Robinson's curse

So the back benchers are rebeling and who can blame them, Every time we hear Gordon Clown it's the same soundbites but never any action.

We know the public are becoming tired of being lied to and constantly having the wool pulled over there eyes but now even the Labour party is as it becomes clear their time with their heads in the trough are ending are becoming tired of it too.

Gordon Browns "listening" and "inclusive" style appropriately demonstrated by sacking her.

This may deter others from doing the same, but I think if someone with her record of govt loyalty has done this, then they are in grave trouble leadership wise.

Perhaps the first little fire has been lit.......

I expect Gordon will give a speech telling us all that these are difficult times, Labour is listening and is best placed to deal with the day-to-day things that matter to the people of Britain.

Expect lots more fiddling while Rome burns. Vince Cable said Brown was more like Mr Bean than Stalin, perhaps at the moment Nero would be more apt.

Please Gordon, dont resign, I want the majority at 200 not a miserly 150.

Dear, a critique of leadership by Patsy Hewitt? Things are bad, or someone has a sense of humour.

Labour are on the brink of vanishing forever.


Let us be strong bloggers, and help them on their way!

Do we care who leads the muppets into the next election?

Its the whole master plan thats failed not just Brown.

Tax, borrow, waste and squander worked fine in the boom, just doesnt do too well when you bust.


Remember:

New Labour will establish a new trust on tax with the British people.

Oh Nick,

This is getting sad. There were so many people who said in response you were just acting as a mouthpiece for Government spin (or spinning yourself.)

Just stop - you're embarrassing us now. There isn't a "peasants" revolt, it's simply that nothing has changed.

Gordon Brown is loathed by the country. Why would you think that because you say he isn't that the facts have changed ?

Just stop trying to make the news and start reporting it and everything will be fine.

As I said in response to your last blog, I thought that Harriet Harman's blatant play for the 'I'm a worker' vote at the TUC was a clear indicator that they were lining up for a leadership bid.

If they play the lipstick card, who knows what might happen? If they don't get rid of Brown they face a wipeout. Harman was actually quite good when she stood in at PMQs and she was ACTUALLY voted by open competition into her position - unlike Gordon Brown.

Incidentally, I don't go along with the idea, put about by Brownites trying to scare people off, that an election need be called if they vote in a new leader. Why should it? That cod has been swallowed whole by the media and needs regurgitating.

Comrade Brown certainly talks a good game but has categorically failed to deliver anything useful in his time in office.

The fundamental problem is simple, Ministers and MPs claim to "feel our pain" and "understand the people", yet when they claim more in expenses in three months than the average working person makes in a year how can they possibly understand us? They don't feel the effect of a 35% gas price hike, they don't feel the pain of £1.20/litre petrol and they don't feel the pain of ever-rising taxes.

When those who supposedly represent us have lost touch with us so completely it's hardly surprising that we hold them in such contempt.

With regards to the 10p tax fiasco and the "defensive" fix, what happens next year when everyones tax codes reset to there original levels and the lower paid end up being taxed more and it all blows up again, will the £5bn spent on the short fix be worth it for Gordon Clowns extra few month in office.

Finally the Labour party has woken up to the fact this man values him being PM over the welbeing of the country.

Don't you mean Sir Anthony Meyer - Sir Christopher was a former ambassador and chairman of the PCC I believe

Surely you mean Sir Anthony Meyer when referring to Mrs Thatchers stalking horse - not the rather excellent former Ambassador to the US, Sir Christopher

This is not the story you are looking for.

*waves hand*

Move along.

My political knowledge is somewhat antiquated - but if there is a certain amount of anti-Brown's in the Labour backbenches can we not have a vote of no confidence tabled? or will the Labour backbenchers refuse to risk their seats for the sake of a year or two's salary

Nick,

what I will say is that there are many more readers of your blog, and comments than some people care to admit..
If I was a labour MP, then I think that when they do read the comments they realise that the situation cannot continue as it is.

There is the stench of defeat, and they, labour MPs, are being told that the only reason why they don't 'overthrow' Gordon is because this time there must be a general election. They know what will happen at this election, whenever it is held. They will lose their seats because it is the only way to get rid of Gordon Brown.

However, I think that some of them still have principles and they understand that the general public consider that they are not having a legitimate leadership election is because they, the labour MPs want to continue to receive their salaries, and benefits. There seems no thought about the electorate. We are meant to just behave as though what is happening is in the countries best interests, that paternalistic Gordon will continue as a despot and see us through. Well he won't.

The economic situation is worsening every day, the situation with regard to our foreign policy is fatally holed below the water line. The foreign nationals know that Gordon is finished, he should be put out of his misery. Even President Mugabe understands how pathetic the Brown situation is, and look what is happening to him!

If the labour party conference is going to support Gordon then they are bigger fools than I thought. It may just as well be a Stalinist gathering of the party faithful with no consideration for us, the British people.

The labour party conference must show their disapproval of what is going on, the only way for Gordon is out. The labour party must be courageous and do the honourable thing, they must wield the knife, because if they don't they will never deserve to be in government ever again.

Until recently I've been very annoyed by the constant background noise that seems to be undermining the PMs position. I had a lot of trust that he was the right man for the job.

But in recent weeks he has been handed several opportunities on a plate in which he could improve the fortunes of both the country and that of the labour party.

The latest was the much awaited energy deal to improve those less well off. Yet again he has squandered a golden chance by offering almost nothing, whereas had he been up to the job he could have shown strength and gained credibility by forcing a windfall tax and intoduced tighter regulation (price caps) on the energy companies.

I am no longer surprised that his back benchers are getting fed up, as his lack of real action in helping those in desperate need shows an almost self-destructive course for the party.

As a long time (true) Labour supporter I am now convinced that he needs to be replaced in order to protect the party, and more importantly the country, even if it means losing the next election.

14 Welcome back Charles E H

I posted this before reading your contribution, I saw the name and was immediately intrigued.

Will Siobhain McDonagh be the straw that breaks the camels back?

Just a week now until Conference, going to be an interesting seven days wouldn't you think, that's a long time in politics.

Crash Gordon has failed the nation. He hasn't been prudent and he hasn't delivered his much vaunted economic stability. That is plain to see. New Labour was a contrick of immense proportions.

The country faces a crises not seen for 60 years and what do we get............an aneamic Government response because the've blown the lot on waste and quangos and can't afford to stimulate the economy without going once again cap in hand to the IMF!

The country needs radical new ideas and just a sense that someone has an answer and the leadership ability to drive a well thought out strategy through.

Oh how I envy the Americans right now on the verge of getting a Margaret Thatcher style politician to "LEAD" their country in just a few weeks time. Three cheers for Sarah Palin!

Labour are too timid to remove the lumbering oaf so we'll all have to suffer for many more wretched months under this spineless and rudderless Administration.

I predict unless the Labour Party finds the guts to get a leadership election underway soon the normally sedate British Public will start to take to the streets, Poll Tax style, in an attempt at a very British coup! It is seriously coming to that!

Find the guts please Labour MP's and do what is right for this country, not your party or even your own pockets and pensions!

CEH and others
Please take to read time to read this. Yet another GB headline grab with no substance whatsoever?

https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7612852.stm

I would love to hear the views of Labour supporters here because by the looks what was promised won't be delivered.

Boredom Frown's problems are:
- He is too cautious
- he has carried on with Bliar's discredited agenda
- he is indecisive
- he is a poor communicator
- he is dour

QED a new leader PM would need to be bold, carve out a new agenda (and quickly), make clear decisions, be good on the 'telly' and the stump, be 'one of us' and have a sense of humour, not his/her own self importance.

With a new agenda it would have to be radical and start working quick to engender a General Election in six months. PMs have been replaced before in mid term (1990, 1976, 1963 and 1957) without an electon because we elect governments not Presidents in this country: but doing it a second time would push the patience of the country without a 'quick' election.

Ironically people want a more 'left wing' agenda - such as the windfall tax. Voting Tory won't acheive this: Cameron is even against the modest package to help save people's homes.

Sorry Nick but when I saw 'has the curse of Robinson struck' my first reaction was to think of Anne Robinson and the Weakest Link. 'Well Gordon you didn't do well in that round did you. Why do you think somebody else should go when your score was so low. You are the weakest link. Goodbye.

#14

Charles, this isn't the story? Well, after the latest news that the fuel crisis plan/deal is not what the Prime Minister said it would be, then we definitely need something done at the top.

How can the Prime Minister state one thing, only for it to be "clarified" by an energy company?

This man is in charge of the Government. Has he not heard of attention to detail?

It appears that Labour is now reacting - and badly - to events rather than being pro-active.

This is poor Government in action.

How many pensioners were hoping for a good deal on their energy only for it to be blown up in their faces.

I think Gordon Brown is going to be replaced. Whoever replaces him won't stop the election being lost, but at least they might be able to reduce the damage.

Neil- there is no secret know,its out in the open....the Blairites have been plotting from day one....the energy companies have a fear of the trade unions...they also want to discredit GB.......Time will tell all......


Arrrrrg, Nulab.............................

This sacking of a junior whip who dared to request a nomination form for a leadership election is showing Gordon Brown as a real coward and a bully - something which I never thought I would say about the Prime Minister. The Tories must be beside themselves with glee and cracking open the Brut and the Bollinger!

In fairness I think Gordons "steady as she goes policy" is probably the best thing for the economy at the moment.

The fact that he isnt listening to his own party makes him look even more out of touch. Both he and the Labour party are doomed.

Gordon , get back out there. We want change, social change, where is your energy policy ? What is the coherent plan to reduce carbon emissions. Get on with the job !!

Remember people though Brown may look out of touch and be slow to bring in new policies; dont forget who the tories are and who they will look after if they get back into number 10 !!!!

24 derekbarker

Tenuous, too tenuous for words.

I'll say again, a headlining grabbing splash, analyse the details and the whole announcement is found seriously, seriously wanting. Your words are tenuous, Brown's actions are cynical. He is a disgraceful politician!!

I hope this will teach you to avoid falling for absurd Labour spin.

Given those MPs and party members lower down the food chain will have lower chances of grabbing a nice money spinning job, a seat in the Lords or a very comfortable consultancy role than the cabinet members and more prominent party members, they're the ones with the most to lose.

Hence they're the ones most likely to wield the knife in self-interest - after all, voters might just keep their MP if they've got shoehorning Brown out of office on their CV as opposed to backing him.

So yes, expect the killing blow from someone other than the obvious. Although the obvious might be pulling some strings in the backdrop, dangling a prominent future role before the likes of McDonagh in exchange for taking a fall now

@26, nande2000uk

I very much remember who the Tories are - the ones who pulled us out the last mess Labour got us in, provided us working class with the ability to buy our council houses and get on the property market and who handed five years of consecutive growth to the Labour party, so Brown could continue that growth for another 10.

In terms of weasel scumminess Labour quite easily match the Tories - or any other party for that matter - the NHS postcode lottery, and the likes of PFI and the compromising of the NAO (the last started by the Tories, and turned into grand larceny by Labour).

They're all a bunch of corrupt, snouts-in-trough slimy swine, and the sooner the party groupies get that through their skulls the sooner we might get a decent political system.

#27

Nobody accepted this propsal on the energy point.......conference.. along with the trade unions would have demanded more be done.....look the french people forced their government to cap their energy bills...I'm sure the will and way is there to bring these companies into line...look are you suggesting that there is no Blairite agenda against GB.....

Gordon Brown has had 12 months to prove to the British Public that he had the ability to be a reasonable Prime Minister after being percieved to be a good Chancellor...........I mean PERCIEVED..not actually..........but in politics it's perception....real or imaginary which is most important.

Anyway, it's a bit like making the Finance Director of a company the Chief Executive.........sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't. In this case it hasn't simply because the man doesn't have a vision or a goal and therefore he cannot develop a stratgegy nor lead that strategy. He can only flounder ad infinitum!

So the Board members (aka Cabinet) must start the process of replacing him so that the Shareholders (Labourt Party member and MP's) get a return (or get returned ....at an election) on their investment by providing their customers ( the electorate) with what they want!

Failure to connect with and provide the customer with what they need and want results in bankrupsy and extinction as the competition pick up those customers.

With 600 days to go to the next election there isn't time to chnage direction at the top and develop and new direction............so the best Labour can hope is that there are enough of them left after the massacre to provide a meaningful and re-constructed opposition..........

Britain’s had two world class Gordon’s
The first Gordon fought at Khartoum
The second alas is devoid of all class
He is Gordon the Labour Buffoon

As PM he is no longer fit
We are praying to god he will quit
But whatever we say he wont go away
He has dropped Britain right in the s**t

If Crash Gordon has continue with Ken Clarke's tax and spend policies beyond the first 2 years where would we all be by now?

Much better off with more money in our pockets and the country really in a good state to weather the economic crisis.

It's time to go back to responsible tax and spend and borrowing policies.

#31 derekbarker


Another golden opportunity for Gordon Brown blown. Hilary Benn, who I often thought was a different breed, ie a politician with conviction, is now sucked into
Brown's murky world.

The agenda emerging now, is the agenda to be expected. Blairite, or more than likely self preservationist, the only surprise is the length of time.

Well you got that well and truly wrong mate. Might be embarassing if it wasn't pretty typical of the stuff that the compulsory tax funded BBC puts out.

Mason as an ECONOMICS editor - pah!!!!!

I think people are forgetting Tony Blairs role in the country sinking into oblivion.

Blair never cared one iota for the country's welfare,or anyone but himself. He was a power mad ,ego driven, attention seeking and just wanted to strut around on the world stage. He allowed Brown to control the purse strings and introduce 'stealth socialism'. Brown squandered vast sums of money hiring outreach co-ordinaters and 1million other useless public sector workers and proping up Labours client state in the most cynical way. The one section of public servants who were starved of cash was the military who ironically were asked to do more than ever by strutting Blair.
Brown of-course hates the military which links to most of the Labour party and their CND membership.
Historians will write about Brown as the worst Chancellor in history!

Labour are going to get wiped out! Cant wait!

labour needs to move quick and find a john major candidate. with the economy in dire straits, they need someone that can say to the public "better vote for the devil you know". then they can get reelected with a tiny majority and really pi55 us all off for another 5 years.

Robinson's curse?
Or perhaps the failure of a top BBC political journalist to know what's going on on in the Labour Party.
Must try harder!

Do MPs never learn? Rather than have their constituents interests in mind they are intoxicated by the Westminster game and reading the list of Blairite names it's not hard to see this is partly a case of sour grapes. There is no magic bullet to get us out of the current economic challenges. The best chance for the country and for the Labour party in the short time before the next election is to keep calm with a serious dose of loyalty for the Blairites. If they can't keep their nerve they are looking at a lot of unedifying bloodletting and a slow demise in the eyes of the public. How do they expect Brown to govern convincingly if he has to spend so much time watching his back. That's unless some of them actually want "another 13 years of Tory misrule".

Gordon Brown played pork Barrel Politcs with 42 days, I dont see anything wrong with 42 days as long as it can be justified.

If king james the 5th managed to run england(and scotland) with a maximum of 24 hours imprisonment at a time of catholic rebellions and no technolgie , im sure that in this CCTV state we could survive with 28 days,


We survived the IRA bombing and kept our liberities intact.

Mr.Brown is too powerful and his powers should be cut

The man (Brown) is a plonker. He is a machiavellian schemer bereft of the attributes needed to lead a dog, let alone the country. The sooner the lily-livered sycophants that call themselves the Parliamentary Labour Party step up to the plate and oust their dead duck of a boss, the better. It is verging on criminal that our nation is virtually paralysed whilst a miniscule group of people thrash about trying to figure out how to save their skins. It never ceases to amaze me how placid can be the British people when it comes to this sort of thing. Let's take to the streets and send a message to these parasites that we want to be governed not bystanders in their pathetic little party political contortions.

I think it is very poor when a party is prepared to undermine their leader, to the extent that the Labour party has undermined Gordon Brown. This latest intervention from a backbencher and last week by Charles Clarke completely undermines the PM, the government, the Labour Party and ultimately the country -- our politics and democracy suffer. The current 'story' is all about Brown and his leadership when we should be concentrating on the problems we face. And I happen to think Brown is just as capable as anyone to solve the current problems or get us through these tough economic times.

One current problem is that of climate change and energy supply. The energy saving measures GB announced yesterday were a creative solution to save energy, and to save people some money. Rather than giving money away to people (which they may end up spending on anything they liked, rather than their energy bills), encouraging them to save energy and save money is a great idea -- and it helps with climate change.

Many people suggested levying a windfall tax on the energy companies but in the long run this may be counter-productive since this may dissuade other companies to invest in the UK. Taxing companies (or people for that matter) retrospectively seems unfair. However it does seem unfair to consumers that prices have risen so much in the past few months and these companies have made large profits. So going forward the government should consider capping prices or making the energy companies pay for more energy saving measures, or make them invest in renewables or cleaner energy production.

Labour's problem is that it's not just Gordon Brown that looks incompetant - it's the whole labour government, even looking back to Tony Blair's last few years. So changing the leader won't really help.

Everything they do seems to be rushed, not thought through and to be unworkable.

Why is this? - My own view is that Tony Blair politicised the Civil Service which was a huge mistake. I think the mandarins (the people who know what is workable and what is not) have now given up trying to make sense of all the new policy initiatives and are standing back and saying if ministers really want to do all these ridiculous things, who are we to stop them.

"curse of Robinson"....well, not really. Just incompetent reporting. The world and his dog can see that both the country and the Labour Party have come to the conclusion that Brown is not up to the job. It's just a shame that the BBC's 'top' political correspondent can't see that.

0/10 on this one Nick.

#43 4fooey

Wow! You've adopted the OECD neo-liberal philosophy hook, line and sinker.

While all the major parties subscribe to this, there's little difference between them.

I'm amazed by the naievity of so many posters imagining there will be any significant difference between New Labour and the Tories.

One (OECD) pod - 2 peas.

#42 markanash

Well said that man. Mind if I copy and paste your words into every blog on here.

Spot on!!

Siobhain, your a star.
With all the heavyweights in your party it was you that dared to speak up.
The rest of the party should be ashamed, the country is going through hard times with no help from this government.
The fiasco over 42 days detention, the lying over the vote on the treaty, stealth taxes, green taxes, any pleasure we have taxed to the hilt and banned. Data lost, ID cards threatened, and on and on.
I am heart sick at what has happened to this once great country.
We need a government that is as proud of our country as we are.
Not GB. or the Labour Party.

46. oldnat

Well they might just reintroduce prudence.

"curse of Robinson"....well, not really. Just incompetent reporting. " JGScotland

Yup - that just about sums it up. I recall the last time I commented here was when Robinson got it completely wrong about David Davies, and then tried to get out of it by predicting all possible scenarios simultaneously.

Why are we forced to pay for this rubbish?

JESUS SAVES - even he would admit defeat with El Gordo

I suppose it is typical politics, but I don't remember Gordon Brown ever undermining the Blair leadership. Rather I think it is likely he provided the wherewithall for it to succeed.
Why then, do Blairites constantly attempt to undermine Gordon Brown?
New Labour seems to have a death wish at the moment. Are they hoping to get out of office soon, so they don't have to deal with the economic downturn?
I can't see any other sensible reason for Siobhain McDonagh to have said what she has said.
And who will be the next person to attempt to "punish" Gordon Brown for not wasting our money and time by holding a general election, when he took office... much later in the day (thanks to Blair) than we expected. I wish I knew at least one person who has completed one of the recent opinion polls, because they don't reflect the opinions of anyone I talk to. Obviously we are in the wrong age group and income bracket to be asked for our opinions. Thank goodness we can make them known on a newslog!

#43 4fooey

Hello anyone home?

#52 newtactic

Another amnesiac, plenty of them here tonight

14 Charles E Hardwidge

May the force be with you.

Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering.

#49 carrots

They might well apply prudence again, but when the Tories come under electoral threat, in due course, I wouldn't be surprised to see Tory Prudence disappear as well.

My point was that if you look more widely across the members of the OECD, then the fierce dichotomy that is expressed here becomes less meaningful.

In every OECD country, the parties position themselves as if there is a meaningful difference between them, when in reality they are all signed up to the same agenda.

# 55 dhwilkinson

May the force be with anyone other than Gordon Brown.

Gordon Brown leads to anger, anger leads to resentment, resentment leads to a change of government.

Change of government is a direct result of systematic failure, poor policies and failure to engage with an electorate willing to trust but let down and lied to time after time after time.

#52 "I don't remember GB ever undermining TB"

Unfortunately for GB, most of the people who did the dirty work for him were still waiting for payback time, when everything went pearshaped.

Watch them, not some formerly-assistant-teamaker in the whip's office.

#42 markanash.

Spot on 100%. Post of the month easy.

Nick Robinson is a very gullible blogger. He thinks that he gives an objective view but his information clearly comes from spin doctors from both sides.

For a few weeks he has been maintaining a clearly deluded line that the Labour party is now at ease with Brown. Suddenly when a junior whip is sacked then it makes a big story.

While Brown's spin doctors' motives are clear, it seems that the anti-Brown camp are also spinning Nick Robinson to give extra surprise effect.

You would think a political editor wouldn't fall so easily for a clearly orchestrated campaign and it seems with his Michael Fish comments, Nick realises he's been had.

It must be more readily available than I am equipped to find, but what was Siobhan Macdonagh's majority in 2005? She must be convinced that her seat is untenable under the present leadership. She's like the lookout on the Titanic screaming "Iceberg!" for all she's worth, but getting short shrift from the complacent, self-absorbed, misguided captain. We want unstable government, though. The harm that Thatcher and Blair did was due to their majorities, which gave one a mandate for union-busting and the other a mandate for war.

So Gordo isn't the sexiest thing ever to live.. I hardly think that makes him the Prince of Darkness. Unless you believe the media, of course. Anyone regretting ousting Tony yet?
The whips' job is to keep the party in line and in this case the MP in question was not towing the party line. Firing her may have done more damage than good on this occasion but this just shows how frightful Team Gordo's media management really is (and how hungry for Gordo's blood the media really are).
Is no one else bored of the 'he-said-she-said' nonsense that characterizes contemporary politics? All anyone does is moan! Can no one rally behind some progressive policy making for the betterment of everyone? Erm-no..
I swear, if the upper-echelons of Gov't and the Opposition spent half as much time working on policy as they did sticking the knife in we would be living in a Utopia by now. Thankfully we have the media sharpening away to save us from this eventuality. (Not you of course Nick, we love you). But whose agenda are we really following here?
Long live democracy........

Have I actually read "brushed past Mr Cameron and myself"?

Come on, as a journalist it should surely be "brushed past Mr Cameron and me" ??

blogward (#61) :
McDonagh's majority was 12560 or 31.5% - she got 22489 versus 9929 for the Tory.

https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/vote2005/flash_map/html/map05.stm

diplomacyrules (#62)
If politics was about sexiness, then Kylie's backside would be made President For Life. The PM's problem is that it ultimately comes down to your ability to do your job - and the Minogue posterior has shown more economic competence than Gordon in the last 7 years or so.

I posted this before reading your contribution, I saw the name and was immediately intrigued.

May the force be with you.

Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering.

Charles E

"This is not the story you are looking for.

*waves hand*

Move along."

I absolutely agree.

I don't give a damn about the folk rushing about rearranging the deckchairs, wondering whether they should mutiny. I do care about the course the captain is steering.

Who in their right mind would believe that the combined efforts of government (assuming that enough of the cabinet is kept in the loop to call this a "government" decision) - who would come up with such a weak approach to helping folk through an "energy crisis"?

It's no surprise that a Brown statement has to be "clarified" within hours. Brown, Balls and Blair ripped the last remnants of honesty from the heart of government.

The story is that Brown has come up with GBP300Mil for 3 years (not even a rounding error) to offer minimal impact on the nations' home insulation. Then he couldn't even tell it straight.

Maybe he's trying to stimulate the small businesses? I'd guess that a lot of people currently offering tarmac and roofing "solutions" will suddenly appear as cavity wall "specialists"!

How long can this go on?

Nu(Improved)Labour is sinking fast and the '97 landslide will be passed with everyday GB clings to power.

How much fun can the 'Pimms and Bud' set have in the next few months with GB locked in his bunker refusing to go? (Oh to be a fly on the wall)

I have said this before and I will always say this....

May we all live in interesting times!

But I still think your original article still holds water, Nick.

Your original assumption was correct, ie that they'd never find 71 labour MPs who'd have the integrity to put their country ahead of their own personal perks.

So there will never be a leadership election no matter how angry a handful of backbenchers become.

They all know they'll never reach the 71 figure so most of them are just resigned to collecting their massive pensions/perks until the last possible minute in 2010.

There's no way more than 71 will risk their own perks by doing something that'll make a general election more likely to be forced; there just aren't that many labour MPs who have integrity, and all the labour party knows it (as do the rest of the country).

Am I being over-imaginative or are persons or persons unknown leaving minor tripwires around for Brown, e.g. pensioners and the heating help? Just a minor trip, but one in a series.

The energy policy reveals the hand of arrogant big business and misunderstanding of the feral media. If folks take their eyes off the beautiful lady and watch the magician's hands they'll get a better clue. So, yes. I would suppose the government is trying to stimulate the minds of small business and communities.

Britain's broken economic fundamentals are the root of problems, which is why ignoring the external problem and focusing on internal solutions is key to success. If folks want arguing and negativity, that's what they'll get as effort follows focus. So, if you want a better outcome switch to a better focus.

Too many folks are wrong headed and want to impress their friends, so the blog comments and national economy skitter along the bottom. This is madness but in spite of reality delivering a clear signal nobody will let go and capital continues to shrink: the more people cling the more the sand runs between their fingers.

To succeed, you must unlearn failure.

Watch this space Mr Fish !

'To succeed, you must unlearn failure.'
- No,

To succeed you must learn FROM your failures and so learn NOT to do them again, or if you don't, you will do them again.

'focusing on internal solutions is key to success'.
- Yes, get rid of Gordon!

Easy in'it.

tobytrip, your comment suggests you're not paying attention and full of yourself. All you've done is suck my comments dry and shove your ego in my face. This is the dark side of the typical Anglo-Saxon approach, and why Britain is failing.

You want the whole cake and that makes discussion impossible. I've got stuff to be getting on with and, I expect, Gordon Brown's in a similar position. When we're done we'll both have something to talk about while you'll just have talk about nothing.

"Winning" is for losers. Neither Osborne or Cameron get this, which is why they and their fanbois are clinging to old politics in a changing world. They represent the problem when they could've been part of the solution: there are none so damned as those who damn themselves.

This so called government is dire, it gets worse by the day. These Nu-Laba-PF people keep on spinning "it's the economy". It is up to a point but more importantly it is the incompetence of the government as a whole, the political correctness and the failure to deal with the much more long term and pressing problems that beset the nation.
These concerns are obvious to everyone, including the government but they lack the will or political courage to deal with these great issues. This is what makes the population so angry, not Gordon Brown per se. He is just the lightning conductor, poor man.
It just has to be faced, this administration is not up to the job.

Dear Nick

You might be interested to read the exchange of letters I have had with Ray Collins, the new General Secretary about the Leadership election/nomination rules at:

https://www.savethelabourparty.org

Nomination papers were issued routinely not just to Labour MPs prior to 1997, but other stakeholders as set out in Rule 4.2.B.iii However, as you will see from my latest letter to the GS, the other stakeholders have a right to make nominations, according to the expert advice we sought.

As I blogged earlier, I see this not as an obligation on the Leader to reapply for his/her job, but a sort of routine 'performance management' process enabling members of a voluntary association (and legally that is what the Labour Party is) express a view about the Party Leadership's performance.

The Labour Party today would be better served by a Leader who acknowledged the importance of accountability, rather than appearing to go to any length to avoid the subject. Most people in this country are expected to account for themselves in many difference capacity. It's time for our Leaders to set a good example and so help Labour win back electoral support.

I'm sure, that with the scorn they heap upon U.S politicians, especially Republicans, the NU Labour females would never admit it, but is it possible Palin has motivated them to action? Another woman, Joan Ryan is rebelling against the leadership of the Great Gordon.

#76 Phoenixarisen

I mentioned trickles and streams elsewhere. Only two so far, with luck a few more will stick their heads above the parapet. With a little more luck, these dissenting voices will be joined by others and the writing that has been on the wall for sometime for Gordon Brown will become clearer. Will he have the courage to read and understand the message? Doubt it!

Dearest Charlie,

"Winning" is for losers.
- Yes, I can see your logic but how long can this statement be true before common sense (that thing MP's used to have) comes back into fashion.

I do not support Nu(Improved)Labour, Useless Tories or Drip, Drip Labourals or parties that you, and I, might call 'extreme'.

However I do support good government which this shambles is not.

I work for a living and want my tax spent with the same professionalism that I live my life by.

Labour is failing not me, nor anyone else who wishes to express an onion that is different from others.

Live long and prosper.

#77 Ilicipolero

I mentioned trickles and streams elsewhere.

Good morning,

Agree with you, but with this thick one, we need a ruddy tidal wave!

The Blairites simply hate Brown more than they want to be involved in implementing a progressive agenda for the country.
Nothing is being achieved by this except perhaps makinga Conservative victory at the next election more likely.
McDonagh and Ryan are nobodies.
As for Patricia Hewitt, she remains perhaps one of the most patronising and irritating ministers I can remember. I also note that the "Progress" magazine article is strong on critique and devoid of constructive alternative. This spectacular lack of substance reminds of Patricia Hewitt's entire career.

there are none so damned as those who damn themselves.

Quite so. Labour Manifesto 1997:

Spending and tax: new Labour's approach

The myth that the solution to every problem is increased spending has been comprehensively dispelled under the Conservatives. Spending has risen. But more spending has brought neither greater fairness nor less poverty. Quite the reverse - our society is more divided than it has been for generations. The level of public spending is no longer the best measure of the effectiveness of government action in the public interest. It is what money is actually spent on that counts more than how much money is spent.

The national debt has doubled under John Major. The public finances remain weak. A new Labour government will give immediate high priority to seeing how public money can be better used.

New Labour will be wise spenders, not big spenders.

Damned they are then.

Good.

Nick,

this could be 'very interesting' and it is for this reason.

All labour MPs should be sent a blank nomination form. That means that they can then submit any name they like, even Gordon Brown if they so wish.

Now then, let's assume that all nominations, together with the nominator's name are then made available to the public through a web site.

If you send in a form with somebody else's name, other than Gordon's then we can see that that MP wants a change. If you send in a form with Gordon's name then you are seen and proven to accept the current appalling situation.

However, if you don't send back a form, then you are just plain gutless, but we will know that you want change but either don't know who to nominate, or don't want to be seen as disloyal.

But we will know because otherwise you would nominate Gordon, but be afraid of the fact that when labour collapses you remained loyal to a PM who led the labour party to total ignominious defeat.

Wonderful.

Damn! That Chuck E Hogwash didn't stay dead for long.

Back to the drawing board.......

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

Damn! That Chuck E Hogwash didn't stay dead for long.

Neither did grandantidote. It seems dhwilkinson is the only one who fell for it.

re: 75 PeterGKenyon

A laudable aim I think, but I don't think you'll have much luck. Brown's determined to avoid any election or any appraisal that he can.

When your PM wasn't even elected by his fellow MPs let alone the country, you must know that his idea of democracy is simply:

"I'll let you have a vote, but only if I'm the only candidate."

He belongs to the "I'm always right, so you don't need a vote" school of thought.

56. oldnat

Well you are right of course, its always a case of selecting the best of a pretty poor bunch.

Do you think giving the electorate the choice between a Wilson or a Thatcher tyle government would help.

I hope we are past that point in our evolution.

83. MaxSceptic

mmmm. the long march seems to have been cut short.

85:
Thankfully the object of their of affection will very soon be a dead duck so it matters little that they are still on here.

What I'm curious to know Nick is if Labour were to be defeated in the next general election who is going to defeat them will it be the libdems,Ukip or heaven forbid the BNP.
So who will it be Nick, did I hear some one in the distance shout.
" the Conservatives"
Well I do seem to recall that there was a conservative party, a pretty unsavoury bunch they were too but we haven't heard from them for ages.
I thought that they had all died of embarrassment when David Davis went bananas and wasted one hundred and eighty thousand pounds of his constituents money on his ego.
He's disapeared and it seems that he's taken the Tories with him.
So I ask again Nick who's going to defeat them and who's going to run the coumtry afterwards.
My bets on the BNP not because I like them but in view of the unpleasant rheteric we are hearing here, it seems that they would be the best party to carry out the disruptive ideas of all that are still Tories on here.

85 power_to_the_pple

Fell for what?

This stilleteo uprising as the BBC! put it. Is an irrelevance. I don't have to answer for the internal politics of a political party. Don't bother to engage me in one of your witty conversations. As at the moment, I would rather eat wasps.

Maxsceptic I'm very sorry to here you earn so much money. You have my sympathies. wierd you can't find anything better to do than Bait and moan on the internet. I suppose as Charles E Hardwidge might say. Money is not the answer to happiness clearly so in your case.
Yes I have still flicking through your drivel.

re: 89

Aye misswaldorf, you're right, it's only a matter of time now...

re: 91 wilky

Grandantidote I'd hope you'd leave for a while as I though as Charles had left we could see what happens when the focus, The three punchbags with Gordon Browns face on them were removed.

Remember this?

All three of you can't keep away--- you long to read the swathes of anti-Labour comments on here because deep down you know they're true. You just can't bear to admit to yourselves that you've been mistaken all along.

All three of you can't keep away? I haven't posted on the last few topics and have used up the few shots I'm allowing myself on this one.

I notice Nick's trying it on again in his next topic. Figured so, but I've got real stuff to get on with and feeding Nick just creates more trouble.

I might take the whole of next week off. Heck, make it a month. I might return for Gordon Brown's keynote but that's all I've got planned.

93 ppl It was my plan to stay away but after only one day there came a revival several labour supporter came back on blog and more interestingly I saw a few little wavers in some of your tory supporters.
I didn't see much dispute to my long awaited list of Labour achievements, perhaps just perhaps it brought one or two of you back into the real world if only momentarily.
No my friend I know that you spend much of your time seriously confused but dont be confused by this, it wasn't the comments of you and your fellow miscreants that inspired any of us to return it was the fact that we had some people of genuine wit
and integrity return to confront you.

Nick, you mention Harold Wilson's "pound in your pocket" speech following devaluation of Sterling in 1967.

This was a blatant example of Labour spin! Devaluing the pound by more than 14% might have been unavoidable, but to pretend it had no effect on the pound in your pocket was laughable even then.

It's worth noting that even after devaluation, the pound was still worth $2.40. Ah, happy days!

re: 95

it was the fact that we had some people of genuine wit
and integrity return to confront you.

There aren't any red flag wavers on here who fit that description. The pro-Labour brigade is a raggedy handful of deluded, incoherent bloggers such as yourself who refuse to see the awful damage perpetuated by a thieving, warmongering government that thinks it has the right to steal from those who earn to give away to those who don't.

The Labour party is the enemy of the people. Have faith fellow bloggers! Nu-Labour will fall!

dhwilkinson @91 wrote:

"wierd you can't find anything better to do than Bait and moan on the internet.

Why? Can't I have a hobby?

I can't shoot Moose in England so I go for the next best thing.

(Oh yes - and I am very happy).

There's a few carrots in here but not enough to tempt me back to routine posting. Nick's still trying it on and the usual suspects are still performing at (looks at clock) 14:49. I can post nothing forever. Really, it's quite easy.

@ 7

Labour have done just that!
We trust we will be taxed at every opportunity :0)