acknowledging what the majority of the BRITISH PUBLIC want, not that 3 self interested MP's have negotiated themselves a good deal aand as such has shored up this 'grr' PM, you need to GO along with this sshameful government, I am so angry now, you have all been given time to do the right thing by OUR country and you have failed miserably.

If you already concede Labour will lose the next general election then...

Become leader now in a divisive coup and lose the general election (and some personal standing) almost immediately, or wait until Mr Brown loses the general election and then become leader with much less pain giving yourself a clear run at regenerating the Labour party. Not a hard decision really.

We have seen a number of ministers and MPs coming out in support of Gordon Brown saying it is better for the country and the party if he continues.

Most of your commentators seem to think that if he stays, the Conservatives will get a 100+ majority whereas if Alan Johnson came in, he would have a chance of reducing this gap before an Autumn election. Surely, a government with a tighter majority "is better for the country" or are the MPs thinking of another year's salary and expenses.

The same people keep coming out with the statement that Gordon Brown has the policies to solve the constitutional crisis, the expenses problems and the economic situation whereas the Conservatives do not have any policies. If this is the case, surely better to go to an election now before the Conservatives develop their policies.

They cannot have it all ways!!!

demiJohncc
Market Harborough

Dear Nick,

And so the slow, dramatic and needless car crash continues.

Can anyone tell me what this country will be like when the election is called next year?

When Neil Kinnock was leader, the papers once quoted that 'the last person please turn off the lights' if he ever became PM. Now it is a case of will we still have electricity in June 2010?

Xxxx

problem: More people vote for c4's big brother than vote for politicians.

media solution : Turn politics into a reality show.

If you look at the Big Brother blog and this one the only difference would be that there are only 2 contestants discussed on this one. Dave has the look of a big brother contestant who wants to be famous for the sake of it and throws around insults like he's a contestant on the apprentice.

I think it would be dangerous if the news media has become just another form of entertainment and that it is influencing the news for maximum entertainment values.

These people trying to start a revolution are also the ones with the expenses scandal. No mention of that on the BBC News special with that bloke from Newsround.

I thought I'd paste a cleaned version of something I just put on guido's blog, because it's relevant to nick's topic here:

I hate to say it, but I think Browns safe until the general election.

There are only 3 types of labour MPs:

1) Those in 100% safe seats where the constituents all have the attitude of Id vote labour even if they cut off my legs. For these MPs why bother to rock the boat because theyd keep their seat regardless.

2) Those outside core labour areas. They know theyll lose their seat at a general election no matter what they do to their leader. For these MPs why bother to change leader when itd just mean theyd lose 12 months of gravy train money.

3) Those like Purnell who have some kind of conscience. These MPs are so rare in the labour party that they can basically be ignored.

Unless Darling or Miliband resign, Browns safe, and we all end up with a paralysed government for the next year who nobody wants headed by an unelected leader/PM, who are intent on continuing a scorched earth policy out of sheer spite to the tories.

I hate labour. They really dont give a hoot about the country, they only care about their own seats and trying to convince people that their sick/twisted ideology gives them a god-given right to remain in power no matter how much damage they do.

This is what the Devil's Dictionary by Ambrose Bierce has to say:

POLITICS, n. A strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles. The conduct of public affairs for private advantage.

POLITICIAN, n. An eel in the fundamental mud upon which the superstructure of organized society is reared. When he wriggles he mistakes the agitation of his tail for the trembling of the edifice. As compared with the statesman, he suffers the disadvantage of being alive.

Spot on!

No general election for 12 months now then...

All the calls for an early general election are fruitless - Brown isnt going to face the public until he has to. Brown knows the game - the economy is very likely to be out of recession by then, he is going to get some credit for this, and one suspects, that is all we will hear from him for the last 6 or so months of this parliament.

Why cant anyone at the BBC accept what the electorate is telling them,, you know, we pay you, not this blinking shambolic government, carry on and i will withdraw payment of license tax, on the basis i cannot support a labour organisation, you are a public body, ACT LIKE ONE.

who said that there is no honor among the thieves?

it seems that there is some honor among the theives,)

Denham is to get Blears' old job, perhaps Mrs Balls gets Health?

This sorry situation could drag on for a year, since I cannot see Labour MPs bringing on an election that will guarantee them an early bath. The best thing that the party can do is get rid of Brown now and at least stabilize their position.

Labour have no chance of winning the next election, not that the opposition offers anything more substantive, but with Brown still at the helm, Labour will be annihilated.

The bringing in of Alan Sugar, who got lucky and made his money in the 1980s, but has failed to achieve anything of note since, is another note of desperation. Still, for an egotist like Alan Sugar he must be cock-a-hoop at his elevation to the Lords - he will be even more unbearable as 'Lord Alan', though this, of course, makes another mockery of our so-called elected system of representation.

But then Brown will at least have the comfort of another busted flush sitting alongside him.

When someone comes to write the history of the last couple of months, Johnson, Hutton and Milliband can be listed as 'Guilty Men'.

Pathetic. At this rate, Labour will be lucky to end up with 150 seats after the next election - making them almost inviable as an opposition. With Johnson himself in charge they could conceivably have 250.

Nick, the fact that you think it's 'extraordinary' that some ministers are still being loyal to Brown that shows the real depth of the problem. It would be far more extraordinary if no minister came to Gordon's aid.

Disloyal ministers are now queuing up to stab Gordon in the front (not even the back!)

They apparently supported him when they thought it would do their careers some good. They handed Brown the crown without a contest in order to appear 'loyal' and improve their promotional prospects. They supported all his policies rather than rock the boat.

Now these self-serving politicians can sense the public mood - albeit a bit late in the day! They are jumping ship as if to disassociate themselves with the very policies they previously supported.

Gordon Brown is not the problem - it is Labour's policies that have created this mess. People are very angry about the economy, having been duped on the European Constitution referendum and the half-baked devolution for Scotland but not England.

Labour ministers and backbenchers must take collective blame and ultimately accept their punishment at the Polls.

Oh dear, poor old Gordon, who'd be in his shoes right now? No one it seems, not until, that is, he slinks off somewhere to write his expose of the Blair years. Looks like none of them knows what to do right now. Won't be long now, a week or so at the most. This man has bankrupted the country. Not long now though, cheerio Gordon.

"PeterJ42 wrote:

Purnell, however, had no skeletons in his closet (that we know of, anyway). Perhaps Purnell is David Miliband's first move."

Looking at his entry on the Wikipedia it sounds like he has more then a few skeletons. I would copy and paste it here but it is pretty long!

And he was another MP who flipped to avoid CGT.

Gobble Gobble Gobble de goose. OK, its a Turkey, but! Erm... I have a big problem. I am a staunch believer in democracy, however I turn to my colleague(this was yesterday) and asked him if he had voted and all I got was a big grumble as to what difference does it make and I looked at the people on the ballot and didn't know anyone blah blah blah. OK, fair enough! Does that mean we are having decisions made by people who really don't understand what is going on and go with the mob and are ready to blame anyone else but their own behaviour for anything that's wrong. I mean what have the Romans truly done for us? Sigh!

Oh feel free to interchange voters with politicians in the above. It does place you on one side of the other in my narrow minded view depending on which you chose ;-).Sorry I know you are not all Americans, or young children but I felt I had to explain it. Apologies to all Americans I don't really mean it.
Haider

Well, I guess that the old mantra of 'divide and conquer' comes to mind. We see these as 3 related decisions but, individually, none could be sure of success and wre not keen on martyrdom.

Just a reminder, folks: today is Friday. By next Monday, we could be starting yet another reshuffle.

It won't take long for the losers from this deckchair-shuffle to regroup.

I hate Labour. I hate Gordon Brown. The supply of adjectives to describe this rotten government is drying up.

Purnell has tried to do the country a favour. The gutless rest of the Cabinet are spineless and only interested in hanging on to claim one more year of salary and expenses. This country is in massive trouble but the Government only care about themselves. We need the Queen to step in and demand a dissolution of parliament immediately. Brown is a dangerous, delusional incompetent who is determined to destroy what was once a great nation.

I'm guessing that most (Labour) MP's are looking further than the end of their noses. The next election, when it comes might be worth losing.

Scenario 1 - Stick. If the economy recovers, corrupted MP ousted, & everything turns rosy by next May/June, Labour will still probably lose with Gordon, but not lose BIG, arguing on all the positive things that they can lay claim to: economy, jobs, crime etc, That will leave the tories to make their massive cuts and be as loathed as much as ever!

Scenario 2 - Twist. If they twist, get a new leader and go to the country, they will lose massively. They'll carry in to the election, all the pent-up resentment of the country & lose what remaining MP talent they have left, perhaps even a generation's worth. Remember the tories in '97, Portillo, Rifkind etc

#27 and #39

This seems like xenophobia which shouldn't really come into this matter.
Yes there is a so called parliament in Scotland and assemblies in Wales and Northern Ireland. However the devolved powers that these institutions have were historically dealt with departments such as the Scottish Office in Westminster and English MP's had little interest in the day to day matters of such. Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish MP's voting on "English" matters is quite clearly an issue but could be resolved with an English Grand Committee, and John Prescots idea's for regional assemblies was rejected by the same said English voters when they had the chance to take it. So some perspective please.

The issue's now at stake such as the economy, are NOT devolved in any shape or form so Alex Salmond et al, can spout all the rhetoric they like secure in the knowledge that someone else will carry the can, ie Gordon Brown in the British Parliament.

I am not particular fan of Gordon Brown but he probably is a man of intelligence and integrity (I would not like to have the responsibility he has!) and his failing was expecting others in the Cabinet to behave in the same conciliatory way. The unfortunate truth is he tried to and has failed to reconcile two distinct styles, his and Blair's. He was simply not ruthless enough. He would have not been in half the trouble he is had he simply got rid of the Blairites from day one. The likes of Blears should have been sacked (arrested?)immediately when her expense fraud had been revealed and Mandelsson, a genuinely un-elected and un-accountable individual, should not have never been entertained.

The individual decisions of any cabinet minister are of little consequence other than to settle petty grudges. Not only are politicians perceived, probably generally correctly, as liars, thieves, cheats and charlatans but modern gray suited professional politicians are shallow fakes who are so pathetically politically correct they have us all scared of our own shadow

We are in a mess and whilst I want a change too, rushing to satisfy media hype will serve no one. So stick to your guns Mr Brown, at least until you really do have no option.

You have to presume that many in the Labour party do not believe that the next general election is winnable and are starting to look past it at what happens next. They basically have two choices:
1) Leave Gordon in as leader to fail spectacularly at the next election. Afterwards, take the oportunity to clean out the old guard of the party and try to convince voters that the party has made a break with the past.
2) Have a leadership contest where no viable candidates want to stand. Fail spectacularly at the next election ending the political career of the poor fool who stood in as the fall-guy. Spend the next ten years in an internal power struggle relegated to the political wilderness. This is normally accompanied by the election of a new leader every 2 or 3 years.
While Gordon might have his head firmly buried in the sand on planet Brown, there must be some in the Labour Party who aren't completely stupid. Those in the party who are behind Brown are probably only there so that they can cut him loose later on.

Surely, it is at times like these that all good men and women come to the aid of the party.

Sorry to drag the Labour Party into this but this is not about personalities and careers. The shabby individuals who are using this for their personal aggrandisement are just as sordid as those who flipped their second homes.

The choice facing Labour is stark. If they dump Brown the country will not tolerate another appointed PM. There will have to be a general election by the end of October. If they retain Brown they might be able to stagger on into the New Year and have to face another budget.

The budget is the real issue not sleaze and not Brown. The British state is functionally bankrupt and will remain so for about a decade. I know Labour would like to present the next election as a choice between Labour public services and Tory spending cuts. However, if they leave the election until next year the issues will be more a case of what cuts, what tax increases and both by how much.

Labour is in a cleft stick. It needs a steady and growing flow of taxpayer funds to sustain its model of government. This flow is now going in reverse. Currently Labour is in denial about this matter and has bet the farm on an early recovery.

I reckon they will keep Brown and plan a spring election based around a proposition of Tory cuts in the hope of an economic upturn. Whether this is a workable strategy remains to be seen. I think Labour is finished but then I am more inclined to support another left leaning party.

#45

"I hate labour. They really dont give a hoot about the country, they only care about their own seats and trying to convince people that their sick/twisted ideology gives them a god-given right to remain in power no matter how much damage they do."

Many said the same thing about the Tories in the 1980s and '90s...

What you don't like, and what those in the '80s didn't like, is that they - either Labour or Tories - don't care about the same things you care about. Only Despots, Mugabe or Pinochet for example, don't care for their countries, whilst one might not like the flavour of either Thatchers, Blair/Brown politics it's way off the mark to suggest that they didn't/don't care about the country.

Hardly extraordinary decisions at all.

Johnsons has been saying it in public for some time when anyone bothers to ask, Andrew Marr did and got this same answer when the expenses furore was just beginning. He's being boring and consistent.

Miliband wants to be PM one day, he is young enough to have time to wait for the inevitable implosion of the next Tory administration after 2 or 3 terms. He gains nothing by making an attempt on Brown now or forcing the issue to a point where he risks having to stand for leader after the GE wipeout and defenestration of Johnson. Being leader of an opposition party during the first term of new administration with a landslide majority is unlikely to be rewarded - more likely to end in defeat and replacement at the end of the first term and chance gone.
One thing in politics is certain - as much as Labour are hated now in 10-15 years time the Tories will be hated to the point of unelectability, it was more hatred of the then Tories that allowed Labour in in 97 than a positive vote for Labour. Miliband can afford to wait. Better to let Brown fall at the GE and let Johnson take over as leader, wait and stand later, be the Smith/Blair not the Foot/Kinnock.

Both know that the assasin is rarely rewarded in the internal party politics essential to climb the pole or eventually by the public - loyalty ,in public, at least has a value (you don't air your dirty laundry in public), the public and press may clamour and laud them but they usually effectively end their upward progression as a result. Once the initial clamour has died down the public also shift against them - if they could be so disloyal then perhaps they are not the right people to be leading us.
Perceived disloyalty cost both Heseltine and Portillo their chance to be PM and Tory leaders even when the public largely thought they were jolly good eggs.

Hutton has shown some class, public splits in parties destroy them , a lesson the Tories have learned well. It may be argued that Labour is already destroyed but adding to the split would serve no purpose, it is clear they will lose the next GE, they will do so irrespective of the leader and at the current time forcing a new leader on the party will ensure the the GE is sooner rather than later, and the results will mirror the council and Euro elections where it seems Labour are heading for oblivion. Better to wait, some upturn in the economic outlook is likely and would be expected to reduce the scale of calamity for Labour as would be likley if forced to the polls now.

So their decisions are hardly extraordinary. Who wants to be the leader of the herd when the destination is an abbatoir.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

In reply to comments made @ #48

".../anti BBC rant/... ACT LIKE ONE."

Act like what, an unbiased broadcaster that they are meant to be, I think that you will find that is exactly what they are doing...

A riot Are we going to see armies of right wing grannies and fine young chaps in tweed jackets taking to the street? Brown may be a PR nightmare but he is doing a fairly solid job of sorting out the economic mess. He must not give in to the pressure.

#45. getridofgordonnow

I think it's even simpler than that. Remove all the soundbites about Gordon Brown's the best man for the job and what are you left with?

It seems to me to go something like this:-

'I'm not going to openly attack Gordon because I'll end up getting shafted in one way or another. If he or his supporters start smearing me, I'll end up de-selected at best and probably with my political career ruined. That is, openly going against Brown has risks to my reputation which I may need in tact if I have to join civvy street.

If I publicly support him then I will probably eke out my MPs wage and expenses until the next General Election which will probably be in October or maybe even next May. That gives me time to plan a future for myself. I can, of course, announce at any time up to then that I'm not standing (for family reasons, you understand!) and still get my golden handshake, but not announcing that yet gives me time to work out what to do with my future and to judge just how well Gordon and Labour is or is not getting away with it all.

I might even fight the next election and maybe even keep my seat - if I do, well then that's a bonus.

Least risky option (to me personally as an MP) is to stay put and carry on publiclly making out Gordon is the best man for the job. Don't openly support a leadership challenge but also don't criticise those who have jumped (e.g. Purnell) in case they do succeed and Purnell, or some such, ends up being the party leader.'

Or am I being just TOO cynical there?

this is ridiculous, yeah yeah yeah, re shuffle blah blah blah, means nothing, corrupt lying, abusive government, imposing unelected chancers mandelson, sugar, himself, none whom are wanted by the majority of public, in fact it appears once again, the public's opinion is being dismissed, the real evidence of labours demise in the election. smarmy shameful why do you give that mandelson time and space to spin out his....
WE have VOTED does that mean anything anymore, that police man should be arresting both of you enemies of the country and people.

bastards the lot of you

#67. JohnConstable

You know, I'm not sure just what implications should be drawn from your remarks.

Perhaps the conclusion we should come to is that whereas the English don't have the skills or acumen to run their own Government, the Scots do and also have the initiative to recognise the paucity, go to Westminster, get the job and do it.

You mean to tell me there are no English men or women MSPs in the Scottish Parliament?

Well, there's a thing!

noblewilliamw @ 62

I have noticed that when anybody such as myself speaks up for English people e.g. to have their own Parliament, then invariably somebody says 'This seems like xenophobia'.

It might seem like it, but it is not, I can assure you.

All countries have the right to self-determination.

Why should England be any different?

John Constable, gathering that you model yourself on an artist of the same name and are probably from Suffolk I think I can already 'paint a clear picture' of your upringing and political loyalties. Describing Fife as 'remote and clannish' simply highlights the complete ignorance of the political class that people like you and david cameron represent.

*47 jarebu wrote:

the economy is very likely to be out of recession by then, he is going to get some credit for this, and one suspects, that is all we will hear from him for the last 6 or so months of this parliament

........................

He will certainly try to TAKE credit for this and you are right, it will be 6 months of how I saved the country, if not the world. But who is to say that the recession would have turned for the better whoever is/was in power. That is the nature of recessions - you come out of them at some stage.

Far more important is the longer term effect of the level of debt that the country has and will increasingly have. Will he take the credit for this, too, and watch as generations of people fight to pay off this debt that he has incurred on our behalf? Oh no, that will be the fault of the nasty global problem that he had to mortgage our future to combat.

vote4me lord god vote4me
all I have to give you is
my balls and my word

Alan Johnson, not only to rush to the prime minister's defence, but also to declare that Brown would be a better leader than him.

With luck, and a halfway competent MSM* (one day), comments such as that should be preserved boldly in the public record and, when required, get brought out not just to haunt but shame (if they had any) those who have taken public money to 'serve' in the manner they have to date, 'getting on with the job.. of securing their sorry perks of office'.

*A country being 'lead' by a long cabinet table empty save one sorry bloke and a pack of biscuits (think Spitting Image and vegetables by way of updated analogy) seems a pretty optimistic way to spin what's left of this GOAT-herd.

I wonder if the roles were reversed, would Brown be so gracious?

I'm glad to see that Purnell's plea for Brown to stand down has been treated with the contempt it deserved - nothing but a smoke screen from someone found with his 'hand in the till' of MP expenses. No different from the others leaving the cabinet; trying to cite noble and wider concerns for their decisions while they are fleeing from government in fear for their political (and private) lives.

The only thing I can fault Brown for is for NOT being Tony Blair, i.e. charming or charismatic. I've not heard one good reason why he hasn't done a good job in the face of GLOBAL economic hardship, and no good reason why he should resign.

The fact that Purnell says Brown must go so Labour stands a chance of beating the Tories itself speaks volumes - it's not about retaining power and self interest at all costs, it's about serving the British people with the best people, the best policies and vision for us all

Too much spin going on within the press and BBC, but it is keeping all of you employed. It must be a perfect time for you all (too many to count) at the beeb who are covering what is supposed to be an election about policies both locally and in europe where you have totally failled to talk about anything other than back stabbing and black deeds. If there was any real political message it must be about why the Telegraph chose to subvert the discussion of issues/policies with the expenses row? that could have happened at anytime and subverts true democracy, but there again perhaps they could not find any policy worthwhile to give the tories any clear blue water? Perhaps as you have all now dealt the coup de grace to Brown/labour I can now expect to hear discussion continue on benefits of Tory policy.
By the way where are the so called shadow cabinet? the only ones I have seen of late are Cameron and Hague, Ken Clarke has obviously been silenced as his views on Europe are well know, Osbourne has he been disappeared because of his pechant for mouth in gear brain in neutral, where are they all, I haven't even seen any of the old grandees, are they all dead? even the libs seem only to be represented by Clegg. That would be a challenge to the beeb political staff to find them all.

By the way Nick saw you in your Mac outside No. 10 it's not very fetching, but perhaps you want to display an air of austerity, see we can all spin anything from anything.

For the country, another year of this Government is a disaster. The infighting will just get worse.

For the Conservatives, the only worry was that Alan Johnson would take over, and call an election. He might have had a honey moon period.

Alan Johnson and James Purnell were perhaps the only ones Cameron might fear. Now Alan Johnson has gone on the record as saying that he would be a worse leader than Gordon Brown. That is extraordinary.

Summary - Lack of rats seeking to take over as captain of sinking ship.

59 - When you get through the supply of verbs, nouns, adverbs, prepositions and conjunctions there won't be much left, will there?

60 - The Queen doesn't need to "demand" a dissolution - she does the dissolving herself. However this would be a very radical step and could well bring about a constitutional crisis unprecedented in modern times.

61 - Good post. The "stick" scenario isn't as outlandish as some on here might like to think. According to the IMF we appear to be heading in the right direction economically, albeit at a horrendous cost. Even the Daily Express seems to acknowledge this. Meanwhile Cameron has failed to propose any alternative course of action and I'd be surprised if Labour's propagandists are not already casting him as The Man Who Would Have Done Nothing.

Personally I'll not shed a lot of tears if NuLabour go to the wall but if the bookies' price was right I'd put a small bet on them avoiding disaster. We still have the problems that we don't know what we don't know in terms of expenses transgressions. Are some of those departing doing so because they know their names are on the list? Is the Telegraph holding back some of its information until it becomes more electorally damaging? Is all this falling upon swords frustrating this?
Finally, is there also the possibility that someone other than the Telegraph now has the full and unexpurgated version which - by accident or design - has not yet started to leak? Could this source be less charitable towards the Conservatives in releasing any detrimental information? Would this source reveal its hand now or would it wait until Brown had cleansed the government stables of future embarrassment, hoping to catch Dave with one or two unresolved skeletons in cupboards?

Now i don't actually think either of the political parties want an election and this, in my opinion, is why:
The Conservatives havent really put forward any half decent policies on the economy, therefore if they were to take power tommorow there would automatically be people comparing the government to that of the 1980's.
The lib Dems also seem somewhat clueless as what to do in the way of economic recovery, so there one opportunity to get into office would be tarred by this.
Secondly, the expenses row, which seems to be taking attention away from the '3 million unemployed by christmas'. Anyone with half a brain has realised this has been going on for years, only information from the last 3 years has been released, i would be overjoyed to see the Tory expenses of the early 1990's.
So ride out the economical downturn and let Mr Brown do his job and put in a genuine arguement this time next year about why we should vote labour.

Reglinski wrote:

"A riot Are we going to see armies of right wing grannies and fine young chaps in tweed jackets taking to the street? Brown may be a PR nightmare but he is doing a fairly solid job of sorting out the economic mess. He must not give in to the pressure."

Excellent mental picture, but don't think the reiteration of "Brown is doing a great job on the economy" spiel is quite necessary, largely because it's crap. I'm intrigued by the idea that someone can receive plaudits for sorting out a mess they were, domestically at least, heavily involved in. If you throw enough money at any problem it will ease, if he had any skill he would have been capable of easing the pressure without borrowing such sums. I think any apparent evidence of recovery is false; you cannot be in an improving financial position with such a level of debt, it is logically impossible.

In spite of all the coverage and gossip, the reshuffle, I feel, will be largely anti-climactic, very much an "as you were" with various nobodies replacing the previously deposed nobodies. Hardly an inspiring show of leadership from Brown, but it appears he is quickly running out of talent.

I'm sure he'll continue until the inevitable GE in a year's time, say what you want about his ability to the job, but he's certainly a resolute chap. Any lesser (or saner) man would have packed it in long ago. Plus, it suits the Tories to wait, wait until Brown destroys Labour, and then mop up next year with the best wishes of the country, with Labour confined to permanent opposition.

Totally predictable. Why on earth would Miliband or anyone else want the job of party leader now? Far better to wait until after the Labour Party gets creamed at the next general election, then they can start afresh knowing that their worst election defeat in a century will be the other guy's fault.

These are not extraordinary decisions at all... just calculated moves by three aspiring prime ministers all hoping for Labour's defeat at the next election so they can be Leader of the Opposition, poised to steer the party back to victory and securing their own place in the 'top job'

Had to laugh just now.

I was watching SKY news (sorry) interviewing a LibDem lady MP and a Conservative when over strolls some Labour guy (what is going on there... a fete? Isn't there an office they should be in? You know... earning their keep).

Seems the best the bunker could brief was that 'The Tories must be reeling from the fact they have not done as well as they expected', and 'the people want us to get on with the job'.

I think I heard the laughter from the crowd out here on the Welsh borders.

It is entertaining in a car crash horror kind of way, but surely for the sake of the country such delusional tripe should be kept in camera, and only used at the committal hearings?

Sir Alan has proved himself to be a successful businessman, entrepreneur and showman. But I am very sorry to hear he has taken Brown's Shilling to join the ranks of Team Failure.

To Lord Sugar I say this: Your well-known catchphrase has defined your style of leadership. Now have the courage to tell Gordon Brown.

Of course they all want Brown to stay on! There is no way that Labour can win the next election, no serious candidate will want to lead Labour into that.
The comments talked about to shore up Gordon are nothing of the sort, they are simply doing what is best for themselves in the long term.

Just a though: Johnson, who is thought of as a successor to Brown should he (be forced to) step aside, has been given the Poison Chalice that is the Home Office - historically all the responsibilities that non of the other Govt. deportments want(ed). How many ministers have had to walk away from that Job and the cabinet with their tails between their legs, it would only take a future "Baby P" or another psychopath to be be released from custody and then go on to kill again and one of Browns possible adversaries from within has to fail on his sword... Could Johnson not have accepted the cabinet position, probably not - do I see the hand of Mandy...

Labour need a nightwatchman to take the defeat and then move aside for the new management team. One contender is Margaret Beckett who could do with the pension and the other is Straw who could bith step down and be part of new management as he is a professional and offends no part of the party. Both have the advantage of being honest.

By the way, when's the Telegraph going to publish a list of the more straghtforward MPs?

I find nothing extraordinary about the decisions of these three. Sensible, I would call it. It makes good sense for any of them to stand by the current leader, if they have ambitions to lead the party in the future. And since we have a crisis of voter confidence (over the expense/allowance exposures) and are, possibly, about to begin to claw our way out of a pretty deep and severe recession, I think I would prefer the main people to stay at the top and take the rap for it all, than resign their responsibilities when things get too tough.

69. At 12:55pm on 05 Jun 2009, Reglinski wrote:
A riot Are we going to see armies of right wing grannies and fine young chaps in tweed jackets taking to the street? Brown may be a PR nightmare but he is doing a fairly solid job of sorting out the economic mess. He must not give in to the pressure.

========================================================

How many new posters are going to appear today telling us how wonderful Gordon is?

If gordon is doing a 'fairly solid job' I'd hate to see him struggling!

I see Sir Alan Sugar has been brought into cabinet with some ambiguous title to do what exactly.
Hopefully he will turn to Gordon Brown in the very near future and say those imortal words "Gordon this task of running the country for which you have been project leader has been an absolute shambles---- you're fired"!

is the new the enterprise Czar Lord Sugar the same alan sugar who bought 4% of woolworths just before it went bust? Hmmm now he joins the government just prior to it going bust....nice timing by the ex computer salesman...

Brown is a great leader and the longer he stays in power and keeps Cameroon and his secrative backers from winning the election by default then all the better.

This time next year Brown will be proved correct on the economy, and Cameroon and his friends will have then been outed re their expensess and the other misdemaners.

Three cheers for Brown.

#74, This is a bit off topic for this blog however...

I agree with you, England should be no different at all!, that was part of my point. However the opportunity was given and not taken. On considering my post you may be correct. The definition of xenophobia is a fear of strangers. Your comment "It is pretty nonsensical for us English to continue outsourcing our politics to senior professional politicians from these other countries." "Us English...", indeed!, it might actually just be racist instead.

Although there was little chance of it ever having any practical effect "England" and "Scotland" actually ceased to exist post the Act Of Union 1707. They were to be known fetchingly as North Britain and South Britain. Again, perhaps a technicality, but their is only one "country" and that is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

We are in the mess we're in because we've had, and forgive me for repeating myself, pathetic, politically correct career politicians who think that they somehow have a better understanding of what we want than we do ourselves. The problem is everybody in the UK has let them away with it. The result is the self-serving, divisive politics we know have.
"Nationality" has nothing to do with it. Policy has been measured and found wanting. Change will come but it is the responsibility of the voters to ensure this change comes and NOT politicians through reviews and star chambers. Politicians must NEVER be trusted absolutely again!

If you honestly feel you are somehow being ill done to, go and check the expenses claim of your MP. If he's clean, lobby him to get have another referendum for English assemblies. If not then vote for another candidate who will.

Winston Churchill said that democracy is not perfect but it's the best we've got. We are almost in a police state and given the laws that have been past by New Labour we are a heartbeat away from thought crimes. We are almost bankrupt with a wholly rotten and corrupt political class. These are the issues, not whether someone was born in Scotland, England, Wales or Northern Ireland.

People just need to get off of their fat reality TV fed bums and go and vote, what a difference it would make!

The actions of these 3 ambitious guys is not extraordinary...its a good career move.

The choice was...jump overboard or go down with the ship or survive and plan ahead.
They all selected to keep the holed below the waterline boat afloat till it limps into retirement with its unpopular captain locked in the wheelhouse.
Then when Labour's boat eventually sinks into oblivion at the election, these 3 rising egos can each claim party loyalty when they compete over the sacked captains job and get the chance to refloat Labour's boat.
Smart move boys!