Shock news

Now he can't even make a speech without it being 'clarified' five minutes later by his advisors.

Is this man an accident, a disaster or a catastrophe? Probably all three but he certainly he should not remain our prime minister.

he doesn't know what he thinks except he wants the job he patently can't do.

Resign.

Who is writing for our leaders these days? We have had Milliband talking about 'enormous values' - which is totally meaningless.

GB really shouldn't need to issue clarification as to what he meant in a newly published article that bears his name. Though from the experience of decoding his budgets, the detail was never in the actual text.

Surely if you were going to relaunch, you woud get the the basics right.

The whole party's lost the plot. General Election now.

The policy of carry on regardless is hardly a shock to us Nick.

Nick,

My spies inside Labour tell me that part of the re-think / re-launch is as follows....

Ed Balls is going to change his name by deed poll to "Sarah Palin" and he will be branded to the public at large as the "English Bulldog with Lipstick".

.... there are doubts inside Labour that Blair, with his Iraqi war, was sufficiently "right wing Christian fundamentalist". Brown intends to take that ground for himself.

We've seen the Palin bounce in the US polls. It is going to be interesting to see if Brown and Balls can pull this off in the UK.

If I were Crash Gordon I wouldn't waste my time rethinking Bliarism, Brownism or any adaptation of either as both have ill-served this country in the long run. In any event he has only 600 days before being booted out which is no where near enough time to implement any form of adaptation.

All this is a desparate last throw of the dice to spin Crash a new image for himself ahead of the poltical gallows being prepared at his conference and most certainly by the electorate.

No, what Labour needs is many years in opposition to re-energise, re-think and adapt rather than making policy and policy U-turns on the hoof!

The game is up for them and the best GB can do is plaigurise the words of Sir David Steel for his conference speech and proclaim at the end..............I am ashamed to be the shortest serving Labour Prime Minister to say to conference......go back to your constituencies and prepare for opposition!"

Unfortunately, and as usual, Brown's statement is words, words, words and nothing more.

You have to laugh. No wonder I'm confused. Though Brown and Blair were a duo until the straight man was left standing alone with no script.

I currently feel that I am in a parallel universe. Maybe I may find out which one when tomorrow they start up the Large Hadron Collider. I wonder which universe Gordon inhabits.

This is getting seriously unreal because at least when I say what I do then I don't have to issue a clarification within five minutes.

I say what I mean and I mean what I say.

What worries me most of all is that this Prime Minister, who paid for the wars Blair has been involved in since 1997, is now supposed to be in charge. We know that our soldiers no longer fight for Queen and Country they fight wars for failed politicians.

I am shocked at the state to which this country has fallen. It is an insult to banana republics, we are even worse than that.

If it's a novel idea in the eyes of labour to keep informed of current events while you're running the country, then that explains quite nicely why the economy's currently in the toilet.

The world constantly changes; you adapt to it or you die. Labour have failed to adapt, or even understand what's going on for eleven years, and their time for total extinction is nigh.

Openly admitting that they haven't understood or done anything about anything for eleven years is basically a political suicide note. Thank goodness they've admitted it. Let's hope they follow through and hold a general election before they do any more damage.

Although this is hardly new for Labour. Blair did much the same.

Humpty Dumpty for PM?

We don't need any "clarification" of what he thought he might possibly have meant to say. We just need him to realise that no-one wants him any more and he should resign. Is that clear enough for you Gordon?

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

No wonder he looks so awful. If this is the totality of his summer of brooding and nothingness then may God have mercy on us all.
The thing that is not working is the government entirely and this man's complete lack of understanding of what he is doing is making the whole mess even worse. The best thing he could do for Labour and the country is resign and allow a General Election before Labour is forced to actually stop being a political party owing to lack of presence in parliament and a lack of funds.
Election now please

GB writes: "We need to be honest with ourselves", and, "this is not about rhetoric", after a spiel of denial about the state of Britain and his ability and deservedness to solve it. Heal thyself, physician.

I can't help feeling that Mr Brown is genuine.
I am not a Labour supporter, but it is undeniable that M Brown has not really been in a position to implement the real changes that he has wanted to.
Mr Brown's vision that he set up in June 2007 was of a moral, hardworking Britain. One where business could flourish and where the disadvantaged were aided in regaining work and pride in their work.
When the global economic market takes a down turn, which even Mr Brown could not have avoided, whatever the Conservatives like to claim, the Brown administration can merely react in the best way possible.
So far when you strip away aesthetics from policy they have actually done as much for Britain, given the very tight wiggle room that they have. The stamp duty holiday being just one example.
Mr Brown can't really promise Brownism as opposed to Blairism since they are largely two shades of the same colour.
The problem Mr Brown has is that he is not as media savvy as the party was in 1997 and he certainly has been a lot less fortunate.
That having been said the entire Labour party looks tired and bloated and needs some time away from office to reinvigorate itself. These symptoms were, however, showing under Mr Blair and aren't just a problem of Mr Brown, although he has done little to really abate them.

The world did not start in May1997. There was always globalization.

So, the shocking news is what exactly Nick. Pray tell us what we did not already know, this has to be the worst Prime Minister since, well the last worst Prime Minister.

Take the windfall tax, which some people want. Where was it in the party manifesto at the last election? Nowhere.

Was there a committment to a referendum on the new European constitution? Yes, so what did they do, changed it to the Lisbon Treaty.

So, there will be no windfall tax. There will be new conservation tax. Definitely not a windfall tax, there are no apples.

Gordon Brown is still an Aspidistra.

Does anyone, Brown included, believe a single word they say?

They are all either liars or deluded.

(OK, some Nu Labour supporters are neither: they're gullible dolts).

I now await our very own clarification here from all the usual suspects.

What Dear Leader meant to say.....

I endorse the pithy comment at #3.

The country is experiencing serious economic decline in a very uncertain world and we need strong leadership to rescue the UK. Confidence in the UK and the £ is evaporating with each fresh clanger from GB and his Darling.

Forget Gordon or Labour's woes - regardless of politics, we are all in the same boat which is sinking fast and so someone somewhere needs to wrest the controls from this inept captain before it is too late for the country, let alone the Labour Party.

Sorry Gordon - you had a go and you just aren't up to it. Please just accept it and return to your manse, and give us a chance at the polls to elect the person we think can save us.

Nick
Could you repeat that please?

Oh and post 13!

"Murray has always maintained he is Scottish and I think the being British comes a long way behind"...therefore you support a Swiss.
That hardly makes you very British does it.

Andy Murray is British as is Gordon Brown. You can dislike them for being sour faced and not quite achieving number one status in the world, but not because they are from Fife and Perthshire.

Incidentally I do find it rather repulsive to cheer against a Scot, especially one who has had to experience the horrors which Andy did.

Nick, There is no such thing as 'Brownism' (unless you are referring to the contents of a nappy - very apt in the case of anything produced by Nu Labour).

The man's simply not up to the job. He knows it. The party knows it. The country knows it.

Scotsmanonahorse @22,

So Murray is a surly git because of a childhood trauma.

What's Gordon's excuse?

Thanks for that Nick. It's now all as clear as mud.
Not your analysis, which is getting more insightful by the day, but all the positioning.
Blair/Brown or Brown/Blair it's all the same. It's like watching a wounded dog die.
We are witnessing the end of the New Labour Project and this is mirrored in the TUC, the Labour Party and among some Labour MPs.
The Conservatives have picked up on this, with a little reported open letter from George Osbourne to the TUC, as I observe here:

https://theorangepartyblog.blogspot.com/2008/09/tory-tlc-to-tuc-marks-end-for-brown.html

The Palin bounce is surely worth trying. Is Michael between travels at the moment? Surely he can be brought into a ministry of all the talents.

"I'm Prime Minister and I'm ok ..."

#1 RobinJD

Always appreciate your sensible, well constructed postings.
You are completely right, the gentleman should resign, very quickly.

There seems to be a lot of racist haterid towards Scottish people here.

Is it any suprise we Scots don't want to be associated with England.

@ johnathan_cook

so to clarify, what you're seeking here is a Balls bounce?

29. At 4:54pm on 09 Sep 2008, A_Scottish_Voice wrote:

"There seems to be a lot of racist haterid towards Scottish people here.

Is it any suprise we Scots don't want to be associated with England."

The trouble is it could be a chicken and egg situation. Andy Murray did not start well.

Nick - I'm not quite sure what this blog is achieving. The responses are predictable to the extent that the great majority could simply be copied and pasted from one topic to the next and the next without emendation or amendment with little regard for your own comment or what you report. Many of those who did try to present rational arguments on one side or the other are now notable by their absence (with a very few honourable exceptions).

And I think I can draft the all too predictable responses to this post before I send it.

26 theorangeparty

I had a read of you blog.

With the up-swell of trade union power you have got it spot on when you say that 'True Labour' is re-emerging from the ashes of New Labour.

29. At 4:54pm on 09 Sep 2008, A_Scottish_Voice wrote:

"There seems to be a lot of racist haterid (sic!) towards Scottish people here.

There's a lot of paranoia in Scotland.

30 Grawth

Thanks for putting that image in my head....!

#32

Then don't send it, prime minister

Jimbrant

I fear you are confusing a blog with a forum. Young Nicholas does not trouble himself with reading these comments.

Grawth @30,

Yes. The intention is to toss him off a 30 storey building and see whether one happens. Or not.

Shock news; we're part of a global economy, and the guy who's been in charge of the money for 11 years has only just realised.

well, we've had a global economy for a very long time (the romans, vikings, chinese, egyptians; just name your historical example; there are 100's of them and our own country has always been in there somewhere/somehow), so if that's news to labour then we need to physically kick them out of Parliament immediately.

If this is indeed the case, why is "Brown to rethink policy" still headlining the BBC News front page?

Unless there was any substance to the story in the first place, why was this ever a headline?

jimbrant @32 asks:
"Nick - I'm not quite sure what this blog is achieving."

It is allowing the majority of voters to express their disgust at this government in the sure knowledge that via various channels it does ultimately get back to those in power (irrespective of their pretense that 'all is well'). I can assure you that this is so, though I will not divulge how I am certain of this until my sources go public.

Surely you wouldn't want to close down this channel or, heavens forbid, censor it just because you don't agree with my/our politics?

Or would you?

Nick - Keep asking about them about the POLICIES.

No amount of spin or 'clarification' will have any effect if our unelected PM is unwilling to change some of his failing POLICIES.

So Brown wants us only to accept failed Brownism or failed Blairism?

And where are all the loyal labour posters here at the BBC forum???

My word if he is being roasted here by a ratio of 9+ to 1 against, then it is time for labour to resign en-masse.

jimbrant the responses are indeed predictable, because the overwhelming majority of the country are sick to death of Brown, Blair, Labour and everything to do with them. We do not believe a word they say anymore and so ANYTHING they say is met with a resounding GET OUT!!!

What is so difficult to comprehend?

We, the majority of the British Electorate (according to all recent opinion polls) are heartily sick of the most corrupt, malignant, dishonest, incompetent, negligent, hopeless and crime ridden bunch of politicians ever to be placed in the commons. We do NOT want you or your policies ruining and blighting our lives any longer and for the love of God, GO AN GO NOW!

Now then, Jimbrant, you are more than welcome to keep supporting this wretched bunch of misfits and incompetents, after all that is Freedom and Democracy isn't it. Even though Labour would love to scrap those outdated ideas, if they were even half capable of actually doing it.

I must admit that I am relieved somewhat that they are so incompetent. If they were competent, then they really would be very very very dangerous indeed.

So carry on supporting the vile dumpage of a political party if you wish, but please, do not criticise the vast majority of others writing here that they are are predictable because we see Labour for what they are.

Post 41. Max sceptic.

Just to pick u on one of your points....

I wonder how many Government Ministers actually read Nick Robinson's blog and comments we all make?

I wonder what they really think in private?

Calling all Scots.

Sadly I really do dislike G Brown and A Murray, for similar reasons.

But I like Murray's brother (whatever his name is having watched him play tennis; he laughs, smiles, enjoys himself. His childhood doesn't seem to have made him surly and miserable.

Brown has no excuse. He didn't even sing the national anthem when England played South Africa in the Rugby World Cup Final but just looked unconfortable.

The trouble with Gordon is that everything does have to be clarified. You think he's given an answer but then you go away and look at it and realise there might be future 'wriggle room' or ambiguity in this aspect or that aspect and so you have to go back and ask. Why is that I wonder? Is it 'cos he has form in crafting his answers and statistics to sound like they're telling you one thing but on closer examination they're full-on Orwellian double-think.

I think it may be.

For example: Gordon will say 'under Labour National debt is down since 1997'. You, not unnaturally, think national debt is down. Whereas national debt (including PFI) has literally doubled. From 330bn in 1997 to 660bn today.

Another one.

'I have balanced the budget over the 'cycle' You think - cool, over the last 10 years or so we've had a few billion saved and a few billion in deficit every year but otherwise we're no worse off. What it actually means is 'I increased national debt by 300bn quid' and then ignored most of it.

You really do have to clarify everything. And then clarify the clarifications. And then....

ANd even then he's being disengenuous. He's very intelligent you know!

re: 43, purpledogzzz

the vile dumpage of a political party

I like that phrase. It sums up Nu-Liebore perfectly.

# 43 Purple,

Good name given the prose style, like it!

Seriously though, you seem a bit hysterical about things. The government are surely not as bad as all that bad, are they?

They've done a decent job on the whole, don't you think?

#46 (U and the numbers)

Just about all politicians are like that though, aren't they? It's not just Gordon so why pretend it is?

I suspect there's a little of the "let's kick the easy target, let's boot him when he's down" at play here.

Yeah... Mr. Brown needs to re-think a lot of things. He can start with continuing Britain's unwise involvement with Amerika's bizarre and insane foreign policies... especially Britain's foolish support for Amerika's imperialistic, war-mongering hegemony in the Mideast. And do ewe folks really think that installing Amerikan "freedom missile" $ystems ninety miles from the Russian borders makes Europe (or the Russians) feel more secure? No need to comment about Amerika's invasion and occupation of Iraq-nam.

Obviously... the Russians are not to be completely trusted , but they seem to have basic common sense about the world... and after all they are Europe's resource rich neighbor. Come on! Be honest. Who was really the bad guy in Georgia? What happened on August 7th, the day BEFORE the Russians were compelled to take military action?

And then there's the problem of legal and illlegal immigration into Britain. Better rethink that Mr. Brown. Bad enough that recession (or much worse) is at hand, and that decent paying jobs for British citizens are getting scarce, but a nation that does not protect its borders, language and customs withers away into extinction. Better fix immigration... or there will be no England in fiftey years. Period!

I think Mr. Brown and his Labour collegues had better rethink a lot of things... or there will be rocks (or worse) flying in the streets to break those ubiquitous Orwellian cameras. And when I talk rock, I'm not talking about white collar criminals at Northern Rock fleecing mom an' pop taxpayers.

Meanwhile... over here across the pond... a lot of us are plotting to burn down the village in order to save it. Indeed! This was the ultimate lesson of the war profiteering $cam of Vietnam. The exact quote, as a matter of fact, was: "We had to burn down the village in order to save it." Beware! There is a rapidly growing segment of the U.$. population that wants an all out revolution... with guns blazing!

Perhaps Mr. Brown should think before he re-thinks.

Gordon is like a man walking through a field and being whacked in the face as he stands on one rake after another.

whack, whack, whack!

NorthernThatcherite @44,

Officially, I couldn't possibly comment.... ;-)

Actually, I'd imagine most of them! (After reading The Gruniad, of course).

They would deny it naturally, and say they don't pay attention to public opinion.....

But we all know that they are a bunch of vain and shallow charlatans.

We need to give Gordon Brown a chance. Ok, one year has gone, but still, we need to see what he can do. At the moment, he is the best man out of all labour mps.

When will the electorate be given a chance to "rethink"?

34. At 5:02pm on 09 Sep 2008, darwinsmonkey wrote:
29. At 4:54pm on 09 Sep 2008, A_Scottish_Voice wrote:

"There seems to be a lot of racist haterid (sic!) towards Scottish people here.

There's a lot of paranoia in Scotland.


Feeling paraniod [sic] doesn't mean there is no reason not to be.

Well, I think you're all complete bonkers. In what way is Gordon Brown unfit to lead the country?
Let's start with his supposed faults. The economic crisis = not his fault at all; it's the fault of a bunch of dishonest US crooks. The housing market = side-effect of the crisis, which is apparently just as bad as house prices rising. What's better, what do you all want? Cheap housing or expensive housing, or middle-of-the-road housing? It's going in the right direction, but you won't acknowledge it. His lack of a photogenic face = not at all important. Again, what do you want: a leader like Blair who is good with people but talks out of his bum, or someone like Brown who is shy in public but a very intelligent man and knows what he is talking about.

Surely policy is monitored regularly. Does No. 10's statement mean that Gordon Brown didn't bother to review the policies of his predecessor when he came into number 10? Does Gordon Brown think that the market remains in the same state year on year or did he just wait till the country was on its knees before he tried to change things?

BTW to all the Scots on here. I lived in Scotland for 2 years and I know how much you guys hate the English so a bit less of the victim-complex on this blog would be appreciated.

re: 49

I suspect there's a little of the "let's kick the easy target, let's boot him when he's down" at play here.

It's more a case of 'quick drive the stake into Nu-Lab's black heart once and for all before it recovers'.

Adapted; according to Oxford English dictionary "make suitable for new use or purpose.

Re-Think; use ones mind actively to form connected ideas about some one or somthing.

Again this is all talk and rhetoric, not about implementation or policy.We are seeing the death throws of the Labour administration and as with John Major the election will not be won it will be lost . Apathy will prevail from the electorate.

Would have thought that it was a government's job to continually look at its Policies in view of whatever conditions were out there. Perhaps this is two much to ask GB on an ongoing basis or do we wait for a crisis before re-thinking and adapting.


Interesting how and "obscure" magazine is able to show what G.B. is thinking, and then 10 downing st play it all down.

#41 MaxSceptic: "Surely you wouldn't want to close down this channel or, heavens forbid, censor it just because you don't agree with my/our politics?"

No to both, of course. You should have noticed that I mentioned that people on both (or more ) sides of the argument no longer think it worthwhile to post here.

"It is allowing the majority of voters to express their disgust at this government"

The majority of voters may disagree with 'this government' (why is it always 'this' and not 'the'??), many may be disillusioned or disappointed, but 'the majority ......disgusted'?? I won't ask for evidence for your statement, because you and I have done that before.

This so called goverment has become a parody of itself. It really is risible. Every morning there is some new hash been made of something. There really is nothing poor old Gordon can do now except look forward to a long and very boring retirement, bless him. I hope he enjoys his dinner tonight with the TUC bosses.

In Brown's Monitor piece he mentions 'fairness' a significant number of times.

Presumably in this context, he means 'political fairness'.

For the individual and family, that roughly means does the Government treat us fairly in respect of the goods and services it provides in exchange for the taxes it extracts from us?

If a balance is not achieved, then the incumbent party in Government is not likely to be voted for by that person and family at the next election.

You have to judge for yourselves ... has Gordon and Co. provided good value for money in all that they have done cover the past decade and continue to do, in exchange for the money that you have handed over to them?

The people usually have a good sense of these things ... and a warning for politicians .. people hate being 'ripped off'.

# 56 (Alex)

Yes it's a veritable frenzy of Brown Bashing on here. All day, every day. Anyone would think he's like the worst PM in the history of the United Kingdom!

It's all just because he doesn't have the quick and slick persona that we seem to need these days. What it brings to mind for me is the bullying of the unpopular boy at school, you remember? Yeah, I reckon a lot of the people posting here used to do that or (perhaps more likely) they were that boy and now it's payback time.

Alistair Campbell said on Newsnight he wouldn't be looking at doing his old job again.
Even he couldn't do anything for Gordon Brown.
Although I thought I detected a bit of Campbell in Darling's speech to the TUC today. Might be wrong.
Despair is certainly endemic in the Labour party as every day they get a little snippet of something to excite only to see hope dashed again the day after.
Is somebody in Number 10 just playing silly to amuse themselves?
Ah Well! The TUC conference turned out to be a load of nothing. You were lucky not to have to report on that Nick.
It makes me yearn for the days of real politics before the boring set questions routine.
Great verbal boxing that was.
Compulsive viewing for all of us.

I'm supposed to spot a difference between Blairism and Brownism? To be charitable, maybe he's just got problems getting a new message over. I know what he needs - a spindoctor!

sagamix @63 wrote:

"Anyone would think he's like the worst PM in the history of the United Kingdom!".

Well, he is - officially - according to public opinion he is the least popular PM since records began.

I agree that Lord North and one or two other were worse, so let's say since Ramsay MacDonald.

Also: "What it brings to mind for me is the bullying of the unpopular boy at school"

And very shameful these episodes are too. Some lonely, misunderstood, difficult young chap has the misfortune of being singled out and bullied. Children can be very cruel.

I'm sure every one of us had someone like that in our school. Now think about 'that boy' and his behavior again: even though he was mistreated and misunderstood, would you really like him to have grown up to become Prime Minister?

# 62 (John C)

So hard to measure objectively though, isn't it? ... value for money, I mean.

Like, if you don't agree with the Iraq war, then every penny spent on that was a waste. Better state schools don't matter if you send your kids private, so that would be a waste too. Better hospitals? Who cares if you and your family are healthy?

See what I'm saying? ... how would you go about assessing whether we've had VFM from this government?

I think it's a red herring, sadly.

The same old tory names screaming their obcenities in the same old Tory way.
Every blog that comes up you could write a list of the names that will appear first and if you felt it was worth bothering you could pretty well predict what their going to say concerning the thread.
Nothing, just the same old rheteric if you turn over the page its nonsense and insults and look on all three blogs their infested with Tory uninteresting rheteric.
It is becoming as I said some weeks ago a Tory self admiration society with no room for anyone else's opinions.
Its no wonder to me that labour supporters are leaving these bloggs daily if your not careful Nick your going to end up with these bloggs being exclusively for Tory headbangers and a total waste of time.
It would be a good idea to start with, if there were a limited amount of posts removed by the moderaters before being dropped from the bloggs for a month the policy you have doesn't seem to be used big mistake.

What it brings to mind for me is the bullying of the unpopular boy at school, you remember? Yeah, I reckon a lot of the people posting here used to do that or (perhaps more likely) they were that boy and now it's payback time.

Yeah. That'll be it. It's not that for some unknown reason posts attacking Brown are no longer struck down on political blogs. Maybe the uber-Brownites have given up 'problem-posting' them in despair or perhaps the moderators, in hand with the media, have finally woken up to what many of us have been saying for years.

THE EMPORER HAS NO CLOTHES.

He's not prudent. He's remortgaging the country and blowing the money on fast cars, loose women and foreign holidays. Like the great British chavatariat do when their house goes up in value instead of living within their means and paying off their mortgage. He is emphatically not behaving prudently.

Maybe you weren't around on internet blogs (say) five years ago but if you tried pointing that out on most of them you'd

a) be censored for calling Gordon Brown 'disengenuous' or 'disembling' or

b) be snowed under with Labour-HQ generated Carol Voderman type stats - (a figure from the top row, two from the middle row and two from the bottom row please Carol)

c) subject to any amount of personal abuse and then problem posted if you responded in kind.

Very Alastair Campbell.

But that isn't happening any more. The mood of the media, the moderators and the whole country has turned. It's not bullying or wanting revenge for bullying. It's the sound of billions of scales falling from millions of eyes.

Politically it is a re-run of 1995. The only question is, will Gordon Brown do the right thing like Major and Lamont and attempt to leave the economy in good shape or will they complete their scorched earth approach.

I guess we'll know in 18 months. Either way things are going to get a whole lot worse before they get better.

With all due respect Nick, if one decodes what you said a year ago, Brown should have been on the back benches by March this year.

What was wrong in your analyses, Nick?

Good night Nick.

Dear Gordon Brown- the British don't want you running Britain. If you don't agree, call an election and prove me wrong!
I don't care that "lessons have been learnt" or that "we are listening".
You and Bliar have run this country into the ground.
Please don't bring the UK crashing to the canvas with you!

Yes it's a veritable frenzy of Brown Bashing on here. All day, every day. Anyone would think he's like the worst PM in the history of the United Kingdom!

Why would we defend any previous PM? The problem we have now is the current one. The rest have moved on. This one is the problem.

We can't be letting him off the hook just because he's not as woeful as (say) James Callaghan. Although given time (say another 18 months) he's guaranteed to eclipse anything we've seen in modern British history in his woefullness.

Happy to be proved wrong by events. I don't want this country to go down the toilet any further. I just have to hope that Gordon Brown doesn't spite us all to show us how clever he is. That's what it looks like he's been doing for the last five years.

56. AlexR4444

Firstly welcome, we are a socialist short here today, Max shot one dead last night, so you are very welcome indeed.

Seondly, may I invite you outline exactly why Brown is fit to be my PM.

I promise we will all get back to you quickly.

It would be a good idea to start with, if there were a limited amount of posts removed by the moderaters before being dropped from the bloggs for a month the policy you have doesn't seem to be used big mistake.

Ohhhh yeah. Censorship. Very old-Nu-Labour. Denial of platform.

I'm guessing how this would work - somebody would post something critical of the Labour party. A labour shill would then insult them personally. The original poster would repond in kind and then get 'problem posted'.

Repeat to fade. Kill the message. Failing that kill the messenger.

Seen it before. I'm sure they're problem posting everything on here already and seeing if it will stick. Trouble is, like I said, it's 1995. The tide has turned The blogs, the moderators, the country have all had enough of this disingenuous government with its squandered trillions, its bogus stats and its arrogant, disingenuous ministers.

Thiiiiiings can only get bettttteeeeeer.

Give it 18 months and they will.

Labour are finished.

Good.

Post 63. Sagamix.

Please just name me one new distinct Gordon Brown policy that he has introduced since being unelected into office that is good for this country in the long term? Just one please?

I am no Tory, I just think that this a dsgrace, they are all as bad as each other.

As for Gordon, well exactly what is the point Gordon? What are YOU actually going to do!

I mean actually DO!

You have actually never done anything in your life. Oh, let's see, independence for the Bank of England. Does nobody understand that whoever won the election that was going to happen. You seriously do not think that it happened just because Gordon said it should happen.

In the same way that the troops were on the border of Iraq before the 2nd Gulf War just in case war was declared, then it was the same with the Bank of England. It seriously was going to happen, no matter what! Get real folks, just get real.

Does it really matter what this forlorn gentleman says. GB is in serious denial primarily about himself and the role he is acting to the embarrassment of so many. There is nothing wrong in accepting that you do not fit a role no matter how much you wish you did. We all have to do this in our lives although we dream of being able to. Gordon Brown has few if any attributes compatible with his dream. His fighting and whining for the job was an embarrassment and it is pitiful to watch him now. Mr Robinson you are dwelling on policies and his proposals as though they matter but are you not wasting your time. It is a very poor act. The fact that there is no other person within the government or the party leadership that commands any confidence is a devastating position for the country as it struggles to avoid economic obscurity.

It is well past the time surely for GB to go to the country. He must do so in haste however. Both parties must have a thorough shake up and present to the electorate a body of personel from their ranks who can command a vestige of confidence at the polls. Then policies might take on some meaning. Times are very serious for Britain and we certainly have no room whatsoever for anyone to play at being PM.

Initially I thought Brown wrote opaque nonsense because he was unable to express his thoughts clearly.

Now I think he is expressing his thoughts clearly - the problem is that his thoughts that are opaque nonsense.

I'll try and keep this as balanced as possible but....

...the article when it was published resembled a jumble of parts of Gordon Browns previous speeches since he came to office. Nothing obviously new, half contrite and half disingenuous, he doesn't seem to do much to give himself even a fighting chance of the electorate trusting him. I won't repeat here my description of the full text posted elsewhere, but as things have turned out they weren't that accurate anyway. The horse bolted about nine years ago and Labour have kept the stable door open just on the off chance Neddy might return. What a way to govern.

I cannot believe that Gordon Brown and his colleagues are not aware of public opinion, and ham-fisted communication like this does nothing whatsoever to help their image.
-----

Now what I would have preferred to say is...

...Gordon Brown has lost the plot, he was never elected, has performed badly and lurches from blunder to blunder when he should be shaping events and not simply reacting to them. He is unfit for office and clings to power with yet more pie crust promises. He knows and we know a General Election massacre is imminent. The game is up El Gordo, save face and spend more time with the family before the face becomes even more haggard and the hair greyer. Thanks in advance.

re: 70 Onlywayup

"With all due respect Nick, if one decodes what you said a year ago, Brown should have been on the back benches by March this year.
What was wrong in your analyses, Nick?"

I think Nick overestimated the intelligence and integrity of the labour members of Parliament.

They know that if they boot out Brown they'll need to call an election pretty much immediately, and they won't do that because they know they'll lose their own perks of the job because most of them would lose their seats.

They're all putting their own personal perks of the job ahead of the good of the country.

They can see the whole country getting in a worse situation day by day with every action/inaction that Brown takes, and they know that their leader is a mindless damaging idiot, but their selfish dedication to their own personal gravy train supercedes their willingness to do something to help their country.

Shame on them, and shame on all the people at the BBC who are allowing this car crash to continue without taking labour to task over the mind-blowing negligence going on.

Changing the topic.............

"If only the government in 1997 had been led by Tony Blair but the wider team staffed by the Conservative party.........."

Debate:




In 1997 - things did need to change. Investment in Schools, Hospitals etc did need to happen.

Tony got elected - the trouble was Brown blocked his reforms all the way - he built a war chest of cash for his own purposes. Brown held onto the cash for a long while - because he thought he could splurge it all and make himself look amazing once in charge.


Trouble is - Tony hung around too long for Gordon. Hence Labour never managed to deliver on its promises. All the cash was held up and then splurged in the later years.

Arguably Tony had the correct vision in 1997. Investment in people, infrastructure, schools and hospitals etc.

Tony's next big problem, however, was the Labour party. You only have to take one look at them and realise that 95% of his colleagues couldn't deliver their way out of a paper bag.

The Tories on the other hand, tainted by sleaze (of the few), were laden with people who know how to lead, manage and deliver.

Would it not have been ideal - for the UK - in 1997 to have Tony Blair as PM with the Conservative people in place to deliver the vision?

Am I arguing for some sort of quasi-American system here? Not sure - US politics normally bores me.......... but maybe in this country, we need to separate 'leadership and vision' away from those able and competent with 'delivery'.

Any thoughts darlings???

73 - Carrots................ tres amusing!

I've just been directed to:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1053592/Richard-Littlejohn-Spare-sob-story-Gordon-dont-care.html

Any half-honourable man reading this about himself - knowing that it was all true - would resign right away and hide away in shame.

#68 Grandantidote


Its no wonder to me that labour supporters are leaving these bloggs daily if your not careful Nick your going to end up with these bloggs being exclusively for Tory headbangers and a total waste of time.
It would be a good idea to start with, if there were a limited amount of posts removed by the moderaters before being dropped from the bloggs for a month the policy you have doesn't seem to be used big mistake.

Not a good idea at all. Rather like shooting the messenger. Will the labour supporters leave the voting polls too and allow them to be taken over exclusively by Tories?
At least these boards are relatively liberal, providing the House Rules are observed. If you want just 'politically correct' comments then I suggest you view and use HYS, which is moderated by the dumbest people imaginable.

re:68 grandantidote

Has it occurred to you that perhaps one of the reasons that there's virtually nobody on any blog supporting Brown is not because those supporters are boycotting blogs, or because everybody on all blogs have suddenly become tories, but that it could be because those Brown supporters have dwindled in number to such an extent that they no longer have a voice that's loud enough to be heard amongst the mass of protest that's being voiced against someone who's clearly negligent?

The Brown supporters aren't being shouted-down by tories. The Brown supporters are simply too few in number and no longer have any reasonable justification for their support.

There are no valid pro-Brown arguments; any that are offered are (quite rightly) simply laughed at because they have no basis in fact or logic.

#74. U9461192

This is weird, but sorry, pal.
Sent off my posting #84 before I read yours. Seems great minds think alike!

I think I've heard it all now , or perhaps I havn't ? Will there ever come a time when we , the hard working families of Great Britain are treated to plain , easy to understand statements that need no clarifying ? How long has GB got left ?

68 - Grandantidote

I do feel sorry for you guys at the moment.

Your loyal to your principles - and probably also to Labour.

Problem is - the political tide has turned. It is going to be noisy. It will, however, continue to get nosier until Labour has gone.

You can't just stick "your fingers in the internet's ears" and hope to block out the number of people who are anti Labour in blogs.

In 1997 - the internet was in its infancy - but the media of the moment was full of anti-Tory bile. 93.4% of all comments at the time used these well worn words in all commentary:

......"Thatcher" - "18 years" - "Sleaze"


In turn - these are probably the words that fill most comments in 2008:

...... "Labour" - "incompetence" - "value for money".


In both cases, you only need the 3 words to spell out the central message from the public to government. All other words are just padding.

Not a good idea at all. Rather like shooting the messenger. Will the labour supporters leave the voting polls too and allow them to be taken over exclusively by Tories?

That's the way it's looking isn't it? I'm almost feeling sorry for Gordon Brown. We hear that in private he's an intelligent, witty and engaging man. Apparently the same was true of John Major. What's changed? Well it really doesn't help if the media have turned against you. It may be the media driving the change in public mood or it may be them reflecting the change. I'm still not sure.

But there is no doubt that the mood has changed quite markedly since this time last year. It was all way-hey we've got rid of that flash phoney Blair, now we'll see some monster policies from the titanic mind of Gordon Brown rammed through by a parliamentary majority of 65. He's had long enough to think some up. And he is awfully clever.

And the Gordon Brown gave his conference speech. And Cameron gave his.

It was like the Doolittle raid.

Before it the Tories had known only defeat. After it they have known only victory.

Jeez. It was only a speech Gordon. Where are these magic ideas to transform the country. Suuuure we would have questioned why you kept them to yourself for ten years just to claim the glory for yourself but nontheless thanks for coming up with them at all.

And what does he come up with? Nothing. Nothing. Apart, that is, from lets lock people up for 42 (92?) days. Lets make compulsory ID cards for our citizens to carry about with them.

Eh?

I was kinda hoping they were Tony Blair's policies that would quietly be forgotten. Actually I think we all were. Along with the Iraq war. You know, wait a few months and declare it all safe and bring the boys home PLUS, ideally, send the yanks a bill for our mercenary force.

Nope.

One poor speech and he's utterly paralysed by indecision.

I want to feel sorry for him because nobody likes to see a man so hopelessly lost but this is what he wanted. Nobody held a gun to his head. The torment is all of his own making. The approbium heaped on him is just his past sins coming back to haunt him. Iraq, squandering of trillions, mad NHS computer ideas, ID card computers...

He really has nobody else to blame but himself.

Me? I blame Tony Blair for not sacking him years ago.

Today I blame the remaining Labour party for not at least persuading him to go to the polls and go down in a blaze of glory. To watch them all spinning and carrying on as though all is well is just sickening. There is no sign at all that this is going to get better. There is every sign it is going to get much worse.

If I were Labour I'd take my beating now and hope for another go in five years after landing the Tories with this scorched earth economy. I certainly wouldn't want to chance what it's all going to look like in 18 months time.

Grandantidote - CEH - Wilkinson - Eaton - and now Alex....


........... just saw the sound bite from Alistair Darling. Energy firms "must do more".....

Is this not a case of "trying to shut the door after the horse has bolted?"

The USA managed their finances so that they had trillions available to rescue their economy - propping up their ridiculously named mortgage companies.

We in the UK - well over here we had £18.39 and a packet of parma violets up our sleeves and ready to unleash to tempt first time buyers into a falling house market.


...... can you guys not see that the end has come? We need a new cycle of government. Fresh blood.

U9461192 - you have a hellish name to re-type......

...........but well said!

Poor old Gordon!
Yesterday's man, with yesterday's language--
"we must rise to conquer these challenges....blah, blah, blah"
Do we really have to suffer nearly two more years of this guff rhetoric?
Why can't he just be put out of his misery and give the country at least some chance to start a recovery plan.
Oh dearie me, Mrs Broon, will you tell him, please?
John C.

Things can only get ....... worse?

Election now, job done

90 Jonathan_Cook

Ref my own comment at 90..........

I forgot "Jimbrant". Sorry.


Au revoir

J.C.


P.S. Is it right that we can remember the "handle" of all the pro Gordon bloggers?

re: 95

They're all Nu-Lab ministers you know. I think grandantidote is John Prescott.

This government is now a real disgrace to democracy and all the people of this once great Union.

Resign in disgrace, all of you...now!

Grandantidote I'd hope you'd leave for a while as I though as Charles had left we could see what happens when the focus, The three punchbags with Gordon Browns face on them were removed. These arguments are in my experience a waste of energy. Charles revelled in this feeble criticism, He knew how to stay out of arguments. the fact that he just had to be nice he annoyed these people. It was quite funny really. he must have got bored though. Without this focus I think these blog comments will dwindle. And the poor quality of their 'arguments' and lack of original thought will shine through.They are Riding a bandwagon and nasty in my view. They trully have the leader they deserve They can comment all you like . I'm gone again.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

The labour supporters are NOT leaving or boycotting this blog. Does it not occur to the tiny minority of labour supporters left that actually, they are a dying species and that there really is so few of those supporters left? There are so few comments in support of labour because there are so few labour supporters left.

Oh, I live in a (former) staunchly labour constituency of Barrow in Furness. The Rt Hon. John Hutton MP's constituency. It is an industrial working class town in the North West. I have spoken to many working and middle class people, many of whom are deeply regretting ever voting labour and now are literally sickened and disgusted by the Labour party in Government.

And yes I am very very angry. I love my country and I am having to witness Labour defiling everything I hold dear.

I respect self reliance and labour reward sloth.

I respect marriage and labour supports and rewards separation.

I support honesty and the rule of law and the labour party turn the police into box-tickers who are rewarded for harassing the law-abiding because labour's political correctness and human rights law abuse frightens the police from tackling real crime.

I support national democracy, freedom and Liberty and the labour party have shredded the fabric of our democratic accountability by throwing us to the EU wolves without any say at all.

I support the judicial process and innocent till proven guilty before a jury. But labour have done more to remove our traditional freedoms and liberties than any party since the Magna Carta was signed at Runnymede. With detention without charge or trial, ID cards, DNA tests and storage for millions of innocents, the vile Paedophiles catalogue that is the Children's database etc etc. the labour party are assembling the totalitarian toolkit for spying on and tracking and rating everything, every communication, every journey and every interaction of every human in the UK. They will then rate and build a threat profile for everyone of us. This is a system that Hitler would have been orgasmic about.

The labour party are an affront to common decency, honesty, democracy, freedom, liberty, compassion, dignity and all the good and decent values I hold dear.

They deliberately lied us into a war on behalf of a religious extremist foreign power which is treasonous, they taxed and wasted billions on pet projects, gave away our sovereignty to the EU without our say again treasonous, and have turned our country into a basket case society filled with scroungers, ferral kids and foreign crime gangs. The labour party cannot even keep our most sensitive private data safe. the Government that is supposed to act as OUR public SERVANTS acting in our best interests on our behalf has, in fact, decided that they are the public's masters and they have become actively harmful to the well-being of the electorate.

That is why I am angry. The people who over-tax me are actively taking ever more of my money to use against my best interests. That is why I am angry.

Should I be grateful that this is the worst, most corrupt, incompetent, disgusting, most vile dumpage of scoundrels ever to darken the corridors of power?

Perhaps I should assist this bunch of crooks and visit Porton Down and volunteer for them to test their biological chemicals on me, only the most painful one's of course.

Labour, by their policies and incompetence and greed and deeds are actively hurting the people I love and destroying all of the positive values of this once great land....

And people wonder why I am angry?