Obamanomics

no trap, Brown is wrong for the UK.

Time for fresh legs.

Gordon Brown is like a mugger who offers me £5 before robbing me of £20- and then he wants me to be grateful!

When will this horrid Stalinist call an election?

D Cameron's policies will ultimately lead to total economic disaster much worse than the big borrowing issues of Nu Lab

It's a shame as we need a competent opposition. Lid Dem get's my vote on economic issues.

Well It would help a lot if the BBC became objective for once. Cameron is more likely to have his work cut out facing down the BBC who are insitutionally biased.
I wonder why you wrote the report the way you did, No mention of the Eurpean central bank rubbishing Gordon's plans, no mention of the Germans laughing at us.
.

Five days of huge political issues and the best you can come up with is Obamanomics.

Change is what Obama represents Change is what Cameron represents and you "merely" reply with what Team GB want you to.

Nick you must do better than this. Please.

It is quite clear that you support "Big Government" and the veiwpoint that Brown walks on water

Your second paragraph is gramatically incorrect. you had just refered to what Cameron had said and then say in doing so Labour...

You say that Obama "also" stands for optomisim and change right after a paragraph refering to what in this country would be conssidered more of the same namely "Big government"

Finally Nick as the current incumbants in government voting for Labour cannot be a vote for change however you and Labour would like to spin it

Nick it would be a good excercise for you to read Preston pdf on the economic crisis and who's fault it is and then STOP hailing Brown as the saviour of the world

Gordon Brown's goal is to prove that although David Cameron may be the young new candidate, he represents old, failed "do nothing" responses to recession.

Yep. No doubt that will be his goal. Meanwhile Gordon Brown's 'do nothing' party will continue to borrow and spend as if the last eighteen months hadn't happened.

As if unemployment wasn't increasing at its fastest rate ever. As if house prices weren't collapsing at their fasted rate ever. As if the UK consumer wasn't the most debt-burdened in the known universe.

'Do nothing party' my backside. It is Gordon Brown who is 'taking the tough decisions' and 'doing the right thing'. Ie nothing. In total denial.

Bit of local difficulty. Just keep borrowing more money. It'll sort itself out. Pay it back some time in the future. How? When?

What do you mean 'How. When'. In the future.

You're just the 'do nothing party'.

'Do nothing party'

'Do nothing party'

'Do nothing party'

Ner ner ner ner ner. I'm not listening. You caaaaan't make me. Ner ner ner ner.

You're the 'don nothing party'

etc

etc

etc

And he considers himself a 'serious man for serious times'.

He's seriously gone in the head.

You manage to avoid explaining or commentnig on David Cameron's economic proposals.

You manage to avoid mentioning the refusal of Germany to fall into line with Gordon Brown.

You manage to avoid explaining the fact, stated by your colleague Robert Peston, in The Times today, that (and I quote): "the contraction is highly likely to be more severe in the UK than almost anywhere else".

I repeat: "THE CONTRACTION IS HIGHLY LIKELY TO BE MORE SEVERE IN THE UK THAN ALMOST ANYWHERE ELSE".

Why? Surely we are best prepared according to our brilliant Prime Minister. I suggest, Nick, that there might be some proper stories out there.

https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7773476.stm

Talk about failed do nothing government.
One of the somethings Labour have done is to take away the double jeopardy rule hence one of these accused facing a fourth trail. total expense so far 22m

Cameron's way out? Easy!

£15 billion of savings that have been identified by getting rid of some of these awful quangos
Scrap ID cards

There - that's about £20 billion - far greater than the rob and grab policies of Brown.

Cameron is absolutely right - we cannot afford this tax cut, and will be paying for it for years.

I don't also seem to remember Obama being elected as our PM - neither do I remember Brown come to think of it - and though we are a global economy, we have to look after ourselves as much as possible - which is exactly what Obama has also indicated he will be doing!!!!

You are right that being 'optimistic' with brown in power is an impossible demand.

Brown is destroying our country - everything he does makes it worse, labour MPs don't care.

Whats there to be optimistic about?

You wrote: "David Cameron repeats his message today that Britain cannot spend its way out of a recession."

Perhaps I'm missing something; as far as I can see, that is not what was reported by BBC News. Did David Cameron not say that because the Labour Government has borrowed so much already, the UK economy would be at risk if the Goverment borrowed further? Did he not mean that the country should not spend its way out of this recession?

David Cameron referred to the fact that the heads of the International Monetary Fund had said a fiscal stimulus "is a good idea if you can afford it". My interpretation is he was saying that, because of the actions of Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling over the past 11 years, the country can't afford to borrow any more.

"...Labour wants to paint him as being isolated from the international concensus.."

Well, except Germany, possible the only country capable of spending it's way out of the recession. They think it's madness to continue to borrow money to pour down the black hole....

Brown has just shackled any form of opposition to ensure that he can claim other parties are do nothing parties.

How can anyone do anything any more when this government has just made our parliament impotent.

We are at the present time controlled by a one party executive.

They can do just about anything they want whether it's right or wrong.

A very depressing state of affairs when the country needs the best we've got.

Obama is fresh and new and has the charisma to take the people with him regardless.

Brown is just old hat.

Barak Obama had better have the pick of CIA operatives guarding nothing but his arse when he comes over here, otherwise half of parliament will end up up there.

A, "one size fits all global policy," is Gordon Brown`s only answer to the current economic downturn in the Uk. Our problems are very different form the rest of the world. He has done his reputation no good by claiming otherwise. Brown`s world tours seem to have come to a standstill as his "fellow" leaders appear to have rumbled him at last.

Gordon Brown`s sole aim is to encourage the great british public, by every means possible, to go on spending more and more by borrowing even more and more; which is why we got into this mess in the first place.

Gordon Brown does not have a clue what to do next. None of what he has done so far has worked. The vat cut was a total disaster. People naturally spend far more at this time of this year so what in heaven`s name was the point of reducing vat by 2.5%. That was the single most clearest case yet of him throwing good money after bad. We would have been better off if he left vat at 17 1/2%.

Obama may be able to walk on water at the moment; but it does not mean his policies are the right ones. He has yet to take up his appointment. Brown and Cameron are dealing with the here and now.

In the long run David Cameron will be proved right. We cannot spend our way out of this mess. Collectively we have too much debt. If you are overspent you do not continue to borrow - you stop spending, make good your capital base then resume spending when you are in a financially secure position to do so. Hard it maybe; but that is the only way out of this debacle.

Gordon Brown is clearly grand standing and is looking to a General Election taking place very soon in the New Year. However, no one is going to be thanking him when they finally wake up to the size of this country`s debt. Paying it back will have consequences for years to come - with a poorer standard of living, poorer public services etc etc.

Unfortunatley all of this is just mirroring the legacies of past Labour governments. I don`t know of one Labour Govt when it left power, left this country`s balance sheet in good order.

Why they are so fisically inept heaven knows. It just seems to be in their nature.

Spend now - repay later and damn the consequences; because we won`t be around to pick up the pieces seems to be Labour`s take on government.

I noticed Cameron speech the Cameron speech subtly warning people not to spend. Because there may be tax rises to pay for in the future. Or more likely trying to scare people out of spending, to make sure the economy can't improve and he gets into No.10. He doesn't have to worry for 5 years after that.

to U9461192 re his outrage over Labour trolling on the last blog.
On the last blog you mentioned Labour Trolls apparently using diversionary techniques and manipulating the media. Yet Whenever there is a negative story about the tories on,we get comments like this one from.megapoliticaljunkie@4

"Well It would help a lot if the BBC became objective for once. Cameron is more likely to have his work cut out facing down the BBC who are insitutionally biased."

and we also get a McCarthy witch hunt on whether Nick Robinson Is a New Labour spy on the payroll of Alistair campbell or peter mandleson. How many of these will we get on this blog?

More than anything, Obama symbolises change and renewal.

More than anything, Brown symbolises the same old same old Nu Labour shambles that got us into this mess.

Cameron happens to be absolutely right that "The government is putting the British economy at risk with its 'borrowing binge' ".

But that is secondary, as personally I'd vote for a pig's head on a stick rather than ever vote for Gordon Brown.

Nick,

I think you've spent too long in the Westminster bubble. The average man on the street isn't interested in Obamanomics. I'm sure the new President will fascinate some, if only as a novelty, but their interest will soon wane.

It is the state of the BRITISH economy that will determine the next election and here Brown is on weak ground. His Chancellor has just forecast that economy will begin to recover in the second quarter of 2010 - if it does, Labour have a chance - if it doesn't, they'll get hammered. Simple!

BTW why haven't you commented on the German dimension to this story? Mrs Merkel (SP?) has blown a big hole in Brown's - all the major nations of the world are following my lead - narrative. If the German recovery is stronger than Britain's (as forecast by both the IMF & the EU) then won't it be Brown who has the explainning to do?

Remember Nick - balance. The future holds potential pitfalls for BOTH major political parties. Not just the Tories.

At 2:57pm on 09 Dec 2008, Pot_Kettle wrote:
https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7773476.stm

Talk about failed do nothing government.
One of the somethings Labour have done is to take away the double jeopardy rule hence one of these accused facing a fourth trail. total expense so far 22m

---------------------------------------------

Sorry, this is just wrong.

The additional trials have nothing whatsoever to do with the removal of the double jeopardy rule. The removal of the double jeopardy rule only applies to people who are found NOT GUILTY of an offence. If there is new and compelling evidence which arises later, the CPS has to apply to the Court of Appeal to quash the original acquittal before there can be a new trial.

If a trial collapses for some reason (i.e. there is no verdict either way) then the prosecution can ask for a retrial. This was the case under the previous Tory government.

https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7773022.stm

I urge you to read this and tell me what you think about Tessa Jowells ramblings.

"So far the budget is on time and within budget," Say what?

"At this stage, I would not revise down our expectation for final cost... the use of contingency should not be seen as any kind of failure. It is very often the means by which the trade-off between time and cost can be properly accomplished." What?

"Headroom is being created within the contingency because risks that were costed are risks which, at this stage, have not materialised." er but surely they are still risks that could in all likelyhood materialise

David Cameron is being quoted on the BBC website at present...

'The government is putting the British economy at risk with its £20bn "borrowing binge", says David Cameron. '

What is he on about? The government is putting the UK economy at risk with a 500bn quid borrowing binge. To add to the 350bn it has binged on over the last decade.

20bn quid borrowing binge? If only.

Nick,

You wrote, Now, you may say: I can see how Gordon Brown is trying to position himself as politically and economically in step with Obama.

Bless you.

It would have meant just as much as if you had not used the full colon.

I certainly do say you can see how Gordon Brown is repositioning himself as you could be his speech writer, valet and major domo given the bias of your BBC reporting in favour of the Labour government and its policies!

Perhaps you could tell us all the date of the planned General Election that Gordon Brown is going to spring on us next year?

The removal of the double jeopardy rule only applies to people who are found NOT GUILTY of an offence.

Yep. Its for political opponents. People like that.

Nick,

The IMF and the OECD are in accord, Britain can't AFFORD to spend it's way out of recession!

Crash Gordon knows no other way, more government, brought forward capital projects, more complicated benefits, need I go on?

Cameron knows the country wants LESS government, less beaurocrats, less quangos and a 'bite the bullet' approach to the mess we are in.

The one thing Cameron fears is a quick election. Although people do not want Brown as PM Cameron fears that they will vote for him if they think that the economy is the only issue. So Cameron's main ploy is to delay an election. How does he do it? Well, he demands an early election. The more emphatically number 10 says that he is too busy sorting out the economy, the less possible an early election becomes.

If in 18 months everything seems gloomy because the economy is still in a mess then Cameron will get a landslide.

As for the question has Brown got the right policy, there are convincing arguments on both sides. No one knows for sure, so we will just have to wait until 2011 or 2012. However if indications of an improving economy can be demonstrated by 2010, then Cameron's political gamble of changing his mind and advocating an alternative policy, will show that however good his other policies seem, the economy is not safe in his hands.

Until the problems have worked themselves through the system then there is nothing too be done. Other than having some safety nets to break the fall for individuals. When the dust has settled then we can see where we need to go. Currently we are in the “phoney war”, things will really hit us in 2009, job losses & because of the weak pound a large rise in the cost of imported goods.

24 News demands instant responses, Gordon is responding, too early and as will all his forecasts too optimistically, VAT was planned to go to 18 or 20% when we will be in the bottom of the hole just before the election. Was it the hole or the election that stopped that?

Who was it that said when in a hole stop digging and we have been borrowing too much and the solution is to borrow even more? How does that work?

@20

I apologise 22Million quid well spent then

Nick

Your reports are getting more and more ridiculous!

I think Mr Brown's position is far more precarious. People are not spending money as he had hoped they would. The stores have reported that their figures are down on last year. No surprise there - jobs are being lost and people are reluctant to spend what they may need in a few month's time.

Trying to elevate Gordon in the eyes of the electorate, by associating him with Obama's success isn't going to work either.

Can't you try reporting the facts as they are - just for once? Please.

It's sad how people call bias on anything that isn't completely in step with what their tabloid of choice is spewing.

Lets be honest The G20 summit only said inflate if you afford it. The head of the European bank said the same.
The problem that Brown has is that if he doesn't inflate he would have to admit that it was him that put Britain in this dire position.

It is after all only Brown who still maintains that Britain will have "shorter and shallower deflation" that any other country. They are after all expecting it to end in the 3rd quarter of 2009, i.e. July if the PBR of 2 weeks ago is to be believed.
The man either knows something the rest of us don't or is deluded.
Bring in the IMF, that's how Labour Governments end.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

There is NO JUSTIFICATION for trusting

GORDYs ECONOMIC POLICIES.

The results of the last eleven years are the

PROOF.

Its impossible foir the opposition either

The Conservatives or the Lib Dems to put

forward any policy other than rough

intentions untill they see the books

WHICH BROWN IS DESPERATE TO HIDE.


I wonder how many more LEAKERS will be

harassed by the Police to prevent the

Opposition hold the Government to account.


WE ARE IN AN ERA OF POWER AT ANY COST

17. dhwilkinson

"..Because there may be tax rises to pay for in the future.."

There's no *may* about it mate.

*WHEN*

Brown taxed, spent and borrowed to to the hilt when times were good. Now tax receipts have plummeted and he's borrowed more. If I were you, I would fasten my seat belt...

It's not just Cameron who needs to avoid that trap - Browns plan is a disaster for the UK, borrowing with no plans how to pay it off.

The amount of debt is frightening, and the market has responded with faith in the UK being able to replay it's debts falling badly.

If Browns plan goes forward, the UK will make Japan's 'Lost Decade' look like an economic boomtime in comparison.

We've already seen, with the conflicting demands Brown's making of banks, that he either doesn't fully grasp the fiscal setup, or is prepared to ignore it for political reasons (spin in other words) at a time we need serious statesmen, not weaselly oneupmanship.

And his efforts to remove the BoE reports (it's in the Banking Bill, see Guido's blog) gives lie to his claims of wanting increasing transparency.

A reason that the Conservatives can try and hinder the recovery by scaring people away from spending for electoral gain. Is that we have a two party system where only the Conservatives can replace Labour.
There is nobody to turn to against the Conservatives negative and damaging way they like to win elections. Unless the Lib dems can get their act together stop being an inoffensive version Tory party. a Lego Tory party with a Lego Cameron as leader.

Your article is very glib but it does not stand up to even a cursory analysis.

The argument is not between doing something and doing nothing. It is between doing what is wrong and what is right. It is between doing something that gives a quick political gain but is wrong for the country in the longer term and proposing something that may count against you in the polls in the short term but is right for the country in the longer term.

Also, it is absolutely crazy to try to claim, as Labour is doing, that the right way to get out of the massive debt caused by over-spending is to spend yet more so getting into even more debt.

As for the young/old argument, Obama is untried. He may do well. He may flop. Brown is not untried. He has been around for 11 years and been found wanting.

Some of us are old enough to remember the mess created by the Wilson/Callaghan administrations and can see history repeating itself.

I've got it!!!!

Cameron needs to educate the voters into what borrowing 500bn (on top of the 350bn Brown has already borrowed) actually means.

It means that (provided the Chinese and Arabs are actually stupid enough to buy the 500bn in bonds he's proposing to issue) we will actually be working to pay interest to the Chinese and the Arabs.

We will be indentured slaves of the Chinese and Arabs.

Next time Brown gives it the 'Do nothing party'

Cameron should give it 'Party of slavery'.

Oh yes!!!

Now there's imagery to take to the polls.

Oh Yessssss.

Nick,

I almost didn't recognise you without the film-set make-up, but your voice still comes clearly through the blog.

So we must all kow-tow to the putative ecomonic policies of an untried and untested president elect, who may or may not be able to rescue his country from the disastrous legacy bequeathed by the present incumbent?

Against this imaginative construct we hold up the prime minister who managed to do the very opposite as chancellor - steadily deconstruct a stable economy inherited from Ken Clarke.

What are "tax cuts paid for by an increase in borrowing", and where the real cuts anyway (ignoring the messy reduction in VAT)?

I doubt if Keynes would have approved of wasteful schemes such as ID Cards etc. as a job creation stimulus - Cross Rail perhaps, but that would be too useful.

I'm no supporter of Cameron, but the profligacy of Brown frightens me - however you try to dress it up.

Obamanomics? Barmy economics, if you ask me.

As ususal people moaning on about BBC bias.

If that was the case then those moaning would not have their comments approved.

Nick,

if you are going to go all yankee on us then at least point out that some commentators are saying that Obama is tilting towards the political centre.

I refer to the International Herald Tribune which has ponted out that his appointments have drawn praise from the likes of the republican political strategist Karl Rowe and the conservative talk radio host Rush Limbaugh.

So if Gordon does follow Obama then he will actually become more conservative and upset the left. A left which is just waiting to take over. This could be quite an interesting new year.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

Even another article today on the Beeb contradicts this blog from the CML and Brown's failing policies.

https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7772873.stm

The worrying thing is that some estate agent thinks we're nearing the bottom. I think we are a long way from the bottom, things could get really nasty in 2009/10. Government is going to have to shrink as the tax receipts will not be there - either that or our debt will be so huge we will be sunk and worse than Italy.

Basic economics suggests Brown is wrong. The fact remains that tax receipts are down. Keynes may have been interesting for a small downturn but he doesn't hold the solutions for a longer deeper recession.

We will have massive inflation in coming years as the amount of paper being printed is ridiculous. This will lead to hyper inflation in a deflating economy.

No more boom and bust though!

Frank Castle post 35

Japans Lost DECADE


We will have a LOST GENERATION PAYING

BACK DEBT.



THANKS GORDY

@37 DWW
"Some of us are old enough to remember the mess created by the Wilson/Callaghan administrations and can see history repeating itself. "

I agree
I would be very surprised if anyone over 40 votes Labour next time around.
Everyone of that age must remember the bitter pill that the first Thatcher government was compelled to give us to deal with the previous administrations financial incompetance.
I hope that Cameron is up to dishing out the tough love that is needed this time around and i also hope that the public will understand why and give them a second term so that we dont have to go through the red blue red blue 70's again.

Anyone that has an eye on history will know that was this countries darkest decade.
30 years on from Wilson/Callaghan and we have the same scenario playing out again.
I wonder if Brown wakes every morning wondering if today is the day that the IMF come knocking

#36

A reason that the Conservatives can try and hinder the recovery by scaring people away from spending for electoral gain.

Wow. Somebody has been at the Labour glue again.

So the Conservatives, by countenancing fiscal responsibility are hindering the 'recovery'. If only more people would go out and borrow more money and buy more Chinese tat they don't need then everything would be marvellous again.

Give me strength.

Very poor reporting from the BBC, heavily biased in my opinion.
I never thought I would hear myself saying it but it looks like i'll be voting tory at this rate, the sooner the better too. How can anyone trust a man that bites his nails? Brown has no control over himself so why should we trust him?

No Nick it is Labour who are the 'do nothing' party - the only thing they know how to do is how to spend, they can 'do nothing' else, and they won't stop until UK is totally bankrupt or they are voted out (that is if it is possible to vote them out with our rigged postal voting system).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the whole cause of this crisis was people borrowing money that they can't afford to pay back.

Is Gordon Brown really suggesting that the way out of a crisis caused by debt, is to give the whole country a huge debt?

That approach doesn't make sense, and contrary to what the media would have us believe, the conservative party under David Cameron have come up with a different approach. It's not don't do anything, it's don't throw good money after bad.


Gordon Brown took us into this mess, and now he's going to take us deeper.

Does Nick Robinson still exist? I haven't seen him on TV, or heard from him on radio for days. It seems to me that he may have been sucked up into some dire alien ship and that these are the echoes of his former self being played out by some ghost writer.

Bring Nick back on to our screens / radio programmes forthwith and I might, just might, believe that he authored this dire piece of journalism.

In the meantime, perhaps I could be permitted to point out that if all you ever do is parrot the Labour 'Do Nothing' accusations against the opposition without ever considering whether the accusation holds water, then don't be surprised if that is what the public begin to accept. If you honestly believe that the policies on the economy being suggested by Cameron and Osborne amount to nothing, then heaven help us all.

Oh and by the way, what if anything is your view of the effective sidelining of the Speaker in yesterday's vote? Do you have anything to offer on this? No.

Why do we bother?

It is such a pity that too few people have experienced the Tory reaction to recession before. It not only lacked compassion, it also lacked common sense and any form of creativity. They effectively let things run their course and took virtually no positive action to get things moving. It was as if they were totally detached from reality - which they were, and would appear to be now.

The 'lure of Lamont' beckons...misery, deprivation, reposession, bankruptcy...all a 'price worth paying'...for other people that is. This is true Conservatism.

David Cameron and Her Majesty's Opposition (Larry Lightweight and the sixth form debating society) are becoming more unattractive as every day passes...but showing their true colours beautifully!

Nick

Great to see you are back on line!!

You've obviously had enough of 'Greengate,' but your thoughts on yesterday's debate and vote would be interesting. You are after all the political correspondant!

Today, two parliamentary committees have gone against the government's wishes and launched their own independent enquiries: isn't this unique? What does it tell us about MPs satisfaction with yesterday's government motion, I wonder?

On to economics: I actually think Cameron is being exceptionally brave.

He is facing up to the issues in our economy and telling the truth as he sees it. It's a pretty horrible truth, and it won't endear him to many who would no doubt rather put their heads in the sand. It won't in my view be a vote winner, or make him popular. Labour will no doubt label him 'nasty' as well as 'do nothing.'

However, over time he will be proven right and people will recognise and respect that.

You quote Obama: it's going to be very interesting. He was elected on a ticket for change promising - don't forget this - middle class tax cuts. Brown has not offered this: quite the opposite in 12 months' time, in fact: Brown has promised tax rises (NI etc).

In reality, Obama finds his tax cutting room for manoeuvre increasingly bare, despite the enormous advantages the US government has over the UK when issuing and sustaining very high levels of debt, given the dollar's role as the world's reserve currency, etc.

I respect Obama hugely and was delighted he won. He may well be smart enough to say when he arrives: 'things are worse than I thought; to get through this, we're all going to have to behave responsibly; tax cuts right now just wouldn't be responsible; we need to reduce the federal deficit before we can cut taxes, but when we can taxes, we will.'

Don't forget, Obama has 4 years to play with: if he gets spending under control early, he will more than likely have room to cut before going to the polls.

And if this does happen, where will that leave Brown?

The story next year - and we're already seeing indications of it in the recent data - is that the UK economy is going to be in even worse shape than Brown's recent budget anticipated, and government borrowing is going to soar well above even those appalling scenarios.

What will you be saying of Cameron's warning then?

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

#45 pot_kettle

I wonder if Brown wakes every morning wondering if today is the day that the IMF will come knocking?

Shouldn't think so for one minute. He's probably smiling every day - after all, he's got a very secure future ahead of him...unlike the rest of us!

The thing is, Obama will be dead in the water as soon as Americans start seeing it's a whole lot easier to talk the talk than walk the walk.
Barack Obama is vacuous and will soon be deeply unpopular in America. He's just run around saying "Yes, we can" over and over again until the quarterwits in the States believed him.
What did George W Bush's fiscal stimulus in 2001 do other than store up debt problems that have laid waste to the global economy several years hence?

Gordon Brown is mentally not fit-for-purpose for the job.

It's a shame that sycophantic journalists continue to espouse that he is the saviour to all the problems.....that HE created.

In fact it's more than a shame, it's a disgraceful drain on the TV Tax to employ middlemen like Robinson, when we could just employ Campbell and Mandelson and they could write the blog themselves.

Ah, So the do nothing leader, of the do nothing party, hold a press conference, to out-line his intent.

Which of course was "DO NOTHING"

Aint politics interesting!

oh no barker is back with his 80s Ben Elton politics.

grow up.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

"The biggest risk Cameron is taking is opposing what I call Obamanomics."


Obamanomics will be the printing of billions of dollars. Obama will get away with that as the dollar is a Reserve Currency.

We would not, so that policy should be opposed.

Obanomics as you call it calls for widespread support of the US manufacturing sector and services sector. Thanks to Brown's shortsightedness and incompetence Britain only has a service sector (financial services) that is falling apart. Ironically what remains of the car industry in the UK depends on the US bailing out the big 3 carmakers in the US - Ford, General Motors (Vauxhall) and Chrysler.

Nick you and the BBC reporting are also quite naughty in not emphasising the terms of the repayments of the government loans that the UK banks have to repay. 12 percent in the UK but only 5 percent in the US. And you then wonder in all innocence why banks are reluctant to lend commercially at 2 percent! Under these terms ALL the British banks would be bankrupt in SIX months. If that happened business confidence would be killed off - would the alst person to leave the room, please switch off the lights...

I also get the feeling from the American press (Washington Post, NY Times etc - their reports are really good btw) that Obama is not at all impressed with those he holds responsible for the current economic mess. He also dislikes politicians who proclaim themselves as world saviours - ring any bells? Another difference betwen the UK and the US is that an enormous investment in infrastructure is required in the US. New Orleans has not fully recovered, many road bridges built in the 1930's are falling apart and something that is overlooked quite often is that poverty levels are higher than they should be.

I don't think many in this country are remotely interested in Obama or his onics.

Stay close to nurse for fear it will get worse is how some voters feel about Brown. Better the devil they know.

However, I am convinced deep down most people have some insecurity about his spendthrift policy and that it is all one hell of a gamble.

Meanwhile David will learn to earn his spurs. All this is giving him time to plan his strategy and he IS a strong forthright person no matter what some people say. He will sit well with Obama, similar ages for one thing.

This government believes in the " keep doing it even if it doesn't work," philosophy, 'cos it might work sometime." Brown, Darling and the rest of the sychphants who keep Nu Labour in power have now lost all credibility. Even the lovely Merkel has now realised that throwing good "borrowed " money after bad is stupidity of the highest degree.

'....People shouldn't kid themselves into thinking that past spending levels are sustainable. Diminishing tax inflows cannot be replaced with ever rising levels of public sector borrowing in order to sustain spending levels that are simply not sustainable indefinitely : Investor appetite for government debt is not limitless and the more we borrow the more the premium for new debt we will have to pay. We need to guard against this – otherwise we will be propelled into a downward spiral where rising borrowing costs have to be met by even deeper spending cuts: The reality is that over coming years the current levels of public spending will have to be pruned and pruned hard....'

From your local Tory MP?

Think again.

Charlie McCreevey

European Commissioner for Internal Market & Services

Part of his speech to the Association of European Journalists today in Dublin.

So much for Obamanomics, Nick. RIP.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

"My-Pet-dragon wrote:
As ususal people moaning on about BBC bias.

If that was the case then those moaning would not have their comments approved."

No that would be censorship, it is possible to be biased towards something but still allow opposing viewpoints, our entire concept of government is based upon that simple fact.

The Speaker of the House of Commons would have a natural bias (they tend to be elected from one of the two main parties) however they still allow debate.

Nick,
if the BBC and Nulab keep repeating the "do nothing party" mantra there is a chance people will begin to swallow it. Mr Cameron is right to question the affordability of Nulabs more borrow, spend and tax solution and to call an election. It is high time for fresh thinking and a clear out of this democracy stifling paraphernalia.

Um, am I missing something?

"David Cameron repeats his message today that Britain cannot spend its way out of a recession"

True, I didn't actually hear what Cameron said AND I am relying on the BBC's story (foolish, I know), but DC appears to have said that he won't match the government's spending plans and he doesn't think its a good idea to borrow to get out of recession.

So, which is it? Nick's view or the main story? There is a (ever so slight) difference between not spending your way out of recession and not sticking to the government's plans.

Thank you for your kind contribution, Mr Postgate. Things have got no better since.

I hear a lot of talk about change but very little about what "change" actually means. But, change is the stuff of Zen Buddhism – change is about change within the world and the self, about accepting change around you as well as within. Now, here's a subtle thing: the Anglo-Saxon view suggests that change is something we make happen, but the more Eastern view is that change is something we allow to happen. Likewise, many people view change as being something in the world that has to change but rarely consider it may be themselves that need to change. Change can be a scary thing as old certainties and self-images crumble but what is crumbling? Ideally, delusion as one hare-brained scheme after another bites the dust and only reality, whatever that is, remains.

I also hear a lot of talk about people doing something versus people doing nothing. Well, "doing something" and "doing nothing" aren't necessarily what people think they are. Again, this is an issue of presentation versus substance. In the Taoist sense, doing something is just the ego flexing its muscles while doing nothing is a hands free following of the optimal line. The words "something" and "nothing" are merely labels that obscure more than they reveal. The secret isn't to do too much, such as Cameron's claims that the fiscal stimulus is not enough, or to do too little, such as Cameron's idea to throw everything to the market. Perhaps, this is why the Prime Minister's minimal fiscal stimulus and talking up green shoots looks more appealing to me. It acknowledges reality but helps create the conditions for us to roll through this crisis and come out in better shape than we went in.

I don't run my opinions past Obama's or Cameron's worldview, so what they think or what position they might wish to claim is neither here nor there. Sure, I can identify with the Prime Minister on a personal level because we have similar rare personality types, and that can be seen in echoes of policy and personality but, what? I've kept it quiet but my interest in politics has been nuked over the past few months and who cares what the "smart mob" thinks. Yeah, we've got a recession on but I've got some stuff fixed in my own life and some external stress has lifted, and I FEEL GOOD. Yeah, baby. Rockin'. Well, let's not get carried away. I feel fine. No, I FEEL GOOD. And Gordon Brown makes me feel happy cuz he does. So there, nyeh.

I noticed Cameron speech the Cameron speech subtly warning people not to spend. Because there may be tax rises to pay for in the future. Or more likely trying to scare people out of spending, to make sure the economy can't improve and he gets into No.10. He doesn't have to worry for 5 years after that.

Nick
Please go for a walk outside of Westminster village for 5 minutes and you will see that the real people think (I mean the ones that pay taxes not the ones that are on benefits and that will never work as long as they can avoid it ).
They do not have more money to spend , if they spend it is because the high street is slashing prices by 50%. They are really worried about the extra taxes they will have to pay after the elections. More pain for very little gains for middle England.
Whoever wins the next elections is in for a seriously rough and unpopular ride.
As much as I would hate to see Brown ( or the dodgy Lord to be exact) in charge for an extra 4 years it would be a small price to pay to get rid of ZANULabour for ever.
They created the Brown stuff let them get their hands dirty to clear it !!!

Derek, sorry Prime Minister . . .

What about the proposed National Loan Guarantee Scheme to ensure banks lend to small businesses? What about cutting spending on ID cards and other waste we don't want? What about . . .

I could go on, but I daren't disagree with you too much . . . O no, I can hear sirens in the background . . . I think the police are coming this way . . .

Prime Minister, I'm really sorry. I really am. Of course, I believe you. Yes, the Tories would do nothing. Honest . . .

The overwhelming anti-Brown consensus on this blog is matched by the mood in my work-place (private-sector, electronics), which is that Brown squandered us into this mess, and we, the private sector, will be impoverished for a generation at least getting out of it. If spending money we haven't got was a good policy, we wouldn't be in this mess now, would we ?
The only solution is a MASSIVE, and permanent, cut in public-sector spending. Better that the unproductive bureaucrats go on the dole than the productive ( and realistic) people who generate what little wealth gets created in the uk.

Remember, all Labour governments end in financial disaster.

#42
Don't be unkind, you know there's a race which has problems with mirrors...

#45 see my #70.

In general, if anyone wants to see what things have been reduced to, read Bob Peston's blog too. Hail to the Chief...

As far as I can see President Elect Obama - with no previous experience in the matter - intends to see America through this crisis by spending money on the Infrastructure. This plan will increase America's National debt by £2,000,000,000,000 to £12,000,000,000,000.

There is no indication that America can repay this debt (other than by inflation). When the major bondholders feel that they may be unable to service the debt then the rush to the exits will be a sight to behold - probably most of American industry and property will be bought up by Middle and Far Eastern Countries.

The same could well happen in the UK. For your information the trade balance continues to deteriorate - the figures means that each person in the UK has £600 less to spend in the economy this month than last month - the only way we can keep up the same level of spending is - you guessed it - to borrow.

My recovery plan would be for the Government to use its dwindling resources to protect our manufacturers/ exporters with finance through the Northern Rock bank and remove support for our retailers. As the economy shrinks fewer people will be in the retail/ service sections of the economy (wealth distributers), however targeting the manufacturers will help turn this economy again into one of wealth creation and one that can trade profitably with the rest of the world.

As I have said before doing nothing in the face of recession is at least a strategy.

This is far more of a policy than anything produced by Brown's government which seems to want to hose down their client vote with taxpayer funds and savers' deposits.

What you are telling us is that if this government has a strategy, it is get Gordon re-elected at any price.

The Conservatives problem is that Cameron is all presentation and Osbourne lacks the forensic skills to take Labour economic policy to pieces.

We need to get rid of this ghastly government as quickly as possible before it does for us all. The problem is that the alternative is not very convincing at the moment.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

Nick

If DC made a statement about coping with the recession, would the BBC actually report it? Or would the public be led to believe that nothing was being done?

I did notice that the Debate in the Commons yesterday was very low on the News list. Surely this can't be right...!!

37. At 3:59pm on 09 Dec 2008, dwwonthew wrote:

"Some of us are old enough to remember the mess created by the Wilson/Callaghan administrations and can see history repeating itself. "

As they say in the Borders: it's aye bin - ie it's always been that way, for those needing translation ;)

It's occurred to me that when Mr Brown said: "No more boom and bust", he was in fact speaking the exact and literal truth. What he meant was: "I'm going to send this country into so deep a bust that there'll never be a chance of another boom."

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

What happened to my comments on your 5 day disappearance? Just winding up for the big finish, when my computer went off-line. Very mysterious and conveniant although I do not consider myself in any way a threat to anybody amd really of no important in the big world out there.
From comment No.50 onwards, I am one of many commenting on you failure to comment on the happenings in parliament - nothing as far as you are concerned.

You ended on 03.12.08 and re-commence on 09.12.08 with attacks on Cameron; I am not his greatest fan but cannot cope with inequity in any form.

#73 bluntjeremy

Very, very well put.

What a surprise. Five days absent, then ostrich like, the Green/Martin/Police matters have been solved, as far as this blog is concerned.
Unsurprisingly I am not the only one to have noticed this. Why have you adopted this ;policy towards a very serious matter? After your blog on 3rd December, conspicuous by your abence, now back resuming Tory attacks on 9th December. Not I might add on the matter in hand, but now taking over from Mr. Peston on economics.

Fantastic

One of the biggest rows in the house this week and we get this shrewd analysis.

A classic public sector effort.




Youve been on a beach and sent this in by text.

Cameron is right in that spending your way out of recession is not possible. The whole international community will have to come to accept that there has now been a reset in how value is perceived and created in the global economy and until this reset is complete throwing money at 'the problem' actually only continues to dig the old hole deeper. What is true is that no politician yet understands what the new rules are - not surprising as they have yet to evolve. Fiscal stimulus may help the new paradigms accelerate but timing will be everything and the right time is still a long way off. Only when the issues of recession are clearly felt and understood will the new answers become obvious. This is the legacy of past failures that we have inherited from our failed leaders and captains of industry and finance worldwide. It is essential that we do not pass our generations failings and debts down the generations.As it is our children will inevitably pay for our recent follies. The new way forward will both astound in its simplicity and confound in its challenges. Lets try and keep the consequences of the transition to a humane and acceptable level.

#73

Glad to hear that you've embraced "CHANGE"

Aint life easier, when you understand the plan!

Sarkozy, also understands "change"

Nick

Why are you repeating this ridiculous 'do nothing' mantra invented by the Labour spin doctors? When did any government 'do nothing' in a recession? 'Doing nothing' is pure Labourspeak. The Conservative party has given many suggestions to combat this crisis but you and the rest of the BBC are choosing not to listen. That's not Cameron's fault. It does not behove you as a journalist to take sides like this and regurgitate this rubbish. Why can't the BBC write a balanced article showing both sides of the argument, setting out what each of the main parties would do?

Look guys Frau Merkel is right.

There's no point in doing something for the sake of doing something.

Borrowing more money and using discredited Keynesian stimuli is suicide. The pound will slump (if not collapse) inflation will rocket and we will be paying back our excess for much longer than we need to.

Gordo will destroy this country if we let him. The more I see him the more I am convinced that he is mentally ill. I'm being serious.

The only solution is a MASSIVE, and permanent, cut in public-sector spending. Better that the unproductive bureaucrats go on the dole than the productive ( and realistic) people who generate what little wealth gets created in the uk.

57. derekbarker

Derek if you listened to the debate last week you would have heard what Cameron would do.

He named 5

Can you remember 1?

Oh, Did anyone mention Frau Merkel and the new stimulus for Germany!

Ouch! after all, you cant just do nothing and let those fantastic German cars go to the wall, with the do nothing plan!

Get up to date! Jonno #88

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

I agree with you. I think Gordon is mentally ill too. Perhaps Charles has a slant on this as he shares Gordon's rare personality.....!!

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

#90
Carrots, why should Britain steer a course of letting the crisis run its length (do nothing) when the rest of the world is doing something to stimulate their economies?

I would have thought that your induced rate of carrots, would improve your eye sight! STOP, LOOK ,LISTEN!

Nick you begin by tellling, about Cameron. that -

- - Labour wants to paint him as being isolated from the international consensus.

You may have well continued - I'm here to help them.

Unfortunately, neither of the two main parties in this country offer change or renewal.

New Labour represented by the older Gordon Brown is simply firefighting to save his reputation. The government, meanwhile, are churning out the same old tabloid-pleasing (yes, that includes The Mail) policies.

David Cameron doesn't offer renewal or change simply because he's young. The fact is he's finally 'come out' as a nasty Tory and hoping the tabloids will love him for it.

These are two politicians in political parties that are happy to stay bogged down in the past - they have no intention of taking a risk and changing.

Referring to Obama as "the world's biggest celebrity", that's a sly cheap shot Mr Robinson, or should I call you "Britain's least favourite Conservative paid for with our TV-Licence money"?

I'll be happier when certain 'rare personality types' become extinct - at least in the political arena.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.